I write the script in December, January, Josh Arnett, Marlee Shelton, come down, fly Frank in, shooting for 10 hours on my green screen. We shoot that opening sequence. Incredible opening sequence. And the visual look, we've never seen that. I want to just take this and make it move. I just want the comic to move.

Any other studio would just go make it look like any gritty crime movie and they would miss the point that the visual is half of it. I want it to look just like this because it would be the boldest movie anyone's seen because that's how it reads when I read the book.

It's like, if this was moving, it would be the most phenomenal movie. Just by being around him and working with him, you get, by osmosis, you learn stuff. And it just ups your game because they're just swing way beyond you. Jim Cameron was like that. So like when I first met him, I was trying to impress the hell out of him, you know, because I was such a big fan.

I was about to go do Desperado and I went, hey, I just took a three-day Steadicam course because I can't afford a Steadicam operator. So I'm going to operate Steadicam myself on Desperado. Now, if he was just my peer, he'd say, oh, I did the same thing and I'm going to do the same thing.

That would be like hanging out with somebody of your ilk, but you don't, you want somebody who's above that. Do you know what he said? He goes, I bought a Steadicam, but not to operate it. I'm going to take it apart and design a better one. Us mere mortals trying to learn how to operate the camera.

He's designing all new systems. That's the guy you want to hang out with. Not someone who's doing what you're doing. We put so much of the world around them. Like when you see the city, we put like a blue screen way in the back to just make the city keep going.

But we built the sets there, the town, we built the real set. So everything was very tangible and real. And that way she had to fit into that world and be as real as that. Because if it was all done in CG, well, then now you can fudge everything.

But if you put her in a real environment, that's a real challenge. And just like with our movies, you watch it all fall apart. You watch this thing blow up. You watch this thing not work. Everything just falls apart in front of your face. Then that's when you roll up your sleeves and creatively figure out a way around it.

And by the end, you have a result that's better than what you sought out. Sift through the ashes of your failure and you'll find the key to your next success is in there. But if you're not looking for it, you don't find it. The following is a conversation with Robert Rodriguez, a legendary filmmaker and creator of Sin City, El Mariachi, Desperado, Spy Kids, Machete, From Dusk Till Dawn, Alita, Battle Angel, The Faculty, and many more.

Robert inspired a generation of independent filmmakers with his first film, El Mariachi, that he famously made for just $7,000. On that film, and many since, he was not only the director, he was also the writer, producer, cinematographer, editor, visual effects supervisor, sound designer, composer, basically the full stack of filmmaking.

He has shown incredible versatility across genres, including action, horror, family films, and sci-fi. With some epic collaborations with Quentin Tarantino, James Cameron, and many other legendary actors and filmmakers. He has often operated at the technological cutting edge, pioneering using HD filmmaking, digital backlots, and 3D tech. And always, through all of that, he's been a champion of independent filmmaking, running his own studio here in Austin, Texas, which, in many ways, is very far away from Hollywood.

He's building a new thing now, called Brass Knuckle Films, where he's opening up the filmmaking process so that fans can be a part of it, as he creates his next four action films. I'll probably go hang out at his film studio a bunch, as this is all coming to life.

His work has inspired a very large number of people, including me, to be more creative in whatever pursuit you take on in life, and have fun doing it. This is the Lex Friedman Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Robert Rodriguez.

Has there been a time when there was like one take, and you only have one take to get it right? Oh, all the time, where you're just like, or just you know how long it'll take to reset, and you're just, but then you know what you, you, you gotta just work with what you got, you know, you gotta look with, work with your results.

You get nervous, or no, in that moment? Oh, yeah, you're, you're nervous going like, just, I hope it goes off, because then, to fix it, I'll have to go do a bunch of other steps, which we don't have time for. But a lot of times, you know, I've just learned that if something happens, it's just meant to be that way.

And, uh, and I got used to doing things in one take, and just living with it, it didn't bother me. One movie, it was even a low-budget movie, they had, um, rigged a car to implode, because I was going to throw a guy at it. So we needed a car to implode, and then we're going to throw them and marry it together, right?

And, um, the stunt, and the, the car guy goes, yeah, we're going to have three cars rigged. Three cars? Why are you not, well, in case one doesn't work, and then we have a second one, I have to throw them. We said, we don't have all night to go shoot take after take.

We're doing just, just get one car, and if it doesn't work, we'll figure it out. You know, because you don't have time to do it again sometimes. It's such a long setup. So I'll go, no, I'm, I'm good with just going, what, in a grindhouse movie, they only had one take, so that'll make it more authentic.

When it all goes to shit, when it fails, you just, what's the next thought? So I'll tell you, two things happen on Just Till Done. First was, okay, you know how those explosions, when somebody walks away in slow motion from an explosion, that's become kind of, you know, that started with Desperado?

Desperado's the first. If you look at all the montages, Desperado's the first. That's right. That is the meme. Because it was an accident, it was just supposed to be, it was just two grenades, not a nuclear bomb. He throws them over the side, and I just wanted, like, some body parts or, you know, something to fly up, some shrapnel.

It literally says shrapnel, and my effects guy was so ragged, running so ragged, we get to there, and I go, do you have any body parts of stuff we can throw up, or something you can shoot up? Pat, I didn't realize it's so high to get past that second floor.

He's like, no, I don't. I can give you a fireball. I can give you a nice, you know, fireball with propane, but it burns away really quick. Like, how fast? Like that, but it'll be big and orange. Okay, we'll shoot it in slow motion, so it lasts a little longer, because it just goes poof.

So I told the actors, I know how big this fireball is going to be, but just walk really fast, and just look real determined, and then just keep walking. Don't stop and turn around, because you might get your eyebrows singed. So they take off, and boom, it goes, and in slow motion, it looks great, right?

I remember showing it Jim Cameron before it came out, and his hand went up, like, you've never seen that before, you know. Six months later, Dust Till Dawn came out. So I liked how much it looked so much that in Dust Till Dawn, I did it again. So those movies came out within six months of each other.

That's why it turned into a thing, because people saw it. And so I thought, how about for the opening of George Clooney and Quentin walking out of the gas station, that we have the whole place just blowing up, and they just keep talking like it's not happening. You know, like, take it another step further, so I'm not just doing the same thing.

Okay, that one, it's like, okay, you're going to walk out, and it's all in one take. So we're only going to do one take. We're going to blow the thing up. We're going to start with just, you know, some smaller explosions, and then when they're further away, and it's safer, then we'll do the big fireballs.

So we're going, and you're nervous, because like, if one of them trips up a line, and you know, the pressure's on them, it's not just you that's nervous. You're nervous for them. They're the ones who got to walk out, do that whole speech, get in the car, and drive away.

What if the car doesn't start? What do you know? There's a lot of things that could happen. Well, guess what happens? The thing you would not expect, they go in, they come out, they start talking, shoot it. It's perfect. Great. We can move on. And the camera guy goes, I don't know what happened, but just like you had a little snafu here, he goes, we have an autofocus on the steadicam.

I mean, we have a focus thing. It just went like this. I felt it go whack all the way out of focus, and whack for a second back. Like, it just reset itself. I don't know why it did that, you know, because it's radio controlled. And we can't tell because we're shooting film, you know, sort of like, oh, shit, let's watch the dailies, sure enough.

Let's see if we can get, maybe I can scratch the film right there. No, it goes completely out of focus and back in focus within a second. Now we got to reshoot it. So we had to wait till we're back in that location. We rigged it for two more takes, just in case.

So that thing that was supposed to be the one take is three takes. The other thing that happened was the front of the Dust Till Dawn bar was that same guy that did those explosions. He packed a bunch of explosives behind the actors. When the actors come running out of the, of the bar at the end of the movie, and there's an explosion through the door because all the vampires are blowing up.

He didn't just, he put like 10 times. So it blew out. You see it in the movie. You see this huge fireball going up. And if you watch closely, you see it already start to catch the whole place on fire. The whole front of that, which is foam catching on fire.

And I cut just before you see that it's on fire. And we, that was the first shot at that bar. Cause we weren't going to start shooting the other stuff till night. So the first shot is that, and the sets ruined burned or crisp. The neon lights blew up.

So we couldn't even shoot. Cheech goes, well, I guess I'm not doing my speech tonight. And, but right away, this is what, this is what happens. My first AD, Doug Arnachowski comes over to me and I go over to him. The guys came out with the fire hoses, the fire hoses weren't even adding water.

It was like, the thing was just scorching. The whole production design team was in tears because they had just spent weeks building this thing and it was up in smoke and charred. I said, let's just keep shooting. Let's just keep shooting because it looks really kind of cool like this.

Yeah. They're going to have to come repair it and we'll have to come back, but it's all black and charred. That's why that whole scene with George Clooney and Cheech and that the building's black. We didn't go over there and touch that up. That's real flame that burned and it ended up looking great.

So then the next week when we came back to shoot that other shot that didn't work, we came back and they had repaired it and we shot all the night stuff, which is the majority of the stuff in front of it. So sometimes you got to roll with it and then, and look, look at the blessing you get because of this mistake.

You probably actually got a better take by doing it later with them. And then you had this incredible look for the end of the movie that looked apocalyptic. If it had looked just clean, you would have actually seen that it was kind of a foam set. This made it look better.

So I kind of let the universe push you where you're supposed to go. Just roll with it. You got to roll with it because you don't know what the grand plan is. You have your plan. Just know it's probably all going to fall apart. It's just like the movies.

You come up with your plan of what you want to accomplish. That's like your script. Then you go scout your location and figure out what your project's going to be, you know, and you go try to make it as bulletproof as possible. Then you go to do your project.

And just like with our movies, you watch it all fall apart. You watch this thing blow up. You watch this thing not work. Everything just falls apart in front of your face. Then that's when you roll up your sleeves and creatively figure out a way around it. You turn chicken shit into chicken salad.

And by the end, you have a result that's better than what you sought out. But that's the process and that's life. And that's wash, rinse, repeat. The rest of your life, that's what everything's going to be like. It's just like a movie. Because when you think about it, you're writing a story for a film.

And you're also writing the story of your life at the same time. Like how are you going to react to things? Well, how do you make your character react to things? You make him kind of superhuman. Why don't you just make yourself that way? You're writing your own story.

And you start really seeing the more you get into storytelling that life imitates art and art limitates life, but the process is also the same. So you write the story, the script, and then you have it collide with the chaos of reality. And in that moment, when you said you see the chicken shit, like you have to be able to keep your eyes open.

You have to do that. You have to do that. Wait a minute. Okay. Stuff changed. Discipline. Where's the, not to be cliche about it, but where's the silver lining of this? Where's the path to actually make something good out of this? And that's a skill, right? I call it, and it's one of my favorite stories.

I was doing one of these talks and they said, come talk about creativity. I go, I understand. Cause a lot of people read my book, rebels had a crew and told me, Oh, it made me be a filmmaker. But a lot of people said it helped me start my own business because they just see how you can go be entrepreneurial like that and go where no one else is going.

And I'm giving all this talk about this kind of positive stuff. And this one woman goes, you're real positive, but what do I tell myself when I just wasted a year and a half of my life doing something that didn't work? And I was like, that's a real negative way to ask that.

Can you just rephrase the question a little more positively before I even attempt to answer it? Because already her point of view is, is exactly what you're saying. She's not looking at all. She's just concentrating on what, what didn't follow her plan and not seeing the gift of everything else that's there.

So she goes very reluctant. So perfect. I wish we had filmed it. She goes, I learned a good lesson the hard way. And I said, that still sucks. And I say, when you follow your instinct, like if you follow your own instinct to go start a business or go make this movie or that, it wasn't someone saying go over there and you'll make a million dollars.

You know, it was your instinct and you fail. Sometimes the only way across the river is to slip on the first two rocks. You fail. You have to really sift through. It's like the silver lining, but I call it sift through the ashes of your failure and you'll find the key to your next success is in there.

But if you're not looking for it, you don't find it. I'm going to tell you one. And I tell them the four room story. I said, I made a movie called four rooms. I didn't make any money. Right. When Quentin asked me, Hey, would you want to make a movie with me and two other filmmakers?

It's an anthology. It's on new year's Eve. It's in a hotel. You have to use the bill hop. We're not going to know what each other's making. And we make it, we put it together. My hand went up right away. Just instinctually. That sounds, yeah, I'll do that. I'll go make that with you.

Now, should I ask the audience? I like to throw it to the audience and her. Should I have not raised my hand that quick? Shouldn't I have done a little studying first or should I just go blind instinct or should you do instinct with some studying? Okay. Well, I could have gone and studied and I would have found that anthologies never work.

Like even when it's Coppola, Scorsese, Woody Allen, they bomb because people can't quite rip their hand. What is this? Twilight Zone? I don't want to go see that. But that's not, I still said, yeah, I think I should still go by instinct. So my instinct was to raise my hand.

Will you go make that movie? Because I love short films. I made like bedhead in short films and I thought, oh, here's a way. If this works, I can make short films in anthologies and I can have the best of both worlds. And by the way, anthologies is when there's multiple.

More than multiple one story. In one movie. Yeah, one movie. So if you did the research, you would know that very few people ever got that to work. Yeah. The audience can't quite wrap their hand and it feels like the movie starting three times, you know? So I make that movie.

It bombs. Now I could feel real bad about that, but if you really think about it, you go, well, why did I sign up for it? Did I raise my hand because I thought it was going to go be this big financial success? No, I did it to work with my friends, to do something creative, to try something, but that's still not good enough.

I need to really sift through the ashes. And if I looked into the ashes of that failure, I find two keys to my biggest successes in there. While I was on the set, they said it has to be New Year's. So I thought, I'm just going to do like bedhead.

I'm going to have two little kids that are running around in this room and we have to use the bellhop as a babysitter. Well, it's New Year's. Let's dress everybody in tuxedos because it's New Year's. They're all going to go out, but the parents leave without him. When I saw Antonio and his wife, I thought, wow, they look like a really cool international spy couple.

What if they were spies? And these two little kids, one of them keeps falling asleep on the set. He's so young. They barely tie their shoes. They don't know parents are spies. They have to go save them. Okay. There's five of those movies now, right? The other one was I really love making short films.

I really want this anthology thing to work. What if it's three stories, like a three extra, not four, same director, not four different directors. I'm going to try it again. Why on earth would I try it again? Well, because I'd already done one and figured out how I could do it better.

And that's Sin City. Those are by far two of my biggest successes that came directly from that failure. So I always say, follow your instinct. If it doesn't work, just go. Sometimes the only way across the river is to slip on the first two rocks. So what is, where's the key in that, in the ashes of the failure?

Because if I had an instinct, that means I was on the right track. I didn't get the result I want. That's because the result might be something way bigger that I don't have the vision for, and the universe is pushing me that way. By the way, a lot of people that look back to four rooms see a lot of creative genius in there.

So you say it flopped. It flopped financially. Financially. But there's so many ways to measure success. Totally. But like I said, I would say, well, it was successful because even Roger Ubert said, hey, you furnished my favorite room. I was like, yeah, that's, I could take that. But now that I think there's something else still there.

I keep sifting in this, like, oh yeah, two big successes came from that. It's an amazing lesson to have because it makes you feel better about failure. Think of like The Thing by John Carpenter. You put that movie out the same weekend as E.T. That thing bombed. Critics were calling it pornography, you know, because of all the weird special effects and audiences didn't go either.

And he thought he made a great movie. So, you know, it makes you question your instincts. Well, 10 years later, turns out, oh, it's a classic. So sometimes it takes the audience a while. So if you have some kind of failure on something, you don't let it knock you down.

Just go, maybe in 10 years, they'll think it's great. I'm just going to commit to making a body of work, a body of work. Some will succeed, some will overperform, some will underperform. It's not your job. You just want to be a creative person. Just create, I tell you, just create, stop thinking about movie per movie and worrying so much about each one or project to project.

If you're a business person, just commit to making a body of work like an artist would do. And you don't, you don't know what the masterpieces are going to be or which, you know, someone's going to come and say, oh, that, that one that bombed. I, there is some really creative stuff in there and it's not for you to decide.

You just go and do it. And sometimes I think it takes some time to process the failure to make sense of it. Like, uh, uh, at least for me, don't rush making sense of what didn't work. What lessons do I take from it? How do I sift through the ashes?

As you said, like it takes time. You have to sleep on it. Sometimes it's right there. And then sometimes you come back, revisit it, you know, later. Cause you might not have had some information you have now that makes you look at it a lot differently. Like when I did, I just, uh, did the audio book for rebel without a crew.

Thank you for that. By the way, I hadn't read it since I wrote it. So I didn't remember a lot of the details and you actually it's voiced by you. I voiced it. So I was reading it real time. Yeah. I highly recommend people. Cause you comment, you add additional comments to it.

It's great. Most of the time I'm laughing because I can't believe how crazy that story is. I forgot a lot of details. And when you're younger, you know, when you're 21, 22, six months feels like six years. I didn't realize how short that window was until I reread it and how impossible most that is.

But you see some places where a setup falls in my lap and then pays off immediately in a big way, like magic over and over again. It's clear. I don't know what I'm doing. It's clear. The universe is just pushing you places. So you can't fight it because I remember I was really disappointed.

And it says in the, in the diary, I'm really bummed that I go home that Christmas, not having sold it to the Spanish home video market, which was my goal. I walked home penniless and I was like, Merry Christmas. I feel like a frigging failure. Good thing. I didn't sell it then.

No, you know, with time you look back and you go, wow, I got an agent the next month. He wasn't even going to help me sell it. He said, Oh, if you can get 20,000 for it, take it. I chased those people down for those contracts to Spanish market for months.

And they never answered me back. And then Columbia ended up buying it for like 10 times as much. And we made it re we released it and did a sequel and did another sequel. If you look back in time, good thing. I didn't get my way. My way had had this for a vision and it needed to do that, which you would never know.

You know, you don't know that going through. So just if you don't have the answer right away, or even in 10 years ago, maybe it's coming in 20 years. Don't let anything slow you down. Just keep plowing forward, committing to making your thing happen. Don't, don't get shook up by something that you might not have an answer for.

Yeah. Every aspect of your journey is super inspiring. We'll talk about it. Let's go to the beginning. There's a few technical things that are fascinating about your beginning. So you started making films when you're very young with an old super eight camera and you were editing on a VCR.

You see, I've met a lot of filmmakers who, you know, they start a certain way, but then they finish another way. They get to be big filmmakers and all that. I still do it that way. Like I still, I like doing things that way. I have a new company called brass knuckle films where the audience can actually participate by investing in this movie and investors in these movies that are done the same way.

They're action films like we did with Mariachi, but 10 to 30 million. It doesn't take a lot of money to start a billion dollar franchise. You know, like John Wick only cost 20 million. The first one, second one was 40. Third one was 80. Fourth one was a hundred because the audience kept growing and growing.

By the way, you say, you know, 20 million, like it's not in a lot of money. We should mention an action film. Yeah, that's right. But also we should say that El Mariachi, the, the, the film on which the book rebel without a crew is $7,000 movie. So let's put it all in context.

But you know, you know, you're going to hire bigger actors. You can get a big actor, like Tiana Reeves for a $20 million movie. You know, I asked Jim, I said, Jim Cameron, I said, you know, like Terminator costs 5 million. And he goes, I wish we had that much.

He had less than 5 million for that. So you can start a billion dollar franchise using these methods. And, uh, and with the audience investing, they get to make money on them. And this is what I'm going to say now about how I started. You see that DNA of how I give out, you know, I want people to know how I did things with rebel without a crew or with these methods that I started with.

You see, that's how we kept going. Hollywood spends way too much. And when you can make stuff for less, your profit margin is much better. So when I first started, I didn't have any money. So I still play like I don't have money. So I had super eight, my dad had a super eight camera, but I couldn't afford it.

I shot two rolls that you had to get to, you had to buy the film, shoot two minutes. I shot two rolls of that. It's another same amount of money that it costs to buy it, whatever that was, 12 bucks or whatever to develop it. You get it. There's no sound.

Most of the shit's out of focus, you know, but then my dad who sold cookware had a VCR, one of the first VCRs, home VCRs for the market that he would play his sales tapes to his salesman. And it came with a camera attached like this cable you got coming out.

Imagine if that had to go into your VCR for you to even see what it's shooting. And this is old camera, manual focus, manual iris and 12 foot cable. And I would start making movies with that instead. Now I have for $8, I have a two hour erasable tape of sound and picture.

So I got into digital basically really early. I was doing, which was really frowned upon back then and continued to be all the way to when I was using it for real in the early 2000s before everyone realized, oh, that's the future. Yeah. That's fascinating. Cause you were rebel in that way too, using digital.

Yeah. Well, cause of the means and the democratizing of that, the elite didn't like that. You could just go make a movie like that, but I started practicing and it's much easier to practice when it doesn't cost any money. Like if you want to be a rock star, right?

If you want to learn how to play guitar really well, you're not going to just jump on stage and suddenly go to play. You have to practice to your fingers bleed. Well, the same with movies, you got to keep telling stories and cutting them together. And you just can't afford that on film.

Nobody can with two minute roll costing as much as a two hour tape. So I was moving all these, doing all these movies. First, I would cut in camera and that VCR, that old VCR had a really great pause button that they stopped making that when you hit pause, it stopped right there.

And it stopped with a clean cut. It didn't have all this color bars like the later ones had. So I, that was my, and it had an audio dub feature where you could add another second soundtrack to it. So if I have people talking, I could hit audio dub and add sound effects.

So I could have two tracks on the same one. So I, that was my filmmaking kit for a while until I needed to start doing real editing. And my dad bought a second VCR for his business. Cause I stole his other one and I found that if I hooked them together, I could play on one and use that pause button on the second.

And this was the limitation. This would taught me how to edit in my head is that if I shot a bunch of footage, I needed to shoot very little footage so I could find it. Cause sometimes you shoot out of order. So when I cut it, I have to cut in linear order because if you push pause, it's a nice clean cut, but only, it only holds for five minutes.

You have five minutes before the machine shuts off. So you got to find your next shot within five minutes and do that. Otherwise, if you have to start the machine over, it added all these color bars and it would be all screwed up. So I'd have to sit there and not move for like all day while I cut knowing what the next shot was.

And once I had it cut, I would then add some sound effects to it. Remember, cause I have the audio dub function, but now if I want to add music, I take that tape, which has two tracks now into the first deck and put it into the VCR again, one generation of loss, but I have a little cassette tape player with the music and I do a Y splitter so I can add the music yeah.

Right. Just like that. That's like being resourceful with what you have. And I made a award winning short films that way on video. There were some festivals that would allow video, not many, but they would always win. And there were always funny as, uh, I stumbled upon spy kids that way.

Like I wanted to make these action movies in my backyard, but when you're a teenager, you don't know anybody who can come be your action star. And if you just bring your high school buddies, well, they just look like high school kids. So I use my little brothers and sisters cause I'm one of 10 third oldest.

They're just sitting around watching cartoons anyway. And I made them the action stars just to like learn. And I found those things would be a winning formula. They'd win every festival I'd send them to. So bedhead was my first time using a film camera. It was a windup film camera.

I got in film school. I went to film school for one semester and realized I already knew more than the film students. Cause they, they taught you a whole other outdated way of doing it. So I thought, I'm just going to use that film camera camera to make a, a low budget movie, a definitive film version that I can send to all film festivals of these action kids, which is a precursor to spy kids.

