If you want to grab your Bible, let's go over to, for a moment, to the book of Proverbs. And let's go over to Proverbs, and we're interested in chapter 4. And we're interested in verse 18. I think I may have mentioned this earlier in the class period, if there ever is a verse in the Old Testament that is a wonderful verse on progressive sanctification in the Old Testament, it's got to be Proverbs 4.18, "The path of the righteous is like the light of dawn that shines brighter and brighter until the full day." That is God's ability to change lives, change marriages, change homes.

And if Christians are involved, and you're counseling Christians, then as the counseling progresses from one appointment to another appointment, you should be able to see real progress and growth. Now some people are going to grow, and some families are going to grow faster than others. Some are going to be like turtles.

Others are going to be like jackrabbits. Some will move along very, very quickly, and then others will move along very, very slowly. But you'll be able to discern progress, the light getting brighter and brighter, sort of as the sun comes up, as the day goes along. And that's what should be happening in counseling.

Then you skip down to verse 22, "For they are life to those who find them." That is the words of knowledge are, "And health to all the body. Watch over your heart with all diligence, for from it flows the springs of life." Ultimately, real change is not going to be just merely behavioral or external between a husband or a wife, or between parents and their kids.

Certainly there needs to be behavioral changes. There needs to be changes in what they say to one another and how they treat one another. But it's got to be more than that. It's got to be change on a heart level, how they think and view other people in the family, how they think and view their spouse, their children, their parents.

What they want out of life, what they desire more than anything else, that's what's got to change. Otherwise, a person is only being a Pharisee if all they're doing is just merely changing externally. And if you can get, for example, you can help a husband and wife deal with communication and teach them all kinds of biblical, great biblical truths about communication.

But if their heart hasn't substantively changed on the inside, like one of the papers that you've written on, Vernick's article on communication in the heart. If their heart hasn't really changed on the inside, then all the external behavioral changes is just merely polishing the brass on the Titanic. They're all going down eventually.

This thing, all the communication techniques in the world is not going to solve problems unless people are fundamentally changed. All right, so I just say that by way of remembrance. This is what ultimately we're after, and we'll talk a little bit more about this later. We are still talking about, in our outline here, what are the process dynamics in marriage and family counseling?

And we've gotten to the point where we started talking about demonstrating good analytical and instructive skills. And let me review real quickly, when we were talking about analytical skills, what we're talking about here is don't allow for generalities. The more specific you can get your counselee to be, the sooner you're going to see change in their life.

Get them to be concrete and get them to be specific. Don't allow them to just generalize when you're counseling them. Remember to be humble enough to ask for confirmation. And I'm doing this constantly in counseling. I'll stop them and I'll say, "Okay, hold on just for a moment. Let me share with you what I hear you saying, and you tell me whether I'm right or not." What I hear you saying, and I'll put in my own words, I'm not going to repeat the words that they say.

I'm going to try to define it in my own words so that I'm putting it together from my own perspective, and I want to see their confirmation of what I'm saying. So you've got to be humble enough to do that. Be sure to invite your counselee's correction as well.

Now that doesn't mean that everything that your counselee is going to say is going to be correct, but at least they know that there can be a free exchange there, and if there is something wrong, they can help to correct you. So be sure to invite their correction. And be careful about interpreting the influence of the past.

We don't want to give the past too much influence, because as Christians, we do not believe that the past determines us. The past does have an effect upon us, but it doesn't determine us. There are an awful lot of regression therapists who want to define the past as determining us.

Modern psychology basically says that buried somewhere deep in your unconscious, or really your subconscious, is the key to your well-being, and you have to peel back layers of consciousness and get down to whatever that is, and only a trained psychotherapist has the capacity to be able to do that.

And that's the key to your well-being, and once you're able to, in a sense, relive that past, then you'll feel a lot better about it, and that'll get rid of all your neurotic tendencies. We don't believe that that's the case at all. But we do believe that certainly the past can have an influence on us.

We just don't want to give it the overruling power to determine the person at this particular point in time. They still, no matter what their past may be, they still have an incredible amount of choice in the present to choose to be God's kind of man or God's kind of woman, regardless of what the past has done.

Now, you're going to get a husband or wife who will say to you at this point, "Well, you don't know what my husband or my wife has done. You don't understand. Back when we were married the first two years, they cheated on me." Well, that certainly has had a huge influence upon you and upon your marriage, there's no doubt about that.

But that has not determined your marriage. It's only affected your marriage in as much as you've allowed it to affect your marriage. And it's only affected your marriage in as much as you have not practiced biblical forgiveness because they supposedly have repented. So the past can be influential but not determinative.

Which brings us now to instructional skills. Because these are the skills that you need when you finally get to that point where you understand what their problem is, hopefully you've diagnosed that problem biblically, you know the passages of scripture you want to go to and explain to them to help straighten out this particular problem and address their heart issues.

And now it becomes your responsibility, in a sense, to preach and to teach. Now, this is the stuff that we always like to do. This is usually the stuff that we're really trained to do. But in counseling, it's a little bit different than the preaching dynamic, and you have to be careful with this.

Similar to preaching, you can use a lot of figures of speech and metaphors and illustrations. Sometimes I can explain things, I think, in pretty good depth to a counselee, and they don't really get it until I use some kind of metaphor or some kind of an analogy or some kind of illustration, and all of a sudden you can see the lights come on, "Oh, that's what you mean.

I understand now." And that's what it stands out. Weeks later in counseling, they'll not remember all the details that I shared with them or taught them, but they'll remember that illustration, which will help them to remember key aspects of that detail, those details. So use a lot of figures of speech, use a lot of metaphors, use a lot of illustrations very liberally in marriage and family counseling.

You know, it's interesting. You can compare the husband and wife relationship to an awful lot of things. Sometimes you can compare the husband and wife relationship like two people in a rowboat. Each of them has an oar, and if only one of them's rowing, guess what's going to happen to that boat?

It's just going to go in a circle. They're really not going to make any progress at all. You get them both rowing, you're going to make progress. That's a great analogy. If only one of you is committed to this counseling process, then this whole process is just going to go in a circle.

If both of you are committed to being God's kind of man, God's kind of woman, if you're committed to doing that, then we're going to make great progress in this counseling. So use a lot of figures of speech. You can use scripture and let them read scripture so that they understand that your authority is not self-derived because that's meaningless.

I can share with them what John Street thinks that they should do about their marital problems, but that's not going to be particularly helpful to them in the long run. I can share with them what some prominent psychologist says about their problem, and that's not going to be particularly helpful to them in the long run.

