Jamal do you hear that Friberg got busted looking at porn in his computer? You know what it was yeah I think he was pleasuring himself to that Skin flu You have to go for a quick game of pocket pool. How's your oh my god? It's too exciting you were beating the bishop Allison came in and just like wondering what was going on She grabbed my computer as you looked at it, and it was an essay All right before we get to doge we got a little housekeeping little housey housekeeping, you know We're getting into the holiday spirit here.

It's episode 205. We're in year four and we're having a Christmas party It's gonna be great. The all-in holiday Spectacular is happening in San Francisco on Saturday December 7th, I think the VIP sold out there's still some tickets left go to all in comm slash events and If you can't make it to San Francisco, I think you can buy a ticket for $50 on On the zoom.

I think we're gonna have it on zoom. Is that right? I might do I have my facts straight there free berg Yeah, there's gonna be a live stream Thanks to zoom for setting this up for us. It's kind of interesting They're doing this thing where you could you kind of you know get access to live events So they're helping us get this set up.

You want to watch the stream live on zoom anything's possible It could be spicy Through that. All right Listen best eat you on and bestie Vivek wrote an op-ed a barnburner in the Wall Street Journal about doge the Department of Government efficiency and they laid it out They want to cut overbearing and unnecessary regulation Obviously, they want to cut unnecessary administrative roles save taxpayers money.

They want to run it by founders non-politicians helping The Trump transition team find a way to hire quote a lean team of small government Crusaders Teams gonna work closely with the White House Office of Management and Budget. Here's the plan first a game at 500 billion in annual federal expenditures that are unauthorized by Congress then fix the government's procurement process by conducting massive audits during Temporary payment suspensions.

This is an interesting playbook that Elon has done before so basically Suspend all the payments and hey, let everybody Audit those payments drive change through executive action based on existing Legislation rather than passing new laws and to SCOTUS rulings are gonna play a major role here West Virginia versus EPA That's when SCOTUS rule that federal agencies can't impose regulations dealing with major economic or policy questions unless Congress Authorizes them to do so and looper bright versus Raimondo That's from 2024 and that overturned the Chevron doctrine.

We talked about that on a previous episode So according to Doge when combined Quote these cases suggest that a plethora of current federal regulations exceed the authority Congress has granted under the law Doge will use software and legal experts to create a list of regulations that Trump can immediately pause they're gonna make some sort of a leaderboard Elon said and The vague said he would do he suspended his existing podcast I didn't know he had a podcast but he's doing a dogecast a doge podcast and so Freeberg this has been you know a major issue for you.

You've been talking about on this podcast that the unsustainable Existential issue for our country is all of the debt we have What are the chances? That this is going to occur because obviously we all know the machine is going to fight to preserve the machine chances that we are sitting here in four years and we've seen meaningful cuts in Spending and a meaningful reduction in size of the government Look, it's doge has probably 18 months to do What they can do before the midterms and there's gonna be an inevitable amount of recoil and backlash that's gonna arise from The actions that they're gonna try and take and President Trump's gonna try and take Under the recommendations provided by doge So they need to move fast and aggressively and that's only gonna cause the recoil to be harder and faster There's gonna be a ton of litigation.

Obviously, everything's gonna go to court. It's gonna be Incredibly politicized what is frustrating and challenging to me is that there is nothing that they said that doesn't seem obvious and right I don't know how you can politicize the points that they're making put aside their party put aside who they are Individually put aside how we got here at the end of the day This federal government needs to be run more efficiently more effectively It is unfair and it is a tax on every one of us to have money thrown away To have wasted capital to have bureaucracy that gets in the way of people being able to do their jobs It is a tax on all of us and our kids and our future It needs to be fixed if it doesn't get fixed as I've said countless times before we are in an arithmetic debt death spiral There is no way out of it.

So by resolving both the inefficiency Reducing the bureaucracy stopping the wasteful spending having accountability in the org in the government. We can actually get the United States another 50 years a hundred years, whatever long we want, but we were literally in a death spiral leading up to this moment And I have no idea how we ended up on this timeline I was over the moon and shocked when I read all of the progress over the last couple of weeks and putting this thing together I did not know that this is where we were end up I couldn't be more happy with what I think is gonna happen with doge and its effect on If not actually making the changes shining a light on the issues that need to be addressed and I will say it is unfair To Americans for this to be politicized the Democrats shouldn't make this a Republican issue This is not about Republicans doing damage this is about doing the right thing for the government for the country and the Democrats had an opportunity to own this issue and Instead they've chosen to oppose it which makes no sense It is frustrating and challenging to me as an American to think that this is even a political point This should be a what's right for America point It's almost like we're going to war war with ourselves with our bureaucracy with the morass That's been built up over the last couple of decades and I'm thrilled that this is happening and frankly put the put the people aside Maybe it's the fact that you need people that are as outspoken as challenging as difficult as these two particular individuals They're gonna run this group But that might be what it takes for it to happen in the small 18-month window that they have So that's my rant on it.

Yeah great rant and we had a Milton Friedman clip go viral And he spoke exactly about his positions on what he would eliminate Departments like agriculture commerce education. Let's just play that clip. And then there was obviously Malay interview by Lex Friedman earlier this week keep them or abolish them Department of Agriculture abolish gone me Department of Commerce Abolish gone Department of Defense.

Keep keep it Department of Education gone energy Abolish health and Human Services. There is room for some public health activities to prevent The contagion will eliminate half of the Department of Health. Okay one half. There we go housing and urban development Done that's gone Department of the Interior. The problem there is You first have to sell off all the land that the government owns, but that's what you should do Department of Justice.

Oh, yes, keep that keep that one labor. No gone state Keep keep it transportation gone gone the Treasury You have to keep it to collect taxes. All right collect taxes through the Treasury Sachs. You see that clip you see the activity going on with Doge Would you think that the machine will allow what Milton Friedman is describing there what Javier Malay is doing in Argentina and what?

Elon is proposing with Doge. Do you think the machine is going to allow? You know the wholesale deleting of Department of Agriculture Department of Education at a federal level and move all that stuff to the states What do you think's gonna happen here? And how hard will the machine fight back against this in your mind because hey You might have some Republicans some Democrats.

