back to indexBCC 2018 Retreat - Q & A Session
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So if-- make sure you're at the right place, okay? 00:00:12.720 |
Let me start and then we're going to try to finish 00:00:18.080 |
So 5-- about 4.25 is when we're going to end. 00:00:21.840 |
Give about five minutes to kind of move around 00:00:27.520 |
And then if you have specific questions that you want to ask 00:00:31.360 |
after the second session or maybe in between the session, 00:00:40.840 |
If you have something very specific you want to ask 00:00:43.400 |
that's more kind of personal rather than do it 00:00:48.520 |
All right, let me pray first and then we'll get started. 00:00:53.040 |
Heavenly Father, we thank you for the retreat. 00:00:55.600 |
We thank you for the opportunity for us to get together 00:00:59.120 |
and take some time answering some of the questions 00:01:05.440 |
and any kind of questions or misunderstandings 00:01:23.440 |
Okay, so as I mentioned, I'm gonna try to stay away 00:01:28.440 |
from subjects that are only gonna be pertaining 00:01:32.840 |
I'm gonna try to focus on the questions that came in 00:01:35.920 |
that I think is gonna be beneficial for everyone, okay? 00:01:38.680 |
So the first question was about our denomination. 00:01:42.600 |
If you didn't know, we are Southern Baptist affiliated. 00:01:59.840 |
but I became a Baptist after I became a pastor. 00:02:03.120 |
And it was deliberate because I was studying scripture 00:02:10.800 |
Then after I became a pastor, I got baptized. 00:02:13.640 |
And then so when we first came out as a church, 00:02:18.560 |
It was just, we just happened to be Irvine Baptist. 00:02:25.360 |
It was just, it just happened to be in a Baptist church. 00:02:28.120 |
When we came out, we weren't really specifically attached 00:02:35.280 |
the Southern Baptist in our area in Orange County, 00:02:37.600 |
they're very heavily influenced by Saddleback. 00:02:40.680 |
And so the way Saddleback does ministry, philosophy, 00:02:43.440 |
their theology, I felt like we weren't on the same page. 00:02:59.800 |
And they asked me to come and help oversee this. 00:03:02.400 |
And I met the director of the Southern Baptist 00:03:06.200 |
And some of you guys may know Dr. Michael Prout. 00:03:16.640 |
theologically, ministry, philosophy-wise, teaching. 00:03:19.600 |
And because of him, we started getting more involved. 00:03:22.840 |
And so the first thing I did is I went to India with him. 00:03:35.160 |
And I came back, seeing what was happening over there, 00:03:38.320 |
and then that's how we got involved with India. 00:03:40.440 |
And so since then, our involvement with the Southern Baptist 00:03:46.480 |
but he's always trying to get our church more involved 00:03:55.200 |
So whenever he sees somebody who's like-minded, 00:03:58.120 |
he usually calls me and asks me to kind of mentor 00:04:03.200 |
So there was a church down in Corona Del Mar, 00:04:09.200 |
So Alex went and helped with the worship of that church. 00:04:12.760 |
And so he used to be a professor at Masters at Southern, 00:04:16.360 |
at Talbot, and so he's comes highly credentialed, 00:04:19.920 |
and he wrote commentaries for Baker Commentary 00:04:25.480 |
so we try to help him with the church planting. 00:04:30.280 |
that's how I was involved with the denomination. 00:04:35.960 |
the way that they are organized is local church autonomy. 00:04:39.000 |
So it's not like a typical Presbyterian church 00:04:48.080 |
So all the other churches are under this denominational head 00:05:00.960 |
So it's the closest thing to being non-denominational. 00:05:09.920 |
and then we kind of collectively do things together, 00:05:19.320 |
or we've been kind of involved with the local chapter 00:05:21.360 |
of the Southern Baptist because of Dr. Proud, 00:05:29.960 |
to our denomination locally to help like-minded churches 00:05:34.800 |
Okay, so even if they're not connected with us, 00:05:37.840 |
If there's any kind of like emergency relief, 00:05:47.480 |
we usually take offering or take a part of our finances 00:05:53.600 |
So at least we know that they're Christians who, 00:05:59.800 |
they're in like-minded context in our denomination. 00:06:04.080 |
And so Southern Baptist has a very elaborate program 00:06:09.560 |
So they will go and find a Baptist church in that area 00:06:17.440 |
I mean, Southern Baptist is the largest denomination 00:06:20.840 |
It's also the largest mission sending group in the world. 00:06:24.360 |
