what's going on y'all it's another episode of curious mike i am here with chris brickley um it's an honor to have you on man you know there's very few people that i feel like their reputation is you know like yours to where there's nothing bad across the league across friends across people that work with you that have a negative thing to say about you and you know you're one of the best trainers in the game so it's an honor to have you on and just chop it up no i appreciate that man been as you know i've been a fan of your game for years i've been we've been texting back and forth i've been trying to get you in the gym uh that big fan of the game team puma you know both in the puma family but uh no thanks for having me yeah no doubt bro so brother like i was just um you know saying i feel like in your space there's always you know because there's so many trainers that are trying to you know get in the door with players and things like that so a lot of trainers i feel like have just good reputations from some people than other people have bad reviews bad reputations i feel like one of the things about you is there's not a player in the league a player you work with that has a negative thing to say about you um how did you kind of cultivate that relationship with players to was it just like are you i feel like you got to be very intentional in that space because that's one of the things i really admire about you yeah no i first of all i appreciate that you know i've i've done a bunch of interviews and no one's ever like said that or broken that down so i appreciate that um i guess yeah i'm very very intentional with who i work with who i give my energy to uh i feel like i've always been big on you know every relationship either giving energy or you get energy and i've always been someone where i know my role and it's to give energy to players and to help players become the best version of themselves and uh so that's always been my role and i've always just dropped my ego when it comes to that and um so far it's you know it's been good it's been good for me it's amazing like tracing back early like let's get into the chris brickley story a little bit um you obviously hoop coming up you know you had a passion for hoop and then what was that like after high school i i think i read that you tried to walk on somewhere yeah and then from there was it just right into the training i um i actually had a guest on yesterday who said they knew you towards the beginning of your journey and they remember there were times where you were in the car like you were sleeping in the car yeah things like that and really just thugging it out so like those early days when you decided to transition what was that like yeah so okay so i grew up in new hampshire i hooped went to northeastern uh small division one school transferred to louisville as a walk-on uh and then at that point in my life i was like all right no chance of making the nba and i looked up to coach patino i was like damn this guy lives a great life he drives a cool car has money has a nice watch teaches the game of basketball also regardless of the reputation he teaches kids life like he was he's the best teacher i've ever had and so i wanted to be that so i wanted to get into coaching so i was like the youngest division one assistant coach in the country uh at fairly dickinson then um i took an internship with the knicks and then my intern year so i'm like the rebounder and then you know uh all of a sudden carmelo who was like in the prime of his career um took a liking to me and he said i want you to be my main trainer mid-season and that literally i was making 300 a week as an intern that changed the my entire life so then for four years i was with mellow year round we travel with them um got to know him really well through him got to know all these other players and then so i was with the next four years through four different coaches four different gms like we experienced a lot um then i was like okay i could stay with the knicks i think if i leave though i've made enough connections through mellow i could start my own business and yeah i took a chance my family's like you're leaving health insurance you're leaving a guarantee guarantee check are you sure you want to do this um looking back i'm like i don't even know why how i could even do that but uh somehow it worked out that's amazing um for like people that you know are aspiring to be or just break away from the norm the nine to five the the typical job and make something of themselves you have done that you gambled on yourself and it paid off um like what would you say to people that are teetering that edge of like trying to play it safe versus try to like explore and see what they can make of their life so it's like you can't be you don't want to be delusional like at the same time but you also you want to believe in yourself it's like a it is a fine line like um and i played that super close i feel like um so i left the knicks and i initially i was gonna sign this big deal with nike and so in the back of my mind i'm like okay i'm talking to a vp of nike i'm gonna sign this big deal in nike um long story short that guy wanted to control my whole team all my childhood friends that would rebound for me and all that he's like no i don't want that i want this so i was like i'm not doing this two months go by i'm homeless don't have a home i go from i'm coaching with the knicks i'm gonna sign this big nike deal i turn it down and i'm in new york city at the yotel trying to get back in the room and they're like your credit card decline if i have no money left my my uh debit card this was like six seven years ago and uh i'm sleeping like where i do the runs now lifetime sky i'm like sleeping in like a side room that like i found for like a few months not telling anyone not even telling mellow and i did i had too much pride to tell him i had too much pride to tell the players um yeah and i just grinded it out i just literally workout by workout i never really showed the players who i didn't i never told them what was going on and uh kept doing my job assigned a manager signed with a manager who helped me get some deals and then that kind of changed everything it's amazing that's an amazing story um i feel like in the training space you know as a trainer as a basketball player there's only so many drills you can really do right there's so many people who are very knowledgeable about the game can break different things down but there's really only so many drills you can do and you have elevated over the last probably 10 to 15 years is like the you know the epitome of of what an nba trainer looks like um off the court and on the