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20160817 Wednesday Bible Study


Whisper Transcript | Transcript Only Page

00:00:00.000 | Heavenly Father, we thank you for giving us this evening to be able to come together with
00:00:09.320 | brothers and sisters to be able to share, to pray, to provoke one another on toward
00:00:14.520 | love and good deeds.
00:00:16.320 | We pray that the study of Isaiah, Lord, even though at times it may be confusing, I pray
00:00:21.440 | that your heart and your will and your desire, who you are, your glory, all of these things
00:00:26.460 | may be revealed, that the more we see of who you are and how you work, that they would
00:00:31.860 | instill in us a greater confidence, Lord God, of all the promises that you give.
00:00:36.760 | We pray for your Holy Spirit to lead us, that our hearts may be filled with you, and we
00:00:42.020 | ask for your blessing over this time in Jesus' name we pray, amen.
00:00:46.320 | So next week is going to be a wrap-up study.
00:00:49.720 | So this week there is no homework because we're done with chapter 56, and so we're going
00:00:55.340 | to be taking a break, a three-week break after next week.
00:01:00.000 | So next week is just going to be review.
00:01:01.900 | We're going to be going over, again, all of it, not just the session that we did.
00:01:04.920 | We're going to do an overview study just to kind of get you to remember some of the things
00:01:11.580 | that we studied.
00:01:12.580 | I do want to encourage you to take some time to review your notes, you know, to go back
00:01:17.420 | and just, you don't have to know it in detail, but just go through it, and then your memory
00:01:22.840 | verses that you have, try to do your best to go back and ...
00:01:25.560 | Next week, how many of your groups have not done the snacks?
00:01:31.220 | Okay.
00:01:32.220 | Raise your hand if your group hasn't done the snacks yet.
00:01:35.860 | Okay.
00:01:36.860 | If you're doing it today, don't raise your hand.
00:01:38.860 | Okay.
00:01:39.860 | The ones who haven't done it yet, raise your hand, raise your hand.
00:01:41.600 | So we have one, two, whichever, three, four, five, six groups?
00:01:46.860 | Okay.
00:01:47.860 | Raise your hand.
00:01:48.860 | Let me see how many of you guys are getting.
00:01:49.860 | One, two, three, four, five, six groups.
00:01:54.860 | Okay.
00:01:55.860 | Yeah, I counted you guys, right?
00:01:58.860 | All right.
00:01:59.860 | So, all of your groups who didn't do it, we'll all do it all at once next week, okay?
00:02:05.860 | So, it is our finale.
00:02:09.860 | Yeah.
00:02:10.860 | So, it is our finale.
00:02:11.860 | So, typically, we only have two groups.
00:02:13.860 | So, you guys are triple that, which means it would be, it should be triple the, triple
00:02:18.860 | the amount, triple the flavor, triple everything, okay?
00:02:22.860 | So, so please come, again, all of you guys could, hey, let me see.
00:02:28.860 | I need to know who you are so that we can better coordinate, so we don't just have all
00:02:33.860 | drinks.
00:02:34.860 | Can, can one of your groups take charge so that you guys can coordinate what you guys
00:02:39.860 | are going to be bringing?
00:02:40.860 | Can you raise your hand again?
00:02:41.860 | Does somebody want to volunteer?
00:02:43.860 | Nobody's raising, don't put it down.
00:02:47.860 | Don't put it down.
00:02:48.860 | Any group want to volunteer to coordinate and serve the kingdom of God for His glory?
00:02:56.860 | Earn rewards in heaven?
00:03:06.860 | Oh, their, their hands went up first, okay, so the glory goes to your group over there.
00:03:10.860 | All right.
00:03:11.860 | So, can you jot down which groups they are so that you'll know who they are?
00:03:14.860 | So, can you raise your hand if you're one of the groups that's going to be bringing
00:03:17.860 | snacks?
00:03:18.860 | So, can you guys, can you stand up and see who they are and jot it down?
00:03:22.860 | Okay.
00:03:23.860 | Raise your hand until they get, they get you.
00:03:26.860 | Okay, this group here, up here.
00:03:40.860 | Okay, you got it?
00:03:41.860 | There's six groups.
00:03:42.860 | You got six groups?
00:03:43.860 | Okay.
00:03:44.860 | So, if you guys can do us a favor and coordinate, okay?
00:03:47.860 | That's for next week.
00:03:48.860 | So, next, next week, because it is a review, we're going to spend some extended time worship,
00:03:53.860 | praying, and then take extended time fellowship at the end, okay?
00:03:56.860 | And then after that, we're going to take at least three, possibly four weeks off, but
00:04:01.860 | right now the plan is to take three weeks off, okay?
00:04:04.860 | And then there's some other things that we're working on right now, but we, it's not finalized
00:04:08.860 | yet, so we won't let you know.
00:04:10.860 | But we'll let you know as that happens, okay?
00:04:16.860 | All right, so let's start.
00:04:20.860 | And those of you who are coordinating, if you are facilitating and leading the small
00:04:24.860 | group, you're going to be getting an email sometime early next week, just to kind of,
00:04:29.860 | you know, asking for some feedback and for some direction for the following week, so
00:04:33.860 | just look out for that.
00:04:34.860 | And please, if you see the email coming from me, respond ASAP, okay?
00:04:40.860 | The habit is, I get about half of people to respond right away, and the other half take
00:04:44.860 | like two to three weeks.
00:04:45.860 | So, if you get an email from me, please respond as quickly as you can, okay?
00:04:50.860 | And this is for the small group facilitators.
00:04:52.860 | All right, so let's look at Chapter 5065.
00:04:57.860 | I doubled up because we had two weeks on Thursday and Friday, so hopefully you had more time
00:05:01.860 | to dig.
00:05:02.860 | Okay, so if we look at Chapter 65, we're looking at the very end of the book of Isaiah,
00:05:07.860 | and he is prophesying about the promise of restoration at the end times.
00:05:13.860 | We said that it could be in the time of the millennium, the thousand-year reign of Christ.
00:05:18.860 | It could also be talking about the very end, right?
00:05:21.860 | So, if you look at Chapter 65, it is a rebuke toward the nation of Israel.
00:05:27.860 | So, if you've noticed, Chapter 65 and 66, the tone of it is rebuke, right?
