is is jay cal here i can't see him maybe i've been blocked i don't know i'm getting static on the line i can't hear anything i can't hear anything why do the two fat guys have to ruin everything i mean get your together youtube i'm not we have something good don't save it for the show the show started freeburg you're lost in full already here we go here we go you guys ready i'm not bad anymore let your winners ride brain man david sacks and it said we open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy if you'd like to skip the bestie twitter drama and get right into the episode jump to 20 minutes and 48 seconds hey everybody hey everybody we've got a great show for you today what a treat this is going to be here at the all in podcast we're going to be here at the all in podcast we're going to be here at the all in podcast we cover everything technology business market politics science and of course the besties emotions and their feelings i'm dave friedberg the king of cannolis joining me today are the guys that used to be besties first joining us from burlusconi's boomba boomba palace the pied piper of spax himself chamath polyhapabuyu welcome you look great today thank you and uh from one of his many houses the uh sass bully himself david sacks and of course our former moderator and host the one and only the internet famous the bronx bully jason calacanis everybody jcal welcome you're looking great you look like you're ready to do a little uh jab and a hook so for those of you joining us today that haven't been following on twitter i'm sorry chamath did did you get kermit the frog to host the show i mean jesus christ that opening was the worst most painful thing i've ever heard it really was not very good okay well welcome sacks and jcal not really feeling great about this you can't it's a failed experiment already i thought the opening was good good job free bird i think you're doing well it's a four of ten stop prejudging his performance it just began and by the way interrupting already stop interrupting stop interrupting calcanis so the moderator is moderating and jcal has to take the money i love her i'm gonna mute him thank you so gentlemen welcome as we know over the past week there has been a twitter feud between jason and um david sacks and i'm going to give you guys a little bit of this background for those of you who haven't followed online which i'm assuming is the vast majority of you but there's a twitter account called all in stats and they publish an analysis showing that jcal has been talking a lot on our podcast and sacks uh for the last couple of weeks has been kind of you know kind of quote tweeted and said you know here is statistical proof of jason's piss poor moderation of the all-in pod jcal if you were moderating correctly you would be fourth place in air time entire airtime instead of tied for first your job is to facilitate discussion not dominate it stop interrupting and let the grown-ups talk jcal immediately jumps up with a response maybe you could start your own pod with peter thiel and keith or boys and have tucker carlson moderate sack says i know it's rough doing 10 years of this week and startups and never getting to number one then shemagh friedberg and i do it effectively on the first date on the first take but this is why you need to stick to your lane and stop talking over us oh my god so brutal sax jcal then responds with a niche podcast about just startups it's never going to be number one it's not for a general audience like all in by design number two sure trash the guy who has relentlessly supported you for decades because you're obsessed with your stats and forget about the quality of the conversation then jcal blocks david sachs on twitter publicly sax tells everyone jcal blocked him and this whole thing escalates and snowballs so the besties have they broken up are they going to get back together is this podcast going to continue my mom sent me a text this morning has the pod disintegrated jason pulled out question mark question mark question mark the drama ensues so gentlemen um i leave it to you sax with your opening remarks and then jcal you're going to be the besties may respond i'm here to moderate this opening of today's all in pod so we can kind of get past this and hopefully get the besties back together and continue our conversations that i think many people find valuable and are super helpful and useful for us and for our listeners sax please well i mean i i can see on jason's face that he's he's hurt that by my my tweets um you know i uh maybe he should go first and explain what's so hurtful i mean look the reality is about this show that you know breaking balls is part of it we've been doing it for you know a year and a half and nobody does it more than jason and then all of a sudden you know he's on the receiving end of a couple of mean tweets and he's like the schoolyard bully who finally gets popped in the nose and goes running to the teacher and he can't stop bawling so you know where is it that somehow the word piss poor crosses the line and he's like oh my god i'm gonna go to school i'm gonna go to school i'm gonna go to school piss poor crossed a red line for you after all of the you know ball busting you've been doing for the last year that somehow that's out of bounds and now you're gonna block me and potentially end the show in our friendship so explain that to me big baby all right number one i want to talk about the statistics in my role on my perception of you david is that you got a taste of fame and celebrity and it's gone to your fucking head and you're out of your ego is out of control you now have stopped doing your job every day and you are obsessed with your statistics and how you're perceived on the pod as seen by your obsession and your bromance with henry or harvey bell caster whatever you're sitting there obsessing over what percentage each of us talk none of the other besties are reading all in stats or getting obsessed with henry belcaster and how they're perceived on the pod you have taken a championship show which i pulled together with my decades of experience and team as the point god i am the chris paul of moderating the reason this show is number one is because i created a super team there are four people on this podcast who bring a lot to the table and you have asked for decades for air cow i will not pull out a list but the time that you were going to get canceled because of beep and the other time that your company was in the beep because the beep was investigating it you called air cow you called an air cow you can't deny it and nobody has benefited more from my skills in media than you are you are you speaking in an accent i'm not speaking in an accent i'm getting uh this is when i get upset what he's getting for clem he's getting for clients he's controlling it okay i'm not speaking in an accent i'm getting uh this is when i get upset what he's getting for clem he's getting for clients he's controlling it okay i'm not speaking in an accent i'm getting uh this is when i get upset what he's getting for clem he's getting for clients he's controlling it okay i'm bringing the ball up court and i pass the ball to everybody i am white chocolate on this team i am the professor i am chris paul okay and i pass the ball now if you want to be a point guard like me and throw crisp passes that make the audience laugh and make them cheer and bring down the whole goddamn stadium well sometimes i'm going to do a no-look pass it's going to hit you in the back of the head or it's going to bounce off you can't and cry about it constantly david and if you're looking at the minutes i have to read the story and prep the story so i can put it in your lap which i love to do i love my role here and you're taking my min account which is at least two-thirds moderation and you're saying that's indicative of me being piss poor now if it's all a goddamn joke that's fine but you're messing with my business my business is podcasting and performing if you got a problem with me as the moderator you have my fucking phone number you can call me but don't go out and start some fight with me and then go start hanging out with henry belcaster when i'm your boy okay and then everything with you is about your call-in clubhouse killer and we've got to move the pawn to that you're getting out of control david you need to realize we started a podcast that went to number one instantly and be grateful about that and stay the course the end i'm done well all right good all right so can i respond so first of all j cal i agree you put the the super team together for this pod you're an indispensable part of it i'm not questioning that you know i don't think we should i don't think well let me come to that the adults talk let me first uh let me i'm actually saying some positive things about you before i get into my uh critique okay so look you deserve credit for putting this thing together along with the podcast and the podcast is a great podcast and i'm going to put it in the description so you can read the podcast and the podcast is a great podcast and i'm going to put it in the description with with chamath uh it wouldn't be the same without you you do bring an element of entertainment to it uh lord knows if it was just freberg moderating all the time it'd probably be extremely boring so um look i although we're gonna give him a chance today so who knows um but rough start and it's not that i was angry or upset or concerned about my air time or any of that stuff i was frustrated okay because your moderation i have a couple of um concerns about or i guess complaints okay one is that you do tend to interrupt and i'd say you interrupt me more than the others okay and specifically not true let's talk about the the issue the the issue where this came up was the eric adams issue last pod okay so you didn't even go to me this this issue the eric adams issue is all about the crime issue what the audience doesn't know is that you went to chamath like three times then you moved on and we had to come back i said no listen i raised my hand to get back to the point where i was like i'm gonna go back to the point where i was like i'm gonna go back into the conversation we edited that part out you skipped over me completely i don't know how that was good passing where was the dish okay to me on that issue okay let me explain to you can i respond to that sure you've got three people on the team who can score i come down the court i pass it sometimes there's two open guys you're the guy who was open who didn't get the pass and now you're walking down the court complaining no instead of keeping your head in be like not going to freeburg on a science issue all right okay i understand any chance for you to defend the cops beating up criminals i understand that's your wheelhouse next time when it comes to that i'll make sure it would be it would be a conspiracy i agree with you i agree with you it's an oversight i can't hit every perfect pass you're expecting