(upbeat music) - Let's say we've now picked a place. Let's say we have decided the why and we know why we're going. What kind of research do you think people should be doing in advance versus leaving up to that serendipity you described earlier? - What I like to do is, so I'm just gonna give you an example of from the 52 places trip I did, because I mean, I think it's very out of the ordinary, of course, but I think there's a lot that can be learned for it.

One of the things was that I, because I was going to 52 places in 52 weeks, I didn't have time to prepare, right? I luckily had someone at the times who was helping me and she would send me like a really great, like one pager of like, here's what you need to know about currency and here's what you need to know about, you know, public transportation and here's like the top 10 things to do when you Google the place, right?

Like these are the big tourist hits or whatever. I would try to like knock out those 10 things in like an afternoon and be like, okay, so I've done the brass tacks, I've seen that now, like, let me actually have an experience, you know? And I think that goes back to this idea of like travel being more serendipitous, more spontaneous, more connective than it is extractive.

I think a lot of the times we think of travel as extractive where it's like, I need to go in there, get things that make me fulfilled and leave and that's, and wash my hands of it and plan the next trip. And I think leaving things open has been, has always led to the best experiences.

In terms of preparation, like, yeah, have a place to stay. If it's city-based, find a place to stay. I think beforehand, if you can, go as local as possible. And I don't mean Airbnb. I mean, Airbnb is fine if that's what you want to do. But I think there's nothing better than staying at like a family run bed and breakfast.

I think it's the best, you know, bathrooms down the hall, you know, dad's making you breakfast in the morning. Mom's giving you tips of where to go shopping. You know, like that vibe, I think opens up so much just in terms of local recommendations, in terms of the feeling of being a local, in terms of supporting local economies, you're staying at like a family run hotel versus the Hilton or whatever.

Like that thing goes a long way in terms of where you're putting your money. So I think that's a great place to start. I've had incredible experiences literally just from, you know, an innkeeper in Bulgaria, who over the course of five days of me staying there, kind of gains my trust.

And all of a sudden he's showing me old family photos and he's showing me into the basement where there's like a fresco on the wall from like the Ottoman times. And he like keeps it under, like behind glass, 'cause it's like his greatest possession now. And it's in this house that he's owned and his family has owned.

So just like these experiences that you unlock by like going local, by going small. I feel like you didn't ask me where you should stay, but I do think that is kind of where most people start. And I think thinking even the why in that decision goes a long way.

You could just look at TripAdvisor and go with the one with the most reviews with five stars, but then you're just kind of doing what everyone else did. - Right. And is there a time and a place sometimes for staying in like the city center, being really close to things?

I don't know if the, you know, kind of bed and breakfast are always kind of located in that area. But you know, maybe you do both. Maybe you do the rural bed and breakfast for a couple of days, and then you stay in the middle of a city where you're not really gonna be spending time at the hotel anyway.

But I think to go back to kind of what my first steps are in feeling that I'm connected to a place, what I learned to do pretty quickly on my reporting trips is that, and I think this is, it's reporting specific, but I think it's travel, like general tips for travel too, is when I get to a place, especially if it's a city, first thing I do is I leave the camera in the hotel room.

I put the phone away in my pocket and I just walk. I'll give myself like an hour and a half, maybe two hours, no destination in mind. I just wanna get the pulse of the place. I just wanna feel it. And maybe I'll get distracted and like sit down for a beer and watch the city go by that way, or a coffee or sit in a park for a little bit, but I just wanna be there.

And that means not looking at my phone. The great thing about Google Maps is that you can get completely lost and then use it to find your way back, right? So I just like, if I think a street looks interesting, I'll walk down that. If I see a scene happening at the local park, I'll sit down and watch that for 20 minutes.

If I strike up a conversation with someone, I'll let that go and see where it takes me. But it's just such a small thing, but it goes such a long way. If you're just thinking like, of course you're gonna wanna document things, you're gonna wanna post things to Instagram, you're gonna wanna share it with friends, all this stuff, but just wait a couple of hours.