00:05:34.860 | Up to this point, he's been talking about restoration and promise, but he also is reminding
00:05:39.860 | the nation of Israel because even though he's prophesying about the end times, Isaiah is
00:05:44.860 | prophesying to a specific group of people in a historical context, right?
00:05:49.860 | So, during Isaiah's prophecy, what was happening to the nation of Israel?
00:05:54.860 | Do you remember?
00:05:56.860 | Those of you guys who were with us, either through any part of the study or in the very
00:06:00.860 | beginning of the book of Isaiah?
00:06:02.860 | Hmm?
00:06:03.860 | They were prospering.
00:06:05.860 | What else was happening?
00:06:09.860 | What is one sin that kept on being repeated over and over and God seems to keep pointing out?
00:06:17.860 | False religion, right?
00:06:18.860 | They were very active, and because they were living in a time of peace, their confidence
00:06:25.860 | was in other nations or their wealth or whatever it was that they had, so it wasn't like they
00:06:30.860 | were going out and outright worshipping idols.
00:06:33.860 | They were very busy worshipping at the temple, but they weren't right with God.
00:06:38.860 | What God was calling for was not superficial worship, but true repentance.
00:06:42.860 | And so, up to this point, up to Chapter, remember, Chapter 39 up to this point, it's all promises
00:06:49.860 | of God's restoration, right?
00:06:51.860 | And then, but at the very end, he comes back into the historical context reminding them,
00:06:56.860 | but don't forget, right?
00:06:58.860 | God is not going to sweep their sins just under the rug.
00:07:01.860 | Even though he's talking about restoration, they're not off the hook, right?
00:07:05.860 | God is going to deal with that.
00:07:06.860 | So when he comes, sin is going to be dealt with, but he's also going to be restoring
00:07:10.860 | at the same time.
00:07:11.860 | So that's where we are in Chapter 65, where he's talking to, in 65, he says, "I was ready
00:07:16.860 | to be sought by those who did not ask for me.
00:07:18.860 | I was ready to be found by those who did not seek me."
00:07:21.860 | Who is he referring to?
00:07:25.860 | I mean, as in the whole context, it's definitely the nation of Israel.
00:07:28.860 | But the first verse when he says, "I said, 'Here am I, here am I,' to a nation that
00:07:33.860 | was not called by my name."
00:07:35.860 | So if you look at your sheet, I have the wrong reference there.
00:07:40.860 | It says Isaiah 10, 20, 21.
00:07:41.860 | It's actually Romans 10, 20, 21, where Paul actually cites this verse.
00:07:47.860 | So turn your Bibles to Romans 10, 20, and 21.
00:07:50.860 | And I think it'll kind of maybe shed light on how we ought to understand this text.
00:07:58.860 | Romans 10, 20, 21.
00:08:00.860 | Can somebody read that out loud?
00:08:10.860 | Joseph.
00:08:11.860 | Go ahead.
00:08:13.860 | [inaudible]
00:08:23.860 | Okay.
00:08:24.860 | So in Romans 10, 20, and 21, what is verse 1 in reference to?
00:08:32.860 | Gentiles.
00:08:33.860 | Right.
00:08:34.860 | He's going to open up the kingdom to the Gentiles, people who are not called.
00:08:38.860 | They were not privileged like the nation of Israel.
00:08:40.860 | But these people, the nation of Israel that God was holding his hand out all this time
00:08:44.860 | through the history, they were rebellious.
00:08:46.860 | In other words, that the judgment that they deserve is much greater.
00:08:49.860 | Right?
00:08:56.860 | So how does he describe these people?
00:08:59.860 | He says they are a rebellious people.
00:09:03.860 | And I'm just going to highlight a few of them.
00:09:05.860 | They walk in a way that is not good.
00:09:07.860 | And the way he describes why they're not good is because they follow their own devices.
00:09:12.860 | Even in the way they worship God.
00:09:15.860 | Right?
00:09:16.860 | They're giving sacrifices, but they're not the things that God was demanding.
00:09:22.860 | Remember when I said God does the lights and loyalty rather than sacrifice and then burnt offering.
00:09:26.860 | Right?
00:09:28.860 | And rather the knowledge of God.
00:09:30.860 | That's what God desires.
00:09:32.860 | So what they were doing was, well, this part they want to keep to themselves.
00:09:37.860 | They weren't willing to repent, so they were offering all this other stuff.
00:09:40.860 | Right?
00:09:41.860 | And so this can easily happen where you're in church busy serving God.
00:09:46.860 | And then because you're serving God in the church, it kind of somehow excuses all the other stuff that God is demanding.
00:09:52.860 | But in the nation of Israel, he's basically saying that you're busy serving me at the temple,
00:09:58.860 | but that's not the thing that God desired from them.
00:10:07.860 | They provoke him to his face.
00:10:08.860 | How does he do that?
00:10:10.860 | How does the nation of Israel do that?
00:10:11.860 | They sacrifice in gardens and make offerings on bricks.
00:10:15.860 | In other words, they were worshiping God, but not the way that God told them to.
00:10:19.860 | Remember, what was the sin of the Northern Kingdom?
00:10:26.860 | Okay, how specifically?
00:10:30.860 | Okay, but specifically?
00:10:35.860 | What was the… remember when the Southern Kingdom and Northern Kingdom split?
00:10:39.860 | There was a particular sin that they brought in from the very beginning.
00:10:45.860 | I mean, basically what you said is right, but more specific.
00:10:50.860 | No, that was the Southern Kingdom.
00:10:52.860 | Right?
00:10:53.860 | The Northern Kingdom was where, remember, they were concerned that they were going to come down to Jerusalem to give sacrifices.
00:11:00.860 | So he makes a golden calf worship and say, "This is Yahweh."
00:11:04.860 | And then he set up a place of worship outside of Jerusalem.
00:11:07.860 | Right?
00:11:08.860 | But the Southern Kingdom's problem was they kept on sacrificing in high places.
00:11:12.860 | Right?
00:11:13.860 | In a place where God did not prescribe.
00:11:15.860 | So they would keep on making sacrifices the way they wanted to.
00:11:18.860 | In the name of Yahweh, saying that this is sacrifice for God, but it wasn't at the temple.
00:11:23.860 | It wasn't at the altar that God prescribed.
00:11:25.860 | Right?
00:11:26.860 | So every time, even though they were sacrificing for God, what does God say?
00:11:30.860 | Every time they sacrifice, He said, "They are provoking Him."
