Pastor John, you have a new edition out of your book Brothers, We Are Not Professionals, and it's a book for pastors, but I remember reading it cover to cover for my own Christian Growth several years back, and in this new edition, what's changed is you've added six new chapters, and one of those chapters is on exercise.

It's not easy to explain the body-soul dynamic; this is pretty tricky stuff, but what have you learned as you've thought through the topic of exercise and why exercise matters? I learned things from the Bible, and then I learned things from trying to work it out. What I see in the Bible is that bodily training is of some value.

1st Timothy 4, 8. Spiritual training is of value in every way, so if you have to choose, choose spiritual training, but he does say bodily fitness, bodily training is of some value, so I know in Paul's mind there's some good in this, and he says in 1st Corinthians 6, "I won't be enslaved by anything.

The stomach is for food, food is for the stomach, both will be cast away, and all things are lawful for me, but not all things help, all things are legitimate for me, but I won't be enslaved by any," which means Christians should never be in bondage to food and drink, which means you should ask, "Well, what should be the guideline?" And I would assume with Jonathan Edwards, who had resolutions about this, that we eat in a way and we drink in a way that doesn't deny the sheer pleasure that God intends us to have, he says that plainly in the pastoral epistles, but don't jeopardize our own faith or another's faith, our own health, that would undercut our ability to serve Him.

You know, in that same text, I remember years ago, seeing for the first time, it says, "The Lord is for the body, and the body is for the Lord," and I always heard, "The body is for the Lord," my mother, you know, taught me not to smoke because your body's the temple of the Holy Spirit, and you don't treat your body that way.

That argument worked for me as a kid, but I never noticed the Lord is for the body, which means God is very pro-body, He's not a Platonist. He's gonna, He created the body, He's gonna raise the body from the dead, He believes in the body, He wants us, therefore, I think, to take care of the body.

So that's that's my biblical piece. My practical piece is this, two things. When I was in Germany, remember, realizing for the first time, so I'm between 25 and 28 years old, I'm real slow, so I should have known this earlier, but when I lack sleep, I get irritable. That is, I'm impatient.

When I get enough sleep, I'm less irritable and more patient, and that created a huge theological problem for me, because the Bible says that patience is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, and now I've just said it's a fruit of sleep. So you talked about the soul-body dynamic, well, there it is.

Crystal clear, my sanctification level rises and falls with eight hours versus five hours of sleep. How in the world can that be biblical? And the way I resolve that is this, the way the Holy Spirit, who knows that we are soul and body, produces His fruit is not only directly by giving us supernatural power to be patient when we haven't gotten enough sleep, but He also gives us the humility to go to bed and stop playing God and get enough sleep and admit, "Okay, staying up another two hours either to waste it on TV or to work my tail off trying to get more done on my dissertation, both of those are sinful, and you are bringing about your impatience by failing to sleep." And the Holy Spirit cuts that off and says, "No, you must be humble.

I'm going to make you humble enough to go to bed." That's one. And here's the other one. I know that I'm prone to depression and discouragement, and I have simply discovered, Tony, that if I go to the gym three times a week and hammer my body, that is get on an elliptical and push through three, four, five miles and sweat two, three pounds off, I don't get depressed as often, period.

Now, I'm sure there are physical reasons for that, these little endorphins or something that are released in the brain or whatever, or it could be just I'm satisfied with myself more than if I just sit and vegetate at home. Whatever it is, I know that works. I know depression hurts my ministry, depression hurts my marriage, depression hurts my parenting.

So, for the sake of kingdom purposes, I'm off to the gym. You know, you can just leave aside exercise. That's a big controversy, but eating is not controversial. Everybody has to eat to live, and everybody has to sleep to live. Those are two. You can live without exercise, but you can't live without eating and sleeping.

And then the question becomes, "All right, how do I govern my eating and sleeping to maximize my life, my soul, for the kingdom?" And everybody will discover the connections if they think about it. Thank you, Pastor John. The newly re-released book is titled "Brothers, We Are Now Professionals," and thank you for listening to this podcast.

If you have a question for Pastor John, please send it to us via email at AskPastorJohn@DesiringGod.org. Please include your first name and your hometown. You can find thousands of other resources from John Piper for free online at DesiringGod.org. I'm your host, Tony Ranke. Thanks for listening.