Hello everyone. Welcome to the official unofficial Grace Point podcast. It's good to have you guys back. My name is Stephen. I'm Isaiah. And we are your co-hosts. And we are in the middle of a series called Atypical Church. It's talking about what makes us weird and stuff like that.

We talk about what makes us weird. We talk about what makes us tick. And we talked about actually church last week. But one thing we forgot to talk about that we really need to talk about. We're going to talk about what makes our church work and what's unique about our church is sisters in ministry, women in ministry.

So yeah. And so we've got some special guests here. We've got Emily and Eunice. We're going to let them introduce themselves. But we're going to ask them some questions about just what they do. And sort of hopefully that'll paint a really good picture of just like what it's like to be in ministry at Grace Point.

So how about we just start with that? Just intros. Emily, you want to start? How about you talk about, introduce yourself. How about how you first came to our church? And what kind of ministry you're doing right now? All right. So I came to our church last century. 1994.

So did I. Yes. So I came as a freshman. I actually came through meeting some people who helped me with some dorm move-in. And it was really, they were actually the first people I met on the UC Berkeley campus. So actually I came late on move-in day. So I didn't even meet my dorm staff.

They had already like left. Oh. And so anyway, I don't know if I should go. So you're grateful. But like, yeah. Yeah. Okay. For sure. And when did you find out that this was like church people? Right away. Oh, you know. So they said, oh, we're from a church.

We're helping people. You know, whatever. My mom was like, yes, church. She'll be coming, you know. So I was like, oh, okay. So anyway, so it came kind of on and off my first semester. And actually I went to my first winter retreat freshman year. It was at Jeunesse Park.

Oh, wow. Jeunesse Park is a retreat set that we own. Yes. So it was super nostalgic to go back there when we, you know, started work there. And then anyway, so I've been coming since then. It's kind of an awkward intro. So I have a very clear memory of Emily.

Oh, okay. I think it might have been the first Sunday that she came. So I was a sophomore and she was a freshman. And she came wearing her alternative rock t-shirt. What band? Cranberries. Cranberries? Before your time. But I knew. Do you know what that is? I have no idea.

I immediately recognized she must be into music. I'm thankful that you got the band right because every time you would tell it, it would become worse. Like more extreme bands. Like Megadeth. And I was like, whoa, whoa. Corn. Thank you. Did you listen to Megadeth? No comment. No comment.

Anyways. Yeah. So now I'm serving in our middle school ministry here. And I also am like the unofficial official librarian at our church too. So. So I'm really thankful for Emily because my boys went through the youth ministry here. Okay. That's right. She would recommend books for them to read.

They still call her NTM. Nice. Nice. Cool. All right. So yeah. Eunice, why don't you just do the same thing? Yeah. I came also as a freshman. And what was the question? How did you start coming out? Yeah. I started coming out. Yeah. I had an older brother who brought me out to church.

And so I'm part of like the era where I, I was part of like the really, really old time of our church. But as the youngest one, you know, one of the youngest ones. So we just barely saw it. And then we went on. Oh, so Emily was like spare.

Yeah. Oh, I guess. Like it, the line is right here. Yeah. Oh, okay. But now I'm in Seattle with my husband Steve. We lead our church up there. Okay. What does that mean? You were like, well, what was the difference between your experience versus Emily's experience? Was it just like really older ones?

Well, no, actually when I came, our group was called KBSU, Korean Baptist Student Union. Okay. And it was the last year of that. And then it changed to ABSU. You kind of joke around about how, I mean, it was predominantly Korean, you know, but then, and I was like, maybe one of the most white, I washed up that Korean.

Me too. Okay. Yeah. So we were like, and then, but starting with our classes that we had our first non Asian, like friends. Here's the Lord. Oh, wow. So I remember the staff actually being really happy about that. Okay. But as a freshman, I don't really understand what's going on.

But yeah. So that was like 94 or 95 ish. Oh, interesting. Wow. Cool. Cool. All right. Cool. Um, yeah, I think it's a little bit of an enigma. Like, I mean, I get this question too. Like people ask me like, what does your typical day look like? And I don't, I'm just like, what?

I don't know how to answer. Or like, what do you do? You know, like, I remember when I first came full time, I was, I came up full time as like the praise guy, the worship guy. And they're like, yeah. So do you just like, like play guitar all day?