They fought really hard to get jobs to get Subsidies to put in factories, whatever from the federal government. Are they gonna just give that all back? The clip is from 1998 by the way sacks your thoughts Well that Milton Friedman clip as great as it is. I mean it really is outstanding is Setting expectations a little bit too high here I mean, we're not gonna be able to wipe out entire major departments of the government that are cabinet level positions I don't think that's in the cards You know what Milton Friedman's basically describing is a night watchman state and I don't think we're gonna get back to that however, if you look right now at the Opinions on the legacy media MSDN see it and all that kind of stuff They are forecasting that Doge is gonna amount to nothing They're basically saying that the powers that be in Washington are gonna reject it completely There's somehow gonna be a falling out between Elon and DJT.

They're just very cynical DJT and then you have people who are not necessarily dismissive in that way in The media but just kind of longtime Washington insiders who feel like they've seen it all before nothing ever happens And so they're just very jaded and cynical So I would say that you know again, I wouldn't have the expectations of the Milton Friedman level But I think that the expectations for Doge right now are being set incredibly low By the media and by the Washington insiders and I think there are good reasons to believe that the results will surpass those those low expectations number one is you've got Elon Musk running this thing with the vague and Elon understands better than anybody the impact of Deleterious regulations on business so he can really put a microscope on that he's got the largest speech platform in the world with X the largest account on X and he's also built a Get out the vote operation That he funded in the last election that he's promised to keep around and potentially expand So his influence hopefully is not going anywhere.

He's gonna be able to keep using that to help Keep politicians outside. You're right. Yeah So that's number one is no one's ever made money betting against Elon Musk and I don't expect that to start right now Number two is you got Vivek who is co-head with? Elon of this thing and I think he's a perfect partner for Elon because Vivek first of all He's a brilliant guy with a lot of success in business, but he's also a Harvard trained lawyer He's a brilliant legal mind and I think you could see in that op-ed I suspect the parts that were citing all those from court decisions were his influence and so they figured out a legal Roadmap here.

It's not just a matter of kind of Going to Congress and hoping Congress acts. They've got a way here Sequentially to do this through the executive branch through executive orders going through the court system They've kind of got a game plan here. That's not entirely reliant on legislation. So I think the Vicks Influence and and sort of Legal strategic mind is a is a big asset here And then I think the third reason to be optimistic is just the fact that this was printed on The Wall Street Journal op-ed page is suggested in and of itself what this shows is that This Doge effort is I think uniting both the kind of populist reformers and the establishment types within the party if Elon and The vague we're trying to get a mandate for no more forever war.

I don't think the Wall Street Journal Yeah, I was doing that right just would not happen So there are reasons to believe that this will not actually divide the party that the party Yeah, could be yeah now look every congressman and every senator is still gonna advocate For their pork barrel project in their district or their state and it's gonna be very hard to push back on that however you could imagine a process like we have with the base closure Commission when the United States needs to close a bunch of military bases and they created a Outside Commission to recommend the cuts and everyone kind of shared the pain equally maybe Doge could somehow Play into the horse trade a little bit.

Yeah, so I'm not saying it's gonna be perfect, but I do think that if Republicans Share a principle across again both these establishment and the populist side. It would be in reducing unnecessary regulation and the number of Regulators needed the number of government employees needed to enforce all those regulations So I'm hopeful that they'll be able to get something done within the party and since the Republicans have the trifecta if they've got Trump's leadership and they've got the leadership of the Senate and House backing it.

I think they'll be able to get something done again It's not gonna be it's not gonna be Milton Friedman level, but I'm optimistic. They'll get something good and important done I think the easiest thing for them to get done with Doge is the naming the shaming the auditing the Transparency of what we're actually spending because so many of the audits Chamath are just not Completed people don't know what's being spent and if you show Americans a twelve thousand dollar hammer Or people with job titles not coming into the office or coming into the office one day a week one day a month That's gonna infuriate taxpayers and I think there's a very easy way to navigate all this You just create the leaderboard and you not only shame people who are wasting our tax dollars You celebrate the people who are heroes who start showing frugality and cost-saving and they're gonna do this with the leaderboard of the heroes And the goats this could be the unifying not just the Republican Party as a sax is pointing out Chamath I think this could unify the whole country Is there anybody paying taxes that wants to see money wasted that wants to see us pay people high salaries to not come to work?

Chamath what's your take on the sequence of events here? What are easy layups that they could actually get done and then where is the machine gonna fight and try to stop this name? I? think you are highlighting something that they can do right away, which I think is very powerful, which is just using these distribution channels that Elon has now to create a massive layer of Accountability.

I do think that sunshine is a really incredible Disinfectant, I think the best way that they could start if possible is to stop paying Their vendors until you actually have some amount of accounting to figure out as you said, how many? $600 soap dispensers are actually being bought and sold now That kind of whatever you want to call that corruption or grift It's not going to account for hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars But I do think that it is a very moral and symbolic win That says we're going we're going to start to get much more rational and it starts to allow the average American to actually feel like they have a little bit of control and they have a more vested interest in How the government spends money, but I want to actually want to take a step back for a second And before I talk about what doge can do I just want to highlight something that's been going on in California because I think it explains a lot in California and I'm just gonna read this that because it's incredible the regulatory burden in California as a state From 1997 to 2015.

This is when the data is available that I found has increased by almost 50% as of May of 2022 There are almost 61 thousand individual regulations in the state of California So what does that mean and where does it come from and Nick if you can just put out the tweet it has happened over a period of time in Which the government has been the absolute?

Singular source of employment in the state and we talked about this before where this is also a problem at the federal level when you look at GDP and job growth because it Looks like a lot of these jobs are actually fake Manufactured government type jobs. So why is this a problem you've seen in California?

The issue that we have is that if you have a Growth in the number of employees in this case in California all the job growth in recent memory Has been state employees. What is the byproduct? Regulations go up. What is the byproduct of that? There are actually no private sector jobs and more to the point the private sector fleas So now let's bubble that up and look at the federal government Nick if you want to just show that chart that I that I sent you What is incredible J Cal is that the more people are hired by the government?

Lo and behold, what do you see the number of regulations issued by federal agencies has just continued Unabated year-in year-out. You cannot run a country like this So because the Accumulate right Congress is doing less and less of a job actually trying to frame how the country should work That white space is filled in as Freeberg said by these federal agencies it Compounds and accumulates.

