back to index01-13-16 - Wed Bible Study
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we thank you for giving us this evening. Help us, Lord God, to 00:00:24.000 |
glean through your word, through our studies, through our 00:00:28.000 |
fellowship, sharing, praying that the spiritual 00:00:32.000 |
things would become more and more real to us. We pray for your 00:00:36.000 |
grace to continue to guide us. We pray that your living word would have power over 00:00:44.000 |
Father God that your Holy Spirit would soften our hearts, 00:00:52.000 |
We pray for insight as we glean through the different 00:00:56.000 |
prophecies, what it means and how to apply it in our lives. 00:01:00.000 |
We pray Father God that you would give us a greater glimpse of your grace, 00:01:04.000 |
your love, your righteousness and judgment. That 00:01:08.000 |
our view of who you are, Lord God, would not be dictated by 00:01:12.000 |
the generation or the people that are around us, but by your living 00:01:16.000 |
word. And so we ask Lord God that your Holy Spirit would lead and guide us. In Jesus' name 00:01:28.000 |
first chapters 1-12 it was a primary indictment 00:01:32.000 |
against the nation of Israel. And then remember we talked about in chapter 13 00:01:36.000 |
there's prophecies about the coming Christ. And then 00:01:40.000 |
we start getting into the prophecies about the oppressors. 00:01:44.000 |
So from here all the way to chapter 17 he's going to be 00:01:48.000 |
naming nation by nation, actually all the way up to chapter 23. 00:01:56.000 |
two more weeks for this session and then we're taking two 00:02:00.000 |
weeks off. During that week I'm going to be out in India and then when I come back I'm going to have one 00:02:04.000 |
week off and then we'll come back the week after that. Some of you guys 00:02:08.000 |
asked about your small group. Again when we redo our small group for the second 00:02:12.000 |
session, again we're going to take the survey 00:02:16.000 |
and to see if we want to stay in that group or we're going to mix this up. We'll talk about it 00:02:20.000 |
at that time. Just for some of you guys who's been asking. 00:02:24.000 |
We're going to probably take most likely three sessions, possibly 00:02:28.000 |
up to four depending, but at least three sessions. So next session and then 00:02:32.000 |
one more after that at least. And then again possibly more. 00:02:36.000 |
So what I want to do is we're going to do this week and we're going to do one more week 00:02:40.000 |
and then the last one before going to break we're going to take some time to review. 00:02:44.000 |
We're going to be probably around chapter 22, 21-22 by the time 00:02:48.000 |
we finish. And so the last week instead of going further we want to just 00:02:52.000 |
kind of go back and review and then we'll review it again. I know that 00:02:56.000 |
some of you guys may already feel kind of like, man I'm lost. 00:03:00.000 |
It's like one nation after another, one city after another. 00:03:04.000 |
What's going on? And like I said, if you don't take time to really dig through 00:03:08.000 |
what's going on, after a while it's going to sound the same. Judgment is coming. 00:03:12.000 |
Judgment is coming. Judgment is coming. Humble yourself. Humble yourself. 00:03:16.000 |
So we want to dig through the details and see what 00:03:20.000 |
specific applications. And so whenever, remember we talked about the prophecies 00:03:24.000 |
like what's going on historically? How is it fulfilled in Christ? 00:03:28.000 |
And we don't want to milk it either. We don't want to like, oh we see Christ here, we see 00:03:36.000 |
three interpretations. Like immediate, Christ and then eternal. Especially when we're talking 00:03:40.000 |
about the end times. So what was fulfilled in His first 00:03:44.000 |
coming? What was fulfilled in His second coming? And what's going on historically? 00:03:48.000 |
The section that we're looking at today, the prophecies 00:03:56.000 |
clear what historical event is taking place. So if you happen to read a commentary or you 00:04:04.000 |
study, like Bibles that you have and you probably have notes on the side, 00:04:08.000 |
especially when it comes to this. Don't read that and say, 00:04:12.000 |
oh that's this. Because if you read five different 00:04:16.000 |
commentaries, all five of them are going to have a different bend on all of that. So don't 00:04:20.000 |
assume that what's being said in your commentaries or in 00:04:24.000 |
your study Bibles, like that's the answer. I read that so now I got the answer. 00:04:28.000 |
So we want to dig through specifically whatever opinion that you may 00:04:32.000 |
have that is based on the study of the text that you read. Not because 00:04:40.000 |
especially right now when we go to chapter 14 and on, 00:04:44.000 |
obviously the nations are named, but what specific 00:04:48.000 |
event is he referring to? Nobody knows that for sure. 00:04:52.000 |
They're just taking an educated guess. So we'll cover that when we get there. 00:05:00.000 |
verse 1 and 2, as we are being introduced, what specific 00:05:04.000 |
prophecy is given to Israel in verse 1 and 2? 00:05:12.000 |
So again, we've been talking about chapter 12, 00:05:16.000 |
that God is going to judge them for all these different sins and he gets very specific 00:05:20.000 |
about what sins that God is judging them for, how He's going to 00:05:24.000 |
bring judgment upon them. And then we looked at chapter 13, how that restoration 00:05:28.000 |
is going to happen. Through the stump, there's going to be 00:05:32.000 |
a seed that's going to be coming from that, obviously talking about the Messiah. 00:05:36.000 |