Bedhead is a precursor to spy kids. And we should say that bedhead was an award winning short film. That was probably a big sort of leap for you that probably opened the door to you to then make all your, your, your brain, especially because those video festivals, I would win like a trip to New York and a director's chair with a video shorts that I would put in festivals, but I knew the film festival, if I could get into film festivals, I could send that all over the world.

So I made that little short film, sent it and it was winning all the festivals. And I thought, wow, I made that with a wind up camera, film camera filming, just one take each shot, just no slates. Cause I'm the editor and that cost 800 bucks. And it was eight minutes.

I bet I can make an 80 minute movie for $8,000 if I'd use the same method. So that movie I did six months later, I was making mariachi because it opened up my mind to that. I could try it in a feature. Can we actually pause on that? Because I think a bad head has a really great, really unique story shot in a really unique way.

I think what I'm trying to say is like, it's very important to write, write the right script, write the right story. So let me tell you the trick to that. And mariachi is the same way. And this really helped people. Like even Kevin Smith from clerk said, wow, Robert said when mariachi was success, I talked about how I did it.

And I said, I, I, I looked at everything I had. What do I have? We have a pit bull. We have a turtle. We've got a bus that Carlos's cousin owns. His cousin is a brother has a brother-in-law has a bar and he owns a ranch. So the bad guy lives at the ranch.

The fight scene is going to be in the bar. He's going to hit a bus at one point. He's going to, the girl's going to have a dog and a turtle is going to cross the road. It gives you all this production value. So you write backwards. So for bedhead, I even did that with a camera.

So I've been shooting video all this time. And one thing I wished I could do on video, I never could with slow motion or stop motion even. So when I got that crappy world war two camera, they gave us in film school, I mean, I was so pissed. Like this is the camera I've been trying to get my hands.

I could have bought this for 50 bucks at a bond shop, old Bill and how wind up. You couldn't even see through the lens. You were seeing through an approximation of the lens, but you could shoot slow motion. I could do reverse photography. If I filmed upside down, I could do, cause if I do a fast push into her, I'll never get the focus in.

Right. So I started with it in focus, went back, pulled backwards on a chair and then reversed it, flipped it. And that looks like it stops on a dime and focus. Yes. The number of times I've seen you shoot backwards is incredible. Like to achieve a certain feeling, a certain experience, a certain, uh, certain effect, sometimes shooting in reverse, plus the sound effect layer, you can create this reality that's surreal.

Yeah. That then results in the story that you wanted. Like you have, you have to be functioning some kind of different space, time continuum. Start putting it together. Right. So I've got this different camera. Well, what now I go like, oh, no, I don't want to shoot the same kind of movie.

If I got a camera now that can do that, I can do stop motion. So that's why there's an animated title sequence at the beginning. Cause I go, wow, I I'm a cartoonist. If I set the camera up here, I can slow it down enough. It's not, it's not a frame by frame, but if I get it down like two frames a second, I can just tap it and it'll maybe get one frame off.

So I did 300 drawings by hand for that opening title sequence. Holy shit. That was, that was you doing it by hand. Yeah. So you watch that and this is a throwaway title sequence, but I really want to, this thing to win awards. Okay. Hold on a second. How long did that take to draw that?

That's a lot. That's a lot of work. I drew it. I drew it over. Well, I was a daily cartoonist by then, so I was pretty fast, but still it's, that's why it's only penciled. It's not inked, but it looks great. I mean, it's the cameras going around and all kinds of crazy stuff, but it's just all fake by paper.

I took me all night to shoot it. Cause I remember I walked into the film school the next day, you know, like all sleeping. And I told one of the fellow students, you know, wow, I was up all night doing this animated title sequence. And he went, why are you putting so much work in this?

They're not going to, they're not going to grade you any differently. And I was like, grades, get an A walking in here. I'm trying to get out of this town. I'm not doing this for fucking grades. I got, I want people to see what I can do now. And I want to see what I can do now with this.

So a lot of the story came from the limitations or actually the freedoms of that camera. I couldn't have done that story on video. So when I saw, wow, okay, I can do reverse photography. I can do stop motion. She has to have special powers because if she has special powers and I can utilize, I can really milk this camera for all it can get.

There's one of my shots. I love the most is where she's standing there and the, and the chair, she makes a chair come all the way up to her and it goes all the way up to her face. Now, if I did it normally, where would I even put the strings for that?

Right. To pull the chair. Yeah. So I started here with the camera upside down. I have the strings in the back. You're not going to be looking at the back. And as it goes back, you pull it back. And then when you reverse it, it goes, and it looks so good.

You can't spot the string. If you look close, you see the strings are in the back, but your eyes don't look. So I did stuff like that. And then just her like getting the hose. And then I just do stop motion for the hose turning on, you know, the faucet.

That's why I gave her special powers so that, and it made the story better. So sometimes the limitations you have with equipment or location, you can use it to make, you know, take chicken shit, turn it in chicken salad. Take this camera that everyone was like, what's this? And I go, I can do so much with this.

But I tell you today, I look at that camera. I can't believe I ever made a movie with that thing. It's so ridiculously primitive. I was like, how did I even think I could get anything done with this? And it even exposed and mariachi the same way you have to think about it.

I shot mariachi on film and with a bar 16 millimeter camera, I didn't know how to use it. I called up a place in Dallas that rented that kind of equipment. And I said, I have an airy 16 S here. Two motor looking things. One has a 24 on one has a bunch of numbers.

Oh, that's a variable speed motor. That means you can do different speed. I can shoot slow motion with this. Oh, wow. Do you have a torque motor? I don't know. What is that? Is there something on the side of the magazine? Like it does. Yeah. Now you can just look up on YouTube and it shows you how to do it.

I was doing it by phone that way. And then I went and shot the movie right then. Yeah. And I didn't know if any of it was exposing or if the film camera was working until I finished the whole movie. So imagine you have to go down to Mexico, shoot for two weeks, come back, send it off to a lab.

You want to talk about being nervous, just hoping something exposed. And when I saw it come back and the tape, you know, they transferred it to a tape so I could edit it deck to deck again. I was so relieved. Some things didn't come out, but I can cut around that.

It's like, Oh yeah. Cause I'm doing everything. Like right here, you're doing everything. Imagine if you forgot to stop down and it's open all the way and one shot is blown out. You know, I'd have stuff like that because I'm moving fast and I'm doing it. Wait a minute.

You shot, I'm going to actually, the whole thing without knowing if some of the footage is damaged wrong without any of it. That's why I only did one take. So my idea was this. How gangster is that? Wow. It was a test film. Right. Right. I thought it was, I thought it was going to be a test film.

Yeah. It's the only movie in history ever made where the filmmaker did not think anyone would see it and expect it and even set it up that way. I mean, why would I make an action movie for the Spanish market called basically the guitar player promises? No action. No one's going to watch it.

But I thought if someone actually picks it up and has the balls to watch this thing, they're going to be surprised. I put a lot of action. It was just to learn from, I just needed to make it for as little as possible, see how much I could sell it for.

If I could double my money. Great. I can make another one and just get more practice. It was just, I was so intrigued by this idea because you've heard advice about screenwriting. I heard advice back then that I thought was ridiculous. It said, it's going to take you a long time to be a good screenwriter.

So write three scripts and throw them away. The fourth script will be the good one. I was like, it's so hard to write a script. Who's going to write three full scripts? No one, they throw them away. Wouldn't it be better if you write three scripts and then shoot each one and be the cameraman, be the sound guy, be everything.

Cause that way you're learning, not just writing, you're learning how to make a movie. So that was my idea. I'm going to make three of these, hide it on Spanish video, but make money back. That's like my own film school paying me, paying me to learn. So the first one I thought, let me just shoot it.

One take each, because my friend Carlos lives in Mexico, if we shoot two takes, most of the cost is to film. I've just doubled my budget. So let me just shoot one take. Some of it's going to not come out, but I'm not going to know what, I'm not going to shoot a safety one.

That doubles my, let me, let me see. Some things might come out. I expected like 70% of it to maybe be okay, but 30% I might have to come reshoot, which is fine. I just drive back there. And then I just reshoot just those shots. Right? So I just went, let's shoot.

We stop, we come back. Then I send it off to develop because we're shooting two weeks consecutively to get film shipped back and forth from Mexico to see if it came out. You just couldn't do it. I just had to, you know, double down on it, do it one take, everything.

I remember one time I was still an actor, man, I told you to run through that shot. He goes, oh, let me do it. No, one take, dude. Just think about next time. Do what I say. I didn't think anyone was going to see it. So you, and because you don't think anyone's going to see it, you end up doing something remarkable, which is, well, I'm just going to make something for myself.

Because if I was making a movie that was going to go to Sundance, I wouldn't have made that movie. I would have thought, okay, I got to get serious. But because I made this movie that was just entertaining myself like bedhead, it entertained audiences. So that naivete is really important when you're starting out or at any point in your life, be naive about what things are going to, and just do something for yourself.

That taught me a very valuable lesson because I didn't want anybody to see it. I just thought one take, one take. When I got back home, a bunch of stuff didn't come out, but I'm like, I'm not going back to Mexico. I'll figure out a way to edit around it and make the movie shorter.

And that's just going to be the movie. And then that's the one that won Sundance. That was your first feature film. That's the one you made for $7,000. You mentioned your Frank Carlos as the star of the movie, everything one take. And I highly recommend people go back and watch that movie.

It's just an incredible movie. It's fun. And it's an action film, moves really fast. The story is really interesting. So the script is really interesting. All the actors, you could tell, they all kind of stepped up and played their own roles. They weren't actors. That's right. They were just friends of ours, which is why, and because, and this was the magic of not having a crew.

They didn't feel like they were making a movie. It's like this, you know, we're just here. Me with my one camera. In fact, the gal, Carl said, this one girl, I forgot she's in town. Maybe she would work. Cause we tried to get a soap star and she backed out.

So we got this gal over and she goes, but I don't know how to act. And I said, here, let's watch. I want to show you some on Mexican TV. A telenovela was on and you see someone, you know, all over, over acting. I said, that's acting. I don't want you to do that.

I want you to just talk like you're talking about it. Wait, that the love interest, the woman in that, that's what you're talking about. That's what you're talking about. She's amazing. She's amazing. But cause I got a video of her. I said, I want you to just do this one line.

Pretend like you're just talking to your boyfriend. Yeah. And I showed her, I showed her the video. That was cool. Cause I couldn't show her the film because we'd have to develop it. But I showed her a video test of herself doing it. And she saw herself doing it.

She suddenly had the confidence. We went through her closet, this red dress you can wear in that. And everyone just brought their own clothes. She really had like a sexuality, a tension, like a romantic tension that was real. That was, it was an issue. It was a, it was, it was in part a great love story that, I mean, it's as ridiculous as it is to say.

And in part like a dramatic love story. Yeah. The idea was that, you know, I thought a guitar player, you know, originally what I wanted to do was like road warrior. I said, I want a guy with a guitar case full of weapons going from town to town, like road warrior, but that don't have enough money for the first one to do that.

That'll be the second movie I do. How about we do a Genesis story, how he became that guy. So let's do Mad Max basically how he becomes that guy. So maybe he is a guitar player so that you start writing it out. I'm going to show you my writing method.

I write on, on index cards and I carry one of these, a little packet of index cards. I keep one always in my bag and I smile when I run across it. Cause I go, I've made a million dollars with one of these before. You know, it's like, this is the key to your next success cards.

Cause you know, when you go see a therapist, you're not going to them for the answers. You're going to them for the questions. You got the answers inside, which you don't have are the questions. A lot of times we ask ourselves very unempowering questions. Like, why am I such a loser?

You know, I can think of 10 answers right now, but if you could, but if you go, what three things can I do today that'll not just change my life, but everyone around me take steps to that, take out your cards and start writing them down. You won't come up with three.

You'll come up with 15. I'm like, wow. Cause you're asking yourself and you'll see him. So when I was doing that movie, I thought, okay, he's a guitar player for real. And he gets mixed up with the guy with a case. So how about he walks into a bar.

So right down there, he walks into a bar, bar, trying to get work. Bartender looks at him. We don't hire Maria. I should just get the hell out of here. So he leaves after that whole scene, explaining who he is and what his story is. Then the shooter comes in with a guitar case full of weapons.

He's also dressed in black and he shoots the place up. Now that was a short film. That's how you'd start a short film, but this is a feature movie. So shit, I got to figure out how to tell a feature. I'm going to need a few more cards before that.

So I'm going to need, well, who's this bad guy? How about he's in jail? I'd read a story. It's a crazy story about a guy who was in jail in Mexico and he was running his drug business from the jail as protection. He can walk out anytime, but it was to have the cops be his enforcers basically.

So introduce that guy. He's in jail making phone calls and someone puts a hit on him. So we have action right away. There's a hit on him. He kills those guys cause it's his operation. He's not in jail. All the cops are working for him. And he tells that guy on the phone, the main bad guy, I'm going to come to town.

I'm going to kill all your guys and I'm going to come kill you. So then he gets in his truck and you see them bring him a guitar case full of weapons. He passes the mariachi on the way to town. And now it's his story. The baton gets turned to mariachi.

Mariachi is doing a voiceover. It's easy to shoot. We can do the voice later. We don't have to sing sound. There was even a scene when he walks into town where we saw these coconuts, a guy cutting coconuts and we go, Oh, let's go film over there. So we filmed the guy giving him a coconut with a straw in it.

And he walks out and went, shit, man, you forgot to pay the guy. Well, let's shoot that. No, there's one take. I'll just put in the voiceover that they give away free coconuts in this town. And for years, people in other countries would go, they really give away free coconuts?

No, it's because we forgot to show him paying, you know, little happy accidents. So now look, you're already building a movie. So it's like, now he goes in the bar. Now he's mixed up. And the bad guy says, find the guy with a guitar case full of weapons. Then he goes and meets the girl.

So you just start your movie. Visually, you can start seeing your movie. And I've used this for business things. I've used this for ideas, for manifesting stuff. It's brilliant. Are you doing this alone? Usually, are you brainstorming? It's coming and it comes so fast. It's like free association. Maybe I have the ending.

Oh, I know I want his hand shot. He's going to get his hand shot because he's a musician and those ballads are always really tragic. So the girl has to die. The girl has to die because if it's going to be a tragic song for a songbook, each movie should be like a tragedy.

That's going to be over here. You know, now you got the ending and then your brain starts filling in the rest because you're asking yourself these prompt questions that you already have answers for from a past life, from a vision you had that you don't even know are there.

This prompts it. It's kind of a puzzle that you're figuring out. What happens if you get stuck? Like this doesn't make sense. Like some aspect of the structure doesn't make sense. Just leave it all there. You won't. Yeah. You just start, you just start writing in the ones you do know.

Yeah. Like, okay. I know, I know at some point she's going to betray him or he's going to think she does. She betrays him. Okay. That's in the middle somewhere. Uh, the other ones will come. Yeah. Those are all like crossroads for the story. Doesn't that like, how do you know she has to die?

Can I, can you change your mind about that? I can. Yeah. But for now I felt like if I really want the stories telling me now what it is, I didn't know I was going to make a Genesis story. I wanted to do the road warrior guy, but the road warrior, he lost his family.

So really to propel him to become a guy who has a guitar case full of weapons, he has to lose everything. So he needs a ghost. So this is a Genesis story of a character. Well, look, Bruce Wayne lost his parents. You could say, well, does the parents have to die?

Well, no, but it's not going to propel him. Like it's not going to, it's not going to drive him like that thing. So it just kept, it's just coming to me. So this is my other trick. And this is the main thing you got to learn about that. If you take any away, this isn't me doing it.

I totally believe that because when you start doing this, you go, where are these answers coming from? I'm asking the right question, but why, how come the answers just keep coming like this? I believe, cause I do so many different jobs. I've learned this over the years. When I was in 2002, I was like, how is it that I'm the production designer, the composer, which I don't even know how to read or write music.

And I'm writing orchestral score and I'm doing the editing and I'm doing the cinematography. I haven't been trained for any of these. I never went to school for these specifically. Must be something about creativity. So I went on Amazon. It's 2002. I look up creative books, anything that has creativity in the title.

I just ordered it. And I've got a bunch of books on creativity and I was reading them through. One of them was like really speaking to me. Yeah, that's, that's it. That's the process. And then it says gels and mediums. And I'm like, oh, this is a book specifically about painting, but it applies to music, editing, cinematography, writing.

It's all the same. So that's when I realized that creativity is 90% of any of those jobs, the technical part of setting up the cameras of writing a script in format or reading or writing music. That's 10% of that. How many musicians, you know, don't read or write music and they're fantastic because 90% what they do is creative.

Now I believe that that same person, even if they only do music could literally jump from job to job creatively and do a superior job than most technicians. And there's also something to say there about the learning, the technical aspects of an art, you, you collide with the, uh, uh, with the experts.

What, what happens is I've experienced this a lot with like, with, with using cameras and so on. I don't know shit about cameras and that you roll in and then there's all the experts almost talking down to you and telling you how things are supposed to be. Everything is wrong.

I talked to somebody about like soundproofing a room and they said, they gave me prices. They're insane. And like the amount of effort is insane. And this, the, the, the, the dynamics of this room are all wrong. I'm like, why can't I just fucking hang up some curtains? Like what?

It seems like that kills most of the echo. Like, I don't, I don't understand. And they're like, no, this is all wrong. There's corn, the corners are going to have some, and I'm like, fuck it. I'm just going to try and I see what it sounds like a and B.

Okay. Here's audio with curtains. Here's the audio without curtains. It seems like this is fine as a move on to the next thing. I think that when you say creativity, some of that is being a rebel, like not listening to the experts. Yeah. Well, you're going on your creativity, which is what is that?

That's like an, do you consider yourself a creative person? I think you play guitar. Yeah. Guitar, piano. Yeah. You play piano. Okay. Do you could, but would you call yourself a creative person? Yeah, I think so. Good. I think that's a positive. I would just suggest to anybody is just own it, own it.

And just say, I like when I do so many different jobs, it sounds crazy when they would introduce me, Hey, Robert, he does this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I get tired of just hearing that list. But when I think about it, there's really only one thing I do and I live a creative life.

And when you live a creative life, I mean, anything that has to do with creativity, whether it's filming or piano or guitar or sculpting, or you can just, you can do it. You can take it on and do it because it teaches you more about your main job. I become a better director by doing all those jobs.

Cause when somebody just does one job, they barely know that job. You have to do more to learn about creativity. And this is the main thing I learned was that I'm writing music, you know, for an orchestra. I'm like, how did I, I don't even know what I'm doing.

Why is that coming out? I don't feel like I'm doing it. I feel like I picked up the pen. I feel like I had the idea to do the cards, but then when everything just starts coming out so quickly, like that's how fast I wrote that movie. I go, I really feel like something else has taken over.

So this is what my belief is. And cause I hear it in different realms. Like you asked Keith Richards, how do you come up with these riffs? He goes, I don't, I don't. They're floating around the sky and I pull them out first. You know, yes. I asked, you know, Jimmy Vaughn, how do you play guitar?

Those solos. He goes, it's like a radio. You know, once you get a tune just right, you can't even believe what's coming through. So I believe, I call it the creative spirit. There's a spirit assigned to all of us. It's creative that doesn't have hands. It needs you to pick up the pen, pull out the cards.

And then when you start getting in the flow and you're like, Whoa, it's writing. It's that's that. And if you can have that mindset, you take your ego out of it and go, all I need to do is to be a good conduit for this thing, be a good pipe.

And it's going to come through. So you don't ever have to get hung up on that question you had. Well, well, what happens when you can't come up? It wasn't me to begin with. If it's not coming out, it's because I'm blocking it. And if I were to do this and I'm flowing and if I were to say, wow, I just wrote 10 cards.

I don't know if I can write more. How did I do that? You just shut the pipe because your ego got in the way. You just clogged it because it gets pissed off that you think it's you. It's not you. It's like, dude, just open up. Let me through, pick up the fucking pen.

And I learned this in, uh, when I was 19, when I had a daily cartoon strip, I had to draw a comic strip every day to get paid. And I would be like, I'd have to draw like one drawing, draw another drawing. Then it's like, okay, these kind of go together.

It was a process, you know? And sometimes I just felt like, I wish I could just envision it, sit back. I'm going to try that method. I went home and I would sit back and just try to get in my sofa, try the sofa method. I'm just going to try a picture of the comic strip.

And then as soon as I got one, I think it's funny. Then I'll just go draw that. Right. Doesn't be done in a half hour. Why, why, why it's three hours? I'd sit there and sit there and sit there. My deadline would be coming up. Got like 30 minutes.

I'm like, oh shit. Got to go sit and draw it out. And it's like, oh, okay. I got this drawing. It's kind of, oh, this kind of goes with that. If I make another drawing, I have my strip. That's the only way to do it. If you don't get up, the creative spirit ain't going to come visit you if you're doing this.

Yeah. It needs your hands and it's not going to reward you for sitting there, wait for it. You have to jump in and do it. And people, when they say, oh, well, I'm not ready. How pissed off is that spirit now? It's waiting for you to feel like you're ready.

It's not you just start doing the action and it's going to come through and the ideas will come and the answers will come because it's not you. And if you can take your ego out of life, you'll be blessed with this never ending flow of ideas because don't take ownership for it and know that you're, if it's not coming out, it's because you're just clogging it because this thing's got endless ideas.

And you give that same advice for making films, which is, you know, don't plan. If you want to be a filmmaker, don't plan like the movie, don't think about making the movie, just go in and start. Yeah. I would meet a lot of people who introduce themselves as aspiring.

I'm an aspiring filmmaker and I wonder how, what would you tell an aspiring filmmaker? I'd say, stop aspiring. Because if you, if you call yourself that you are that, and you're always going to feel like you're not ready and you don't, you just jump in before you're ready. You don't feel like you're ready till I didn't feel like I was ready to do mariachi till I was probably in my last few days of filming.

You became ready as you went. You didn't know all that stuff. I couldn't have figured all that out in advance. When my kids worked with me on a project that we did similar by the end, they realized they did an interview with my son who after just two weeks of doing one of those projects, you're a different person.

He's suddenly waxing philosophical about the creative process and going, I never knew how my dad did mariachi until we did this project together. And I realized he didn't know either. He didn't know I was going to do it. He figured it out day by day. Every challenge that got thrown at him, he had to figure it out.

And that's the biggest lesson. Most people never start. And that's the biggest thing. Don't wait till you're ready or they'll be on your tombstone. Here lies so-and-so. He was never ready. And you don't want to be that guy. Jump in. No, it's not you. You just got to be the hands.

And that relieves a lot of pressure from you because then you don't have to ever have to do anything, really. You just have to be the hands. Can you talk through some of the hats, some of the many hats you wore with the El Mariachi? That's an interesting case study.

And you've done the same thing over and over in completely different, innovative ways in all the films. But El Mariachi is such a radical leap for you. That was crazy. That thing's held together with Scotch tape and rubber bands because of the camera I borrowed. You directed, you did cinematography, you did the sound.

It's better to just say what I didn't do. I didn't act in front of the camera. Everything else I did. Everything else, I was the whole crew. It's just like you're doing here, except you've got sound recording right onto the cameras, right? Or do you have it to the system?

Separately, but it's synced. I mean, all the modern technology. But it's synced, yeah. So I didn't have sync camera. Yep. So I had a camera that, it was not a sync camera. And the thing was, it was so loud, I would have had to blimp the shit out of it, which I didn't have a blimp.