00:11:34.860 | Right?
00:11:35.860 | They're worshiping Him, but their worship is provoking Him.
00:11:39.860 | Right?
00:11:40.860 | Isn't that what Isaiah says in the beginning?
00:11:42.860 | That your sacrifice, your song, they're detestable.
00:11:45.860 | You're evil assembly.
00:11:47.860 | Right?
00:11:48.860 | And it's all done in the name of Yahweh.
00:11:50.860 | And yet God, instead of worshiping and being honored, it says God is angered by it.
00:11:56.860 | And now, again, so He starts out in the historical context, remember, in chapter 1, chapter 2?
00:12:01.860 | And now He's wrapping up and He's going back to Israel's context.
00:12:08.860 | They continue to spend their nights in secret places.
00:12:11.860 | They eat pigs.
00:12:12.860 | Again, all of these things are things that God said would make them unclean.
00:12:17.860 | Right?
00:12:19.860 | And then, again, another thing we wonder how they consider themselves holy.
00:12:23.860 | Even though God is calling them to repentance, if they don't see themselves as sinners, what could they repent of?
00:12:32.860 | Why didn't they see themselves—why did they see themselves as holy?
00:12:37.860 | Because they were busy.
00:12:38.860 | They were busy at the temple.
00:12:40.860 | They were busy making sacrifices.
00:12:41.860 | So, because they were busy doing God's work, they thought they were holy.
00:12:46.860 | And that's what caused them to have hardened hearts.
00:12:51.860 | They didn't see themselves like the Gentiles.
00:12:54.860 | Right?
00:12:55.860 | So, whenever God prescribed repentance and judgment, it's like, yeah, those people.
00:12:59.860 | But they didn't see themselves in that place.
00:13:01.860 | And God is saying, this is the very reason why judgment is going to come.
00:13:08.860 | So, isn't that interesting?
00:13:09.860 | I mean, when you take your time to actually study and then let the Word of God judge the thoughts and intentions of our heart,
00:13:16.860 | it's like, people who are in the church are not typically guilty of idol worship.
00:13:21.860 | Right?
00:13:22.860 | People who are typically in decent churches are not guilty of prosperity gospel or the false gospel.
00:13:29.860 | That's not what we're—that's typically—that's not the danger that is knocking at our door constantly.
00:13:35.860 | These are the things that we're—if we're not careful—can easily creep in.
00:13:40.860 | Being busy in the things of the Lord.
00:13:43.860 | Right?
00:13:44.860 | Being busy giving sacrifices.
00:13:45.860 | And so, you kind of get to a point where the Word of God is no longer molding you.
00:13:50.860 | And you see every time you read the Word of God, you're always seeing it at the lens of who needs to hear this.
00:13:56.860 | Right?
00:13:57.860 | So, we're not being transformed.
00:13:59.860 | We're not being sanctified.
00:14:00.860 | And so, again, that's where the nation of Israel is.
00:14:03.860 | And I think that's why the book of Isaiah is very relevant to our culture, like church culture.
00:14:07.860 | Right?
00:14:08.860 | What illustration does he use in verse 8?
00:14:14.860 | Right?
00:14:15.860 | So, if you look at verse 8, it says, "Thus says the Lord, 'As a new wine is found in the cluster, and they say, 'Do not destroy it, for there is blessing in it.'
00:14:25.860 | So I will do for My servant's sake and not destroy them all."
00:14:29.860 | So, again, over and over again, he talks about a remnant.
00:14:33.860 | And as a result of the remnant, that God will not completely destroy them.
00:14:38.860 | Right?
00:14:39.860 | What story does that remind you of?
00:14:41.860 | Where God says He's angry to the nation of Israel, but He will not destroy them completely because of the remnant.
00:14:47.860 | Right?
00:14:48.860 | Because of the few righteous.
00:14:49.860 | What story does that remind you of?
00:14:51.860 | The wheat and the tares?
00:14:55.860 | Somebody said it.
00:14:57.860 | Story of Lot, right?
00:14:59.860 | Where Abraham is pleading with God, "What if there's 50? What if there's 45? What if there's 40?"
00:15:04.860 | And then He kind of brings them down all the way to 10.
00:15:07.860 | If there's 10, would you still destroy it?
00:15:09.860 | And He says, "No, no, I wouldn't destroy even 10."
00:15:11.860 | So they couldn't even find 10.
00:15:13.860 | Right?
00:15:14.860 | So this story, again, this thing reminds us of the story of Lot.
00:15:19.860 | Where Abraham is pleading, and it says, "God would not destroy the righteous with the unrighteous."
00:15:24.860 | He's saying there is still hope for the nation of Israel because of the remnant.
00:15:29.860 | Right?
00:15:30.860 | It's not all of Israel, but the remnant.
00:15:33.860 | How does He describe the distinction between the servant and those who are rebellious?
00:15:40.860 | The remnant and those who are not?
00:15:42.860 | "My servants shall eat, but they shall go hungry."
00:15:50.860 | So these are the faithful versus the unfaithful.
00:15:54.860 | There's not a distinction between the wise and the unwise, the rich and the poor.
00:15:58.860 | There's not a distinction between the talented and the untalented, the hardworking and the not hardworking.
00:16:05.860 | This is just a distinction between faithful and unfaithful people.
00:16:10.860 | That God's going to feed them, but the unfaithful, they will go hungry.
00:16:14.860 | "My servants shall drink, but they shall go thirsty."
00:16:18.860 | Right?
00:16:20.860 | So what does this tell us?
00:16:22.860 | Right?
00:16:24.860 | At the end of the day, our very sustenance is dependent upon His grace.
00:16:31.860 | Their food, their drink, their very essence of their joy is in God's hands.
00:16:43.860 | So when the nation of Israel was looking for their shalom, to be blessed by God,
00:16:48.860 | in the end, God says, "The only way that you're going to have shalom is to be right with God."
00:16:53.860 | And that's what this reminds us of.
00:16:56.860 | "But you shall cry for pain, of heart shall wail for breaking the spirit,
00:17:01.860 | and shall leave your name to my chosen for a curse, and the Lord will put you to death."
00:17:08.860 | Again, all of this is in God's sovereign hands.
00:17:13.860 | So above working hard, above investing in the right places,
00:17:18.860 | and networking with the right people,
00:17:21.860 | the most important thing for any child of God is that he is right with Him.
