(upbeat hip hop music) - Hi, welcome back to another episode of Curious Mike. Today I'm here with my guy, my right hand man, Nicodemus. My manager, my trainer, security, all that, all in one. So, I'm excited to have you on Curious Mike. It's been a long time coming. Yeah, so, for those of you that don't know, we met back in college when I went to Mizzou.

He was my strength coach at the time. And we kind of developed a relationship over time there, but nothing to what it's like now. Kind of, what was your, from your perspective, how was it when I committed to Mizzou, when I came there and kind of walked through, like, what you remember from that time when I was in Mizzou?

- Bro, that was a roller coaster, because that was our first year at Mizzou. We had just got there, obviously, with Coach Martin. There was a ton of excitement around the program. And then, all of a sudden, we signed Michael Porter Jr., we signed Jontae Porter, we get Blake Harris, in addition to the guys that we already had.

And automatically, America was on notice. You know what I mean? It was like, oh my goodness, you have to watch out for Mizzou next season. And then, I just remember, we go through that whole summer, and I was really surprised at the work and the effort and all that that you guys put in.

Like, 'cause there's young guys, you see freshmen who come in, and some of 'em have a work ethic, some of 'em don't. But you, in particular, you were serious from day one, specifically in the weight room. It was like, what is it gonna take to get better? You did everything that was required.

You didn't necessarily like the 6 a.m.'s in the sand. - You're getting up early like that, yeah. - But, yeah, and then, you get to the, everything's going well. And then, I remember we get to that first game, right? And then, just something was off. And I remember you saying that you couldn't go.

And then, we go through that whole situation, right? Where, right before your first game of college basketball, due to the injury, you couldn't play. And then, we have the ups and downs and ups and downs to trying to get you back out there on the court, trying to get you ready for, really, the next level at that point.

And then, you had that desire to come back. So, you came back and played in the NCAA tournament game against Florida State, right? I think is who you played against. - Yeah, no, I came back against-- - Was it Georgia? - I came back against Georgia. - Georgia. - In the SEC tournament, then Florida State.

- Florida State in the NCAA tournament. So, there were a lot of ups and downs in between, but through that whole process, you and I formed a really good relationship. And we stayed in contact and kept working together after you left to go to the NBA. And then, shoot, here we are now.

- Yeah. So, going back to that time, you being a young strength coach, you were like boys with a lot of the players, you know? What was, you tell me sometimes about how, like, we would be going out, not you, but, like, some of us would be going out, but you would have, like, a fake Snapchat, like, acting like you was, like, a girl, to, like, add the players to, like, see what we were on.

Explain your motive behind that. - Yeah, so, there was, I mean, you just have to get, I had to get creative, right? Because I think part of my responsibility as the strength and conditioning coach at that time was just to make sure that you guys were putting yourselves in position to be successful, to be your eyes and ears for things that you might not know that could happen, that are happening out in the world, and just be as protective or as helpful as I can.

And a part of that was understanding how you guys were moving around on the streets in the weekends. So, whether it was having a burner account on Snap or having a burner account on IG, or even, you know, there were times where befriending you all's significant others, right? And you're saying, "Coach Nick, "I can't believe Michael would do this," or, "I can't believe Blake would do this," and this and that and this and that.

You know, it was, by any means necessary, just keeping an eye in the air to the streets and figuring out, you know, how y'all were moving on the weekends and during the week. - Yeah, that's funny, that's hilarious to talk about. So, yeah, you have a very, I'd say, like a protective nature about your protective personality.

One story in particular that I think is interesting is the story about your younger sister. - Yeah. - And you talked, you told me one time about how your younger sister, she was, I think it was her roommate's boyfriend or something, and her roommate's boyfriend, like, disrespected your sister, and you said you and your brother flew all the way to, I think-- - West Lafayette, Indiana.

- Oh, yeah, Indiana to check him. What was that story? What happened there? Have you always kind of had a protective nature? Was that just something you grew up with, or what, you know? - Yeah, because, I mean, early on, it comes from our father. I'm one of seven.

I have an older brother, and then I have five sisters. And, I mean, we came from very humble beginnings. My pops moved around in the streets, so he taught us some of those lessons and some of the things that were necessary for us to survive in the streets and to protect our sisters and protect our mom was the number one priority.

You know, even from a young age, I can remember me and G, Gary, my older brother, were very, very young, and my dad would always say, "When he's gone, "my brother's the man of the house, "and then it's my job to help my brother "be in the man of the house, "protect my mom and my sisters." So, from a young age, pops ingrained that in us over and over and over.

So, I mean, when we didn't know what else to do, we knew that our responsibility was always to protect our mom and our sisters. And that was just an instance where my little sister, she was in college, and I remember getting that phone call. She called my brother and I, and she was crying, and then she started going off.

My sister's very independent, so if she's to the point to where she's crying, you know something's going down. And I guess she had a confrontation with a roommate's boyfriend. A roommate's boyfriend has some choice words. So, my brother and I already knew what it was. - Nah, we need some circumstance.

- So, I mean, it was essentially a situation where we hopped on a plane, went to West Lafayette. There was a confrontation. - With him directly? - Yeah. - Oh, really? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, post-confrontation, all of his things were packed up in black trash bags and put on the street corner, and that was the last time they had communication with him.

One of those type situations, so. - I like it, I like it, I like it. Nah, I can't think of any times I've really had to, you know, both my sisters are older, but I can't remember any times me and my brothers have had to, but we'd be on the same type of time, for sure.

