Next Tuesday, we celebrate July 4th, Independence Day, as we call it here in the States, and the day raises questions about national loyalty and how we as Christians think through issues of how can we be an American, but also a stranger, an exile, an alien, a pilgrim. And that was our topic, really, that we addressed back in episode number 378 in years past.

This year, we're looking at the topic, but we're looking at the implications of it on the local church. And last time on Wednesday, we talked about the place of patriotism in the local church and we heard from a pastor, a listener to the podcast named Scott, who is uneasy about what he sees in the church that he inherited.

In this situation, Pastor John, when a pastor has inherited a strongly patriotic church where the patriotism is expressed in Sunday gatherings, how should a pastor who agrees with what you said last time, what should the pastor do next in leading that church well? Well, in that previous podcast, on this question, I said that I've been in several patriotic services that seemed to me to be out of sync, out of proportion to the biblical realities relating to the kingdom of Christ and our radical allegiance to him.

And I suggested seven biblical principles that would inform how a church thinks about such services and constructs them. But I'm very aware that it's one thing to know principles, and it's another thing to be part of a church that has a long tradition of services with extended focus on each of the military branches and corresponding songs and corresponding flags and marches and decorations in red, white, and blue.

And I share Scott's discomfort—Scott's the one who posed this question—I share his discomfort with those services for reasons that I think are pretty obvious from the principles. But what do you do if you have inherited such a church, if you're a pastor or an elder or just a member of the church?

So here's my suggestions to the pastors who are in these churches and feel like things have perhaps, over time, just gotten out of hand. Number one, patiently week in and week out, preach Bible-saturated, God-centered, Christ-exalting, man-humbling sermons that by implication so elevate the lordship of Christ over every detail of life with such majesty that little by little the church begins to absorb the mindset that our highest affections and our only absolute allegiance belongs to Jesus Christ, willingly, eagerly, joyfully, no regrets, no restraint.

So don't make the lordship of Christ over all of life an issue only on a controversial weekend. Do it all the time. If you do this all the time, within a few years, I think you won't be the only one who's feeling uncomfortable with those services. Number two, discuss your concerns with your trusted leaders of the church, your fellow elders, if you have elders or whoever.

Until you get some of them on board with you, any change is probably going to be futile and maybe destructive. Pray with them. Open the word with them. Share your heart with them. Be patient with them. Show them the positive outcomes, not just any losses they might perceive. Number three, along with your elders, approach some of your most biblically shaped veterans—I'm talking military veterans—in the church and share with them your love for them, your appreciation and your value of their sacrifices and risks, and let them see how you relate the kingdom of Christ to all of that.

See if you can portray a vision for them that would capture their imagination of what it might look like in a more Christ-exalting way. If you could get one or two of those folks advocating with you, you might be a long way towards winning the others as well. Number four, be a man of courage and humility and fearlessness in dealing with this issue.

The last thing you want to communicate is that Christianity is somehow a wimpy religion that's afraid of risk, afraid of danger, afraid of sacrifice and death, and that's why it doesn't want to talk about the military. No, no, no. It is in fact exactly the opposite. One very practical demonstration of this might be that on one or two Sundays a year you would choose to highlight missionaries, either alive or dead, in the history of the church who have paid the supreme price, not to advance the American way, but to advance an even greater good, namely eternal salvation that comes in the kingdom of Christ.

They too are worthy of our most focused gratitude. Number five, in whatever changes you pursue, show that there is gain and not just loss. When I came to Bethlehem in 1980, the American flag and the so-called Christian flag were in the sanctuary at the front on either side of the platform.

Now I never said a word about it for 10 years, I don't think. I could, I maybe did and don't remember, but as far as I can remember, they just sat there and I didn't say a word about that, though I felt, "Hmm, what does that mean?" In the sanctuary, in the worshiping place, at the front, featured, foregrounded.

Then we built a new sanctuary in 1990 and moved in in '91, and the issue was, "Will the flags be moved in there?" And at that point, I led the charge, the elders agreed, "Let's put the flags in the commons on either side of the steps where people go in and out from the world into worship, from the worship into the world." And I argued that the rationale was simple.

As you come and go from the house of the Lord, you pass from a place outside where we live in large measure under the authorities of this nation to a place inside where we celebrate and put all the focus on our heavenly citizenship and our submission to the supreme lordship of Christ, and therefore, if we're going to have these flags, this is a really reasonable place to have them, and we've never had a controversy about it for 20-plus years.

Nobody ever thinks about it, probably, but I think it's a good compromise. Number six, perhaps you will scale back aspects of the service and weave into the services expressions of repentance and the lordship of Christ that's been missing, and in the sermon, you can provide repeated nuancing for the way Christians have to deal with any human allegiance and help the people understand.

And the last thing, number seven, that I would say is expect conflict on this. We probably lost a couple of people over that moving of the flags. They put the worst face on it, not the best, but after you've ministered for long enough, you win the trust of enough biblical people, love them, the folks that are unhappy, go after them, tell them you care about them, you don't want to disrespect them, and in the long run, the winnowing effect, I believe, in the church will probably be good for God-centered Christ-exalting Bible-saturated atmosphere that you are trying to create.

Amen. Thank you for your practical thoughts here, Pastor John. And Scott, thank you for the excellent question, and I pray that these two episodes have been helpful for you as you lead your church. And as you can hear, we're working through some audio issues on Pastor John's end. Thank you for your patience as we work through the connection and get things fixed so that Pastor John comes through more clearly.

Well, the weekend is upon us, and next week, listen to this lineup. We're going to look at remarriage after the death of a spouse. Then we're going to look at sleep patterns, how much sleep is laziness and how little sleep is arrogance, and how do we find that balance of sleep in our lives.

A listener wants to know, and then we will look at the tension of ego and cultivating big ambitions for God. It's going to be a very interesting week on the podcast next week. I'm your host Tony Reinke, and we will see you on Monday, Lord willing, of course. We'll see you then.