00:17:25.860 | So if you're not right with Him, it doesn't matter how hard you're working.
00:17:29.860 | It doesn't matter what kind of jobs you have, what major you have, and what tests you pass.
00:17:33.860 | For a child of God, if you're not right with God, there's nothing more important than to first get right with God.
00:17:40.860 | Because the very essence of our food, our drink, our joy, our life, is in God's sovereign hands.
00:17:47.860 | And that's what God is telling the nation of Israel.
00:17:50.860 | The Lord promises in chapter 65, 17, to create a new heaven and a new earth.
00:18:00.860 | What is the difference between the two, if there is any? What is this in description of?
00:18:04.860 | The new heaven and new earth, if you again study through the...
00:18:08.860 | We can make the distinction and say, well, the heaven is the unseen, and the earth is the seen.
00:18:13.860 | The material and the immaterial, right? Or this life or the afterlife.
00:18:17.860 | But generally speaking, new heaven and new earth basically is talking about all of God's creation.
00:18:23.860 | Seen and unseen.
00:18:25.860 | Physical and material.
00:18:28.860 | So, totality of creation.
00:18:31.860 | So, in other words, everything that went wrong at the fall is going to be restored at the end.
00:18:38.860 | Everything is going to be made new.
00:18:40.860 | Not just a portion, not just a part, but everything.
00:18:44.860 | So, that's what he means in chapter 65, verse 17.
00:18:49.860 | We see this again in 2 Peter 3, 13.
00:18:54.860 | Can somebody turn your Bible to 2 Peter 3, 13?
00:18:57.860 | [Pause]
00:19:01.860 | If you're there, can you just read it out loud for us?
00:19:04.860 | And then, if we can have somebody else turn their Bible to Revelations 21, 1.
00:19:10.860 | [Pause]
00:19:14.860 | Who's there? Okay.
00:19:16.860 | >> I'm 2 Peter 3, 13. But according to the promise, we are waiting for a new heaven and a new earth, to establish righteousness for all.
00:19:25.860 | >> Okay. So, again, Peter encourages the readers about the promise of the new heaven and a new earth
00:19:31.860 | as the motivation for why we ought to persevere through suffering, why we ought to live and pursue righteousness.
00:19:37.860 | Right?
00:19:38.860 | Revelation 21, 1.
00:19:42.860 | Okay.
00:19:43.860 | >> That I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth were passed away. The sea was no more.
00:19:51.860 | >> Okay. So, again, if you look at the end of the book of Revelation, the final state of human history is going to be the promise of a new heaven and a new earth.
00:20:00.860 | Right? So, everything that you and I know that has gone wrong, God is going to restore what He intended and He's going to make it even better.
00:20:07.860 | And so, when it talks about a new heaven and a new earth, it's always a promise of complete restoration.
00:20:13.860 | Right?
00:20:14.860 | [Pause]
00:20:18.860 | What is the description of the new heaven and a new earth?
00:20:21.860 | That was the second question.
00:20:26.860 | One of the first things it mentions in verse 20 is that infant will not die early and old men will live a long life.
00:20:32.860 | [Pause]
00:20:37.860 | I mean, considering the context, you know, of last weekend, you know, I can't help but to think about, you know, how, you know,
00:20:47.860 | when we're reading this text, and the promise from scripture that all of these horrendous things that human experience,
00:20:54.860 | and that's not the only thing, but obviously that, you know, hardship, suffering, pain, cancer,
00:21:02.860 | all of these things are results of a living in a fallen world.
00:21:07.860 | Right?
00:21:08.860 | And so, there's a cloud of darkness that hovers over all mankind.
00:21:13.860 | And you and I, even though we've been delivered spiritually, we're not home yet.
00:21:18.860 | Right?
00:21:19.860 | So, because we're not home, we also experience all of this.
00:21:23.860 | And so, he says that at the end, when he comes and he restores everything,
00:21:27.860 | it means all of these things, all of these things that we've suffered, all of these things that we watch other people suffering,
00:21:32.860 | all of these things, he's going to wipe away.
00:21:35.860 | Right?
00:21:36.860 | So, you know, the hope that we have for mankind is that no matter how bad it is, it's temporary.
00:21:42.860 | It's not permanent.
00:21:43.860 | And that's the hope that we have in Christ.
00:21:45.860 | No matter, you can imagine the worst possible scenario, the most painful thing you can possibly experience on this earth,
00:21:53.860 | but at the end of the day, it's temporary.
00:21:56.860 | Right?
00:21:57.860 | It's momentary.
00:21:58.860 | Because when he comes, he says he's going to wipe away all of this stuff.
00:22:01.860 | People will enjoy fruits of their labor.
00:22:03.860 | And that's one of the things...
00:22:05.860 | Sorry to interrupt, but the new heaven and new earth, are we going to be on the new heaven or new earth?
00:22:12.860 | But here's what I mean.
00:22:13.860 | When I speak to Jehovah Witness, I ask, you know, if you're not part of the 144,000, then why are you a Jehovah Witness?
00:22:21.860 | They're like the 144,000 are part of the new heaven, the new Jesus, and we good Jehovah Witness get to be on the new earth,
00:22:29.860 | which is called paradise earth.
00:22:31.860 | So, their hope is to make it to the new earth.
00:22:34.860 | So, we as Christians obviously don't believe that, but how do you explain the new heaven, new earth?
00:22:41.860 | I don't understand the whole totality of creation.
00:22:44.860 | Is it like new heaven, new earth?
00:22:47.860 | Is it two separate places where us Christians can have peace?
00:22:51.860 | New heaven and new earth, again, it depends on the context, but most of the time when the Bible describes new heaven and new earth,
00:22:57.860 | I don't think it's meant to be dissected as what is earth and what is, you know, what is new earth, what is new heaven.
00:23:04.860 | It's talking about material and immaterial, all the God of heaven, earth, and under the earth, right?
00:23:10.860 | He's talking about God is sovereign over everything, all of creation, things that you know, things that you don't know.
00:23:16.860 | So, when he's talking about new heaven and new earth, he's not saying that he's just going to make the earth new,
00:23:21.860 | he's saying that everything that you know that exists is going to be renewed.
00:23:25.860 | So, we can sit there and kind of like, well, there's a new heaven looks like this, a new earth looks like that.
