A listener named Tom writes in to ask this, "Hi Pastor John, I recently read this quote from the late theologian Charles Hodge who said, 'Foolish talking and jesting are not the ways in which Christian cheerfulness should express itself, but rather giving of thanks.'" And then he cites Ephesians 5, "Religion is the source of joy and gladness, but its joy is expressed in a religious way, in thanksgiving and praise." Hodge seems to suggest the ideal for the Christian life is zero humor because humor is an unfitting vessel for true joy.

All joy must come from thanksgiving and praise from God. This is, of course, extremely counterintuitive, so the question is, is humor always sinful, or Pastor John, when does humor become sinful? Several things come to mind, maybe three or four. First, I look at these texts and I would say that the passage in Ephesians that he's quoting does not exclude laughter and humor.

It says, "Let there be no filthiness, nor foolish talk, nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving." So those words, filthiness, foolish talk, crude joking, I looked at them in the Greek just to make sure that they don't exclude an exuberance with life in all of its unexpected, often humorous turns, and the kind of sparkling conversation that erupts from time to time with side-splitting laughter.

The verse doesn't exclude that, and I think the reason thankfulness is given as an alternative to crude joking and filthiness is that a heart that is humble enough to recognize that everything is a gift and is full of thanksgiving to God is the kind of heart that just doesn't get ugly.

It doesn't do that sort of thing. There's something about a humble thankfulness that cleans up the mouth. And if you just go a couple of verses earlier to verse 29 of chapter 4, it says—and this is the criterion, I think, for what comes out of our mouth by way of humor— "Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for upbuilding, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear." So will our humor give grace?

Will it tear down? Humor can be out of bounds for—I can think of at least five reasons. One, it's corrupting. It's just dirty. Two, it's ill-timed. It just doesn't fit the occasion at all. This is not the time to be funny. It's the time to weep. Three, it's egocentric.

It's just making me look clever and not doing anything to take others into account. Four, it's demeaning. It's just putting some group down, like telling a joke about Irish people or Iowans. We used to kind of just choose alternative ethnic groups that are like Minnesotans or Swedes or morons, you know, moron jokes.

We've got to be so careful. So demeaning. And five, relentlessly superficial. We've all known people that just don't seem to be able to do anything but try to be funny. So Ephesians 4:29, it seems to me, leaves wide open—Sotus 5:4 leaves wide open that there is humor that does none of those negative things, but is full of grace and well-timed and produces a healthy cascade of laughter.

That's the first thought that came to my mind. Just the texts don't go there. The second thing that comes to my mind is that there are texts that do seem to give a description of the laughter of sheer joy at God's goodness. For example, Psalm 126, verses 1 and 2.

"When the Lord restored the fortunes of Zion, we were like those who dream. Then our mouths were filled with laughter." And the impression you get there is not that these were sort of designated moments of praise to God or thanks to God. This was a moment of experiencing life under the grace of God after a horrible experience of punishment.

And you are so thrilled with the blue sky and the green leaves and the cool breeze and the peace in the city that everybody is just brimming with laughter. That's the picture you get, blessed by God. Third thing that came to my mind is to say that—and this is just experience now—belly-shaking humor happens.

It just happens in real life. You don't have to try to make it happen. And if you're a God-saturated person, when it happens, you don't have to feel worldly that you are taken out of yourself with a kind of abandon in laughter. And I think—I can't remember, but I'm almost sure in one of these APJs I told my favorite story of this happening in church when I was using the illustration of, "Come on, everybody, you want to be a dolphin, right?

You want to cut against the currents of culture, and you don't want to be a jellyfish? Who in the world wants to be a jellyfish?" And a little girl right in the third row raised her hand, "I want to be a jellyfish." Everybody simply roared. I could hardly contain myself.

I was laughing so hard right in the middle of a very important point. My point there is you would be, I think, a very sick pastor if you just couldn't—if you didn't stop and laugh at that. Humor just happens. And another thing that comes to my mind is there's a difference.

I got this from Spurgeon, whom I love. There's a difference between robust humor in soul of a saint who is manifestly taking God with great seriousness and levity—that's the negative word— levity in the mouth of a resident clown who can't seem to be serious about anything. Here's the way Spurgeon puts it.

"We must conquer, some of us especially," I have to laugh at that, "we must conquer, some of us especially, our tendency to levity. A great distinction exists between holy cheerfulness, which is a virtue, and that general levity, which is a vice. There is a levity which has not enough heart to laugh but trifles with everything.

It is flippant, hollow, unreal. A hearty laugh is no more levity than a hearty cry." I think that's a great quote from Spurgeon. And the last thing to say is to try to go back and rescue Charles Hodge. I had to do this. I mean, I went on Logos.

I got all my Charles Hodge works and called him up and looked for humor, and I don't think that was the whole story, what was quoted by our friend. So here's a couple more quotes and an anecdote, and I'll be done. This is from Henry Boardman in his memorial discourse.

He said, "A very noticeable thing about Hodge was the facility with which he would pass from the lightest to the gravest themes. Abounding as he did in anecdote, no boy enjoyed a good story more. Grim Calvinist as he was said to be, his airy spirit revealed itself in a tide of humor as inexhaustible as it was refreshing.

This beautiful gift, for such it surely is, never degenerated with him into irreverence, coarseness, or buffoonery. It never carried him so far away from the cross and its sublime verities that he could not pass at once and without violence to his own feelings or those of others from the sprightliest to the gravest of topics.

From the commerce of small talk bristling with amusing reminiscences and brilliant repartee, to the discussion of some subtle question of metaphysics or theology or the luminous exposition of some controverted scripture." So if I could have anybody ever say something like that about me, I would be very happy that they got humor in the right place.

His son, Alexander, told in his biography this anecdote. He said, "In his examination of class, he was always kind and genial and sometimes his vein of humor came to the surface. On one occasion, he asked a student what the Apostle Paul meant by the expression, 'I am sold under sin.' He meant," replied the student, "that he was taken in or deceived by sin." "Oh no!" exclaimed the doctor, his eyes sparkling with fun.

"Paul was no Yankee." You've got to understand where Charles Hodge taught and what he thought of people in the North. Now that borders, you could say that borders on an ethnic slur, I suppose, or a nationalistic slur against people. But the question is, does the sparkle in the eye, does the tone of voice, does the whole temper of his life keep it from having that effect?

So bottom line, I think, is humor and laughter in their most natural and healthy forms are spontaneous, not contrived, not planned. And therefore, the challenge in life, as in so many other traits, is to become a joyfully, holy, seriously happy kind of God-centered, Christ-exalting, Bible-saturated person so that out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth laughs.

Excellent. Great finds on those Hodge quotes too. Thank you, Pastor John. And tomorrow we're back and we close out the week with a question from a female listener who wants kids. Her husband does not want kids. So now what? That is tomorrow. Until then, you can scan or search through all of the episodes we've released over the years in the APJ app for Apple and Android devices.

And of course, you can always go to our web home at DesiringGod.org/AskPastorJohn. You'll also find links to the podcast feed if you have an app that you like to use to listen to podcasts. You can find those feeds there as well. I am your host, Tony Reinke, Pastor John, and I will see you tomorrow.

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