Man, I'm sitting here with Lecrae bro, appreciate you. I've been a big fan ever since, I can remember ever since I was a little kid. You know, I was listening to your music, I remember my dad put me on. Ever since I was like five to seven. So to be sitting here with you now, talking about.

That's crazy. Everything's going to be cool, man. That's crazy. >> Yeah, so first off, I just want to ask you, so you in the celebrity spotlight. You in the rap culture, I'm in the NBA. How do you stay grounded and how do you not let, whether that's social media followers, people treating you like you're a guy at your concert, whatever it is.

How do you stay grounded and just be like a regular guy with everything going on? >> Yeah, that's a good question. I think part of it is making sure I keep some of the people I came up with in my circle, you know what I mean? Like people who are not impressed with any, it's like they're not impressed with me.

They're like, man, I know you, what are you talking about, you know what I mean? It takes some time, take your friends a little time to breathe the air that you're breathing. You know what I mean? It's kind of like, what is going on? But they still see you as yourself.

So I try to keep those people around me. Two, I just always remember that nobody wakes up humble, man. You don't wake up humble. You wake up every day and you gotta chase humility. You gotta go after it. You don't wake up like, man, I feel humble today, boy, I'm just, you know?

You wake up like, I'm the man out here, you know what I mean? So you have to go pursue humility and be reminded that. >> And plus, it's a balance for real, especially with me. And I know it's the same over there. When you're trying to be the best and you're still trying to stay humble, it's like you gotta have almost a healthy ego.

That's a balance you gotta, I get on the court. And it's sometimes hard to think humility when my ego wanna tell me no, I'm better than every single person on the floor, you know what I'm saying? So, in your industry, it's so counter Jesus. And you obviously are, you don't consider yourself a Christian rapper per se, but you follow Jesus.

And how in your industry do you do that and not lose yourself or not kind of adapt to the people you're around? How do you stay following Jesus? And do you have to put parameters around you? What do you do? >> Yeah, everybody, it's funny, we was talking about this, but it's like, I think everybody is a werewolf, you know what I mean?

Everybody got a full moon. And when that moon comes out, you're gonna turn into an animal. You gotta know what your full moon is. So let's say, you have an addictive personality and you know if you get to drinking, you're gonna end up wilding out and going too far.

So obviously, your full moon is alcohol. So it's kind of like if you're around it, you might spaz. So it's like either A, don't put yourself in positions where you're gonna be around it, or B, have somebody with you who knows how you get down and knows when you're around it that it could take you down the wrong path.

And so it's just always trying to be like that. I mean, obviously, as a Christian, I believe that I have a power within me to, like, a supernatural power to keep me and hold me down and keep me from making bad decisions, but I'm still a human. So part of it is knowing your own struggles, your own vices.

And then two, count the cost. That's what I feel like a lot of people don't do. They don't count the cost. Like, you could ruin a movement over a moment, you know what I'm saying? And that just happens all the time. You got a whole movement going on, and then one moment, and it's over.

And it's like, man, it's not worth it, you know what I mean? >> Nah, that's facts. I think, for me, it's like you just said, is it an investment, or is it taken away from what I'm trying to do? But, like you said, every human get in certain moods where it's like, if you don't have certain parameters in place, you're gonna do something messed up.

So for me, it's like, I know over time, making the same mistakes, going through the same cycles. I know my vices now at this point. So it's like, I know what I gotta stay away from. Part of the reason I'm on social media is because I know, for me, when I'm feeling down about whatever, a game or whatever, I'll run to social media, and I'll run to that attention, whether that's women's attention, or just the approval of others, you know what I'm saying, to give me that boost.

And that wasn't really something I was trying to do. So for me, it's just something I had to take out of my life, and I'll go back. After a while, I'll get off of it, get back on it. And it's cool for a little bit, but then it creeps back in.