You know? And I was like, the answer was yes. That's what he did. Yeah. All I did was watch videos of like Hillsong concerts and stuff. Um, and so it was kind of hard. So, um, why don't you guys just try it? So you're, you're sort of an element and you're also a librarian.

You're leading a church in Seattle. What, what is your responsibilities? What does the typical day look like? What do you do? We could just answer that. Oh, yeah. It's really funny actually that you mentioned this because my dentist asked me that because he knows, I've known him for like years.

Okay. And he knew I, you know, I used to be a public school teacher. Yeah. And I left to go full time at church. What did you teach? And what grade? Um, I taught high school English. Okay. And middle school English too and social studies. Um, anyway. And so, um, I tried to explain my day to him and he goes, oh, and he's like cleaning my teeth.

He's like, oh, what did you say? What did you like? Well, I said, oh, you know, well, I, um, meet up with like some of my, you know, friends in the morning for, I just start off the day in God's word and prayer. And then, um, you know, um, and then there's different meetings that I'm part of to like plan out our ministry schedule for the week.

Um, I also do some reading. Um, you know, when I organize the library, I order books for the bookstore, I work on our devotions for our church and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. I meet up with students, blah, blah, blah. And then he goes, oh, I need to clean my teeth.

So you're kind of like a nun except Protestant. And I was like, I guess so. I was like, what, what? But I was kind of like, what? But, um, it was kind of hard to explain. What do I do? You said you're kind of like a nun. I'm kind of like a nun.

You know, like, cause he's, he's like, oh, you're in the house of God all day kind of thing. And I was like, oh, hmm. But it's not like, like, oh, all day long. You know, I was trying to explain. Yeah. You don't have a uniform. Yeah. I'm just doing like the life of what it takes to, you know, run a youth ministry or, you know, just all the different things that happen at our church building here.

I mean, one of the things I do is I let people know when Amazon packages have arrived for them. You know, it's like random little things, you know, yeah, yeah. Cause they don't know. Yeah. So anyway, so, you know, it's just a lot of little things and we're just doing life together.

I don't know. Okay. It makes sense. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. She also helps plan for the, um, youth ministry. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's up a little bit about that? Like what, what is planning for youth ministry? Probably a more significant part of your life than the Amazon.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. What does that look like? A little bit. I mean, so, um, just thinking through conference. Yeah. So I'm thinking through like our, um, year, like our semester and our year, like what are the different kind of peak moments we want to plan for our youth? Well, what are some of the needs, you know, I'm working with middle schoolers.

So there's, you know, it's a, it's an exciting kind of age. And so always looking for new opportunities to challenge them, to really teach them. And, um, yeah, so there's a lot of talking about what would be, you know, the different ideas, you know, also help with like the high school ministry or just different youth kind of youth wide things.

And, um, yeah, just, I guess, um, considering different things like retreats, um, special speakers, um, just organizing the, kind of the weekly stuff. You're like really, yeah, you're like setting the whole program, helping, helping, helping, yeah, for sure. Because, you know, since I'm here, you know, full time, I can kind of spend that time like during the day to do that.

Well, most of my ministry team there, you know, by those, what's the, what's the best part of middle school ministry? And what's the worst? I'm just kidding. You have to say a word. It's just, what's the best. Well, yeah, so what I love about it so much, yeah, what I love about it so much is that, um, there's still enough of the childlike excitement about things and kind of this excitement to just learn things.

And, um, yet they're not kids anymore. And so it's really exciting because they have questions. This is one of the, for a lot of them, it's the first time that, you know, most of them have grown up in church, but they start kind of wondering, wait, why do I believe what I believe?

Like, how do I know God really exists? Um, you know, what about other religions or, you know, okay, Jesus says that, oh, we're supposed to, you know, share the gospel with people. What does that even look like? And that's so hard because school, oh, it's so awkward, you know?

And so they're excited, they want to know how to, like, earnestly, like, follow God, but, like, what it looks like, they have a lot of questions. And so it's really exciting. Um, and, and it's actually a pretty fruitful ministry in the sense that, like, a lot of them make first-time personal decisions to follow Jesus.

Yeah, because they might have grown up in the church, but they never kind of made it their own. Yeah. And so that's been really actually rewarding. Um, and also it's like, I always tell them, it's kind of, they're in the hyper-learning kind of mode in terms of their brain development.