So it's larger than any other mission organization worldwide. 00:06:29.360 |
Most people don't know because it's denominational. 00:06:40.880 |
do you know somebody there, and they'll connect us. 00:06:43.520 |
So as you know, Harry is preparing to go out to China. 00:06:53.500 |
who's gonna walk us through the town and show us, 00:06:55.880 |
this is what's going on, these are the needs. 00:06:57.840 |
And so Harry is not gonna be underneath that umbrella, 00:07:06.480 |
other missionaries who've kind of worked in that area 00:07:10.920 |
So that's our involvement with the Southern Baptist, 00:07:17.440 |
he's gonna be completely under the Southern Baptist, 00:07:22.760 |
and under their accountability and under their support. 00:07:25.920 |
So up to now, the way that we've been doing missions 00:07:28.600 |
is we were raising up, we were raising up our missionaries 00:07:35.040 |
But we realized through the last four or five years 00:07:39.880 |
it's too hard for us to support them from here, 00:07:51.300 |
And so even though they are getting into a group 00:07:54.280 |
where it's just kind of, with the Southern Baptist, 00:07:57.280 |
they could be reformed, they can be charismatic, 00:08:00.040 |
they could be seeker-friendly, they could be Calvinist, 00:08:05.520 |
is they do believe in the inerrancy of God's word, 00:08:07.680 |
and they believe the doctrines are theologically sound. 00:08:11.560 |
How they practice that is all over the place. 00:08:13.800 |
The reason why I committed to the Southern Baptist 00:08:27.280 |
But as I was preparing to figure out which denomination 00:08:48.240 |
he basically took the Westminster Confession, Catechism, 00:08:53.140 |
into the Southern Baptist framework of thinking. 00:08:56.320 |
So I would say 95% of that is probably similar 00:09:04.240 |
And so I felt like that's me, I'm a Reformed Baptist, 00:09:07.640 |
if you were to ask specifically what you believe. 00:09:26.780 |
but the last 10 years, there was a resurgence 00:09:29.000 |
of Reformed theology within the Southern Baptist. 00:09:31.440 |
So when I first became ordained, there was almost nothing. 00:09:33.880 |
In fact, they were actually headed down the liberal path. 00:09:43.080 |
And so more and more, there's other Southern Baptists 00:09:53.480 |
A lot of that has to do with the Southern Seminary, 00:10:02.480 |
these are the guys who are up in the forefront 00:10:08.320 |
So that's the background of Southern Baptist. 00:10:17.240 |
to the Southern Baptist because they're supporting him, 00:10:50.040 |
that women should not be leading or teaching. 00:10:56.840 |
So we do not have female elders in the church. 00:11:11.240 |
became, went to school and I was a Bible major, 00:11:15.680 |
this is the first text that I wrestled over with 00:11:34.280 |
and I actually traveled to hear was a female pastor. 00:12:11.560 |
what my sense of fairness is with God's word. 00:12:26.600 |
Because we naturally think if men are in charge 00:12:43.000 |
which all of these things are necessary things. 00:12:51.320 |
I mean, it just seems so backward to even say that, right? 00:13:19.080 |
I think everybody, Christian or non-Christian, 00:13:20.920 |
would automatically have a knee jerk reaction 00:13:23.800 |
We shouldn't treat people who have better things, 00:13:27.600 |
or you have better grades, so you get better seat, 00:13:29.560 |
or you're better looking, so we treat you better. 00:13:37.040 |
we automatically say that's not right, right? 00:13:46.840 |
Now how that plays out, I'll share in a minute, right? 00:13:50.360 |
Why do we automatically have a knee jerk reaction 00:14:01.800 |
Because scripture says that in the kingdom of God, 00:14:05.520 |
those who serve are the greatest in the kingdom of God, 00:14:09.520 |
Because our ability to determine right and wrong, 00:14:20.880 |
Our sinful nature thinks like if you're a CEO 00:14:23.600 |
and you do great things, you should have special place, 00:14:28.120 |
that we recognize that we're fighting against. 00:14:46.000 |
I'm learning fairness in the world that I live in, right? 00:14:53.040 |
God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, 00:14:55.800 |
there is a hierarchy in that God is the initiator, 00:15:00.160 |
Jesus is the mediator, and then the Holy Spirit 00:15:05.240 |
He's the one who kind of makes things happen. 00:15:07.460 |
It would be blasphemous to think that any one of them 00:15:18.040 |
Three in nature and then three in personalities 00:15:24.920 |
So when we look at the perfect picture of the Trinity, 00:15:28.060 |