>> Creeps it back up. >> And to me, social media has a lot to do with the problems in this world. And it's tough, because it can be a positive thing. >> For sure. >> But like you said, it's an investment for me. I know myself, it's just one of my downfalls, you know what I'm saying?

>> A lot of people, man. This social media is rough, because it's kind of like this false sense of identity for a lot of folks, myself included, you know what I mean? So you gotta fight against that all the time, I definitely know what you mean. >> Yeah, for sure, and going off of identity.

I was telling her before we talked, your song Identity in your Rebel album. One of my favorite songs you talk about. >> You go back, my ears go back. >> No, your Rebel album, that's my favorite album you ever dropped. And that song, you just talk about how you try not to find your identity in the things, or your career, your house, your success, whatever it is.

You try to find your identity in God. But that's so much easier said than done, especially when you end in the career, or you end these moments. It's hard not to find your identity, for me, I know it is. When I have a bad game, and I see how just down I get, I know I'm not really finding my identity in God.

A lot of times finding it through basketball, and it's hard because that's all I do all day. But how do you think practically you can find your identity in God? >> Practically, a lot of it comes down to spending time with God. You know what I'm saying? Because the more time you spend with somebody, the more their perspective informs you, you know what I mean?

You feel closer to them, more connected to them. So the less time I spend with God, and when I say spending time with God, it's just being still, being quiet, prayer, reading my Bible, whatever that looks like, the less time I spend with them, the easier it is for me to believe lies.

The more time you spend with truth, the harder it is to believe lies. You know what I mean? So it's like when I'm spending more time with God, then it's harder to believe the lies. It's easier to believe, yeah, this is where my purpose is. This is where my worth is.

This is, and for me, some little things that I do, like I take a dry erase marker sometimes, and I'll write verses on my mirror. So when I wake up in the morning, I see it, and I'm reminded. You know what I mean? Just like, all right, I'm God's workmanship creator for things he planned.

So it's like, all right, this is where my identity lies. Because like you said, everybody's on your head. Boy, people have been on my head for years about every little thing. And it weighs on you. People treat you like a product instead of a person. And you have to remember, you know what, man?

I'm not who they say I am. I'm who God says I am, and just reminding myself of that. Yeah, no, that's big time. Because like you just was saying, it's about the input you put in. Like, I know me, and I know a lot of people. It's really hard to will yourself to be a good person, like to will yourself to grow every day.

But the more you can fill yourself up with good stuff, the more you can spend time in the Word, spend time around good people, have good conversations, that's the only way it'll overflow out of you. And for so long for me, I was just trying to will myself to make the right decisions, and will myself not to do certain things.

But as a Christian, that make it-- your life is kind of like you're always guilty because you're not going to be perfect. And when you're trying to will yourself to be better, better, better, then you trip. Then it's like-- then you just back down in the dumps. You know what I'm saying?

And that was a big problem for me for a long time. And that's kind of how I shaped my faith, was like it was a wrong perception of God because it was me trying to just not do stuff. And instead of spend time with Him, learn to love Him, and then do stuff out of that.

So you know what I'm saying? So I know you talk a lot about how you lost your religion, and you found your faith. And I feel like that's something that I'm in the process of doing. So what do you really mean when you say you lost your religion and you found your faith?

Yeah, religion, like you said, is when you are following rules in order to be accepted by God and accepted by people. Faith is what it takes-- sorry, I'm popping up on my phone. No, faith is when you have to believe that there's nothing you could do to make God love you more or make God love you less.

The work has already been done. And so I think about it like this. It's like I went on a cruise one time, my first cruise I ever went on. And before I got on a cruise, I was excited. I was like, man, we're going to be on this cruise for five days.

And then I started thinking to myself, oh, I got to pack for this. Five days on this boat in the middle of the water. And I didn't know any better. So I'm like, I'm packing snacks, all kind of stuff. Because I don't-- I'm like, you know how the food might be?