00:23:30.860 | I mean, there is a millennial kingdom that, again, I don't want to get into tonight,
00:23:34.860 | but I don't think, at least in this context, that the reference is talking about, you know,
00:23:40.860 | this new heaven looks going to look like this and new earth is going to look like this.
00:23:43.860 | It's just in reference to all things. Instead of saying all things, he just says new heaven and new earth.
00:23:49.860 | [Audience member] But in the eternal state of the new heaven and new earth, there will be no more death, right?
00:23:57.860 | So, if there is an infant that will not die early, I mean, I'm really correct that there will be some death.
00:24:03.860 | [Ross] Yeah, okay. Good. You're paying attention.
00:24:07.860 | I didn't open up the can of worms because I didn't want to get into the millennial.
00:24:13.860 | I just said the end times because I'm just kind of lumping it all together.
00:24:17.860 | So, if you look at it, like, if we start dissecting and say, well, this is a description of after the great white throne judgment
00:24:24.860 | and then we're in eternity. So, if you read the commentaries, some of the commentaries,
00:24:29.860 | Douglas Moo believed that the initial part of it is in reference to eternity
00:24:35.860 | and then he gets back into talking about the description of the millennium.
00:24:39.860 | Okay, so I don't want to get too deep into that because then we're going to go into why does he believe this
00:24:44.860 | and dissect the words and I don't want to, I'm just going to leave it at this is the end times.
00:24:49.860 | Okay, but that's a good question. We can talk more about it later.
00:24:54.860 | Really, we're getting stuck on this, alright?
00:24:57.860 | [Audience] One more question. So, the text actually says new heavens
00:25:05.860 | and you know how Genesis 1, chapter 1, verse 1 says that the angel God created heavens and new earth.
00:25:13.860 | So, heavens, plural, I'm curious.
00:25:18.860 | Are there more than one heavens? Is that the question?
00:25:23.860 | [Audience] We can talk about all of them, but yeah, just noticing that it's heavens.
00:25:28.860 | Okay, well, I don't know about that particular reference, but if you look at the description of Yahweh, Elohim,
00:25:37.860 | it's in plural and it's not in singular.
00:25:41.860 | And the reason why it's in plural is that in the ancient nearest writings,
00:25:47.860 | it wasn't because there were like a lot of people look at that and say, "Oh, that's a reference to the Trinity."
00:25:51.860 | It actually was common outside of the Jewish writings.
00:25:55.860 | They would do that to show respect, right? Or for the purpose of emphasis.
00:26:00.860 | So, I don't know about that particular text, but it could just be for the purpose of emphasis that all heavens, all the earth, right?
00:26:07.860 | Not necessarily like multiple heavens or multiple earths.
00:26:12.860 | Just talking about the totality of everything.
00:26:16.860 | [Audience] Pastor Peter?
00:26:17.860 | Yes, we're going to, okay. I was trying so hard to move on. All right.
00:26:23.860 | [Audience] Just one last thing, and it's not really a question, but more to your comment there.
00:26:28.860 | You know, without going into all the details, isn't it true that as it relates to the end times,
00:26:35.860 | some of the things that Jehovah's Witnesses believe, it's not that different than actually what we believe.
00:26:40.860 | You know, there's a lot of differences in obviously what they believe about Jesus Christ,
00:26:44.860 | but in terms of the new heavens and the new earth, there's actually a lot of similarities.
00:26:48.860 | Yeah, I mean, we believe in a new heaven. I mean, it depends if you're a dispensationalist.
00:26:53.860 | Yeah, non-dispensationalists will disagree with that.
00:26:56.860 | But their difference is they believe that only a hundred, for literal 144,000 people are going to enter,
00:27:02.860 | and you have to earn your way into that. And so they don't know if they're going to earn it.
00:27:06.860 | They believe that they have the best chance.
00:27:09.860 | [Audience] Well, the 144 is already in the new heaven ruling, which is, it stopped like 1921 or 1914, whenever it was.
00:27:17.860 | Their hope now is to get to the new earth, which is what they call paradise earth.
00:27:21.860 | And I'm here wondering as a Christian, where am I going to be?
00:27:24.860 | Am I going to be in a new heaven, a new earth?
00:27:27.860 | And then your answer was, new heavens, new earth is the final state of mind for me,
00:27:33.860 | instead of me just, how did you come to that versus like...
00:27:37.860 | I don't think there's a need to make that distinction,
00:27:40.860 | because everyone who is genuinely in the new earth is going to be in the new heavens.
00:27:45.860 | So you're saying like, some people go to new heaven, some people go to new earth.
00:27:50.860 | That is not the Christian teaching. Okay?
00:27:52.860 | So if you're making a distinction between a millennium and the eternal state,
00:27:56.860 | the people who are entering into millennium is because they are Christians,
00:27:59.860 | and they are under a physical rule of Christ, or in that thousand year reign of Christ under the Israelites.
00:28:06.860 | But when that thing ends, everybody who is a genuine Christian in the thousand year reign will also enter into the new heaven.
00:28:13.860 | So there is no distinction like some go to new heaven, some go to new earth, and that's the final state.
00:28:17.860 | That's not the final state.
00:28:19.860 | The millennium is not the final state.
00:28:23.860 | A thousand year reign of Christ.
00:28:26.860 | [Audience] So when the Bible says after death comes judgment,
00:28:30.860 | like if I die tonight, just here is where we'll be?
00:28:33.860 | Just floating somewhere?
00:28:36.860 | Is this offline?
00:28:38.860 | Yeah, I mean, let me say this, and then we'll move on.
00:28:42.860 | I don't want to just get stuck here. Okay?
00:28:45.860 | We take the Bible literally, so when the Bible says to be absent in the body is to be present with Christ,
00:28:51.860 | and we know that that's exactly what's going to happen.
00:28:53.860 | But at the same time, when we die, the concept of, like, am I here or over there?
00:28:59.860 | Right?
00:29:00.860 | That's people who are limited, finite, in their physical body.
00:29:05.860 | Right?
00:29:06.860 | God is eternal.
00:29:07.860 | So is he here today or tomorrow or yesterday?
00:29:10.860 | The answer is yes.
00:29:12.860 | Right?
00:29:13.860 | So we're thinking, like, if I die, will I be with him then?
00:29:17.860 | When Jesus is same yesterday, today, and forever.
00:29:21.860 | He's outside of time.
00:29:23.860 | So we're trying to apply how you and I understand life in the context of the life that we're going to have eternity with him.