where they are, each one of them are submitted, 00:15:33.560 |
and never will we ever say that God is better 00:15:40.800 |
in the kingdom of God, in the way that he created 00:15:43.720 |
his mindset, right, in the eternity that we're going to, 00:15:47.660 |
that our idea of good and bad, great and least, 00:15:59.920 |
God didn't say, you know, man is better than a woman. 00:16:04.120 |
and then the women came along to be a suitable helper, 00:16:06.680 |
and so they're playing different roles, right? 00:16:09.640 |
So when you have a conflict, when Eve was created 00:16:18.520 |
God said to be fruitful and multiply, he can't do it. 00:16:24.860 |
So she came to help, but when sin came in, what happened? 00:16:28.440 |
He says that your desire will be for your husband. 00:16:42.160 |
The man is gonna do the work, and at the end of the day, 00:16:49.080 |
In other words, his work is going to be hard and difficult 00:16:53.580 |
So God created order in the family for the husband to lead 00:17:05.680 |
that we see in scripture, and it makes perfect sense 00:17:09.180 |
because you can't have two captains on a team, 00:17:17.520 |
There are some homes where the woman's personality 00:17:44.800 |
the order in the home that God has created, right? 00:17:47.680 |
If you look in the Bible, Priscilla and Achilla, 00:17:54.160 |
she's mentioned first is she was probably more prominent. 00:18:04.180 |
In that culture, to have the woman mentioned first 00:18:31.760 |
what it means to be a leader because they look at 00:18:36.060 |
and leaders in the church, and unless you have 00:18:39.140 |
that kind of personality, you can't lead, right? 00:18:54.920 |
You know, leadership, biblical idea of leadership 00:19:02.880 |
is that you sacrifice for the benefit of your wife, 00:19:05.520 |
and then your wife submits and honors the husband 00:19:15.000 |
So I don't have this like cookie cutter model 00:19:24.680 |
to be reflected in the home and in the church. 00:19:35.240 |
and that's when there's most peace, you know, 00:19:38.480 |
because that's what God intended to begin with, okay? 00:19:41.920 |
Anything more specific than that, we can talk in person. 00:19:58.320 |
Cessationism basically is that the sign gifts 00:20:13.480 |
When the apostles died and the canon of scripture was ended, 00:20:17.600 |
so everything is closed and it does not happen today, 00:20:20.160 |
so all the charismatic stuff that is happening 00:20:22.400 |
is just, it's not from God, maybe even demonic, 00:20:34.860 |
but basically in a nutshell, that's what cessationism means. 00:20:38.360 |
The charismatic, obviously, is where it's everything 00:20:43.420 |
not only does happen, must happen today, right? 00:20:57.540 |
again, and there are different degrees of this too. 00:21:55.200 |
the scripture says where there's two or three 00:21:59.580 |
and I tried for years to look for an interpreter, 00:22:07.280 |
and I prayed with hundreds of people who prayed in tongues, 00:22:14.080 |
I was no longer confident that this was tongues. 00:22:21.120 |
but I stopped doing it because I lost the confidence. 00:22:26.500 |
I should have found at least one out of hundreds, 00:22:35.460 |
and I had people who called themselves prophets, 00:22:38.280 |
you know, and so I've spent plenty of time in that group, 00:22:40.740 |
so every argument against the charismatic movement 00:22:49.640 |
So the question is then why aren't you a cessationist? 00:22:52.920 |
To be honest, if I told you I was a cessationist, 00:22:57.600 |
because there are people who won't come to our church 00:22:59.840 |
just so I won't, 'cause I won't say it, you know, 00:23:26.280 |
I need to make sure that it's coming from scripture, 00:23:36.080 |
where it says it has ceased, that the cessationist used, 00:23:40.800 |
"When the perfect comes, the imperfect shall pass away," 00:23:43.600 |
and oftentimes that perfect is interpreted as the Bible. 00:23:52.280 |
No, almost no scholar believes that that word, 00:23:54.480 |
teleos, or perfect, is in reference to the Bible. 00:23:57.520 |
It's talking about the second coming of Christ, 00:23:59.440 |
or the end, conclusion of our salvation, right? 00:24:07.400 |
Well, the way that the tongue's being used today, 00:24:12.400 |
The gifts were used in order to qualify the apostles, 00:24:22.240 |
So these, they may be good arguments in inference, 00:24:25.440 |
a secondary argument, but it's not the primary argument 00:24:28.720 |
because there is no text that says it does not 00:24:38.400 |