And so now, before He goes into the judgment of the nations, 00:05:40.000 |
He talks about how Israel is going to be restored. They will be 00:05:44.000 |
brought back into their own land in Jerusalem. 00:05:52.000 |
about how not only are they going to be restored, 00:05:56.000 |
it says that all the other nations are going to come and attach themselves to this nation. 00:06:04.000 |
be the ruler. So it's not like they're just kind of joining. Israel is going to have 00:06:08.000 |
their place of rule and all these other nations are going to attach themselves because 00:06:12.000 |
they're going to be the superpower. And then finally, 00:06:16.000 |
they will take captive those who are their captors and rule over them. 00:06:20.000 |
So the fortunes are going to turn and Israel is going to be the 00:06:24.000 |
supernation and the ones who oppress them are actually going to be serving 00:06:36.000 |
and promises like this all over the Old Testament, all over the prophecies. 00:06:40.000 |
So whenever we talk about God's restoration of Israel 00:06:44.000 |
they have two schools of thought. Obviously if you 00:06:48.000 |
went to Westminster, if you're part of a Presbyterian 00:06:52.000 |
Confessionally Covenant Church, they're going to say that all of this 00:06:56.000 |
was fulfilled in the church. All of this is referenced to 00:07:00.000 |
spiritually the church. You are not at a Confessionally Reformed 00:07:04.000 |
Church. You are at a Progressive Dispensational 00:07:08.000 |
Church if you are asking specifically. And I do 00:07:12.000 |
believe that Israel has a place. So when you think about 00:07:16.000 |
the prophecies about God's restoration of Israel, what 00:07:20.000 |
part do you think can be--look at that and say 00:07:36.000 |
In history, was Israel restored after the captivity? 00:07:40.000 |
Yes, right, under Cyrus they came back. A remnant, 00:07:44.000 |
a very small portion of them came back and they built the Second Temple. 00:07:48.000 |
In fact we have two minor prophets who actually preached 00:07:52.000 |
during that period. So that happened. They were brought back into their own land, 00:07:56.000 |
to Jerusalem. So obviously restoration happened because they came back to their land. 00:08:00.000 |
Other nations came and attached themselves to Israel. 00:08:16.000 |
No, it didn't happen. Right? When Israel came back did they become a 00:08:20.000 |
superpower and everybody said we have to be part of Israel? Did that happen? No, that didn't happen. 00:08:24.000 |
In Israel, did they rule over the other nations? 00:08:28.000 |
Did they end up conquering and become the superpower where everybody else served them? 00:08:32.000 |
No, right? In fact, remember what happens, they come back 00:08:36.000 |
to Israel and the temple that they build is so pathetic, 00:08:40.000 |
physically speaking, that the younger ones are rejoicing 00:08:44.000 |
in tears because they, "Oh, look at our temple, we have our own land back!" And then the people 00:08:48.000 |
who remember the First Temple, what were they doing? They were weeping because it would 00:08:52.000 |
look so pathetic compared to the First Temple that was destroyed. So they remember 00:08:56.000 |
the judgment that came upon the nation of Israel. So 00:09:00.000 |
yes, they came back to their land. Yes, they possessed the land at least 00:09:04.000 |
for a period at that time, right? And then they get destroyed again 00:09:16.000 |
Can you see this being fulfilled in the Church? 00:09:24.000 |
When the Catholic Church was the power in Europe, 00:09:28.000 |
and all the other kings ended up bowing down to them. But here it says 00:09:32.000 |
the captives, those who were oppressed them, you know, 00:09:36.000 |
the fortunes have changed, they became the superpower, right? Now again, you're not 00:09:40.000 |
going to get the answer from this alone. But again, I don't believe that this was fulfilled in the 00:09:44.000 |
Church. That this was a prophecy specific to the nation of Israel. 00:09:52.000 |
How does the world respond? So again, in the immediate application, we're talking 00:09:56.000 |
about the Babylonians. Remember we talked about, obviously they were the physical 00:10:00.000 |
Babylonians, but by the time this prophecy is being written, the Babylonians are not 00:10:04.000 |
the superpower yet. Right? It's the Assyrians. But the 00:10:12.000 |
physical nation, typically in the Bible, basically 00:10:16.000 |
it describes a rebellion of mankind, the world. Right? 00:10:20.000 |
In application. So when Babylon falls, what was 00:10:24.000 |
the response? It says in verse 7, "Everybody rejoices." 00:10:32.000 |
Because the oppressor has been humbled. So again, no one benefited 00:10:44.000 |
part that I'm going to just kind of set up before we get into it. So beginning from 00:10:52.000 |
fall of Satan. Verse 9, "Sheol beneath is stirred up to 00:10:56.000 |
meet you when you come. It rouses the shades to greet you, all who are 00:11:00.000 |
leaders of the earth. It raises from their thrones all who are kings 00:11:04.000 |
of nations." Okay? Now that's just my take on it, and I'm going 00:11:08.000 |
to explain why, and I'm going to tell you some issues 00:11:12.000 |
that are going on here. Okay? Before we get into the next section, remember I told you 00:11:24.000 |
Right? Remember I told you that last week before you guys left, it kind of takes some time 00:11:28.000 |
to look into that. If you look at verse 12 all the way to 00:11:36.000 |
of this being Lucifer, depending on which era 00:11:40.000 |
of human history that you look at, the early Church Fathers universally 00:11:44.000 |
believed that this was in reference to the fall of Satan, Lucifer. 00:11:48.000 |