But I can certainly share with them what God says about their problem. Now that carries clout because it's authoritative. So you're saying to them, "Thus saith the Lord," and if they're Christians, there should be something in their heart that resonates with that. Wow. This is God speaking. This is not just John Street speaking.

This is not just Reuben speaking. This is not just Andrew speaking. This is God speaking. This is what God is saying. And so that carries authority for change. Use a lot of diagrams as well. Use a lot of diagrams. And there's a host of them that you could be creative with.

Use -- you can use the Y diagram, and there's a lot of illustrations you can use off of the Y diagram that goes something like this. When the focus of your life is Christ, then there's going to be a certain amount of fruit that's going to be godly fruit.

When the focus of your life is self, then there's going to be a lot of rotten fruit in your life and in your marriage. So what do you want to do? Do you want to serve Christ, or do you want to serve self? If you serve self, then you're in self-destructive mode.

And it's going to not only destroy your life, but it's going to destroy your marriage. If you decide that you're going to follow Christ now, this is authoritative because Christ now is going to enable you to be able to work through your problems. That doesn't mean the problems are going to be easier.

It may be difficult to work through them, but he'll give you the answers to these problems. The difficulty here is, to begin with, this is easy, and this is hard. Later on, however, as Proverbs says, the way of the transgressor is hard, it gets hard. This starts out hard, but it ends up easy.

Now this is very appealing because I want to take the easy road real quickly. Just give me a few things to fix my marriage. Let me press certain buttons, X, Y, Z, and then everything is going to be taken care of in my marriage. Well, that's not the way it works.

In fact, this particular way means some substantive changes in your life. But if you're willing to make substantive changes, which is really hard to do, then later on life gets easier. Marriage becomes fun. God doesn't just want your marriage to survive, he wants your marriage to sing. But that means you're going to have to change, and that begins on a heart level.

How you think, what you want, and desire the most is what rules your heart. That's what dominates your life. You could have a wife who says, "Well, all I want is for my husband to love me," as we talked about before. In and of itself, that's a good desire, but that can become an evil desire when she wants it too much.

All I want is for my husband to love me. In other words, that's the thing that she lives for, that's the first thing she thinks about when she gets up, it's the last thing she thinks about when she goes to bed. All I want is for my husband to love me.

Or you can have a husband that says, "All I want is for my wife to respect me." Now in and of itself, that's a very legitimate desire, but that can become an idolatrous desire. How do we know it becomes an idolatrous desire? Because when he doesn't receive from her the respect that he thinks he deserves, then he becomes mean, angry, upset, vengeful, or maybe he becomes sullen, depressed, withdrawn, silent.

Why? Because he's not receiving the respect that he thinks he deserves from her. When that happens, this has become an idolatrous desire that now rules his heart, and he is serving self. That's the easy path to take, and it manifests itself in all kinds of rotten fruit. So use diagrams, there's all kinds of diagrams.

I usually have a whiteboard when I'm counseling right in my office, and right behind me I'm able to grab a marker like this and put a diagram on the board, and we're able to talk through all the various aspects of that. Or sometimes I'll just use my Bible, especially at a turning point in counseling, and I'll say to them, "Right at this particular point, I sense that both of you, Ben, you and Barbara, are at a crossroads.

You're right at a point, and you can either come down with both feet on man's side, or you can come down with both feet on God's side. Now what you've done in the past, from your history and your marriage, you've come down with both feet on man's side, and look where that's brought you.

Now we've got one problem after another problem that you're facing. But you have the capacity to change things right at this particular point. You can come down with both feet on God's side and say, "Listen, no matter what, I'm going to do things God's way, whether my wife or my husband decides to do that, irregardless of what they decide to do, I'm going to do things God's way.

I'm going to handle things from God's perspective." When you decide to come down with both feet on God's side, then things start to change in your life and your marriage. Now if only one of you do it, things will get worse before it gets better, because that's going to be really convicting to the other one.

That maybe will make them angry, upset. That just highlights their sin even more. So things will get worse before they get better. I had a counselee just this week, that very thing happened. He's been in counseling now for several weeks, and God has brought about some wonderful changes in his life, but that has not been true with his wife or his children.

And in fact, the more he changes for the good, the worse things get around the house. Because it's very convicting. They realize he's changed, and they haven't. And I told them, "Things are going to get worse before they get better." It's kind of like Joseph, right? It's like Joseph, when Joseph kept saying, "No, no, no," repeatedly, the Bible says there in Genesis 39 to Potiphar's wife.

After resisting that temptation, resisting temptation, you think that God would have blessed him and honored him. But what's the fruit of that? Things got worse before they got better. He got thrown into prison as a result. I know a lot of Christians who say, "Wait a minute, Lord. I resisted all this temptation.

I obeyed you, and look where I'm at. I'm in prison. I get thrown into prison. I'm falsely accused." So they sort of obey God with an ulterior motive. A lot of husbands' wives will do that, they'll obey God with an ulterior motive. They'll obey God in order to get their husband or wife to straighten up.

That's very convenient, but it's not biblical. Use a lot of open questions as well. Those questions only seek yes and no answers, right? "Did you have a good week?" Yes. It's better to ask them, "Tell me about your week. What happened this week?" "Well, I did this." "Well, what did you do after you did that?

Tell me how you interacted with one another this week. Did you have any problems? Did you have any conflicts? Did you have any arguments? Any quarrels?" Use a lot of open questions. You'll get a lot more data that way. And use a lot of role plays. Don't be afraid to put yourself in Ben's position or Barbara's position.

Use a lot of role plays. Sometimes I'll do that in counseling to help them understand how they need to respond to one another. So use a lot of role plays. Use worst case scenarios, like the wife who says, she communicates to you that she's very afraid of trusting God and submitting to her husband.

If I do that, he's going to ruin us financially. If I really practice biblical submission, as Ephesians 5 talks about, or 1 Peter 3 talks about, or Colossians 3 talks about, if I really do this, it'll ruin me. In fact, I'm supervising a gal who's counseling a woman who's in that situation right now.

This woman, this is her third marriage. The first two, she was not a believer. In this marriage, she was a believer, but she met this guy at a church, and this guy had recently been saved out of the drug culture. And turns out to be a fairly irresponsible guy.

But he shows signs of changing, which is a good thing. Shows signs of changing. And she's incredibly worried over the fact that if she submits herself to her husband, that she'll lose everything, which that's certainly possible. He could totally mismanage everything in the house, lose all the money that she has accumulated over years of really hard work.