- Yeah. - Again, switching gears a little bit, I wanna get into this book that you recently wrote. - Yeah. - So, you wrote a book. First of all, what was your motivation behind writing the book, and what is it about? - Yeah, so it was, shoot, over the last 14, 15 years, right, working with collegiate athletes, working with professional athletes, working with businessmen and businesswomen, you see people who reach this pinnacle of success, of what we define as success, but behind the scenes, they still, for some reason, are never able to find peace.

So, like, that concept just, I almost became obsessed with it. So, I challenged myself. I was like, for the next year, every single day, I had to spend an hour a day studying peace to really figure out what it was, how do you find it, how do you help people achieve it, and then I ended up, it was over a year straight, over a year, 365 days straight, where I studied peace and it kept going, but through that study, I came to realize that order, the word order, order was a prerequisite to peace.

So, when people are able to find order in their lives, then that sets them up to have peace, right? And that word peace, if you look at it, if you look at the etymology of it, it's so rich in meaning. It means wholeness, it means health, it means prosperity, which means to move forward.

It means protection, it means completion. So, when you have order in your life, you set yourself up to have a healthier life, to have a more prosperous life, to have all these things. So, it was just through my studies, through experience in life with guys like you and seeing this struggle to find peace and finding out that order was a prerequisite, I was like, yo, this is something that I want to share with others, specifically people who are in your situation.

So, I knew from the beginning, it wasn't gonna be a traditional book, but I've been practicing journaling for over 10 years now, and then it clicked. It was like, well, I believe in the, there's this concept called instinctive elaboration, where if you ask a questions, questions for even a quick second, hijack the brain, and you have an opportunity to be introspective and to just practice self-examination.

So, the way that I decided to do it is to ask a series of 17 very introspective questions to where you have to look yourself in the mirror. And the hope is that as you find your identity over the course of answering those seven questions and start to establish order in your life, then that's where you can really start to walk in the peace that we should all be walking in.

- Right. - Yeah. - So, peace, identity, all these words that you're using, I feel like are words that are super important to a person of faith, a person of God. I feel like people that kind of are in the world trying to do what the world is doing, their goals would be more happiness, or their goals would be more pleasure, but you used the word peace.

So, how would you say peace differs from happiness? 'Cause you said like, you found that even some of the most successful people, they were lacking in peace, which is something I've seen too. Some of the most happiest people, most famous people, most rich people, peace is the thing that they're lacking, but it's also the thing that they don't know how to find.

So, how would you say peace differs from happiness? - Well, I would say that, obviously happiness is an emotion. One of the words that pops in my mind that's synonymous with peace, if you look at the, like I said, the etymology of that word peace is fulfillment, right? You see people all the time who are quote unquote at this pinnacle of success, and then they're depressed, or they're committing suicide, or they're lacking fulfillment.

That word peace to be complete, to be whole, fulfillment is something that alludes so many people. So, whether you wanna think of it as the word peace, or even wellness, or fulfillment, I think all of us were placed on this earth to fulfill something, and that's why I use the word identity, because you have to know who you are, and what your identity is, and what you were placed here to do in order to fulfill that.

So, you can make a billion dollars, but not be doing the thing that you were created to do, and you don't have fulfillment. You can be the best CEO, but at home, your life is in turmoil, right? Because you focus so much on the professional accolades that you forgot that you had a wife and kids at home.

You know, it's interesting you asked that question. I saw a quote the other day. It said that in 20 years from now, the only person or the only people that are gonna remember that you worked overtime are your kids. And that hit me differently, right? Because you see, I see it all the time, these people who grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, they work, work, work, and they find something, what I think they do is they reach an achievement, it's not success.

Because success can't just be external, it can't just be money. There's two parts to success, there's the internal part and the external part. So, yes, there's the joy and the happiness and all that, but you don't wanna have that and be broke. So, I think that that's why I love the word fulfillment is because I'm having professional success, but I'm also having personal success, relational success, psychological success, so it's like the whole complete picture coming together.

- From my experience, and I don't know what you think, peace is something that, like it talks in the Bible about it's something you search for, but then it's something that you work to keep, like you work to maintain peace. So, it's something that can come and go. What are the main ways, I mean, you talk about order, but what are the practical ways you think that you can maintain peace?

Do you think it's the routine, it's the habits, or it's waking up early? What do you think, if you had to give a few practical ways where you can maintain peace, regardless of the ups and downs of life? - Number one, find your identity. I think that everything that is set apart or set aside for you is in your identity, because when you find out who you are, then you'll find out why you're here, and then that's where you start to prioritize your time and your effort towards that, right?

So, I think identity is, finding your identity is so important. I think we're suffering from an identity crisis in the world because everybody is putting on these false identities, especially guys like you, you have fans telling you, this is who you're supposed to be. You have friends telling you, this is who you're supposed to be.

You have an organization telling you, this is who you're supposed to be. You have a family telling you, this is who you're supposed to be. But it's like, at what point do you actually find that identity? Me being a believer, I believe that we get our identity from God.

I believe in this concept of original intent, where it's like he originally intended for us to be something, to do something, to expand his kingdom on earth. So, I think that everything starts with finding the right identity. I think the second thing is making sure that you have the right influences around you, because who you're with and who you're around will significantly impact the decisions you make.