court you know how what do you feel like separates trainers from like average trainer from the best trainers because i feel like something you touched on is is the relationship you build in the energy you give off because like you were just saying when you were a ball boy or a intern with the knicks or just rebounding for players mellow at the prime of his career one of the most skilled players ever he wasn't even trying to rock with the quote unquote best trainer in the world at that time he was rocking with you and like you probably were just getting into i mean you probably knew what you were doing but like at the end of the day there's only so many drills you can do so how important is that relationship and kind of the energy trainers give off to players in terms of elevating themselves it's everything so i think i learned that from phil jackson i feel so i was with the knicks that was an end of phil's career he took over the knicks as like president and so when he first got the job the whole staff's like oh everyone's done so the season ended we're doing exit meetings head coach goes in gets fired assistants going gets fired so i'm at the bottom of the line so i'll call my dad i'm like i'm about to get fired right now so i go into phil's office and feels like he asked me three questions um by the grace of god i answered him in a way that he liked him and he's like i'm gonna keep you so he fired everyone on the staff kept me we developed a friendship me and phil and he taught me when i was with the this is phil talking when i was with the bulls it wasn't about basketball it was about how i managed michael jordan and scotty pippen and dennis rodman and so then i was like damn so this whole basketball thing is like it's about managing players energy managing different players attitudes and like figuring that out and that's how you get the best of the players so i think i took a lot of that in into my training like you said obviously um you want the right drills but there's no magic drills um but yeah i think phil played a huge uh role in just my how i deal with players that's amazing so mellow you guys you guys are rocking you're kind of building your brand a little bit that way um when did it get to the point where so many players and just like how did you slowly because even when i met you a few years ago we met at some puma event yep um like it wasn't at the level it is now you know what i mean and probably a few years prior to that it wasn't at the level it was then so like how did you slowly um kind of i mean you're in new york city the biggest market but from working with mellow to all these different players how did you slowly build that reputation and that trust along the league yeah so i think so first off shout out to mellow and shout out to new york city i'd be delusional to be like in new york city didn't play a role or mellow didn't play a role i think through mellow i got a chance to work with katie and work with lebron and james and russ and these guys and just be able to spend time with them and um they got to see that i was coming from a genuine place um i knew i was talking about as far as like i wasn't bullshitting them about like uh i don't know you you know when someone's trying to talk to you about your game they really don't know so i just i was i was always honest if a player asked me something that i i didn't know i'd be honest i don't know um so i think just being honest i think uh the new york city thing really helped i had a building a team around me i i uh signed with a manager that wasn't like part of a big agency he just worked for me he went and he did he's done a great job and got me a puma deal and bmw and 2k and all these things that i think have helped me with my career that's amazing i feel like also like as a player as an nba player one thing that really turns players off to trainers is when trainers try to act like the player needs them i remember like back in high school there were a couple trainers and a couple people that would approach me and this is i was already one of the best players in the country and they would be like if you work with me you could take from here to here yeah that's probably never was in your in your no no because you just know any nba player i've ever worked with they don't need me i didn't make them you do all the work right i'm just able to be part of your journey and be able to be able to literally i i i call it like this witnessing witnessing your journey be like yeah we do drills yeah we do film but you're the one doing all the work you're the one you get the injuries i don't deal with the injuries i don't deal with that you rehabbing uh all of that stuff uh i'm huge on that too i hate when people are like i hate when trainers like my player no like no like a player me and buddy were talking about it earlier today a player should be able to work with multiple trainers and that's fine that's okay it's like no trainer should be like don't work with anyone else just work with me i just uh yeah so to answer your question i think i've always just been been open to i show love to other trainers and um i understand that i didn't make any players that's for sure yeah as you have elevated in that space and become you know who you are today i mean there's only one other person i can really think of that like has the on the court presence and off the court social media presence as you do and that's like lethal shooter but he's more like skits a little bit and you're more like really just in the trenches in the gym with players every single day as you've elevated how have you maintained like because you come off very humble you come off and i feel like that has been part of the reason for your success but how have you maintained that to where like the simplicity of what got you to where you are today which was probably grinding it out in the gym every day you know talking to players hitting players up to get in the gym and just the simplicity of that how as you have rose kind of in in fame and just in notoriety how have you maintained like that humility and just that that grind and that work ethic because i i'm around a lot of people not only basketball players um but even like musicians and other people who once they kind of taste that success of what of what money and fame and all this stuff gets them they lose that like desire to every single day wake up early get in the gym do it again how have you maintained that that's actually the way you broke that down this the the simplicity of like it's like how did i get to where i got to it's just every day getting in getting in the gym working with players building day by day day after day after day after day it's