And then I would have needed a sound guy. Just to be clear, so if people don't understand this, you're shooting basically no sound. Because the camera sounds like this. It's like, it sounds like all your money's going away, first of all. So I would go like this. Action. You'd start running.

Yeah. And I shoot my edit. Cut. Yep. You know, they're still running, you know, like I'm only using this part. And there's no slates. There's no, there's, there's guys holding up their fingers at the beginning of rolling. This is real seven for just a few frames. I know which real it is.

And then that 10 minutes of film is just one shot after another. And I use almost every frame of those shots because I was cutting in the camera. Now, after I shoot, like, let's say, you know, tell me your name. Lex. What's your last name? Friedman. Where do you live?

Austin, Texas. I would do the whole scene. Then I'll get the sound, bring the mic in close like that. Say it again. Lex. Friedman, Austin, Texas. That'll probably sink. Now, if you were going on and on, there's a place where it'd go out of sync. I hate rubbery lips.

So I would cut away to the dog or to the knife or to the girl. And then I cut back when you're back in sync. And since these were non-actors, they say everything the same way each time. They would say their line just like they weren't, they weren't performing it to where they didn't remember how they performed the thing before.

They were just talking in their own rhythm. So a lot of the times it's the, anytime you see anyone on camera talking, they're in sync with themselves. And as soon as it cuts away, they're out of sync. And it created this really fast cutting style that I probably wouldn't have had on such a low budget movie, but it was the only way to keep things in sync.

So when I would shoot two people talking, I would make sure I'd film a couple of shots of like the dog or a stuffed cat or something, just so I'd have something to cut away to, to get them back in sync. That's so brilliant. And it's, I call it, it's just resourceful.

It's just being very resourceful. And you allow it to get maybe a little bit out of sync sometimes? I didn't allow it, but I, oh yeah, I would let it, if I just didn't have a way to cut away. Right. And I would try to sync it as best I could.

But we as the audience, like, do you understand where the threshold is? Yeah. Where we notice something? Yeah. It seems like you can get away with a lot. You can get away with, I just don't, I'm just particular about that. I just don't like seeing a dub movie where it just feels canned.

It makes you not believe in it anymore. So I just cut away where the lips are just way off. I just didn't want any of that. I just felt like I wanted it to just be believable and there, they could be really believable if they were in sync, but I didn't shoot two takes of film or even two takes of audio, but just one take.

We just went to the, and what's cool is that because I just had them go through the whole scene again. So I would go ahead and record them, like grabbing the bottle or any action they did opening the suitcase. I have all the sound effects too. I just had to sync it by hand.

That's a lot of work for me, but I got great sound that way. Cause if I had had a sync camera, the mic would have been so far. We wouldn't have, we would have had to go get new sound effects, but because the camera's off, I could record everything close up.

So there was some blessing to that. You, uh, and Quentin Tarantino had a great conversation about a lot of topics, but one of them is how to bring out the best in the actors. Like what in that El Mariachi, how do you bring out the best in these non-actors?

And then maybe what's the thread that connects to your future work too? What really helped for those non-actors was that they just look across and it's me filming. They didn't feel like they're, so they're being so natural. And I think I, who played the bad guy, I met him in the research hospital where I was sold my body to science.

He was my bunkmate. And I said, dude, you look kind of like Rudger Hauer. And then it's like, we saw another movie, man, you look like James Spader. Shit. You should be the bad guy in my movie. And it'd be cool to have you as the bad guy. He goes, but I don't speak Spanish.

Well, that's okay. All right. And I'll teach you phonetically. And you're going to wear sunglasses. And if you look close, he's holding the, he's holding the lines here. And he's looking at the lines like that and just smiling. So can't believe he's getting away with this. He's smiling and he's got the sunglasses on.

I read that somewhere in the pool. There's like a scene in the pool. In the pool. He's like this. With the sunglasses on. Oh man. But he was doing it phonetically. And I tell you what, he was so great. That guy, right? Yeah. When we do Desperado, I brought him back.

Didn't even have to do any dialogue. Watch that movie. When he shows up in the opening scene, when Desperado, he's playing the guitar and the opening with the credits to tie it into the first movie, he shows up again. And all he has to do is light a cigarette.

And you see this. He's so nervous because now there's a crew behind me. Now it's real. Before it was just me and him and it didn't feel like a real movie. So everyone gave a great performance. So how do you recreate that later on a big movie is just building a report, making a safe zone for your actors.

Quentin once told me, sometimes being, you know, we're talking about directing is sometimes being a great director, just being a great audience, you know, being a great audience for them. Cause you're, you're the, you're taking the place of the audience for the actor. They try something. And if you're enjoying it, they know that the audience is going to enjoy it.

Or if you're, you know, makes you cry, you know, so sometimes you just, you don't have to tell them a lot sometimes. And if you do have something very specific to tell them, they usually, you know, go with it. But I always just like to see what they do.

And a lot of times they just are in the zone because again, they're, they're getting that flow too. You create the right environment. Everyone's getting this inspiration that's all tied together that you never could have directed. It's just like, you just create that space where we're all going to be open to it and it's going to drop in our lap.

And I'm going to point it out when it does, because you may not feel like you know how to play this role yet, but I say not knowing is the other half of the battle and the more important part, that's the part we're going to discover. And when it happens, I'm going to point it out and it's going to be like magic and we're just going to go, okay, we're accepting it and we do it.

And it gets people in that kind of headspace. And then we're all open to it, to where the character is supposed to go, what the, what it's supposed to sound like, instead of me being very, you know, manipulative to get a certain thing. I don't know. It's, it's just whenever it feels good.

Yeah. There's such an intimate connection between the actor and the director. I've seen some of the behind the scenes footage with you. You are just a fan enjoying the scene when it's done well. But I think there's an aspect, if I were to put myself in the headspace of the actor, they want you as the audience, like to earn that happiness, you know, because when a director approves.

Yeah. Well, you're a performer and you want, and there's no other, you know, it's not like a live show where you get the approval of the audience and you're like, oh, wow, they, they liked that joke. Let me do more. You know, really the director is it. And a lot of times the director's way behind a monitor somewhere.

That's why I still like to operate the camera. Cause when I'm operating the camera, it's like this, we can have a hundred people here. We wouldn't know because they go away. It's just us. They just disappear when it's the camera guy is the director. And we're going, let's do that again.

Let's do that again. There's a shot. And, uh, I'm lighting sensitivity myself. There's a bad, my crew setting lights and I have, uh, this great shot of Clive Owen where he's holding down Benicio's head in the toilet. You know, Benicio's not there. It's just a closeup of him at this point.

And I'm practicing my shot. I'm zooming in slow in his face and people are still walking behind him on the green screen setting lights. And I'm like, I'm rolling. We're ready to go. We're getting this. I can already tell we're already in the moment what you're doing right now.

Just keep holding that. Look now one jolt. Like you're like, he's starting to fight back, but you don't even flinch cut. Okay. Nevermind. You guys can stop moving. That's true. We already got. Holy shit. Wow. Yeah. It's like that. Cause you're so lucky. That's a great scene by the way.

Great. Right. And it was, if I wait for these guys, this moment will be gone. And then another one was Mickey Rourke. You know, he had so much freaking dialogue. He had just done this whole big dialogue scene. He had another one that said, let's go ahead and start with a wide shot where the two actors, if I'm the camera, you know, Mickey and Elijah are here, let's get a two shot and we'll come around on Mickey closeup.

We don't, we'll turn Mickey around for the closeup. Let's start with the wide thing. Get used to the lines. And most of it's going to be sold in a closeup. We sit down, Mickey starts delivering the take. I'm like, hold on, hold a second. I brought my camera over, zoom in, just adjust that light real quick.

Cause I'm the DP. Cause if I had another director of photography, they'd be like, oh no, no, we have to relight and all this stuff. It's like, no, no, let's just do this. This let's go. He's doing it right now. And I go, and that performance is just right then.

And so you can feel that when you're also you're operating and you're the camera guy and you're the DP it's like high tech guerrilla filmmaking. Yeah. I run a green screen, but it's like all the crew needs are, you know, marching orders. Just put a light back there, hitting them harder.

Like that's a, this is a 5k, make that a 10k. It's got to be stronger. They don't need to know that I'm going to make that a lamppost later. They just need it marching orders for the moment. So I can just kind of tell people do this, do this, do that.

And then I know what I can accomplish with the actor. And then everything else falls into place later. Cause I'm going to put all that in later. You know, things, once you know how to do a lot of jobs like that, you can just move at the speed of thought, which is where the actors love being creatively because they, nobody knew what green screen was back then.

They're like, what is this again? So I explained it as well, it's kind of like doing theater, but instead of a black curtain behind you with a prop, it'll be a green curtain. And you might just have a cup or just a steering wheel, but it's just you and the other actors just like this and everything else will be painted in later.

We're just talking. We're locked in. If we stay locked in, we'll look great when there's rain coming down and we're on a ship later, but it's comes down to this. Right. And the more it was so fun to do those kinds of movies to this day, you try to be close to the action connected with the actor.

That's because it's like a dance. You end up. That's so like to hear a member on dust till dawn, Michael parks in the opening scene. He's talking about the two guys that are running around killing people just before he gets shot. And there's a, I just start doing this slow zoom.

I remember it was take eight, start doing the slow zoom on him. And I'm like, I hope I get all the way up to where it stops zooming when he finishes that speech. Cause there's no set way. And I don't know how he's going to say it, but you're just locked almost telepathically.

And as he's delivered, there's no edits. He's just going, yeah, they killed four rangers, two hostages. It's just like, wow. And you're just so pulled in. I'm just like, oh my God. And then it stopped. It's like, I ran out of zoom, right. As he finished that speech. So how can a director, cause there's a lot of great directors that stay in the, in the back of the battlefield.

You know, they just trust that whatever they get from their crew, they just, you accept it. Just like, you know, you would get a take to them. There's so much. I like, I like that intimate connection because I could not be behind a monitor. Even if I had communication with my cameraman, okay, now start zooming in.

You're not going to know. You have to feel it. You have to be in there. It's like a dance. It's like trying to do a dance with a partner and you're across the room. You know, it's like, no, you got to be there up close feeling the energy. And it's the creative spirits whispering to your both.

You know, it's not your own idea. It's you're capturing a moment. That's magic. And there's true magic that happens on a set. And that's what brings you back. Cause you know, I didn't direct that and they didn't act that that came through us. And we just had the cameras rolling and we captured a ghost.

It's like you said, don't you have the pen in hand and you were, you were there. It's like that. It's crazy. It's crazy. All right. Your friendship with Tarantino is just fascinating. And just the whole timeline of the history of movies and the two of you collided and met is, is just a fascinating part of the story.

You first met him in 1992 at the Toronto Film Festival. Can you just talk about meeting Tarantino? We both had films at the same time with first films, guys in black, action, violence. In fact, I had seen this movie already. My first film festival was a few months before that, the Telluride Film Festival and Reservoir Dogs was there, but Quentin couldn't be there.

He was at Sundance earlier that year. And the guy who became my agent, he saw it and said, Hey, you're going to like this guy, Quentin Tarantino. I told him about you. You're going to meet him. He's going to be in Toronto. Oh, cool. Cool. Okay. And so I went ahead and saw his movie and Telluride.

And I was like, Holy shit, this guy's in black again, just like the mariachis dressed in black and action. And I said, Oh, we're going to like each other. He's going to like my movie. So then in Toronto, we met and we met first on a, cause I knew I was going to be doing a panel discussion with him.

They asked us to do a panel discussion about violence and movies in the nineties, even though it was only 92. So we're on a panel together and that's where I met him. And he's like, Hey, Robert, your agent told me about you. And I was like, yeah, I saw your movie Reservoir Dogs.

And he goes, Oh, you got to come to my screening and I'm going to come see yours. So he came to mariachi and I videotaped the audience reactions because they were insane, insane reactions to it. But I have the first screening. He saw mariachi sitting next to me laughing.

He's laughing at everything. He was just the best audience. I have his recording of the first time he saw mariachi. Oh no, really? Yeah. Cause I taped it. He's so loud. Cause he's right next to me. Well, just like you, but even probably even more than you. He's a fan.

He watches, he just loves movies. He loves movies. In fact, I, the next time I heard him laugh that way, was it that his own premiere for Kill Bill? We're watching Kill Bill and he's laughing like it's somebody else's movie. He still enjoys the movies. It's so he loves, but all the actors did.

And it's like, that's the kind of energy you really love. But I'll tell you what, what, what happened. Um, I'm not a very shy person, you know, very shy. I'd have to go talk. I'm sure you probably feel like you're not an orator or anything, you know, just have to go do it.

I thought, well, man, I'm gonna have to introduce my film and talk about it afterwards. I'm afraid of that. What am I going to do? I don't, I've never talked in front of more than five people before. So I went to see this other movie and it was good.

And I was watching and then the director comes up at the end and goes, yeah, well, that was my movie. And, um, you know, uh, you know, here's the writer. And it's like, oh man, I don't like the movie anymore. This guy's kind of a dick. So I cannot do that.

I'm going to have to go be who they imagined made that movie. So I wrote out my whole intro. It was like a 20 minute intro because no one had ever heard of anybody making a movie for no money, much less without a crew, much less, you know, the way I did it was just very new.

Nobody knew it was possible. So my whole intro is like, you'll see the Columbia logo slapped in front. It's probably cost more than the whole movie. And then I go through, this is how I made it with a wheelchair for a dolly, a turtle. You know, I wrote around things I had.

I mentioned the turtle, the pit bull, the bus, the ranch, all that stuff. Right. So then when they see the movie, in fact, I think my wife was in the audience, she said at Sundance, people were laughing so much at your intro. They just wanted to hear a story like this so badly.

I heard someone next to me say, I'm going to vote for his movie. They hadn't even seen the movie just because the story was so good. They wanted that movie to be great. And when they see the turtle, big cheers. When they see the pit bull, big cheers. When they see the school bus cheers.

But then when they see how we use it, he slams into it and falls in it, they fricking lose their minds because they know how I put it together. They know that the rubber bands and the popsicle sticks, I already set it up. And so that's why that audience, I would just hate the reaction.

They're so with it. The context is so key. Like you can watch Mariachi and go, Hey, yeah, this looks like a 7,000 on a movie. But if you know the story behind it, suddenly I was curious. I hadn't seen it in a long time. I was watching it for the 20th anniversary.

We did a screening and the first few shots come up and I'm like, Oh yeah, well, it looks like a $7,000 movie. And then it just keeps going. And it's in the, once we're in the jail cell and the shooting's happening and I realized, Oh my God, we had these blanks that only fired one shot and it would jam.

So I had to show it going, use the sound effect, cut to the other guy, cut back to have another one go. I had to do these editing tricks to make it look like, and then repeat a few frames. So it goes, so it looks like a machine gun, all this stuff that I'm start sweating as I'm watching it going.

I can't believe I made this movie with that freaking camera. I don't know how I did. I couldn't even see. I'm there with this long lens, pulling my own focus. When I finally had to do a real movie, I was operating the camera in my first real movie with a crew.

And I get the camera and a guy comes over and he focuses for you. That's your job. You focus? Shit, I had to do my own focusing on the last movie. I didn't, it was so hard. You're trying to focus on a guy while you're filming, you don't know where you are.

And it's just, I was, couldn't believe how much easier it is when you have a crew. It's extremely valuable to know that the pain of that, the, the spectrum of creativity that's allowed within that, even just the focusing, like how focusing fucks up on all the cameras and newer cameras.

What, what are the different artifacts that come up just to know the battlefield in order to be a great general. You have to know how to be a soldier on the battlefield. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to know all that stuff, but you know, it's like the end of the day, you could shoot something on a phone and if you have a great story, no one's going to even notice.

They'll be, Oh, we shot that on a phone. I didn't notice, you know? So sometimes people get cut up on, what kind of camera should I have? It's like, it's not the camera. That's just the tool. That's just the pen. That's just like, yeah, you can have different paint brushes, but you can go, I'm going to, I'm going to limit my palette.

I'm only going to use a fan brush and a detail brush and I'm going to make a painting. Do you think that painting is going to suffer? No, it's going to take on an identity that you wouldn't have had if you had all the other tools. So sometimes the limitations help you because when you can do anything, you come, it can be crippling.

When I knew I could only use those things for mariachi, it's like, all right, well, it's very, it's very simple now. Let me show you how cheapskate I was. Like I did not spend on anything. So when you see him walking around with a guitar case, it's a shitty cardboard one, you know, like I got from home, I had to get a heavier one to put the guns in.

So we borrowed one, but it had this material ripped off the top. So you could see the wood. It's just the wood on top. So it didn't match the other one because it wasn't all black. And I was too cheap to paint it black. I didn't want to spend money on paint.

So you see that cardboard case, he puts it down. And when he goes to open it, I cut to the other one. Once the wood is, is watch the edits, you'll see it open. Now it's a completely different case for the guns. And when he goes to cut it, when he close it, it cuts to the other one.

And he goes, oh, that's how I did that whole movie. Again, it was a practice film. I don't want to waste any money on it. I don't know if it's going to be even, I won't be able to make five bucks from it. Yeah. But you're one of the, one of the few great directors where both the movie's genius and the process of making it is creative genius.

It's like fun to watch both, to know of both. You know what I believe, right? It's like, it's not me. I have to say that thing is freaking, I didn't get in its way. That's basically what helped. And people say that, you know, don't get in your own way.

This is a little bit easier to understand. It's like, keep the pipe clear. Don't block it with your ego. Don't say you're going to be shocked, but don't ever say, oh shit, how do I do that? I don't know if I can do that. You didn't do it to begin with, except that it just came through you and try to get back into that headspace.

Especially when you go to make a second film or a third film or follow up a success. That's when artists get really crippled because sometimes they start tiptoeing around as an artist going like, oh shit, now it's my second film. My first one did really well. They might not like my second one so much.

That's not the headspace you were in when you made the first one. You weren't hesitant like that. So try to keep that very naive. And that's why I say commit to a body of work. Because I know a lot of filmmakers get stuck on their second one and then go further because they get crippled by the success of the first one.

And they start asking, oh shit, how did I do that? How can I do that again? And you get deeper and deeper in a hole you can't get out of. I think you've spoken about that filmmakers, especially early on in their journey, critics and the audience can destroy them.

Meaning like it creates too much of a burden, too much, just wear them down to where they're almost scared to be creative. Can you just speak to that, how to ignore the critic? I'll tell you something that my best advice ever got early on. I was so fortunate from an unlikely place.

Because he's such a, he sounded like Clint Eastwood when he said it. It was funny when you said that. But I got Desperado and Antonio Banderas. I brought Antonio to be in it from Europe. Big action movie. And so Spielberg saw it and he said, um, Hey, I want you to do Zorro with Antonio.

So we're working on it for a while. I did, I was working on the pre-production. I got to work with Spielberg doing that. It ended up stalling me as the, there was like two studios involved and Amblin was moving or it was some weird thing where, but I got to work with him for about five months, you know?

And I started getting really nervous cause it's like, Oh shit. You start thinking about even movies of his that people would say, Oh, you know, temple of doom is not as good as Raiders. Have you seen temple of doom? I'd been killed if I can do that movie. Yeah.

If I can make Zorro as good as that one, the one that people said, it's like, people don't know how good they had it with that guy. But I started thinking, I even said, man, I just rewatched temple of doom last night. I don't know how I'm going to do this Zorro movie.

Like I've just never done anything like that. You start getting, you know, afraid cause you go, the second thing he said, all right, just, just, you're going to do fine. But then I started thinking, this guy at that time, you don't know the era, but this was like mid nineties.

He was making the biggest, best movies of all. And people would shit all over this guy. They would throw so much. They were so jealous press audience. Everyone was just like hits at him. Just throwing rocks at him for everything. Spielberg? Yeah. You can't imagine it now. You had to been at that time.

Now everyone has respect for him, but they made him run a fucking gauntlet and they were like drastic parm. Yeah. You can't even imagine it now, but you should have seen the climate. It freaked me out. Cause I'm like, maybe I should just stay under the radar where I've been, you know, not poke my head out so much.

Yeah. Cause this guy has a head out and they're unwarranted. You can't even fathom it now. Cause you weren't here at that time. It was crazy. You never even think of him that way. I'm glad it changed because back then it was just, it made people not want to be successful.

And I made me be worried. Like maybe I shouldn't be go making a movie that has his name on it. That's going to put my head out in a whole different realm of filming at a studio level. Cause if I make it, even if I make a good movie, if I make a great movie, he's making great movies and he's getting this dog shit.

I don't know if I could take it, you know? So I asked him cause you don't know how resilient you can be. So I said, I mean, man, how do you do it? How do you, how do you, what do you do when people just throw rocks at you all day long?

He goes, Oh Robert, you just don't blink. And I was like, Whoa, now I see how he got through it. Just don't blink. Just like, you know, it's coming. Don't blink. And to him say it's like a Clint Eastwood line. Right. But it was like, you could see he was telling the truth and you could see that's how he did it.

He just avoided all criticism by just not blinking. It's like, it's designed to make you blink and you're just not going to blink. Cause you're committing to a body of work. He just keeps cranking out movies, whatever he feels like doing. He does. And that was like the most power.

And it never bothered me again. I just like always kept in mind. I tell that to my actors. I tell that people that story has traveled. Uh, I even had some little actors who were like starting to get up and I said, I remember tell you a couple of things.

Some people have told me you're never as good as people say you are. And you're never as bad either. That's what you're cleaning. So I remember that. And then the second one, Spielberg, don't blink, don't blink. But there has to be a kind of vision for yourself of what, what, what you're reaching for, what you're trying to do again.

Yeah. Sort of, sort of like, I think if you told me what would be my vision for the future, just committing to a body of work, which I've just kept doing. Like that's, it's about as far as you can see. Do you have a sense, do you have a vision of the body of work you'll make in the next 20 years?

Like, or is it just this fog? I did, I did. Like I wasn't sure. Because you don't always know what the, you might not have the vision yet because you don't have the information yet. So if you just commit to a body of work, you'll start figuring out more reasons to keep doing that body of work.

So when I turned 50, I was like, I guess I could just keep making movies. I mean, I guess that's been good for me. I guess I could just make more. I kind of done that already, but it's always fun and it's always new. And I guess I could make, but it wasn't a lot of drive.

Right. It's like, that's not, it's like, well, I guess I could just keep doing the body. You know, that's not as much as I can't wait to keep doing another season. But I didn't know how to get to that point. So I thought, you know what? I got to this job so early.

I was in the early twenties. I bet there's some other job out there that exists that I don't even know about because I don't know other jobs. So I looked up, you don't believe it, but I literally bought jobs for dummies. Nice. I was just like, I don't even know what basic jobs are even out there turning the page.

Oh yeah. Don't want that job. Don't want that job. Don't want that job. I'm just going through and it gets to filmmaker and there's a little icon to tell these job. This icon is a guy like this. Literally you look it up. It's a, and it says, this is the best job ever.

You get to just be creative with your friends, sit back, watch the money roll in across the desk. And I said, but 99% of film students don't get this job. So give up that dream. So I was like, I guess I got the best job. But then I started working with my kids when we did, uh, I had a TV show called rebel without a crew based on that.

Right. I found filmmakers who'd only made a short film. They hadn't made a feature. I picked this diverse group of filmmakers, gave them $7,000 and we documented them making a feature two weeks. Like I did. You can bring one person. Like I had Carlos guy out of the producer and star of Mariachi bring one person.