This is not replacing laws. None of these regulations have expiry dates And so as a result, I think what you probably have is an incredible restraint on the u.s Economy, I think that the u.s. Economy could be growing at four or five percent But the reason that it doesn't grow at four or five percent is in that one single chart It is impossible to be able to live up to your economic potential when you have this burden on Your neck.

So I think the real opportunity for Doge is to basically do whatever it needs to do using the law To wipe as many of these regulations off the books. We are better Cutting them all to zero and then finding the ones we really need and then repassing those Then we are going at this piecemeal and there's some incredible.

There's some incredible ideas by the way that this creates Nick, I don't know if you can find this tweet, but Doge asked what people think of the IRS and There was an enormous amount of activity that essentially said give us a flat tax and wipe out the tax code The people were very flexible in the amount of tax that they were willing to pay But could you imagine the simplification in the tax code and the implications of that?

I was in Singapore by the way ten days ago when I started my trip Nick beep out the name of the person I'm about to say, but I had a long meeting with who you know is there and I was asking him the complexity of Dealing with taxes. He's like, what do you mean?

We don't we pay a very simple tax system There's no capital gains in Singapore. And so as a result our filing requirements are de minimis the small But as a result people like him meaning great entrepreneurs Can spend all their time thinking about what to build not not a tax optimization Exactly or not or how to account for it.

So could you imagine if these guys basically use doge as a mechanism to? Shrink the tax code create a flat tax potentially. I know that that has to be passed by Congress. I understand that But the idea of just cutting this all the way down and then finding through that process what you actually need I think can find America a hundred two hundred basis points of GDP growth.

It could be an economic renaissance I mean just to build on that cutting all the regulations to zero you might Have throw out some babies in the bath water. So why not put a clock on them and just say whenever this was enacted Plus five years and then it rolls off or plus two years whatever number of months and then you could have them come off Rolling off every month.

I think that's a good idea, but it has no quarterly I think that's a good idea. But Jake, I think you first have to cancel all these regulations and then say whatever we need We will reenact Your point on a five-year shot clock that then has to be renewed in a new congressional period and I think that that's extremely healthy Well, because you know what people die paradigms shift and then nobody even remembers these regulations You have to do archaeology to figure out who created this What was the intent and you would never do that?

You would never live sacks with all of these rules forever It's just one last comment in fairness to these government employees The one thing is that it's not their fault right meaning in the sense that they were hired into a regime Where the incentive was to regulate so that you had things to oversee and so they did their job In fact, I would say they did their job incredibly well But the point is that now we need to pivot for them to do a totally different job.

Well Jamaa I'll hand this over to free free break free break if you Were to get rid of regulations as somebody working in the government you might work your way out of a job so the incentive is completely perverse and Reverse to what we actually need in the country which is less regulation more thoughtful regulation and some process by taking these things on and off the books and Adapting them to reality.

Yeah, this is where I think I Think we've talked about this many too many times in the past But like all organizations have a natural tendency to grow they want to grow they're not yes like find me one nonprofit or find me one University or find me one company or One government agency that's ever said my job is to shrink myself.

It's never happened. So why does that happen? Well, if you look at the like day-to-day Operating role of each individual over time like all individuals. They want to do more. They want to have a bigger impact They want to have more scale. They want to have more leverage So there's this natural set of incentives that drives a lot of choices and operating procedures on the ground That create more structure more scale more leverage and drive more hiring Everyone wants to become a manager of people they don't want to just be doing the same IC job forever individual contributor job forever So if they want to be a manager, they got to find more stuff to do and then they got to hire people to do That stuff so all of these organizations whether again and we've all been on boards of nonprofits I'm sure and we've all been involved in this sort of thing there's always this like Incentive to raise more capital to hire more people to do more stuff that sort of it's really unclear until you really dig into the Psychology of each individual person working there why this is happening I don't think that the federal government is any different each of these people feel they want to be more important They want to have a bigger role.

They want to have a bigger impact If your job direct directionally is to regulate then what's the scaler on regulation more regulation? So therefore to do more you have to regulate more There's no regulator that says I want to regulate less over time because we've created a system that's one directional So you have to have these resets if you don't have them naturally they're gonna happen unnaturally in the form of social unrest and breakdowns of the economy and Collapse of social structures all these other things that happen way way down or as Chamath is pointing out in California in the economic structure of California Which I think is happening on a kind of national scale because of the outsized role the federal government plays In our national economy here today.

So so you have to have these unnatural forces come in and and do this readjustment from time to time otherwise it's just gonna break on its own and Millet in Argentina has basically I don't know a year or an 18 month head start on us and has been doing this He did a great podcast with Lex Friedman They translated it.

Actually, they dubbed it which is kind of interesting technology and in This discussion they talked about reducing the ministry's agencies from 20 to 8 They fired 50,000 government workers 15% of the total workforce There were three hundred forty one thousand when he started they implemented daily Deregulation process to remove inefficient policies.

So they just do that day in and day out They ended discretionary payments to provinces and cities the restored market-driven utility prices. No more subsidies Yada-yada-yada right down the line sacks your thoughts on How many months it will take to do this and there's this this discussion and I don't know if that's from inside The Trump administration of hey, we got to get this done in 18 months.

We got to get this done in 18 months What can you tell us about the the sense of urgency? about getting this done quickly and Why that's occurring well, I think Elon and Vivek have announced that doge will be sunsetting or disbanding at the 250th anniversary of America, which would be July 4th of 1926 so they've only given themselves about what's at 18 months.

Yep, which kind of makes sense, right? That's leading into the midterms, right? Right exactly you tend to have the most Momentum coming off an election like this one where you have the trifecta So I think that makes a lot of sense that they're gonna be able to have the greatest impact Let's say in the first year after the new President Congress gets sworn in.

How do you get Democrats in on the sacks? How do you push them to join the party to join the movement to be more efficient to be more transparent? Is there a possibility for us to get some? Coordination here with the other side or no Maybe you might be able to get some support of particular Democrats on particular things.