perfection so then it's a miss pass and now you're upset about it okay okay so then so then i basically say listen i want to talk to this issue i have three points to make i'm not through point number two before you're interrupting me and taking the ball away the specific reason why i said i have three points is to telegraph to you don't interrupt me bitch i got three points to make okay what do you do you cut me off in the middle of point two how is that good moderation i don't think you do that to chamath or even freeburg this really is about this really is about chamath versus you and my relationship with each i love you both no no and the reason why i brought up the all-in stats okay is not because i'm concerned about my air time but but to show i'm a little concerned no because i i they broke down that i was like fourth in air time and so the only point about that is why are you giving me the hook when i'm not talking too much if i were talking too much if i were monologuing it'd be a whole different story but you're yanking the mic away from me in the mid-sentence before i even had a chance to finish and there's and there's one more thing okay which is as soon as i bring up any concern with a moderation where do you go you start calling me tucker you know you start labeling me in this way okay you had dinner with tucker in the last year just like just like a year have you had dinner with tucker you're proving you're proving my point where do you go where do you joke yes but why i'm trying to keep the show entertaining and keep it moving part of keeping the show entertaining moving is keeping you guys from monologuing i have to cut you off and make jokes a year and a half ago at the beginning of the pod we had to have the last time we had a sort of session like this it was because you kept trying to paint me as a trump supporter which is not my agenda okay now you're doing it for trump now you're trying to hang did you vote for tucker label on me why aren't you saying hey let's hear from george will let's hear from william buckley the reason why you're choosing those labels is because you know they are anathema to most people in silicon valley and you're trying to stigmatize me with them no that is you're trying to are you reading from your notes are you reading from you you're trying to hang that albatross points over my neck okay and that is you're trying to anathematize me in in the in the view of most people in silicon valley you're causing that's not what i'm trying to do you're trying to make a joke but you are causing the audience to prejudge my message my points before i've even had the chance to say that's what i'm trying to do by by attacking the boogie men of the left to me okay the result of that is the audience is going to pre-judge what i have to say and probably a third of the audience will never want to hear what i have to say because you've pre-labeled and prejudged me that is a serious problem and that is with my business that is with my business is it really a lot more a lot more than me calling out your moderation on one show oh so now it is moderation oh okay i thought it was great moderation now we're back to it being moderation let me ask you you know what you're doing did you know what you're doing did you have to talk about you know what you're doing how have you had dinner with tucker answer the question all right i'm gonna mute both of you now okay i'm in the moderator chamath do you want to weigh in on these two idiots and talk a little bit about how we can move the show forward and at this point i'm thinking about vetoing the publication of the show so we can just have this conversation this was this was so stupid nick edit all this nonsense out and make it 30 seconds and move on hey guys this is a really important powerful thing that we accidentally stumbled into i'll make two points david does get labeled and i don't think it's fair and jason does an excellent job of moderating and sometimes i think that jason does get excited and in getting excited you know he's also not just moderating but moderating and moderating and moderating and moderating and moderating and moderating and moderating and moderating and moderating and moderating and just there to moderate he's there to contribute as well and so i think that if you look at the the number of minutes as a guide it's not going to be accurate because he does have two jobs to do whereas the rest of us only have one and david does bring an enormous amount of clarity to what he says in a very fair way and it is unfair to him that he gets basically slathered with here's the crazy guy on the right so i think what i would just say is just let's just tone it the down and conch down okay we're at a million people a week we could be at 10 million people a week and we could own the distribution of our ideas to millions and millions of people let's just stay the course and calm the down well i i agree with all that actually i i agree with you i'm 100 in agreement i want to address the labeling issue i want to address the label issue i am joking nine out of ten times when i talk about trump because it's hilarious and your relationship with tucker i think it's hilarious that you're part of the keith raboy and teal thing and and i don't think it's damaging for your business at all and i think people are telling me i'm purple viewed we're moving to the center here so i believe that we're doing something noble by bringing all these voices together it's all a big joke and you know what i don't care what you say about me on twitter i know i'm good at what i do there's nothing you could say that can change that why is your accent change i i think in general you are good at what you do and i and i and the reason why i have two of the top ten tech podcasts is go put your podcast player don't tell me to get my shoes anymore foreign number four and number eight nobody's saying that so i think i think what what david literally what he said that's literally what he's doing right now is showing why i had to tweet which is you won't take a note i can't tell the guy hey listen you gotta know for me it's not gonna happen on twitter you got my phone number well it doesn't happen in private either we know that you could call me oh really you're gonna take a note in private i've tried we've had this conversation before we had this specific conversation about the trump thing a year ago we haven't talked about trump in six months you're back to all your bad habits can we just hear an apology from one to the other and tell the other yeah i'm absolutely willing to hear sax's apology tell him what you appreciate about him and what you like about him go ahead yeah go crisis is therapy all right i unblocked sax and i'm following him enough thank you move on we move forward apologize to each other i'm sorry you tweeted that sax i'm sorry come on seriously david apologized to him let's just move on jason tell sax you're sorry for labeling him and you know you'll be more conscientious in the future please i'm sorry that i brought up your relationship with tucker and that i labeled you a trump disciple i don't even need an apology i just want him to recognize me too so i'm trying to be the bigger man it i take it back okay i unblocked you and you're followed i unblocked you and you're followed that's enough sax jason his feelings were hurt by you telling him that his podcast sucks and yeah piss poor piss poor okay look you asked me to have 10 of your founders on the podcast in the last two years i counted your team is in the mix trying to get people booked on the show we're not gonna we're not gonna keep it going you've benefited from this relationship as well so thank you for that i never said i didn't thank you for the person is thank you to you all right we good look my frustration with the podcast is that i'm not gonna keep it going look my frustration over your moderation boiled off into a couple of tweets last week i did not mean to hurt your feelings i was just trying to give you a note okay if you would take the notes in private i would give you them to you in private i do think that overall you're a great moderator your contribution to the show is absolutely necessary and essential never disputed that i think we should keep doing the show um i didn't expect you to block me honestly i didn't expect your feelings to be hurt by me i didn't expect you to block me i didn't expect you to block me to be so hurt by what I said and so yeah look I apologize for that all I wanted to do is give you a note and I would appreciate if you could try and respect my note not mischaracterize it I think you know what I'm saying right I just want the chance to be able to present my views without the audience prejudging them because you know that certain labels will not go over well with our audience okay it'd be like introducing Chamath as the Michael Milken of SPACs okay there is I edited that out I'm not saying he is no I'm saying it would be as if you did that right you understand what you'd be doing if you labeled him that way I don't think that is a fair label in fairness I thought the labeling and the joking about you being the token Republican was a meta joke about the fact that Silicon Valley doesn't have too many of you and Teals and Reboys etc there's a small cohort I think the whole point of what we were trying to say is Silicon Valley's heads up their ass I agree so maybe so maybe the problem maybe the problem we've we've identified is all these left-leaning people are just sniffing their own balls basically running to a cliff sweating balls yeah a lot of my views like on free speech are the old center left exactly and now you're for universal health care look at you I haven't moved the whole world's gone crazy I mean everyone supported free speech until five minutes ago okay that's what I went on Tucker to discuss you were free market about uh education and you were free market about about the whole world about health care and now you're like I mean we should have health care and safety nets I I am I am a believer in in markets all right Jason let's start go let's start the show three two hey everybody hey everybody the all-in podcast is back besties unblocked with us again the rain man himself David Sachs and David Freeburg the queen of kinwa and from his Italian hideaway gallivanting in Italy Chamath Polyharmonic University and the dictator big news for besties this week Robinhood um has filed their s1 and paid a fin refine 70 million dollars for outages and misleading customers multiple days of outages back in March 2020 we talked about here and poor communications around options trading risks Robinhood's s1 highlighted some extraordinary uh growth during that period as we discussed on the pod 18 million funded accounts and they're on a two billion dollar run rate 522 million dollars in revenue in the first quarter up 4x and uh monthly active users have more than doubled 8.6 million accounts to 17.7 million uh just for in the last year revenue was up 