Marriage is complex, far more complex than we typically expect going in, as Matt and Lauren Chandler explained a short while back to us. I asked them what it looks like in their home as they live out God's design for marriage in today's world. Here's what they shared. We understood complementarianism biblically, but I'm coming from a background where there was a lot of abuse in my home growing up.

Lauren's coming from a background where there was a lot of kind of, correct me if I'm wrong here, a lot of kind of external religion but not a lot of heart transformation. And so the baggage I brought into the marriage and the baggage she brought into the marriage, although in essence we understood that we embraced complementarian views of the scriptures and of life, I think Lauren had to learn to trust me and I had to learn to try to nurture and nourish Lauren's gifts and abilities.

And so I think early on in the marriage it was a tougher run for us than maybe where we are now where we've learned one another and as we've navigated the waters of, I mean, 15 years together, 17 years together, 15 years married, that really pragmatically how it looks now is a real seriousness about me creating the space for Lauren to pursue and become the things that God has put on her plate and in her heart to do that are inside our home and outside of our home.

And then simultaneously, I mean, I know she's sitting right here next to me, to say anything I hadn't said to her before, but I just feel like the most encouraged, blessed man ever. And that's not because she's a yes man. I mean, she'll really...she'll go, "Well, I don't know that it was exactly happened that way." I mean, she'll really hold me accountable and encourage and go after my heart in ways that I don't even know what's going on in my heart.

The Lord's gifted her to really dig around in there and really be my helpmate in every way, as the pastor of the church, as a preacher, as a leader, as a father. In every way, Lauren's love for me, respect for me, and encouragement of me has made me, I think, the things that God wanted me to be and needed Lauren, wanted to use Lauren to bring those things about in my life.

- I would say the first, you know, six years of marriage were hard and I think I needed to learn...I was great at the submitting part, and partly because Matt is a great leader, and it's really freeing to submit to someone that you trust their leadership. But I think for me, I was squashed not by him, but by a lot of fear.

And so there are times I wasn't his helper because I wouldn't say anything. There was just this kind of self-contempt. And so instead of walking in freedom in Jesus and really knowing who he had made me and really knowing who he was and what he made marriage to be, I was just squashed.

But once I got to kind of have my feet planted in the gospel and really understanding the gospel, the Lord has given me as a helper. And instead of just being silent and just feeling like, "Well, I just have to deal with my stuff," the Lord gave me courage to love him well by saying some things that weren't disrespectful, but I was at least bringing some things up that before I just was like, "Well, it's not worth it.

I'm not going to do that," which was self-centered. I just wanted to avoid conflict and I wanted what was easy and it felt easier to say nothing. So I think that's how we've grown in our marriage, which I think sometimes is different for a lot of women. Most women feel like they're just really struggling to kind of reign some things in where I kind of needed to...

I need to get outside of myself and I needed to see that I wasn't being a good helper to him by avoiding the pain of loving him well. - Yeah. That's a good way to put it. - Yeah. - That was Matt and Lauren Chandler. We are grateful for them and for their willingness to let us see inside the struggles of their own marriage.

And on a related note, I recently talked with Matt about dating and the challenges of singleness. You can find our conversation in an article titled, "10 Questions on Dating with Matt Chandler," and you can find it at DesiringGod.org. Well, what a week. If you've missed any of the episodes from this week, be sure to download the app for Apple and Android devices.

Now with a continuous play feature button. Check that out. Download the apps. And of course, you can find links to the apps, you can find our archive of episodes, and you can submit a question to us all from our landing page. Go to DesiringGod.org/AskPastorJohn. Well, we are going to break for the weekend now, but we return on Monday with John Piper, and I will resume serving up your hard questions to him.

I'm your host Tony Rehnke. Thanks for listening to the Ask Pastor John podcast. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