Right? But during the period of the Reformation, the 00:11:52.000 |
Reformers kind of reversed that, and their opinion changed on 00:11:56.000 |
this verse. We are probably more influenced by the Reformation 00:12:00.000 |
than we are the early Church Fathers. Right? So depending on which commentary 00:12:04.000 |
you read. So if you read, if any of you, I doubt 00:12:08.000 |
if you do, anybody here uses the King James or the 00:12:12.000 |
New King James? Oh you do? Okay, so you're one. 00:12:16.000 |
Anybody else? There was a period when King James and New King James was popular, but 00:12:20.000 |
not so much anymore. Right? King James and New King James is the only 00:12:24.000 |
version of the Bible that actually translates that morning star 00:12:32.000 |
Lucifer. Okay, now I'm going to explain that in a little bit, why it's translated that way. 00:12:36.000 |
All of your other translations just basically say, it says day star. What does 00:12:52.000 |
Morning. Okay, so day star, star of morning, right? 00:13:00.000 |
King James is the only one, King James and New King James is the only one that says 00:13:04.000 |
Lucifer. Okay, so again, because there is a discussion 00:13:08.000 |
on whether it is referring to Lucifer or not, and I'm going to 00:13:16.000 |
translation to think that, again, that this is referenced to 00:13:20.000 |
Lucifer's fall. I'm not going to go into too much detail, but just kind of giving you a heads up. 00:13:24.000 |
In the end it doesn't matter either way, it doesn't change the meaning of this text, but 00:13:32.000 |
This passage, the description of the judgment of Lucifer, 00:13:36.000 |
again that's my take on it. Consider carefully the detailed description of his 00:13:40.000 |
rebellion against God and how that is reflected in the rebellion of 00:13:48.000 |
Pride of the Day Star. I mean, not he's called. 00:13:52.000 |
Right? The judgment is coming upon him because of the pride of 00:14:00.000 |
is a Latin word. That's not a Hebrew word, it's not a Greek word, it's just an English word. 00:14:12.000 |
is not necessarily his name, it's just his title or his description of who he is. 00:14:20.000 |
it's described in verse 12, "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, Son of 00:14:28.000 |
again, assuming that he is Satan that we're referring to, not just a 00:14:36.000 |
nature was to shine. Right? What is he supposed to shine? 00:14:44.000 |
So every creation, right? Every creation is created 00:14:48.000 |
in the image of God for the purpose of bringing glory to his name. 00:14:52.000 |
Right? So Lucifer was the highest of the creation. 00:14:56.000 |
Meaning that of all the things that were created that was to magnify 00:15:00.000 |
God, Lucifer was the greatest of all the creation. 00:15:08.000 |
Right? Instead of glorifying God, what does he want to do? 00:15:12.000 |
Right. He wants, he sees the glory of God and he wants some of that. 00:15:16.000 |
He wants to elevate himself and that's a description of his fall in verse 12. 00:15:20.000 |
It's his desire to elevate himself is what leads the judgment 00:15:28.000 |
it says, "He desires to ascend above the stars of God," meaning creation. 00:15:36.000 |
be above everything that he sees. He desired to be king 00:16:00.000 |
Right? So instead of being a part of the creation 00:16:08.000 |
He wants some of that glory. Right? Exactly like it says in Romans 00:16:12.000 |
chapter 1. Instead of giving God the glory, instead of giving the credit to Him, 00:16:16.000 |
they created things in their own image and then worshipped it. 00:16:20.000 |
Right? They worshipped themselves. And that's the fall 00:16:36.000 |
that they think will fit this. Maybe the closest that they can come 00:16:40.000 |
to somebody who's elevated himself that everybody hated and everybody rejoiced 00:16:44.000 |
when they fell is possibly the king of Assyria. But even then 00:16:48.000 |
he said it doesn't fit quite well. So I'm not going to get into guessing 00:16:52.000 |
that maybe it's him, maybe it's some other person because there's no point 00:16:56.000 |
because we won't know for sure. Okay? But again, I believe spiritually 00:17:00.000 |
speaking, we've been talking about end times and I think it fits 00:17:08.000 |
this is because of the judgment that it speaks of. Right? 00:17:12.000 |
He's brought Lo to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit. 00:17:20.000 |
possibly ascend. Right? Which is God. You can't go beyond God 00:17:28.000 |
But instead, the judgment is he's sent as low as he can go is to Sheol. 00:17:32.000 |
Right? So it's kind of like extreme. Extreme opposites. 00:17:36.000 |
This is where he wanted to go and that's where he's going to end up going. 00:17:48.000 |
Instead of receiving honor, right? It's exactly 00:17:56.000 |
sees his fall, instead of giving him the glory, they're going to say, "That's the guy who 00:18:00.000 |
ruled us. That's the guy who pressed us." So exact opposite. So you see the contrast 00:18:04.000 |
between what he wants and what's actually going to happen. 00:18:08.000 |
There's going to be no grave to venerate him. 00:18:12.000 |
It talks about how all the other kings, when they die, they have graves 00:18:16.000 |
but this one, when he falls, there's nothing to venerate him. 00:18:20.000 |
And there's no offspring to continue his name. 00:18:30.000 |
So I want to show you a few verses that talks about the fall of Satan. 00:18:34.000 |
Luke chapter 10, 18 it says, "And he said to them, 'I saw 00:18:38.000 |
Satan fall like lightning from heaven.'" Again that's in Luke's description. 00:18:42.000 |
Revelation 12, 7-12, it's kind of a longer passage 00:18:46.000 |
but we will read it together. "And now war arose 00:18:50.000 |