It'd be your cameraman or you can be your sound guy or whatever. But it's only that for the shoot. And you'd have to do the whole thing. And I saw those guys by the time they're, they're like, I don't know how we're going to make this movie. By the first week of shooting, they're already talking about their next feature.

They became so confident because their idea of what impossible is drops really quick when you take it. Yeah. Uh, anyone interested in, uh, unlocking their creativities, they're not even just filmmaking. I highly recommend that show. And I highly recommend the kind of the follow on show, which is where you make red 11.

Yeah. So that's the one I did. So then it came time for me to do one. So I made a movie called red 11 based on my experiences in the medical hospital, but I'll turn it into a sci-fi thriller just to use that as, so that I can use like somebody getting stabbed in the eye.

So I can still have more elements to show how you can do camera tricks and stuff with no money. And the whole day is make it for less than $7,000, which I think we're like $5,000, uh, mainly because we had a lot of actors I wanted to pay. Um, but the movie itself can make it for nothing.

But I brought my son aboard as my number one who hadn't been working with me in a while. I mean, he wrote shark point lava go when he was seven, but then he hadn't really been at working on my crew. So he didn't know how to operate the sound equipment, the separate sound system and all that.

I didn't show him until the day of filming. Cause I knew we're documenting it would make a better tutorial. So by getting them working on the movies together, they came to be super excited. By the end of the day, I thought for sure, oh, they're going to hate this.

Even though it's only two weeks, they've got other interests. They don't want to be filmmakers. I thought they were going to be like, all right, I'm out of here after one day. But instead he came to me and his brother who acted in it. And he went, dad, the actor didn't show up after the first day.

The location didn't match the script at all. We asked you how we're going to solve the problems. And you're like, I don't know, figure it out. We thought dad stumped for once. Is he stumped finally? But then by the end of the day, his eyes were all white. We figured it out.

I went, oh, they don't realize this is the creative process. Every day is like that. And in life too, every day, you don't know your machine's going to not work or you're going to get a flat tire or you get fired that day. So life is very unpredictable, just like a movie set.

So I realized I'm going to make them all work on my movies now because it's teaching them about life. I'm teaching them very little about the film make. It's about life lessons, about how you take on something impossible, turn chicken shit to chicken salad and make it work. And that's the straw and that's life.

That's the process of life. So many people say, well, I'm not ready to make my projects. Like you're not ready for life either. You're like this, all day you're dodging shit that's going on. How come art has to be perfect? It's like, it should be the same. Life and art should be the same.

And I think filmmaking in general is full of unpredictable things. And in a short little microcosm too, within one project, you've got a whole blueprint for how you're going to solve life because you've just done it on a creative level. I think of all the art forms of all the art mediums like that, it just has so many different components, a lot of components to it.

And so like, there's so many ways to fuck things up, to learn from, but any of the disciplines, if you add those to it, like I teach my actors to paint in between takes, we'll go and we'll, I'll take a picture of them in character. I show them a canvas, I show them paint.

You don't need to know how to paint. This is to show you the brush is going to know where to go. You just got to pick it up, pick the colors you want. Doesn't matter how crazy they are, whatever's speaking to you, you lay it down. I'll show you some of the pictures.

You're not going to believe the masterworks these actors did like in a day. They just start doing it. Lady Gaga had her fingernails in there. You know, Josh Brolin's doing his thing. Then I take a picture of them in character, do a line drawing of it. We project it on top.

And mostly it's the painting coming through, their line drawing with a little bit of their eyes painted in. You're not going to believe these things. They couldn't believe it, but it teaches them that, that thing about that, the creativity is going to come through. So even though they're already acting, they're already being creative, we're already making a movie.

Like you said, that's already a really great creative endeavor. When we would sneak off and paint, you could tell it's firing a whole other part of their brain. It was funny. I think Josh Brolin's girlfriend said, Josh said, hey, my girlfriend just said, she said, his wife now, but at the time, are you guys doing drugs?

You leave the set and you come back and you're all like, no, we're painting, we're painting. But that makes sense that you say that when you get your creativity firing, it's more powerful than any drug. And we would come back and he'd be on the set going, is it bad that I'm still thinking about the painting?

And I'm like, no, I think it's good. I think it's all good. But it's, you can tell it's opening a whole other part of their creative brain. So you can be doing acting in a movie and the painting is still going to tap. It shows how much untapped potential your creative brain has.

So the more you can do, the more you're firing off. And it was so cool. Like I remember we did one with Joseph Gordon-Levitt was painting. We came in and the table was like this. And they said, we have a problem. You want them to throw the cards out, the playing cards out, but it's so slick.

They go sliding off the table. And we both look at it and we both got the solution at the same time. Oh, we just, just, just haven't, just have them throw them wherever they go. And then we'll place them. And then digitally, it's even better that he looks like he gets them all perfectly laid out to show what a card shark he is.

That's, but that's what we have to do because we're not going to, we can't, we'll be here all day. We're trying to get, if we're going to worry about where they go, just go bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump. And then we'll place the cards down and everyone will pick them up and then we'll marry the two in post.

You know, you're just, you just come up with creative solutions better, easier because you were just solving crazy creative solutions. And the other one, like what paint medium do I use? What kind of gel am I going to use? So when you come back to your main job, which is filmmaking, you're like, Oh, I can figure this out in two seconds, you know, so it helps you creative problem solve.

So that basically working with my kids made me realize, Oh, now I know exactly what I want to do for the next 10 years. I only want to make movies with my kids because I'm mentoring them, but they're teaching me shit. Cause they were the age I was when I made Mariachi and Desperado and their, their ideas are really sharp.

So the mentoring goes both ways. And it's like the greatest parenting you can do. Cause you're building a project together and in the same boat together, figuring it out. And it's family time. You're like checking all the boxes. So I thought my filmmaking going forward is going to be checking all the boxes in life.

So I'm not, not spending time with my family. We're actually giving them lessons that they can go do anything they want in life. Cause they're going to have different interests, but now it's kind of like going to college. And this college is like the best college. Cause it pays you to learn.

You get to do these crazy skills. Like my son is, you know, conducting the orchestra, the James Bond orchestra in London for the spy kid score and a score he wrote. Cause I can't write at his level because he was always our best piano player and they get, you get the charge out of working with them.

And then, and by making a label, there's a, there's a weird phenomenon that happens. If you guys want to take your game to another level, I stumbled upon this idea. My son, that was my counterpart on that movie racer. He was my sound guy. Like I said, came up with shark point lava girl and he's little, he became my writer, co-writer, co-producer.

He had come to me and said, I want to do VR type movie. And I said, Oh, let me show you as an example of creativity and manifesting. I said, let me show you how it works. Let's, let's make a company. We'll make a company called double R, double R productions.

Cause we all have a double R names, all the kids. So if anyone ever wants to do anything, we can use our company. So let's make a logo and I'll make t-shirts and notepads and stuff. Cause once you have a company, you have now have to make things for that company.

Just like the advice I gave to people, stop aspiring, make a business card that says writer, director, cinematographer, I did editor. Cause then now you have to conform to that identity. So now if I create a label like double R, we're going to come up with ideas. We'll call up VR companies and say, Hey, we have a company, a VR company.

Would you like us to make you a film for your, sell your headsets? Yeah. They gave us a budget. They they they're dying for content. They gave us a budget. We shot a 20 minute action movie called the limit with Michelle Rodriguez and Norman Reedus, where you're in an action movie with them.

And it was killer. We, they made us a big double R logo, animated logo. Later that year, we did red 11, same logo. That movie went to directors, Fortnite and can festivals were paying us to come talk about how we made that movie. That's when we're doing the cards, throwing the cards out because they wanted their audiences.

They knew they would love that. So we could have had a whole gig just continuing to get paid to go to the Fed. Usually you pay to go to the Fed. You don't get paid. That's how, what a success that was. But then we had to make, we can be heroes.

So we had to stop, but we can be heroes was a Netflix movie where they asked me to make a spy kids type thing. And so I thought, Oh, okay, I'll just do it with superheroes. That's their, I wrote it with my kids based it on some of their personalities.

It's the most watched and rewatched movie in Netflix history. Like nothing in touch. Cause kids just keep watching it over. Cause it's kids with superpowers. No one's ever done that before. And they can't, they couldn't believe it. Like I'd heard anecdotally. That's how the spy kids, there were people said, Oh, that kids watch it over and over on video, but you can't keep track of that.

You can't on Netflix because their biggest thing is people completing the movie. A lot of people don't complete a movie and it still counts as a view. They may watch five minutes and change the channel. So do you complete a movie? That's really where they, you know, really value not only to be complete, but rewatched, rewatched, rewatched per household.

That's so many times. That one has a double R logo as well. And my kids are like, dad, it really worked. I was like, I know better than I thought. I didn't know. I didn't know that me manifesting that company was going to turn into that. And we've just keep making stuff.

So I want to do that with brass knuckle films now with the audience. Cause it works. So I said, as soon as you have a logo and a company, your brain starts coming up with all kinds of ideas and it's a filter. Like, like I said, sometimes the freedom of limitations is all freeing.

When I had to do four rooms and it's like, we have to use one hotel room. Oh, well then there's going to be a dead body. There's going to be, you can do a lot with limitations. If they said you could use the whole city would have been harder to come up with something.

Well, brass knuckle films has a filter, only action action movies. Cause that's the stuff that there's always an appetite for. If you ask Netflix right now, what do you need more of? They'll say action, action, action. We don't have enough action. The last regime didn't leave us enough action.

We need action. They'll pay a premium for an action film that we can make at a lower cost. A $20 million action film is very cheap. Studios don't know how to make them that cheap. That's why they'll pay for an independent to go do it. And right now that's the key is to be independent.

Cause a lot of studios that can't even greenlight anything cause things are so expensive. They don't want to lose their ass, but they need action films. So let's make something that everybody needs and let's make it at a price. And we'll make it in my studio because I got my own studio and I can keep all the costs down.

Cause we have all the costumes and props and sets from 25 years of filmmaking to keep the costs down. And we'll have the audience gets to invest. It's not crowdfunding or Kickstarter. You're actually an investor. Anyone who puts money in can pitch their idea for an action film to me.

And I'm going to make one of the four films in that slate from one of those ideas. Cause I want the audience to win. I want the audience to win and be a part of it. Cause the audience is an afterthought in Hollywood. They make a movie. They show the audience, the movie, go tell your friends now.

So y'all spend money on our movie. Well, where's your cut of that? So I want them to be successful. So if any of the movies in the slate do well, they make money off that one. And then sequels or anything, but they're all going to do well because everyone needs an action movie or we're going to keep the costs down.

Can I actually ask you just to focus in on action? You've created a lot of epic action films. What makes for a great action film? It comes down to the character. You know, like if you think about what are the best action films, what are your favorite films? Like die hard.

He's a cop. So he's still capable, but he's not Superman. The fact that he's like in over his head and you're rooting for him. That's a great character. You know, John wick, he is Superman, but he's retired. And now he's pissed off and he's going back into a job, you know?

So the care is comes down to the character really being very important because the action will then have a character to it. I think Leon, the professional does what's it. I mean, that's all that when I say we're going to do action movies. I mean, movies that are really action first.

Like there's some movies that are more dramas that have action. Where's the boundary? So John wick is action. That's more action, but it has character in it, but it's action driven. What about like predator? Predator is a sci-fi action film. So that's kind of a hybrid, which I like, but sometimes it's hard for the audience to know what they're buying into.

Like they focused a lot on the action in the trailer, you know, and then they felt there was some other worldly thing, but you didn't really know, but it's a great movie. So die hard is a, is a good example. It was a good example. Right. I think of right off where there's a character that really made the difference.

And then everyone repeated that, you know, for a while it was like under siege. I was like a regular guy who's really actually has some training on a ship now. And then on the bus, you've got a cop, he's a cop, but he's not super cop. So that's why you root for him.

You know, that became a, an element that people repeated a lot. What about taken? That's a great one. That's a great character who is superhuman. Yeah. Who's also retired, you know, so there's like a superhero type character in an extraordinary circumstance. Like that's now his daughter's taken. Right. And then there's ordinary people like the Terminator.

That's a great character. Not the Terminator. He's a villain, but Sarah Connor, who is a waitress, doesn't think her life's going anywhere. And she finds out she's the mother of the guy who's going to save the human race. And she's got to train him. You know, suddenly she has to become someone else.

Those are cool movies. Cause it's a Genesis of a character and you see a character go from waitress to revolutionary step up. Yeah. What about mob movies? I mean, some of them are like Godfather is really not about, it's not an action movie drama that has some action. Right.

I mean, John Wick is a mob film in some sense. Goodfellas. I mean, there's a lot dynamic action, but there's really not action first. That's really a character type piece. Great. Freaking amazing. And it feels like action by the way he does it. It's just like that. It's like fast pace, fast talking, fast moving.

Like Escape from New York is one of my favorites since I was a kid. Cause every movie you'll notice this now that I tell you, even like a romantic comedy, there's a timeline. Every movie has to have like a ticking clock. So the audience knows the stories are not just going to take over a period of years.

So suddenly someone in the movie around 20 or 30 minutes in, we'll say, we've got to go find the groom before the wedding this weekend. You know, it'll be just like that. Escape from New York has the best example of a ticking time clock. Cause he's literally got bombs in his neck and he's got a watch that shows him he's constantly clocking it, how little time he has.

And he gets you so like, Oh my God, is he going to make it? Um, that's like the best use of that. And no one's ever topped that ticking time clock. All the other ones seem artificial in comparison, you know, aliens, you know, we got to get off this planet now.

Cause this whole thing's going to blow up. You know, they like, there's a timeline and you're, it's already urgent, but now there's an extra timeline on it. You know, this is what happens as you're talking. You're just making me fall in love more and more with action films. I, I sometimes you forget how much you love action.

A really good action film. Yeah. In fact, like the Terminator, the original Terminator just came out in 4k. I've been watching it again. It looks like better than most movies look today. And that's a $4 million movie. It looks incredible. I mean, you can see every beat of sweat in this movie.

I was watching it again with somebody, a female, and there's always a point when you're watching that movie where she'll turn and say, I love this movie. You know, point that is, it's the point where Michael Biehn tells her, I came across time for you, Sarah. I love you.

Which is, you know, I always have. And you're just like, oh my God, there's like a real emotional love story there that he put into Titanic, that he put into Avatar. He figured out that thing that makes those movies work. By the way, I should say that. I mean, there is an aspect of, uh, El Mirachi that is a love story to me.

Yeah, it was a rough story. I don't know if you see it that way, but I got, when I just rewatched it, I was like. It's a tragic love story, but I was like heartbroken that she's dead. I got heartbroken twice. Let me tell you the second time it happened.

One, you're making that and you go, okay, this is how it has to go. But then now you're invested in this person. You go, oh man, she has to die. It's going to be really sad. In fact, the studio, even when they said they were going to remake it, good thing I put that ending on.

That's the only reason they showed it to an audience. We weren't going to remake it. They weren't going to put that movie out. They showed it, said, we need to show this movie to an audience because they might not like the fact that we killed a girl before we remake it.

All right. They showed it to an audience. The audience liked it the way it was. So they said, we're going to take this movie to some film festivals. And I was like, no, not this movie. This is my practice movie. No one's supposed to see this movie. And they go, no, no, you got something.

No, no, dude, if I knew anyone was going to see this, I would have shot it completely. Give me $2,000. I'll go reshoot half of it. Just knowing people are going to see it. I want something. And the head of the studio was really smart. He said, you don't know what you have here.

There's something real special. Let's take it to Telluride and see what happened. Telluride, Toronto did great. And like I said, in one Sundance. So now we had to put it out. But I was like, I would have said, don't show that movie. But they also questioned the ending and didn't come into play because we ended up making Desperado.

And the girl in Desperado doesn't die. You know, we didn't do that. We didn't kill Salma. But that's what needed to happen to Mariachi. Quentin called me one time. People would always say like, oh, Reservoir Dogs. He borrowed from this movie, Hong Kong action film called City on Fire.

It's about these guys. They're all criminals and they kill each other or whatever. And he said, hey, they're showing a double feature called East Looks West and West Looks East. They're showing Reservoir Dogs with City on Fire, the one they say I borrowed from. And they're showing Mariachi with a Hong Kong film called Run, where they ripped off Mariachi.

Like they just took the whole story. It had two Chinese actors in Mexico with the guitar cases. They just followed it beat by beat. So we were watching it and it was like scene by scene. They just rebate it without even getting the rights or anything. It was so fun to watch.

So we saw Mariachi first, then we watched that one. And I'm like, what's this big brothel scene though? This is in my movie. Oh, there's this scene in my movie where the bad guy has two girls in bed with him and they figured that was a whorehouse, but it was just this apartment.

So they got this whorehouse built up and they have helicopter shots and all kinds of big thing. And the action was awesome. But then, and the girl's really good. And then midway through the movie, I'm like, oh shit, she's going to die because I killed her in mine. I don't want her to die.

I like this actress. It's really great. And they have a really great love story. I go, well, I hope they change that part. No, they kill her. So I felt bad twice because I sealed, I sealed her fate. I sealed her fate because I have a line in Spike Kids 2.

And I started thinking when you create stuff, you start thinking, I wonder if that's how our creator is. He's like, oh shit, I just kind of threw that in a memo and now that whole town's going to get wiped out. You know, I didn't even think about the implications of that.

Um, cause there's a line I was making a character that Steve Buscemi plays in Spike Kids 2 and he's a creator. He just wanted to make a little miniature zoo for kids. And then he thought, well, what if I put some together like a lizard with a snake and it's a slizzard or you have a spider monkey, which is like literally spider legs and a monkey top.

So he makes that. And then he thought, hey, why don't I make, make them a little bit bigger for kids that have big hands and it got out of control and they turn into these huge creatures and now they're trying to eat them. So he's hiding. The kids find him hiding.

And he says this one line that people keep coming. It's on the internet a lot. This meme about this. Why is this blind, this movie? It's so wild. I thought I wanted Steve to come up to the camera and like, he's just, he's lost in his own creative world.

And he says, I can't even go outside because my own creations are going to eat me. Then he comes up to the camera and he goes, do you think God hides in heaven because he too lives in fear of what he created here on earth? It's like really, just for a moment, this thing.

And it's like, cause you feel like that way when you're, when you're creating stuff, like you're creating something and then now it's taking on a life on its own. And it's like, oh no, now this character has to die. Oh, I didn't want that. You know, this, this domino effect of creation.

And you start thinking, well, that must be what creation, maybe he is hiding up there because look at, he didn't expect all this shit to happen, giving us free will and all that. I mean, this particular context that, uh, you are the creator of this story. And it for some reason makes me feel good to know that you feel the pain of this character dying.

Yeah, absolutely. Cause like if I'm, I'm writing it, but if it's not coming from me, I'm as surprised sometimes. And Quentin would say that, you know, he'd say, you just get two characters talking when I'm writing my script. And then suddenly they're just talking to each other. And I was like, what does that mean?

And now, now I know what that means. It's like, he just gave them life. And now, now the dialogue's coming through him. Let me just ask you, you're the perfect person to ask about the genius of Quentin Tarantino. What makes him special as a director, as a creative mind?

What do you see in him? That's beautiful. That's brilliant. Since I met him, he was just like this brilliant, uh, ball of energy. And, uh, you know, like if you see him, I walk around his house and I'll see like a few sheets of paper, all handwritten out. I'm like, what's that?

And he goes, oh, that was something I was starting to write. And I, you know, not going to finish. I'm like, can I take these and go turn it into like a whole trilogy of films? You know, like what he throws away, all this mortal men would kill for you meet people like that.

I tell people, you know, your parents say, watch out who your peers are. You know, when you're younger, that means one thing, but once you get older, surround yourself around people who, who swing much farther than you, you know, that's just like, but that's really true. I mean, just by being around him and working with him, you get by osmosis, you learn stuff and it just ups your game because they're just swing way beyond you.

Jim Cameron was like that. So like when I first met him, I was trying to impress the hell out of him, you know, cause I was such a big fan. I was about to go do the Esperado and I went, Hey, I just took a three-day Steadicam course cause I can't afford a Steadicam operator.

So I'm going to operate Steadicam myself on Esperado. Now, if he was just my peer, he'd say, Oh, I did the same thing and I'm going to do the same thing. That, that would be like hanging out with somebody of your ilk, but you don't, you want somebody who's above that.

Do you know what he said? He goes, I bought a Steadicam, but not to operate it. I'm going to take it apart and design a better one. Us mere mortals trying to learn how to operate the camera. He's designing all new systems. That's the guy you want to hang out with.

Not someone who's doing what you're doing. So surround yourself by those kinds of people. And that's when you learn things like don't blink, you know, like somebody who's like really swinging for the fences and accomplishing so much. And Quentin was like that. So I met him at the festivals.

He saw Mariachi. He loved it. We came up, we talked and he said, you're going to like my next film I'm writing right now, Pulp Fiction. So I thought, man, I'm going to put this guy. He's so, he's so fun. I'm going to put him in, I'm going to write him in my Desperado script, which I was writing.

So that was before Pulp Fiction and all that. When I had cast him, I didn't know he was going to go become such a household name. I just was drawn to his energy and I'd already written him in and I met Steve Buscemi there. And I was like, I'm writing a character for Steve Buscemi.

But then I went back to the Sony lot where I was working on Desperado and Quentin and I ended up having offices right next to each other on the Sony lot by accident. I didn't even know that. I just met him and I go back and he just, cause originally Pulp Fiction was for TriStar cause Danny DeVito was a producer and he was going to make it for TriStar.

So he was there writing Pulp Fiction and I was writing Desperado. So I'd go show him like storyboards from Desperado and he'd come act out scenes of Pulp Fiction. And we got to be really good friends that way. We'd go eat lunch at Versailles across the street, the Sony lot.

And then Sony passed on Pulp Fiction. It's too weird, it's too long, $8 million movie or $7 million. They're like, eh, we're going to go make the next Pauly Shore movie instead. You know, like we don't understand this thing. And Miramax got it and they'd just been bought by Disney.

So they produced their first film was Pulp Fiction and then that thing went to Cannes and it was a whole thing. But what I loved about his story is that when he made Pulp Fiction, he had a director screening. He showed it to some directors and I wasn't able to go.

But anyway, I had dinner with him once and it was in my journal because I keep a journal. At 2.40 a.m. when after I dropped him off at his house, I said, oh wait, how did your movie come out? You know, Pulp Fiction, he had just finished it and he went, nah, it's still, it still feels like a movie Quentin would make.

It doesn't feel like a real movie. And I was like, that's fine. What do you mean? What does it mean? It feels like one of those movies I would make, like Reservoir Dogs. It doesn't feel like a real movie. And I was trying to be the supportive friend going, oh man, he was so excited about this movie.

Now he's bummed about it. And I was like, well, it should be different. It should be like, he's like, wouldn't have it. Drove off. So I thought, I don't know, I guess that wasn't the one. So I went home and I called some of the directors that were at the screening and they go, yeah, this isn't the one for him.

It's not, they had, none of them saw it. None of them saw it, but that, you know, you're like surprised. But that happened with George Lucas too, with Star Wars. Everybody saw that movie and was like, poor George. They showed it to all his director friends. Poor George, what do you just waste all this time with this for?

Only Spielberg was the one who said, it's naive and it's going to do really good because it's naive and kids will like it. But everyone else was like, what's he doing? We're artists. We're making art films. What's he doing this garbage for? Because nobody knows. It shows no one knows anything.