I don't know what the food situation is going to be like. And I'm just bringing all this stuff. And he's like, you know, you don't got to bring all this food. And I was like, what you mean? He said, all the food is covered on the cost of the cruise.

It's already been paid for. And I think that's how we treat our faith, is we try to add all this extra stuff to it instead of realizing all the price has been paid. Go enjoy the food. Be free to enjoy what's going on. Stop trying to earn it. Stop trying to build up.

And because you're an athlete, that's all you know. You know if I work hard, I get results. But that's-- it's different with God. It's more like you get to work hard. You get to practice. You get to, you know, enjoy Him instead of like, you have to. Yeah, for sure.

I feel like, too, like Christians, that makes a lot of Christians-- like, from the outside looking in, I feel like people really think Christians could be the most miserable people because they're not living in freedom. It's like they're in chains, but they're trying to do good. But they're not necessarily doing good.

So it makes this perception like Christians is just like always feeling guilty, always down. You know what I'm saying? And honestly, that could be the truth. And I think that's why the Bible is say, like, like, it's better to be hot or cold, either be all the way in the world doing everything the world do and be guilt free, or like, be all the way for Jesus.

But I don't think by all the way for Jesus, that means that don't do anything wrong. It just mean like my dad brought up a quote the other day. He just said, like, it was a quote of someone that say, love God, and then do what you want. But like, really love God, and that's going to change what you want to do, you know what I'm saying?

Big facts. Big facts. Everything else-- when you start with that, everything else after that, it makes sense. Love God, love your neighbor, and do whatever else you want. Because if you're loving God, you're not going to do stupid-- stuff that's stupid and harmful to you, you know what I'm saying?

You're going to do things that are helpful. Right. So how do you think the message in your music has changed as you've come to this reality? Like, early on in your faith, you talk about you was probably more like me in the beginning. And now, it's more you've come to this realization.

You just dropped this Restoration album. You talk about that. How do you think that that has changed through your music? What was you really talking about early on? And now, what are you more trying to focus on? I think early on, man, you know, I was real self-righteous. Just real like, look at how I move.

Look at how I do this. I don't do that. I don't do this. I don't do that. I don't do this. I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do-- you know, it was all about what I didn't do. Look at me, you know what I mean? Look at how I'm trying to follow God.

And even though I was trying to encourage people to push and to fight, you know, to be what God created them to be, I think what I didn't understand is that I was more devoted to my devotion than how devoted God was to me, you know what I mean?

So now, I'm not so much like telling people to get like me. I'm telling people, look, I understand it's hard. I understand that it's tough. But you got to keep going, keep taking steps. God is going to be with you in that whole process. Instead of like trying to will yourself to do it, like you were saying, it's leaning on God to be able to get you through.

Because that's another thing I don't want. When you have that culture of like, get like me, when I'm making them type of songs, people love it. But then when they mess up, they don't want to come around you. Because they feel like, oh, y'all going to look down on me.

I don't want to-- I can't be around them. But when you write from the standpoint of like, hey, you know, there's mercy, there's goodness, and there's another way to live. And if you fail, it's OK. Get back up. Because there's another opportunity for you to keep-- you know, restoration is available to you.

And that's what I always want people to understand is like, you know, God is always available for your restoration. If you really want to change, he's here, no matter how bad it has been in the past. So I think that's how the music has changed. Because I've made a lot of mistakes, too.

When you make some mistakes, then it's like, all right. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, all right. That's a fact. Yeah. Yeah, that's a fact. How do you-- how do you-- so how do you relate to people? When you-- when you in this world of like, living in the rap world, you got a lot of friends who's living probably like, way different than you.

How do you relate to them to a point so that you can be an influence to them, but also stand out? So like, I know, you know, some pastors or some people that want to reach certain people that are living way different. So they kind of got to like, blend in a little bit, but still differ from them.