But that doesn't change the Bible. The Bible doesn't have a footnote in it that says, "Okay, wives, submit yourselves to your husbands," and then you go down the footnote and it says, "Except for you wives who have married husbands that appear to be irresponsible." It doesn't say that. There's no caveat there.

In fact, the key thing is not holding on to the wealth of this world. The key thing is seeing past the wealth of this world and seeing the spiritual needs of the husband. Maybe she can be a dynamic testimony of responsibility and trust in God if she's willing to really submit herself into her husband.

Or she could easily say to you, "But if that's true, I'll lose my shirt." Well, you could say, "That's true. You could do that, but it could be worse." What could be worse? We would lose our home and our car and, well, that would be terrible, but it could be worse.

What could be worse than that? We lose our shirt. We lose our car. We lose our home. What are we? Out on the street. I said, "That would be terrible, but it could be worse." "I don't know. What do you mean worse?" We could die of starvation. Now, that certainly would be bad, but it could be worse.

What are you talking about? What's the worst thing? The worst thing is she could dishonor God. That's the worst thing. She could dishonor God in this situation. Is obeying God more important than life? It's a great question, isn't it? Is obeying God more important than life? Well, if it's not, then certainly Christians down through the ages gave their life for not much because rather than disobeying God, they were martyred.

What's the worst thing? What's the worst case scenario? Are you going to obey God or not? Does God know what's best for you and your marriage? I think you have to settle that issue deep in your heart. Do you believe that the Word of God has your long-term interests in mind and the best for your marriage in mind?

Do you believe that? If you don't, then you've come to the wrong counselor because you came asking for guidance from the Bible and that's what I'm giving you. What are you going to do? Use worst case scenarios. Furthermore, use your counselee's involvement in readings, responding to questions, opinions. Get them involved in the interactive process.

This should not be one way. In counseling, you're not just dumping your favorite Bible lessons on people. You're getting them to interact with the Bible. Sometimes I like to make that distinction. A lot of counselors like to dispense the Bible rather than minister the Bible. We're not out to dispense the Bible.

We want to minister the Bible. There's a big difference between the two. A person who dispenses the Bible has a lot of favorite Bible lessons and a lot of favorite things that they like to teach people. They want people to be able to say, "Whoa, look, man, they are an incredible Bible teacher." That's a person who dispenses Bible truth.

But then there is a person who really cares about the counselee and looks at life through their eyes, who ministers the Bible to them in such a way that it makes it easy for that counselee to bring their life into conformity with the truth of that Bible. So rather than dispensing truth, we minister truth.

How do you do that? You get them involved. You get them interacting. You get them reading stuff and responding to it and questioning. You talk about opinions. You talk about their likes. You talk about their dislikes. Some of them you can take seriously. Others you don't take seriously. That's not the important thing, but you're interacting with them as a person created in the image of God who should be treated with respect and their problems should be treated with respect.

So you use their involvement in their readings, responding to questions and opinions. Furthermore, you use a lot of encouragement. I think the Apostle Paul, when you read through the epistles, he was an expert at this. Sometimes he could chide people like he does in the book of Galatians, and sometimes he can compliment them for their great faithfulness like he does in 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians.

The Apostle Paul is real good, but when he comes to the truth, he doesn't compromise and he doesn't, in a sense, withhold admonishment. He gives it to them straight, but then he encourages them, he urges them, he pleads with them, he persuades them. All of those are good biblical verbs and that's what we should be doing too.

We're trying to encourage them to follow the truth. And sometimes that's exactly what counselees need. They know it, and they know it's going to be hard to really make the changes that are necessary for their home and their family. And all they need is somebody saying, "Now God has given you the enablement to be able to do this, you just need to go home and do it." Sometimes that encouragement comes in loving admonition, sometimes it comes in the form of rebuke.

Dr. Bob Smith was a physician that I trained under when I first taught my biblical counseling training. I'll never forget, I sat in on a counseling session with him and a young man. This young man was about 25 years of age and in the previous counseling appointment, Bob had given him an assignment to go to his unsaved father and repent of some sins that he had done against his father.

The young man was reluctant to do that, to say the least, because the unsaved father was a volcano. You never knew when he was going to go off. So the kid was somewhat intimidated by the father. But the kid was a Christian, and Bob admonished him, "Listen, you can do this because God will give you an enablement to do it.

You need to go and confess this is a sin before your father, seek his forgiveness, and try to restore whatever relationship you have with your father, you need to do that." And the kid, "All right, all right." So they had prayer, finished the session, he went off. Week later, kid came back in, sat down, they had prayer, and first thing Bob says, "Well, how'd it go with your father?" The kid said, "Well, you know, I did most of my homework, but I didn't do that." And I remember I was sitting at the end of the table, and Bob was on, I was at one end of a long table, and Bob was on the one side, the kid was on the other side, and there was somebody else in our counseling class who was on the other end, and I'm sitting there taking notes, and there was this long silence.

So I'm writing down in my notes, "effective long silence." And suddenly, Bob, if you've ever seen Bob Smith, he has a crew cut, looks like he just walked out of the Marines, stood up and slammed his hand down on the table and leaned across the table and said to the young man, "Young man, you are playing games with God, aren't you?" This young man was a pretty big guy, and I'm thinking, "Oh, my goodness, they're gonna get into a fight right here in the counseling room." And so I'm burying myself in the notes, I'm going, "If this is what counseling is, there's no way I'm ever gonna be a biblical counselor, there's no way I could ever do this." And that young man kind of looked up at him and stared at him for a moment and broke into tears, and he said, "Yeah," he says, "that's what I've been doing." He said, "Your problem is not with your father right now, your problem is with God, and you need to repent before God because you're not willing to do what God wants you to do.

You need to go to your father." Spent the rest of the hour talking about that very thing. Bob even put himself in a role play where he, in a sense, became the kid's father, and he ran him through the worst possible scenario of how his father would respond and help him to understand how he needs to respond to his father.

At the end of the session, that kid was full of all kinds of confidence. He went off, by the next appointment, he came back, and sure enough, he had gone to his father, confessed his sins, asked his father's forgiveness, and to his surprise, his father actually responded with a considerable amount of love.

The kid was shocked, never seen his father react like that before, just in shock. And at that particular point, that kid became a great testimony for Christ in front of that father. But you know what? I thought to myself, after that was all over with, I thought, "You know what, John?

You would have never loved that kid enough to admonish him." That kid needed an admonishment. He was just dragging his feet. I mean, he clearly understood what the Bible said about doing this. He needed to confess the sin before his father and seek his father's forgiveness, and even though his father is an unbeliever and his father will not truly be able to forgive him in a biblical sense, he still needed to do it, and I wouldn't have loved that kid enough to admonish him, but Bob did.