So open but cautious means I just can't say those words 00:24:43.240 |
'cause if I'm gonna stand up in a pulpit and say, 00:24:54.560 |
to exclude all, everything that's happening in the world 00:24:58.400 |
that has ever happened and say, "That's not from God." 00:25:01.280 |
I need something more authoritative than something inferred 00:25:07.680 |
Now, if somebody said that they have prophecy 00:25:09.560 |
and I've heard, again, John Piper, I've heard explained 00:25:18.600 |
"Well, people prophesy and they get it wrong, 00:25:35.760 |
if you prophesy and you got it wrong, they got stoned. 00:25:38.840 |
There was no, it's like, "Let's get this right next time," 00:25:42.640 |
You can't say, "God said this," and then be wrong 00:26:09.880 |
it just kind of, you know, I don't think it's wise, 00:26:17.440 |
a lot of it is just kind of like somebody's leg 00:26:20.840 |
and then you ask them, "Did you know it was crooked?" 00:26:30.360 |
I'm not saying that it can't happen, it's not from God, 00:26:39.620 |
So my question is, if you actually have that gift, 00:26:45.960 |
where only certain people can see that's contained? 00:26:49.720 |
Why do you not do it the way the New Testament do it? 00:26:55.080 |
before the game starts, get the people to come down, 00:26:58.640 |
heal somebody in a wheelchair and get them off 00:27:22.680 |
and then say, "Look," and then just show them the passage. 00:27:35.480 |
it's always because you didn't have enough faith. 00:27:38.280 |
It is not consistent with what I see in scripture, right? 00:27:43.720 |
only reason I'm open is because I don't see in the scripture 00:27:47.600 |
to be confident and say it cannot, does not happen. 00:27:56.600 |
But what I have experienced in the charismatic community, 00:28:06.600 |
But I know I have plenty of friends who would say, 00:28:23.840 |
But there's a, let me just give you a short version of this 00:28:31.520 |
When I was studying through 1 John, I came upon this. 00:28:35.840 |
The King James Version is based upon a manuscript 00:28:45.560 |
is only about 800 years old because they found it around, 00:28:49.360 |
or at least they date it around 1200 something, right? 00:28:52.560 |
But we have the text that our NIV, NASB, and ESB 00:29:01.960 |
And so there's a lot of arguments going back and forth. 00:29:14.760 |
and it was basically a conspiracy by the devil 00:29:17.280 |
introduced to the church so that the salvation by grace 00:29:20.440 |
is being weeded out and the salvation by works 00:29:26.120 |
of why they're fighting so strongly against it 00:29:28.320 |
because they think that King James is the only version 00:29:30.760 |
that actually teaches salvation by grace alone, 00:29:35.120 |
So if you study the history behind their conspiracy, 00:29:44.960 |
and if, again, I don't have time to go into the details, 00:29:49.840 |
look into their history, look into what they stand for, 00:29:57.120 |
and you'll have a hard time taking it too seriously. 00:30:02.640 |
but the conspiracy theory that's coming out of that group, 00:30:09.040 |
Okay, so I'm not gonna get too deep into that, 00:30:10.920 |
but there's clear evidence that the Greek manuscript 00:30:15.520 |
that we are using for ESV, NASV is much more reliable, 00:30:20.960 |
There's no, I would say majority of the scholars today agree 00:30:27.720 |
is the manuscript or closest to the manuscript 00:30:30.080 |
they had in the early church, not the Texas Receptives. 00:30:38.280 |
and I've been getting this question quite a bit. 00:30:45.760 |
where discipleship was looked upon very one-dimensional, 00:30:49.960 |
meaning that you had a leader and you had a follower, 00:30:55.440 |
That's how I learned discipleship when I was younger. 00:30:57.640 |
I came through a group that was kind of like navigators 00:31:00.120 |
and very, you know, and navigators, the Korean version. 00:31:06.840 |
but on top of that you had the Korean culture, 00:31:19.080 |
was kind of extreme, and they basically taught 00:31:24.000 |
and even if they're wrong, God will honor that 00:31:28.040 |
Submitting to them means submitting to God, right? 00:31:30.560 |
Now, I know majority of you, if not all of you, 00:31:44.660 |
but that was my understanding of discipleship, 00:31:48.480 |
So small group leader discipling the younger people, 00:31:52.320 |
the disciple, and then the multiplication principle. 00:31:56.640 |
four disciple, eight, and then instead of adding, 00:32:01.560 |
So the first, maybe about 10 years of ministry, 00:32:04.000 |
that's what I did with the high school students 00:32:08.100 |