How do you do that? You know what's funny, man? People make it rocket science sometimes. I think what folks don't understand is, people will respect you for being yourself. You know what I mean? People don't-- people think like, you know, everybody got like, a vegan friend. And it's like, you know they vegan.

It doesn't mean you're not going to hang with them no more. It's like, you just know when y'all go out. It's like, oh yeah, they ain't going to eat no burger. They might got Impossible Burgers though, bro, if you want to get an Impossible Burger or something like that.

It's just-- but they're not-- they're not hiding the fact that they vegan. They just-- this is what they about. And this is how they move and they function. And I think that's where my freedom was found, is I'm going to be myself, you know? I don't-- I'll be around you.

Oh man, my bad, I'm smoking. Smoke? I'm not going to. You know what I mean? And I'm not going to judge you. I'm not going to condemn you for what you doing. Because at the end of the day, I'm not here to point out all the little things that you doing wrong.

I'm here to be a picture of how good and loving God is, you know what I'm saying? And how my relationship with him has made some things better in my life, you know? A different look at peace and joy. So that's really-- I'm just there to be a light in those dark places.

So when I'm around folks, man, I just try to be real. I don't try to be holier than thou. I don't try to do any of that stuff. I was in a studio with lots of rappers that people would be like, what you doing hanging out with these folks?

But that's why they love me, is because I don't mind being around them. You know what I mean? You think early on, early on, like with that, you had to be careful about how much time you spent early on in your walk with God. Because you got to really be like Jesus hung with the sinners.

But it's because his faith was so strong. But early on, like in someone's faith walk, they might got to be careful being around those dark places because it might bring them down. You think you evolved to that spot where nothing can shake you no more? Yeah. Or you think it was always like-- Nah, nah, nah, nah.

I had to-- you know, you grow there. You grow into that space. Like early on, I made a lot of mistakes because I thought, like you said, I was invincible. Like, I can do this. The thing is, it's like somebody saying, man, they see you on the court. And they're like, I could do that.

You know, they're watching you. They don't know how many hours of practice you put in. They don't know how many shots you get up when nobody's looking. They don't know how many plays you memorize. And they don't know all of that. So a lot of times, people are like, oh, yeah, I could go to the BET Awards.

I'd be straight. Or I could go hang with these people. And it's like, you don't know how much, you know, meditation and prayer I done put in, how much studying of my word I done put in, how much barriers and boundaries I put around myself in order to be able to walk in these spaces and places.

Because if you don't, you know, then, yeah, of course you're going to fall. Yeah, right. So, man, this is called Curious Mike. We talk about anything on here. Like, that's why I called it Curious Mike. Because I'm going to just talk about stuff that I'm curious about and just stuff that I feel like a lot of people want to ask, but they might be hesitant to ask.

So, like, with the drinking and the smoking, like, I remember I hit you up a while ago. And I was just wondering, like, is this a sin? Because God put it on the Earth. So, like, as long as I'm not addicted to it and I'm moderate in it, what-- and then I'm going to ask you, like, what do you think of it?

Or, like, even drinking. I know people that, like, use drinking, like, way too far. And they take it way too far. But, like, you know, for me, it's not that. But, like, all in all, what do you think about the drinking and the smoking? Yeah. You know, I got to-- I mean, here's the thing.

It first comes down to, are you-- are you a Christian, right? Because if you're not, then there's different-- then you following a whole different set of beliefs and views and values. So if you say, yeah, I'm a follower of Jesus, OK, cool. So then I can use the Bible as our kind of North Star, in a sense, to talk about stuff.

Right. Cool. All right, bet. So let's look at that, then, and see what that says for us. And what I-- what I understand is, you know, obviously, the Lord tells us to be sober-minded. And the idea of being sober-minded is just, man, are you-- are you always ready to-- to withstand the darts the enemy's going to throw at you?