So sometimes that encouragement comes in the form of some direct admonition, not in an unloving way. I'm not talking about being harsh, I'm not talking about being mean, I'm not talking about being hateful with your counselor, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about communicating how serious you are about them following through and obeying what the Bible says.

Sometimes I think we don't do that because we're not serious about it in our own life as counselors, but this is critical. This demonstrates a person who really wants to love their counselees in a biblical way. In fact, I'm going to ask you to grab your Bible just for a moment and let's go back to the book of Proverbs, and I want to go over to Proverbs chapter 24 and I'm interested in verse 23.

These are the sayings of the wise, "To show partiality in judgment is not good." When you are partial to your counselee, you're pandering to their sinful ways. You're not really helping them. And a real counselor will not do that. They will not allow the counselee to walk away without being seriously encouraged to follow the truth.

One other passage. Let's go over to Proverbs 27 and verse 5. "Better," Solomon says, "is open rebuke than love that is concealed. Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy. You've become your counselee's worst enemy if all you do is try to kiss up to them and tell them things that you know that they want to hear." Now more often than not, when you hear encouragement used in counseling, you hear it from the standpoint of a psychologized self-esteem type of encouragement.

"Well, encourage them to have self-confidence, to not feel inferior, da-da-da-da-da." And certainly, there are some people who need more confidence. Not so much in themselves, but confidence in God and trust in God and confidence in the Word of God in order to follow through. They need that. And you're the one who can give that to them.

You can encourage them with that confidence, but you've got to be willing to rebuke them. Better is open rebuke than love that is concealed. In other words, this is love. You are showing love when you're encouraging your counselee to follow and obey God. Let's pick up where we left off there and in there in your notes, make plans and follow an agenda, but be ready to scrap it.

Every counseling appointment you have, it's vitally important that you plan for it. You've heard that old saying, "People who fail to plan, plan to fail." Well, that's true. You got to have a plan. Where are you going to go in the next counseling appointment? In fact, sometimes when we're certifying people for counseling, we have an 11-question thing with each counseling session that they have, and at the end of it, the last question out of those 11 questions is, "What are your future plans for this counseling?" I want to see that enumerated.

What are your plans? Where do you want to go with this? Now, you realize that God can interrupt those with a variety of different things, but at least you have a plan. You have something that you have thought through carefully, and you have a direction where you're going. You can see where the progress is taking place.

You're not just meandering through counseling because that'll communicate to your counselee that there really is no hope and we're not getting anywhere when you don't have a good goal and direction. We already talked about that. But also, be appropriately open and use self-disclosure as well. Self-disclosure is...you've got to be careful with it because it can easily backfire on you.

You don't want to glorify sin, but you can talk about the fact that maybe in your personal life God has helped you to overcome certain problems with the help of Scripture, and that's an encouragement to the counselee, but you don't want to spend a long time dealing with the sin because that's all they'll remember from that counseling session.

We don't want them to remember your sin. We want them to remember the Word of God. That's what we want them to remember. So be appropriately open, use self-disclosure. Keep momentum up by open-ended questions, by stimulating them to analysis. Again, that stresses the importance of being open-ended in your questioning.

Don't give the impression that you're in a hurry. Don't do that. Because that communicates a lack of real hope, or actually, it communicates to your counselee the fact that you really don't care, you just got to get them through this session. Yes? >> You probably had this maybe back in Ohio when you were preaching week after week.

What do you do when people come up to you after service on Sunday morning and they dump the problems of the week on you, and you're kind of in a hurry because you want to talk with people, or there's a line, or whatever, do you just say, "Set up an appointment with me?" >> Yeah.

Yeah. That's what I would do. His question really centered around if you're busy preaching week in and week out at a church, and at the end of a service, people come up to you and want to share a lot of their problems and want you to try to counsel them right after service.

If it's something simple, I'll sit there, or I'll stand there and talk with them a little bit. Sometimes it's going to take a little bit more time. Sometimes I've asked people to step in the office where we could have a little bit more of confidentiality, and we'd sit down and talk about it.

But if I see that this is going to be something that's going to be more lengthy, that they didn't get into this problem overnight and they're not going to get out of it overnight, then it's going to take more intensive work with this couple, then I'll say to them, "Listen, you need to call the secretary this weekend.

Set up an appointment at some point when I'm open, and I'll love to sit down with you if it takes several weeks. It takes several weeks, and we'll work through this problem." But I don't want to give them simplistic, hurried answers in order to just kind of satisfy them temporarily and let them go.

I want to really get at the hard issues, and that's going to take some work. By the way, that's one of the reasons why a lot of pastors don't do counseling, because they realize the work it's going to take, and they're not willing to make that kind of investment in people's lives.

And so they'll use all kinds of excuses. They'll say, "Well, I'm not a counselor." Well, if you're going to be like your savior, then you're going to have to be, because he's called Wonderful Counselor, the Prince of Peace. If you're going to be like him, you're going to be this way.

If you're going to be a shepherd, you've got to be this way. So you've got to be willing to spend time with people and not just give them quick, pat answers. So don't give them an impression you're in a hurry. Be appropriately authoritative and directive. And I love that little passage there in Titus 2:15.

It's kind of tucked in there in Titus, and you have a tendency to think that Timothy was the only one who struggled with timidity, but he's not. Titus struggled with the same thing. Chapter 2 and verse 15 says, "Paul admonishes this young pastor, 'These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority.

Let no one disregard you.'" And the word authority is the word command. Take these things and command people to follow them. Now, we don't like that word in our culture and society today, but it's a good word, to command. Command people to follow them. You've got to follow this because this is what God says.

Now, again, we're not harsh. We're not mean. We're not hateful when we say that. But we certainly communicate that we expect them to obey God. We want them to follow through with the Scripture. So be appropriately authoritative and directive. And then, last of all in this section, allow yourself to identify with and personally experience their pain.

That Romans 12, 15 thing, this is what Jesus did. Hebrews chapter 4 and verse 15, "He is able to sympathize with our weaknesses." And this is an ongoing sympathy. You look at the tense of the verb there, this is something where he is continually able to sympathize with our weaknesses and with our struggles.

He's able to continually do that. So all of that has got to be a part of your instructional skills in working with marriages. Which now brings us to after and between the sessions. After and between the sessions, pray for your counselee. Paul's prayer is a good example of that in Philippians chapter 1, verses 9 through 11.

Pray for them. And you've got to be careful because our human desires to see them relieved from their problems or their pain can easily infiltrate our prayers in a sinful way. And we can begin to pray, "Oh Lord, get them out of this problem. Help them to resolve." No, no, no.