00:29:30.860 | In past, present, and future.
00:29:32.860 | So it's not, anything that we say about what the eternal life is going to look like, it's going to be a philosophical question.
00:29:38.860 | Right?
00:29:39.860 | Theologically, we say yes, that's what's going to happen.
00:29:41.860 | Well, how does, what does that look like?
00:29:44.860 | Then we start thinking about, philosophically, how do we understand that?
00:29:47.860 | Right?
00:29:48.860 | We can leave it at that.
00:29:51.860 | Alright, so let me move on.
00:29:52.860 | We can talk more about it in person, okay?
00:29:55.860 | Mmm.
00:30:05.860 | [Laughter]
00:30:08.860 | It's punishing us for not moving.
00:30:10.860 | Alright?
00:30:11.860 | [Laughter]
00:30:14.860 | Is it this?
00:30:15.860 | [Laughter]
00:30:20.860 | No, it's because he did it.
00:30:21.860 | [Laughter]
00:30:23.860 | You know, I think the battery for this is dead.
00:30:25.860 | Sorry.
00:30:26.860 | No, he did it.
00:30:29.860 | Okay, well, you guys can fill that in, or we can change the battery for this.
00:30:33.860 | It's the AAA.
00:30:36.860 | Thanks, Brian.
00:30:37.860 | Alright, thank you.
00:30:47.860 | No, just two, thank you.
00:30:49.860 | Tell me which is positive, I can't see it.
00:31:01.860 | That's the top.
00:31:05.860 | Okay.
00:31:20.860 | Alright, so in the new heaven and new earth, he said the Lord will know what they will need and answer even before they call.
00:31:26.860 | Right?
00:31:27.860 | And again, part of the reason why there is frustration, even in our daily prayer of life, is, again, part of it is,
00:31:33.860 | we're not intimately with the Lord.
00:31:36.860 | Right?
00:31:37.860 | We're here, not yet.
00:31:38.860 | So just like we have this physical body that we have to wrestle through, and one day we're going to be delivered,
00:31:43.860 | and we're going to be seeing him face to face, and so when that happens, even in our prayers,
00:31:48.860 | we say he's going to know us so intimately, we're going to know him so intimately, he won't answer.
00:31:52.860 | Right?
00:31:53.860 | So, it's interesting that part of living in a fallen world is that even our prayer life,
00:31:59.860 | even our intimacy with him isn't going to be exactly what it ought to be in eternity.
00:32:05.860 | And ultimately, there's going to be peace.
00:32:15.860 | If you look at verse 1, chapter 66, verse 1, it says,
00:32:21.860 | "Thus says the Lord, 'Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool.
00:32:25.860 | What is the house that you would build for me, and what is the place of my rest?'"
00:32:29.860 | So, in context of verse 1 and 2, what is he saying?
00:32:39.860 | I mean, God has the throne, his throne on earth, and the earth is his footstool.
00:32:47.860 | What can you possibly add that he doesn't already have?
00:32:52.860 | Right?
00:32:53.860 | So, basically, what he's telling the nation of Israel is,
00:32:56.860 | "You're working hard to do all of these things, but at the end of the day, he owns everything.
00:33:00.860 | The earth itself is his footstool."
00:33:02.860 | So, how can you possibly think that what God needs is your effort, is your strength, your money?
00:33:09.860 | Right?
00:33:10.860 | What God wants is not looking for talent, he's not looking for ability.
00:33:15.860 | Right?
00:33:16.860 | He says he's looking for a humble and contrite heart, broken people,
00:33:20.860 | a vessel that he could wield and use for his purpose.
00:33:26.860 | So, the best thing that we can offer up to him is a life that's easily moldable, obedient.
00:33:34.860 | When he says, "Left, go left." When he says, "Right, go right."
00:33:37.860 | Right?
00:33:38.860 | Humble and submitted, so that if he's a potter and we're the clay,
00:33:42.860 | the best thing we can offer up to him is a clay that's easily moldable.
00:33:46.860 | Right?
00:33:47.860 | You come to him like, "Well, you know, I'm going to be useful for this."
00:33:50.860 | And he says, "Well, how can you possibly add the earth is my footstool?"
00:33:54.860 | And that was the problem with the nation of Israel.
00:33:57.860 | In their pride, they were coming before Yahweh and saying, "We're doing all of this for you."
00:34:02.860 | Right?
00:34:03.860 | "Why aren't you answering our prayers? Why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you doing that?"
00:34:06.860 | He said, "But in reality, what God is looking for is a broken and contrite heart."
00:34:12.860 | How does God look at sacrifices?
00:34:16.860 | Those who give false sacrifices and worship are no different than any other murderer or idol worshippers.
00:34:23.860 | Verse 3, "He who slaughters an ox is like one who kills a man.
00:34:28.860 | He who sacrifices a lamb, like one who breaks a dog's neck.
00:34:31.860 | He who presents a grain offering, like one who offers pig's blood."
00:34:35.860 | All of these things are, again, in some form, an act of worship, and yet God says, "That's not worship.
00:34:43.860 | You're just killing animals. You're like a murderer."
00:34:50.860 | He says that there's going to be such delusion in false worship that those who persecute the righteous will do it claiming that they are glorifying God.
00:34:57.860 | Verse 5, "Hear the word of the Lord, you who tremble at His word.
00:35:01.860 | Your brothers who hate you and cast you out for My name's sake have said, 'Let the Lord be glorified that we may see your joy,
00:35:08.860 | but it is they who shall be put to shame.'" What does that sound like?
00:35:16.860 | The Jewish leaders, right, who crucified Christ, thinking that they're doing God a favor.
00:35:22.860 | So think about just how hardened and just how fallen that they were, that they're crucifying the Son of God, and they're all doing it in the name of Yahweh.
00:35:32.860 | And that's exactly what God says, that they're going to be so delusional in where they stand before God,
00:35:39.860 | and yet they created this hierarchy of who's right with God and who's not, and who's righteous and who's not.
00:35:45.860 | And when the true Messiah comes, they're completely off. They weren't just simply out of order.
00:35:52.860 | They didn't just get, you know, you had the Sanhedrin and the Pharisees, and say, "You know what?
00:35:58.860 | You have a few people who are not in the right place." Right?
00:36:02.860 | He didn't just come and just kind of reorganize. He came and looked at the whole system, and He said,
00:36:07.860 | "Everybody on this row, everybody who's pursuing this, you guys are all wrong.