Because if you drunk, you not ready. You know what I'm saying? You not ready. Them darts is coming, and you out of there, champ. So it's, are you sober-minded? And, you know, all throughout the Bible, it uses, you know, Jesus turned water into wine. It doesn't condemn alcohol. It condemns drunkenness.

Right. You know what I mean? So it comes down to you being able to follow your convictions, because you got your own internal convictions about. And if you are doing something you feel is wrong, then you sinning against your own conscience in that moment, because you know you feel convicted about it.

So you wrong, you know. And Romans 14 talks about, you know, some people are weaker in this area. Some people are not in this area. So when it comes to smoking, I feel like anything that enhances your ability to be a light and to represent the kingdom is-- I don't have a problem with it, right?

If it's enhancing your ability to be a light, and it's not a detriment, you know what I mean? It's not tearing you down, hurting you, hurting other people. It's not illegal. Cool. But at the same time, you got to have your own barrier. You got to know where that line is drawn for you.

I, personally, I'm not a smoker, you know what I'm saying? But I have friends who are. I have friends who are Christians, and they smoke. That's not a line I dabble with, because I don't know-- like, alcohol, I know. One shot, all right, two shots, and then it's a wrap.

Like, now I may be going past my limit. Smoking, it's like, I don't know how much took me past the limit, you know what I'm saying? So-- but that's me. That's where I'm at with it. But at the end of the day, I think you just got to abide by your conscience.

And then, I don't try to look for how far I can go before I'm too far. I try to look for how close to God I can be. And that's what I always try to strive for. Yeah, that's the idea. That's the ideal way, see how close you could be.

But I like what you said about the conscience, because I've had this conversation with a lot of people. And I think, like, there's a lot of things in the Bible that is black and white. Like, you can do this, you shouldn't do this. And there's, like-- there is some gray areas.

And, like, as Christians, like, you might have a conviction that someone else don't have. And I don't really-- I don't like when, like, Christians try to judge other people because-- just because their convictions are different than another Christian's. Because, like, people struggle with different things. We talked about this before we start the interview.

But just, like, knowing yourself and knowing your own vices, what you would run to when you're-- when you're feeling, like, down or something. Like, if that's something you would run to, then probably stay away from it. Because-- but, like, if it's just something that you're using in moderation, like, I feel like it's-- Moderation is key, baby.

Food, alcohol, sugar, moderation, baby. Shrooms. I don't know. LSD. That's eight hours, you gone. You're out of there for eight hours. I don't know. Can you rep it? Can you be a kingdom by comparison? I just want to try it one time. I'm cool. I'm actually really good on that.

I don't want nothing controlling me for eight hours. I'm good. Get me off the bus. Let me off the bus. I feel you on that. Man, last thing I really want to talk about was the-- just your-- your, like, how-- how big you are into, like, the social justice.

And, like, you-- that seems like that's something you're really into right now and pushing for right now. How-- what do you see in our world is the biggest way that you can help and the biggest issues in our world right now in that area? Yeah. Well, one is-- is, man, we don't listen to each other.

You know what I'm saying? We don't listen to each other. We don't hear each other's stories. We don't try to see where other people are coming from. We don't try to learn. We-- no, we-- we just want to talk over everybody. That's why I don't like Clubhouse, you know, the app.

I heard about that. What is that app? It's basically, like, we're-- it's social media, but everybody's talking. You know what I mean? So instead of, like, typing or posting pictures, you just talk. And it was dope at first. But then everybody just started talking over each other. Nobody's listening to each other.

Everybody an expert in their own little spaces. And so if you are a learner, you know, you can learn from people. And learn from their perspectives. But if you think you've got it all figured out, of course we're going to end up like this. Because now you-- what you're saying is, I have nothing to learn from you.

You know what I mean? So even people I really disagree with, I just like to know why they believe what they believe. You're just trying to learn. Yeah, exactly. So I could say, OK, I see where you're coming from. Have you considered this? You know what I mean? And I think that creates a lot of problems.