Not even the filmmaker. When you're being groundbreaking, you don't know what groundbreaking is. Not you or anyone around you, except maybe one or two people. So he said, there's one person like, oh yeah, who is your Spielberg? Goes Catherine Bigelow, without a doubt. She's the only one who said, there's something here.

No one else was seeing, was saying that. He said, in fact, because he remembered suddenly he'd forgotten the story, but if it wasn't in my journal, I would have forgot it too. He goes, in fact, one of my friends, Simon said, I want to sit you down and tell you all the things that are wrong with your movie, but I'll wait till you get back from the Cannes Film Festival.

And he goes and he wins the Palme d'Or. Then his friend's like, oh, what the hell do I know? I've only made one movie myself. So nevermind. I guess, I guess we're all wrong. So even he didn't expect that at all. So that was a shock, you know, even to him.

So think about that. Yeah. That means, what do you do? Commit to a body of work. Just do that. You don't know. You don't know what's going to be a Pulp Fiction and what's going to be a Jackie Brown. What's going to be, you know, you don't know. And you'd like to think they know, but they don't know either.

They feel it. Like I asked Jim Cameron, I said, do you see your movie really clearly? Like, can you see it like with, with hyper-focus? Cause it seems like that. And he goes, it's like really far. It's out of focus. And you work on it and you work on it, it starts coming.

I said, okay, good. So that's, that's normal. I thought maybe he had laser vision or something, but no, even him, he doesn't really know, but he feels that he can make decisions and he understands what a creative drive is and how to just keep being relentless about it. But it's not like they have all the, proximity is huge.

Proximity will change your life. Did for me, just being around those guys. They didn't teach me, Hey, I'm going to teach you how to make a movie. Just being next to them, being in their world, just ups your game. And you just, you're able to do things you weren't able to do before.

You get ideas you didn't get to do before. I did. I'll show you one of my painting things. You're not going to believe this freaking thing. I had a painter friend in Germany, Sebastian Kruger. He gives a workshop once a year that I'm going to go there. And I bet I'll learn more about directing by watching this guy paint than I will by watching another director.

Cause that's just now I know how creativity works. You're going to learn lessons outside of the box by doing that. And I try to practice before going out there. I was doing a Danny Trejo. I'll show you the before and after you're not going to freaking believe what you see, but this is, it really tells a story of how important proximity is.

So I'm, I do this painting. It's like, ah, it looks garbage. I'll show you. It looks like garbage. I'm not used. I can't do paintings that are just like, see, I, you never should say I can't cause you just cut your leg off, but I couldn't at the time paint, just paintbrush into paint and then write on the canvas like that without using some kind of medium, which this guy, Sebastian Kruger would do.

So first I did a digital painting of Danny Trejo, like just to get the framing and all that. And then I created, that's just like, that's like on a Wacom tablet, but then I did it with paint and it's like, ah, it's all cruddy. And it's too thick, the pain.

And it just looks, it looks, and I just gave up right away. I went, I was trying to pre-practice. I wouldn't be a total buffoon there because it was going the next week. And I thought he's using a different brush. Obviously he's using a better paint. The stuff just is clogging up and it's crap.

I'm sure when I get there. So I get there and he's doing a Mick Jagger and he starts with a mid-tone. He starts blocking in the face with a little tiny drawing of where the face goes. He starts doing that. He starts adding some highlights. There's the photo, his reference.

And I'm like, why, why are you, why are you concentrating so much on the cheek first? And he's like, it's different every time. And I go, why do you, what, what paints are you using? And he's like, it was regular acrylic paint. What brushes do you have? Regular brushes.

I'm like, how come mine doesn't look like yours? Well, let me try what he's doing. I mean, you start with a mid-tone. I'm going to do that Danny again. Start with a mid-tone. I'll start adding some highlights. And I did that. And everybody kept coming over going like, did you just do that?

And I was like, yeah, I don't know how, but it's very cartoony still. He's doing a very realistic Mick Jagger. Look how real that is. And you're just watching and he doesn't teach you anything. So he just starts painting. So this is the photo he had as a reference, but then this is his painting.

Right. And because I'm there, he's not teaching you how to paint. Through osmosis, you're like learning some of- You're seeing that there isn't a trick. Yeah. I thought he had a trick and that's why I couldn't get any further. He's using the same brush and the same paint. Well, how come I can't do that?

And you go, you do it. I go, I'm going to try and do something realistic. I've never done realistic before because I'm a cartoonist and everything, I was cartoony. And that was just easier for me because I thought I would need too much training. I did another Trejo. I started doing a realistic.

I finished out just one section of his face and put the pen down because I did that the same day. Nice. I got out of my way because seeing him get out of his own way, I think that's why sometimes people need to go to school for stuff like that.

Because then now, well, I just did four years of school. So now I must know. Now you've given yourself permission, but you could give yourself permission right away and it's going to come through. And drawing Danny Trejo of all people, it's like, there's so much going on there. It's like, he's so expressive.

He's so expressive. I mean, you've worked with him a lot and you've, I mean, he's one of those bad-ass humans on the screen. You've created that. Can you just talk about what it's like creating those characters? What was exciting about Desperados, I went to go make it and there were no Latin actors working in Hollywood because no one was creating roles for them.

So I thought, wow, I got to go create my own stars. We'll bring Antonio from Europe because they kind of know his name from the Almodovar movies. And I saw him in Tie Me Up, Tie Me Down when I was in the hospital writing mariachi or watching TV while I was a patient.

And there's a scene where he like headbutts Victoria Abril, you know, he just gave his headbutt, he goes, like that. And I was like, whoa, I bet that guy would want to be in an action movie. He's got something inside. So I called him when we were doing Desperado and I said, would you ever consider doing an action?

Oh man, I'd love to do action. So I said, I got a movie for you. I got a movie for you. It was the sequel to mariachi. And so Salma, I found in Mexico television, you know, doing, she couldn't get work in the U.S. because the roles in her.

Yeah, how did you find her? I mean, this is one of the greatest actors in the world. It was one of the best stories. I was really determined to hire a real Latin, especially Hispanic, and then she's Mexican actress to be the Mexican character. That's like as authentic as you can get.

And there was no one who was getting any jobs because no one was creating any. So there was no one that had any movies under their name because there was no one. It was a whole systemic problem, right? This was 94, 93. So I was watching a Paul Rodriguez show on Univision because he, I was trying to practice my Spanish because I was having to do all these Spanish interviews because mariachi was in Spanish.

That was the other part I didn't tell you. I didn't speak Spanish when I made that movie. We didn't grow up with it. So I never, I left that part out of the mariachi story because I thought people already didn't believe I made the movie by myself. They knew I made it in a language I didn't speak.

I should have said it because it'd be even more inspiring. Like now you have no excuse. I would wrote the English subtitles. Basically I wrote the titles, what became the subtitles. And then we take it to the actors and the actor would translate it for me. And I was like, I'd be like, holy, I would try to speak Spanish and say, like, let's record.

And they'd be looking at me like, that means let's remember the record doesn't mean record. Now I know back then I didn't know. So I'm watching Univision. And then there's Sama as a guest and she's a big soap star down there in Mexico. And she comes out, she's beautiful, she's funny, everyone's laughing.

She's Sama, everyone that we know now. And she starts talking about, you know, what I gather from what she's saying that she's having trouble finding any work in the U.S. because of her accent. And then, uh, Parajiga said, well, say something in English. And then she says, she sounds just like she does now.

And he goes, that's great. She goes, I know, I know. And I went, I think this is the girl. So I called her in my office and I videotaped our first meeting together. So I have that somewhere. Oh, that's awesome. And it's Sama. It's Sama. It's her with her energy, with her passion.

It's funny. She became instant friends with my wife, you know, before they walked over, your wife and I are best friends. She already was like part of the family. She's a godmother to my kids. Um, and I thought, I'm going to help you. You're going to help me. I need to have a Mexican actress in this and you're going to be phenomenal.

The studio didn't see it. They were like, what? She hasn't done anything. Why don't you just hire somebody else who, you know, already has a name? So if we just give her one movie, then she'll be someone who's in a movie and then you can keep casting. So I made a whole mother movie with her in English called Road Racers.

It was my second film for Showtime. Really cool little rebel without a cause type movie. Um, and she's, and I gave her a role in that. So we'd have an example of her doing English and they still were like, we need a screen test. We need to have a screen test with a bunch of other actresses, you know?

So I said, sure, let's do that. So I went over to her house the night before, before the screen test. And we worked on the scene, which is the best scene where she's operating on his arm and they've got all this chemistry. And I was just directing her through it, like completely down to when you pick up the water and you hand him the water, don't scream.

Oh, hot water. Just be like hot water. And while he's spitting it out and it's going to be a big dramatic action with like a very light delivery. And so we got it down to a science. The next day we show up, Antonio does a scene with all the girls come in.

He does it with her. Clearly they've got amazing chemistry. She just nails it. He's great. He loves the studio. And he's like, okay, you can hire. Reluctantly like that, right? But once they saw the footage come as we're shooting and they saw it on the big screen when they're watching the dailies, then they were like, oh my God.

And then they saw it. Then they saw what I saw when I met her. But sometimes, like you say, what do you do when people are like, hey, why come you're using these? Just know that not everyone's going to see it. You may have the only vision. Just keep going.

There's an instinct that tells you to keep going that way. You'll get proved right or wrong, or maybe you're slipping on the first two rocks or whatever, but follow your instinct because you can, everyone's going to have an opinion and it's not necessarily the right one. And when you're an independent filmmaker, you can make those decisions to change people's careers, that changes the world.

And that's why you want to remain independent. That's why what's happening now in the industry is great because I have to make movies like the way I started, which is what I've always liked to do, which is just doing it where we create our own destiny. We go, hey, we're going to make a movie.

We're going to make it for this budget so we can make it. And the story is going to be so character driven and cool. We're going to be able to get big actors to be in it because they're going to want to be in it. So Danny Trejo, you asked me about Danny Trejo.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. Danny Trejo. We're doing Desperado now. I'm casting all kinds of people. Now I have this character that I want to have a bunch of knives. He opens up his vest and there's a bunch of knives. So bring me all the coolest looking, you know, Latin actors we can find.

And before he even walked in, there's a picture of him. He already looked like the guy, but he was younger. He always just played prison inmates. It was a picture of him as an inmate in a prison. I want to give him a cool role, you know, just wherever this actor is.

He walks in and I see him. It's Danny Trejo. He sits down and I had the prop knife already made. And I say, you need to have this in your hand and look like you sleep with it. Like just practice flipping it around your hand. And I gave it to him.

You got the role. Just start practicing with that. And he gets up and walks out. He didn't have to say anything because there's no dialogue. He walks up. We get to the set and he kept saying, put me in coach. Give me a line. Give me a line. It's like, no, no, you're such a nice guy.

You're going to blow the whole mystique. I want this guy to feel like the most evil, scary guy of all. And you're such a nice guy. I didn't let him talk till dusk till dawn. But one thing I noticed was that the town we were shot in, the Mexican town, which is the same town I shot Mariachi.

We went back there because I wanted to pay back the city. And so we had this big movie there and they didn't really know Antonio because he was in European movies. Salmo hadn't come to the set yet, but they saw Danny Trejo there in his vest looking like a Mexican icon.

They would go like this. Everyone thought he was the star. And I just know magnetism when I see it. And I went, this guy's got something. So I went to him and I said, I got a movie we're going to do someday. This was 94. We didn't make this movie for 15 years.

Machete. You're going to be Machete. I had, I had an idea for Machete then. It wasn't the same story. I had seen a story. Actually, Mariachi, the guy from March sent me this funny story. He said, Hey, look at this story that the USDA and FBI sometimes would hire a Mexican federal to come do a job for 25 grand that they didn't want to get their own guys killed on.

I said, that's Machete, the guy that they pay. But he's not doing it for the money. It turns out he has to get this guy that escaped Mexico. And that's the twist. So that was the original story I had. I said, we're going to do this someday. And we talked about it for years and never did it.

Never had got around to doing it. So when I did Spy Kids, I put him in Spy Kids and I said, Hey, let's pay tribute to that character we never got to make. And you'll be uncle Machete. He's a gadget guy, but he's got a mysterious past. But then a few years later, Quentin and I were doing Grindhouse and he'd already done Dustal Dahl with me.

You know, I was building my own Latin star system. Salmo showed up in a bunch of my movies. Cheech shows up in every movie. Danny shows up. I brought Cheech out of retirement and put him in my movie. I needed to create my own Latin star system because all my scripts, because when you write in your own voice, you're going to write probably somebody that's Latin, you know, so you need to have a star system that matches that so that you don't have trouble casting and people are like, well, you can't hire this person.

So I built up my own star system. So Danny was one of my stars. So after we're doing Grindhouse, we had to do fake trailers for Grindhouse. And I told Quentin, I know what trailer I'm going to do for the movie I never got to make with Danny called Machete.

That'll be so fun. Finally get that out of our system. And doing a trailer is so fun. It's two days of shooting. Just still being that resourceful guy. We asked this company that had a digital camera we wanted to use. Can you let us send it to us for a couple of days screen test?

I mean, camera test. Instead of shooting a camera test, we shot the trailer. So we got a free camera, shot the trailer with him. And it's just the money shots, him opening his vest full of machetes, you know, him aiming that gun, him in a waterfall with two gals.

And I just came up with this really funny trailer and we shot it. People were screaming at the premiere. You couldn't even hear it. They just wanted that movie so badly because there was blaxploitation in the seventies. There was never mexploitation. It felt like this should have existed, but it didn't.

It's Mexican superhero. They just never seen anything like that. You know, now, you know, but like even his mom calls him a shame. Like he just became this guy. And I've saw 250 movies that he's been in. Machete is his most famous one. So for five years, five years, people would come up to us and say, where's Machete?

Why aren't you? Where's the, when's that movie coming out? We're like, it's not a real movie, but when it looks real, we want to see that movie. So we finally made the movie because people just asked for it. And I used, I wanted to, I was adamant about being resourceful again.

All those shots that are in the trailer are really great. I got to reverse engineer the trailer into a movie so that I can use that shot that's in the trailer. Like this girl in the waterfall. Why would this girl be in the waterfall? I don't have a really clever way that he gets the bad guy.

Her hair's kind of, her face is kind of covered by this hair. We'll cast Lindsay Lohan there or the Senator will switch it out for Robert De Niro. Well, I just reverse engineered it. So every time there's a shot in the trailer, it's in the movie, but I shot all the footage around to lead up to it.

That's another fun, creative exercise is to reverse engineer something. You just did like this on the day. You just threw a bunch of cards out basically with that trailer. And now you got to go make a movie using all those cards. That's like a creative exercise that I thought so satisfying.

So fun. Yeah, that was beautiful. You're, you're actually known in part, maybe you can correct me, but to do pretty unexpected, surprising, kind of interesting casting. So Robert De Niro is an example of that. And that's just a great role. The second aspect of that I heard the story that you can just get an actor in and out in just a few days, really fast.

The, the, the Robert Rodriguez experiences they call it. How do you make that happen? Like, can you just tell the story? Well, I'm the editor, I'm the cameraman, I'm the DP. And so when I call him and say, I've got you as the villain in this whole movie, but I'm going to, I swear, I'm going to shoot you on four days.

You come down four days. Like there's a scene where he's in the hospital. He's just smiling. He's having such a good time. Cause he couldn't believe it. I said, guess what? When you wake up from your hotel room at the Stephen F. Austin, you just crossed the hallway. That's the set.

The room, the room next to yours, we turned into the hospital set. So you're just going to come laying there in your pajamas. Really? That's what you did? Well, yeah, we had to save time. We only have four days. So everything had to be very thought out to be like, boom, boom, boom, let's shoot the money, get him out of this.

We don't have to spend a lot of money on him. Book a room in a hotel set up to look like a hospital room. Yeah. That's our set. And it's real. You don't have to dress it. And it's just right there. All you do is put like a little tube there, you know, like a, for his IV.

And then you have a couple of nurses and it looks like. Just genius. It was Robert De Niro. Resourceful, resourceful. Next door. But, uh, I said, you're going to think about me when you're on your next meet the Fockers movie and you're on there for six months where they have you sitting in a trailer.

I don't like to do that. So, you know, I gave Lady Gaga her first two movies because, um, after Machete, she said publicly, she said, I saw Machete and my song Americano should have been in Machete. I thought she saw Machete. So I called her up and I said, Hey, I'm making a sequel and I would certainly use your music.

But have you ever thought about acting? Cause you're an amazing performer. I think you'd be, I've worked with a lot of actors who are also musicians and they're always great. Cause I already know how to be a persona, be on stage, be in front of a bunch of people, which most actors can't do.

And she said, actually, I studied acting before I became a singer. So, well, you'll never be able to be in a movie because you know what? They don't know how to shoot people out. They want six months of your time and you've got, and you're always on tour, but if you come be here, I have a part for you.

I can shoot you out in half a day, this whole section of a movie and I'll shoot your movie poster. She's like, okay. So she shows up. I had all the sets, like a conveyor belt right next to each other. Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. She's in the car. That's why she had me do her music video for rain on me later.

She said, we should just go to Austin. Robert put me on a grease. I was throughout that whole movie. I don't know how we did that. It was half a day. She was there half a day. I did the same for Sin City too. I was like, I have a set here waiting for you.

If you're on tour in Houston, just drive into Austin. I'll shoot you out in half a day. You could be in a scene with Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Sure. She came down. So wait, how do you take Robert De Niro? How do you take Lady Gaga and like solve the puzzle of all the scenes that have to be in?

How do we shoot them quickly, efficiently, conveniently? You have to edit your own movie. I have this analogy, a food analogy that works really well. Script is like your grocery list. Filming is like grocery shopping, getting the best performances, getting the best beat, getting the best ingredients, right? Editing is like the cooking.

Too much of this and not enough of that. You fuck the whole thing up. So there's so many filmmakers do not edit. And they give it to some other guy who might look at all your ingredients and go, well, this is all great, but I'm going to go make a fucking souffle.

And he makes something else. So by doing that job, I mean, like I've worked on some big stuff and I realized finally after many years, because I've always edited, I realized this is why movies cost so much. There could be 150, 200 people on the crew. And I swear not one of them knows how to edit, not one.

So they're getting the wrong stuff. They're having to reshoot shit. The editor is in a room somewhere useless calling after the fact. We still need to get this closeup, but you got to reshoot that because it doesn't match because no one knows editing. So if you just know that you're already miles ahead of 99% of Hollywood, but that's just how I learned by accident.

So I kind of stumbled upon it. But, um, and I realized that's what the problem is because across the board, I'm watching them going, that's not going to match. You guys are just spending money, sending crews out, shooting stuff for this. It's just, it's a clusterfuck. Let me show you.

And that's how it's in city. Bruce Willis, nine days. Well, Brittany Murphy's in all three stories, one day, Benicio Latoro, three days. It's just like, you're just shooting this stuff. Mickey Rourke is in a sequence with Rudger Hauer. We shot eight months apart. I didn't have Rudger Hauer until I was doing Sharkboy and Lavagirl.

So I just shot Mickey acting with me and then I shot Rudger acting with me and I just cut them together. What's weird is like editing exercises or like I used to do these editing exercises where I would do my VCRs together and I would cut my movies, but sometimes I would just cut a music video and I cut a music video once because I was a big fan of Rudger Hauer and a big fan of Mickey Rourke.

So I said, I want to make it look like they're in a movie together. So I cut this music video together. But, and so it shows like lightning on Rudger and the hitcher and then lightning on Mickey from Rumblefish, but Rumblefish is black and white. So I made the whole thing black and white.

I was like 19, I was 19 years old when I did that. And then years later, I'm making Sin City. I shot Mickey not knowing who the other actor was going to be until I cast him eight months later and it was Rudger. I'm cutting them together to look like they're in the same movie and it's in black and white.

And I'm like, I've done this before. Oh my God. I found that old video. It's like, oh my God, I already made a movie with him in black and white. That's some weird shit, right? That's the magic of creativity. It's like sometimes when you have a vision, it's not clear, but it's coming to you from the future.

So you got to just follow the voice. No matter what anyone says about your curtains, just follow the voice you got in your head because you don't know and you're not smart enough to know. And you don't need to know. You just need to do, you just need to be the hands.

So this is like what you can do with no time or money. When you know all those jobs, it's the benefit of knowing those jobs. Like I said, the more, you know, those jobs, the more, you know, your main job, which is being creative, but on the day thinking on your feet.

So I'm going to show you this, um, this test. Okay. So for Nestled on the TV series, I would always shoot the first episode in the last episode of like a seven or eight episode season. There's three seasons. By the time we got to the third season, I was doing Alita, so I couldn't do the big finale episode.

And my actor who plays the George Clooney character, DJ Catrona, he's somebody who fucking wanted to be a writer, was writing. He's wrote Fight and Flight. This is a movie that's going to come out with Josh Arnett. That's his, he wrote it. And after doing this, he was like, man, hearing you talk, you know what I got, this is what I love about you inspire people.

The feedback loop inspires you back. He said, man, hearing your talk for red 11 and the cards and, uh, I've got a script that's partially written. I'm just going to go, I'm going to go crank it out in 3d. I'm going to cut off the phone in 3d. I'm going to finish that thing in three fucking days.

And he came back and he said, I finished the script and I read it and I go, when you read it in three days and go, well, I wrote something before, but I just kept thinking I wasn't ready. And then you told me the thing about not being ready.

And you said that it really resonated. I went and I finished it in three days. I go, man, I'm going to do that. I'm going to go do the DJ method. I call the DJ method. I have a bunch of half-baked ideas that I'm just going to go turn off the phone and finish the thing in three days and I'll fix it later.

But the three days, there's going to be pure pipe. It's just going to be coming through. Cause you're just going to be picking up the pen. So anyway, he went, he came to me with this idea. He said, Oh man, I was hoping you'd do the last episode of just till dawn.

Cause I had this great idea for a scene. We're in a zombie town, Western town. We have those ones, those guns where you have to pull the trigger, you know, the hammer back before you can fire. So I thought, what if I have a gun that's empty and I got bullets in the other hand and I bump into a zombie, the bullets go flying.

I jump and I catch all the bullets and shoot the guy before I hit the ground. Okay. That's kind of like a real cool, like desperado type thing, but dude, this is a seven day shoot for these episodes. Every one of the crew will have a different idea on how to do that.

Stunt guy will put you on wires cause you have to do all that action or the DP isn't even operating the camera. It's a camera guy. The director doesn't know how to shoot. He's not operating the camera. Your editors in a room somewhere, VFX guys aren't there. You're not going to be able to ask them how to do it.

But I, in my own VFX, I came up with how we did all the shots and Sid City and all those spiking movies. We need one guy to come do it. I'll come do it for you. I'll come do it. Cause I'm already going to be there. Cause I have to shoot a second unit fight scene for the other actor who wanted a cool fight scene.

So I was already doing that. When it comes to your scene, we'll switch places because it's got to be done quick. Cause you've got, you got to shoot it in 20 minutes. Cause you've got a ton of other shit. You got to shoot and you'll just never get it.

You won't even get it in a film schedule, you know, in a regular movie schedule. It's just too crazy. You need somebody with a vision to do the whole scene. So this is what it would look like if you're on the set. I'm going to show you the footage and I'm going to show you the scene.