300 percent any thoughts on Robinhood's s1 obviously I'm an interested party it's the largest fine ever I think of this type but on the dinner's largest fine I think of this type but on the other hand it's the largest fine yeah yeah so it should be a black eye for the company but the reality is that they're happy to pay the fine and just move on so they don't have this issue hanging over their heads anymore and now they're going to be able to IPO at like a 50 60 70 billion dollar valuation and so for them it's just sort of cost of doing business I think there's something a little bit off about that but um that's kind of how it works freeburg anything I mean congrats to you J Cal looks like you're gonna do really well with this deal huh it will return roughly this one deal will do three or four times the value of the first fund the launch fund one which was 11 million dollars did you invest in the seed round or the a or what round did you invest in I think it was the seed round um and so what's your multiple going to be on a 50 billion dollar market cap you know uh it would be 500x amazing amazing congrats big boy yeah it's a congrats Jake Allen I'm happy to see that you're successful I'm really happy for you your success is finally catching up to your ego and so I think here we go I think that's it too soon too soon too soon your net worth is catching up to your waist size congrats oh God uh well actually between this and the composition uh I'm uh you know listen it's a long way to go before we distribute obviously but that first fund I did which came after the Scouts fund my Sequoia Scouts portfolio my only advice to you Jason is talk talk to a few seasoned GPs like girly Fred Wilson and figure out the right distribution strategy one of the biggest things that I see these folks do is early stage Venture investors thinking that they're public market investors trying to time the market trying to figure out how to do distributions and it never works which means do you hold the shares for another year or two I would distribute them I would distribute them immediately book the win move on yeah you know it's interesting a lot of the top firms that I'm in are holding their shares and I I had a firm that had uh Square and they held some number of them until it's 7x and then distributed so I guess technically they get to book that win what are your thoughts on that sax of when to distribute and how are you doing in your fund yeah I mean it's a good question um the reality is that you know let's say that you're in year four or five of a 10-year fund you could hold the shares for another five years and if the shares go up over that five-year period you'll you'll do better so I think the question on IR your numbers will look better well I mean you're you're compensated on the absolute amount of return that you generate and so it might be if you distribute the shares and then if you're in carry and you just hold the shares you'll realize the same gains you know you're not well it depends what happens to the stock price I guess I guess what I would say is hold on a second if the stock were to go 10x and you get 20 of those shares if there were 100 shares you had 20 if a 10x you're still getting 20 percent right Shama so it nets out to the same if you hold the shares yourself personally this is why I think that if you're in the business of running uh a multi-faceted defund business I think you're better off generally and I think again if you talk to the best firms out there they typically will not try to guess what's going to happen in the public markets they distribute and they move on to their next fund um and then because you have to remember the IRRs you know you go through these rough patches it decays quickly and all of a sudden something that looks great can start to look not so great and the example of that might be snowflake or something going down after it went public and if you had distributed it you would have booked the fund at that high multiple yeah and then then you're thinking to yourself wow I hope it goes back up and then you're like well when do I distribute it's all if these are all not things that Venture Capitalists should be engaged in they should be there to help build the next the next David versus Goliath I think the the counter argument to that is if you really believe in the company and think you understand it better than the public markets do or or because you've been on the board and you have information you know if you hold it for another yes there's going to be ups and downs but let's say that you plan to hold it for another four or five years um yeah you'll still get the same 20 25 carry but um the point at which that carry will crystallize would be at like a much higher level and so essentially you're preventing your LPs from selling is what you're doing and so you may get an extra turn of your fund by doing that how do we feel as LPs David freeberg but there's sorry there's also isn't there like a um I'm just trying to pull up the Goldman Sachs report they did in 2019 where they analyzed 4 500 IPOs over a 25-year period um and I think that and I could be wrong on this but if I remember some summary of this I'm trying to find it so I can't find it right now um but that they uh basically highlighted that IPOs as an index generally outperform the market over some period of time whether it's one year or three years and so if you have access to those IPO shares assume you're a venture investor you can beat the S P by 10 15 points just generally without having any thought about the business itself or the company itself um and you know you know participate in 20 carry on the upside from there or 25 carrying the upside from there um and so generally the rule of thumb becomes well you shouldn't distribute right away you should hold is that not kind of a common dogma amongst GPs nowadays look at Square look at Square I mean Square had all like most of the appreciation happened in the public markets I think Sequoia held onto their Square shares did way way better because nobody sold effectively for several years and I mean they do this right I mean like you you hear from girly and others that you know they hold onto these shares for years and you know a good business going public uh has a much better chance of uh performing well as a public company than you know just tracking the S P uh after an IPO regardless of the valuation it exits at well how do we feel as LPs Chamath your LPs in a lot of terrible I'm in 15 terrible you you want your shares I I don't know no offense to any GP out there but I don't think they're as good of a public market investor as I am so give me the shares I'll manage it myself uh and get out of the way um I I give money to a lot of to your point a lot of GPs because I want private market exposure I don't want them speculating in the public markets for me I do that for myself and so I would rather just get the shares and make my own decision um you know a lot of foundations for example are in the situation where they're there to fund programs so if they have a you know multi-hundred million dollar position in a great company and they can't fund a program or the you know a hospital system can't do what they need to do because some GP is speculating in the public markets I think it's insane so give you give it give give the LPs the money and move on it's not your job otherwise you should run a generalized fund and most people don't because they can't generally how do you guys when you are a large owner in a company that goes public or just say the pool of Venture investors or owners in a company that goes public and the lock up is expiring you know typically six months after the IPO and you can now distribute your shares to your LPs do those um you know investors take note of or have concern about the impact it might have on the stock price when they're making those distribution decisions typically I think they think about that but a lot of these LPs particularly the non-profits they're forced day one sellers the minute that they get the stock that just like as soon as the stock gets distributed everyone's selling and the stock takes a hit right and I think yeah you know what there's something happening I mean uh this is speculation um that I don't have so just you know take it as that but my understanding was some investment banks went to the uh and Shamath might know the background on this went to some of the major LPs in the world I'll leave it at that and said hey you have a position in I don't know this cab company um it's going public it's fully valued or it's very well valued would you like to collar your shares uh before that and we will take them off your hands uh and and lock you into a certain price for some percentage of it basically end running the GP's decision-making process of course there's a lot about that happens this is why I'm saying I think the GP is better off if you're in the Venture Fund business be in the Venture Fund business do a great job at that raise funds distribute cash do what you're supposed to do but please don't try to do some it's kind of like asking you know the firemen to also operate on you no I don't want that take me to the hospital and let the doctor do the job I think from a perspective I think it's probably the baseline that VC should operate from but I do think there are exceptions where if the VC has been on a company board for a while it feels like they have they understand the company better than the public markets especially during the first two years as a public company when the markets can be really choppy and the company's trying to find its level and people don't really understand it I think there is an argument for the VC having expertise in in that initial public run then they might be doing their LPs a favor by holding but but look I think Tremas point is well taken also uh companies are going public earlier so this is going to become a bigger issue because it's an easy decision in year 11 if you were an Uber investor an Airbnb investor to say okay it's been 11 years we're going to give you your shares but if you're in year five and the company goes out so early you know you could make an argument hey maybe we hold it for two or three years just going back on the previous topic Jcal the um the FINRA news on Robin right so FINRA just so everyone understands it's not a government regulator it's a private entity yeah it's called a self-regulatory organization and these SROs are basically they have a board and a you know a bunch of people that run them but they're pooled and managed by all the participants the private participants in the markets of Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley JP Morgan and all the banks they are all part of the FINRA SRO and so the way that these SROs are set up is to avoid government regulation and to avoid government intervention in markets and allows the markets to effectively self-regulate themselves in a way that everyone in the market is kind of keeping an eye on