I don't want to say that it's not possible Difficult but not not impossible But look, I think what melee has done in Argentina is Remarkable. I mean that was a country. That was a total basket case inflation was out of control It's already because of the cuts he's made they now have a more normal inflation rate and they've gone from basically being Uninvestable to investable as a country now The United States is not the basket case that Argentina is but we are on an unsustainable Fiscal trajectory doge is also not going to have the power that melee has not gonna have the degrees of freedom to act But we also don't have as big a problem what we need to do is just bend our fiscal curve from being unsustainable to being sustainable and If we can do that, it'll have a huge impact on the economy Specifically what we saw in the last election the thing that probably hurt the Democrats the most was inflation Voters clearly do not like inflation.

They do not like the diminishment of their purchasing power But how do you stop inflation you have to raise interest rates? and that's not good either because that raises the cost of a mortgage that raises the cost of a car payment is bad for Investment right because if interest rates are higher then that means the discount rate on stocks and real estate on every investment class basically is higher and The hurdle rate for investments higher so high interest rates are also bad for the economy So how do you get out of that box where you either have high inflation or high interest rates?

The only way is to bend the fiscal curve to that more sustainable path And if you can and if you can do that, the bond markets will actually give you credit for it in advance Because they know that because they know that they're not gonna be flooded With the need to keep funding all of this US government debt So we either get to kind of you know startups have this saying about being either default alive or default dead We either get to default sustainable or default unsustainable right now We're unsustainable the bond markets know it inflation remains persistently high around 3% The Fed has not been able to cut interest rates the way that they expected to remember the markets were expecting 7 cuts this year.

We got basically 3 we got a 50 and a 25 So it's just hasn't been the cuts that people were expecting and that's because inflation hasn't come down as much to a thought So if doge working with the rest of the government OMB the Treasury Congress executive orders can now convince the markets that the US financial picture is more sustainable We'll get credit for that interest rates will come down and that'll lead to a boom in the economy So it's all win-win if they can pull this off Pre break any final thoughts here before we move on from doge wishing you on and Vivek as much success as possible We've really I mean everybody should be rooting for this.

You want to give us your final thoughts? I Feel like America is Neo from the Matrix where there was like a thousand bullets being shot at America and We like literally had to dodge every single one of them in order to get to this this point Mmm, I again I am so shocked and surprised in a positive way That we ended up on this particular timeline look everything had to go the way it went for this to have happened Biden decided to run for Re-election Biden stayed in too long.

They didn't run a primary. They put Kamala in Ilan all the fences which party won Ilan decided to throw a hundred million bucks at the problem. Ilan bought Twitter China had a real estate bubble I mean you can go down the list of things that had to go right for us to get to this very moment Where a small group of people have recognized the fiscal death spiral that the United States federal government has been in and have the authority and The capacity and the skills to be able to go and execute against a solution.

I Have no idea how this could have been architected Maybe Saxon you all along and I convinced him two years ago that this was how things had to go and he's been designing it Like maybe you're talking about raid on the end of the Empire for three years Maybe we did it free bird.

We give you credit when we talk with Dahlia about this. He's like, I've been a handful and also around The the relationship with China, which I think this is all very tightly related We may have dodged a lot of bullets Hmm and if the United States can get its house in order reduce federal spending while increasing economic activity It can be a tremendous unlock for the u.s.

And for world peace So because again, I think that conflict arises when we don't have our own fiscal house in order And so I feel very positive more more surprised and positive than I was a year ago six months ago It's just amazing. We're on this timeline and I do think the United States as neo dodged a lot of bullets here I told you everything was proceeding as I had foreseen You know what happened to the ten-year and Elon and Vivek wrote that essay I don't actually don't what happened yields contracted by five basis points.

You know what the value of that is Couple billion 15 billion per year. Yeah. Yeah, so so I think that it was probably a hundred billion dollar essay Just writing it. I think you will find that this doge is quite operational I Mean, I think it's got a chance.

I mean Right, I want I want all I want all Americans and Democrats to stand up and say this is the right thing for the United States Essay saved us a hundred billion just the essay They're gonna have to be very strategic true about how they detailed what they're doing The the doge teams is gonna have to be very strategic to pick things that are consensus building That don't make people feel like this is gonna grind the poor more and make the rich richer.

That's the expectation That's gonna be the negative framing on this I predict which is just a bunch of rich guys making cuts Talking their books making cuts for things that are their pet projects their investments They have to come out and not make it that they have to make it.

Here's inefficiency. Here's inefficiency Here's inefficiency and a great way to do that would be to say the efficiency gains and the tax cuts are gonna go to people Making let's say under two hundred fifty thousand dollars. These are not these cuts are not being made just to make the rich richer That's gonna be the framing but just my best advice.

Don't you think that that's gonna happen? No matter what? What which part of it that they're gonna say that no matter what so I actually disagree with the first part of what you said I agree with you that the media the mainstream media will try to characterize this as Hurting the poor I agree and I'm not sure yet.

Yeah, whether I start or not Yeah, but I think the first part I disagree with is I don't think they should operate towards consensus I think that they should do what's right well, you could do what's right and you could start with things that are the most wasteful like if you start cutting kids lunches or Pellgrants Or you start cutting people's jobs to in health care education that people perceive are helping people I think you're gonna just feed into this narrative that it's a way to cut taxes on rich people And you know what?

You do need to build consensus. How does this thing look as on rich people? If you cut regulations and a bunch of our companies benefit from it just to be self-aware the framing is already that this is an effort for companies that we invest in to Have less regulation to make the equity holders in those companies more rich I just have to make sure that the hold on it for all you have to make sure the savings is for all Americans and that all Americans benefit from it and the way they benefit it the best framing they could do is Your taxes are gonna be lower because you're not wasting your tax dollars if they can keep to that not hey We're moving regulation so that our company needs to be honest with her Yeah, being a hairdresser requires more regulation than being any one of most of my companies So I actually think it better percent I think it benefits other people way way more than it benefits me and you have to use it as my point show it That's the point is you have to show people that you're doing this for everybody Not just for the people on this podcast and our friends that's gonna be the key what sum up just said is so important There's a great interview I've mentioned this in the past between Tim Ferriss and Charles Koch from a couple years ago where he brings up this exact example Yes about how regulatory burdens make it difficult for women to become hairdressers It's like $7,000 so they don't have the capital to do that because of the regulatory Yeah burden to get there think about building building your home or you know Like let's say you want to change put a shower in your bathroom change the shower in your bathroom You don't want to spend $15,000 on all the permitting regulatory stuff to make that happen.