but I started seeing a problem in that system 00:32:21.040 |
and then people who didn't fit into that fell out. 00:32:26.600 |
there was a clear hierarchy that was already in place 00:32:43.040 |
and there was about a, maybe about seven year age gap. 00:32:54.720 |
like, so every time somebody came to the church, 00:33:06.720 |
But if you happen to come in and you're 35 years old, 00:33:10.040 |
we have 50 year olds, 55 year olds coming in, 00:33:14.880 |
You know, which system do they fit under, right? 00:33:19.600 |
if the local church is filled, it's generational. 00:33:39.920 |
and then people are coming to faith from all backgrounds, 00:33:42.760 |
who do they fall under for discipleship, right? 00:33:46.160 |
So I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, 00:33:48.940 |
but it does not cover the discipleship of everybody. 00:33:54.480 |
where it's easy to disciple singles in that context, 00:33:57.440 |
but once they get married, it's completely different 00:34:06.520 |
So discipleship in our church, when we were younger, 00:34:11.800 |
and it was mostly young singles and collegians, 00:34:26.400 |
we had a highly committed, highly mobilized church. 00:34:36.100 |
Out of the 170, 40 of them actually lived in China 00:34:40.220 |
for anywhere from six months to a year or two years. 00:34:49.580 |
So we actually had to tell them to stop coming out. 00:34:55.080 |
That's how the church was like in the early church. 00:35:02.780 |
if somebody didn't show up, they got 15 phone calls. 00:35:19.980 |
all of a sudden got married and started having kids. 00:35:24.420 |
or taking a break, that's the term that's used. 00:35:26.280 |
They're taking a break because they have to take care 00:35:30.040 |
So we went from 30 leaders to maybe about 15. 00:35:36.420 |
And so the small groups, we weren't able to run 00:35:42.500 |
And so the small groups that we were running, 00:36:09.460 |
And so we came to the conclusion that we don't want that. 00:36:21.940 |
they were dropping out 'cause they were having kids. 00:36:27.260 |
okay, this small group system is not working. 00:36:35.660 |
but we're hoping that within the small group, 00:36:40.220 |
and maybe some discipleship in some of the groups 00:36:49.420 |
You know, it's not like we don't wanna raise up leaders. 00:36:52.720 |
But since then, obviously the church has doubled. 00:36:56.300 |
You know, and we've also sent out a church out to BMC. 00:37:00.300 |
Majority of the BMC were core members that went. 00:37:19.540 |
since that's where our church is doing mission. 00:37:23.820 |
majority of them were young singles or married people 00:37:28.820 |
So with Pastor Aaron, our former youth pastor went up. 00:37:34.780 |
Yeah, two deacons all go up along with core members. 00:37:37.860 |
So even the small group of workers who were there, 00:37:54.000 |
and again, we're not saying that this is exactly 00:37:56.580 |
what we're gonna be doing for the next 10 years. 00:38:01.300 |
The first tier is kind of thrown on a net, right? 00:38:04.700 |
Thrown on a net is like on Sunday, we're preaching. 00:38:07.700 |
And the primary way of discipleship for the whole church 00:38:11.120 |
is through the large teaching and preaching, right? 00:38:14.260 |
And it should be at some point in our walk with God, 00:38:21.260 |
the word of God should be sufficient enough, right? 00:38:26.500 |
Because God did not put like, here's the word of God, 00:38:30.060 |
but it needs, the word of God has to come to you 00:38:36.340 |
And typically, when we talk about this one-to-one model, 00:38:38.700 |
it's always talk about what Jesus had the 12 disciples. 00:38:46.860 |
Even in Jesus's ministry, there were the multitudes, right? 00:39:00.340 |
like his mother, James and John's mom, sister. 00:39:05.340 |
So we had a group of women who were following him, 00:39:07.900 |
who were called his disciples, but they weren't apostles. 00:39:15.420 |
he has ministry for the few that he's been ministering to, 00:39:27.740 |
for the purpose of planting churches and their apostles. 00:39:39.160 |
telling him to establish leaders in the church. 00:39:44.620 |
that every single Christian needs to be under 00:39:50.220 |
who discipled the 3,000 people who got converted? 00:39:57.500 |
So the only thing that is mandated in scripture 00:40:09.740 |
but anytime we put confidence in human system, 00:40:18.460 |
And you're gonna end up going from church to church 00:40:20.740 |
and group to group looking for another person 00:40:40.780 |