like no magic but so to answer your question yeah for sure i i went in my 20s and um i never had over 20 000 in my bank account and then you know you get to your 30s and i i have seven figures in my bank account um and then like people might ask me for pictures or and so like yeah that's for sure different that was never the plan ever that was never the plan so i have like little things that i do like for example i have humility on my finger but some that i do a lot um next knows this is i get in my car and i drive to where i used to live when i was struggling where i lived when i coached fdu in new jersey and i go on these drives and i take myself back to where i was seven eight years ago mentally and just to stay grounded you know um i think that that's like huge that's like my thing just driving back and trying to put myself myself in those places yeah no i think that's an amazing tool like taking yourself out of kind of this luxurious lifestyle and putting yourself kind of back in the grind back in the trenches like i remember before the bubble happened all the gyms were shut down um like we couldn't get in the nuggets facility i couldn't get in any of the nice gyms but there was one gym it was like a little shack and i would call it the trenches and they opened it up for me and they would let me in there and then i remember me breaking out as a player in the nba was when i went to the bubble yeah and i was for sure consistently putting up like 30 games straight but i didn't have a state-of-the-art gym i didn't have state-of-the-art recovery it was putting myself back in kind of those those hard spaces and i feel like intentionally doing that is there's got to be like some some benefit to that so true so true that that's actually dope to hear because you you're the way you put in the bubble was i feel like that was like you're like okay this guy is gonna be in the nba for a long time yeah that was like post injury like for sure rehab that whole first year of my nba career um that second year like i kind of started off okay but it was it was kind of slow i was you know sharing minutes with malik beasley tory craig wancho um you know there was like four or five of us that coach was yeah and then the bubble happened that was like the the break in the middle of the season and i got so lucky because i got to start pretty early because guys had covet so they weren't and then i got to to break out in the in the bubble but um a bunch of 20 plus games yeah yeah i remember that i definitely remember that but yeah no so i think that's huge putting your so actually just recently this is actually kind of funny a little off topic so um i have a girlfriend right uh we've been dating for like i don't know a year and a half which so she she lives like uh by massive square garden and she lives with like some roommates the play it's not really in the best area it's like their apartments like kind of grimy it's just like sorry lexi but um and so i would do this thing where and like you know i so i live where where the gym is i live in the summit i live in like a penthouse i would do this thing where i would i would go to her house i'd like sleep over and she'd go to work and i would like spend for as long as i could in her like this like old crib that like just like in the middle of the winter it's like freezing cold i'm like don't go get food i'm like i'm like starving myself i'm like almost like taking myself back this is like recently i'm i'm taking myself back to the days where like i didn't have money to eat and i just didn't have money to do anything luxurious and i would like do i would stay in her crib as long as i could so i was so uncomfortable i was i'm hungry like what the am i doing and and i feel like that like helped that helps like getting yourself uncomfortable kind of like what you're talking about about the gym yeah no that's such an underrated like tactic to increase mental strength and to increase like resiliency and all that is on purpose go put yourself uncomfortable uncomfortable position for sure and that can be as simple as waking up and you want to get in the hot shower go turn on a cold shower for sure or go get in the cold tub or do you know when you feel like doing this do something else on purpose and like that really can build you know build your mind in a way that and like there was um i watched the interview actually david goggins had an interview with andrew huberman i don't know if you know who that is yeah um but they talked about this this part in your brain that only grows when you do uncomfortable things like that's the only time that it grows is when you do uncomfortable things on purpose and you accomplish those things so what you're saying of putting yourself back in those shoes of when you didn't have much and you didn't have much money and doing that on purpose that as you climb in life i feel like that's that's important yeah no for sure the the my yeah the mindset just having that mindset i have a question for you um what what is your go-to during your playing career when moments when you're not shooting good you're not playing good do you do anything different or do you keep your routine the same when i'm not shooting good or not playing good um i try to keep my routine very similar if anything i'll go in the evenings and really just try to like like get my form and my go back to like really basic things yep um but like off of the court mental wise i have to like if i'm you know if i'm kind of like in the mix a little bit during the season hanging out going to dinners for me personally i have to like alone time is really important so i get back to spending like time alone and time time reading books times journaling times of getting that because we all like in this line of work the physical part of things is very easy so going to the gym lifting weights all that stuff is easy for me so during those hard times i have to on purpose like go to like the mental gym and like do things that i don't normally do which is journaling some meditation some prayer so that i can try to get that like feeling of heaviness yeah that feeling of whatever off of me so then i can go into the game and just feel like man like i can i can have a quick i can have a quick memory even if i miss like i'm free out there i feel loose i feel free i don't feel this pressure that's dope man that i hope someone clips that for players out there i feel like that's that's such a big thing players get stuck in there they don't know how to get out of it they don't know how to get to that journaling or being alone or they can't figure that part out and sometimes that's why players can't get to that next level i think i mean honestly