That's a bad prayer. God has them in this problem for a reason. So a better prayer is, "Lord, teach them everything they will need to know as a result of the problems that they're facing in their marriage or in their home or with their children so that they can grow appropriately in Christ.

Teach them everything they need to know." Oftentimes we have a tendency to want to pray for victory. And I understand what people are saying when they want to pray for victory, but I don't like that kind of a prayer because to most Christians that implies total escape from my problems.

Victory means total escape from it. When the problems are really God's tool of sanctifying us. We shouldn't pray for victory, we should pray for faithfulness. We need to pray that they are going to be faithful as they face these problems. These problems may be serious disagreements between a husband and wife or a serious problem with their children and it's not going to be solved overnight.

And God has a lot for them to learn through these. So pray for your counselee. After and between sessions you also need to add important details to your notes. Things that come to your mind. I used to love to counsel with two observers in the counseling room. Sometimes there would be as many as six people in the counseling room.

It would be myself as a counselor, the husband and a wife, and if that husband and wife came in front of the church we would never counsel them from another church unless they brought a leader from the church, a pastor or a deacon or elder with them because our goal was to turn them back underneath the ministry of that church and that church needed to know how to shepherd them.

And by the way that's how we build our counseling training course because those leaders that came in to observe the counseling said, "Hey, where did you learn how to do this?" I'd say, "Well, we taught our counseling course. You can come and learn how to do that," and then they'd take our counseling course.

So there would be the husband and wife and there would be the person from their church and then there would be two observers that would be sitting in the back. They'd be taking notes. So after the counseling session was all over with we'd have a debriefing time with the observers.

And sometimes those observers would pick up on things that I'd totally miss. Maybe my mind was somewhere else or I was looking down at my notes or I was looking up something in the Bible and they'd say to me, "By the way, did you see the way that she looked at him?" I'm going, "No." "What did she do?" "Well, when you made this statement, did you see the scowl that she gave him?" "No." "No, I missed that.

What do you think? Why did she do that?" Well, then they'd give me within context what they think and I'd go, "Oh wow, that's very good. I totally missed that. So I add this to my notes." Those are the kind of things that you end up adding later on in between the sessions as you remember them and it helps you to go back and it helps you to piece these things together.

It's hard to get everything that's coming at you in a counseling session, but you need to be observant as possible with your counselees and try to write down stuff that you know you're going to forget if you don't write it down and then review those notes. D, mentally review the session and prepare for the next one.

What happened in our last session? Now, I'm also supervising another counselor in training right now and this guy is counseling a man who has limited schooling, limited background. He's kind of slow and because of that, the progress in counseling is going to be considerably slower. He doesn't read real well and so I said, "Okay, listen.

Every counseling appointment, when you get somebody like this, every counseling appointment, you've got to review, review, review, review. If you have an hour with this guy, a half hour of that counseling appointment is spent in reviewing. You say to him, "Remember our first appointment where we went over this and this and this?

You remember that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right. Now, we build on that in the second counseling appointment and then we talked about this and this and this and this and this. You understand the reason why we talked about that and you remember what we talked about from the... Oh, yeah, yeah.

Well, grab your Bible. Let's go back there again and we review and we go back, review. Every counseling, when you get a counseling like that, it's a little bit slower, maybe doesn't have the educational background, is slowly picking up on things, then you need to do lots of review.

So you need to do the same thing between counseling sessions. You need to mentally review the session and prepare for the next one so that you can pick up right where you left off so you know where you're going. When they contact you, you need to return phone calls as soon as possible, emails, text messages, same thing, consult, do research.

I mean, there are many times when I've had counseling situations that were real sticky wickets in marriage and family and I've not known where to go. I'm going, "Man, I am really confused. I'm really lost in the details of this." So I call a good friend of mine who is a good pastor or good counselor, I'd say, "Listen, I got to bounce something off of you.

Tell me what you think. Have you ever had anything like this?" And so I'd review the whole thing and he'd say to me, "Oh, yeah, you know, I had some." I said, "Well, what did you do? How did you handle that?" "Well, I handled it this way. I took them over in Scripture to this particular passage and I helped them to understand this and that and the other thing, and I'm going, 'Oh, this is great.

This is great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I need to do.'" So I'm writing down these things. So I'm consulting people who I trust, who is committed with the Word of God and handles it well, and they'll give me ideas and perspectives that I never had before. That's a good thing to do.

You can do that after and between your counseling sessions. I mean, you know how many emails I get. I've been doing this training for many, many years now from former students around the world every week, and they'll ask questions about this or that, and the questions are very simple.

They're only two or three lines, but it would take sometimes a doctoral dissertation to answer them. And I mean, I'd be writing forever, and I'll usually say to them, "Listen, your question implies, in order to answer this adequately, I'd have to write a dissertation. I don't have that kind of time.

I'm going to give you the short answer and give you some sources that you can check on and you can do the rest of the work." So da, da, da, da, da. Here's the direction you need to go. There's the passage you need to deal with, and here's some of the books that will help you with that.

Blessings. All right? So otherwise, all I do, I wouldn't have time to teach or do anything else. I'd just be answering e-mails. Right now, I'm 185 e-mails behind, all right, in my, in e-mailing. Yeah, that's right. Well, your assignment should, half of them should be back in the mail now to you.

So they're half-graded. So not all of them are, but they're half-graded. So all right, then let's talk about analyze and assess. This is part of the inventory and interpretation, which is part of the phases of the eight I's that we talked about earlier. Analyze and assess. How do we do that?

A good counselor will spend time carefully going over the data that they have collected. This is what we often refer to as the interpretational phrase, phase of counseling. You go over the data that you've collected. For example, frequently, we'll use a PDI, which is called a personal data inventory.

Originally, this was created years ago. Jay Adams and some of the people there at CCF created it, and it's in the back of his book, Competent to Counsel, or you can get it in the back of the Theology of Christian Counseling. That's kind of a basic one. A lot of the PDIs with a lot of people have kind of evolved over the years, but it asks just a lot of basic background questions that helps you to get at a lot of data real quickly.

And then there's usually a pink sheet that's attached to that PDI that has four basic questions on it. Number one, why have you come to counseling? What's the problem? Number two, what have you done about that problem so far? What have you done about this problem? Well, I've read some books or I've talked with someone else or I've seen another counselor or I've watched a video or, you know, whatever.

This is what they've done about the problem. The third question they have on that little pink sheet is, what do you expect us to do about the problem? Which tells you their expectations. What do you expect us to do about it? And then the last question has to do with, is there any other information that you can share with us that would help us understand what's going on?

