How do you think people could be, or do you think people should be more themselves, and how do they do that? - Well, it's just, I found out that, you know how there's some, there's like a, there's a sixth sense for humans. We can sense. We can sense when somebody's being authentic, and we can sense when somebody's not being authentic.

Right? And I think, I think you just wanna make sure everybody around you knows that you're authentic. Because people just love authenticity. This is why you guys voted for Trump. Not to get political, but at least you can probably think that whatever Trump says, he actually believes. Whether you like it or not, right?

But the authenticity is so attractive about humans, and I think it's just like such an underrated feature that many people don't seem to grasp, is the more authentic you look, which means the more you say what you really wanna say, it means you'll actually be loved. It's very counterintuitive.

It's very counterintuitive. Because everybody is living in this act. We're all acting. You're smiling when you're supposed to smile. You're shaking hands when you're supposed to shake hands. You're putting a tie when you're supposed to wear a tie. We're all acting to each other until we die. But at some point you have to stop acting, and just like be who you really are.

You know, I once went to this conference in Switzerland. I'm not gonna say the name of the conference. But man, it was the most boring thing I've seen in my life. Where everybody pretended to be interested in everything everybody else was saying, but I know for a fact, for a fact, that deep down inside, everybody was bored.

But during the conversations, they were like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, great point, great point. "Well, I really love your suit." It was such an act that made me realize this is not it. This is not it. - Do you think people do that because they're afraid to be authentic?

Not because they're afraid of who they are, but because they're afraid other people will judge them? - Yeah, I mean, you don't wanna rock the boat. I mean, if you're making millions of dollars in Switzerland, you don't wanna rock the boat. I mean, I'll be the nicest guy ever if I have a million dollars guaranteed out of it, right?

So I think there's too much to lose. And that's why you have to be nice to each other. But when there's nothing to lose, then you become who you really are. And you see it when there is war. Oh, I have nothing to lose now. I'll just go be myself.

I can go loot, I can do whatever I want. But when you have a lot to lose, like that's why rich people's circles, everybody's so nice to each other. Because one mistake, you lose millions of dollars. So I think maybe the reason why we're nice is 'cause we're scared of losing what we have already achieved.

And I see it myself. When I have something to lose, I'm actually a little bit nicer to others. I'm a little bit less myself. Now I've come to a point where if I lose everything, I still have some money in the bank, so I'm okay. And that's why I think you see Elon Musk to be so himself, so crazy.

Because he has nothing to lose. He has the world's money. That's it. What's the worst thing? He's never gonna be homeless. So in a way, if your livelihood is on the line with what you're about to say, you're gonna say the nicest thing ever. - It's interesting, I talked to the, I don't know if you know Bill Perkins.

He wrote a book called "Die With Zero." And as an experiment-- - "Die With Zero." - "Die With Zero." As an experiment, he decided to go get some really old clothes and go panhandle for a few days in, I can't remember what city he was in. And what he did was he realized, wow, if I just sit on the street and beg for money, I can make, I actually think it was a crazy amount of money.

It was like $50,000 a year. - Wow. - And he was like, oh, so I'll never be homeless. Like, I don't have anything to worry about. Like, if everything gets taken away, I can go live on however much money I can make begging on the street. And it mentally got rid of that.

I'm curious, most people listening here are not at the kind of wealth that they're, getting millions of dollars in conferences in Switzerland. But they're kind of in this middle ground where they're probably not being their authentic self. You've talked about having the courage to be disliked. And I think a lot of times in a conversation, someone's not willing to say something 'cause they're like, ooh, maybe someone won't like it.

Oh, maybe I'll offend someone. Even though I really feel it. And I don't think that means intentionally trying to offend people. What would you tell someone who's like, hey, Nassir, how do I just be more me? - I think people should aim to be disliked. And this is really counterintuitive.

Again, very counterintuitive, very. You should aim to be disliked. Because the way I've seen the world work is for every one person that dislikes you, there's an equivalent person on the other side of the world that loves you. And so the more somebody dislikes you, the more another person loves you.

So it's a very polarizing thing, right? But if somebody doesn't dislike you, you know what it also means? Nobody actually loves you. So, and this is why most politicians in democracies end up with like 50-50%. Now, why is that? Because politicians need security and everything because there are people who really dislike them and wanna kill them.

That's why they need security. And there are people who really love them and wanna vote for them forever. And so, I think people should aim to live life like a politician, which is have some people that clearly dislike the way you live life, but also on the other side, you'll have your people.

And people are just attracted to big ideas, big opinions. They're attracted to people who are authentic. And you know, I hate Gary Vee, okay? Just to be very open about it. Like, I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan of the Gary Vee style, but he's a genius for doing it because that same style is why he has a diehard fandom.

And that's powerful. And I'm trying to emulate Gary Vee as much as I hate his style. I'm trying to emulate it by being who I am and get my fair share of haters. I think I have 30 million haters or so. But on the other side, I have 60, 70 million lovers.

I love living like that. - And does it make you happy? - Very happy. That's probably the only thing that makes me happy is knowing how much I'm worth hating. Because it also means I'm worth loving by somebody else. It's because there's something to hate. I mean, like anybody who lives life without being hated on is not somebody who's done any meaningful change.

Most change comes with resistance. And if you are not getting resistance for your ideas and what you believe in and what you like and what you wanna do in your career, then you're not pushing the envelope enough. And if you're not pushing the envelope enough, your life is inconsequential.

That's how I think about it. Of course, these are very extreme thoughts.