for me though it goes back to faith like i like my faith in god because if you can get out quickly of like trying to perform to to appease your coaches or trying to perform to for your own or the approval of the fans or your own if you can get out of that and kind of get back to the joy of the game playing for the passion of the game playing for you know god you know being grateful for the gate the gifts he's giving you and and going out there with that mindset that's a completely different mindset than the than the previous one which is probably going to you know make fear come into your mind you're going to feel the pressure of shots when you can get into like the grateful mindset thanking god for the talent he gave you and the fact that you're able to go out there and play and be healthy that to me is a way to kind of get some of like i just said some of that unnecessary pressure off that's so true that's so true when things uh to play off that when things i feel like aren't going good in my life whether relationships or whatever i those are the times where i'm like when i pray and i'm saying thank you the most yeah for whatever reason i think i've always been like that yeah that's fine yeah well you're doing so well on the court and everything but you're doing equally as well off of the court with the um you know the new age of social media and the influence that you can have in that way um how did you really because you're one of the first guys that really paid attention to really like the content game is there as a as a trainer how did you kind of like see into that world before it became such a big thing and how have you grown that so i feel like in the beginning i was getting like killed for it because like you know mellow was like yo let's start putting content out and um it was looked at almost like oh he's just trying to show new york that he's working hard or he's not and mellow's real reason for that was he wanted to inspire younger basketball players to show them like what he was doing so then we started recording and then now jr so mellow and jr were close and then me and jr started recording then we started doing runs and then we started recording that and um a lot of negative negativity came from that because it was like oh you're only doing workouts to film them or you're only but it's like no we actually did like 50 workouts and i posted 45 seconds of one yeah um and so now i feel like it's a little bit more more more players post content so uh there's not as much negative negative vibes with it but at first i felt like that was a negative connotation with it it's kind of cool too the way you do it because even in the runs or even in the basketball workouts it looks like it's shot from like an iphone like very oh yeah um it's not like you know some of these super curated like uh creative directed things that like are mixtapes it's like no you're just showing the work on on a phone show i've always been super mindful of that i've always definitely been super mindful of that and i understand the whole no one ever misses and and it's like i'm gonna look at the camera what do you want so you want to watch the player miss 10 shots in a row i just don't i never understood that like criticized for yeah for sure uh definitely definitely they're like why aren't you doing defensive drills it's like so you want me to post a video of them of a player doing defensive slides it's strange if they try to nitpick just to try to pull out the the negative but if they even think for themselves like what would they enjoy watching what is a young basketball player he wants to watch mellow you know get in the mid post and kill these guys in your workout they want to watch clay thompson shoot and make 73s from the corner in a row like they like like i don't understand it's really the society we live in because you can be doing everything by the book being the most authentic person people are still going to find a way to twist that for sure that's inevitable that's the world we live in yeah um besides like the social media thing you have been one of the first trainers to really get some of these big endorsement deals you know the puma one um among other things how how did those things come about you mentioned something earlier that you have a guy that doesn't work with a lot of people he works for you and he's out there hustling and yeah these things done how did some of those things come about yeah so i left the knicks i was like struggling i was like into the nike thing um had a good summer like it was like four weeks after the calves i played the words in the finals i had like lebron and katie playing in a run against each other guarding each other right after and so like that was a big moment um so i had all these big agencies that wanted to meet with me i had this one guy that was emailing me every week and i was like i'm gonna take this meeting i took the meeting and he's like i promise you like i'm gonna be loyal to you i'm gonna do everything i can to help build you know so i was like all right let's do this and he got me the puma deal and i think getting a sneaker deal is huge so that led to body armor which led to bmw and tiffany's and bose and therabody and you know it's been a blessing it's been a blessing even you you even um you even what you would call it in the 2k yeah yeah 2k that was a huge moment i feel like uh i guess my popularity having like brickley's gym in there like that became a thing where i you know every every time i went to the airport it'd be like oh i play with you in the video game or there'd be people online being like i didn't know chris brickley was a real person i thought he was just a video game so that's a really cool shout out to 2k for that all that's just uh i'm super thankful but that's not why i got into what i got into we could take all that away and we could uh put my bank account at ten thousand dollars and i'm still gonna do what i'm doing i'm not i'm not doing it strictly for deals or for money or i actually love developing basketball players it's fun it's a it's a passion it's cool seeing the progress it's cool watching the game and being like damn like the last last past summer we were working on that and now that's not me taking credit but it's me just being part of your journey part of a player's journey i think that that's what that makes me fulfilled that's dope man you obviously got the very distinct look with the tats going on you know i mean when people see chris brickley they know who it is when did um when did that come about was it when you were a young intern was that the was that the vibe or did that kind of man so i was super self-conscious with this so when