It's gonna unlock value for everyone That's a small example of kind of a regulatory problem But this benefits everyone and the cost of my point is you have to communicate that you have to be able to communicate that and That's where using the launch platform Perfect job of communicating this to people and that's the playbook Freeberg.

That's my point People are gonna fight this you have to convince them. You have to show them that this is helping everybody Can we just agree that they're okay, but that's different than how you started you said only work on consensus projects I don't know. I didn't say that.

I think you have that Them first I said do those first make sure that people understand. This is to save them money I'm not saying that you don't change regulations for Spaceships and self-driving cars as well but you have to make sure you show people that this can benefit them or else they're gonna just fight it and That and that's gonna be the whole all this effort will be for not if you if you get a bunch of Republicans sacks who start fighting this and you have a splintering in your party because They feel like this isn't helping their local constituents.

This whole thing could be for not That's my story that you told is gonna be told by the legacy media and all the haters and the enemies Regardless of what? I don't think so. I think You show people on haters I'm talking about the public election now is the time to implement when you show people $22,000, you know hammers and wasted money.

You will get a hundred percent of Americans Backing this now 60 minutes been doing that for 30 years. Nothing's happened. We got to just act now Yeah act and bring people on with communications. I mean if you got if you're Poorly great not for it. Yeah, I'm not saying that communication isn't part of the job In fact this whole conversation started by us talking about an op-ed Yes, Vivek wrote correct and we're doing a podcast right in which they're laying out their objectives and they're doing podcasts And yeah, Elon has the biggest following in the world and biggest following so I just don't think communications can be the problem, but you're also not gonna be able to convince everyone and You know, we've already won the election and now's the time to figure out very strategically how to implement as much as possible Be humble by two million votes.

Keep it in mind. You have to bring everybody along. Okay, you know what? It was fair. It would been 20 million votes for Trump. I have one under these circumstances and he won the trifecta It's impressive Nobody's saying it's not it. I'm not minimizing it. I'm just saying be aware There's 74 million people who are rooting against Trump and I think getting some know them.

I'm not true. That's not true I think there's a decent number of people who are probably very upset that you know Trump won just like last time they were upset that Biden won Including all Americans in this is the most virtuous thing you can do. I think everybody should get on board I think it I think it's deranged the idea that 74 million people are actually rooting against him I don't think that that's true.

I don't there's a feel good that they lost people don't feel good about losing Bringing those people on board is virtuous dude. There's already been a huge five shifts in the country. Have you seen the Trump dance? I mean, there's been such a vibe shit. Let's see it. Let's see it I'm not gonna do it right now, but there's been such a huge vibe shift The energy right now is incredible and I think people are feeling much more optimistic can you imagine what a downer would it be if like we were expecting President Kamala Harris to take the oath of It would be a downer to me if there was still pushing a seven point two trillion dollar federal budget next year That would be a downer.

And by the way, I think that there's a deeply linked relationship between social issues economic issues political policies and foreign conflict they all seem like they're four different things, but they're so tightly interwound and It's interesting how everything kind of moves together with this shift in who ended up wanting winning this election cycle And I think it really speaks to the relationship between the four.

Well, by the way, there's a great meme that was floating around where it showed a photo of Trump Elon Bobby Kennedy and Tulsi Gabbard and it said that all for the fuel used to be Democrats. Yep. Yep Rogan in it. I tweeted that It used to be that that Democrats were progressive progressive means progress looking forward and the last decade the last couple years in particular I think a lot of people that I know that are former Democrats and Chamath you can speak for yourself feel like the Democrats stopped looking forward and it was all about trying to like pessimistic and Grievance and vengeful and all of a sudden you've got guys like Elon Promoting themselves as Republicans highlighting that it's all this is the party that looks forward.

This is the party that drives progress It's an amazing shift. I Don't know if there's been anything like it that's happened this quickly And I voted more to make America great again than I did vote for being a Republican I think that the Republican Party right totally Is is less important than it's ever been and I think MAGA is more important than it's ever been I agree, and I'd say the biggest risk to the whole agenda.

It probably is not the Democrats it's actually some of these old bulls in Congress who are Anti MAGA for some reason Trump is the one who just won the trifecta. He does won this big election If you stick with the old Republican message, you're just a surefire loser So give Trump his due as the leader of the party realizes now a MAGA party and let's get some things done If the reform agenda fails to be frank, it probably is not gonna be the Democrats It's probably going to be these holdouts and the Republican Party.

Yeah Yeah, yeah, that was my question earlier. I think I asked it twice. I didn't get anybody to engage in it How do you convince them? How are they being brought on board to this if they have all this pork barrel spending? Is there a strategy there? Would you have a strategy?

I think sacks laid it out, which is that if you use the combination of the carrot and the stick I think the carrot is Creating transparency and I think the other part of the carrot is You'll have now an extremely well-funded pack that can support people who are on board with this agenda But the stick is if you don't I think that if Elon makes us a really concerted Long-term part of his strategy then I think you should run candidates who actually are aligned with the agenda That the make America great again movement wants so I think that's the carrot and stick Jason, which is like some of these old Republicans will have to decide do I basically help invest in a renewal of the American spirit or do I keep pushing back because I like the way it was and I want to go to war and I want to cozy up to these lobbyists.

I think those folks are gonna have a very tough Four and eight years because I think you'll see a bunch of MAGA candidates rising up to run against them Everywhere in the United States as you can see my young apprentice your friends have failed Now witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational battle station, man I said be humble like three times.

None of it's sinking in No, I just explained I explained the rest. I've been very clear. You're not gonna get Milton Friedman Okay, you're not gonna get Javier. Malay. Well, we can hopefully get as a bending of the curve towards sustainable I mean my expectations to be realistic. Okay, I mean breaking even would be great if we do just weren't adding to the debt That would be amazing Look if the federal budget gets to three trillion And regulation gets cut if you get 50% of The regulations in federal agencies cut I think you unleash an economic sonic boom I'm all in and I think I think it's the greatest thing that could ever happen.

My gosh Could you imagine America clocking in? Regulatory, I mean how much you guys start with your own knees zero. I'm dealing not a real regulatory The regulatory stuff is brutal man. I mean like what it's legit brain like melting Tell me your number one regulatory Frustration we can go around the horn.