in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels 00:18:54.000 |
fought back, but he was defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 00:18:58.000 |
And a dragon, a great dragon, was thrown down, that ancient serpent 00:19:02.000 |
who is called the devil and Satan. The deceiver of the whole world, he was 00:19:06.000 |
thrown down to earth and his angels were thrown down with him. 00:19:10.000 |
And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, 'Now the salvation, the power, and the kingdom of our 00:19:14.000 |
God, and the authority of His Christ has come. For the accuser of His brothers has 00:19:18.000 |
been thrown down who accuses them day and night before our God. And they have 00:19:22.000 |
conquered Him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. 00:19:26.000 |
For they loved not their lives even unto death. Therefore rejoice 00:19:30.000 |
O heavens and you who dwell in them. But woe to you O earth and sea for the devil 00:19:34.000 |
has come down to you in great wrath because he knows that his time 00:19:38.000 |
is short.'" Okay, so again both of these describes how 00:19:42.000 |
elevated he was. And then when he was cast down he took a third 00:19:50.000 |
And then Ezekiel 28, 11, 13, "Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, 00:19:54.000 |
'Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre.'" Okay, and this is 00:19:58.000 |
another situation where they're referring to the king, but clearly it's not 00:20:02.000 |
talking about a physical, only about a physical historical king. "And say 00:20:06.000 |
to him, 'Thus says the Lord God, you were the signet of perfection, full 00:20:10.000 |
of wisdom and perfect in beauty.'" Right? There is no human being 00:20:14.000 |
that can be described that way after the fall. That's the only person that this 00:20:18.000 |
can be referring to is an angel. Right? But he was of perfection. 00:20:22.000 |
Clearly he's not talking about Christ because he falls. Right? 00:20:26.000 |
"You were in Eden, the Garden of God, and every precious stone was your covering, 00:20:30.000 |
sardius, topaz, diamond, beryl, oinks, jasper, 00:20:34.000 |
sapphire, emerald, and carbrinkle," whatever that is. 00:20:38.000 |
What is that? Do you know what that is? It's like a ruby? 00:20:42.000 |
Okay. "And crafted in gold were your settings and your 00:20:46.000 |
engravings, and on that day that you were created 00:20:50.000 |
they were prepared." So again, if you look at the passages, especially in Revelation 00:20:54.000 |
Ezekiel, it describes Satan as highest as you can be, as perfect 00:21:02.000 |
falls from there from grace and he gets kicked out of Heaven and now he's 00:21:06.000 |
ruling the earth. The god of this age is Satan. Right? 00:21:10.000 |
And so this passage we look at, when he gets judged, he's going to 00:21:14.000 |
be sent down all the way down to Sheol. So it's a description of 00:21:22.000 |
down, all that he ruled are going to, instead of, he's trying 00:21:26.000 |
so hard to get all the earth to glorify him, but when 00:21:30.000 |
the judgment comes it's going to be exactly the opposite. That's the god of this age that 00:21:34.000 |
they're going to be mocking him. Right? And that's the description that we see. 00:21:38.000 |
Now I'm not going to get too deep into it. I don't think there's any 00:21:42.000 |
strong argument to say yes or no, but it just to me 00:21:46.000 |
it seems like in context he's referring to the end times. 00:21:50.000 |
Right? And the description of how high he was and how low he's going to 00:21:54.000 |
go, it sounds a lot like what we see in the other texts of satanic 00:22:02.000 |
What does verse 24 say about the certainty of God's promises 00:22:06.000 |
of restoration and judgment? So if you notice in 00:22:22.000 |
planned so shall it be, and I have purposed so shall it stand." 00:22:34.000 |
bring strength to what we're saying, right? You don't say, "I'm going to do it." No, I swear 00:22:38.000 |
I'm going to do it. Right? It's to kind of put emphasis. 00:22:42.000 |
Right? Trust me. Right? I'm going to do it. It's more 00:22:46.000 |
of a determination so that the person who's hearing would have more confidence in what 00:22:50.000 |
you're saying. Right? Now why does God need to swear? He doesn't need to 00:22:54.000 |
swear by anybody. If God says it's going to happen. Nobody ever questions when God says, "I'm going to do it." 00:22:58.000 |
He's like, "No, I swear." We swear because people don't 00:23:02.000 |
fully trust us when we say, "No, I'll be there at five." He's like, "Yeah, right." 00:23:06.000 |
"I swear." He's like, "No, I really, really mean it." Why does 00:23:10.000 |
God have to swear? If He says five, He's like, "He's going to be there at five." 00:23:14.000 |
If He says He's going to do it, He's going to do it. So why does He swear? 00:23:22.000 |
the hearers would recognize, like, you know, if you 00:23:26.000 |
are not taking me seriously, I want you to hear me clearly. Right? 00:23:30.000 |
That when God says, "I swear," pay attention. This is going to happen. 00:23:34.000 |
Right? So the Lord swears for the purpose of emphasis, certainty. 00:23:38.000 |
As I have planned, so shall it be. And as I have purpose, 00:23:42.000 |
so shall it stand. Right? God's purpose cannot be changed. 00:23:46.000 |
His nature cannot be changed. What He says will happen. 00:23:50.000 |
Right? How will it happen? When will it happen? 00:23:54.000 |
We don't know. That's only He knows. But what He says 00:24:18.000 |
from His land along with their oppression. God's going to 00:24:38.000 |
this is the purpose that is purpose concerning the whole earth, and this is the hand 00:24:42.000 |
