Let's start with an easy question about consciousness. In your view, is consciousness something that's unique to humans, or is it something that permeates all matter, almost like a fundamental force of physics? I don't think consciousness permeates all matter. Panpsychists believe that. Yeah. There's a philosophical... How would you tell?

That's true. That's a good point. I believe in the scientific method. I don't know about your mind or anything, but the scientific method is like, if you cannot test the hypothesis, then you cannot reach a meaningful conclusion that it is true. Do you think understanding consciousness is within the reach of science, of the scientific method?

We can dramatically improve our understanding of consciousness. You know, I'd be hard-pressed to say that we understand anything with complete accuracy, but can we dramatically improve our understanding of consciousness? I believe the answer is yes. Does an AI system, in your view, have to have consciousness in order to achieve human level or superhuman level intelligence?

Does it need to have some of these human qualities like consciousness, maybe a body, maybe a fear of mortality, capacity to love, those kinds of silly human things? It's different. You know, there's the scientific method, which I very much believe in, where something is true to the degree that it is testably so, and otherwise you're really just talking about preferences or untestable beliefs or that kind of thing.

So it ends up being somewhat of a semantic question where we are conflating a lot of things with the word intelligence. If we parse them out and say, are we headed towards a future where an AI will be able to outthink us in every way? Then the answer is unequivocally yes.

In order for an AI system that needs to outthink us in every way, it also needs to have a capacity to have consciousness, self-awareness, and understanding. It will be self-aware, yes. That's different from consciousness. I mean, to me, in terms of what consciousness feels like, it feels like consciousness is in a different dimension.

But this could be just an illusion. If you damage your brain in some way physically, you damage your consciousness, which implies that consciousness is a physical phenomenon, in my view. The thing is that I think are really quite likely is that digital intelligence will be able to outthink us in every way.

And it will still be able to simulate what we consider consciousness to a degree that you would not be able to tell the difference. And from the aspect of the scientific method, it might as well be consciousness if we can simulate it perfectly. If you can't tell the difference, and this is sort of the Turing test, but think of a more sort of advanced version of the Turing test.

If you're talking to a digital superintelligence and can't tell if that is a computer or a human, like let's say you're just having a conversation over a phone or a video conference or something where you think you're talking, it looks like a person makes all of the right inflections and movements and all the small subtleties that constitute a human and talks like a human, makes mistakes like a human, and you literally just can't tell.

Are you video conferencing with a person or an AI? Might as well. Might as well. Be human. Be human.