God said everything we need for life of Godliness, 00:40:52.660 |
It could be helpful, but it's not necessary, right? 00:40:55.840 |
The way we approach discipleship is throw a net, right? 00:41:06.380 |
They're serving in the background, they're volunteering. 00:41:08.620 |
And then the tier where we pay more special attention 00:41:13.140 |
hey, can I be discipled for this purpose, right? 00:41:19.860 |
and they're serious and I see that there's a pattern 00:41:26.380 |
are you being obedient to what you already know, right? 00:41:30.260 |
Somebody came to me, you know, not too long ago 00:41:50.780 |
So discipleship, sometimes the way people think 00:41:53.720 |
of discipleship is somebody to kind of life coach. 00:41:57.300 |
It'd be great to have somebody older that I can pour out to 00:42:01.100 |
But, you know, the discipleship is teaching them 00:42:03.700 |
to observe all that I have commanded you, right? 00:42:10.580 |
You know, and if you do, yes, it is available. 00:42:31.500 |
you wanna be challenged, you know, being fed, you know, 00:42:35.340 |
in a larger scale where just being thrown out, 00:42:38.420 |
like you want something more specific, right? 00:42:41.740 |
And you wanna be challenged that way, come and ask us 00:42:45.820 |
that can actually sit with you and disciple you. 00:42:48.060 |
But it is not proclaimed, it is not just given, you know, 00:43:01.740 |
shouldn't be discipled, but for the most part, 00:43:04.820 |
what's mandated in scripture is the Word, right? 00:43:08.700 |
So if you're thinking that preaching of the Word of God 00:43:12.180 |
is not enough, look carefully into the scripture, right? 00:43:16.820 |
Because predominantly from the beginning to the end, 00:43:31.380 |
Everything else is kind of like charity, right? 00:43:43.180 |
where it's like, oh, it's great, it's better. 00:43:46.580 |
an older person that's speaking into your life. 00:43:49.340 |
And I've grown tremendously 'cause I benefited from that 00:43:54.580 |
I was personally discipled for about four years, 00:43:57.580 |
but I've been a Christian for like 35, 36 years. 00:44:00.940 |
So who decided me to be the all that other type? 00:44:05.780 |
So if you have that, great, but don't make that a crutch 00:44:13.300 |
But the purpose of the crutch is to heal your leg 00:44:16.820 |
But five years later, you're still walking on that crutch, 00:44:21.180 |
That crutch is actually hindering you from your walk, right? 00:44:24.100 |
So we believe the Word of God is sufficient, right? 00:44:27.380 |
Okay, so that's, I said I was gonna give you a short version 00:44:55.780 |
But let me tell you, local outreach in our church 00:45:00.540 |
It's not a program that we do Tuesday and Thursday, 00:45:03.860 |
and we're gonna have this event, invite your friends. 00:45:06.260 |
I'm not against that, but the most effective way 00:45:09.140 |
of doing evangelism is to equip people to do evangelism. 00:45:13.740 |
So if you are being affected by the Word of God, 00:45:16.420 |
you are the best evangelist wherever you are. 00:45:23.260 |
what happens is that program becomes the church evangelism. 00:45:29.500 |
Well, the outreach team or a few people in the church. 00:45:43.420 |
Again, if I was free from all other responsibilities 00:45:54.540 |
I like being out in the street, talking to people, 00:45:57.420 |
missions, people say, "Aren't you tired going to missions?" 00:46:00.060 |
But it rejuvenates me, 'cause that's my natural heart. 00:46:05.900 |
street evangelism, I wish we did more of that. 00:46:09.020 |
But the best way to do evangelism is to raise up people 00:46:12.460 |
who are convicted to share their faith wherever they are. 00:46:16.460 |
And so, is there anything wrong with having programs? 00:46:26.060 |
and the whole church thinks that we're doing evangelism 00:46:32.420 |
even when we were smaller and we would go out 00:46:34.780 |
on the streets regularly, we always told our church, 00:46:37.460 |
"Our goal is to raise up people who will do evangelism, 00:46:42.340 |
And that's also true about social justice ministry. 00:46:46.620 |
You know, it's like, we're not trying to create a program 00:47:04.740 |
Like, do you need to, in order to be generous, 00:47:07.540 |
do you have to have a program in the church to be generous? 00:47:10.500 |
You run into people all the time who are in need. 00:47:13.900 |
And then if your natural thought when you see that is, 00:47:16.700 |
what can I, how can I, how can the church do something? 00:47:20.060 |
That's not, that shouldn't be your natural thought. 00:47:22.220 |