I have to show it to you a couple of times. Cause you're not going to believe what you're about to see. So if you were on the set, this is what it would look like. So I get there, they said, we're ready for that scene. So I get over there to the set and I go, okay, where, where are you coming out of this building?

Where are you getting the bullets from that body? Okay. Bring that body closer. Okay. Stunt guy, bring a pad over. I want to see you just jump and start to twist as if you're turning. I just want to see how much airtime you can get to get any action before you hit the pad.

He starts to jump. He's barely starts jumping. He's already hitting the pad. So I was like, okay, that ain't going to work. You get out of here, DJ, you're going to do it. I have no idea how I'm going to do this. I hadn't thought about it before, but now you're there.

So awesome. And now the options are very limited. You're very limited. Look at the sun. You're going to see the sun not move. You see, that's the point where the sun starts getting lost. I have to shoot this in 20 minutes. You're going to do three jumps and I'm going to cut it to look like one jump.

All the bullets are going to miss. The only one's going to go in. So here, just follow what I'm saying. We don't have time. What cameras do we have? What's on the A camera? A long lens. Oh yeah, that's my camera. I'll operate that. What's on the B camera?

Steadicam. Leave it on steadicam. No chance, no time to convert it. At one point, I want to lower it. So just flip it upside down. We'll flop it later. Give me the main camera. Okay, DJ, start running towards that bullets and grab it and pretend like it gets shot out of your hand.

I shoot it in slow motion, but I'm showing you how it would look on the set. Okay. Now the bullets are flying. I'm going to add those digitally and I'm going to hold the bullets up to the light in each angle so that they know what it's supposed to look like so they can match that.

Otherwise, it'll look phony. Now, first jump. I just want you to commit to just jumping out and just look at the barrel. Just look at the barrel on your hands when you're jumping because that'll look like you're looking at the bullets. And just don't even think about that you're going to catch a bullet.

Don't think about that you're going to start turning. Just stretch your body out. Get a really graphic. Look at how cool that looks. And then the side view, it's shot this at the same time. You can already tell it's going to look like bullets are missing, right? Okay. Now I need this part though.

I need the part where he's catching the bullet. This little window there. How am I going to do that? With a lens that long, it's going to be all out of focus. It's not going to be slow motion enough. He even knows me and he's like, what the hell am I doing?

So I just lay on the pad and rock up and down. And as you're coming down, that'll look like you're falling as I'm zooming in because I'm operating the camera and I'm cutting this in my head. Yeah. And I'm saying, just do it again. He's like, what is it?

Rock up. And then as you go down, it's going to look like you're falling. Well done bullets. Okay. Well done. You've caught a bullet. One went in now. Second jump. When you do the next jump as if we just passed those other moments, you've caught a bullet already. So now you're going to snap it close and start your turn.

It's all you'll get before you hit the pad. Snap turn. Right. So like, okay, this is, I want the cameras to feel like they're dropping with them. That'll give you more of the sensation. So let's actually lower that steady cam shot, flip it upside down and get a low angle.

So yeah, look at the sun's right there. Hasn't gone behind the building yet. That. And then my camera, I lowered my camera down and I got that. Right. Okay. Now last jump. I bury a thin, I said, just bury me, bring me a thin mattress. Cause I want him to do all the stuns.

I don't want a stunt guy. Cause he does this himself. He just did it in three jumps with the audience. No, they'll just be like, we believe that this guy can do anything. I want you just to finish by turning and cocking the hammer back and firing before you hit the ground.

I'll give you two takes for that. Almost gets it there. Then we do a second take. Boom. Now that other one was probably a little better, even though you don't really see it. I've got to go do everything now. I got to cut it. I got to add the sound effects myself.

I got to put the music in myself because music guys would just end up filling it with music and ruin it. Sound effects guys would just fill it full of sound effects and ruin it. I want all the sound to drop out. So as he's jumping, all you hear is the wind.

I mean, his jacket, the clinking of the bullets as they're bouncing off. So you have this breathless moment, no music, cut the music. And that moment you cut it so that you're like, I wonder if he's going to make it. Right. So I go home, I cut it before I even have the visual effects.

And I just cut it that night because I cut my own sound effects. I cut my sound effects in. You can already tell it's going to work. You can already see when the bullets, not there, you can tell by the sound where they're going to be. It's going to work.

I call them up and say, dude, this is going to work great. So then I go to the effects guys and I go, okay, there's bullet in this frame. And the next frame is here. Cause I used to animate in the next frame. It's there. Then it hits the barrel and then it starts bouncing this way.

I want it that clear so we can follow that a bullet was supposed to go in and that it bounced way over there. And then this bullet bounced way over there. And then they send it back and a bunch of bullets come down. No guys, listen to what I say.

I'm going to show you again. I'm going to draw it to you again. Just the sound will play. Like there's multiple bullets flying. I don't need to see all those bullets or the eye's not going to know where to go. So then they got it right. Brilliant. And then check this out.

I'm going to show it to you twice. Cause you're not going to believe it changes direction. Wow. Wow. Well done. You don't even see that in a feature film, much less a TV show. Well done. Just as a director. Well done. Oh, thank you. Here just one more time and I'll show you something you didn't notice both times.

That's amazing. Just those decisions coming together perfectly. Coming together. And like this, you got, you got minutes just, uh, moving the camera. Like you decided to do really work really well. The balancing of the mattress, whatever. And it's not like you have this whole plan figured out ahead. You're literally in the moment you're, it's coming through you.

But you're seeing it though, right? I'm seeing it because I've done it enough. That's why you really want to learn all those jobs because it comes, it comes to a moment like this when the shit's fucking hitting the fan. You got to know how to pull it out. You could have gotten all those people together and they never would have figured that out.

You had one person had to see it all the way through. You're seeing the bullet, how it's going to go in the, in the result. I've done enough times to know that if you don't do it just right, you're going to, you're going to lose the image. You're not going to know where to follow and you'll miss the point.

And also, yeah, I love that you're thinking about where the eyes of the audience will go. And that's like, I feel like too many people might think about some more general concept of a scene versus like the audience, where's their eyes? Where's their eyes? Well, you're drawing, you're drawing it through sound, through picture.

I'm going to show you. If you notice without the sound, you don't really see him clip that thing back. The sound is so central here. Watch this. You, you, you don't really. Right. I thought I saw it. You think you saw it, but you hear it. And so you feel like see, but watch it's actually, he's already finished.

You don't really see him do it, you know, but you swear you saw it in a closeup because the sound is in a closeup. I put the sound in a closeup. Now here's another thing you didn't notice. He hits this ground in the first shot. Watch one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.

You didn't even notice it because I didn't play the sound there. So if you don't hear it, you don't see it. And if you don't see it, but you play a sound, you hear it, then you see it in your mind. Right. So check that out now with the sound on, and you'll see both those parts play completely different.

Right. Now you hear it. See, I know you can get away with that because I know editing and I'm like, if I don't play a sound, I can go ahead and milk that shot as long as I want. I'll make him be in the air longer, even though he's actually touching the ground by not playing the sound.

And that comes from, you said directing, but it's not directing. Like people can direct and say, this is what I want, but to actually execute it, you need to be a craftsman. And to be a craftsman, you have to learn all those crafts. And not just with the visuals, but with the sound.

The sound too. Sound is so important. Sound is half the picture. Sound. And if you cut sound, you realize how important sound is. I would learn so much by doing those movies, like Desperado action movies where you go, wow, the sound, I can add an extra sound effect of an extra punch.

He didn't even throw. And it sounds like he's beating the shit out of this guy. And you only need to see one or two hits and you can hear five, you know, you know, you know where you can push your limits because you've done it. You've done it and you've got the experience.

It's so amazing that you can use sound to make a person believe they saw something that wasn't actually there on the screen. Yeah. Your brain fills it in. That's crazy. And that's why that's so important because if you don't know that you'll be on the set shooting 10 takes of that because you're like, no, he didn't, you know, I didn't see him click it back.

He didn't see, I didn't see him click it back. That's really needed. I can do that with sound. Let's just go. Let's just keep moving. When you say sound close up, what does that mean? The sound, all the other sound dropped away and all you hear is like the sound, like the mic's right on that thing so that you hear it so big in your ear that you swear it was in closeup too, but just the sound was close.

How do you, uh, sorry, just to give an insight into like that process of sound design, what are you, uh, like listening to the sound and just like experiencing the feeling that creates. And then you're like, that's just right. Lane and post a lot. So I have a whole library of sound effects from all my movies.

So I can pull up like the gun sound we created for Bruce Willis and Sensity and use that and mix it with Antonio's gun from Desperado. You know, I remember in four rooms, there's a scene where the bellhop goes into the hotel room, jams his key into it and clicks it.

And I used all gun sounds for the sounds of the key instead of key sounds. Cause it wasn't sound close up enough. So if you listen to it, you hear like, uh, all these sounds from gun to do the key is it's like, that conveys the sound better. You know, I'll use different kinds of sounds that just have impact and put it somewhere like when he hits the ground or, so I like playing with all that in posts when I'm editing, because it makes my editing job easier.

Sometimes it's like, oh, the sound is covering me. I don't, I don't need to keep trying to massage this. The sound is actually selling it. And so I keep those sound effects into the final movie. So it's just all part of necessary. It's like, it's like being a chef.

You're there cooking and you're going like, I know the recipe says this, but I think it really could use jalapenos and some extra pepper and maybe a little more salt. And then it needs an acid of some kind. So I'm going to add some lemon juice. Yeah. You made me realize, I'm not sure where I saw that, but you were, you were talking about making sort of almost like home films for fun.

And I think you mentioned how exciting you can make a very mundane scene by just adding sound. Yeah. There was, I think there was like a little kid for this car. Yeah. One of those little and, but I added a motor sound to it. And it's like, wow, it sounds realistic somehow.

Like, I don't understand what my brain is doing. And then we're playing with these little cars, filming ourselves playing with the cars, but then I replaced it with real car sounds. And it just, your brain links the reality of the real thing. It's crazy. And you realize how unimportant the visual is and how important the sound is actually.

Sound is everything. That's what I was really lucky in Mariachi that my camera didn't work for sound. Cause then I got really good sound that I would have gotten with a shitty mic out of frame, because that's the first telltale sign of a low budget movie is bad sound, bad sound right away.

You can already hear all this hiss and all this mic was too far. And you're like, low budget movie before your eyes even tell you the sound gives it away. Isn't that amazing? The audio is first. Sound is first really, even though it's a visual medium. That's so crazy.

Uh, just on the, what's the plan with the, with the four action films? Like what, what, what are the next steps? I'll probably direct more than one. Cause there's already several that I want to do, but I was, I'm going to direct at least one, but I'm producing all three, all four there at my studio.

It does draw you in. It draws you in and it makes you go now think of ideas you never would have thought of for mainly because it has a filter. Well, now I don't have to think of all these ideas. I can only, I actually have like that, like me on that set, there's only very few things I can actually come up with that are just action driven.

First, when I have a great character, you'll get to it a lot faster with a filter. That's the beauty of a filter is that now you've just shrunk your, your target. And now you can hit that target and people are coming up with ideas because now they've got proximity and they've got a reason to come up with the idea.

And they've got a deadline, which is the best thing you can do is have a deadline because when you have a deadline, you can freaking move mountains. You know, I had a spy kids in the theater every year, three years in a row, not being pre-planned every year. There was a spy kids.

Now the third one was the biggest one, biggest cast, mostly green screen, video game, and the first digital 3d movie ever. So getting visual effects companies to make that, we realized, oh, I shot it with two cameras. That means each effect shot has to be done twice from a different angle.

So I went to the studio midway through that and said, there's not going to be a movie in the theaters in time. You're going to have to push the date back. And they said, okay, we've never heard you panic. We'll push the date back for you. They called back 10 minutes later.

I was like, oh, thank God, because it's really complicated. I didn't know it was going to be this complicated, but I wanted a challenge. And they said, McDonald's will sue us for $20 million if you move the date. You have to have a movie in the theater. We started shooting that movie in January of 2003.

It was in 3d in theaters by July. That's the fastest any effects movie has ever been done because you had no choice. So deadline makes you do things and make decisions really quick. And it was the biggest of the three. Deadlines are good. And it's hard for us to self-impose a deadline sometimes because we know it's a bullshit deadline and your brain knows it's a bullshit.

But why do deadlines work? Because when the deadline's coming up, what do you do? You start to put the pen to the paper and it starts just flowing, right? You have no choice. You have to get out of the way and open the pipe and it just comes out and you're shocked.

You're like, oh my God, I should do everything at the last minute. Well, no, you don't have to. But if you just learn how to open that pipe earlier, you wouldn't be in a rush, but you had to get out of your way because your deadline was up and you had to come up with it.

So many people are going to come up with all these extra great ideas at the last minute. But it looks like everyone who's already signing on, because it's cool they don't know when the deadline is. They keep writing in saying, when is the deadline for this? And we say, well, when we close the funding in May.

But we didn't say when still. So I think that gives them a sense of a deadline like, shit, it might be May 1st or maybe May 2nd, so we better get my idea going. So I think it works in your favor because then you come up with stuff. And you're going to feel so enriched by doing the idea that you're not going to care if it gets picked or not.

You're going to love this idea so much. It could turn into 10 other things you never even thought about. That's the beauty of doing a project. Nothing ever goes to waste. So many ideas that were sitting around that I'd come up with and put a lot of time in are now like, oh, I can do these now.

I have, I know how to finish it now. I have to ask you about Alita. So you've done so many incredibly innovative projects. This is one of them. It turned out to be this visual masterpiece. There's a bunch of complexity, beautiful complexity about it in that it started out as a film that James Cameron was supposed to make.

And then you started to collaborate with him on it. And these two, I would say brilliant directors, but with different styles, like you were talking about. And so, plus there's the complexity of, for people who haven't seen it, you're putting this artificial creation, this beautiful, photorealistic, artificial creation of a human being into a real world.

So you have to capture the performance, not just the motion, but the performance of this actor, put them into this, with the power of technology, into the real world to convey all the emotion, the richness of the human face. Can you just speak to the process of bringing that world to life?

Sure. I mean, why not? I never would have attempted if it wasn't Jim, because Jim has figured all this out. So just to get you, again, remember, like I said, hey Jim, I'm operating a study can. What do you think of that? Well, I'm designing a new system. That's always how it is between him and I.

So when I went to show him Desperado and it was done, he said, you might not want to sit through, if you don't want to sit through it while I'm watching it, it's fine. Do you want to read any of my scriptments, my treatment scripts, you know, called scriptments?

I said, sure. He goes, I have Spider-Man and I got Avatar. So this was in '95, he was showing me the scriptment for Avatar, which there was no technology for that. He was already doing stuff that didn't exist. Yeah. And I was reading it going like, it's a great story.

And he's like, I don't know how the fuck he's going to do this. It's impossible. It's not even, he'd just done, you know, Terminator 2 a few years before. It's like, that was the thing of the art. So Alita was going to be the movie he did first to prepare for Avatar.

And so he had already done some prep work on it. It was based on a manga. But before they did that, they just started doing some tests for Avatar. And then as they got deeper into the test for Avatar to prepare for Alita, they went, I guess we're making Avatar first.

So Alita got kind of pushed to the side and they ended up doing it, which ended up becoming such a journey to make that movie, to get the technology, to build it, to make it. Because I remember visiting him on the set. I mean, I've known him so long.

I was on the set of Titanic. That's how long I've been around this guy. I was on the set of Titanic. I was on the set with Sarah Connor and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Eddie Furlong for the 3D ride he made for Universal a few years later. So, I mean, I feel like I've been around him a lot of his career.

And to be able to visit the set, you know, of Avatar and remember him showing me, like, artwork they did. Very photorealistic. And he goes, "I'm curious to see how photoreal it'll be when we're finally done with this process." Because you don't get to see it until it's almost done.

And I was like, "Wow, he's just shooting blind. He's really..." Talk about me shooting mariachi, not seeing the footage. He's making this whole movie not even knowing what the end result's going to look like at all. Because you're not going to know till you get there. And when you get there, if you don't like it, there's not a lot you can do.

So, just seeing him do that and have that success really made it easier for me to do Alita. Because then it's like, "Okay, we don't know." Again, we don't need to know. We know we'll get there, but we don't know how we're going to do it. We're going to start.

And anything that I would come up with on this movie and his team, because he had all his weather people working on it, he had them all working on it too. I'd do a fast version of his process because it's a lot of live action. Avatar's mostly CG. I have live action sets.

You have to come to my studio because I still have the whole Alita city in my back lot. Well, here at the Troublemaker studio? Yeah. That's where it was... Yeah, it was shot here. So, when you go see my city, I built it very resourceful. This is weird. It looks just like The Town for Mariachi, but it's in my backyard.

I'm like, "It looks better than The Town for Mariachi." Yeah. 90,000. It's the largest standing set in the country because sets are always mowed down for the next movie, but I just kept it there. So, we used to shoot it all the time for Mexico or South America or Europe or whatever.

It's seven streets and we add it digitally above it. The ceilings are 20 feet high. You got to come see. You don't believe that it's here. It's unbelievable. Where is it north of Austin? It's where the old airport was. So, it's on 51st Street. It's really close to town.

I would love to visit. You got to come see. You're not going to believe it. All my props, all my stuff from all my movies. So, people who are investing in brass knuckle, that's why they say it's like a Willy Wonka movie because they're going to get to come check out all that stuff and be in proximity and see, Oh, like me with that painter.

It's not a trick. He's just doing it. Then you realize you can do it too. But, um, we thought let's shoot mostly live action and we'll just replace her, but we still have to figure her out. You have to cast the right actress. And when I saw Rosa Salazar, she was just amazing.

She made me cry in audition for the first time. I was like, Oh my God, this person has some, if we can capture even a, a fourth of her facial expression, it'll bring so much life. And they got it one-to-one and, uh, it really helped Jim on the next Avatar and Weta because they got to try out a bunch of things.

That's why Avatar, the second Avatar way of water looks so much more refined than the first Avatar because of that middle step of doing Alita. It was training ground for them. Can you actually educate me on the Weta process? Is this like a, a performance capture technology? Yeah, we have her in a suit for capturing her body movements, but also facial capture.

It's a performance capture of all her performance, all her emoting. And we have witness cameras around everywhere to pick up where she is and everything else is real. And we're just replacing her, but with someone even smaller in size. So you have to erase everything behind her. There's like a bunch of technical things you do, but the idea is to whatever performance she gives, she's such a great actress is to capture all of that.

Cause then this character that doesn't even exist will feel very emotional. And you have to, you have to be tied to it. You have to feel its heart. She was the heartbeat of it. So she's acting with all this, acting with all that, but it just disappeared. You know, she's not even, it's like, it's not even there.

Like we don't notice that this is here. It's like that she can just perform through it. What was some interesting, unique, challenging things about you directing her performance in this, in this kind of world? I just, I just knew she had to be her. It was going to be just so easy with her.

She's just so great. She, everything was just so real and everything was just like, she's that character. She becomes that character who's seen this world for the first time. No special effects going to help you with that. If the performance isn't there. So it was all about getting the performance and casting the right actors.

That's why you get Christoph Waltz there and you get Jennifer Connelly, you know, these masters are all in the set. Mahershala Ali, you know, you've got an amazing cast of people and that's really the heart, the heart of it so that the technology kind of goes away. How hard is it to get the actors to act when like the full world is not around you?

We put so much of the world around them. Like when you see the city, we put like a blue screen way in the back to just make the city keep going. But we built the sets there, the town, we built the real set. So everything was very tangible and real.

And that way she had to fit into that world and be as real as that. Because if it was all done in CG, well then now you can fudge everything. But if you put her in a real environment, that's a real challenge. And that really helps them on Avatar because that whole place has created an Avatar.

You could get away with a lot, but they wanted to commit to that kind of detail. And on the next Avatar, that's why it just feels like you're really there. It's just stunning. And you get there by having something to work on like this to take the technology to the next level.

So it was cool to be able to help, you know, knowing that you're being helpful to him in his process and not just distracting him. But then also he liked that his artists had something else to work on besides just Avatar to just work on something, you know, different to freshen up their perspective on things and methodology.

And so, yeah, that was a really exciting movie to work on. And then we got to shoot it here, a Jim Cameron movie here in Austin. That was the best having him here. And that my whole crew who's worked with me 25, 30 years, everyone had an extra spring in their step because they're like, wow, we're working on a Jim Cameron movie.

I mean, that's just like a high bar of achievement for everybody, you know, working on it. Since we talked about a few other directors, can you speak to the genius of James Cameron? Like what, what makes him special? You talked about some of the difference in your approach in his, he's created some of the most special movies ever also.

What's behind that? What would you say is interesting about the way his creative mind works? I think any of those guys, George Lucas, you know, him, you know, John Lasseter when he did Pixar, it's a mix of, and this was, I got really lucky. My first job was a Photoshop because my dad had a friend who owned a Photoshop.

And he said, your summer job when I was 16, go work for my friend, Mario. So I go to Mario's Photoshop and I'm, you know, developing pictures or, you know, think you develop photos from film. And he said, here, take this camera home. Give me one of his cameras, take this camera home and some film.

I need you to learn how to use the camera so you can help me sell the cameras. Yeah. So I went home and I, you know, I have a bunch of siblings. So like, well, the stars are bedhead, taking all these pictures of everybody. I take it back and he looks at the pictures when he develops, he's like, whoa, these are really creative.

You're a creative person. So when sometimes people tell you something that you don't, you can't unhear and he goes, that's a gift, which you need to know now, now you need to become technical because most creative people need technicians and technicians always need creative people because they're not usually the same.

You're born with creativity. It's against your nature to be technical, but you can learn if you apply yourself. And if you're both technical and creative, you'll be unstoppable. And I was like, stop. Wow. So here, I want you to learn zone photography. I want you to learn this, the technical part of it.

So that's why I didn't take a crew of Mariachi because I knew if I'm just a creative person and I need a crew to go actually technically make the movie, I'll always need something. And when you want to really change your life, you want to get your, I need list down to as little as possible.

Because if you're like, well, I want to shoot my movie, but I need a cameraman and I need somebody who knows how to light it. Your, your, I need list keeps growing. That's further and further and further. You will be from what you need to accomplish. So I kind of went down there without any help.

So that remember that script analogy where the guy said, throw away three scripts. I said, no, I'm going to write three scripts and then shoot each one. So I get better at each one of those jobs. So I can learn to be technical. My technical compatibility was so little.

Like I'm literally calling the guy on the phone. How do I use this camera? You know, that's how little I knew about it, but I knew by doing the job I would learn by being both. That's really the key. So Jim Cameron is like that. Jim Cameron, when you think of those guys, George Lucas, very technical and very creative.

John Lasseter, very technical, but very creative Pixar. Jim Cameron, very technical, very creative. Putting those two things together is really what sets you apart from other technicians and other creative people. And it's very, very powerful. And a lot of creative people, again, it's against their nature to be technical.

They don't want to do it, make yourself do it, read the manuals, take the lessons. It frees you up because then you can go do like, you know, I just showed you in that demo. You're able to now be a technical person and creative, and then you're unstoppable. He's one of the best at it.

And he just knows how to craft a story. He's very analytical as well. Like we, we bounce off each other in a funny way. He goes, man, he came down to visit my studio before he did Alita. And he went, you only surround yourself with people for like you, like you exude creativity, you know, from every pore.