00:36:13.860 | They were the ones blaspheming His name." Right?
00:36:16.860 | Everybody that they looked up to, the teachers, the scribes, the Pharisees, the leaders of Israel,
00:36:23.860 | they were the ones who were blaspheming the name of God. So they weren't just a little bit off.
00:36:28.860 | They completely, from beginning to the end.
00:36:33.860 | And then they crucify the Messiah that they've been preaching and teaching for hundreds of years,
00:36:39.860 | and they all did it saying that they're glorifying God.
00:36:42.860 | That's how delusional they were. Again, that's why I think false worship is so dangerous.
00:36:50.860 | That's why sometimes I think the people who are the most delusional
00:36:55.860 | are religious people who don't have a personal relationship with Christ.
00:37:01.860 | People who are in the church, who've heard the gospel, who go through the motion,
00:37:05.860 | and do all of that stuff, and they don't have a personal relationship with Christ.
00:37:10.860 | Because we kind of feel like we're on the boat that's safe.
00:37:16.860 | At least the non-Christians know. They don't believe, and they know where they stand,
00:37:19.860 | whether they believe or don't believe. But the people who are, I think the biggest tragedy
00:37:24.860 | will be in the church, who think that they're going to be meeting their Savior,
00:37:28.860 | and realize at the end that they're going to be in the wrong line.
00:37:32.860 | They're in the judgment line. Right? And that's what He's warning the nation of Israel.
00:37:40.860 | What are they referring to?
00:37:44.860 | He goes into this elaborate description in verse 7,
00:37:48.860 | "Before she was in labor, she gave birth. Before her pain came upon her,
00:37:51.860 | she delivered a son. Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such a thing?"
00:37:55.860 | In other words, that this lady was pregnant, and all of a sudden, she's going to give birth.
00:38:00.860 | Verse 9, "Shall I bring to the point of birth, and not cause to bring forth?"
00:38:04.860 | In other words, God has been working through history,
00:38:07.860 | and He didn't set all of this up to just at the end, just kind of forget it,
00:38:11.860 | and sweep it under the rug. Whether it was for the salvation of Israel,
00:38:15.860 | salvation of His people, or for their judgment.
00:38:19.860 | God has been carefully orchestrating all of this to fulfill His purpose.
00:38:24.860 | He's not going to bring it up to that point, and then just say, "Forget it." Right?
00:38:29.860 | So that's what He's referring to. He said, "Shall I impregnate the history of mankind,
00:38:35.860 | and at the end just kind of forget it?" In other words,
00:38:37.860 | everything that He has said, He's going to fulfill. Everything.
00:38:45.860 | How does He describe His second coming?
00:38:48.860 | "To those who justify themselves, those are the ones who will not be justified."
00:38:52.860 | Verse 17, "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens,
00:38:58.860 | following one in the midst, eating pigs' flesh and abomination,
00:39:01.860 | and mice shall come to an end together, declares the Lord."
00:39:05.860 | They will not be justified.
00:39:08.860 | Those who stand before God and feeling like they don't need to be justified,
00:39:11.860 | they are the ones who are going to be guilty.
00:39:14.860 | So what does this mean?
00:39:16.860 | The only way to be justified before God is to recognize our sin and repent.
00:39:23.860 | To receive the forgiveness of God.
00:39:27.860 | And obviously all of this is in preparation for the coming Messiah.
00:39:32.860 | So imagine if you're reading this and saying, "Those who justify themselves,
00:39:35.860 | the judgment is coming." Then how do we get justified?
00:39:39.860 | That's the big question that they should have had.
00:39:43.860 | If all this religious worship and all of these things,
00:39:46.860 | if this doesn't justify us, then what's going to justify us?
00:39:50.860 | Almost like a mystery. And that's what Paul says, right?
00:39:53.860 | The mystery of the Gospel was revealed in Christ.
00:39:56.860 | That He kind of took us to that point and kind of like,
00:39:59.860 | "Well, He's coming. Well, what is He going to do?"
00:40:02.860 | He's going to justify our sins.
00:40:06.860 | "And all the nations will gather together and see His glory."
00:40:10.860 | In other words, His promises that He's making to the Kingdom of Israel
00:40:13.860 | is going to be opened up to the rest of the world.
00:40:16.860 | And it's the Gentiles that will be the ones declaring His glory.
00:40:20.860 | And then eventually God's going to use them to bring Israel back.
00:40:26.860 | We've been studying through the book of Romans.
00:40:29.860 | We're almost there. We're not quite there yet.
00:40:31.860 | But when we get to chapter 9, this is exactly what He's going to fulfill.
00:40:34.860 | Romans chapter 9, 10, and 11 is the fulfillment of this particular passage.
00:40:39.860 | There's going to be a hardening of the heart of Israel momentarily.
00:40:43.860 | And then we're living right now in the period of the Gentiles, the Church Age.
00:40:48.860 | But when that period is full, He said that Israel is going to be regrafted in.
00:40:53.860 | So this is what that is in reference to.
00:40:56.860 | So right now, it's not the Jews. It's not the literal people of God or the nation of Israel.
00:41:00.860 | But the Gentiles are the ones building the churches.
00:41:03.860 | But eventually, through the Gentiles, revival is going to break out in the nation of Israel.
00:41:08.860 | And they're going to be brought back. So that's what that passage is.
00:41:10.860 | And Romans chapter 9, 10, and 11 describes this in detail.
00:41:18.860 | And what is the ultimate purpose of this restoration?
00:41:23.860 | They're all going to come and worship Him. That's the end product.
00:41:31.860 | Worship. Worship is the final purpose.
00:41:35.860 | All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
00:41:39.860 | That's what has gone wrong.
00:41:42.860 | Instead of giving glory to God, instead of seeking His glory, instead of worshipping His glory,
00:41:47.860 | even at our best, we're always wrestling with our glory and His glory.
00:41:52.860 | Our will and His will.
00:41:54.860 | And that's, again, it's a description of the fall of mankind.
00:41:58.860 | At the end, when God restores, He's going to bring everybody back.
00:42:02.860 | For what purpose? To come and worship.
00:42:04.860 | He's going to reveal His glory that we've fallen short of.
00:42:07.860 | But when we are in the presence of His full glory, we're going to break up into worship.