each other and making sure that this is being taken care of and I think one thing to take note of from this fine is that it telegraphs that FINRA and the markets in general the market participants in general may be rather concerned and rather worried about government intervention in some of these new markets and emerging fintech practices because they wanted to say look we put the gauntlet down on Robin Hood we made them pay the biggest fine ever we made them pay 70 million dollars stay away we're taking care of it because the concern everyone's had is that AOC and Elizabeth Warren and a bunch of people on Capitol Hill are waving flags saying we need to step in we need to regulate these companies we need to regulate these practices we need to protect consumers and so this fine really signals that the market is a bit concerned that the government is going to come in and start trying to tell fintech companies how to practice and how to operate and generally tell all the company you know market participants how to operate which is a very scary prospect for them so to me this was really this this was really big news about what it telegraphs the backdoor conversations are you know that are going on with market participants right now what you're almost saying is that this is a benefit to Robin Hood to pay the largest fine because it it says to the you know to the politicians look we've already been punished in this you know maximal way you don't need to layer it on top so in a way it's better for Robin Hood that they paid 70 million instead of 10 million yeah and it's not it's not by the way it's not even for Robin Hood I think all the market participants JP Morgan Goldman Sachs they all have huge you know tech teams and they all have acquired fintech companies and they are all trying to go digital and everyone is worried about the government intervening and changing how this business is transforming because as soon as the government gets involved it's going to slow down the transformation it's going to you know make things much more challenging and I think that everyone's trying to keep the government at bay while the great digital transformation of markets is underway um and uh and I think that's like the biggest signal from this this fin refine and there's there's some interesting nuances there that they brought up something like the confetti so when you buy something on Robin Hood it used to explode confetti gamification they're like oh we're going to take that out and you know if you go to Vegas they've got bells and whistles going off everywhere when you place a bet uh and so it is a little bit of window dressing I think it's also interesting that you bring up the self-regulatory organizations there's two other equivalents for people who are thinking about this the MPA motion picture Association uh which was formed back in 1922 because people had the same fear about movies and Valentini I think was the the guy who really uh changed uh how movies were perceived in the PG-13 era allowing a lot more violence Terminator those kind of movies and then you had a similar thing happen in the video game industry in 90s does Robin Hood still have like the lawsuits with like the the the the the the like uh Massachusetts uh there's like 10 other lawsuits class actions Etc about um no no no but these are more like with with government entities right like like didn't Massachusetts try to stay to state attorney general yeah something like that I think right yeah I don't know um but the other one that was very interesting was the um esrb which is the entertainment software ratings board because video games like Mortal Kombat and those and Doom were you know had to self-regulate right um um so either you regulate yourself Jason tomato's asking a question about losses at Robin Hood I know I was trying to deflect them I noticed come on man can we move on to the Delta variant because I'm supposed to be hysterically afraid of getting covet now because I've been vaccinated people keep talking about there's this Delta variant it's spreading and then I'm hearing one set of information which is if you're vaccinated it's not an issue and then uh other folks are going on TV saying this is going to be like we're going to have to put masks back on in California I can't find any data about how many actual cases there are but according to the uscdc 46 percent of the total U.S population has been vaccinated now uh and New York New Jersey California all well above 50 some people are in the 60 of adults 70 of adults Florida is still trailing but I can't and people are saying this is going to become the dominant variant freebreak how should we look at the Delta variant if you're vaccinated and then how should we look at it in terms of are we going to go through mandatory masks again which people are starting to signal already in certain uh coastal cities yeah so Trevor Bedford's a great guy to follow on this uh he's a epidemiologist virologist who um on Twitter on Twitter yeah uh trvrb is his uh Twitter handle and so he's aggregated a bunch of good data so there was a paper published two days ago out of the UK where they are trying to estimate the um uh you know the reproduction rate of the Delta variant and it looks like it's about 1.3 that means for every person that gets infected with the Delta variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus that's the are not you're talking about that's that's yeah some people call are not yeah and so um it turns out that you know that number is higher than what we saw with the original SARS CoV-2 which I think was probably closer to 1.1 or so and so um you know what that means is this Delta variant is much more infectious right it could spread through the air the proteins could last in oxygen much longer and not degrade all these different reasons why it might be kind of more infectious um and there are some cases of people that have been vaccinated but this is not the predominance of what we're seeing that have tested positive for having this Delta variant but are having mild to moderate symptoms there aren't at this point a lot of people there's not a lot of data to indicate that this is actually kind of like a lethal risk or fatal risk to people that have been vaccinated in case of Delta variant and so there's a lot of data to indicate that this is the case in fact that seems to be not true and one way that that data is kind of demonstrated right now is there was another analysis that was done where they showed what is the reproduction rate of this variant based on what percentage of the population has been vaccinated by state and they show that you know for a state that's had maybe 30 percent of its population vaccinated the are not is closer to 1.35 when 60 of the state is vaccinated the are not is just at one and so there's this you know this is a you know negatively correlated kind of relationship between how many people have been vaccinated and how much this variant is transmitting and that makes intuitive sense right like if people are vaccinated they're not going to get infected the virus isn't going to hop from person to person to person now when you do the analysis of what percentage of the U.S population is unvaccinated and how reproductive this virus is a lot of epidemiologists are saying that the models indicate that we could see up to 10 percent of the U.S population now get hit with this variant and what we don't know is what percentage of people actually had you know SARS-CoV-2 in the first run around last year but we are seeing this this variant pop up now the fatality rate doesn't appear to be much higher than what we saw with SARS-CoV-2 the first time around and and so there's no indication to say like hey this is going to be much more lethal so when you combine those factors it seems like at this point you know the the death rates in the U.S are remaining flat and stable while we are going to see and may expect to see a continuing upsurge surge up in terms of the number of cases are we going to require masks this goes back to kind of my previous point about I think we've kind of normalized ourselves to masks and shutdowns and lockdowns and all the stuff that we did last year thinking that it had an effect a recent paper showed that lockdowns had no effect on the reproduction rate in the United States because at the end of the day what if a government says lockdown or government says put masks on people still have a tendency to do whatever the hell they want to do and at least in the United States that is the case that is not the case likely in Asian countries where we did see an effect of lockdowns and masks um but in the United States these uh these restrictions uh obviously had adverse economic effects but didn't seem to have a strong epidemiological effect um based on a recent paper that I will share uh in this thing so so what are we going to do I don't know I feel like we've normalized mass we've normalized lockdowns we've normalized these responses but SARS-CoV-2 is going to be here forever and it is going to cycle through variants and that's the concern right in the world let me make a prediction I think that what at the end of this thing what I think I have come to the conclusion of is there was a lot of unknowns that got perverted into hysteria and mania by a handful of organizations to basically uh sequester power and what we realized is that these people were incompetent and they didn't know what they were doing because you ended up in the same place with all of these different distributions of actions and so now I think when you have this other variant I think there's a growing sensation by a lot of people not just Americans that the CDC the who whoever it is is probably at best guessing and at worst making it up and the ultimate result is there this it's almost as if they like being drunk with power and so I think the last part of what you said freeburg is what I really agree with which is that this is not going to be tolerated anymore and the reason is because they are also politicizing science and what they're doing is when they don't know they're making poor guesses in the name of science which is just as bad so you know I don't know what's going to happen with the Delta variant maybe a lot maybe a little but as far as I can tell I think people are tired of uninformed impacts to their lives and they're not going to put up with it anymore Saks chances California goes back to lockdowns or some sort of mask mandates uh well well they are they're they're imposing mass mandates indoors in places like LA and you have the teachers unions the the National Education Union is now putting down all these conditions on going back to school in the fall so I think you could be in a situation where we do not have they will call it school reopening but we will not have five day a week in person learning and the schools the public schools that have it are going to have all sorts of incentives and I think that's going to be a big issue for the rest of the world.