And so, you know, when we don't listen to each other, we're not learning from each other. And we're not learning what different issues are and different problems. And when you on the top, you know what I mean? Like, you don't need people. And when I say need, like, I'm making money.

I live in a nice neighborhood, whatever. I don't need the people in the hood or in the projects. I don't need y'all. So I'm not listening to y'all. Y'all don't have nothing to offer me. Y'all need to listen to me. I'm the one with the money and the nice house.

And that's where the problem comes. Because they're trying to tell me what's going on in their world. And I'm saying, I know better than y'all. Y'all don't know what's going on. And I think that just creates a lot of tension. I'm saying with race and ethnicities, too. Nobody's listening.

We're trying to tell y'all this. It's like you can't have an opinion no more. Nope. Or they'll cancel you. You canceled yourself. You took yourself off social media. Go right on, bro. Man, speaking of that, I remember that situation with George Floyd. And how that went down and how heartbreaking that was.

And I remember seeing that video and being in tears, being devastated. And I remember tweeting-- there was three tweets. The first one was just like, man, that's murder. I just witnessed murder. The second one was like, that's heartbreaking. It brings tears to my eyes watching that video. Something else.

And then the third one was like-- because when you see stuff like that, you go to the barbershop or wherever, where there's a lot of black people, and then they're all talking about that. It can cause black people, when you see stuff like that, to have a hatred towards white people, in a way.

And when I see stuff like that, that's kind of what starts to creep into your head, no matter how hard you try not for it to. And so then I remember thinking, man, but what would God say? And I remember the third tweet I tweeted was, as much as you pray for George's family and how heartbreaking it is, also pray that God would change the hearts of these police officers that would even have the intent to do that.

And that tweet, the first, for a little while, it was just my followers that seen it. And it was like, man, that's big time, bro. Good perspective. Then some people saw it and was like, hold on. He's talking about pray for the officers that just murdered this dude? Man, when I went there, then some famous people started having backlash on it.

And then after that, everybody talking crazy. And everybody saw it, and people was really hurt by it and not understanding what I said, and not understanding the tweets that I had tweeted prior to that. And that was hurtful for me, just because of how much that stuff affects me and what I see when I see that video.

But I just remember you hit me. Do you kind of remember what your thoughts was in that situation, what you were thinking? Some of it. I remember saying-- there's a few things that come to mind. One is just like, man, you know, it was the timing. Right. You know what I'm saying?

It was just the timing, and everyone's grieving George Floyd's death. And sometimes truth isn't received when it's received in a time where people aren't prepared to receive that. You know what I'm saying? And so it's kind of like, you know, if your mom or dad or cousin got locked up, and you're sad about it, but they really committed the crime, and someone's like, yeah, well that's-- You're not trying to hear nothing.

It's like, you know, oh, they're locked up. You know? So that's-- it was more of the timing. And then, you know, obviously, social media is the place where people are going to misunderstand you. And especially you coming from a Christian perspective where love is our North Star, it's really difficult.

Because when you try to promote love, some people hear acceptance. Right. It's like-- so you're saying, hey, man, love your enemy. So I need to accept what they did to me? No, we're not saying accept it. We're saying love. Love doesn't tolerate injustice or accept it. Love still hates what's done, but it still tries to flesh out what it looks like to be consistent.

So-- No, I definitely-- the timing thing, I definitely was feeling that. If I could take it back, it probably would have been based on the timing. But at the time, it was to my followers. You know what I'm saying? I didn't know the whole world was going to see that, Joanne.

Like-- Oh, they did. You know what I mean? Oh, they did. That's why I called you. Because I was like, man, everybody's just going to say something. And no one's going-- like, I hate that. Just talk to me. Talk to me. Don't come at me on social media. Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, now, like sometimes the-- like in Jesus's way, this happened back then. And I feel like it's even more prevalent now. Like what Jesus would preach was so counter-cultural to what people thought was right. It was like he was killed for it. Like he was killed for the message he was speaking.