00:42:13.860 | So, it's just, right now, we wrestle with smaller worship.
00:42:18.860 | You know, competing worship.
00:42:21.860 | Whether it's sports or whatever it is that we get wrapped up in.
00:42:25.860 | Again, none of this stuff is necessarily wrong.
00:42:28.860 | But if we're not careful, it can compete with God's glory.
00:42:31.860 | It can compete with His worship.
00:42:33.860 | But He says, at the end, when His glory is fully revealed, there's going to be no competition.
00:42:39.860 | All the nations are going to come.
00:42:42.860 | What we're going to be doing in eternity is to give Him worship.
00:42:46.860 | So, if you don't know the ecstasy of really, truly worshipping God,
00:42:53.860 | and your idea of worship is singing hymns, clapping, you know what I mean?
00:42:59.860 | It's just boring.
00:43:01.860 | There's nothing to look forward to in eternity.
00:43:04.860 | But I think every Christian knows.
00:43:08.860 | Every genuine Christian knows.
00:43:09.860 | Because what a Christian is, is somebody who's seen the glory of Christ.
00:43:14.860 | Right?
00:43:15.860 | That's what a Christian is.
00:43:16.860 | And that's why you repent, and that's why you come to church.
00:43:19.860 | Hopefully.
00:43:20.860 | Right?
00:43:21.860 | So, a genuine believer is one who has seen the glory of Christ,
00:43:25.860 | and now desires that for the rest of eternity.
00:43:28.860 | So, a non-Christian, I don't care what he says, I don't care how much he knows,
00:43:32.860 | if they haven't tasted the goodness of God, they have not seen His glory,
00:43:37.860 | none of these things are going to be attractive to you.
00:43:41.860 | None of these things.
00:43:43.860 | Promise of gathering of all the nations for the purpose of worshipping God,
00:43:48.860 | when worshipping God today is not attractive,
00:43:51.860 | why would this be attractive?
00:43:53.860 | Why would a greater revelation of His glory be attractive to a non-Christian?
00:44:00.860 | Heaven wouldn't be attractive to a non-Christian.
00:44:03.860 | Right?
00:44:04.860 | It would only be attractive to somebody who's tasted and seen a glimpse of His glory.
00:44:10.860 | I think for every Christian, again as we wrap up, for every Christian,
00:44:16.860 | the hungering and thirsting that we have inside of our hearts isn't for meaning.
00:44:24.860 | Right?
00:44:25.860 | Isn't for relationships.
00:44:27.860 | Isn't for safety and peace.
00:44:29.860 | In my opinion, it's not even love.
00:44:33.860 | I don't think that that's at the core of who we are, and that's what drives us.
00:44:37.860 | Because we were created for the purpose of glorifying Christ, glorifying God.
00:44:43.860 | That's at the core of our basic needs.
00:44:46.860 | Remember, we hear things, cliche things like,
00:44:49.860 | every human being has a God-shaped heart that only God can fill.
00:44:53.860 | And I believe that that is the case.
00:44:55.860 | But that God-shaped heart, God-shaped place,
00:44:58.860 | whatever it is that mankind has fallen short of,
00:45:01.860 | is a place that is reserved for His glory.
00:45:06.860 | Right?
00:45:08.860 | So, again, to attract people to the church with anything else
00:45:15.860 | other than a greater revelation of His glory is a lie.
00:45:21.860 | Because that's not what God promises.
00:45:24.860 | God doesn't promise a purpose and safety.
00:45:27.860 | In fact, sometimes God will cause you not to have safety
00:45:32.860 | for the purpose of weeding things out,
00:45:34.860 | so that you can have a greater glimpse of His glory.
00:45:37.860 | Right?
00:45:38.860 | In fact, sometimes you will feel rejected and unloved,
00:45:43.860 | so that you can see that there's only one place and one person
00:45:47.860 | that will give you true meaning.
00:45:50.860 | So God didn't promise all of that.
00:45:52.860 | God didn't promise friendship.
00:45:53.860 | God didn't promise safety.
00:45:54.860 | God didn't promise a good job.
00:45:56.860 | Right?
00:45:57.860 | So, whether it's us, whether it's us preaching the gospel,
00:46:00.860 | or whether it's the church as a whole,
00:46:01.860 | if we promise anything else,
00:46:03.860 | if we do anything else in the church other than a greater revelation of His glory,
00:46:08.860 | then the church is not representing what God represents in the scripture.
00:46:13.860 | I think a Christian who is going to persevere is a person
00:46:17.860 | who is fixated on the coming of Christ and His glory,
00:46:21.860 | and hungering and thirsting,
00:46:22.860 | that can only be satisfied when you meet Him.
00:46:25.860 | Right?
00:46:26.860 | When you meet Christ.
00:46:27.860 | And if that's what's driving you,
00:46:29.860 | that's what's going to cause you to persevere.
00:46:31.860 | But if that's not what's driving you,
00:46:32.860 | at some point, your disappointment in church and people's circumstance
00:46:36.860 | is going to cause you to look for it somewhere else.
00:46:40.860 | But again, as we wrap up the book of Isaiah,
00:46:43.860 | we'll do a final study next week.
00:46:45.860 | At the end of the human history, this is what God promises.
00:46:50.860 | Right?
00:46:51.860 | Look at the book of Revelation.
00:46:53.860 | The end times is all the nations gathering at His throne,
00:46:57.860 | worshiping, bowing down,
00:46:59.860 | "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty."
00:47:05.860 | That's what we're going to be doing for eternity.
00:47:07.860 | Right?
00:47:08.860 | And so that's why we have quiet time.
00:47:11.860 | That's why we encourage you to get into the Bible.
00:47:13.860 | It's not so that good Christians read the Bible.
00:47:15.860 | The Word of God contains revelation of His glory.
00:47:19.860 | So the more you get a glimpse of His glory,
00:47:21.860 | there's going to be a greater hungering and thirsting for that glory.
00:47:24.860 | And that's what causes you to seek Him out.
00:47:28.860 | Right?
00:47:30.860 | So quiet time is not about, like, "I did it" or "I didn't do it."
00:47:34.860 | Getting bits and pieces, getting a taste of who He is,
00:47:38.860 | every single day, that causes you to continue to seek Him out.
00:47:43.860 | All right. So again, next week we're going to wrap up the study.
00:47:51.860 | You know, every song I sing, I just assume you guys know because it's been around for 30 years.