I think that's going to be a big issue for the rest of the world. of insane restrictions and conditions like making kids who really aren't at risk for covid even even the Delta variant they're going to force them to wear masks they're going to um enforce this ridiculous social distancing they're talking about making the kids who aren't vaccinated sit at a separate table like the outcasts I mean it's insane what they're talking about doing so why is that insane David not to interrupt you but I'm just curious how much you unpack that because so so look I I'm I'm pro vaccine you know I think adults should get vaccinated I don't think my kids need to get vaccinated I don't think that is a wise policy to to force kids to get vaccinated they're at very low risk for getting the virus they're very low risk for transmitting the virus if they get it and even if they get it they're at almost no risk for it being harmful or you know to cause serious illness or death and so to impose all these restrictions on kids it's like we're living in a time warp you know back to last summer when we didn't know as much about the virus I mean to chamas point they're imposing all these restrictions which are just unscientific and it really seems like the real point is to create excuses for the teachers not to have to go back to work and you know you know a school system is borked when the truancy is on the part of the teachers not the students the students want to go back the teachers want to be truant it's like they want to be on permanent vacation forever it is a really broken system by the way let me just highlight um you know to support uh the concern that I think people like like people that sax is kind of speaking to might be having um a research letter was published in the Journal um of the American medalist Medical Association two days ago a lead researcher was a guy named Harold Walsh and this paper is going viral amongst kind of the um you know the the scientific and medical Community right now and what these guys did is they measured the carbon dioxide content of children's lungs um from wearing masks and so they were trying to identify like is this a risk to children to actually be wearing masks health-wise and the results are pretty scary it turns out that you know um in in in air in in ambient air 0.07 percent by volume is carbon dioxide when a normal and then they measured kids you know randomized control double blind you know here's we're not double blind but randomized control there's kids that have masks and kids that don't have the kids that don't have masks their carbon dioxide when they exhale is about 0.28 percent when you have to wear a surgical mask your carbon dioxide increases to 1.3 percent um and uh you know when they looked at this in a more detailed way it turns out that it could be as high as 3.8 percent and so this starts to reach a medical level that is concerning for doctors that having these kids wear masks for hours a day could actually be having an adverse health effect because it is increasing the carbon dioxide content of their blood because you know their lungs aren't strong enough to breathe all this carbon dioxide out it builds up in their body and so there is a now a counterpoint that is being made by scientists and doctors that maybe the benefit of the safety we might get from kids wearing masks and spreading the virus is um outweighed uh by the uh um the cost of their health as a result of wearing these masks and to ask kids to wear masks for eight hours a day or five hours a day for nine months a year um we're just now waking up to the fact that there may actually be consequences to this and I'm not making a strong it's like it's like it's like child abuse so we sent our five-year-old to a summer camp in LA okay and the camp is outside and all the the adults are vaccinated okay but they're making the kids wear masks and it's no fun you know and they can't play sports the way they need to and we just said the hell with this and we took them out now what I don't understand is why people aren't laying this at the feet of Gavin Newsom this is a hundred percent his order you know all he has to do is say listen we don't need these rules anymore it's kids it's outside and all the adults are vaccinated what is the point of this and you know and I think we have this recall election now that's been scheduled for mid-September you know right now it looks like Newsom's going to cruise to to to winning but if we had a candidate in California who could say listen we need five day a week in you know in person schooling in the fall no exception all the teachers need to go back to work or they're going to need to be looking for new jobs we're not going to kowtow and give in to all these unnecessary unscientific restrictions okay because Newsom will not make that guarantee I think they could they could basically steal this thing we don't have anyone standing up saying that and I think the closer we get to the start of school if we don't have that kind of five day a week instruction I think parents are going to be up in arms about this I think they will be and I think what we're going to prove is none of these folks really know what they're talking about and so they will make it up and someone will have some shred of evidence about something on either side of any topic and all it'll do is obfuscate and confuse and the end of it will be somebody imposing something onto you that will have a negative impact on your life but for their benefit in the teachers for their benefit like I don't want to go back there's I mean listen I want to say all teachers don't want to go back to school I know a lot of teachers want to go back to school and teach kids and take the masks off because it's insufferable no you I think you can say the union and separated from teachers exactly yeah I don't think it's all teachers it's some percentage of teachers but I think we're going to move David freeberg correct me if I'm wrong here we're going to move to a two-class system here if you're vaccinated you get one set of rules and if you're not vaccinated you get another and this is where David I think kids who are over the age of 11 or 12 who do get vaccinated they shouldn't have to wear a mask at school but then well sorry can I just say something this is what the insanity of this thing is it's like okay we're going to throw around again we're probably going to use the word equity uh when we make these new rules but then fine why don't you just create a school that has everybody in it who is vaccinated well I don't I don't even understand I don't understand this because all of us are vaccinated so our we don't need to worry about it so in other words we're going to impose restrictions on people and force kids or whoever to get vaccinated to protect whom if all the adults are vaccinated we're not protecting anybody all we're doing is protecting I guess unvaccinated adults that makes no sense to me well they're taking the risk right I mean if you're choosing to not get the vaccine at this point freeberg you're taking some significant level of risk or some moderate level does the government have a responsibility to protect that person I don't think it matters what I think matters is remember like the societal responsibility is not and cannot be to protect every individual the societal responsibility is to make sure that society functions and um and if we take a zoom back and I just want everyone to reset your brains go back to March of last year and we were talking about the surge of deaths in hospitals and hospitals were going to be overwhelmed and that was the reason we needed to go into lockdowns and the reason we needed to stop the surge even if this Delta variant is highly infectious there are enough people and people vaccinated in the United States at this point that this Delta variant is not going to crush our hospital system it's not going to cause massive amount of fatalities which is the reason we went into lockdowns in the first place all of the concerns that we had last year that rationalized a lot of the extreme behavior that we undertook no longer exists and we are now talking about continuing those those behaviors under a different set of standards and the set of standards is now I can't put a teacher at risk I can't put an individual at risk and even if that individual got infected if the fatality rate is so low I can still say well they should die therefore I can't have them exposed right and that has become the new standards what I think Saxon that that article kind of talked about a zeroism you know you get to a point if you're if you're fighting a war on a battlefield and you're like well I can't let any of my soldiers die we can't move down the field you're not going to move down the field you're not going to win the war and I'm not saying that this is a war the point is society has to progress the economy has to progress people's lives have to progress people have to be educated life is about progress and if we progress because of the concern that any individual might get harmed because of the progress of the group as a whole we will not go anywhere and we've created a new set of standards that I think creates that very reality and it is frightening let me let me let me put a finer point on this which is just this coat this Delta variant is just more covid fear porn okay this is the third variant of concern where they've been you know running around alarm saying that you know we have to worry the truth is is it more transmissible yes it is going to I think sweep through areas of the country in the fall that aren't vaccinated but the question is how does it perform against the vaccines and so far the vaccines are holding up the the variants none of the variants have really punched through the vaccines in a meaningful way I think the stats on Pfizer were it's it was it maybe reduced the effectiveness from 95 to 88 or something like that but it wasn't a material difference if you are double Vax with Pfizer you are protected against the Delta variant and so this is just more fear porn that they keep pumping I'm agree I'm in agreement with you and I think this reminds me of when we were growing up in the 80s they tried to scare us about sex and HIV and were you not going to have sex if you were in your 20s in the 90s and into the 80s no you learned about HIV you learned to use condoms you learned that you you probably couldn't do uh you know what people did in the 60s and 70s which had many many partners you maybe had to have fewer partners maybe longer term partners but you could you could take your own risk by putting on a condom you could make that decision for yourself here I think there's a group of people who don't want anybody to make any decisions for themselves and in this case the vaccine is wearing a condom if you're wearing a condom like your chance of getting HIV go down dramatically is just a known fact and we're at 263 people on average dying a day how many of those Friedberg do you think are with covid versus from covid if you had to take a guess I have I have always I I hate doing this because then people think it's like an inhuman analysis but the way that um actuaries or economists would kind of take a look at this sort of decision tree and this sort of data is the