Well, we talk a lot about joy in God in this podcast. We love talking about joy in God. It's at the very core, at the very heart of what we do at Desiring God. So it raises the question, how closely connected is the full experience of our joy in God to the charisma, the gifts of the spirit outlined by Paul in the epistles of the New Testament?

Like in 1 Corinthians 14, for example, where he talks about the gifts of tongues and of prophecy. It's a question from a listener named Matthew. Dear Pastor John, thank you for the podcast. I appreciate Tony's continued invitation for listeners to send in questions that get to the very foundations of what this podcast represents.

Amen. Keep them coming. So here's mine. How essential is continuationist theology for experiencing the fullest expression of Christian hedonism? In other words, if I am a cessationist, will my joy be incomplete? Let's begin with three definitions so that we know what we're talking about. First, I assume that when Matthew asks about continuationist theology, he's referring to the view that the spiritual gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12 to 14 are still available and operative in some measure today.

Second, I assume he means by cessationism the view that the extraordinary supernatural gifts like speaking in tongues, prophecy, healing, discerning of spirits, and so on, are no longer given by the spirit and should not be pursued today. That's cessationism. And third, by Christian hedonism, I take him to mean my view that God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in him, and that therefore it is our duty to pursue maximum satisfaction in God so that he might be maximally glorified in us.

Those are my three definitions. And the question that is being asked is whether the denial of the presence of spiritual gifts will limit the goal of Christian hedonism, namely the maximum joy in God for the sake of maximum glorification of God, and two, to put it positively, would the pursuit of spiritual gifts enlarge the outcome of our pursuit of joy in God for the sake of his glory?

Now there are several things that I need to clarify here before I give a specific answer to that question. The first important clarification to give is that any given cessationist may have greater joy in God than any given continuationist, and vice versa. In other words, nothing in continuationism guarantees that the Christ-exalting joy of every continuationist will be greater than the Christ-exalting joy of every cessationist.

That's not true. There are too many other factors involved to make that judgment. That's the first thing that really needs to be kept in mind. Here's the second one. Spiritual gifts are only spiritual in the fullest biblical sense—that is, made holy and beautiful and Christ-exalting by the shaping power of the Holy Spirit in them.

They are only spiritual in that fullest biblical sense when the Holy Spirit makes them so, which means that in and of themselves they may not be a sign that a person is spiritual or even born again. Now I know that sounds strange to some people, that an unregenerate, unchristian person could speak in tongues or perform healing, but that's true.

The devil himself is going to produce deceptive signs and wonders at the close of the age (2 Thessalonians 2:9), and Paul says amazingly in the first three verses of 1 Corinthians 13 that we can speak in tongues, we can have all knowledge of mysteries, we can move mountains. And yet if we don't have love, the premier grace of the Holy Spirit, if we don't have love, we're a noisy gong, a clanging cymbal, and we morally, spiritually amount to nothing, he says.

That's damning for those who have spiritual gifts, but don't have love. In other words, speaking in tongues, prophesying, moving mountains may not be spiritual in that fullest sense. And what this means is that spiritual gifts are, in an important sense, like other natural gifts, like food, sunsets, friends, children, music.

All of those things can become means by which we know God and taste God more fully and thus enjoy him more fully and glorify him more fully, or they can become replacements for God and actually detract us from the enjoyment of God himself. That's true for natural gifts in nature.

It's true for spiritual gifts that are not infused by the Holy Spirit. So with those clarifications, my answer to the question is, all other things being equal, a person who pursues spiritual gifts can experience the goal of Christian hedonism more fully than a person who doesn't. All other things being equal.

That's because God has given spiritual gifts as a means of ministry to his people, and these gifts are points of supernatural encounter with the living God in which he shows more of his power, more of his wisdom, more of his love to his people, and whenever God is showing more of himself, there is the possibility of our having more joy in him and seeing more of him and being more deeply satisfied in him and thus glorifying him more.

So I think Paul's three commands to earnestly desire spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 are in fact given both for the upbuilding of the body of Christ and for the increase of our joy in him. He says, "Earnestly desire the higher gifts," 1 Corinthians 12, 31. He says in 14.1, "Pursue love and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy." And in 14.39, "Earnestly desire that you may prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues." So Paul is not, when he says that, he's not seeking the diminishment of our delight in God when he makes these commands.

He's seeking the increase of our joy in God as we see him show his power and show his love to his people through us. So yes, I think all other things being equal, a person who pursues spiritual gifts can experience the goal of Christian hedonism more fully than a person who doesn't.

That's good, and worth thinking about very carefully. Pastor John, thank you for maintaining this priority on joy and the earnest pursuit of the Holy Spirit over the years. I really appreciate that. And thanks for listening to the podcast. Of course, you can stay current with our episodes on your phone or device by subscribing through your preferred podcast catcher app.

And I know a lot of you join us at the gym or on your way to or from work, and so we're always grateful to be along with you in your day. If you want to search our past episodes in our archive, we have a bunch of them, about 1,200 episodes now.

And if you want to send us an email of your own, even questions about the very foundations of what we talk about, things like God's sovereignty, his chief desire for his glory, and his appeal to us that our joy would be full in him, we love those kinds of questions.

You can search the archive. You can send us an email. You can do that through desiringgod.org/askpastorjohn. Well what does the Apostle Paul mean when he says we are to judge angels in 1 Corinthians 6 verse 3? It's an incredible text. But what exactly does it mean? That is how we will begin the week together.

I'm your host Tony Reinke. Have a great weekend. We'll see you on Monday. you you