Interesting thing about that, I had a conversation probably about a year ago with a guy by the name of Dr. Mehran Serf. He's a world-renowned neuroscientist. I was actually listening to the playback of our conversation this morning. And one of the things that he talked about, his big thing is human behavior and changing human behavior.

And he said that one of the biggest things that you can do to impact human behavior is this concept of proximity, right? He said that the brain actually has the ability to learn through osmosis. So, the example he gave me, he was like, "If you wanna be a better comedian, you can go read a book about a thousand jokes, or you can go spend time with a comedian.

And if you go spend time with a comedian because you're in proximity to them, you'll learn how to be a comedian." So, I think identity, I think influence, I think instructions, I'm big. So, instructions for me are just like those habits and those principles and those things that we live by that guide us.

You know me, I'm big on habits, I'm big on discipline. So, I think that making sure that you're following some type of principles and you're willing to stick to those principles, I think that those things lead to peace. And then there's additionally, there's a scripture in the Bible that also says, "Wisdom's paths are peace." So, when you practice wisdom, then that path leads to peace.

So, I think that it's important that you're following the right instructions and your principles and you're applying those principles. And when you apply them, you'll have peace, excuse me. So, identity, influence, and instructions. - Yeah, I mean, I think in my life, when I've applied those things, sometimes better, sometimes worse.

But when I'm doing them consistently, that's when I have most peace, regardless of the good games, the bad games. But like you said, I feel like our culture and a lot of young people, you know, it's an identity crisis. I feel like even the people that are doing these things, maybe they are using Instagram and that's their whole job or whatever.

I just feel like there's a lot of people that are doing things in life right now that don't align with their purpose. Like you said, you believe everyone was put on here for a purpose. So, how do you think you find your purpose? For me, I mean, I've always been told, like you evaluate kind of your skillset.

- Yeah. - What you're good at. And then at the end of the day, like if you're a believer, you believe that the main thing is to push the kingdom, draw more people to God. But how do you think? 'Cause I just know, man, there's a lot of young people.

I got a lot of friends who, you know, even me, I know if I didn't make it in basketball or like it for some reason, if one of those injuries was career ending, like I don't know where I would have gone from there. I don't know how I would have used, 'cause I've always felt like my gift was basketball.

So, even talking to the people who felt, or they grew up doing one thing and then they didn't make it to where they wanted to and now they're having to shift their whole life. Like, how do you find your purpose? Because I just feel like, man, a lot of people are walking around here doing things they don't wanna do.

They have jobs they don't wanna have. And I mean, that's a depressing thought. I'm glad, you know, basketball worked out for me, but it could have easily not. So, how do you find what you're placed on earth for? - Yeah, you know, so that reminds me of a, I was watching an interview, this was probably some years ago, and it was Virgil Abloh, who before his passing, he was at one of the Ivy League schools and he was doing an interview.

And somehow they got on the topic of purpose and he had said it so clearly in a way that stuck with me. And he said, "Find your through line." So, what essentially your through line is, is you look over the course of your life and there's this string of something that you just couldn't shake, right?

And in looking at that through line, you'll find purpose. And the thing that I added to that, that I started to realize is, oftentimes we get mad at the frustrations that we have, but I think your unique frustrations are a clue as to what your purpose is. Like for me, for example, I can't, the thing that keeps me up at night is when I see need or when I see somebody who is suffering from some type of disorder or dysfunction or has chaos in their life.

So, from a young age, my mom will tell you, like I always had a heart for the homeless people or people who were dealing with some type of dysfunction. So, over the whole course of my life, need has bothered me or disorder and dysfunction has bothered me. So, I think you look at your unique frustrations, obviously your unique abilities, like there's something that you can do that surpasses the average skill level, right?

You have a unique ability to do something. I think there's, I heard an acronym before for finding your purpose, it's called SHAPE. So, you look at your spiritual gifts, right? You look at your heart, the unique passions that you have. You look at your unique abilities and your attitudes.

P stands for personality. I think that each of us have some unique aspects to our personality that make us who we are. If I'm giving an example for myself, very introverted, prefer to be behind the camera, behind the scenes and all that. Why is that important for my purpose is because it was my introvertedness that pushed me to be okay with, instead of moving around this way or that way, just be at the crib studying, right?

And soaking in this information and learning how to apply this information so that I can help young guys like you. So, I think that, and then E is experiences. So, you look at the unique experiences that you've had over the course of your life. And if you look at all those, your personality, unique abilities, unique frustrations, unique experiences, and even educationally, the things that you just have a knack for doing.

If you look at all those, those are all clues that point towards why you're here. And I think most importantly is, with regards to the identity crisis, is you have to connect to the right source. That's why, for me, my belief is so important because I can't get my identity from the outside world.

Like, I can't get my identity from social media. I can't get my identity from popular culture. I can't get my identity from anything else because it's a flawed identity. - 100%. So, I think one thing that, this is just a random thing I came up with as we're talking about peace.

One thing I've always struggled with with people who claim to be Christians is I feel like Christians are sometimes some of the people that lack the most peace. And I look at other religious people around the world or some of these people practicing this New Age spirituality or the people that, even sometimes atheists, and I look at them and I'm like, "Man, they're more sometimes appear to be more peaceful "than Christians." And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, I think it might be because of the, when you do accept God and you accept Christ into your life, there will be a pull.