i was with the knicks i started slowly getting tattoos i'd go with jr and so oh you're hanging out jr that's that's how you got tight for sure so i started getting them but i wouldn't show them so it got to a point where like i just have a pair so i wear t-shirts every day so it got to a point my last year with the next this is uh i've never said this on any interview we're in vegas summer league and now at this point i have like my legs and i have like my forearms we uh going to summer league practice in vegas i don't want to show my tattoos i don't want anyone to have them so and it's 115 degrees i have on my next polo with the long sleeve i have on the like the knicks practice shorts with like the spandex and and i'm just going every practice like that sweating like and coach i remember the coach is like yo why do you have long sleeves in here and i just didn't want to and then one day i'm in the locker room in at the next facility i'm changing phil jackson walks in and he saw my tattoos and i was like oh my god and he's like just be you that's literally all he said we didn't talk about the tattoos yeah but he i knew what he was talking about and i was like so i literally ended up getting be you on my on my arm and i was like yeah it i'm just gonna be myself and and i just from that point on i i stopped trying on the same with the tats yeah is there a chance that eminem was your favorite rapper growing up no no he wasn't eminem what i liked eminem i liked eminem i was eminem fan i like jadakiss i like i like like rap but no i liked uh i liked eminem um so yeah how did then how did then you know you're also very known for the black ops runs which every player has come through that gym and and and put on shows you know i love watching those highlights personally i love watching trey when he was me and they're killing i like watching when braun kd were going at it you know donovan mitchell pulls up a lot really everybody's been in that gym but how did how did the black ops runs come about and then talk about the era of hoodie mellow a little bit yeah so they that black ops runs came so mellow used to do this thing called stay mellow weekends in puerto rico and so we're by the water um and you know having some drinks and mellow's like i'm coaching with the knicks and he's like yo when we get back to new york i want you to put together a run and i was like okay like nick's got just guys on the team he's like no anyone you can find so i reach out to guys i get kd i get um kimball walker at the time uh i was like lance stevenson it was a good group of guys we do this run but i'm coaching with the knicks do the run someone else posted it i walk into the office they're like you need to go talk to um donovan the owner like you got you you can't be doing stuff like that i'm like damn so i drive from terrytown to madison square garden to walk into the owner's office and he's like i'm making sixty thousand dollars a year he's like you know you're doing that run just got the team fine fifty thousand dollars right and i'm like damn and i'm thinking i'm about to get fired and he's like you know just don't do it again i'm not mad at you um but what was the problem with it because if you're a coach if you're a coach with a team you you're not allowed to technically work with it'd be recruiting it'd be a recruiting perfect right so uh yeah that was like the first ever run technically so then i stopped doing it and then that was also part of the reason why i left the knicks i was like okay i like i want to be able to do my own thing like that so that was the first ever run the hoodie mellow thing how that came about was um so mellow's that me me and mellow have two different uh stories um i remember mellow was going through a time in new york where playing for the knicks isn't easy if you're not winning championships which they haven't been and you're the franchise player they're they're gonna be on you especially if you're not making big player friends when we're in the gym he didn't want to be bothered he didn't want anyone coming up to him hey mellow come hello blah blah so he put a hood on and that was him being like don't talk to me not to me but to anyone that were to walk to the gym and we just started working out and we were posting and he had the hood on and then that just became a thing and then uh that was how it started and then i think the nba implemented hoods that next season it was kind of crazy that that time was oh yeah they implemented the the warm-ups yeah that's fire um who have you seen walk through that gym that to you is well first let's ask like who are the most impressive players um with the most impressive work ethic is it does it correlate to how the world sees them like is lebron the lebrons and the kds also the hardest workers or who's some guys that you've seen that are just so yeah like they it's like they are the hardest workers like lebron you know we'll schedule eight o'clock workout eight a.m and every single time we've ever worked out he shows up at 6 a.m and he stretches for an hour and then there's abs and then then lifts and every single time if there's a run at 10 he's getting there at eight like so it's it's tough not to say him yeah he's he's 40 years old and he's still in the league and he's still averaging 27 whatever a game so it's tough not to say him and it's tough not to say kd it's like we've every time i've ever worked with him he's he's gone game speed everything we've ever done i can't ever remember a moment where he's like had a moment in the workout where or a day where he didn't want to go like really hard and so i think it like correlates to like yeah i think those have been like to me those have been the most impressive guys and yeah that's not the best answer but yeah i mean no but it's there's no secret to success like everybody's heard the lebron stories of how dedicated he is to his craft but to hear it from you know a guy that works with him often and just every single time showing up two hours before taking care of his body i mean there's a reason that guy's not only been as successful as he is but how long he's done it like a body a human body at that age is not supposed to be doing what lebron for sure for sure and just recently so he started like the podcast i thought it was interesting he said i think steve nash was like why do you get there early he was like ever since the little kid whenever he had to practice if he made if he cut it too close he would get really anxious and so i think because of that that made him start to get there early and so that's that's like so that's so deep to think about that like so because him cutting anything close made him anxious that