Yeah, yeah. So they can learn things faster and better. It's true. And what they learn during this period of time is going to stay with them longer. So true. So I've, like, scared them, but also inspired them and motivated them. Yeah, yeah. Because it's, like, a crucial time. And so, yeah, so it's so amazing to see them, like, learning musical instruments.

Yes. You know, picking up different hobbies and interests. Oh, man, there's a world of difference between people who pick up instruments in college versus, like, middle school. Yeah, yeah, I started in college. Yeah, yeah. And so it's kind of cool because it's also the time when they're so excited to learn anything.

And so they're going to pick up stuff from everywhere. And so, you know, we work really hard to kind of have, like, a- Like an outlet for that? Yeah, an outlet and, like, an alternative to what they're going to find out from Google searches or from their friends or, you know, the world and what's, you know.

So, anyway, so a lot of things that just make it really exciting. So, I guess there are a lot of things that, you know, we're thinking through and planning, you know, in the week to week. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Now, Eunice, you want to take it then? And there's no worse thing.

Yeah. It's great. It's all great. It's just all highs every day. Well, no, there's some worse things probably, but we don't know who's listening to this. No, we don't need to know who that. Yeah, so, Eunice, as a church plant lead Seattle, what do you do? Okay, my typical day.

Similarly, I mean, we start with DT, our daily devotions. We have different groups of people come to our house, you know, on different days. And I'll have a little... What time? 7 a.m.? 7 a.m.? Yeah, I like having it at my house because then I can prep the breakfast before the night before.

So, you make breakfast for them too? Yeah. Super breakfast. And then we get to share together. We usually... Because I see them... So, that group, I'll see them once a week. So, then it'll be like sharing what you're thankful for or prayer requests. So, it's kind of a connecting time.

So, I really enjoy that. And then after that, we have meetings. Usually, Steve and I have our meeting. You know, we like to whiteboard meetings. So, you and Steve, you guys meet to talk about... Yeah, like the ministry and stuff. Like the ministry planning or whatever issues we want to tackle.

Uh-huh. Yeah. For the... So, you mentioned like whiteboarding. What do you mean by that? Yeah. Like, okay, for us, Steve and I, the whiteboard is a crucial part of our meeting. Yeah. It's like, without the whiteboard. Without the whiteboard. What happens? Without the whiteboard. I'm saying an ominous. I don't know.

Maybe before and after a little bit. Before the whiteboard. Before the whiteboard. BW and AW. Maybe like, you know, because I have the things I want to talk about. And he has the things he wants to talk about. And there's like a traffic jam. And, you know. And then my husband is gifted in many ways.

But he has a problem staying on track. With discussions. So, we hit upon a good method where, yeah, he takes notes on the whiteboard. And, wow, it's like magic. Oh, wow. We can talk through some things together. So, we generally do that. And then we have a bunch of guys who telecommute at our house.

So, then we generally have lunch with them. Wait, where? Like, what do you mean they telecommute? There's a... So, they work remote for their jobs. Yeah, they work remote. And they set up, like, a telecommuter area in our... In the basement. In our basement. So, they really like working there because there's also a basketball hoop right outside that they use often.

And, you know. So, we generally have lunch with them and get to hang out with them a little bit. Or, we head to our office space that our church uses and take care of some things there. And then, generally, our afternoons, we either meet up with people or, yeah, take care of different planning needs.

So, we do our own work. Steve generally preps a lot. Preps a lot of... Messages. Oh, okay. So, then, if he's doing, like, messages, things like that, what kind of stuff are you handling? Like, everything else? Like, what is it? Kind of, yeah. Oh, no. Not everything else, but...

A lot of the logistics, maybe. Yeah. And I work with different... So, like, we'll have a management meeting, you know, once a week. I know. Emily's part of that, too, here. So, and we'll take care of all the... What are some of the big... Like, yeah, just some of the bigger stuff that you handle?

Well, like, at our management meeting, I think the two big topics are childcare. Yes. Working out any childcare needs for the week. And then, also, like, venue and... So, you know, like, it's an exciting time, I think, for our Seattle Ministry because a lot of the staff, the younger staff, are taking the more, you know, front lines, roles of...