It'll be the spirit versus the flesh. And you kinda gotta pick one. That's why it says if you're a lukewarm Christian, that's the most miserable place to be because you'll be lacking so much peace because you're getting pulled in two different directions. So, I think in our world now today, I feel like part of the reason Christians in general lack so much peace is they're lukewarm.

They never, they don't, and I'm talking to myself as well, they didn't go fully in committing to God and His ways and His principles and what the Bible says is right. But they also don't feel comfortable doing all the stuff the world says is okay. And so they lack so much peace.

And I just feel like that's a place that a lot of people are in the world today. What is your perspective on Christian people lacking peace? Do you think it's 'cause of the lukewarmness or where do you think that comes from? - I think that reminds me of a quote my dad gave me.

He told me, he told us early on, he said, "Your religion will take you to hell." So he taught us early on that, obviously we're Christians and that's our faith, but he told us the most important thing is your relationship with God. Because we know whether it's a physical relationship or whatever type of relationship we wanna apply it to, as you grow in that relationship and you start to become more intimate and you start to find new revelations of this and that and this and that, then there is a certain level of peace that comes with that.

There's a certain level, specifically with our relationship with God is as we start to submit to Him and His plan and His purpose and actually spend time with Him, then He starts to reveal certain things to us. I think when you start to talk about religion, religion for some people is just a habit.

It's like, I go to church, I sing a couple of worship songs, I pray before I eat, but there's no real execution on the principles. So it goes back to when I talked about following the right instructions. It's okay, it's one thing to read the scripture and it's another thing to actually apply the principles that are in the scripture.

And I think you and I have talked about this a million times like sometimes now that I'm in the position that I'm in and we'll be sitting in meetings and this and that and this and that. So I think sometimes I've seen business, businessmen and businesswomen, CEOs, who apply biblical principles better than Christians do.

- Right. - Right? It's the application of the principle. So it's one thing to go to church and it's one thing to receive the gift of salvation, but there's a whole nother thing about walking this thing out daily and applying the principles. Because principles are important. There's the way that Dr.

Miles Monroe, I'll never forget it. He said, "Every principle has a if-then clause." So if I do this, then this happens. The business world applies those principles because they know if, for example, if I keep my balance sheet in order, then X, Y, Z happens. But in Christianity, we don't necessarily follow those principles or execute on them.

- I agree. Talk a little bit about a morning routine on the more practical side again, because I feel like as important as all these topics are, like sometimes people that are super busy or make themselves too busy, it's very hard to get to the place where you're applying the things that you need to in order to live the life you want to live.

There is a practical side of, I need to spend time in the Word. I need to fill myself up. I need to have this time to journal. So I think personally, from my experience, the morning time is so good. I heard a quote one time, you don't tune the instrument after the concert.

You tune it before. So that's first thing in the morning. You make sure you're in the right headspace to go be the person you want to be, go make the decisions you want to make. And I know you're big on a morning routine. So just for the people that are listening, that they want to change their life and they want to be more disciplined and install new habits.

How important is a morning routine? And kind of walk through yours. - Yeah, for me, it's extremely important because I heard a quote before. You can't be serious about life and serious about purpose and practice apathy in most areas of your life. So in order to be serious about life and actively transform your life and change your life, it requires intentionality.

You have to be intentional in every area of your life. So what that looks like for me is I just made a decision early on. I can't just let the day happen to me. And the way that I put it is I have to create the day. Like that's my goal every single day is to create the day.

Don't let the day happen to me. And what that looks like, what that looks like is taking control of my day. So it might look like waking up at 5 a.m., right? So like I joke about it all the time, but I know you're gonna wake, you usually wake up around 8, 8.30.

My Nicodemus usually wakes up about 7, 7.30. So I know I need to get everything done before then so that I can be completely available for Nicodemus, be completely available for you and completely available for any other thing that I need to take care of that day. So that requires me to wake up first thing in the morning.

What I do is now I go get in the cold plunge. So first things first, wake up, go straight to the cold plunge three minutes, right? That's gonna do a million different things, but the biggest thing for me strengthens my immune system, helps with mental clarity first thing in the morning, resets my circadian rhythm so that I get better sleep at night.

So I start there, it wakes me up, and then I'll do red light therapy for about 10 minutes. But I'm big on stacking habits because there's a million habits that you can practice. But for me, it's like, which ones can I stack? So while I'm doing 10 minutes of red light therapy, I'll either play worship music and worship, or that's my 10 minutes of uninterrupted prayer.

Because I think in order for me to maintain my identity, I have to connect to my source, right? So just like we wouldn't go on a road trip and leave our charger at home, I have to get charged up first thing every morning. You and I have talked about that from a discipline standpoint.

Sometimes you ask me, "How can you, "how do you stay so disciplined "and not do this and not do that?" And I tell you, I'm just like everybody else. I just make sure that I connect to the source first thing in the morning so that I have the right perspective and I know I need to get connected to the source.

So it's one day to the next. So cold plunge, red light therapy with prayer and worship, and then start knocking off stuff off my to-do list. And then once Nicodemus wakes up, then that's usually like from seven to, I drop him off at daycare around 8.30. That is my, I'm completely for the most part unavailable.

Like that's his time. So we'll make breakfast together. We'll sit, like he knows already. He'll, we'll watch worship. So we'll listen to one worship song and then we'll do one educational activity. Like for him right now, he's learning Spanish. So we'll watch like 30 minutes of Spanish while he's eating, but we'll make breakfast together.