would make him want to get to places really early and now he's lebron right now he's lebron now he's you got austin reeves saying that he he's trying to beat lebron to the to the the facility before a game and lebron still shows up before and like lebron will show five four or five hours before the game it's crazy like he has dedicated his entire existence to being great and it's really like it's really inspiring at some point they're gonna have to like when you talk about the the lebron mj debate you got to account for the longevity at some point for sure like you know sure it's unbelievable who's someone who like is like an underrated well a player that maybe hasn't like broke through all the way to their potential but like you've seen them in the gym and they're just very very impressed yeah and i guess there's like different levels of it like i feel like cj mccomb should have been all-star at some point in his career yeah oh he hasn't been you know he's averaged 20 points in the game for i want to say like i don't even know 13 straight seasons 14 straight seasons never been an all-star i feel like he's a guy that you know he's so good like ridiculously skilled i think he doesn't get his flowers still averaging 22 on like 40 from three um yeah i think that's a good one yeah because he got he got every dribble move he got the left hand the right hand the midi he got the three ball he got the he has and he's doing all that without being like a supreme athlete you know one which is awesome you're right about that always very impressive to me um you've also worked with my boy trey young yep i told him the other day when we did a workout together i was like isn't it weird trade to think that like at your size and at your height you are the best player in the world like like you know you got the jalen brunson's and the kyrie's but they're a little stocker a little stronger you kind of bump people yeah pound for pound pound he's the best player in the world and for sure that is someone who um the average person who has big dreams to be an nba player you know you can look at trey you could probably look at like peyton pritchard uh maybe a couple other guys and be like that's that's reasonable for me so like as far as trey goes i know you've worked with him a lot this off season what is what is it like getting in the gym with him i feel like so special do you agree i feel like the appreciation for trey and i don't know what it is maybe it's atlanta this is this situation maybe it's but every single season he puts up phenomenal numbers it's the worst i've ever seen of any player in the history of people almost like he doesn't get picked you know he made the all-star but i think someone got injured and he but i'm like what else does this guy have to do to get like the respect that he deserves like now yes he he's trey young he you know has a great contract he's but i i still i feel like he doesn't get the appreciation to the point that he deserves i mean there's there's there's years where he's top five and scoring and assists like often like for sure he's one of the best scorers in the game and he's also one of the best playmakers like 100 and he's six one six two and super like so i don't know what it is i don't know if it's that early on he kind of took on that villain that villain role you know coming to new york and and getting on new york's bad side sure killing the knicks and things like that i don't know if that's it but there was a year that it was like he easily should have been an all-star like yes didn't get it i forget what year it was and then like there was a year he was but it was because someone got injured like you said so i don't know what it is with trade to me it's it's like they should be hyping that up more because of the fact that he's he's an average you're right so relatable like so related my boy next like like like the people like that are regular height and yes trey's quick don't get me wrong and like uh but like just like normal people walking around like could look at trey young and be like like that could be me i thought caitlyn clark has that effect i think that's part of why she became so big because she was like someone that's people could relate to yeah 100 who um how do you as a trainer decide who you're willing to work with because i feel like um it's i mean if i was a trainer i would probably be like as long as they're willing to work hard and be consistent whatever but for you what is it so it's changed so in the when i first started like six years ago when i first left the next i'm taking anybody so if you're in the league i'm taking you um it's over the last two or three years it's it's been a like i have to like your game i have to think that i can help you somehow or there's something that i've worked with a player that maybe has been similar to you or there needs to be something where i feel like i could bring to the table that um it really bothers me when a player just wants to work out for videos on my social media um and i would never say the names of any of those guys but that's been some disappointing moments in my career where me and a guy will start working out and on like the second workout he's like jay you're gonna post that video i was like yo and then like we slowly like you won't see me with him working with him anymore because i'm like that's not what it should be about it's funny that normally the trainers would would try to link up with players for the for the clout but you've gotten to the point now where certain players will try to link up with you and get a video posted because you've elevated to that level which is no it is but it's like i talk about this with my and it's like my manager's probably gonna be so mad i'm saying this having a video okay so if you're a free agent having a video on my page it's not gonna it's not gonna get you picked on the team yeah it's not gonna happen yeah some players think that it's that's just not the case uh i couldn't stress that enough like i i want to work to get better to help you get better but a video on social media that's 45 seconds long is not gonna make a team want to pick you in my opinion maybe i'm wrong there's one player i want to i want to speak about because i feel like i can relate to him and he's gotten also some unfair criticism and you've witnessed him up close and that's ben simmons um you've seen him in the black ops runs going crazy dunking off the left foot the right foot playmaking you've seen his explosion end to end and the reason that i like i feel for ben in his situation is because i haven't gone through what he's gone through times three i think i've had three back surgeries he may have had one or two