They're out there on campus. Yeah. They're meeting students and stuff like that. Meeting students and, you know, planning out what needs to be done, what they want to accomplish in a quarter and things like that. And so, we try to oversee things and, you know, help them plan ahead.

Like, help them plan for the quarter. Help them plan for, you know, the next quarter so that they have some space bandwidth to think about the week-to-week. Okay. Okay. So, you mentioned childcare. So, can we talk about that a little bit? So, when you explain to people who are listening, like, what does that look like?

Yeah, you just hire babysitters. Who are, yeah, who are, whose children are these and what does that entail? Yeah. So, all the kids in our church. How many kids are there in Seattle now? 12. Okay. So, we're a small, yeah, small shop. And, yeah, some of our churches, there's a lot more kids.

And so, we- Some of our kids than adults. Yeah. Sometimes it's like a one-to-one ratio. Yeah. Yeah. So, then, you know, we try to help the parents work out their ministry schedule. So, like, they're, you know, generally the parents, you know, can work it out with, they take turns or things like that, watching their own kids.

While the other parent goes out. Yeah, yeah. Like, there'll be a night the dad goes out and has meetings with their students or something or vice versa. But, there's times that, you know, sometimes they ask for help. Like, oh, can we get help with child care because we have this special event or something?

So, then, I'll help them work out, like, oh, since the international group, international student ministry group has an event going on, you know, maybe our youth staff can help out or our college staff can help out and we kind of make those arrangements. And, also, we just try to work out all of our weekly meetings in advance so that we can think through the child care.

Like, is there enough time between things so that the parents can, you know, pick up their kids? Like, is there enough transition time? You know, things like that. Yeah, so, that, you know, there's a lot of logistics and kind of overhead involved in making that all work out. So, you know, you got to coordinate, okay, so, you know, these people are going to be caring for children tonight and these people are going to be caring for them, you know, the next night.

So, what would you say, what would you say is the benefit of all that? Like, what makes that worth it? Why do that? Yeah, so, it is pretty headachy sometimes, but, Matt, it's, I mean, totally, totally worth it because it allows both parents to be involved in ministry. You know, like, we have a good friend, we have a friend up there in Seattle who's part of a, they're a pastor, pastoral couple at another ministry and, you know, what they tell us is, it's such a struggle.

They're, they have these two kids and it's really hard for them. Like, the wife used to be equally involved in ministry, but once they had their kids, you know, she's been pretty knocked out. And so, you know, even like one time we offered to help her with child care so that they could have a planning meeting and she was so thankful, you know, and the husband was so thankful, you know, that his wife could join him.

So, I realized, through their eyes, I realized, wow, you know, we have something really special at our church. We have this culture where we help each other out with child care so that the whole family can be involved in ministry, you know, and it's not just the one parent, you know.

Yeah, yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that value to sort of like, yeah, it's so that, you know, we help each other out so that the husband and the wife can be equally involved, right, in ministry and like, why is that a value? You know, what benefits do you see even from that?

You know, like, and why did, yeah, why do we try so hard to make that happen? You know, I think. Yeah, because it's not the case at all churches, you know, a lot of churches, it is pretty male dominated. You know, mostly it's the men who are in the ministry and a lot of times the wives are, you know, watching the kids and not able to be involved.

So, yeah, so just kind of, you know, like, why is that? Yeah, I didn't think. Feel free to jump in, Emily. Sure. Well, one thing is then, I mean, the women can minister to women, you know. It sounds kind of obvious, but, you know, maybe not so. So that's one thing.

Yeah, I mean, I think, like, so in our church, we really value that women being able to minister to other women, the younger women directly. And, you know, that's only possible if the mom has, you know, help with child care at times. And then also, I think just the husband and wife being able to lead together, I think it's huge.

I think it really adds a certain something to the quality of our community. I think just having everyone together, like the family-like atmosphere. Yeah, like mom and pop. Mom and pop, having the kids run around together. I mean, I think that's how we grew up, you know, in our ministry and you guys too.

And there's something very special about that, being in the homes together. Yeah. Yeah, because, I mean, I definitely appreciate that, you know, now doing ministry as a church plant lead couple out in Philly. There's just so much about the world that my wife sees that I don't see. And, you know, there's certain things that I don't see that she doesn't see.