that is stretched out over all the nations. So again, after He makes all these promises 00:24:46.000 |
to the nation of Israel, He clarifies it by saying, "Everything I'm saying to Israel 00:24:50.000 |
is not just about Israel. It's about the whole earth." 00:25:06.000 |
He make it clear? Why doesn't He say, you know, "Why is there an application for historical 00:25:10.000 |
application?" And then it kind of, you know, however you want to put it, like there's 00:25:14.000 |
almost a hidden message about something going to happen in the future. 00:25:18.000 |
Like why not be clear and say, "This is about the end, and this is 00:25:22.000 |
what's going to happen." Why does He kind of have like, He's talking about Babylonia, 00:25:26.000 |
but He's talking about the world, but He's talking about Satan at the end. Right? 00:25:34.000 |
>>Something has to connect the dots with what's going on 00:25:38.000 |
spiritually. Because we don't really have a lot of insight into that, and that's actually 00:25:46.000 |
sometimes He connects the dots for us to see where these things come from. 00:25:50.000 |
Who sets up the power of Assyria? What does Assyria represent? And how He's going to 00:25:54.000 |
take care of not just the physical instance of 00:25:58.000 |
the oppression, but the spiritual power behind it permanently. 00:26:26.000 |
Let me just say off the bat, I don't have the answer. 00:26:30.000 |
[laughter] So, we're just making an educated guess. 00:26:46.000 |
like, you know, God is putting the man's human history 00:26:54.000 |
what's happening historically is the puzzle that He's putting into place, but God is 00:26:58.000 |
beyond time. Right? And He's always looking at the big picture. 00:27:02.000 |
And in Hebrews He said everything that God did in the Old Testament 00:27:06.000 |
was a shadow. So, even as historical events are physical, 00:27:10.000 |
right, in the end what all these events that are 00:27:14.000 |
taking place is only a shadow of the reality. So, to us the spiritual stuff 00:27:18.000 |
seems kind of like the shadow, because they are kind of iffy to us. 00:27:22.000 |
Right? And the historical things are concrete because we have names, we have 00:27:26.000 |
dates. But what God is doing is actually exactly the opposite. 00:27:30.000 |
What's happening in history is kind of a shadow. And that's kind of like, 00:27:34.000 |
"Whoa, why is this happening? Why is this going on?" And all of these 00:27:38.000 |
things all point to Christ, His resurrection, His coming, 00:27:42.000 |
the final judgment. So, in the end, in God's eyes, that's the big picture. 00:27:46.000 |
Right? The big picture is what's happening, like I said, 00:27:50.000 |
the reality in Christ and His kingdom and eternity. And these historical 00:27:54.000 |
things are kind of like little puzzle pieces that goes into place. So, 00:27:58.000 |
I think God, you know, He's not talking, to me He's not double-toned. 00:28:02.000 |
He's talking about that piece, but He's talking about that piece in the context 00:28:26.000 |
>> Student: Or figuratively, 'cause we had this discussion last week. 00:28:29.500 |
You know, like Isaiah 23, very literal, a lot of things that happened. 00:28:35.200 |
But then some things are not, like for instance, you know the King of theanie, 00:28:40.700 |
or the King of Babylon, or the, you know, in the very better form, 00:28:45.700 |
Paul says something about possibly saving, you know. 00:28:48.700 |
He talked about John the Baptist, he was referred to as Elijah, 00:28:52.300 |
but that's when people were like, wait a minute, that's not Elijah, that's John. 00:28:55.500 |
And then, you know, there's like, it opens up greater issues with whether, 00:29:00.800 |
you know, creation, you know, like were they literally seven days, 00:29:08.300 |
I feel like it just opens, the fact that you can't really just make it clear, 00:29:14.800 |
just take everything in the Bible literally, or everything in the Bible 00:29:21.300 |
You can't, it just kind of leaves it for a lot of interpretation. 00:29:27.300 |
Is this church, I'm sorry, is this process dealing with the nation of Israel, 00:29:32.300 |
or is it fulfilling the church because it's a metaphor? 00:29:36.300 |
And I think in God's wisdom, I mean that kind of relates to, you know, 00:29:39.300 |
why God didn't tell, like he said he's clearly coming, 00:29:43.800 |
And then he says, you know, he's going to come like a thief in the night, right? 00:29:47.300 |
But then you shouldn't be caught off guard like that, that you should be ready. 00:29:50.800 |
So he leaves enough, when it happens, you know, like that's what he was referring to. 00:29:56.300 |
But until you see a concrete revelation of what he said, 00:30:05.300 |
So the question is, why did he leave it like that? 00:30:07.300 |
So like, should we interpret the Bible literally or figuratively? 00:30:11.300 |
When I look at the way that the scripture is fulfilled in the coming of Christ, 00:30:17.300 |
and so many prophecies about Jesus coming and all this stuff, 00:30:20.800 |
I mean it happened literally, most of it, right? 00:30:24.800 |
So I think the natural way that we should look at everything is first literal, 00:30:37.800 |
But the first inclination should not be allegorical or figurative. 00:30:43.800 |
And then see, okay, there's no way that Jesus' tongue is actually a sword. 00:30:51.300 |
When he said God's hand was on him, it wasn't like his hand that came down and touched him. 00:30:58.800 |
But I think, again, this is just a guess, that God left it like that on purpose 00:31:04.300 |
because one, it doesn't affect us spiritually and the commands that it's given us, 00:31:09.300 |
one way or the other, whether we interpret literally or not. 00:31:17.800 |