number of life years lost okay um so imagine someone is going to die tomorrow if someone's going to die tomorrow and they catch covid today and they die a day early you have lost a life day and everyone yes that is absolutely devastating and it is awful emotionally but like when we're making big decisions we have to think with the data and so um if someone catches covid and they and they lose five years and they die five years early then they statistically would have died that's five life years lost when a child dies you are losing 68 life years right that is an incredible loss of life is one is one way to kind of think about this statistically and so um you know part of I think what's been missing in the equation and it's easy to tell the narrative by speaking about people that have dead that have died that tested positive for covid when they died is it now speaks to the fact that this is a binary experience and there's a binary number of lives lost but the statistical the data-driven exercise which may sound inhuman and may sound awful but again we have to make these decisions using data if we're going to make large decisions that are going to impact everyone in a meaningful way is to look at the number of life years lost and I think if you were to do that you would still find that the vast majority of deaths associated with covid are very elderly people who are already very close to dying and that's why we are seeing the fatality rates so low right now in the United States even though covid is still spreading with the Delta variant it is because almost 90 percent of people over 70 have been vaccinated and as a result the people that are most at risk of dying are well protected and we are not seeing a significant loss of life associated with this terrible virus the terrible virus is still spreading but the life loss is still not there now someone might raise their hand and say well we don't know the long-term implications long-term ramifications long-haul covid yeah I would raise my other hand and say show me what the data is that says that there are those long-term implications ramifications because I can say the what ifs about anything and then implement any policy decision I want by just saying what if and we don't know we have to say we do know here's the data in order to make a tough decision versus saying we need to be you know protective and use the protective you know principle of um of precaution or the precautionary principle and be really careful in these circumstances uh because at this point the impact and the damage associated with some of our practices to quote unquote guard against covid and and you know protect people it's turning out there real consequences to those decisions all right freeberg final question on covid uh should you wear two condoms in other words should you get materna and Pfizer or J&J and Pfizer there are studies coming out now to say one plus one equals three there is some super effect of getting two I am looking into this I'm thinking I'm going to get a second vaccine I might get you to get a modern or a Pfizer or J&J just don't wait don't waste the vaccine shots let them go to other countries you know not needed not needed even though the studies are starting to show it gives you increased I mean do you need your test do you need your Tesla to go from 180 to 185 miles an hour I mean like you know that's a good point I mean look everything we learn about the vaccines makes them look better and better the protection lasts longer than we thought the um they're more effective against variants than people were afraid of and now we have learned that there is even more protection by sort of this mix and match idea so the vaccines have worked there are still I think a couple of groups in America that are very vaccine hesitant um evangelicals and African Americans are the two groups I thought it was male Republicans it's it's more like evangelicals and so in a place like Mississippi where you have large numbers of both the vaccine rates only like 29 30 it's actually pretty low in a place like that you could see the Delta variant sweep through in the fall and you could see a lot of cases I you know let me let me buck your labeling categorization of me Jake by saying that I don't think the leaders on the right are doing anyone any favors any of their voters any favors by not coming out and saying look the vaccines work you know I think Trump could do a lot of good by coming out and just saying listen I got the vaccine I'm pretty sure he did right he did he did and so you know I think if you are in one of those groups you know and certainly you're over like 40 you should be getting the vaccine I mean they work not to harp on this but what did Trump say when you suggested he come out publicly about nobody's listening to me nobody's no it's fine nobody's listening to me obviously I mean it is very weird that Trump spent massive amounts of money on the vaccine and now doesn't want to take credit for Project Lightspeed by telling everybody to get it I think he's got a lot of other issues I think he's got a lot of other issues on the plate to deal with including an indictment that just landed yesterday so maybe you know maybe he just doesn't know what to focus on because he he sees his uh his budding Empire unraveling before him did you see the report that said that Trump was extremely thrilled by the fact that his CFO was indicted for two reasons one is it kind of um indicates that they didn't have enough to go after him and two is it's going to make Joe Biden look bad and his administration look bad uh because it looks like they're being kind of prosecuted and persecuted now but that he views this as a positive and it and it and he's thinking about it as a way to kind of stage a 2024 run well I didn't I didn't see that particular story but I do think that okay well what the charges show I think is that they got nothing on Trump directly um I mean this turned out to be a big nothing burger after years of investigation just like the whole Russia thing and so it's 15 felony counts let's finish this point Trump was not let me finish Trump Trump was not named they didn't get close to Trump all they got was they're trying to charge uh wesselheim who's a CFO with basically receiving certain perks as compensation violations it was crazy yeah this is penny Annie stuff it does look like persecution rather than prosecution and what they're trying to do is they're going after this guy wesselheim to squeeze him to try and roll over on Trump well good luck with that that's about as likely to happen as uh Putin releasing the p tapes not going to happen sorry J Cal Trump is getting away so one thing I would say I think that I disagree with respectfully is um this is a 15-year uh tax avoidance scheme that included more than TNA included people getting their tuition paid for for free and free apartments so the Jason would be and then hold on they then knowingly did this and changed the books knowingly so they caught them going into their accounting and changing to hide it and so the cover-up worse than the crime this is an explicit way to not pay their taxes this would be if all of us took our personal residences and our kids private school tuition and didn't pay taxes on it's it's significant Jason so the total amount for example that this guy got in uh tuition reimbursements over this 15-year period was about three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars the total amount of some other rent perks that he got was for about 1.6 or seven million dollars the total amount of value that I think his son got you know was spending a thousand dollars a month in a Trump owned apartment when you add it all up for a guy that was accused of you know being in cahoots with Russia this and that and everything you pinch the CFO for a few million dollars of effectively again T and E let's just say that he did it you know some of these checks came directly from from Trump it I think I agree with David it's a bit of a nothing burger and it really does look like it's politically motivated and the reason is because these kinds of Chargers are typically not brought these are things that typically result in a civil penalty a restatement and you just kind of move on you know nobody nobody's trying to send somebody to jail for you know getting for mis miscategorizing I have a theory because we don't have full information and they weren't investigating this stuff before Trump became a politician um why weren't why this if this has been going on for 15 years why didn't this investigation happen five six seven years ago I could tell you what his um the daughter-in-law of weisselbergs uh was uh received a lot of these perks and then she dropped a dime and gave all the documents to them my theory on this is because we don't have complete information yet I think that they have other I think they have this bigger tax uh case around making the assets look um smaller when paying taxes and inflating the value of the assets when getting loans and I think they want to get that and the way to get that is to flip weisselberg because Trump does not use email and Communications I think that that's what's going on here um but yes you're right they're trying to they're trying to flip him look the the KGB had a saying show us the man will tell you the crime okay they decided we're gonna go after Trump this is entirely political they weren't interested in him five six seven years ago once he got into politics they became interested in him he became the man and now they are trying to roll up and flip all these people and try to get them to turn on Trump and give them something these Democratic Pitbull prosecutors they are going to make Trump look like the victim here this will rebound I think in a negative way it is a really stupid thing that they're doing I mean this this could have happened in so many different ways the guy was finished and washed up right he was in his little hovel in Florida you know no Twitter account you know in the one no Twitter account no access to his base um the one time he actually showed up in New York two or three weeks ago I don't know if you guys saw the photos he looks so disheveled so old so broken let the guy wither into obscurity but instead you pin these charges you create an entire press cycle you're going to rally so many people on the right and actually a lot of people in general who feel like wait what are we doing as a country why don't we just let it just be be done with this guy I don't ever want to hear about him ever again and instead we're kind of like bringing it all back front center I just think it's a bad look what do you think about the insurrection commission do you think that that should um should be disbanded as well because no you think that should that should be pursued yeah because that's not necessarily about Trump that it is about a whole totality of things that really will lead into the fact that we have a lot of far right organizations that need to be understood we have one far left organization that needs to be understood all in the same light which is that these folks are destabilizing force to democracy and so yeah you got to get to the bottom of what the hell happened sex do you do you think the insurrection commission is going to be