But there's a lot that, like, oh, I never would have thought of that if my wife didn't point that out to me, whether that be, like, about myself and, like, just the way I am. Or, you know, noticing this need that I just am blind to. Or just, like, ways that she cares for people in concrete ways that I wouldn't do, you know?

Like, just, like, my little gifts and kind of being attentive to these small needs. Like, I definitely feel that. Yeah, yeah. Even the different perspectives. Oh, yeah. Different skills. My wife is, like, way more techie than I am, actually. She's way better at tech. And I'm, like, I try to video edit and I'm, like, really slow.

So she's always, like, I'm going to edit that video for you. You know? I'm like, so, woman in tech, let's go. You know? Like, she was, you know, working in tech. I'm way more techie than my wife. But, yeah. Yeah. It's different from every couple. Yeah, every couple is different.

But there's a lot that benefits. But those, yeah, both of those strengths can come out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So how about, like, we can start wrapping things up. But, like, what keeps you going? You know? It sounds really involved. It sounds like a lot to do. And, like you said, like, a lot of people, because of kids, whatever, family, like, they, you know, they're taking it out.

And we talked a little bit about the practical aspect of that, like, getting childcare so that you can keep going. But, yeah, just, like, what do you find most satisfying, fulfilling, or, yeah, energizing and keeps you going for the long haul? Yeah, I think now is one of the older ones, you know.

I think now there's generations of people that I've seen change, like, transformed by the gospel. And I tell you, I just see them. And it just fills me with just, like, this overwhelming gratitude towards God and, like, confirming, yes, God is real. And I can keep doing this so that I can, you know, meet more people like them, you know.

So it's, like, you know, the first, one of the first classes that when I was a senior, you know, and they were freshmen. So that's, like, Helen, Helen Park and, like, you know, different people like Susan Iskandar, you know, in different churches now. And just when I see them still hanging in there and, like, serving in different ways.

And, you know, and then it goes on and on and on, you know, different people. And, yeah, just even, like, the 2010 sisters, you know, a lot of them are actually in Seattle. But they were the first class that I went all the way through, freshman, you know, senior year.

And, yeah, just seeing them now, like, yeah, they're out there. And I don't know, just going through the different panes of ministry and just seeing, I don't know, just I get moved when I think of them. All the element students over the years, you know, and now some of them I'm, like, serving with, you know, like, I got the chance to serve with Beatrice in middle school ministry together when I was, I remember when she was a high schooler.

And then, you know, just that journey to faith, you know, or Amanda, Amanda Chu now, you know, and, you know, different people. And just so when I, when I see that, wow, okay, I didn't know what was happening then, you know, but God was working. And, you know, people, just different people throughout the years sticking it out and, like, growing in their heart for ministry and just being there all together.

It's just, yeah, it's really strengthening. Yeah, there's a really deep, like, joy from that partnership with the gospel. It's not just, like, we're just doing this, but, like, I know you. Yeah, it's hard to describe it, but it's, like, even moving just to see them, like, walking past each other at HB.

You know, sometimes it takes me aback. Yeah, so that's one thing for sure. Yeah, I think over the years I've heard a lot of, yeah, I think I've received a lot of encouragement like that from people who, man, I see the way that God has transformed their life. And it is such a, yeah, palpable, like, I feel so much gratitude when I think about, you know, when I first met them and different struggles in life that they went through.

And I see how God so faithfully led them, and I got to be part of that journey. And I think as I get older, I feel, you know, like, I know that every student that we meet, it's, like, you know, they might not, like, you know, continue on with our church for that long, you know.

But I have a greater trust and hope that even the little bit I can invest in their lives, you know, you know, they might just be passing through our ministry, you know, one quarter or whatever. But the little bit we get to share with them and invest in their lives, I think it's valuable, you know.

And I just trust that God's going to keep working in their life, you know. And I'm thankful that I get to be part of that. Like, I never would have, like, I really had not very high vision for my life, you know. I'm not a very, I don't know.

I didn't think that. You didn't think you would become a church plant lead? No, no. Pastor's wife, no, nothing like that. I am, I personally have, I don't think I have natural leadership, you know, like, abilities or anything. What was, like, your, what did you want, like, what was the picture of it?

I was going to be an engineer and just a boring life. Just be a good engineer. A safe but boring life. That was my plan. And I think God has taken me on a way more wild and, you know, amazing journey. And so I think when I think about that and what God has done in my life and what I've got to experience, I think that's what keeps me going.