And then after that, throughout the day, I set aside time for working out and professional development and all that. But that morning routine of getting the cold, red light therapy, prayer and worship, and then sunlight exposure. So then I'll walk out before he wakes up. If the sun is out, 10 minutes in the sun, and that's my time of gratitude.

So I've knocked out mind, body, and spirit together. And it takes about 30 to 45 minutes. And that's how I start my day. - That's amazing. I like what you said about connecting to the power source as well, because it's such a biblical principle of God gives you enough, like for the day.

Like you can do that routine for a year straight. And then if you took three or four days off, you wouldn't feel right because, or like even talking about like getting in the Word or your prayer time, you can pray for three days in a row, but that's not gonna last you for that fourth day.

It's like a daily. And the Bible, you know, God gave them enough manna for one day, and then it would go rotten. They would have to go recollect it the next day. I forget which guy it was, but he would go into prayer three times a day to reconnect, to refill himself up.

So it's not like, it's a daily walk, and it's a daily habit. And sometimes for me, and I think a lot of other people, it's like, you know, you might be doing so good in how you wanna be and what you wanna do for a week straight, but it's like a cycle.

You go through these ups and downs of, you do good, then you don't do good. Then you crawl out of it and you do good, then you don't do good. And I think that's that chaos in your life. If you can create the like, the order, then you'll see like the consistency and who you wanna be.

And I just think that I've seen it so much in my life because I hate the cycle 'cause I feel like a lot of people feel helpless when they're doing good or they're being who they wanna be for a couple of weeks, and then man, they have a bad three or four days, and then they start binging on something for a few days, and they crawl out of it.

You know what I mean? That's like the worst place to be in. - It's hard. Another part of that word order from the etymology of it is prioritization. And that's why I do that. I do the first things first. Journaling is a part of my morning routine, obviously, as well.

And I know you're big on journaling, but it's like, I have to do the first things first. I have to set something as a priority, and then everything else falls in line. So for me, like I said, it's connecting to God, it's spending time in worship, it's spending time with Nicodemus, it's spending time making sure that I'm taking care of myself so that I can provide the best, whatever it is, to the world.

And then along the lines of what you said, from a biblical perspective, one of the most profound things that I had ever seen in the scripture is that when Jesus started His ministry, we see the story of Him being baptized by John the Baptist, and that represents Him beginning His ministry.

And then that story goes, there's a dove that comes down from heaven, and God says, "This is my Son in whom I'm well pleased." So that stuck with me, because I realized that before Jesus took the steps to walk in His ministry, He received affirmation from the Father. And I just took that for me, that if I receive affirmation from God, I never have to function for affirmation from others.

Period. So it's either we're functioning from a place of affirmation or you're functioning for affirmation. And that's super hard for y'all. - Which is our whole life, I mean-- - Everything. - Our whole life, because you just have so much criticism, you have so much nitpicking on how you played.

- All of it. - But everything. I mean, if you're on social media, if you're posting pictures, what is that really for? That's usually for affirmation. - For sure. - 'Cause 99% of people, or maybe probably higher, live from a place of affirmation. That's such an unstable place, 'cause it's like, man, you're at the mercy of other people.

If you're an athlete, it's the worst. You got these young dudes, one of my good friends, retiring at such a young age, because they feel that pressure and they feel that anxiety, because they're getting their worth. And I feel like that only comes because they're playing for affirmation. They're getting their worth from basketball.

And I mean, every athlete struggles with it, 'cause it's such high stakes. It feels like the world's on your shoulders sometimes. So many people watch the games, but yeah, for guys in our position, that would be a game changer. And then it lets you play more free. - Free.

- It lets you, you're not playing to get the applause from the fans, to get the people commenting on your pictures after your game on Instagram. You're just hooping 'cause you want to hoop, and you know that's a gift God gave you. And that frees you up to then play better.

And it gives you a focus for your performance, right? So it's like, I'm not performing for your applause. I'm not performing for your cheers, 'cause I've already been affirmed from the Father. And the way that that looks like, I always try to take biblical principles and make it practical.

The way that I practice it with Nicodemus, he's only three years old. And before, like every day we'll do one activity when he gets home. Right now it's basketball or soccer. So before we even start the activity, I tell him, I love him and I'm proud of you. I was like, you know, Dada loves you.

You know, I'm proud of you, right? So I never, so he never has to come to me and ask me if I'm proud of him because of how well he played. So I always, and I told myself, like I have this list in my phone of things that I have to do.

And that's one of the things. I always affirm him before the activity, even if it's a learning activity, 'cause he's at the age now where he's like, Dada, are you proud of me? And I remind him, I said, son, I was proud of you before we even started. Remember Dada told you he loved you?

I told you I was proud of you. So now, 'cause he's three and he's already, are you proud of me? Dada, give me a high five. I told you that before we started. So you don't ever have to perform for that 'cause you've already been affirmed before. - Right, that's cool.

One thing I want to touch on that I think is really unique about you is because you are, and one of the reasons that I, you know, wanted you in my life is because I felt like I always kind of lacked in, I'm disciplined in certain areas. You know, I'm disciplined in the weight room and on the court, things like that, but I'm undisciplined and I'm very unintentional in other areas, and I saw that in you.