equally kind of politically motivating for uh for Trump's face and for folks like that well I just think that you have to decide as a country whether you're going to keep re-litigating you know what happened in the previous administration I mean if we're going to go back and keep this going you know we're going to go back and look at why did the FBI use the steel dossier to go to a FISA court to spy on members of the Trump campaign had there were 17 misrepresentations in their uh in their petition to the FISA court I mean there was clear misconduct there we're going to go back and re-litigate that and go after people and punish them look maybe we should okay but I think that's the the the the the the the the the the the maybe we should okay but I think that this is the thing about politics everyone just wants to move forward we're in a new administration now whatever misconduct occurred I think the punishment was paid at the ballot box I think it's just time to move on and I agree with that and I look I know there's gonna be a lot of partisans on both sides who just want to go re-litigate and punish their enemies forever but you know I think the American people just want to move forward yeah what do you and the far what are you and the far left want to do right well I'm not on the far left I mean I I think that there is a I do think that there is a bunch of gamesmanship here I think this is a a chess board that on the left they're saying if we we if we have a chance to take Trump out of political life we need to do that because the cost of him getting re-elected in 2024 is too great and so what we're talking about here is you know what is the best path to doing that and you know chamath's right like just letting him fade into obscurity he may not want to run again because he's so old and it's so painful to be present he's 75 I mean he's going to be 78 or no 70 he'll be the same age as Biden going I I mean this is ridiculous both of these two guys are one-term presidents I think that is abundantly clear I think the question is what is Biden's transition plan you know does he actually only stay two years and transitions it to kamala I don't know but there's no way that he's running for a second term either he does not look healthy I think that much is at least and I'm saying this as you know a centrist Democrat he doesn't look completely fit um and it's only going to get worse and this is the most incredibly stressful job in the world neither of these two guys are our long term solution it's time to let it all go right it's like we had four years of just chaos we now get to have four years to catch our breath it's time to find the late 40s to mid 50s centrist normal people again and we have three years to do it who do you think that is uh on the Republican side and who do you think it is on the Democrat side who's going to run for the next election cycle because just this morning by the way an article came out that um highlighted that several Insiders in the White House are completely like up in arms about how uh chaotic uh Kamala Harris's office is going to run for the next election cycle because just this morning by the way an article came out that highlighted that several insiders in the White House are completely like up in arms about how chaotic uh Kamala Harris's office is going to run for the next election cycle because just this morning by the way an article came out that highlighted that several insiders in the White House are completely like up in arms about how chaotic uh Kamala Harris's office is which is basically a way of starting to shoot her down right so if you think about the the motivation here someone in the White House is starting to shoot Kamala Harris down which means they're starting to weaken her a little bit in terms of whether she could actually be a good replacement for the next term I don't know if that's truly the motivation but that's typically what these sorts of stories indicate so if not her if not her who on the Democrat side and you know if not Trump who on the Republican side in the next election cycle because those folks are going to start to win I think the I think the person who has enough credibility to take a shot it's not clear that she will but if she did she would be really serious and she could actually get people to be relatively normal as Nikki Haley on the right but Ron DeSantis is going to be the rights candidate correct and she's kind of normal DeSantis is definitely the early front runner um there was a straw poll in which he was the first Republican to actually run ahead of Trump in a straw poll for what four or five years and uh so yeah it looks like um he now he's running for reelection in Florida in 2022 so that's on his plate and but I think it looks like he's going to sweep to victory he made the right decisions on lockdowns this is the central feather in his cap that before any other governor really he looked at the data saw that to freeberg's point lockdowns don't make a difference he went back to normal the state benefited you look at per capita covet deaths in Florida it's middle of the pack which is actually a really good result given how many old people they have so he did a phenomenal job I think setting covet policy in Florida and he did it in the face of a hostile media that was just tearing him limb from limb and so he showed that he not only can find the right policy but that he's got the spine to stand up for it and I think as a result of that yeah he has galvanized early in the Republican base if he wins reelection in 2022 by uh by a strong margin I think he does become the putative front runner for 2024.

very similar in a way I think to the way that that George W Bush you know he he basically won reelection in Texas two years before he ran for president and on the heels of that victory he was able to make the case look I just got re-elected I'm very popular in a huge state of the country you know I should be the front runner I think DeSantis is in a similar position what do you think about Nikki Haley sex I think Nikki Haley is sort of popular with the establishment wing of the Republican Party but she does not bring together both the the sort of the establishment wing with the populist wing and what DeSantis has been able to do is get the business Republicans and the establishment Republicans to get behind him as well as the populist Trump base loves him and that's that's the um that's the combo you gotta have I think to to win the Republican nomination and so Nikki Haley I think you know everybody who sort of reads Elite media is going to over index on her but if you go to the the straw polls and the rallies she's not just not going to perform in those polls there's a very interesting article in politico though over the past week about how DeSantis is being very careful not to do anything to upset Trump and I think he understands is he the VP candidate with Trump you think well that that pre-assumes a lot of things happen happening I mean look we don't know what's going to happen I think that you know the the number one way to resurrect Trump is what Jamas said is to keep poking that bear to fill him with the the rage to to sort of counter punch and come back I think it would be better however for a new generation of leaders to look we have we're being run by a gerontocracy right now so I mean just Biden is 78 Pelosi is 80.

Schumer is 77. McConnell is 80 and Trump is 75 and that's today okay in 2024 all those people are going to be in their 80s or just about who will even be alive I mean Feinstein will be 91 or 92. it's time to have a new generation in both parties why are we being run by this gerontocracy what a joke do we want to move on to the drought and impending uh death and or the Facebook FTC dismissal oh that was incredible and also at the uh FTC got two gut punches in a row uh and then you know Amazon writes this petition to recuse Lena Khan it's like that's why she was hired incredible she was hired because she's an expert on Amazon the the Amazon the Amazon letter was actually extremely well written and basically said I know that she's in charge of basically finding fairness and fairness seems to be that we will get legislated but we believe that it's unfair to us so please take her out of a mix I just think it was fantastic I mean it's incredible point of having her in the job it's like we've hired a new prosecutor who specializes in organized crime and the Gambino crime family has petitioned to have them exactly recused from doing any organized crime right their argument is that she should be recused because she published articles yeah that Amazon should be broken up and they're saying she's already prejudged the situation there's no way this is gonna fly there's no way she's gonna get recused but I think what they're trying to do is put an argument on appeal so that if Lena Khan does break them up somehow they can then go appeal to the stream Court or wherever and and this is basically reserving an argument they can make later so just to highlight the FTC um brought this case against Facebook saying that they're a Monopoly and their monopolistic practices are damaging the market the DC federal court threw out the case and they basically said that the FTC failed to demonstrate in any way that Facebook has a monopoly over anything because they kept using the 60 percent market share term and they're like 60 percent what and the FTC was never able to give them data or facts to indicate what Facebook has a 60 percent share of there are other social media services there are other advertising platforms there are other content sites that are all um in aggregate much larger than Facebook and so the case was dismissed because there was no demonstration at all yeah which is why Lena of the traditional definition of a Monopoly and then Elizabeth Warren comes out two days ago and says we need to rewrite the laws uh the antitrust laws entirely redefine what it means to be a Monopoly redefine what this this impacts and so I think the big question is how much of a priority is it going to be for this administration and for this Congress before they're out of session and and we end up with a split Congress again to step up and rewrite antitrust laws at this point is this really a high priority quest um or is it going to get that's why Lena Khan is being brought in is to take another approach like we talked about on the last episode which is you know the alarm is competition uh and not uh the monopolistic power but downstream competition as Chamath uh eloquently explained on the last pod the irony of the Elizabeth Warren uh statements was that she released them on Twitter not her Facebook somebody dunked on her like she's talking about the monopolistic powers of Facebook on Twitter right right you have an alternative that's the point um I'd say I mean how big of how big of a like legislative priority is this going to be for Democrat Democrats or Democrat Democrats I mean I think it's going to be a big one I think it's going to be a big one I think it's going to be a big one I think it's going to be a big one I think it's going to be a big one Democrats because this could be if they rewrite the laws it could be impactful to Amazon Apple Facebook Google you know everyone it's a huge priority there's six bills