The fact that there's judgment is coming is not affected. 00:31:22.800 |
So if it comes to this major stuff that is absolutely necessary to build a church and to preach the gospel, 00:31:30.800 |
What it affects is specifically how is this going to roll out. 00:31:36.800 |
That's the part where we're kind of like, is that literal, is that not literal? 00:31:39.800 |
But in the end, it does affect a big chunk of how we interpret scripture, 00:31:43.800 |
but it doesn't affect the way that we, in our obedience in any way. 00:31:47.800 |
And I don't think God, like even when we talk about predestination, 00:31:52.800 |
the purpose of the teaching of the predestination wasn't so that he can reveal to us, this is how God works. 00:32:02.800 |
Like, why are you responsible if God is sovereign? 00:32:08.800 |
We can have all these discussions, but what was the purpose of the revelation of the predestination? 00:32:19.800 |
Whenever he talks about predestination, why does he talk about predestination? 00:32:39.800 |
So the whole purpose of doctrine of predestination is to have confidence in his word. 00:32:46.800 |
So I think when we talk about revelation, like the purpose of it is to let us know that there's judgment coming. 00:32:52.800 |
The purpose of it is to let us know that there's reward. 00:33:00.800 |
But specifically where and how and when is that going to happen? 00:33:05.800 |
And to be honest, I think in wisdom he did that. 00:33:09.800 |
If you really think about like even just during your lifetime, I don't know if there's been anything in the last 15 years where there was a real like stir of when Jesus was going to come. 00:33:49.800 |
Anyway, what that first time it happened, it was like international news. 00:33:56.800 |
They sold all their possession and they went into a room and they were, and they built, you know, bought billboard signs. 00:34:10.800 |
And then everybody, all the cameras were there waiting for them to crawl out. 00:34:14.800 |
And then next day it was like 11, 12 o'clock, one by one, people, because they got hungry. 00:34:23.800 |
You know, the Seventh-day Adventist, that denomination or that group was started by a prophecy that was given on the seventh day Jesus was going to advent. 00:34:33.800 |
And instead of dispersing, they made it into a group. 00:34:36.800 |
And that's why they're called Seventh-day Adventist. 00:34:45.800 |
I'm just thinking, I think in his wisdom he left it like that, obviously. 00:34:49.800 |
And knowing our human nature, God left it enough that we would only know like when it actually happens. 00:34:59.800 |
Like this is when it happens, it's like, oh, the Bible said it. 00:35:02.800 |
And if you're not paying attention to the Bible and you're not looking into these things, when it happens, you're going to be oblivious. 00:35:08.800 |
I think every Christian who has been paying attention to history, like what's unfolding in the Middle East, and if you know anything about the prophecies of the book of Revelation or any prophecy of the end times, I think it's probably been stirring your heart. 00:35:26.800 |
Because it's been stirring me because every time I watch that, it makes me think that we're a lot closer. 00:35:31.800 |
I mean, I know I've had these thoughts before, but never like what I'm seeing now. 00:35:39.800 |
I mean, we've seen pockets of it, but it's kind of spreading to the extent like I never thought that in my lifetime that we're going to see real persecution of Christians in the United States. 00:35:56.800 |
The fact that we can't say Merry Christmas, this is not persecution. 00:36:03.800 |
That, you know, we may be aware of it, not aware of it, but that kind of stuff is coming over here. 00:36:10.800 |
So at what point is that going to happen here? 00:36:20.800 |
Yeah, because in the end, I think God left it like that on purpose. 00:36:23.800 |
I don't have a specific answer for that, but I think in God's wisdom, he did it on purpose. 00:36:29.800 |
To me, what makes the most sense is he's, because God is not specifically talking about one thing. 00:36:39.800 |
So what we may think, like, oh, why is he talking about this and that at the same time? 00:36:49.800 |
What is the warning given to Philistia after the death of Ahaz, the king of Judah? 00:36:54.800 |
The judgment upon Babylon does not mean that they are safe. 00:36:57.800 |
In other words, just because you see the king of Babylon falling, doesn't mean you're safe. 00:37:02.800 |
He said, what characterized the main judgment of Philistia? 00:37:06.800 |
Judgment on them will come from a straggler, meaning that even the remnants of them are going to come. 00:37:13.800 |
Their children or whatever is remaining from them is still going to cause all kinds of havoc. 00:37:26.800 |
All right. Give the main summary of Moab's judgment in these two chapters. 00:37:30.800 |
So chapter 15 and 16 talk about the judgment of Moab. 00:37:41.800 |
The main judgment, I put six, but it's chapter 16, six, not 15, six. 00:37:49.800 |
So if you look at chapter 16, six, it says, we have heard of the pride of Moab, how proud he is of his arrogance, his pride and his insolence in his idol boasting. 00:37:59.800 |
How many times have you seen this in the last 16 chapters of the reason why God's bringing judgment? 00:38:18.800 |
Yeah, I didn't count. But almost every instance where God talks about judgment, that's the primary cause. 00:38:25.800 |
Right. The reason why judgment is coming upon Israel, the southern kingdom, northern kingdom, Babylonians, Assyrians, the Moabites, all of them. 00:38:36.800 |
So if you look at the central sin of rebellion, whether it's satanic, whether it's kingdom, whether it's individual, it's his desire to raise himself. 00:38:50.800 |