So you've been like this for a long time, one of the most disciplined people, you know, very habit-oriented. You have never had a sip of alcohol and you've never smoked or any of that in your life. Where did that come from and how do you keep that up? I think you even said you've never even seen pornography before.

- Yeah. - Like, how did, yeah, how is that possible? - Well, younger years, it was a promise that I made to my mom, right? And then you get older, you get past the adolescence and you have a decision on your own. - But talk about, I mean, you were in a frat, you know?

- Yeah. - They have the initiation and stuff like that. How did you stay strong in all of these convictions that you had and, yeah? - Bro, it's crazy that I don't, I don't know. I think it's always been from a young age, my never wanting to disappoint God and my parents.

And you know me now, like that might be one of my greatest weaknesses is I don't like disappointing people, right? So it's like, you'll sacrifice everything for others just so that you don't disappoint them. And then sometimes you can end up losing yourself. That's a whole nother story, but it was, I never wanted to disappoint my parents.

I never wanted to disappoint God. I remembered how hard life was early on and I never wanted to go back to that. And I just associated things like drinking, smoking, getting caught up in this and that and this and that as not leading me in the right direction, right?

Because for me, I think discipline is simply knowing what to say yes to and what to say no to. So I always, I just made a decision early on, I was gonna say yes to, I knew that I was created to do something special. I didn't know what it was, but I'd always ask myself, is this gonna get me closer to whatever it is that I'm supposed to do?

Or is it gonna get me further away? It wasn't hard, being in a fraternity, being a part of Phi Beta Sigma, on the campus of Baylor University, like it wasn't, it's not easy, but I did it. I was fortunate though, in that my closest circle of friends to this day, Curtis Opara, Nathaniel Higgins, my brother Gary, for a little while, I had some very, very close friends who, they all accepted me for who I was though too.

They were always like, "Nicodemus doesn't do that, "that's not what he does," and they let me be me. I think I told you, and I realized early on how important having the right people in your ecosystem is, because they never, it was easy because obviously my brother knew what I was all about, and we went to Baylor together, so he was right there.

But then when you have friends, and they also know that's not what Nicodemus is about, 'cause I said it, I made it known early on, and they never, I didn't really have to deal with that peer pressure from them, 'cause they knew what it was. So my friends helped me stay consistent, because I wasn't getting that 24/7 pressure from them.

It was a little bit easier then. I think when I was in college is when Facebook really started getting poppin', so I didn't have like the pressure to be cool on social, and to socially do this and that, and this and that. But I just, I knew early on, my mom tells me this story all the time, at like four years old, I would stand on the table in a restaurant, and my name is Nicodemus, which is the story of Nicodemus going to Jesus by night, and Jesus saying, "You must be born again." So I would stand on the table and be like, "You must be born again," right?

This is before I even know, so I just, I knew that there was a calling on my life early, and I just tried to do everything that I could. You and I have talked about it, I made a million mistakes. You know, there's a million other mistakes that you can make other than smoking, and drinking, and watching pornography, those are just the three that I've had the mental fortitude not to do.

- And now you're married, you know, you got little Nicodemus, and I've seen it. We'll be out, you know, and there's sometimes girls around, and things like that, and they'll approach you, they'll come up to you, and, "Are you single? "My friend really likes you," things like that. And not even just athletes, but the majority of men, when they have, you know, pretty girls approaching them, and things like that, it is very hard, especially, you know, you're on the road, got your own hotel room, you know, you could do something, nobody knows about it.

Like, I know that's something that in my profession, and just in my realm of, that's something that people struggle with, you know? I really respect a dude who gets married, and then he stays faithful, because for me, I'm not getting married until I've developed the discipline to know for a fact I could be faithful to one woman for the rest of my life, but you, I've seen it over and over.

You kind of, like, have a firm, like, barrier, like, no. And you're cool with a lot of these girls. Like, you're friends with females, and things like that, but it never crosses a certain line. Is that discipline that you have to develop? Or is it just something you've always had?

Or is it like a daily, is it like a daily thing? - Right, it's getting connected to that source first thing in the morning. 'Cause when we talk about discipline, I tell you, like, I have to stay connected to God. 'Cause apart from Him, shoot, there's nothing under the sun that I wouldn't do, 100%.

Like, most people, they'll put up this fake facade. I'm just like everybody else. The only thing that keeps me set apart is the fact that I connect to God on a daily basis, and get a vision for my life, and just say yes to what leads me to that vision, and no to what takes me away from that vision.

And then, you've heard me talk about Dr. Miles Monroe. I think I quoted him earlier. He said something that stuck with me that I heard years ago. He said, "Make sure that your private life "is safe enough for public consumption." - 100%. - And you look at some of the greatest athletes in the world, you look at some of the greatest CEOs in the world, you look at some of the greatest politicians in the world, at some point, what happened in the dark came to light.

- Is that the dude that you gave me his book? - The book, yeah, "Kingdom Principles," yeah. - Well, there was one, there was a book, I think you might have given me. - "The Power and Character of Leadership." - Yeah, is that him? - Yeah, he wrote that book as well, yeah.