yeah but i know how that you know i know that story and how demoralizing that is and how like you know your mind has to become very resilient very strong and you have to adapt your game a little bit and you have to be very dedicated but for the people that say like ben simmons doesn't care about basketball or he lost all his confidence or um like what would you say to them because you've been in the gym with him and you've seen him like kind of in that era where he was just unreal for sure exactly i've seen him when he like before his like injury before his like essentially it was his back and but those are real injuries yeah that he want he wanted to be healthy like he didn't want to be not healthy like and i salute you like i don't know how you've done it i know you talked about journaling and you've talked about being alone and spending alone time and but to go through like three you've had three back surgeries back for all of them and to come back and still be an elite elite level player like you deserve all the flowers in the world for that like your average person walking around doesn't understand and even i haven't gotten the surgery so i i don't quite but i've been around players to see you have to work times five to after that like compared to what the average player has to work and like take care of their body and watch their diet and do their recovery it's it's times five or ten for me for sure like i literally had to go from being a player that likes to drive right to a player that prefers to go left i had to go from a player like like there's so many little things that people don't know about my story that what was the toughest one to bounce back from so the first one i had at mizzou and i actually i actually hurt my back probably sophomore year of high school playing with trey young and you were number one and you you're number one in the country number one in the world at this point um for my projected number one in nba jack number one draft pick best player in the country so all those things and trey can attest to this like we were in practice with mo can you know and i'm a sophomore it's a sophomore summer going into junior year and we're in practice i'm going up i'm like back then like my balance was od so i'm going up dunking about to dunk on to do baseline he runs by me grabs my like like arm and air and you've seen those videos of people like falling on their back really high right yep and that's what happened the wing got knocked out of me and like whatever it took me a second to get up but i got up and my back felt a little like like off right but nothing crazy so i didn't give it proper time to recover from there i think i played in the game the very next day okay but i think i started compensating for like little pains in my back and um there was like some soreness and then i went to go see like a chiropractor or something or a doctor maybe a few months later when kind of that that feeling wasn't ever right in my back again and they said i had degenerative disc disease right they did an x-ray and i didn't like at this point now i'm like an expert with the bat because i've gone through so much first time i had no idea what that meant he said degenerative disc disease and i was like like my mind this is why i talk about the power of the mind it automatically went to fear i'm like oh no like i'm broken like i'm degenerating like this is a disease i didn't know that every single person on the planet and especially if you're an athlete as you age those discs become like if you if you mri any basketball player yeah their mri is going to come back a little abnormal we're 6 10 we're moving crazy like i didn't know that at the time so this implanted like a bunch of fear in my mind and from there for some reason the pain got worse like i i don't think it was a physical thing i think it was the mind so now my junior year comes along like i'm still progressing as a player i'm still the number one player in the world but um i'm still feeling my back senior year comes along same thing i'm playing under brandon rory we're the best team in the country i'm the best player but my back is still bothering me every day i'm starting to get like so you're still being the number so you're still maintaining the number one spot and i'm like every day and you're not at 100 percent that's actually crazy right there i know like there was a lot of stiffness in my back but then i committed to mizzou and i remember i kept during this whole time trying to see different therapists different chiropractors and all these things i saw one chiropractor at mizzou and they did some weird crack on my back and then the pain went from like my back to down my leg and i'm sure you've talked to like ben or people that have been in that situation where they get that nerve pain i started to get this weird nerve pain but the doctor the chiropractor said that's just new muscles turning on so i let that i let that ride out for a few days but the first game at mizzou sold out crowd is in three days and i'm dealing with this weird nerve pain and then like i'm waking up every day and my leg looks like it's getting a little small like it's atrophying like the damn so now i'm going into this this first game in mizzou and i'm like i'm expected to put on show you know when i committed to mizzou the attendance of the school rose by thousands just because of my commitment so i'm feeling all this pressure to perform but my leg isn't working right i'm trying to jump and i'm i'm not getting off the ground really and so i tell my dad in the warm-ups of that game like yo dad like i can't i can't play like i don't know what's going on with my leg and my back but i i can't jump in warm-ups like i don't know what's going on and so they told me i had to start the game because it was a big tv production and they already had the starting lineup yeah um ready so i had to start the game and i came out a minute into the game and that was my pretty much my college experience so then i get on the phone with my agent and i'm like because he's watching the game expecting and then he's um he tells me to try to walk on my heels a certain way and i can't do it on the on that left side right because that nerve was damaged it wasn't sending the signal down to my muscle which was the reason for the for the atrophying um so i end up getting it having to get that first surgery that month later um and then from there you know i didn't know how to rehab it properly ended up getting my second surgery once i got drafted by by denver and this is a whole drawn-out story but at this point i've had three back surgeries i've had to learn how to go through each one of these and figure out my