This is a great topic. Actually, I don't have any I think I'm very blessed to work in an industry That's very light with regulation I think it affects many many other industries that if they were unleashed could contribute to American real estate construction Regulations are very regressive because they touch poor and middle-income people way more than it touch folks like me Rip these regulations out To regulations that do affect you crypto regulation and capital formation.

Both of those things are They haven't heard this is my project, but they definitely are Economy, right? I can snap a finger and raise a couple billion dollars That is not it's so I'm in a unique position and I and I recognize that what is much harder is if you're trying to be an Electrician if you're trying to be a hairdresser if you're trying to be a massage therapist when you have to spend 15 20 30 percent of your salary on licensure.

Why? Why do we need the rules totally if you're a person that's trying to like construct a home Why does it take six and eight weeks to get permits approved? Why? And there are no good answers for these things. So forget about me like it doesn't matter about me But the mainline part of the United States economy as I said before is a coiled spring if you get rid of those regulations It disproportionately impacts middle income and lower middle income jobs This is why if you if you see if you see GDP if America clocks in GDP at four to four and a half percent Watch out folks Sonic boom watch out.

I'll give you two really simple ones allowing Everybody in the United States to participate in company formation would change everything 95% of the company cannot participate in investing in startups or any, you know, new I think it would be a massive freedom to operate just freedom to do stuff.

You know, that's what it is I mean, you're free to go to Vegas and gamble you're free to you know, play, you know I think the next order you're not free to buy Bitcoin. You're not free to buy you are free to buy Bitcoin You can buy what you can yeah, but you're not free to create a token, right?

Of regulation, I think there's many more traditional Forms of economic growth that we can have before we need to make ICOs Legal and easier. I want to say something. I think that the person that runs for governor in, California Should commit to cutting those 65,000 regulations down to 10,000 as needed to replacing the DMV with a digital app and To cut taxes to near zero and to create school choice Whoever does that will create a renaissance in California It's the fifth largest economy in the world folks, and it can be a bellwether for the rest of the world well, you know there there's a lot of scuttlebutt online that Nicole Shanahan is gonna run for governor of California and I'd be all in favor of that.

I would say that of all the Political personalities involved in the election over the past year. She gets my most improved award I remember when like Bobby named her to his ticket I was a little bit skeptical of that choice Because of some of the causes that she had identified with or donated to in the past But she I think has ended up being a star.

She's pretty based. She's a yeah, totally I mean, she's she's red-pilled and ended up supporting my hat and Maga and I don't think we're gonna get anyone better in, California. So she's wanted to do it and take it on. That'd be awesome Sacks, what about you? You don't want you don't want that that mansion It'd be a significant downgrade for me.

That's about to say Easy what yeah, you could live in the governor's mansion also known as smaller than your guest house That'll be your backup man cave. Well, actually that's happened people have in New York I remember one of the governors was like, yeah, you know, I'm good. I don't need to live in the mansion Where do you want to go next boys?

We have other things on the docket Would you like to go to our war correspondent? Would you like to go home Google breakup? Would you like to go Nvidia? Where would you like to go World War three? I think is important sacks. You put World War three on the docket Would you like to teed up for us?

Yeah Sure. Well, there's a several events that have happened in reasonably close succession The first thing to understand is what's happening on the ground in Ukraine. The Ukrainians been losing territory and accelerating pace There's an excellent graphic in the New York Times that I'll put on the screen that shows this it's not a stalemate Remember I said on this podcast Six months or a year ago that it was no longer a stalemate it was a war of attrition in which the Ukrainians were now losing and Every single month now the Russians are taking more and more territory again.

The curve is accelerating We'd all invest in a business who had a growth curve that looked like this. So not good news for the Ukrainians in Response to that. I think that's funnily the condition on the ground that's created the next set of actions Which is the Biden administration finally approved the use of long-range missiles attack Um's missile storm shadows to hit territory deep inside of Russia the Russians Believe and I don't know whether this is true or not but what they say is that those weapons cannot be operated without Americans or British Operators being there to you know, they're too complicated for the Ukrainians just to use on their own so they the Russians view this as not just a direct attack on their homeland on their motherland, but also a direct involvement by the NATO allies United States and Britain in the war and that is a big escalation You know a lot of people say that The Russians have all these red lines we keep crossing and they don't do anything That's not true If you actually listen to what the Russians have said there's only been two red lines the first red line was they said they would not accept NATO expanding to Ukraine and They proved their Seriousness on that issue by invading Ukraine in February of 2022.

The second red line is they said that they would not accept American long-range missiles being used to target inside of Russia and that line has now been crossed So this leads us to the next set of events, which is Russia just used what may be some people are saying it's an ICBM, but it probably is more likely to be Not an intercontinental but an intermediate range ballistic missile that hit a Ukrainian city and it's obviously it didn't carry a nuclear payload, but it's the type of ballistic missile that is used to carry Nuclear weapons.

There are a couple of features of this that I think are really important number one It's a hypersonic missile it hit the target at something like Mach 10 What that means is that it just can't be intercepted is too fast the the West and the United States in particular does not as far as we know have a Technology to intercept a hypersonic missile like that.

The second is that it had what's called a Merv? Warhead or payload Merv is multiple independently targeted Reentry vehicles basically what it means is the warhead splits up, right when it gets close to the ground It splits into six separate warheads. And the reason for this as I understand it is diabolical again It's just if you're launching nuclear weapon It just makes it that much harder to now intercept it because now you've got six warheads hitting you instead of just one so I mean as I understand a missile like this has never been used before and what the Russians are doing obviously is Sending us a signal and what that message is is that they're saying we have the means to hit any European city or any European asset With a hypersonic missile that you can't stop that may or may not have a nuclear warhead attached to it and It's just a way of them expressing their seriousness and displeasure and and and reacting to an escalating in response to the fact That we are now allowing Western missiles to be hitting targets deep inside of Russia.

So the bottom line is this war is escalating It's escalating to we're good and at some point soon Yeah, it's really we're gonna have to get off of this escalatory totally or we're gonna end up in a really disastrous place and just the last final point is It's absolutely remarkable that Biden decided to take us to this place with what just six weeks left in his term Completely as a lame-duck president.

