(upbeat music) - Joshua writes in and asks, "I'm the pastor of a small congregation "in Western North Carolina. "It has been very difficult to get people excited "about serving the Lord in the local church, "and hence there are only a few committed people "serving here. "Because of this lack of interest to serve, "ministry growth is being stunted.

"Pastor John, what advice would you give me "to help people get excited about serving Christ?" - Well, I am really eager to say something helpful, if I can, about that, because I've seen it done badly, and I've seen it done well, and I've tried to do it myself for 33 years as a pastor.

I know pastors want their people to love the church, and love service, and link arms with the pastor, and throw themselves in with joy, and when it doesn't happen, it can be really discouraging. I've seen it done badly. My wife and I were in a church, that was probably 10 years ago, on vacation in a town, and we decided to go to church Sunday evening, and we went, and it was the most berating sermon we had ever heard.

This pastor, for 30 minutes, was spanking his people, criticizing his people, complaining to his people, and the issue was Wednesday night attendance. And when we walked out, Noel, my wife, never criticizes anybody. She said to me in the car on the way home, I don't think we'll go back there.

I mean, that's a documentation of how not to do it. It just doesn't do any good to use the pulpit to spank your people. On the other hand, when I was out of love with the church, and wondering if the church, like an idiot, wondering if the church had any future in 1968 and '69, when I was 20 years old, 22 years old, I went to Ray Ortland Senior's church in Pasadena, and Sunday after Sunday, watch this man in the pulpit love his God, love his church, and love his ministry, and summon people into his loves.

And everything in me fell in love with the church. So the simple answer there was, here was a man who so manifestly exalted over the word of God, so manifestly exalted over the church of God, and over the ministry God had called him to, how could you not want that?

He was so happy in his ministry, and so loved his ministry, that I'm just all frustrated here in my pew, and he's happy in the pulpit. There's a way to fix this, you know? I want what he has. And so I think the key there, and this is what I tried to do for 33 years with more or less success, I think the key to motivating people for ministry is to talk more about God and less about ministry.

When people have asked me, how do you motivate people for world missions? I say, stop talking about world missions, and start talking about a global God. And I don't mean just talk about him, I mean love him. I mean exalt in him, I mean blow people away with his vision for this world, and his absolute promises that this gospel is gonna be preached to all the nations, and the glories that's gonna happen for this Christ when all the nations stream to him.

People don't get excited about burdens being laid on their back. They get excited about a burden lifter. They get excited about a God infinitely worthy of their allegiance and their worship. So my counsel is at the beginning of a ministry, and really I suppose anywhere along the ministry, put very little emphasis on programs.

Put very little emphasis on activities in the church. Don't come into a church and say, okay, we got these five activities, and I'm in here to revitalize those five activities. That's just a crazy way to go about church renewal. Rather, put a huge emphasis on heralding, exalting over the greatness of God, the unsearchable riches of Christ, the glories of our salvation, the wonders of the Bible, and weave into that a life of prayer for your people that God would give them a taste for this glory so that they don't feel forced.

They have a desire and a longing because God has become something amazing to them 'cause you really don't want any other kind of service, do you? You don't want service because you've scared them into it or twisted their arm into it. You want service that is overflowing out of...

Here's a story. I came to Bethlehem 33 years ago, and there was a corps of people. It was small, who didn't like me, and they stonewalled me. They wouldn't sing the songs. They folded their arms. They sat on the back pew. There were about 11 pews in those days.

They sat on the back one. They were just like really close 'cause 11 is not many, and I did everything I knew to win them over, and finally, I just said to them, you know, I love you, and I intend to outrejoice you and outlast you, (laughs) and I did.

They were all gone eventually. Some of them won over. Some of them just vanished, and my point is I didn't try to get them into service. Like if I could just get them into service, I didn't want them in service. They would be bad blood everywhere. I wanted them to love Christ and to love the gospel and to love singing and to love worshiping and yes, to love me, but I was not going to be drug down to their level and fold my arms, become bitter, and become angry.

I really wanted to so exult over Christ that they would see, and I give thanks to all the ones who did, and I pray that those who left might have found it in another place, so my last word is don't preach and teach and labor over programs and activities.

Give yourself to the word and to the glories of God. - Thank you, Pastor John, and thank you for listening to this podcast. Email your questions to us at askpastorjohn@desiringgod.org, and you can visit us online at desiringgod.org to find thousands of books and articles and sermons and other resources from John Piper, all completely for free.

I'm your host, Tony Reinke. Thanks for listening. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)