And so does everyone at your studio. And I go, yeah, and everything, I didn't hire them that way on purpose, but I think if you're not that way, you kind of know, you don't belong there and you kind of leave. And then I went to his studio and there are a bunch of Jim Camerons there.

They're like, oh my God, they're all very technical. You can't get all kind of fuzzy with the, with the logic or the, you can't get, you can't get really creative with a physics or anything. They're like, no, that's not how it would work. It would be like, and they're just, wow, super great at what they do.

Bar is sky high. And they're all like that. Cause yeah, if you're not part of it, if you're not like that, you can't hang with those guys. You can't hang with him very long. I heard a story where the guitar case being a rocket launcher, where to you, you create this real world where everything is possible.

The magic feels real. And for James Cameron, he has to know how a guitar case would work. That would actually be able to double as a rocket launcher. When I show him the trailer for greenhouse and he sees the machine gun leg and all that, he just goes, whoa, that's unbridled filmmaking from the id.

It makes sense only the second you're watching it, not a second after, but the second you're watching and you believe it. But he's a, he's really interesting in that he's so prolific. I walked into his writing studio and it'd be like on one of the tables. Like, do you have those papers there?

Imagine them that thick, that thick, that thick, all scripts, scripts, scripts. What are these? He goes, this is a whole, you know, space opera version of this movie. We're not making that one. It's like, he's just cranking out all this stuff. Like again, can I take this and go make this, please?

Yeah. We bounced off each other because I loved his, his analytical part of his brain. I'm not that analytical. I'm just kind of like, Hey, I'm really creative feeling. I'm like, like, woo, I'll go this way. And then we will go that way. And he likes that about me.

But I like, I, I, I want to be, I think about things too much. Like you think about things like what makes a movie a billion dollar hit? What are the elements that you need? And I'm going to analyze that. And I'm going to make sure my movie does that.

And he engineers a submarine that can break the world record. He engineers a movie that can break the world record. You know, he's like, he has that engineering mind, but the creative part, that's very rare. So that's very rare. And he's capitalized on both. He had this submarine model, like this big on his desk, the one that he broke the world record for going and just seeing it and knowing him have kids and stuff and wife.

And I'm like, weren't you afraid going down there with, you know, something could happen. It's like, no, I wasn't afraid. Like, why not? Because I designed the escape vehicle. Yeah. If it was any other Bozo, I'd be afraid, but he designed the escape, that kind of confidence. That's him.

He just knows if some other Bozo had designed the escape vehicle, I would be afraid, but total confidence because he did it. The confidence of extreme competence is brilliant. Just to get you like excited about how creative this stuff is. So Desperado was the only movie on the Sony lot being edited digitally.

Not only was I editing on a computer, I was editing in my house, which in 1994 was just unheard of. So I'm there in my house and they made me cut in LA because they were, because at first I told the studio, I want to edit Desperado myself because it's important that I edit it.

And they go, no, you can't. Why not? We've never had a director edit his own movie here. So we don't want to set a precedent. Okay. So I thought it would give you too much power. This is the power of precedent. I said, well, you bought mariachi and I edited that.

So I said, okay, but you're going to have to edit in LA so we can watch because we don't think you know what you're doing. We saw the footage and the shots are really short. It's too short. I was like, shots are too short. Oh, cause I was shooting my cuts.

You know, like they're used to seeing footage of Antonio walks into the bar and it's going to be a dialogue scene. They expect the whole thing done from a wide shot. I would shoot the wide shot. He walks in, cut, move the camera. Let's get over here. Cause we went into, cause I'm not going to use it for the rest of the scene.

I know we're going to get into coverage because I've already cut it. So I was like, huh, that's interesting. So I cut the first scene. Have you ever seen Desperado? The first scene is the best scene. Steve Buscemi is telling the story. He's talking about the myth of the mariachi.

He's doing all this crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. So then they come over. I say, you come see my first scene. So they come over to my house. They watch it. Okay. You know what you're doing. But I was cutting Desperado in my house that I rented there. And then we shot Dusk Till Dawn at the same time.

So I was cutting Desperado four rooms and Dusk Till Dawn myself. I'm the editor. I don't have an editing team other than the ones who import it into the machine. So Del Toro came over. Soderbergh came over. Can I borrow it for Schizophilus? No one had heard of somebody having an Avid in their living room.

Jim comes over and he goes, I hear you have an Avid in your living room. And then I go, yeah, come check it out. I'm just like, I roll out of bed. It's like sounds unremarkable because that's what you do right now. But back in 94, it was unheard of.

I'm cutting three movies at the same time myself. I roll out of bed. I come here. I can cut Desperado. I can cut Dusk Till Dawn. He went, that's it. I hate working with editors. You know, when I was doing Terminator 2, they wouldn't even let me put the bad to the bone song in Terminator 2, because they didn't think it would work.

And I had to sneak into the edit room at night on the weekend to cut it in and then show them the next day. It's like, that's your own movie. You can't give that kind of power to people. He said, I hate working with editors. I'm going to do this.

I'm going to tear down a wall in my house. I'm going to put it in Avid. I'm going to cut my next movie. And he did. He got an Oscar for editing Titanic. He had two other editors, but now no one ever took him for a ride like that again.

He edits on every movie. He has other editors, but he can go do his own cuts. When he shows me like footage, he's showing me himself on his own machine. And it's like, again, it gives you all those tools to be able to really find your vision that you're looking for, because you can't always explain it to somebody because you don't always know yourself.

It's part of, you kind of come up with it as you do the process. Just a small tangent about the different software and the technologies involved. So you mentioned Avid as Premiere Pro. Premiere was still in its early stages then. I think Soderbergh looked at it and he said, yeah, I can't afford an Avid for this movie.

I'm going to go do it. I think he started cutting on Premiere, but I'm sure it's all better now. I just have always used an Avid because I just always ran it back to the same production. I think I've just, I don't have to buy a new one, but there's lots of good, I've heard about all kinds of systems.

I just use the same one. I guess that's the question I have for you. It's just interesting for people. It's very interesting to me, just the details. Use Avid. What do you like? Multiple monitors, one monitor. I have a couple of monitors and then one big monitor to watch it if I'm watching the scene back because the monitors are still a little wacky.

I mean, if I were to design my own system, I'd probably design it differently, but I'm literally, I've worked on that thing since 94. I still don't know all the shortcuts and all that shit. I still use it like my tape deck, play, rewind, pause, and I can cut so fast with that.

I don't use the mouse for shortcuts. I'm just like, like, so you found your way, preferred way, the workflow of using it. And now you can sort of let go of the technical and then be creative. Yeah. Just be creative. It's just a tool. It's just a tool. And it's like, it doesn't matter which system it is.

It's like, if you can get it to work for you, great. Like, there's a lot of problems I have with it that I would, I know are probably fixed on another system, but that they'll have a whole other set of problems. So it's like, well, why bother with that?

You know, there's limitations. I think that it has that would need to be fixed, but not for what I'm doing. I mean, I can still do what I need. It feels like part of the artistry is every system has limitations and you learn how to work around those limitations.

I mean, my first VCRs, like those things, those things were, I was always known for taking what little basic equipment and milking the shit out of it, what it could, pushing the boundaries of what it can do. And now it's flipped. Now you're working on a program and you can spend 10 years on this thing and you're scratching the surface of what it's capable of.

It's totally flipped the other way. I'm not milking anything anymore. I'm, I'm barely getting, you know, the smallest capability of it. Cause I would have to spend a lot of time to figure out all the stuff that it can possibly do. And I'm sure it's, it's all great, fantastic stuff, but what a different world than when I grew up where it was like, okay, let me splice these two sound things together.

And it was so hard to get it to do, but people would be like, you got that movie out of that equipment where now it's the other way around. You know, it's like, all this equipment is great. So when people come to me and say, I've got, well, I've only got this camera.

I was like, the camera's 10 times better than anything I had for my first 15 years of filmmaking. So you have no complaints. This is like, you can just start now and just start making stuff. Uh, I have a lot of friends who are huge fans of your, uh, movies.

So one of them asked me that I'm absolutely must ask you, do you know if there's a sequel of Alita coming? Oh, we're working on it. We're definitely working on it. Jim and I both want to make it, but it's usually when we meet, we talk about it. Um, I gave him something to read, you know, he's a little busy with his avatar movie, but I'm going to get, I'm going to see him again soon and we'll see where it's at, but we would love to make another one.

We have ideas on how to do it. Cause it was always built to be a trilogy. And, uh, he sees that there's a lot of love for it. It was just weird. Cause it was Fox movie and they got bought by Disney, you know, and then, so they weren't really making Fox movies because they had enough, had enough work with their Disney movies, but now they started to make some Fox movies.

Like they did Deadpool and some Fox movies are starting to get made. So time might be right for us to come back and do an Alita. No, I hope you do soon. It's a, but it is, I mean, you do so many different kinds of movies. That's a whole different kind of puzzle, right?

Yeah. No, but it's not a bad one. It's a good one. It's a cool. It's one of the few, like usually I made kids, family kids, kids movies or R rated action horror movies. And that was the first time I got to do a PG 13 movie, which was kind of like, it had a lot of action, but it was for families could watch it too.

And it's kind of like the best of all worlds. Have to ask you about Sin City. One of my favorite films of all time. It was a visually stunning world. What are some maybe interesting detailed aspects about you creating that world? This is why you just got to follow your nose and go do something, you know, Jim and I were both into 3d early on.

Like I visited his set for the Terminator 3d ride. Just till dawn, I wanted to be 3d. Actually, when they got to the bar, if you watched from that point on and everything's kind of set up for three, everything was shooting into the camera and all this, but the cameras they had for 3d and film was those old shitty ones that were so bad that I went, okay, we can't do it.

But I really wanted people to have to put on glasses when they got into the bar and it was going to turn into a 3d different movie. I got to do that on spike. It's 3d. So when I did spike, it's 3d. I thought, oh, if I get Jim's cameras that he's done for these underwater 3d, you know, documentaries, I can make the first digital 3d film for theaters.

And so I did. And it seemed like the easiest way was to utilize that when you put on the glasses, when you go into a game world. So there's a green screen and we shot all the actors on green screen for all the game stuff. And we can do a lot of 3d stuff coming at kids faces when they're reaching my 3d is, is not like the kind they have in theaters where it's very polite.

Mine's like theme park 3d where kids are doing like that, trying to grab. That's why it was such a big hit. Nobody does 3d like that, but I wanted that. I want shit falling in people's laps, you know? So you remember, so you would go, okay, this is why I'm wearing the glasses and I'm wondering why.

And when I went to go make my next movie, so this is how crazy is what we shot. Spike is three. Remember actually how fast they came out. That was in the summer of 2003. few months later, once upon a time, Mexico came out to number one movies. Both were finishing trilogies of mine.

And each one starred Antonio, Danny Trejo, Cheech Marin. When I was editing those at the same time, you'd be like, whoa, they're killing people. The other ones are like with the kids going like, Hey family. So it was really, you know, fun. It was fun to, it's easier to do very different things than to do like two action movies or two family movies at the same time.

But I was like, okay, what's my next movie going to be? Oh shit. How crazy is this? Okay. So Antonio is on the set. I'm going to shoot him out in half a day for Spike is 3d. Cause he's only in the last scenes on the green screen, shoot him to lunch.

Okay. Now go away, put on your desperado outfit. Cause we owed some shots for once upon a time, Mexico on the green screen. He finished two trilogies in the same day. That's gotta be a first. If ever, no one's ever finished two trilogies in the same day. And it's just kismet, you know, it's just how it happened to happen that day was just luck or the universe or whatever, but I needed to get something new now.

So I was looking through my bookshelves of inspiration and I picked up my sin city books, which I've had. I used to be a cartoonist and I always loved how he drew that. Every time I'd see a different edition, I'd buy it, go home and go, Oh, I already have this.

I got like three copies of this already. And it would just always grab me by the throat. And I liked that he was a writer director in a way, cause he would not just wrote the comic, but he drew it too. A lot of times it's a different writer or different comic artists.

He's like a real, like a kinship, you know, this is someone who writes and directs his own thing. But I was looking at it and I went, Oh shit, I know how to do this now. I just did it on the green screen. If I shoot this on green screen, the actors on green screen, I can make the backgrounds look just like this.

And I can contrast up the actors and I could get this very graphic look, which sometimes for a window, it's just a white box. So it's even got a sliding scale for budget. If I run out of money, just put the actors in black and white, just put like a white dot behind him for a streetlight.

And that looks just like the book. So I'm going to bring the book to life. So I'll show you how fast we go from development at troublemaker. It was October. Once upon a time, Mexico would come out. I was like, Oh shit, I know how to do this now since city.

I'm going to do a test. I went to my green screen here in my studio. You'll see my green screen where I shot all these movies and I shot, you know, uh, my sister, myself, put it black and white. Looks just like the comic, but it's moving. So I, I call a, uh, comic book artist friend of mine, Mike Allred.

And I said, uh, do you have Frank Miller's number? And he goes, yeah, I do. Okay. I'm going to call him up. So I called Frank Miller. Hey, it's Robert Rodriguez. I have a test. I'm going to show you for Sin City. I'm going to be in New York tomorrow.

He's like tomorrow. Okay. Yeah, sure. Come by. Meet me at this bar. Okay. Book a flight for New York. I fly up there. I have my laptop just like this. I go to the bar, I show him what looks like an image from his comic and it starts moving.

And he's like, wow, how did you do that? I said, I got my own studio and all this. And then I started telling him, man, let's make this movie. Cause no one had the rights to it. He never gave the rights to a studio. A lot of comics. Oh, one of your brothers bought this a while back, you know, or then you got to go through the studio.

He still owned his own rights. In fact, he'd gotten burned by Hollywood so many times as a screenwriter that he said, fuck it. I'm going to go back and draw a comic. That's so raw that can never be made into a movie. So of course I call him, Hey, let's make a great movie.

I show him how we can do it. And I go, I know you don't know me and you're not going to, you're going to have to earn, I have to earn your trust for you to give me your baby. Uh, but we can make this right away. And he's like, uh, he's all excited for about two seconds.

And then he goes, Oh no, then we got to write a script. And then the studio is going to have notes. All that shit he's been through before. And it's not like that. I have a whole different setup. I got my own studio in Austin. This is how it's going to be.

If you like this idea, I'm going to, you're not going to have to take any risk. Let me take all the risk. I'm going to go write the script myself next month. It's going to be unremarkable because I'm going to write it right out of your book. I'm going to just go to, I'm going to edit three of the stories down.

I'm going to just take stuff out. Really. It might add a few things to connect it, but I'll write the script in December myself. No money involved. Then we'll call some actor friends of mine. We'll have them come to my green screen. We'll shoot the opening scene as a test, but it's also the opening scene.

I'll do the effects myself. I'll do the sound, do the music. I'll do fake credits. We'll watch it together. If you like what you see, we'll make the movie. You give me the rights. Then if you don't like it, keep it. It's a short film to show your friends.

Let's be really cool. He's like, all right. There's nothing on him to do. It's all in me. I write the script in December, January, Josh Arnett, Marlee Shelton, come down, fly Frank in shooting for 10 hours on my green screen. We shoot that opening sequence. Incredible opening sequence. Record his voiceover right then in my little voiceover booth.

Marlee Shelton comes up. Why did I hire him to kill me? I don't know. Let's go ask Frank. He's right here. Let's go ask Frank. I want to know myself. He tells her and he's like, I want to do this movie. He's already, as I tell you, Frank, I used to be cartoonist.

It's the same thing. You're already a director. You're just using a pen instead of a camera. The performances you get out of your paper actors are phenomenal. The shots you do are like beyond any DP has ever done. And the visual look, we've never seen that. I want to just take this and make it move.

I just want the comic to move. Any other studio would just go make it look like any gritty crime movie and they would, they would miss the point that it's the visual is half of it. I want it to look just like this because it would be the boldest movie anyone's seen.

Cause that's how it reads. When I read the book, it's like, if this was moving, it would be the most phenomenal movie. In fact, I asked him, do you ever feel like directing any, any of these short ones? I thought about directing the big fat kill, maybe as a short films.

You should come direct that one. Shit. You should direct all of them with me. Cause I'm really copying it right out of a book. You should direct it with me. All right, let's go. So then, uh, January. Okay. So remember I met him in November. I wrote it in December, January.

We shoot the test. Took me a couple of weeks to do the effects. He loves it. I make a meeting with Bruce Willis, show it to Bruce Willis. What's so cool about doing that opening scene is that any actor I show it to now, I show him the book, which is awesome.

You'd be playing this character, but look at this test. Let me show you the book. What it looked like before I turned this test into a test watches it. Josh Arnett voiceover music titles. Come on. First name on the screen, Bruce Willis. And I go, Hey, look, you're in the credits.

You have to do it now. Manifesting it. Right. He's like, shit, man, this is great. I'm in. He's in, go get everyone else from that. It was just easy to get. And we were filming the movie. So February, right. Building the few little sets we had, like the bar.

I told Frank, we don't need to build a bar, but I'm going to go ahead and build a bar. So we have a place to go have script meetings. Everything else will be green screen. We'll build fake steps and things out of green. So we're doing that. And I'm casting the first one.

We're shooting the movie by March, beginning of March. And I remember because my son was born March 3rd. And I was in LA for his birth because I was also recording the orchestra for the score I wrote somehow in the past few months for Kill Bill 2. That's how much stuff was going on.

That's like when you just let it flow, you're just riding the wave. You're not doing any of that. So that's what's by staying in that like urgent, there's always the deadlines are just pushing you to create stuff. And we shot the movie so fast in record time. Now, not only that, I shot a whole other movie that year.

I shot The Adventures of Sharkboy and Lava Girl with kids that came out two months after Sin City the next year, within less than a year, Sin City was out. You're shooting that in parallel with Sin City. That's hilarious. Is that great? Yeah. Like sometimes we'd be shooting with the kids and then the afternoon Rudger Howard would come and some of the Sin City girls to finish, you know, shooting stuff that we needed to film.

It was just insane how fast we had to move. I was doing it in my head. I was editing. I just edited it. And then I would scan the artwork into the computer and I would edit the storyboards with the sound effects and I would do the voiceover. I would imitate Mickey and I would imitate Bruce and lay out how fast it was going to move.

And you were like, wow. So now we have a template with the real drawings and the lighting on how we're going to do it. It was funny because I could do pretty good in Bruce Willis because I know in his career so long, if you're doing his voiceover and he would hear my guide voice for the timing, he'd be like, is that me or is that you?

Can't tell. It's like, oh, that one was me, but just do that. It's like, oh man, it sounds like me. First of all, why haven't films like that been made? Well, it's a very specific look because it went into that comic. The first piece of music I wrote for that was the main title and I called it descent.

I wanted the notes to descend because it felt like you were descending into this dark world and you don't come out to the end of the movie. You're just like in this world where all these layers of unreality, like water doesn't photograph that way, snow doesn't photograph, but it's there and you're seeing and you're seeing the actors.

So you're just really, it's like a dream world. Yeah. So I was really into it and I did tests for the most difficult shots first. Like, how do I get his tape to glow in the dark, like in the comics, so it's still in the shadow. And I realized, oh, use fluorescent tape and a fluorescent light.

That way I can keep it. We can still key it. Like I started just doing my own visual effects like that early on because I knew technology was changing so fast that I would need to just know how to do it. Like I'm like a magician shooting digital. Nobody wanted to touch digital back then.

DPs were all afraid of digital. They didn't want to have to learn something new. So I had to DP it. So be photographing it. I'm like, it's so fun to cut because I mean, to, to light, like you have to have that light out of frame right now, but I could bring the lights in right here.

As long as it was, they're not crossing it. I'm just going to take it out of the green anyway. So I could have the coolest light on everybody, cool edge lights. You can have an edge light back here, an edge light back here, a fill light here, but you don't erase them.

I just take him out. Can you educate me and people curious about this? Oh, like what is the power of light when you're telling a story, when you're creating a feeling and experience, like what's the artistry of that? Well, if you look at the drawings too, sometimes it's the absence of light.

Like you would see this face, but then this would be completely black, but you would still see my eye, which is like impossible. Right. But you believe it when you see it. Cause it's there. So things like that were a lot of the tricks I tried first. Cause I liked that about it.

It's like, you have a guy completely backlit. So there's no light on his face, but yet his glasses are glowing white. So we'd put fluorescent tape in there, hit that with a light. Then we could turn it white later. The black and white really helps. And then just upping the contrast.

But I mean, it's just something that you have a feeling for, but you're able to try it. In fact, when I took it to George Lucas who George Lucas said this to me early on, cause I was, we're the only guy shooting digital. He said, man, it's so good.

You live in Austin. That's why I'm in Marin County. Cause when you live outside of this box of LA, Hollywood, you think outside of the box automatically, you're just going to stumble upon innovations. And he was right. It was like, well, yeah, what's this? Why, why aren't we shooting digital?

Let's shoot digital. Why are we shooting digital 3d? Let's do that. Why don't we just use green screen for the background? You just start innovating because you're away from anyone saying, Hey, you can't do it that way, which they would say if I was in LA. So we just came up with a whole other method.

So I took him since city to check out the first thing I was going to show at Comic-Con. He said, um, now this will really show people what digital is capable of. This really shows how avant-garde you can get with that. that you can never have done that on film, you know?

And so by me versing myself in that technology early, I was able to make a movie like that. And then everyone had to play catch up, you know? So you should always just follow your, that's why people say, don't use those curtains as I'm going to work. Just blow past those guys, go innovate your own thing.

Cause sometimes not knowing is better, you know, being too naive to like, don't you know, you shouldn't have been able to make that movie that way. People would, people would say like, how did you make my marriage for $7,000? Just, you know, it's impossible. It's like, why do you keep using that word?

Cause it can't be impossible if I did it. Cause I'm not that smart. And it's like saying, how did you get to the top of Mount Everest? It's impossible. Well, I just kept walking. I didn't realize it was kind of at a slope. I didn't really realize it was going up that high.

Yeah. You you've talked about like a big part of your approach to filmmaking to life is manifesting, manifesting the reality you want. In fact, I should sort of comment and I'd love to ask you about manifesting. You asked me at the beginning of this conversation, do you consider yourself a creative person?

I should sort of reflect on that because I was very uncomfortable answering that. Yeah. I noticed a little bit and I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to free you up so that you're never uncomfortable again. It's scary just to say that about, about yourself. Cause you think there's a lot of, there's a lot of people who go, well, you're not an artist, you're not a creative, but you're not saying I'm an artist.

I'm saying I'm a creative person, but that's an artist too, isn't it? No, artist isn't necessarily a guy with a French mustache and the funny ad. That's not necessarily what an artist, artists are regular people. Yeah. And regular people relate to art that's imperfect. If you can make art that's perfect, don't want to relate to it.

So when you think about it like that, you go, well, I can make imperfect art. So yeah, I'm an artist. And if you have doubt, you're an artist. That's an artist. Real artists always wonder if they're good enough. So you are an artist. Just by the fact that you had uncomfortable saying it, you're a real artist.

Yeah. And there's some degree, I don't know if you could speak to this, but, um, you know, there's a fear of creating shitty things. You know, I've, I've created a lot of really shitty things in my life and it always feels like that's really important to do. Okay. But you're judging something that, that you have no business judging, right?

Like I have so many people. That's why I like making movies on purpose that have less money and less time on purpose. Like the biggest movie I said at all time on Netflix is we can be heroes. I told them, I don't want to spend more than $50 million.