Your first thought should be, what should you do? 00:47:26.220 |
It shouldn't be, I see a bunch of homeless people, 00:47:31.740 |
Your first thought is, what should you do to that, 00:47:36.100 |
So, oftentimes people will come and they ask me, 00:47:44.360 |
So, every time somebody asks, "How come we don't do this?" 00:47:48.940 |
Okay, and "Why don't you juggle some of this?" 00:47:50.380 |
I read the scripture and you should just start juggling that. 00:47:56.820 |
Who is the, who has more time and more energy, 00:48:06.900 |
Because we're all, like, our calendar is full. 00:48:11.440 |
In fact, every Saturday we have our elders meeting 00:48:22.980 |
Well, it can't be any of us 'cause, you know, 00:48:29.560 |
And so, the best thing is if you are convicted about that 00:48:32.820 |
and you want to do more than just individually, 00:48:37.640 |
So, come and ask us and we'll support you, right? 00:48:42.580 |
But I don't think that's something that the church, 00:48:44.380 |
instead, we need to hire somebody to do social justice. 00:48:50.820 |
That's something that we want the church to do, right? 00:48:53.380 |
The primary thing that the church is called to do 00:48:55.860 |
is to preach the word in season and out of season, 00:49:00.460 |
may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 00:49:04.380 |
to be a committed expository listener, you know, 00:49:08.620 |
also means to be committed expository practicing, right? 00:49:15.660 |
it's our way of equipping you and discipling you 00:49:17.740 |
so that you may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 00:49:21.960 |
Again, you know, I can't answer all of your questions. 00:49:25.860 |
If you have more specific things that you want to ask, 00:49:28.780 |
having said that, does that mean that we're doing 00:49:35.140 |
So, there's some things that you could probably do better. 00:49:50.180 |
to focus our energy on something that's secondary. 00:49:52.440 |
Just like the Grecian widows that weren't being fed. 00:49:55.660 |
Imagine how serious that problem would have been. 00:49:58.160 |
But they're literally, their parents or grandparents 00:50:03.980 |
It wasn't just somebody who was cold out on the streets. 00:50:07.980 |
So, if there was any emergency that the apostles 00:50:18.740 |
'Cause we can't take ourselves away from the preaching 00:50:24.800 |
'Cause that's a primary thing that we're called to do. 00:50:42.540 |
like we have some of the sisters in our church 00:50:46.100 |
I'm already always encouraged when I see that. 00:50:50.180 |
to see if more people would join them, you know. 00:50:55.940 |
and not just waiting for something to happen, 00:50:59.180 |
hey, we're just gonna go on the street, right? 00:51:02.820 |
So, I would like to see more of that happening 00:51:06.040 |
Just kind of organically serve, give, you know, evangelize. 00:51:35.440 |
normally I would just ask you to just raise your hand 00:51:42.620 |
or sometimes you ask questions that I don't wanna answer. 00:51:54.540 |
for the rest of the group, I'll try to get to it. 00:52:02.280 |
One, I think I mentioned this last couple sermons. 00:52:08.260 |
Part of the reason why there are so many pastors 00:52:10.340 |
who are being led astray is that there isn't enough filter 00:52:15.340 |
for people entering into ministry to begin with, right? 00:52:20.780 |
So, a lot of these pastors came into the ministry 00:52:24.580 |
where they shouldn't have been in ministry to begin with. 00:52:26.520 |
Now, I say that because I've been in ministry 00:53:03.840 |
And the reason why is, if we were taking a class, 00:53:08.840 |
20% of the class was based upon an honor system, 00:53:16.160 |
"You have to read from Genesis to Revelation." 00:53:22.320 |
And if you said, "No," that's 20% of your grade. 00:53:24.560 |
So, if you happen to be an Asian that has to get an A, 00:53:27.480 |
and you didn't read it, if you say, "No," you get a C. 00:53:32.920 |
I had so many of my friends who would come out 00:53:40.340 |
Whether it was the Bible or a book that they read, 00:53:55.760 |
And it was very routine that this was happening. 00:54:01.480 |
And again, I'm not saying every pastor is like that, 00:54:03.760 |
but I saw enough of it where it was very hard for me 00:54:07.240 |
to just assume that these pastors had integrity. 00:54:12.960 |
So, there was a period of time I stopped going 00:54:23.520 |
"This large church called me to be a pastor." 00:54:34.640 |
And like literally, I'd say, "I have this idea." 00:54:42.720 |