body a little bit more just to try to stay healthy and try to like compensate for different movements and different ways that i would naturally like to flow and play but because of the injuries i've had to adjust no player i feel like in the history of the nba has had to compensate and learn how to be effective in different ways essentially play different like playing what your mind wants to sometimes yeah literally like on the court people be like why aren't you smiling why aren't you like getting hype when you make a three why aren't you whatever and it's literally because i'm having to think about so many technicalities and how i i can't just lose myself in the game and just that's actually crazy i have to think so much more than i used to which um you know it goes back to those things where you gotta you gotta choose the things you're gonna be grateful for and you have to reflect and at this point in my life i always talk about you know at this point i can genuinely look back on some of those hard experiences and look at them as a blessing but my story is very unique i haven't really told it to the to the world in the way that i would like to like in detail because people won't understand they'll just but it's it's tough that's why i brought up ben because i just feel for him because like it's not like he wants to be in a situation not like he doesn't want to play basketball he went through some very similar things that i went through and i know how hard that is and people act like he just doesn't want to go hoop i know no and that's that's not that's not the case right that's not the case no um yeah even this past year uh like six in the morning we would begin working he was trying to get back right um yeah and he did his body wasn't right his body wasn't right when you have the fans they make their own narrative and it's just like you know what's strange though people talk we were just talking about the mind the way i've the way these last few seasons i missed no games because my back this past year i played 79 games i missed three because of a little hamstring thing the year before that i played 81 games the only game i didn't play was because of i forgot like the the team forgot my right the right shoes okay so i would have played 82.

the way that i got my back to be stable and to be healthy had nothing to do with um doing the right recovery doing the right stuff in the weight room that had a part to play it literally was the mind it literally was learning how to we hold we i used to think it was so taboo when they would say that you could hold fear and hold different emotions in your tissues in your body some people holding their neck or some people get migraines or some people when i learned how to release these like repressed emotions and this tension that i hold in my body my back never had an issue yeah that that that's deep and then that's so true though it's so that is that the power of the mind it really is way more powerful than yeah than even we think like yeah even like we're talking about it now and i think it's even more powerful than that because it has to do with not only your physical body but also like what you were talking about when you go through a shooting slump how do you handle that mentally it doesn't have to do with your physical mechanics a lot of time it has to do with what you're what you're holding in your your mind and stuff so that's a whole other conversation we can have i actually had a brain expert on here that we uh that we haven't released the episode yet but following this episode like i'll probably put that one out you definitely should that'd be fire um i know i've kept you here for a while but for you last couple questions like when do you see yourself kind of transitioning from this training role and like when what do you see as being next for you once that happens i feel like you're probably a basketball junkie wants to do it 20 more years yeah so i mean in the moment now like i'm riding it out while i can you know make this brand money like if i'm in a situation where i don't have to go to the player and be like give him some crazy invoice like i don't have to do that i'm in a blessed situation where these companies i can make my money through these companies i can work with the players that i genuinely want to work with and i have genuine relationships with and so as long as i can do that i know that's not going to last forever i'm mindful that as you get older you're not as cool i understand life so i'm going to ride out the wave that i'm on right now and um once that day comes then i don't know maybe i'll get back into nba coaching um maybe college coaching something like that but right now i'm just going to ride it out that's fire leave the audience with one last thing because i i really respect your kind of journey like kind of like self-made and and really you made this whole brand and your whole life based on the relationships you made and the work ethic you had and the consistency so i feel like a lot of people especially in this day and age that are so caught up in looking at other people's lives through a phone they need they need some some words of wisdom and some like motivation and inspiration for people that come from nothing you spent times being homeless and now you made it to where you are today so just leave leave leave a little tidbit of wisdom for yeah i would just say just consistency i would say you know whether someone just learns about my story now it took 10 years of like not being comfortable of uh eating rum and noodles uh for dinner for so many years um just like being uncomfortable but i knew what i loved i knew i loved basketball and so just find something you love don't do it for the money and just grind it out like literally grind it out find something you love be a good person grind it out and have faith thank god and i think good things will happen see where it takes you that's why words and this is really as simple as that um people are complicated but it's very simple and i like what you said find that passion find something you have a passion for that you love and then from there it's the consistency and the growth and spending time at it every day and attacking it from different angles and and then you know you can end up somewhere like where you're at man but this has been an amazing episode i i haven't sat down and talked like hoop in a while because with this podcast i like to branch off and do not for sure it's dope though i've watched it i've watched almost all of them and i think what you're doing is dope that's fine man but it was an honor to have you on bro and i appreciate you my guy yes sir thank you curious mike out y'all