Even though it was like about love, people don't know how to receive that. And I feel like that's another thing wrong with the world today. It's like people don't even understand-- like it's almost like God said like in the end days, good is going to become evil, and evil is going to become good.

And I feel like we're getting close to that almost. Like so do you see that in this culture today? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Without a shadow of a doubt. You know, it's just a society now where we-- I think we tolerate-- we tolerate everything. And when you tolerate everything, some things are not good.

You know what I'm saying? They're wrong. And when it's wrong-- when it becomes wrong to put your foot down and say, I don't agree with this, then like you're saying, evil becomes good, and good becomes evil. So tolerating nonsense or foolishness becomes good. And then putting your foot down and saying, hey, we don't do this becomes bad.

You know what I'm saying? And so that's a unique place, man, where I think for me, there's a lot of things that-- obviously, we all got a lot of learning to do and unlearning to do. So I'm always trying to learn and unlearn. But I can follow a person-- like when people disagree with me, I can follow a person who stands by what they believe in.

At least I know what you stand on. You know what I mean? And so I'm like, all right, cool. Now, can we have a discussion about it? Because somebody may be looking at things from the wrong perspective. And when we can do that, then I'm like, good. But we're not able to do that no more, which makes me feel like, all right, well, here we go.

We get into that time period, wars, rumors of wars. I mean, Christ said-- he said when he was alive that they were in the last days and the last days are coming. So I think it's just a long time period of us being in the last days. I don't know when he's coming back.

But I do know it's been consistent. It's been consistent. But it ain't no way we're going to be here for more than, what, 100 years. I think it's going to happen in our generation, to be honest. Well, we got some work to do then, you know what I'm saying?

We got some promotion to do. We need to start promoting this kingdom. How much of that good looked at as bad and bad looked at as good do you think comes from the music industry and the rap culture, like multiple women now? If you were a dude who only talked to one girl, and you only got one girl, and you ain't cheating on her now, you kind of looked at a square these days.

Or if you ain't doing this, now you looked at it as soft. If you ain't promoting violence or whatever, how much of that do you think? Because you in the music culture, how much do you think stems from that? Art imitates life that imitates art. So I think there are some parts of it that are real.

But then when people learn, oh, if I rap about this, I make money. So I'm going to rap about it a lot. And then the world says, oh, well, I need to imitate what I just saw more. You know what I mean? And so I think some of it is real.

And then music talks about what's real. But then when music does it, it glorifies it. And then people really start-- Messing with it. Exactly. You know what I mean? So I think that's really what happens. And I see it all the time, where-- I mean, even like myself, people just see something, and they want that.

Like, for me, being a Christian, and then breaking all these barriers. Oh, you doing BET, and you winning the Grammy. Like, first rapper to do all this stuff. A lot of young Christians who rap saw that. And that's what they went after. Just the awards, and the limelight, and the fame and stuff.

And not the heart that went behind it. So yeah, you saw it all happen. And you was like, oh, I need to be a part of it. I need to do this. And I think that's what happens a lot of times, too. It's like, some kid who never thought about being a gang member, who never thought about none of that stuff, is listening to some Chicago Drills dudes.

And they like, yeah, that's what I'm on. And it's like-- And plus, it's way harder to make it the way you made it than it is to rap about what everybody else is rapping about, I feel like. Way harder, bro. I'll be jealous. I'm not going to lie to you.

I'm jealous. I've been telling people, like, you're so lyrically genius. If you was a secular artist, you would be all the way up there. Bro, it's so easy to get in the studio and freestyle-- About anything. About anything. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I could go for hours. I could make 50 million songs.

But to have to like, all right, I'm going to say this. And I'm going to think through this. It's work, man. Is there any pressure that come with, like, when people think of, like, you know, Christian rap, which you don't really like being put into that category. But is there pressure being like, the dude?