What does he say? If you find your life, you will lose it. 00:38:54.800 |
If you lose your life for my sake, you will find it. He who humbles himself. 00:39:01.800 |
God will humble. If you want to be my disciples, pick up your cross. 00:39:08.800 |
So the reversal of this curse, like if the curse of mankind is his desire and his active pursuing of his elevation. 00:39:17.800 |
Right. The reversal of this curse is to go do what Jesus did, did not consider equality because something to be grasped. 00:39:25.800 |
And then he humbles himself. He empties himself. He becomes nothing. He serves. 00:39:29.800 |
Right. Exact opposite of everything we're seeing in Isaiah. 00:39:36.800 |
What's unique about the judgment against Moab is unlike the judgment against Babylon and Assyria, 00:39:41.800 |
the judgment against Moab seems to be followed by a sense, genuine sense of sorrow over their destruction. 00:39:47.800 |
Right. When Babylon, Babylon falls, everybody's rejoicing. All those tyrants gone. 00:39:52.800 |
But when Moab falls, it keeps telling us to mourn and to weep and cry out. 00:39:57.800 |
Right. There's a sense of sorrow over their judgment. 00:40:02.800 |
Isaiah 15 has 12 occurrences about weeping and crying out and lamenting. 00:40:07.800 |
Right. Isaiah 16 or 15 verse five, that my heart cries out for Moab. 00:40:14.800 |
So even though judgment is coming. Right. There is there is a reluctance to bring judgment upon them. 00:40:21.800 |
Now, why that is Moab actually has a pretty close relationship with the nation of Israel. 00:40:29.800 |
Right. Who was the probably the most famous Moabite in the Bible? 00:40:36.800 |
Ruth. OK. Ruth is probably right. And Moabites are the descendants of Lot, Abraham's nephew. 00:40:46.800 |
And so if you look at the history of Israel and the Moabites, they're almost like cousins. 00:40:52.800 |
There are periods when they're supporting each other and they they you know, they're allies. 00:40:56.800 |
And then there's periods of their history where the Moabites are or allying against them. 00:41:01.800 |
Right. And they go back and forth. It's kind of like cousins. 00:41:04.800 |
So the relationship with Israel and the Moabites is a lot like the Judah and Ephraim, the southern and the northern kingdom. 00:41:11.800 |
So even they're not they're not from the promised line of David, but they're kind of close by. 00:41:17.800 |
Right. And so the Moabites again. So even though judgment is coming upon them because of their arrogance and pride, 00:41:24.800 |
the attitude is very different than the Babylonians. Right. 00:41:28.800 |
Again, Isaiah 16 follows a pattern of weeping in verses 16, 17 and 9. 00:42:04.800 |
Israelites hearts crying out for your God's heart or Isaiah's heart? 00:42:09.800 |
Yeah, I was kind of wrestling with that myself and my conclusion was I'm not completely sure. 00:42:19.800 |
Yeah, it seems like to me, I mean, but if you look at the general tone of both chapter 15 and 16, 00:42:28.800 |
there's reference to all of them. There's reference to Israelites like to call to them to mourn. 00:42:35.800 |
There's reference to Isaiah. There's reference to the Moabites. Right. 00:42:41.800 |
To to mourn for their own destruction. So I don't think he would be off to say that this is God. 00:42:49.800 |
Because that's definitely his heart, because he's calling everybody to mourn. Right. 00:42:57.800 |
And then again, if you look at chapter 16, 1 through 4. 00:43:01.800 |
It says to shelter and protect the fugitives in the outcast. 00:43:07.800 |
So if you look at chapters 16, 1 through 4, it says, 00:43:11.800 |
Send the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela by way of the desert to the mount of daughter of Zion, 00:43:16.800 |
like fleeing birds, like a scattered nest. So are the daughters of Moab. 00:43:24.800 |
Yeah. Starting from 3. Give counsel, grant justice, make your shade like night at the height of noon. 00:43:30.800 |
Shelter the outcast. Do not reveal the fugitive. 00:43:32.800 |
Let the outcasts of Moab soldier among you. Be a shelter to them. 00:43:36.800 |
So in other words, he's calling the nation of Israel to show compassion for them. Right. 00:43:52.800 |
When the oppressor is no more and destruction has ceased, 00:43:55.800 |
and he who tramples underfoot has vanished from the land, 00:43:58.800 |
then a throne will be established in steadfast love. 00:44:01.800 |
So it's a messianic passage in verse 4 and 5. 00:44:04.800 |
Again, reminding them that God's anger is not going to burn forever. 00:44:08.800 |
He's going again, remember we talked about how he breaks in with judgment that's coming, 00:44:14.800 |
but it almost kind of like always concludes in, but the Messiah is coming. 00:44:18.800 |
Right. This is what's happening now, but the Messiah is coming. 00:44:24.800 |
So again, when you study through the prophecies in Israel's history, 00:44:28.800 |
no wonder that it kind of causes frenzy when saying Messiah is coming, 00:44:33.800 |
because every problem that they had, the solution was Jesus. 00:44:38.800 |
They didn't see that Jesus was the Messiah, but that's all. 00:44:43.800 |
Imagine if you're studying through Israel's history, 00:44:46.800 |
every time you have a Passover, every time you have a family gathering, 00:44:50.800 |
and every time you complain about the oppressors, right, 00:44:53.800 |
and how we don't have enough food, and there's no rain in the land, 00:44:56.800 |
and every time there's a problem in the Scripture, the solution is Messiah. 00:45:05.800 |
The vipers and children are going to be walking together, 00:45:10.800 |
and your vats are going to be filled with plenty. 00:45:14.800 |