He was invited to a large church to be their pastor. 00:54:47.500 |
And he's told us that he's gonna go out to Korea 00:54:50.800 |
and have his last fling before he enters into ministry. 00:54:56.100 |
too many people are gonna, too many eyes are gonna be on him. 00:55:16.520 |
and that would've been it, that's not the case. 00:55:26.160 |
He shared that with us because nobody flinched. 00:55:29.840 |
Because that was the kind of environment that it was. 00:55:33.000 |
And so, there are some people in that group, okay? 00:55:46.360 |
Some of them are speakers in large conferences. 00:55:51.920 |
They were friends of mine when I was in school. 00:55:55.060 |
And I've been in ministry long enough to see everything. 00:56:09.400 |
And so, part of the reason why all this stuff is happening 00:56:15.840 |
there's just, the entrance into ministry is just too easy. 00:56:38.000 |
with the right heart, and tried to have integrity, 00:56:39.720 |
the way ministry is, there's not enough accountability. 00:56:43.060 |
And once you become a pastor, you automatically, 00:56:45.520 |
you're the spiritual giant of whatever group you're in. 00:56:48.960 |
And then, so you end, if you happen to be in ministry 00:56:58.200 |
you end up automatically elevated to a celebrity status, 00:57:01.400 |
and from that moment on, you have to play the role, right? 00:57:07.000 |
and preaching spiritual things, and you're playing a role, 00:57:21.480 |
the elders in our church have equal say, right? 00:57:24.160 |
When it comes to finances, I don't get involved at all. 00:57:26.760 |
Like, they have one, like, I just detach myself from that, 00:57:32.520 |
We have a weekly meeting with our leadership, 00:57:34.920 |
and we ask each other, like, where's your heart? 00:57:41.660 |
With our pastors, because they're paid staff, 00:57:43.600 |
we, there's accountability system where we ask each other, 00:57:52.640 |
this is what I'm doing, this is who I'm meeting with, 00:57:54.880 |
you know, and then this is how I'm spending my schedule. 00:57:56.920 |
And again, it's not to like, I'm micromanaging everybody, 00:58:03.620 |
so we're not in the office nine to five all the time, 00:58:05.840 |
so we try to have accountability when we make sure. 00:58:10.840 |
So don't look at it saying, oh, your pastor's so assumed. 00:58:17.560 |
we struggle with temptation, just like everybody else. 00:58:23.280 |
and the integrity is not just by determination. 00:58:34.120 |
They are, some of them are better at certain things 00:58:41.240 |
You know, I just happen to be the guy that most people see, 00:58:44.040 |
but they're just as vital to the church as I am, right? 00:58:52.280 |
Does that guarantee that people aren't gonna fall? 00:59:04.040 |
you're trying to figure out what led them to that. 00:59:10.600 |
and then you get tempted and you do it anyway. 00:59:19.640 |
And then you say, "I can't possibly do that," 00:59:27.320 |
Like people who do drugs, they don't think this out. 00:59:32.600 |
it's like, "Don't you know the consequences?" 00:59:47.780 |
So one of the things that I do for me on the internet is, 01:00:14.840 |
Right, so you have to make provisions to make sure, 01:00:21.600 |
some people probably shouldn't be in ministry. 01:00:23.360 |
Second, you know, the way ministry is being done, 01:00:30.360 |
we have to recognize that without the mercy of God, 01:00:33.120 |
even with everything, without the mercy of God, 01:01:01.680 |
If you have something that you wanna ask, don't hesitate. 01:01:05.320 |
You know, people have told me that I look intimidating, 01:01:15.880 |
That is not the case, even though I may look like that. 01:01:20.560 |
It actually, I'm very thankful when you take the initiative 01:01:24.480 |
because I know that there are needs that I can deal with, 01:01:32.240 |
And so if you actually come and take the initiative 01:01:37.080 |
So I invite you, like, if you have other questions 01:01:43.800 |
and I can give you a more extended version, okay? 01:01:47.640 |
All right, let me pray for us, and then we'll dismiss. 01:01:50.000 |
Gracious Father, we thank you for this afternoon. 01:01:53.960 |
And we know that I probably only just touched the surface 01:01:57.240 |
of so many questions, but we pray, Father God, 01:02:00.080 |
that you would help us as a church to be united in purpose, 01:02:06.360 |
teach us and give us wisdom how to build a church 01:02:08.560 |
where we're truly running this race together. 01:02:11.080 |
We thank you, Father Jesus, in your name we pray.