Sorry, I'm going to throw in another question here, going off script a little bit. But one question that I have is what do you think, because, I mean, there's to an extent we don't know what we don't know as guys. So what do you think are some challenges of doing ministry as a woman that maybe men wouldn't understand or don't have to go through?

Like, what are some of the unique challenges that you face doing ministry as a woman to women? Oh. I guess I don't know what it's like to be a guy either, so I don't know. Yeah, we want to know that it's unique. Yeah. I think, though, it is like maybe some of the burdens of ministry weigh differently.

Yeah, when I look at, well, I guess I know my husband the best. Yeah, so maybe you could talk about this from just a personal. I think that's maybe easier. Yeah, so there is a way that I think I get more emotionally kind of involved, I think, or like I feel things, maybe I take things harder than my husband and he can kind of press on in different ways.

But I think I feel like I worry about what people, how people are affected. And, you know, I worry like, you know, like how people are doing, you know, and I, you know, there are those, I think those burdens of ministry kind of weigh heavier on me. So maybe that's part of it.

I don't know. That's something that I've had to learn to, you know, you know, bring to God and learn how to pray over those things and not be paralyzed by those kind of concerns. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing to add. That was similar to what I was going to say. Cool, cool.

Well, man, I mean, so back to what we were talking about earlier, you know, just, and what you guys are talking about, just like impact on people. Like, but I just think about my own story and coming to our church and actually like, even though you were never my direct mentor, there were a lot of like points where we intersected.

And our, my sophomore year, you taught my discipleship class, SK-1. Both of you were. Yeah. Yeah. You taught our discipleship class, SK-1. And I remember that was like really. Midway. It's a complicated year for me. You probably took it like five times or something. But I remember that being really good for me.

And then that really helped me just kind of understand like myself and my relationship with God. And different things I needed to grow in. And then when you guys start before Seattle, you were Riverside. Yeah. Right. And I, I was at a point where when I went home to SoCal, I didn't have like a church community to go through.

So when you started Riverside, like Bob, my peer would pick me up and take me to service there. And I was so thankful because those times being at home were really difficult spiritually, you know, and just felt like I would just go back to my old habits. Cause that was my old stomping grounds.

And like every service that I went to, every, even some prayer meetings where you led or were, yeah. So it was where Pastor Steve was, was preaching. Just ministered to me so well. Like there was, those are some key moments for me. I remember especially there was one prayer meeting at your house at Hackamore.

Wow. You remember that? I remember this one. Cause it was a pretty, I was going through some pretty tough stuff and it was like this Christmas themed prayer meeting. And we had, we all had like little like lights, like for them to pray. And that was, that was a really, that was a moment that I really needed.

Do you remember that? I do. There was another message where Pastor Steve preached on truth. And he just, man, he, that one got me. So I'm really grateful. And then, and then I'm, I'm just grateful also just the way that the both of you even mentored my, my, our friend Bob.

I know you guys like play a huge role in that and stuff. So he gave us some gray hairs. Yeah, sure. Probably more than a few. Yeah. We'll have him on another time and ask him. I don't know about that. I don't, I just wanted to stay an enigma.

No, but yeah. So, so, you know, like just wanted to thank you for that. And just, I think that is probably the most rewarding thing. Yeah. And I'm a big proponent of, we need sisters in ministry. We need to keep doing what we're doing because, I mean, my wife, her first person she met at our church was, was Emily Kim.

Wow. Go shoot your wild. Where would I be? Man, different worlds. Thank you, Emily. Yes. Steph is smashing the like button. That's right. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you guys. Thanks for being on our podcast. Our pleasure. Really appreciate you guys. Like and subscribe. And yeah, if you guys want to see more of the same thing, maybe Emily start her own podcast.

That's right. Like and subscribe. All right. We're going to start an online petition for Emily. Yes. Start her own podcast. And I'm sure that podcast will overtake this one, actually. It'll be amazing. Okay. Ah, go on. Thank you. All right. As always, thank you for joining us on the unofficial, official, unofficial.

Wow, you got me, man. It's not that easy. Official, unofficial Grace Point Podcast. And we'll see you around next time. We'll see you around next time. We'll see you around next time.