(upbeat music) - Pastor John recently led a Q&A session with the students of Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia. Here's a question from one of the students. - Pastor John, I just wanna say that it's an honor to speak with you today and thank you for your lecture earlier. I'm a product of the New Calvinism movement, but I wanted to ask you more of a Pastor John type of question.

As an MDiv student and with the training, the exceptional training that I'm getting here at WTS, I struggle when I listen to sermons. I take out that MDiv red pen. And it's not that I'm looking for any sort of error, but it's like, I don't know, did you faithfully preach that text?

I find that as a temptation for me. I don't think I'm the only one, but how do I control that? I'm naturally a Berean, but I think sometimes I'm like a Berean on steroids. So I just wanna see how can I control this? I don't wanna be overly critical, but I think it's important to discern what I'm hearing too.

- That's a good question. I mean, I'm 68 and I tend that way. I mean, I listen that way to sermons. So I have to preach to myself. Here's my answer for me. And it is only an answer by grace at any given moment. That is the answer works at any given moment because of grace arriving at that moment.

So a theoretical answer to your question right now may have no effect on you whatsoever because grace is applying it at that moment. So get that difference? Having answers here and having it work in the moment of being excessively critical aren't the same thing. But it helps to have answers because the Holy Spirit then uses right theological thinking.

So my answer is, number one, it is a good thing to be discerning and to test all things and to hold fast what is good. You cannot not assess preaching. All right? To be indifferent to error in preaching is to be a bad listener. To be indifferent to sloppiness in preaching is to be a bad listener.

To be indifferent to lousy exegesis with true points, true points, false texts, is to be a bad listener. So all that, I'm just affirming that. So I'm affirming that you have that bent and seminary gives you that bent, or if you have it already, it makes it worse. (audience laughs) Or better.

- That's my problem. - I don't know how you look at it. However, now that we've said that, can we benefit from imperfect sermons? Not if you're proud. Not if you're so consumed with needing to show him he's wrong, or even needing to whisper it to the person, did you hear what he said?

There's this impulse in you to identify the error and talk about the error and make sure everybody knows you saw the error. All that's pride. That's pride. What can replace it is, I am a broken, imperfect, corrupt, proud, marriage embattled, imperfect dad who needs God to talk to me through any ass he wants.

That's a biblical illusion. (audience laughs) Balaam's ass. I need this animal to talk to me. And if an animal can talk to me, so can this God creature. I think, in other words, my sense of need and imperfection can override his imperfection. So that Jay Packer said, I asked him one time, how can you be so gracious to so many Arminian types?

(audience laughs) And he said, I'm always looking for the needle in a haystack of error. In fact, he says in his book, "Keep in Step with the Spirit," God loves to honor the needle of truth in a haystack of error. Now, if that's true, and I think it probably is, then we can do that in a listening to a sermon.

So it comes down to whether I am a broken-hearted, humble person, aware of my need, aware of my sin, aware of my imperfection, so that I lay down the brazen, proud need to be known as a good listener who is so critical and can just listen for the truth.

Let the fact that he always does this or always does this, or just ask the Lord to give you the grace to look right through the strange ticks and the incomplete grammar and the inadequate exegesis. The man probably has 10 true things to say this morning. Get 'em. And then ask the Lord to apply 'em like crazy in your needy life.

Thank you. - That was Pastor John leading a Q&A session recently at Westminster Seminary. And related to this topic is the essential point of understanding what's actually happening during the live experience as your pastor preaches the word. Pastor John described this as, quote, "A supernatural encounter with the living God "as the preacher worships over the word "and draws the people into an experience of God Almighty "through his proclamation," end quote.

He said that in episode number 118 in this podcast series and a podcast titled, "Is the 40-Minute Sermon Passé?" That episode can be found in the Ask Pastor John podcast archive, which is most easily found in the free iPhone and iPad app. Again, that's episode number 118. Tomorrow we return to talk about one bold way churches can intentionally pursue ethnic diversity.

I'm your host Tony Reinke. We'll see you tomorrow. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)