that just got passed in the house that's going to the Senate and I do think moving fast this is one of the areas where you could actually get some bipartisan agreement in the Senate you remember it's a 50 50 Senate all it would take would be a few Democrats to defect and they wouldn't be able to pass anything but you got 21 Republicans who supported Lena Khan so you know that it says to me that legislation is likely I think it's going to go through I think we are going to see some some big changes and in fairness to Lena Khan this FTC lawsuit that got thrown out was brought before she got there she didn't have a chance to shape those arguments they have 30 days to refile it'll be really interesting to see how she handles this hot potato now whether she brings the lawsuit in a different way in the next 30 days or whether she lets it drop but I do think that of all the big tech companies the argument for breaking up Facebook is the weakest because it's true like it's it's harder to say definitively they have a monopoly in social networking when you've got Twitter you've got uh Snapchat you've got Reddit you've got LinkedIn you've got LinkedIn you've got so many other companies in social media but but that does not mean that the argument against Amazon Google and Apple isn't strong those companies are clearly monopolies or duopolies in their spaces nobody can effectively compete with them their network effects or Monopoly scale effects I think that Facebook's monopolistic impact probably tends towards some form of information distribution but it's a very technical argument that has to be framed accurately on the one side or it's how they've aggregated long-tail advertisers on the other but to your point David on the idea of social networking I don't think they're a monopoly in the least well also they're relitigating the approved acquisitions of Instagram and WhatsApp I kind of feel like if you bought these things and you approved it what is it what is it nine years ago and seven years ago yeah they said they said if you guys had an issue that you know the state's attorney general that filed the suit against the Instagram acquisition and WhatsApp they're like if you had an issue with it you should have filed the suit years ago you waited too long and clearly there's you know you know other motivations like just because Google was successful buying YouTube doesn't mean you can go back in and unwind YouTube because they did a great job building YouTube 99.999 of YouTube success is because of Google not because of YouTube totally right they took a small team and they rebuilt that whole thing and they scaled the heck out of it let me ask you a question to Sachs if these companies paid more taxes and got out of the censorship business uh do you think they could you know maybe take a little wind out of the sales of yes yeah of course look the only reason the only reason those 21 Republicans have now gotten on board with regulating the power of these big tech companies is they see those big tech companies using their gatekeeper power to restrict free speech and it's all one-sided and as partisan against you know their side of the aisle because these companies are populated generally speaking by people on the other side of the aisle and so you know big tech if they had just reined in their own impulses to want to censor the other side they would not be in the hot water they're in right now because it seems like Facebook is starting to backtrack on the Trump ban well they haven't Twitter and I think I think they got a big problem now no look I think they should have been doing this over the last couple of years the cats out of the bag what they thought would never happen all of a sudden became arbitrary and the thing that they did was they started to legislate a private company started to legislate power and that's just a third rail issue the minute you do that you have every government in the world saying to you're saying to themselves wait a minute I am only focused on this one thing right I don't take a huge salary I've been grinding at the low levels of politics for 40 50 years to get to this exact place and now I have a bunch of hipsters in Menlo Park telling me what I can and can't say to the people that I worked a lifetime to basically be able to govern over I mean I you know yeah you can't it can't stand yeah so I think a big mistake that Zuckerberg made goes all the way back to 2016.

Facebook basically bought into the disinformation argument they apologized for it what that was the time for Zuckerberg to fight he should have said no listen was the FSB were these bad actors on Facebook yes but when you look at the total number of impressions and page views it was like a drop of water in the ocean we're not the ones who caused this election to go the way it did Obama used Facebook very effectively in 2008 and nobody had a problem with us then and that was the time to fight that was the time to fight and to your point David he actually should have been even more he said the reason Trump got elected was not me but it was Obama you know he could have really gone on the attack and he would have done himself well look Hillary just ran a bad campaign campaign if Hillary had just campaigned in Wisconsin it would have gone a different way in 2016.

so what she had an idiot team she had an idiot she had a terrible team and they were bad at everything including Facebook including everything social media so Zuck should have said listen don't blame us for the fact the campaign was bad at social media they put victory into the jaws of defeat uh let's uh end on this U.S Sprinter case I think it's super interesting U.S Sprinter shock it's unbelievable Richardson test positive for marijuana and it's suspended a month putting her Tokyo what a joke in doubt uh she is the gold medal favorite in the women's 100 meter and she could miss the games after testing positive she said she smoked pot when she found out uh in Oregon legally when she found out her mom had died um and it's on the United States I don't being agency announced this result on Friday her explanation is so heartbreaking I mean what are we doing this is similar to the golfer who was about to win the PGA and got kicked out on the final day because he tested positive for covid without any symptoms and an outdoor he's outside guys I cannot imagine a worse drug for a Sprinter than marijuana yeah I mean for healing great but it's I mean you're gonna like run the 100 meters stop for a cheeseburger you're gonna take it up it's not a it's not a performance enhancing drug what this is is this legalism these bureaucratic legalistic technicalities gone wild in this case of this runner in the case of the golfer I mean it's like it's like the bureaucrats enforcing the rules have completely lost sight of what the purpose of these rules are the spirit of the rule is super important um and there was a professional snowboarder and his name was Ross rubaglotti from Canada and he wanted a medal and they took his medal away uh because he had THC in his system and disqualified him and then they went back and gave him his metal back I believe and so this is heartbreaking and ridiculous and I I'm not going to watch the I love watching the Olympics I watch a lot of the Olympics I really enjoy it um I think it's awesome and I'm just not going to watch this this year it I just I'm so offended by this like you want these people to take like you want these people to take like a lot of the Olympics I really enjoy it um I think it's awesome and I'm just not gonna watch this this year fuck it I I just I'm so offended by this like you want these people to take like a lot of the Olympics I really enjoy it um I think it's awesome and I'm just not gonna watch this this year fuck it I I just I'm so offended by this like you want these people to take like opioids for their pain uh and suffering we want to take some antidepressant I mean Jesus Christ Jason look I also say like in in our friend group we have a handful of NBA players and I don't I don't think you remember this conversation maybe you do I think we were all together when they talked about the up until uh marijuana was more widely used in the NBA yeah the pills that these players were given were literally borderline opioids crazy ripped their stomach apart ripped everything apart you know created dependencies and all of a sudden you had a natural alternative and people are going to judge folks for taking I mean these guys are brutalizing their bodies for energy for effectively our entertainment and then we don't give them a reasonable way to manage their pain it's outrageous and everybody else is smoking a doobie during halftime or taking a gummy on the way home to sleep I mean it's so hypocritical and it feels like I mean this country just feels like it's being run by a bunch of bureaucratic technocratic weenies and whether it's monitors whether it's we should give them a wedgie and throw them in the locker that's what we should do with this I whoever put this person they get a wedgie and get thrown in a locker I knew you I knew you were a schoolyard bully J Cal I'm not a schoolyard bully but I do think the hall monitors you know those p you were a hall monitor weren't just sex did you volunteer to be a hall monitor be honest no no no no you were in the chess club I liked our chess game sacks yeah okay this is how I knew this is how I knew that J Cal wasn't really I knew I knew I had heard him okay I knew he was genuinely hurt but I knew he would get over it when I got I saw my push notifications or request from chess.com he started a chess game with me so I'm like oh how did I play because I'm a neophyte he couldn't have he couldn't be away for how easy was it to beat me as a 1200 player to my 600 yeah well the chess.com analysis said that uh I was never I was never in any danger but uh I thought you played pretty well and uh yeah give me a tip what's my tip well you you didn't Castle fast enough you let me you let me get that Bishop out yeah you let me trap your king in the center and then you know it was a but but you did good you did good all right I knew I was okay with you and I got the chess.com I think we need a Vegas run maybe we're all just a little cooped up maybe we need to go to Vegas do a quick 48 hour run this weekend should we do a little 48 hour Vegas run all right everybody this has been an amazing episode so uh I'm officially unblocking sacks and um I even followed him love you Chamath love you sacks love you free bird Jake I have something to say to you as well which is I appreciate you I I I love love sister breakdown it back at you let your winners ride Rain Man David Sacks and instead we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy love you queen of Kinwa besties we should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy because they're all just useless it's like this like sexual tension but they just need to release them out what you're about to be your feet we need to get merchies are going all in are you wearing your boxers what are you wearing these are my swim trunks oh swim trunks ah there they are the internet famous legs I mean these legs are actually but much much bigger look look how big they are oh please tell me you're recording Nick look at how big these are