A lot of that has to do with background information to help us have perspective on their particular problem. So that's usually on the little pink sheet, okay, on the PDI. So you have a personal data inventory and before a person comes in, now if I know somebody from my church really well, I don't have them fill out a PDI.

But if I don't know them really well and they're still a member of my church, then I'll have them fill it out. Because I want to try to get to know them the best I can. Then pay attention to communication relationship dynamics. Here's some examples of dynamics to observe.

Who sits where? Boy, that's a key thing. Who sits where? You know, oftentimes I'll have, if you were to go to my office, I have a desk there, on the other side of the desk are two chairs and they're lined up facing me on the other side of the desk.

And a husband and wife will come in for counseling and they'll be so irritated with each other that when they sit down, they actually turn their chairs so that their backs are facing each other. You go, whoa, look at this, all right. He's looking out there, she's looking out there and they usually start off with, will you tell her, will you tell him, type of thing.

So the animosity is so thick you can cut it with a knife in that counseling room. Who sits where? How do they sit? Some are very aggressive and attactive and they'll actually turn their chairs towards their spouse to stare them in the eye. So they're very aggressive. How do people interact?

How do people interact? Is one quiet and the other one talkative? Is one of them constantly making excuses for their behavior? Well, I did this, but you've got to understand the reason why I did this was because he or she, they're constantly making excuses, implied accusations, how do they interact?

Is one person constantly explaining what the other person's saying? Well, what she means by that is, don't you just love it when somebody does that? What he means by that is, and you see the spouse go, what are you doing? I said what I mean. I don't need for you to explain this to the counselor.

Or who withdraws? Who retreats? Who pushes? Who coerces? Who's trying to be manipulative? Or who is ignored? Someone ignored? Maybe it's a kid. Maybe it's a parent who's ignored in the counseling. Who talks the most and who initiates conversations? Who talks most and who initiates? I just love it when you ask a question of one spouse and the other spouse immediately jumps in and answers it.

That tells me a lot about how this marriage really functions. If they're willing to do that now, here in front of me, where they're trying to put on their best behavior, you can imagine this is 10 times worse at home. One person answers for the other person. Who interprets?

Who clarifies? Who corrects? Well let me explain what he's trying to say, she'll say. Who does that? Who speaks for other people? Back several years ago, I had a couple come in for counseling and the presentation problem was that the husband doesn't communicate, he doesn't communicate, okay, face value.

Before the end of the first session, I knew immediately why he didn't communicate because every time he attempted to talk in the counseling session, his wife would always put him down. Well that's stupid, she would say. He doesn't know what he's talking about. You got to understand, that's his perspective, she'd say to me.

Now, every time he opened his mouth, he's put down, then he's not going to say anything. Every time he tried to communicate something, she immediately shut him down, immediately shut him down. And now she's complaining that he doesn't communicate. Well, she's let him know, in no uncertain terms, that what he has to communicate is not valuable, it's not important.

She doesn't care what he says. It's only her opinion that matters in this situation. So he just stopped talking. Now he had his own problems, I don't mean to paint a picture as if she's all wrong and he's all right, no, no, no, that's not it. But before the end of the first session, it was painfully clear what was going on in that marriage and how I needed to work with that particular wife.

How are disagreements handled? Couples fall into certain ruts and patterns on handling things. Some couples like to sweep things under the rug and eventually so much stuff is piled up underneath, they end up tripping over it, but it's swept underneath the rug. Other couples yell and scream at each other and vent all their emotions.

It doesn't solve the problem. It just vents all of their deep emotional issues and the problem is still there. They feel better because they've vented, but now everybody is hurt because they've said mean hateful things to one another. God dishonoring things. Some couples deny that there is a problem when there is.

They'll deny, oh, we don't have a problem. There's no problem there. Everything's fine. Or you'll get a husband or a wife who will do that. There's nothing wrong with a marriage. Usually, by the way, it's the husbands who do that. Now occasionally you'll get a wife to do it, but usually the husband, ah, everything's fine in a marriage, no problem.

The wife is sitting there, no, there's problems. I was just talking in the pastoral counseling class the last hour about a Methodist pastor and his wife who came to me for counseling. They were having some fairly serious marital problems. During one of the counseling sessions, he looked at me in all seriousness and he said to me, "I don't sin anymore.

I make mistakes and sometimes I do things in ignorance, but I don't sin." Well it dawned on me, this guy believes in this Methodist theology. It's a Wesleyan theology that says that once a person's saved, they kind of live the Christian life until they receive the second blessing and that catapults them to a level where they no longer sin any longer.

They can make mistakes, but they don't sin any longer. And it's so funny because I can still, it's like they're sitting in front of me today. I can still see his wife's expression when he said, "I don't sin." She went like this. Her non-verbals were screaming at me, all right, like, "This guy is unbelievable." Of course, I took him over to 1 John 1 where it talks about if we say that we have no sin, then we make him out to be a liar.

That's what you're saying. You don't have any sin. You supposedly have received the second act of grace where you don't, all you do is make mistakes. You don't sin anymore. So you're saying basically your wife is totally responsible for all these marital problems because she's the only one that's sinned.

She's the only one who hasn't received this second act of grace. Boy, that's convenient. That theology will drive a major wedge between a husband and wife. That'll destroy a marriage. How are disagreements handled? This guy basically is saying, "There's no problem on my part. It's all her problem because she hasn't received the second act of grace." So furthermore, does someone have to have the last word?

Does someone have to have the last word? There are some couples that do that. They've just got to have their opinion out there on the table as the last word no matter what when a problem arises. Who's really in charge? Another way to ask that question, who wears the pants in the family?

Who is really in charge of the home? Now that's a ridiculous question if you believe in egalitarianism, then you're both in charge. If you believe in egalitarianism, then it's like a plane that has two pilots. Not a pilot and co-pilot, but two pilots. That's the way a lot of marriages function today under an egalitarian view.

Mom and dad are struggling for the control of the plane. So the plane is going like this because she wants it to go one direction and he wants it to go another direction and so the plane is all over the place and the kids are in the back being bounced off the ceiling.

That's the picture of a lot of homes. Who's in charge? Are there subtle or overt power struggles going on in the home? Some of them are very subtle power struggles. Who has the most clout in the home? How does the controlling person maintain control? What do they do? Is it with the checkbook?