What is his mandate for doing that for taking this extraordinary risk on behalf of the country? The voters just voted for Trump who made it really clear He wanted to end the war and Biden and his team have unilaterally now escalated this war They did it without consulting with Trump's team At least that's what was publicly reported is there was no briefing set up for Trump's transition team So you have here Biden his team taking a unilateral action to expand and escalate this war Even when he's a lame-duck president and the question you have to ask is why what is the point of this?

Well, I think it's just completely deranged because it's not just that forget Biden and Trump for a second if you take a step back What was voted in? Was to end this war and for the United States to get our hands out of it So you couldn't have a clearer message to the sitting president in the White House, which is this is not what?

Americans want and So to basically ignore the will of the voters and to essentially go and push another country into the brink I think is so incredibly responsible and you know other times we've said in the past Take Donald Trump Seriously, but not literally Russia you should take seriously and literally Because they actually write it down for you and tell you and so when they said Every act of aggression from now on is going to be Viewed by us on a look-through basis to the actual country that is enabling this to happen You couldn't be more clear, but Americans couldn't have been more clear, which is we don't want this war anymore And I just think it's really deranged what the Biden White House is doing.

It's incredibly dangerous By the way, not to mention. It's incredibly costly as well I mean, we've had like some last-minute efforts to sort of tamp down on these last-minute budget approvals and whatnot but we're talking about tens and hundreds of billions of dollars that we're giving on top of the risk of of Nuclear escalation.

I just think it's absolutely crazy. It's absolutely crazy. Putin is not a dummy He has heard and seen Trump's campaign rhetoric and Sacks, I don't know if this is this has been publicly reported that he had a call with with Trump after the the election victory Does Putin not see that in a couple of weeks a couple of months?

There will be new leadership in the White House and there's gonna be a path to a resolution here Like does that not give us all a little bit of reprieve that this is not going to escalate because everyone's waiting for January 20th Oh, I mean for sure. I mean, thank goodness I would say that we have a new president coming in who does not own this war I mean the problem with Biden is that he completely owns this war and he does not want to admit defeat And so what you've seen is that over the last couple of years every weapon system that Biden said he wouldn't give To Ukraine because it could literally cause World War three.

These are Biden's words He said it could be Armageddon if we gave Ukraine f-16s It could be Armageddon if we gave them Abrams tanks it would be Armageddon if we gave them high Mars and attack 'em's and Could lead to World War three if we let them hit targets inside of Russia.

These are Biden's words and He has basically given it on every single one of those points because he's so committed to this policy, right? He's he's in the quagmire. He can only double down. He doesn't know how to extricate himself and Now we don't know exactly what Kamala Harris would have done But I think probably she would have inherited Joe Biden's policy and likely Continued it and I think we have a wonderful opportunity here with Trump taking office.

He doesn't own this policy he can look at it with fresh eyes and Most importantly he campaigned on ending the war so he has the mandate of the American people to stop it All I can say is thank goodness and we just need to get through the next two months We just need to get to January 20th without there being some new horrible escalation in this war He's by Joe Biden is martin galing that's his strategy for the Ukraine-Russia war just keep doubling down and doubling down Oh, yeah, do you wanna explain what that is?

Oh, yeah. Sorry Martin galing is a strategy in gambling where let's just say, you know You start betting $1 and you lose your next bet is $2 if you lose your next bet is $4 if you lose your next bet is $8 and Eventually you'll win once is the theory But there's many times where Martin galing does not work, but you only win $1 So you could be betting, you know 80, you know 40 bucks 80 bucks $160 $320 and then you finally win and you win $1 right or or you go broke That's a great analogy because you can also go broke, right?

Caps at the roulette table One time I would do this. That's why all casinos have a max Yeah, so I would do this as a joke with my wife or when I was at the World Service of poker I'd be like I'm gonna pay for dinner or lunch or whatever and I put a hundred dollars on black lose put 200 on black win go pay for lunch and I did it one time at the WSOP and I went 100 200 400 800 1600 I ran out of cash.

I got 3200 from my friend. I put it down the floor man came over and said That's your last bet. Oh No, my buddy and I If you do this, yeah in our college years early 20s, we would go to drink for free at the casino You just sit at the blackjack table and just yeah I mean if you bet a dollar and then you bet two bucks You can just keep drinking for free for like two or three hours and then go out and enjoy your night You've made 15 bucks and call it enough.

Did I tell you about the losing a million dollars playing roulette? No me Nick you got to beep out the names me. It was me And tell me this you did tell me this yeah, this is so good says guys have developed a system it's full That's always what happens before you lose a million and he says that it's like we need to risk a million We can win like two or three And it's like ninety nine point nine nine six percent So so I say to him.

So are you really telling me that we just have to fade? Point zero zero four percent chance of like total loss. Mm-hmm, and he says yep. Well, guess what hit the point? percent shot Me slowly and and it was devastating. I just kept looking at this thing. Like what just happened.

He's like, oh we lost Yeah, and I was like there it is folks. I never again. I've never gonna play roulette again I think the gambling analogies are the right analogies cuz I look I'm not saying World War three is gonna happen I've never said World War three is gonna happen I'm saying that there's a risk of World War three and I don't need the risk to be very high to be very worried about It because it would be such a disaster often, right?

Exactly. So I want to minimize risk of ruin. I want to exactly I want there to be hopefully a zero risk of that But you know, what's interesting is remember just like a week or two ago President Trump made that trip to DC and he met with Biden in the Oval Office and Biden had this he was like all smiles and I'm everyone's like wondering why is he so happy and the speculation was That he somehow wanted a common to lose or something But now you think back on this he must have known he was about to authorize this decision So what he's doing here, he's grin He's grin Trump.

He knows he's about to give Trump this horrible hand, right? He's about to make this situation in Ukraine so much worse So that Trump will have to inherit this mess. That is like the definition of grin Yeah, he definitely knew more than that picture let on because a lot of the interpretation of that picture was They are getting along.

He's being super gracious. What an incredible gesture. It just looked like very He promised a smooth transition of power and then we find out that he didn't confer with his successor about this extraordinarily Meaningful decision to escalate the escalation. Yeah, it's like that's just crazy. It's crazy You guys want to do science corner?