I know you all want to give me 80, but I want to be a hero and come into 50 because one, it'll make it better. And then two, you'll, you'll make three of them instead of just one. I don't want to just go spend the farm. And how many filmmakers will do that?

Don't try to get as much money as they can, but when you're spending less, it's a win-win situation and you have more creative freedom. It's going to leave you alone. You can do whatever you want. So I, I like the creative limitations that come from less money. That's why I like brass knuckle films.

Like we're going to make them for less so that they are better, not because they're not to make them shitty. So many people have come up to me and said, um, you know what part I love in your movie? They'll tell me some scene. And I'm like, oh, well that's because we ran out of sun and we had to like do that jump with just him jumping on a pad three times or whatever it is.

It's something that you fumbled together. And that's what they're drawn to. They're drawn to that imperfect thing. And so I wouldn't judge it because somebody's, you know, if you called your movie shitty, that's like John Carpenter saying, yeah, nobody liked the thing and it's a shitty movie and everyone hated it.

So it must not be good. And then 10 years later, it's a masterpiece. Don't judge it. Cause if you, words we use on ourselves are very powerful. So if you say, well, you know, I'm kind of an artist sometimes I make a lot of shitty stuff. Well, that's going to, that's going to be your lot in life.

You know, I I'm pretty good shape for a director. It's not because I'm operating the camera because I work out. Right. But I always hated working out. I was not into sports. I was a filmmaker. I was a cartoonist in high school. I was really tall. They would say, come work, come be in our team.

We need, it's a small school. We need you. And I'm like, I don't know how to play any of these things. I'm an artist. There's a line in the faculty. That's was my line to my coaches. When they would say, you got to come run with everybody. I would say, I don't think a person should run unless he's being chased.

I get that to the Elijah Wood character, because that's the guy I identified with. He's there with this camera and that was me. So I hated it. And then because I had, I was a cartoonist, you know, drawing like this for hours, four hours, my back would go out like out for a month.

It would just go out from being so so tall and crunched over. And then when I started making movies, operating the camera, doing steady cam, every year would go out to where I would need cortisone shots to get up again if I'm filming or just be out for a month.

And on Spy Kids 2, Ricardo Montalban had bad back surgery that went wrong and he was in a wheelchair. So he's in a wheelchair and I'm in a walker. And he's like, I'm 84. What's your excuse? And I was like, I don't know. I just was operating steady. He goes, you have to work out, Robert.

You have to work out. And I was like, yeah, okay. Yeah, I know. I know. And so then I thought, okay, next year I'm working with Stallone. I'll ask Stallone, that's Stallone. How do you get in shape? Because I need to get in shape. My back's always going out.

He goes, get the trainer. Anyone who ever saw in Hollywood got in shape, they had a trainer. I say, even you, anybody, oh, I need a trainer. He has a trainer. I said, oh, no, I need a trainer. I can't train. It's like, well, shit, if you can't even train on your own, then what do us mortal men have?

So I got a trainer and guess what happened? Hated it. I would feel sick when he's coming over because I hate working it. And then some years of doing that, I just, I can't stand it. But I know it's good for my health. So the desire's there. So if you can't accomplish something in your life, it's not a lack of desire.

Like if you want to be more creative, it's not a lack of desire. It's a lack of identity. Like you're like the fact that you went, you were comfortable about saying creative. It's because there's a lack of identity there. You have lots of desire. You got to get the identity up and then suddenly you're, you're making, you're making shit.

So I, a friend of mine from Mexico, she comes over, I have to stop smoking. My doctor said I have to stop smoking for my health. So I have to, so I'm not smoking right now. So I've been smoking since I was eight years old. He said, well, you're going to go back to smoking.

Cause you just told me your identity is a smoker. So right now you're a smoker. Who's not smoking. What's going to happen? Eventually you have to say, I'm a non-smoker. You know, like just that, that lesson I had forgotten. You have to say, I'm a non-smoker. I'm a non-smoker.

It's what does a non-smoker do? If you believe you're a non-smoker, you hate smoke, start choking at the smell of smoke. Okay. I'll try that. She walks off. I go, shit. I forgot about my own. I wonder where in my life I could apply that. Working out. Of course, my God, I hate working out.

No wonder I am so miserable. I'll tell my trainer and anyone who will listen, I can't stand working out. I don't understand sports. So that day I said, I'm an athlete. I'm an athlete. That's the last thing I would ever call myself all through my entire life. This was 2012.

I'm an athlete. By the next day, not only did my life completely change and it's easier if it's opposite day. Like if you're just doing it by degrees, that's bullshit. You got to go complete opposite. Cause if there's like a donut, you know, if you say, well, I'm going to only half of it, you got to go, no, I'm going to get an apple.

Opposite is much easier. Not only did I change my life working out, I didn't ever needed a trainer. I have not had a trainer since all those years. Cause I'm an athlete. I'll just do it. What does an athlete do? An athlete loves working out. An athlete will make time to work out and they'll eat right.

I was, I would never be the person that would call themselves an athlete, but that's how much it can change your life by changing your identity. So if you want to be more creative, you've, you've already got that in your, that desire. You've got enough of that. You don't need more desire.

You need more identity. So you got to say, I'm a creative person with a straight face. So when I say, Hey, are you going to be a, are you a creative person? You go, yeah. Cause then if you say that, what do you do? You're going to do more creative stuff.

Cause that's what a creative person does. It doesn't make sense to me how manifesting works, but it does seem to work like basically visualizing, visualizing a path towards a certain kind of future. I guess everything around you, everything within you kind of makes way for that makes way for the possibility of that.

It's weird. It's weird, but it kind of, it's a kind of a nice to know that you can do that, but you have to just have that conviction and just say, start with a label. Yeah. The double R or the label you just gave yourself. Like I changed my label.

My label was, I hate working out. I'm an athlete. I'm an athlete. I'm not a non-athlete anymore. I'm changing my label and you get so inspired because now you know what to do because you can't help but conform to your identity. You're always going to conform to your identity.

So just change your identity and you'll change your life. But, and it's not that hard. I didn't have to go get hypnotized or anything. It was literally, I just told myself, if I could do that, go from a guy who doesn't want to work out. Hates it. Hates it.

I had the desire. I was already hiring the guy. I lacked the identity. As soon as I changed my identity, boom. Well, one of the things for me like that is probably music, just playing guitar. Are you a musician? Yeah, I'm a musician. I would definitely not. I mean, I'm, I'm going along with it now, but if we're honestly, if we're just- You wouldn't have said that.

I wouldn't have said that. But I heard you rip on fucking guitar. And I've heard you play kind of amazing in all different kinds of contexts. Oh, but I, I should be like, freaking Santana by now because I've had a guitar in my hand since I was a kid.

But since I'm not a full-time musician, I don't get to play it that often. So I'm not as good as I should be. But, you know, when you apply yourself to just rehearse for, you know, a couple of shows, you book some shows. Look at this. This is me just like playing our first arena show opening for George Lopez.

That was crazy to be on the stages where you're heroes that you saw them. Now you're seeing what their point of view was. It blows your mind. You need to just get on stage. You get on stage once and you'll see that it's not as bad as you think.

You're not, you're not like terrified because you're playing pretty complicated things. I've seen you play live. Yeah. And I messed up a bunch of times, but you don't want to focus on that. And you just go like, okay, I got it through it. Cause when you're up there, it's not that you're like screaming nervous, but your hands will just won't work anymore.

Something will happen, but that happens to everybody. If you really watch even the best in their live performances, watch really close and you see, they screw up a couple of things, but you just want to notice they just go right through it. It's like, it's about the live performance and that's why you know it's real.

So I think if you can really just lean into it more, change, really work on the identity part, cause you've got the desire, you want to play guitar. But as soon as you say, yeah, but I can't play live. You just chopped off your leg at the start of the race.

If you say, I, I don't know, you just chopped off your, you're doing this to yourself. You're literally doing this to yourself. I mean, just you, I mean, anybody who, who pauses, who hesitates, you don't have to have doubts. Why would you have a doubt? Cause you know, the process now it's like, if I don't know how to do something, I know how to figure it out.

Like, I didn't know how I was going to do that scene with him jumping and flipping. I didn't know that, but do I have doubt that I'm going to go in there and be able to do it? If you, if you say that you do you, now you're a doubtful person.

That's how powerful that is. But if you say, no, I don't have any doubt because I know I'm going to figure it out when I get there. somehow it'll fall in my lap. I trust the process. You don't have to, you don't have to know. So if you trust the process that you'll figure it out.

But here's the thing, like sometimes you fail and there's audience. Yeah. Then you get four rooms. Yeah. Yeah. And then what happens? And then what happens? Right. Don't blink. Don't blink. And then you go sift through the failure. Yeah, exactly. You go, wait a minute. What did I get out of that?

Yeah. I've done that a bunch. It's great. Look, what's the worst that can happen? You go on a stage and you bomb. It's not going to be the first stage. And it's one of those you can talk about so that when you do the next one and it all, sometimes they all go right.

I've had a couple of shows. We did, we did a couple of shows where we had video cameras set up for the second day. Let's say, let's not film the first day because we're going to be fucking just finding our feet. Let's film the second day. First day was fucking flawless.

Flawless because no cameras. It's like you just go. Second day, we weren't as into it as we had just done it. It felt like the second take, you know, it just didn't have the magic. And that's the one that's recorded. And we're like, oh, kicking ourselves. We didn't film both nights.

We should have filmed both nights. I love how much of a mess this human existence life is. Yeah. You've talked about the importance of journaling because living is reliving. I love that phrase. I came up with that. Cause it's like, wow, I see so many people who get after you for like filming a concert and they go live in the moment.

I'm like, dude, counterintuitive. The moment goes by like this. Yeah. We're not going to remember any of this. The fact that we taped it, thank God, because later on it's going to be a file photo of me remembering you three pound me computer. All I'm going to have is a file photo.

You may be in a suit and you picturing me and maybe a black t-shirt and the metadata narrative is going to say, had a great talk about if we remember creativity, you know, like their brain doesn't remember. But when I pull up old home movies, I can show my kids that I just found and they're like, they don't remember it.

I don't remember filming it. And it's like new adventures of it becomes iconic and it sticks in our head. And all our jokes are based on old things that we used to do and say. So reliving, living is reliving. So keeping a journal is very important because I found that anything that passed 15 years on, it's like I'm reading someone else's journal.

I'm like, I didn't even know that's where I got that guitar. I thought I bought that guitar. It was given to me. It's like a $10,000 Santana. It was given to me my birthday by the studio that I made that movie. How did I not remember that? It's like crazy what you don't remember.

And it's, the brain is very, it's not a, it's not a very reliable computer. It's, it's made out of frigging butter. That's a really profound idea that so much of our life is lived through replaying our memories. And then watching stuff is a, one of the ways to sort of refresh, give some more, you know, texture and details.

Makes it iconic. It makes it iconic in your life and part of your life. Otherwise it just went by, it went by. Like I'll ask people like, we just had a really, what did we do last week? What did we do last Wednesday? And they're like, I can tell you because I wrote it down, but I'm going to remember.

And then when you see, when you go through your journal, like I go back and I find, wow, life-changing thing happened Friday, another life-changing thing. I didn't know at the time until now. I know that that really set me on him happened Saturday and another big freaking thing happened on Sunday.

Like they come in threes. Sometimes you start being able to predict the future a little bit. Cause you, you see the patterns and it's pretty wild to do that. And I've, I've talked to people, big group of people, 500 people. How many people here journal? Two hands, three hands.

I couldn't believe it. It's like, man, you guys, if there's anything I'm going to part on you is journal, your life is way more interesting than you think, because it's not going to feel like anything while it's going by. But in retrospect, you look back, like I can just go through, I keep a journal one file per year.

So I started a new one in 2025. If I'm going to look up, like I'm going to do a director's chair episode. I look up Michael Mann, Michael Mann, Michael Mann, all the conversations we had since 94 that I wrote down that I felt. And it's like, oh my God, I can't believe we said that.

That's how I knew about that thing with Quentin. I had forgotten about that story with Quentin saying, ah, Pulp Fiction. I had forgotten that because from the moment I asked him that question to the success at Cannes was very quick. So it was a lost moment in time where I had it recorded down to the time, down to the hour.

When I asked him that question, he thought it wasn't, he didn't think that was the one for him. Yeah. And there's a, I don't know when it, when it's private journaling, there's an honesty, there's an innocence that about like the dreams you have about the future, the conceptions you have about the future.

I mean, that's what this thing is journal is a journal. It's just a journal. It's like, but the profundity like comes out of it. It's crazy. Yeah. You didn't. And so much I figured out then I was, I'm talking like a professor by the end of that. Like people come up to me and they're asking me all these questions about stuff I wrote in there.

And I'm like, I wrote that in that book. Shit. I was smart back then. What happened? I don't remember half of that, but I think that it's the same thing. When you go to teach someone, your mouth opens and stuff comes out. I'm always taping myself. Like when I go to give a talk, cause that's also the pipe working.

Someone else is talking to you sometimes. So the act of sharing, that's why I've always liked to share information. Cause the feedback loop is insane. Like me inspiring Daisy DJ to go, right. He writes the script in three days, comes back, tells me now I'm doing that method. And it's like, wow.

People come back with their version. And I love telling my kids stuff that I learned that I wish I could tell myself, but I can't take a time machine. Closest thing is telling your kid. Cause then they can take that information and process. So many times they've come back and said, wow, dad, that lesson you taught us about this is really, it's really become big in our minds.

Yeah. What was that? And they tell me, I'm like, I never told you that. They said, yeah, you told us, well, I told you maybe 10% of that. All the rest you added. Oh yeah. Well, we embellished it over. Like they turned it into something else. And it's like, wow, that's so cool.

But yeah, that thing about reliving, like that was a, but one of my favorite was just, yeah, my mom turning 75 and not wanting to do anything for her 75th birthday. I said, why not? She goes, the whole family's going to, you have 10 kids. They're all going to want to do something for your 75th birthday.

Nothing can top my 65th. I was like, what are we doing on your 65th? I didn't even remember even. I'm the one who orchestrated it all. She goes, oh, you flew everyone in from all over the country. You gave me a car. I gotta have a journal of that.

So I'm sure I have video. I go back 10 years. I see what tape I had it on, find the tape, pop the tape in, forgot about all this stuff. So I cut together a 10 minute version of it, showed it at her 75th birthday. Just watching the old one, everybody was like, oh my God, look how young everybody was.

Like how small the nieces and nephews were. She starts bawling as soon as she gets the key, the gift of the key in the video, because she realizes now what it's going to mean that she's going to get this car. And so it's like, wow, let's just play the old tapes.

We don't even have to do anything anymore. We banked so much amazing stuff that we've all forgotten, that my kids just love watching their old home movies. They hardly remember any of it, but even a VHS to them is virtual reality because compared to our memories, it is virtual reality.

They're like leaning into the screen to see what's around the corner and they're remembering the place and the sounds. And they say, oh, we left the, we left the living room. It's like, we're there. It's like, wow. I was always afraid they would see this old footage and go, ah, that's a dog shit.

What kind of camera was that? This is the limitations of, you know, you put up one of those files on your screen. It's like this big on your laptop. That's how low res shit was back then, but that didn't matter. It's like compared to our memories, that stuff, living is reliving, like pull up that, shoot as much as you can, take as many pictures, but write the journal.

Cause you'll have a picture. You swear, you're not going to know what it's from. Even 10 years from now, you want to know what that picture's from. You read the diary. Oh, that's what that is. Oh my God. You can piece together all these things that are important to you or that become more important with time actually.

And, uh, you know, what's important later compared to what's happening at the time to add on top of that. So journaling is the kind of raw or like home films is a raw projection of what's going on in the moment. I think it's also really powerful because I've done that is to do a high effort description of where your life is for your, just for yourself.

So sometimes journaling is like low effort. Yeah. Sometimes it's just, I just want to mark that, you know, we had this conversation. I had to go do something at five. I did that, met somebody that I know last night I met somebody that's going to be life changing. I'm going to write a little bit more on that.

Cause I could just, now I know, but I'm going to just record it. So later if I look it up. So one of the cool things you could do is, you know, like, uh, for example, somebody, um, uh, Jamie, Mr. Beast does, does these videos, which are great. I think it's a great exercise to do for yourself, which is a video he records, uh, for himself that he doesn't look at to be published 20 years from now.

This is a message to myself 20 years from now. Here's where I hope you end up. You're, you're basically a younger version of yourself speaking to an older version. Yeah. And then you get, you know, time flies and like, you get to a point where it's like, holy shit, it has been 10 years.

It has been 20 years. You get to listen to a younger version of yourself. Like you, it would have been hilarious if you shot videos like that to yourself. Cause it was just like the incredible journey of your career has been on. And just to think about that, like the Delta, the difference between what your dreams were, where you ended up, usually you outdo yourself in many ways.

Sometimes you, your life goes in a totally different trajectory. That's, it's, um, and the result is kind of funny. It's a, it's a, it's a nice, it's a nice illustration of the nonlinearity of life. I would film stuff like that with my kids. I couldn't do it. I would film my kids saying, hey, turn to the camera now and say, hey rebel, it's me rebel rebel in the future.

Yeah. So you have shots like that. Yeah. And then they show them like, cool, like that 10 years later. And they, they're like, whoa, just to see it talking to them and saying, yeah. And, um, I would do this thing where I would film them watching it and then pan off.

So that 10 years later I could get, hey rebel, him reacting, pan off to the new rebel watching it. It's just like keeps going. So I have one like that where it just keeps panning and they're watching themselves within the movie, within the movie, within the movie. It's like an ongoing project.

You know, it's just so fun to just play with memory and make you realize how fast time moves and to go, they go like, I kind of remember that, but I don't remember being that tiny when I had that memory. It's like wild how time moves and it makes them feel much more precious about how quick time moves and how important every little moment is because you see the fragility of it too.

You know, does it make you sad, break your heart that, you know, the number of memories we get to create is finite, that this life ends. Eventually the story is over. I had this theory, I'm going to put this in a movie. I don't think I've ever seen this before, because I was woke up from a dream and it was like, trying to remember it.

You know, you're like, God, it's so, so real. If you don't write it down right away, right? It kind of fades away. But you, while you're dreaming it, it's really real. And it's like, you can almost see the walls. By the time I went to go tell somebody, it's like, "Shit, I forgot most of it." But I wonder if that's what it's like when you wake up in your consciousness after you die.

You wake up in your next consciousness, getting ready to move into whatever your next body is. And you're like, "Wow, I was a filmmaker, had five kids? And, oh, well, I'm going to be a fish now." It's like a dream. It's like that gone that way. And it's like, that's what past lives are.

They're like distant memories, like a dream that's faded away. That's why you barely feel remnants of it. Do I feel sad about it? When I tell people, they flip out when I tell them that. I want a character to be like that. He's dying. He's like, "I don't want to forget this dream.

I don't want to forget. Don't let me wake up. Don't let me wake up." But you forget, especially the moment you try to tell somebody. You tell the next fish over. Yeah, the next fish, there'll be a fish next. But yeah, it feels like I'm a little sad about it, but then it just makes you even more double down to be precious about the life you're in now.

What do you think is the meaning of this whole thing of life? Why are we here? I mean, I really feel like my kids and I were just talking about this last night. We were just blown away. We did this Asterian astrology thing. It was the oldest form of astrology.

It just nails each person. And it's like, yeah, because when you have a kid, you realize right away, this isn't my kid. This is not my, I'm just in charge of him. It's a completely different soul. He's a different soul that ended up in my hands. It's not, there's physical characteristics that get passed on because of just how biology works.

Even sometimes posture and movement is the same, but the actual person is somebody else. And all the kids, I have five kids and I had nine brothers and sisters. They're all different. And you realize we made a pact in the past life to gather together. Cause every time it's like, so good.

You were born in this family because you were given free reign to go find who you're really supposed to be. And you, and you find out everyone's is doing what they were supposed to be doing. But what's cool, almost like this clarity you get by just saying it, they now know that they were always supposed to be like this creative person or that.

And now they can double down on it. Cause they know that's who they were supposed to be. They don't have to have any doubt anymore. They don't have to wonder, well, am I supposed to be more business minded or can I be creative? Isn't that some kind of frivolous?

Is that a real job? Can I do that? Now they realize, no, you're supposed to be doing that for these, these, these reasons. And now they can double down. You can skip all that and just decide, I feel like I want to be that person. So I'm just going to declare I am that person.

And as soon as you say it, you are that. And tomorrow your, your activities will conform to that. That's how powerful that decision is. So when you walk out of here, it's going to be with a complete commitment. I'm a technical and creative person. Like my first boss, I'm unstoppable.

Cause my boss told me that and he was right. I became technical and creative and you're just unstoppable. You can just keep going and just go, I'm unstoppable. That's me. You're going to do, you know, use your powers for bad, but you've just changed your life by just declaring that.

And I'm also a creative person who lives his life creatively. I'm going to find creative ways to use that technology. If somebody says you're not the same kind of artist I was expecting, that's their own opinion. Don't blink, just keep going. You know, all these things that you've learned that people were supposed to tell you along the way, they're telling you for a reason.

Anytime you got pushed, like if you go back to your life at your really critical moments in your life where you went that way, instead of that way, there was probably somebody there who said something to you that kind of pushed you. I, there was a, there was one guy when I was in high school, it was like senior year.

I wrote a paper and I wasn't a great writer at all. I wrote a paper for a Latin American studies class, gave it to the teacher. And, uh, he said, wow, you, you're going to be rich and famous in four years. It's based on what I read. He was like, really flight home like 17 or 18, four years later, I've done mariachi.

And I went to him later at a reunion and I said, you called it. You said I was going to be, why did you say that? And he's like, I said, it looked like he would never say that to somebody. You'd think he would own it and say, Oh yeah, I knew.

And I told you, no, he was like, he'd look like he didn't even know who that was asking. I feel like he never would have said that in a million years. So again, sometimes things come out of our mouth. That's not us. It comes through us. So if you think of it that way, why are we here?

We're here for a reason. We're going to get nudged along, listen to the signs, own who you're supposed to be. Cause you're, you are that person. Don't let your human doubt get in the way. That's like the guy closing the pipe. Oh, I don't know if I'm really creative.

I don't know if I'm really a businessman and you're just closing the pipe. You're not going to let it flow. Just be a good pipe. Just say, I just want to be a, I just want to be a good pipe, clean open. And then that's when the magic happens.

And no matter what, don't blink, don't blink. No matter how many that dude was getting so much shit thrown at him. I wish you knew that time period. Cause then you wouldn't, you would go like, yeah, that's right. It's incredible. It was unbelievable. I can't even convey. There was no internet and stuff back then.

This was like literal press reviews public. It was like, why are they targeting this guy? You know, they just did not like, he just had unprecedented success and was a really great guy and was making amazing shit. So it was the, the triple threat of make people jealous. Well, he's one of the great artists of all time.

So are you. It's a huge honor to talk to you. Thank you for everything you're doing in the world, for creating the world and for inspiring millions of people to also be creators in the world and for your new project that's bringing people in. Robert, I'm, as I told you, I'm a huge fan.

I appreciate that. It's a huge honor to talk to you, brother. So great talking with you. Great questions. You're going to change your life. Thank you, brother. Million dollars. Yeah. Right there. Thank you for listening to this conversation with Robert Rodriguez. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description.

And now let me leave you with some words from Alfred Hitchcock. Thank you. In feature films, the director is God. In documentary films, God is the director. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time. Thank you.