Like, when they think of that, they think of Lecrae. Like, is it pressure to come with that? It's pressure at first. And then you own it. At first, it's pressure. Then you own it. And it becomes, this is what I do. You know what I mean? So it just becomes, this is what I do.

So let me make sure y'all get a good representation of this. You know what I mean? Because it's what I do. Same with you. It's like being on a court. It's like, you know, is it pressure being at the highest level of basketball? And it's like, sure. But then it's like, man, I've been doing it, you know, so long.

I've been playing so many games. This is what I do now. Yeah, you ain't nervous no more. You said that in your music. You said, I've been doing it so long. I don't get nervous. Yeah, that's facts. Now, I got one last question for you. So why you choose Jesus?

Was there ever a period in time where you wanted to explore your faith? I went through this probably a year and a half, two years ago, where I didn't know what I believed. I didn't know what I wanted to believe. Why you chose Jesus instead of anyone else? I'm definitely like a thinker.

And I remember studying world religions, you know, before I was like, I'm landing my plane on the Christian faith. And I've had rocky roads and doubts and all that type of stuff in the journey. But really what solidified it for me was, as I looked at the world's religions, and I mean, you can go through them all, right?

Which I did. I went through all the ones that I knew about anyway. When you talk to people, and I have good friends who believe, who are Buddhists, who are Muslim, who are agnostic. I got some Rastafarian friends. When you talk to them all, and you say, man, how do I get to God?

How do I get to him? All of them will tell you, there's something you got to do. There's something you got to do. You got to do this, and then do this, and then do this. Or you got to do this. Exactly. You got to perform. And I said, man, that's just hard.

Who knows? No one knows. Everyone's dying like this. You know what I mean? I hope I get there. And Jesus is the only one that said, all you got to do is trust me. I performed already. So every other faith, you got to reach up to try to get to God.

But Christ reaches down and pulls you up to God. And I was like, I'm done. Because I know I'll never be perfect. Man, you know how messed up you are, right? That's what it was for me too. I know how jacked up I am. So if every other religion, you got to perform and do enough to make it.

Christianity is the only one where it's like, nah, someone came and saved you. That's the one I'm rocking with. I'm rocking with it. And Christianity has almost become now, like we talked about this earlier. But it's almost become, in this day and age, a little performance based. You know what I'm saying?

But real Christianity, I mean, it's just about faith and believing. Not that weird old stuff you see on TV, OK? Not that weird old stuff. We're talking authentic. I don't even-- sometimes I just be saying, I'm a believer. I don't even want to say I'm a Christian, because I know people are like, oh, you're like-- Yeah, I'm a believer.

I'm a believer. You know what I'm saying? This day and age, some people just talk about God too. They don't even mention what God. They say they believe in God. That's true. Or I feel like a big movement these days too is, you know, the new age type of religion, where you're kind of like almost your own God, like you're trying to become your own.

Giving the universe all the credit. Yeah, it's like-- and that's-- I ain't gonna lie. That's what I-- I had dabbled in a little bit. I was going to the crystal store to get my little crystals. I heard they was going like, whatever. Like, that's-- and that too, it's like, why make yourself your own God?

Like, that's trying to will yourself to be better. Amen. I'm with-- I think God puts all those things here for us to enjoy. And they're useful in their own ways. Yeah. You know what I mean? I agree. As far as, you know, like meditation or yoga, all those things can be beneficial.

But when it becomes-- when it becomes God, then we in trouble. I think even like, yeah, like you said, even astrology or something. There might really be some truth to them zodiac signs or like a story told in the stars or whatever. But then when that becomes like your basis for like living in faith, that's when it becomes dangerous.

Right. I agree with you 100%. Yes, indeed. Man, well, I appreciate you. It's been dope. We talked about a lot of stuff and I appreciate you, my guy. My guy. Respect. This episode was sponsored by Lemon Perfect.