- Because I was reading that book, and it was so true that it doesn't matter how big you get, how much money you have, how much influence you have, like, you can lose so much credibility, you can lose all these things in a moment of weakness, and I know for a lot of dudes, for a lot of dudes, it's the lust thing, you know, they got a wife, but, you know, they may slip up here or here, or, and it's just, it's such a hard thing to keep intact, and, you know, I joke around a lot about, maybe we weren't supposed to be monogamous, you know, maybe, like, you know, back in the day when these dudes had all these wives and all these concubines, like, it really is against our biology to be with one woman, like, the rest of our life, like, that takes a certain amount of discipline, it really does, and I see it from you, and I've seen it from my dad, so I know it's possible, but a lot of guys, they never get that discipline, and I just think, like, in this day and age, like, marriage is not really, like, a coveted thing anymore, like, it's like, people don't really want that, you know, and it's just, it's cool to see.

- It's not easy, though, bro, it's difficult, but like I said, you have to stay connected to the source, and you have to have something that's greater than that, because you think about it, like, you sleep with one woman while you're married, what's gonna stop you from sleeping with the next woman, right?

Then you start a pattern, and those patterns start to predict where you're gonna go in the future, so then that's gonna be what your future looks like, so instead of even starting that pattern, and for me, I know I have addictive behaviors, that's the other reason why I don't smoke, and I didn't drink, and didn't watch pornography, and don't cheat on my wife, is 'cause I know I have addictive behaviors, and I will naturally, our inclination is to satisfy our flesh by whatever means, and I will become addicted to whatever pattern I start, so I just err on the side of not starting those patterns whatsoever, and then the other thing is, now, is like, I couldn't even imagine having that conversation with Nicodemus II, ever.

Like, there's nothing that, I don't even know how I would approach having to go to him and say, well, I cheated on your mom, this is why, da-da-da-da-da. Like, I couldn't even bring myself to have that conversation with him, so that's a part of it now, too. - 100%.

Do you think you just have to find a girl who would work for that specific marriage? 'Cause for me, I know, with my career, what I'm doing, I need a girl who's gonna hold it down at the crib, who, when I do wanna have children, she's there for them, and I'll go out and provide financially, and she can, I guess that's more traditional, and I feel like that's just kind of being lost.

What is your thoughts on that? - It comes down to managing expectations. Like, and that's one of the things where, for you, that's one of the things that you've taught me quite a few things, but bro, one of the biggest things that you've taught me is the ability to be unapologetically 100% authentic, right?

So, anybody who enters a relationship with you, especially a relationship that's going to end in marriage, like, you will have, at some point, communicated your beliefs and your expectations for that marriage. - It'll make me to roll with it or not. - Hands down, right? Like, you are unapologetically, you're you, and you're very strong in what you believe you're gonna say it, and it's like, this is who I am?

Like, this is the type of woman I want to raise my kids? If that's not you, then it's not you, straight up. That's healthy, though. That's healthy, and I think a lot of marriages and a lot of relationships fail because you don't manage those expectations. Like, you've taught me that, and you've helped me.

This is what I expect. This is what my expectations are for marriage. This is expectations for our morals and values. This is where we believe. Where do you stand on that? How do you stand on that? It literally comes down to managing expectations, because there might be somebody else who sits here and is like, my wife can do X, Y, Z, and I'll just sit back and, you know what I mean?

'Cause there's guys who believe completely opposite of what you believe, and they're gonna go get married, and they're gonna marry the woman that you don't wanna marry, but they've managed those expectations. You can't wait till you're married to have those conversations either. That's the one thing I appreciate about you.

Like, you might go on a date, you might have those first night over pasta. You might air it out night number one. Bro, we've been at business dinners, we've been at every type of dinner, any type of event, and I've seen you air it out to people that were just meeting at the table.

But that's, I mean, the manager side of me sometimes is like, oh, well, this business deal is over. But you being my brother and my friend, I respect that so much, because it's like, you set the expectation, and that's who you are, you know what I mean? So if you don't do that in a marriage, it's gonna fail, straight up.

You don't get five years down the line and then something pops up and you've already said, I do, and now you're trying to figure it out. And you definitely can't wait till you have kids, because then you're trying to mold this human being, and if you're trying to mold this human being into two separate types of values and core beliefs, that's when it gets difficult.

- I agree. Sierra, have you and Christian had this conversation? - We're doing this book right now, 101 Questions to Ask Before You Get Engaged, and it talks about a lot of things. - Are you gonna be okay with taking his last name, or is he gonna have to take-- - Yeah, I don't have a problem with it.

(laughing) - All right, good. All right, my last question for you, bro, is we've talked about peace, we've talked about identity, we've talked about purpose and all these things. For you specifically, what do you believe to be your purpose on this earth? Do you believe you're fulfilling it as we speak, and what are your goals?

- Yeah, no, I definitely think I'm fulfilling it as we speak. That's a great question. It took me 30 plus years to figure out what my purpose was, and it's interesting, from the day, I almost still remember around the time or the season where I figured it out, and how things just continually started to improve from a mental standpoint, spiritual standpoint, just holistically, all the way around.

For me, my purpose is to help people walk from vision to value, right? So that's why I keep talking about identity, because I think that if you don't have a vision, it's to help people discover their vision for their life, and then once you've gotten to the point to where you've discovered the vision for your life, help you to produce value, the value that that vision or your purpose predestines you to produce.

And I think that there's two sides of value. So there's the value that you produce for the marketplace or the industry that you're in, but then on the flip side is there's an exchange of value. When I produce value, I receive value, right? From the most simple terms, if you're looking for a professional athlete, if I'm producing this value that comes in a form of performance for the National Basketball Association, in return, I'm gonna receive a contract that shows the value that I'm producing.