I got one for you. Yeah All right, your super fans are desperate for a science corner. Give him one free board. Give him something All right, I will give you guys something here. Here's a depressing Paper that was published in the journal nature just this week research team out of Switzerland going over to the Swiss where they are conducting extraordinary research in the Epigenetics of fat cells in so we're gonna fat shame me on the science corner.

Go ahead. Great No, we're actually gonna understand perhaps why it is difficult for people that have been overweight Yes to keep the weight off. I did this and I think it's fascinating. Yeah, explain it. It is it is really incredible So remember we've talked about this many times in the past but every cell has your whole all your DNA all your genes and Certain genes are turned on or off in different cells and those genes being on or off Differentiates those cells and causes them to act differently That's the difference between an eye cell and a skin cell and a heart cell is they have different genes that are upregulated downregulated turned on and turned off and Even when you have different kinds of cells you have certain genes that are overexpressed or underexpressed or overregulated or upregulated or downregulated So that means that those genes are turning pumping out certain proteins that do certain things in that particular cell So what these folks did is they wanted to understand what is the epigenome meaning?

What are the genes that are turned on or off or upregulated and downregulated in? fat tissue and fat cells and Does the epigenome change When an individual loses weight, so once they're obese and They lose weight to the fat cells actually change their epigenome or date. Do they have an epigenetic memory?

Meaning that those cells even though the person has lost weight those cells Still continue to act as if that person were obese. So I'll tell you in humans They basically took five individuals that were obese and lost more than 25% BMI and they looked at the epigenome They looked at the markers of what genes are upregulated and downregulated before and after they lost the weight After they lost the weight there were a set of markers that were still upregulated that are associated with poor Metabolism and increased fibrosis and increased cellular death.

So these are inflammatory genes These are genes that are associated with the cells being inefficient that utilizing glucose to create energy And so these cells continue to act like slow dying cells even after the person lost weight and they did the same thing in mice and they found similar results that they Caused these mice to gain weight Looked at the epigenome of the fat cells and then looked at the epigenome after they lost the weight and again the mouse Epigenome continued to act as if the mouse was obese.

And what this means is that the metabolism remained reduced Fibrosis remained elevated and likelihood of cell death remained elevated so now they applied glucose in a petri dish to those cells and they saw that the Glucose had a harder time being fully being appropriately utilized from a healthy fat cell that hadn't been obese So it actually permanently alters and creates an epigenetic memory in the fat cells After obesity and this could explain Pretty significantly why when people that have been obese lose the weight they are more likely to gain the weight back and have a Weight off you're referring to yes, and that makes total sense because anybody who's added weight chamath if that you add but You know, you eat one extra Oreo a week.

That's 3,500 calories You do that over 20 years all of a sudden you wake up one day you're 20 30 pounds overweight like I was three or four years ago and this is why I think Ozempic and we go V and on journal and all these things are so great because it does seem like it breaks you through that.

No Well the problem what we do see in all those results that when you go off of the glp1 agonist grugs You gain the weight back very quickly. This is some amount of weight. Yeah It's a pretty significant bounce-back effect. So and and this is pretty well documented and So I think that it speaks to the why now the it also introduces an opportunity hmm, there are molecules that can turn certain genes on or off can now be identified and Utilized to change that epigenetic memory.

So now there's that switch in addition Yeah, exactly. This could arise from things like increased exercise. It turns out that when you do significant amounts of cardiovascular exercise there are certain genes that are expressed that trigger other genes to switch on or off and so we can start to identify those particular molecules and produce either supplements or Additional drugs or combo therapies that can both knock the weight off and keep it off by changing the epigenetic memory in those cells Wow, and so it introduces a whole new class of opportunity For folks to explore how do we help folks that are obese lose the weight and then flip the switch that they can keep the Weight off.

I've been doing rocking. This is like the old man activity that Peter Attia and these guys are all you put weights on And you like go walking where if I started with a 10-pound weight vest now, I'm at 35 pounds I do a mile and a half hike every day with 35 pounds on man.

I fall asleep immediately and the amount of Intensity that puts on your body you do it right before you go to bed No, no, I do it anytime during the day, but I'm just saying it's it's I'm focused on four things right now with my health diet sleep Exercise meditation and I try to do all four each day But the rocking specifically in this zone two stuff is what they say 40 50 year old should focus on so that's what I'm focused on But that rocking man, does it make your whole body strong?

I highly recommend it. It's really transformative My meditation is reading those essays for Chamath Palihapitiya German dictator 80/90 he's running a software company services company great. Look at you in the driver's seat David Friedberg your Sultan of science working on a hollow and the architect the rain man yeah, definitely David sack from craft ventures and Maybe it's gonna be involved in doge.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a sacks doge Hook up in the future. I don't know. I'm taking a guess here. I am Your host here Jason Calacanis See you all on December 7th live or in person by the way, did you guys see this spectacular? Did you see this tweet from Brian Johnson?

He tweeted out all of his blood levels. This is Incredible. I love this guy. Look at these results They're incredible if he can break this down into like a turnkey thing that mmm normal folks like us can follow for people who don't know What this kid's doing is he is spending like three million dollars a year or something to that effect on his own personal health Documenting it sharing it everything from sleep To his bone density.

Everything is an open book and he's made some products out of it as well So you can you can eat his pudding - if you're interested in it, but I don't think it's as good as how do you follow? His regimen, you know what? I mean? Like it just seems too hard.

You can't have a job I mean he's doing it's like he's got two jobs right now doing all this stuff. His biomarkers are showing He's ten years younger than his actual biological age Dude, look at some of these results his his speed of aging. He says his birthday now happens every 19 months What the?

Freeberg I Mean free bird you you look at what do you think your science from a science perspective any thoughts on all this? Well, I think his nighttime erection rate is pretty impressive. Not three hours and eight minutes for a nighttime erection How does he is he reading? Is he reading Ilana Vivek's?

He's reading it very slowly Wow, he's got a 240 pound bench press and an 800 pound leg press Jesus he looks like he's dead though. That's the only problem So pal sax has got to go DJT online - we'll see you all next time Oh Bye-bye We'll let your winners ride rain, man, David We open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy Nice Queen Besties are We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy because they're all just like this like sexual tension But they just need to release What You Merch Oh You You I'm going (upbeat music)