Is it through sexuality? Is it through threats? They'll tell somebody, they'll tell the pastor, they'll tell the relatives. How do they maintain control? What's going on? How do they do that? What's happening there? Do they maintain control, this is a very common way, by threatening to leave? There's always that threat on the table, I'll leave you if you do that, then you're going to find me out of here.

That's their way of maintaining control. Very coercive, very manipulative. When tense issues arise, how does each person react to those problems? How do they deal with it? Who seems most concerned or upset when a problem arises? Who does or doesn't pay attention when someone speaks? Do they ignore each other?

Do they listen past each other? It's very easy to do, you know. A husband and wife have been married for several years, sometimes will listen past each other. They anticipate what their spouse is going to say because they lived with them so long, they really think they have a pretty good idea.

Who does or doesn't pay attention when somebody speaks? Do they really hear words or meanings? Do they understand each other? And sometimes a husband or wife will read meanings into words that were not intended, which just makes the problem worse. They will imply meanings or motivations behind words that were never intended.

Do some issues get sidetracked? How do they get sidetracked? Whose issues get sidetracked? And what roles do each of the family members have? Are they biblical roles in the family and in the relationship? All of these issues are important at getting the right kind of data and interpreting it.

I think a good counselor who is somewhat like Sherlock Holmes, he's always asking or she's always asking lots of questions, maybe not to the counselee, but to themselves. What about this? What about this? What about that? Every time I review the notes that I've taken in counseling, I'm always asking myself a lot of questions.

Why did they say that and why did they say that that way? What could they have said that would have been better at this particular point? What's going on in their mind, in their thinking, in their desires, in their expectations that would cause them to react the way that they did?

To the point where you really get to know your counselee and you can anticipate what they're going to do in a certain situation. They may not like you as a counselor, but you can actually say to them, "You know what? I'll bet if this happened, this is the way in which you would respond to it," and they say, "You're right.

That's exactly it. How did you know that? In fact, that happened before," they'll say, "and this is the way I responded." How do you know that because you've asked yourself a lot of questions, you've in a sense crawled into their mind, and you're looking at life through their eyes, their perspective.

Everything they do and everything they say speaks to their perspective of life and their view of their marriage. Everything they do and everything they say reveals what they think about life and their marriage. Ask appropriate questions and listen very carefully, not just to what they say, but how they say it.

Here's some questions from a problem-centered approach. These are great questions. In fact, I'll use these frequently. As you see it, what are some of the problems hindering your marriage and family relationships? What do you see as ways that you have contributed to the problems in the marriage or family?

That's a very open-ended question, isn't it? Boy, they can bring in anything, anything. What are some of the problems hindering your marriage or family relationships? Usually they're going to talk about the things that most concern them first. Now, how have you contributed to those problems? Now, that's a little bit tougher, because the Bible tells us that we always view the past in such self-favoring ways.

Grab your Bible just for a moment and go over to Proverbs 16 in verse 2. All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, but the Lord weighs the motives. A very similar statement is made in Proverbs 21 in verse 2. Every man's way is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart.

Now, you're not in marriage and family counseling very long before you realize that people look at the past in such self-justifying ways. They can go into great detail and talk about, in technicolor, all the wrongs that their spouse or other people in the family have done against them. They can do that.

But then when you ask them the question, "What have you done that was wrong in the past? How did you contribute to these problems?" All of a sudden they get a glazed look in their eye, and they kind of stare off, and they say, "Well, you know, I know I didn't always respond the right way, but you don't understand what they did to me," and all of a sudden we're right back into that mode.

So we always see ourselves in a victim role. I have been victimized by my wife. I have been victimized by my husband. I have been victimized by my children. I have been victimized by my parents. I have been victimized by -- you fill in the blank. That's the way that they view things.

So you're trying to get them to open up and own responsibility for their own feelings and action in the past. The number two, what do you see as things that you'd like to change in your relationship or in yourself? And again, we started off about in the relationship, and, you know, that particular question will easily get twisted into, "What are the things that I'd like to see changed in my husband or my wife?" That's what usually happens.

"What do I want to see changed in him or her?" Well, that's the wrong reason for coming to counseling. Wrong agenda. No, no, no. You can't change him or her. In fact, you know what, sometimes I'll say to them, "Now, how long have you guys been married?" "Well, we've been married for 15 years," they'll say.

"Have you been trying to change your spouse over these 15 years?" "Oh, yes. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah." "This is what you really wanted for them to change, isn't it?" "Oh, yes. Uh-huh. That's exactly right." "Have you been successful over these 15 years?" "No. No. Are you kidding me? Not a bit successful." "Well, then," I say to them, "Don't expect me to be successful on that either." I'm not going to.

You've tried this for 15 years, and you can't do it, right? So I can't do it. But we can do one thing. We can change you. And you've got to be willing to change. So are you ready to change? Well, now that's the right agenda for coming to counseling.

I've got to come to counseling to help me learn how to be a better husband, a better wife, a better mother, a better father, a better child, a better parent. That's why I'm coming to counseling. My coming to counseling is not to get my husband, wife, or my children to change or my parents to change.

That's not my reason for coming to counseling. So what things do you see you'd like to change in your relationship? And don't forget to add in yourself. Number three, if you could change anything that you did and said, what would it be? Do you have any regrets that are a part of your past?

Things that you remember that you did that were wrong, words that you said, deeds and actions you performed that were wrong, hurtful, mean, that constituted a lie? What is it? If you could change anything that you did or you said, what would it be? Get them to open up about it.

Now they're usually really detailed about what they want their spouse to change. They know that. I mean, they can give you a doctoral dissertation on that one. Boy, it's really hard for them to list. In fact, that's a good homework assignment. I'm going to send it home. I want you to list 20 things you'd like to make right about your past with your spouse.

20 things. That is so hard. Man, if they make it past three, they're really doing great. You could change anything. Number four, when you got married, what expectations did you have for marriage? This is to tell you what they were really hoping for. What were your spouse's expectations, which were fulfilled?

How did you make your expectations known to your spouse? What effect could unfulfilled expectations have on your marriage? Most couples, they'll talk with you prior to marriage, "Oh, we have the best communication. He understands me. She really knows me. We really love each other." After marriage, "That man doesn't understand me.

He doesn't know me. She ignores me." What effect could unfulfilled expectations have on your marriage? Most couples have not talked about their expectations, or they've not been genuine about them. For one reason or another, they've not really laid all their cards on the table, so to speak, but they have certain very definite expectations.

They've not told their spouse about them, they're hidden, and they're just waiting. I don't know whether they're afraid that if they tell them, then their spouse will just do it in order to please them, and it won't be genuine. There are all kinds of excuses that could go one way or another here or there.