The oppressors are going to be judged, and you're going to be overthrown. 00:45:19.800 |
So every problem that Israel had, the solution was the Messiah. 00:45:26.800 |
but then they kind of created what they thought restoration was. 00:45:29.800 |
He said His kingdom will be founded upon love and faithfulness, 00:45:36.800 |
Israel is oppressed by injustice, by foreign nations, by idolatry. 00:45:44.800 |
your kingdom is going to be based on love and faithfulness. 00:45:53.800 |
government will be characterized by justice and righteousness. 00:46:00.800 |
The theology of the kingdom is a very important part of our understanding of salvation. 00:46:11.800 |
We've been saved from the dominion of darkness into the kingdom of His Son. 00:46:17.800 |
We're not quite there yet, because He starts it, but we're not there yet. 00:46:22.800 |
But the whole purpose of salvation is for us to be under the dominion of His Son. 00:46:29.800 |
So again, remember we talked about that last week. 00:46:32.800 |
It wasn't like freedom to do whatever you want. 00:46:34.800 |
Like, "Oh, you're free from the oppressors to go out into the desert." 00:46:38.800 |
He said, "No, you're free from the oppressor so that you can be free to worship the right creator, 00:46:45.800 |
to serve under the right king who is faithful, who is loving. 00:46:48.800 |
And His judgment is going to be just and righteous." 00:46:53.800 |
And so that's where the theology of the local church comes in. 00:46:57.800 |
Local church is a physical manifestation, not complete. 00:47:01.800 |
It's like a child. We've only seen a glimpse. 00:47:04.800 |
But an incomplete picture of His kingdom actualized through the local church. 00:47:21.800 |
And so what we are working toward, what we are building toward, all of this ultimately will be actualized in the real kingdom that He comes. 00:47:28.800 |
So this is kind of like a training wheels, I guess. 00:47:33.800 |
Right? Everything we're doing here is like training wheels for the day He comes. 00:47:38.800 |
And all of this is going to be actualized in one real kingdom. 00:48:21.800 |
I mean, I don't know to what extent, but we know that at that time, like even Elijah's ministry, you know how people knew, like, "Oh, that troublemaker of Israel, he's always speaking negative things, and that guy only has bad things to say." 00:48:36.800 |
So I believe that His prophecies, these prophecies, I guess it wasn't meant for just a few years. 00:48:46.800 |
So it was for the nation of Israel. Obviously, they had the scrolls, so Israel had it, but I don't think it was limited to them. 00:48:51.800 |
And you see traces of that. It doesn't clearly say that they went around and telling everybody, but like even Jonah, right? 00:49:00.800 |
So Jonah is one, but I don't think Jonah is the only prophet that God sent to speak. 00:49:06.800 |
It's just that it's not part of the, you know, the Davidic line, you know, human history. 00:49:13.800 |
Just like when it talks about what Jesus said and done, not all of it is written, or else we wouldn't have enough pages to write all of that. 00:49:19.800 |
So there are traces in the Bible where certain prophets are sent out outside of Israel. 00:49:26.800 |
Yeah, so we just don't know specifically how much and when. 00:49:33.800 |
What was Moab's relationship with Assyria, and wasn't that a part of why they were being judged? 00:49:43.800 |
Moab's relationship with not only Assyria, but Ephraim, if you look at their history, 00:49:51.800 |
there are periods when they allied themselves with Assyria to attack the northern kingdom. 00:49:58.800 |
And so Ephraim, remember the beginning of Isaiah, it starts out because Assyria contacts the northern kingdom, 00:50:07.800 |
because Israel, Judah would not join with them to fight with the Assyrians, or I got that mixed up. 00:50:16.800 |
Yeah, to fight with the Babylonians. Right. Is that right? 00:50:24.800 |
So Syria and the northern kingdom, they combine together to fight against the southern kingdom, 00:50:31.800 |
to fight against Assyria. That's where I got mixed up. 00:50:35.800 |
So if you look at Israel's history, Moab does the same thing. 00:50:39.800 |
In different pockets of time, they go back and forth. 00:50:42.800 |
So part of their judgment is that too, they trust in the other foreign nations. 00:51:37.800 |
Yeah, I've heard that before, but I feel like you can only see that if you see US as the center of the world right now. 00:51:45.800 |
You know what I mean? Because if you look at all the great nations, the kingdoms that have come and gone, 00:51:51.800 |
200 years is pretty short. You know what I mean? In comparison to other kingdoms. 00:51:57.800 |
So, and then even the 200 years, I think US has been in like superpower maybe less than 100 years. Right? 00:52:07.800 |
Or less than 100 years. So could it be? Who knows? What do I think about it? 00:52:23.800 |
All right. The more you ask, the more I'm going to go into territory. I'm just going to make things up. 00:52:40.800 |
You remember, you know the Coptic Christians? They're connected to Nineveh. 00:52:52.800 |
When all that persecution was happening and beheading was going on, I looked it up and said that those Coptic Christians originate. 00:52:59.800 |
I mean, they're all over the place. It's not just there. But they originate from Nineveh. 00:53:03.800 |
And I looked up Nineveh. I said, "Is this another Nineveh?" I said, "No, it's that Nineveh." 00:53:07.800 |
And their doctrines are a little bit off. You know? So, is that in all Syria? 00:53:14.800 |
Again, from this point on, I'm just making things up. 00:53:22.800 |
I know Nineveh is in all Syria. That I know. Historically. 00:53:31.800 |
All right. No more questions. I have no answers.