So for me, it's simply put, it's like helping people walk from vision to value, right? And along those steps, it takes discovery of who you are, it takes development, it takes finding a way to deliver that value to the right marketplace, to the right people, and then in return, receiving that value that you've delivered to the marketplace.

So that's where I function every single day. - Well, man, I feel like you dropped a lot of knowledge for everybody to listen to and even for me. So go get that book. What's the book called again? - Out of Order. - Out of Order. I've already started it and it's really good.

Something I'm definitely implementing in my own life. So go cop that book, Out of Order, and I appreciate you being on the podcast. - Likewise. You gotta tell people about our situation in the weight room in college. - Oh yeah, I was gonna, 'cause me and him almost weren't friends 'cause I almost had to put hands on him is what he's talking about.

This is all the way back. You know, I weigh 230 now, but I probably was what, like 190 at Mizzou? And I almost whooped him because this is, I'm gonna tell it from my perspective, then you can tell it from your perspective. - Please do. - So I got hurt already, so you know what I mean?

I'm, throughout the course of the season, I'm, you know, doing my rehab, getting my extra weight room sessions in, this and that. I hit Nick up before a game like, yo, let's get this extra lift in, whatever. Meanwhile, these dudes in Mizzou, you know, I don't know about other schools, but in Mizzou, they were trying to make us go to class.

Now, I would finesse my way out of it. I would, you know, go until the class checkers came and then I would dip. But they had us trying to go to class, tutors. People always ask me, like, did I get paid to go to Mizzou? I didn't get anything.

And they're still trying to make me go to class. So they had me doing the most. So I hit him like, yo, let's get this extra lift in before this game. And meanwhile, I just got done with tutoring. Like, my tutoring session went forever. And so I showed up five minutes late to the lift and this dude is already like, he has an attitude.

Like, he's already putting up the equipment, whatever. So I'm walking away, I'm like, bro, what are you doing? Like, I'm hot because I already was mad that I was at tutoring. So I walk in the way, I'm like, what are you doing? And then he like, says something crazy.

So we end up about to scrap, really. Like, I forget like, how close we got, but I think like, I started talking crazy to you, you started talking crazy to me. And like, it was really about to like, go down. Like, that's from my perspective. - That's definitely not how it happened.

Okay, so the truth of it, 'cause I was talking to C before we even started, I was like, I wonder if Michael is gonna go there and tell that story. But yeah, so from my perspective, you did. Kudos to you, you hit me up and wanted to get an extra lift.

So obviously, I take the time to get there before you're there. I set it up and all that. I look at the clock, you're late. So because you're late, lift is over. It's donezo, just straight up. So I start putting this stuff away. When I start putting this stuff away, that's when you walk in the weight room and you're like, what's good or whatever.

I was like, no lift. You're like, what do you mean? I was like, you're late. And then that's when you, he started raising his voice. You talk about, what are you doing? I'll never forget. I remember that's how it started. You were like, what are you doing? And then you just went in.

You started talking crazy, crazy. Like, what are you doing? Bro, you tripping. And I'm like, I'm young, obviously. So I'm like, I'm not the one. So I start going back. You start getting louder. And you're like, you got me messed up. So then that's when I remember I closed the weight room doors.

'Cause that's when we got to, it was about to get hectic. I closed the weight room doors and I was like, so how you want to handle this, right? I'm professional, yes. But I'm like, okay, so how you want to handle this? You're like. And we went on and on and on and on for a little bit.

And then, but bro, I always, it's funny when you tell that story because people are asking me like, how did you and Mike get to the point to where you guys have the relationship that you have and you have trust? I'm like, because, like, we've gone, there's nothing that we haven't gone through.

Like, we have confrontations with each other. We push each other to be the best, point blank, period. So that's why I know that I can trust him and he knows that I can trust, we can trust each other. So bro, with that, yeah, dude lost his mind that day.

I'm like, what are you doing? You got me messed up. Nah, I'm lifting. You're trying to tell me what to do in my weight room. - So what would have happened if we got to scrapping, you think? 'Cause at that point, I was pretty strong. - I would have dropped you.

(laughing) I would have dropped you. - And you can ask her, see, when I get-- - See, cut the camera. You don't even, I would have dropped you. - When I get mad, how strong do I get? - Oh, you get pretty strong. (laughing) - I used to get bad.

- Yeah, but that doesn't mean that you, I mean, I'm sure, you know, we do the boxing and stuff in the off season, so I'm sure your hands are improved, but you would have got dropped. - It's cool. Nah, you are pretty broad. - Well, we'll find your picture up here, and your size, your pressure point.

- I still have his before picture, too, that we took. I'll send it to you. - And let people decide who they think would have won. - That's funny. - Well, I appreciate you, bro. - Nah, I appreciate you having me on, bro. - Yes, sir. (hip hop music) - I always just think about, like, when you get mad, and you try to throw me over the banister.

- I was young. I was like, four, I was like-- - You were not four, 'cause we were in the second house, I think. - No, we were in the-- - 'Cause the banister was at the house of Fishers. - Dude tried to throw you over a banister? - Yes, we had a banister.

- I was a young boy. She had me so high. - And then you go up the stairs, and the banister was in the hallway, hardwood floor down there. - Ay, yo! - This guy walked in here on me, trying to lift me over the banister. I was like, what the, I think it's 'cause I took his lightsaber or something.

I was freaking, I was so hot. - Dude was heated.