Do it starting that evening. Give yourself at least a few hours to feel like you're there and you're in the place. And maybe you'll see places where you're like, oh, I need to come back and photograph that. I need to come back during sunset 'cause I bet the photographs here are great then, or whatever else that you need to do.

And I'm thinking of that professionally, of course, as a photographer and a writer, but I think everyone's into documenting their trips, so everyone's thinking of that. But if you give yourself time to just be, it's really amazing how much better you get the place. You understand it and you feel it in a way that you don't, again, if you're just extracting content from it from the moment you hit the ground.

- You didn't mention this, but one thing I like to do is, where possible and where not ridiculously inconvenient, get to wherever you're going using public transportation when you first arrive. Taking the train, taking a bus. You see people in their normal environment versus if you were to take a taxi or call an Uber in another country, you're just sitting in the back, just moving.

So I feel like your trip starts sooner when you do that. - And I think it's, yeah, public transportation is a great tip. I think you really get to know a place. There's cities that I know geographically through their subway maps versus their actual maps. I know that this stop is here and this stop is here, and that's my understanding of geography.

And I think it's something that as people get older and as people have more money and all these things, you stop doing that. Like when you're a backpacker and you're living off the $20 in your pocket, you're taking public transportation or walking because you're not about to drop half your budget on a taxi, right?

Now, I think, at least for me who's older and whatever, it's much easier for me to be like, "Oh, I'll just take an Uber." But if you force yourself to, there's a lot we can learn from our early days of travel, backpacking and whatever else when you're pinching pennies, including the fact that like, yeah, public transportation is gonna save you money, but it also like, you just get to understand, you're seeing the places in between.

You're seeing the kind of people that come on on certain stops and get off at certain stops. You're like, you get a really better understanding of the place just by getting on a train or a bus or like, you know, in South Africa, the combis, the little mini vans that go around.

You just get such a better understanding. And people will help you too. And that's another thing that I think it's intimidating. Of course it is. But if you're lost, people will help you. I mean, I remember trying to find my way around the metro system in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, which is incredible.

I mean, in the case of like former Soviet countries, take the subway just to see the metro stations. They're like works of art. It's unreal. So I'm taking the metro around in Tashkent and I was just so confused. I was like, I didn't understand the maps. I was sitting there with like, you know, two handfuls of coins and bills, just like unsure about the denominations.

I was jet lagged. And someone like saw me immediately and came up to me. And like in broken English was like, where are you trying to go? I like, I said the name of the stop and just held out my hands with all the coins in it. And he just like picked out what I needed, put it in the machine, gave me the ticket and led me on my way.

You know, it's like you put your trust in someone, someone's gonna help you out. And just that interaction too, like I still remember it and I'll remember it probably forever. Just that small interaction that you're not gonna get if you just call an Uber. - Yeah, those things happen.

So we had the same thing happen in Aleppo, Syria. We got into the city, we took a taxi from Turkey and we, which fun fact, taxis from Turkey, I mean, I'm sure this is different now, but taxis from Turkey to Syria, because gas was like 10% of the cost, right?

It was so cheap. The taxis would go for free almost. It was like, you know, the cost to go from Turkey to Syria was almost nothing as long as you had no bags because there were special taxis where their entire trunk was just gas tanks. And so you would go into Syria and it would be super cheap, but you'd get dropped off and we had, we were staying couch surfing in a suburb and we had no clue what we were doing.

And a random person came up who spoke no English, but kind of got the sense that we were lost, called someone, handed me the phone. So just a stranger's handing me a cell phone and I answer it and this person says, "Hey, you don't know me, but my brother says he thinks you're lost.

So he called me and if you want, you can tell me where you're going, I'll tell him and he can help you get there. But he would love if you stopped by his house and have some tea first." So like it was this experience that I think many people could just not be open to or think it's scary.

And I wanna get at some point before we stop to talk about, you know, risk and safety and that kind of stuff. But being open to those things has been some of the best experiences we have.