But they've not been very open about their expectations. If I were to ask you to list your spouse's expectations when they came into marriage with you, what would you say? What were their expectations? They want to get married and have kids. I guess that's it. Oh, that we go to church together, and we study the Bible, and we make enough money to live, and beyond that, I don't know.

Wow, those are all performance things. My bet is that your spouse expected you to love you, or for you to love them with lots and lots of mercy and grace. Lots and lots of mercy. Now, they maybe didn't say that, but that was their expectation. Which gets us over to Matthew 7, 1 through 5 issue.

Don't judge unless you be judged. Why as you go around trying to pick the speck out of your brother's eye, when all along you have a log hanging out of your eye, listen to the hyperbole of Jesus in that. Imagine people walking around with logs hanging out of their eye.

That's hyperbole. The word speck there in the Greek is the word that actually, I think, it's very hard to track down, but I actually think it means, sometimes it's translated splinter, but that's a bad translation. It means like a floaty. Have you ever gotten a piece of dust in your eye and been able to see it float across your eye?

What if I came to you and I said, "Hey, listen, I want to pick that little floaty out of your eye." "Hold on just a second, Stephen. Let me get that thing." You'd say, "Whoa, get away from me." All along I've got this log hanging out of my eye, all right?

You'd say, "What is this guy, nuts?" You'd get rid of the log in your own eye. In other words, we're really great at defining what other people need to do in a very refined way, but we're very, very generous with our own selves. And Jesus says, "Don't judge others with a standard that you first don't use upon yourself.

Then you can judge other people." In other words, you use a more refined judgment upon yourself than you do on other people, and then you're qualified to judge. So ask appropriate questions. Listen for them carefully. As you consider marriage, what is your degree of commitment or your spouse's degree of commitment?

As you consider marriage, what is your degree of commitment to this? Most Christians go, "Oh, well, we have a high view of marriage." Well, I've never met one couple yet that their view of marriage didn't need to be elevated because God's view, wherever they consider to be their view of marriage, however high it may be, God's view is always somehow much higher.

Do you believe that your problems can be solved? How much hope do you have? Do you think that's possible? Can your problems be solved? How much hope do you have? I love this because when you ask this question, grab your Bible and let's go over to Proverbs chapter 15, Proverbs, not Proverbs, I've been there too much, Romans chapter 15.

I said Proverbs and I'm going over to Romans here, Romans chapter 15, verse 4, "For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction so that through perseverance," that is a faithful keeping of the word, "and the encouragement of Scripture, we might have hope." There's two ingredients for hope here.

One is persevering and obedience. That's what gives hope. And the other is the encouragement of Scripture through the promises of Scripture. If we're faithful to God, then God is also faithful to us. We can trust him. As that's the case, our hope builds and that's key for a marriage that is hopeless.

In fact, a little bit later on, same particular chapter, verse 13, Romans 15, 13, "Now may the God of hope," that's the way our God is described, "fill you with all joy and peace and believing so that you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit." As you face problems and difficulties, our God is considered a God of hope.

Number seven, how happy are you with your marriage? How happy are you with marriage? On a scale of 1 to 10, what would you, 10 being absolutely overwhelmed and overjoyed, 1 being this is a miserable existence, what rate would you give your marriage, 1 to 10? Why would you give them that number?

Number eight, if you could change anything about yourself, your marriage, spouse, kids, and know for sure that God would give you the resources to make the change, what would you choose to change? What would your spouse choose to change? What would you choose to change and what would your spouse choose to change?

And how are the differences important here? Something that you would want to change about your marriage. I'd have more kids, less kids. I want my husband to change. I want my wife to change. Whatever, fill in the blank. As God views your life, number nine, marriage, what do you think He wants continued and what does He want changed?

As God views it, what does He want you to continue? That which is good, because every Christian marriage at some degree or another has some goodness in it, if it's nothing other than the fact that they say that they are committed to Jesus Christ. So, we're going to start there.

Has some kind of goodness in it, not that it's innate to the couple, but because of what God has done in that marriage. So, we can start there. So, what does God want to continue in your marriage that's good and then what does He want changed? Just five things that would make your marriage better.

What would make your marriage better? Number ten, what do you want from your marriage and what will it take to get it there? What do you want from your marriage and what will it take to get it there? This really defines their hope. It defines what they're looking for, expecting in the future.

Sometimes their expectations are in line with what God would want and sometimes their expectations are not in line with what God would want. Sometimes they can come across with expectations that sound really biblical, but when you nail down the specifics of it, you find out it's not biblical. So what do you want from your marriage and what will it take to get it there?

Number twelve, in what ways have you changed your way of relating to your spouse since you were first engaged or since your first few months of marriage and how has your spouse changed? Have you changed the way that you relate to your spouse? In what ways have you changed?

Are you kinder? Are you gentler? Are you more caring? Are you more patient? Are you more loving? Do you express your love and in what ways do you express your love? Number thirteen, what would it be like to be married to someone just like you? Would you like it?

That's a great question, isn't it? What would it be like if you were married to you? I think you'd have even more problems. If you were married to you, you'd really be stumbling around. Number fourteen, what must happen for you to be satisfied with your marriage? What's really going to make you satisfied?

What's really going to make you happy? If you were able to establish that, then you'll usually find out the core of their problem. Number fifteen, what are you willing to do to improve your marriage relationship? How far are you willing to go? And a follow-up to this particular question that I'd love to ask is, are you willing to go as far as personally changing?

I knew this was going to be hard. Are you willing to go as far as personally changing? Number sixteen, if talking to someone who knew nothing about marriage, how would you explain it to that person? Now that's a great question, too. It kind of steps back, asks them to reflect upon, which helps you to understand what kind of attitudes they formed about marriage.

Couples that have had problems, chronic problems over years have formed negative, pessimistic, dark views of marriage. Oh, it's hard. It's difficult. This is drudgery. It's constant conflict. There's arguing. And then there are others who will say, well, you know, marriage requires work, but it's a good kind of work because, you know, my wife is God's main tool of sanctification in my life.

She's changing me through her. And I must be God's main tool of sanctification in her life as well. If talking to someone who knew nothing about marriage, how would you explain it to that person? Number seventeen, as you view marriage, what are seven or eight important elements that make a marriage what it ought to be?

What would you like to strengthen? How do you think that these elements could be strengthened? What ought it be? That's a critical question. I think it's a critical question. I think it's a critical question. I think it's a critical question. I think it's a critical question. I think it's a critical question.

I think it's a critical question. I think it's a critical question. I think it's a critical question. I think it's a critical question. I think it's a critical question.