So Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi, folks. So by way of introduction, I want to just sort of tell the story of how this panel happened. It arose out of almost a throwaway comment that Jason made on an episode of the pod where he was talking about, you know, lining up speakers for this event.

And he said that, you know, he was having a hard time getting liberals and all he could find were like right-wingers like Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi. And in terms of just to explain their backgrounds a little bit, you know, Matt used to be the, they're both independent journalists who write phenomenal columns on Substack and all of you should check it out and subscribe.

And by the way, they also do call-in shows on a phenomenal podcasting platform that you should all check out. But Matt was sort of like the left-wing firebrand, sort of populist firebrand on writing for Rolling Stone, who back in 2009 was asking the question, why the people who caused the great financial crisis, why no one was going to jail.

And Glenn, you know, broke the Snowden story about how the government was engaging in mass surveillance on all of us and raising questions about the infringement of our civil liberties. So, you know, both these guys have, I'd say, you know, well-established bona fides, you know, used to be considered left-wing sort of liberal bona fides, but now today somehow they've been read out of what you would call liberalism today.

And so that comment that Jason made sort of, I think there's so much to unpack there on how that happened. What does liberalism today mean if it doesn't? If it doesn't, then what does it mean if it doesn't? If it doesn't include you guys. And so that, I mean, maybe that's the place to start is trying to understand what has happened in our politics that makes you guys not liberal anymore.

And what is liberalism? And then what is conservatism? And are we even thinking about the political divide in our country the right way if left versus right doesn't really capture it anymore? So that was sort of the starting point for this. Who wants to go next? Who wants to just react to anything I just said?

Yeah, well, first of all, it's, of course, very gratifying to realize that your attendance at a conference is due to a throwaway line from Jason. So super honored to hear that. That's the reason why we were invited. queen yeah you know it's interesting i guess we join a long list of other far-right luminaries like russell brand who has spent the last 15 years as one of the most vocal devotees to the socialist jeremy corbyn he's now also on the right and joe rogan who just 18 months ago said to millions of people that his favorite candidate running for president was bernie sanders the socialist left-wing candidate from vermont and even now elon musk who voted for barack obama in 2012 over mitt romney and is one of the largest donors to the aclu sometimes somehow he's also on the far right so in some sense it's just become a kind of punishing label that's designed to stigmatize or demonize anybody who in any way dissents from or diverges from liberal orthodoxy it's just kind of an enforcement or coercive label that has no meaning just bereft of any actual substance but i think there's a broader dynamic underneath it all which is that you know it is true that every five years ten years what was once an issue at the forefront of our debates goes to the background and other issues go to the forefront so ten years ago we were spending a lot of time debating things like obama's drone program where guantanamo not being closed um or as you said the work matt was doing on you know derivatives and the fraud on wall street we don't talk much about that anymore we spend a lot of time now talking instead about whether the internet should be this instrument of censorship and information control whether we should trust the u.s security state to dictate what is and is not disinformation uh whether we should be involved in very similar kinds of proxy wars like we spent the cold war doing over places like ukraine and so in one way it's natural that political alliances shift as different issues go to the fore and alliances change as a result but i think something much more important is that liberalism itself has changed largely by virtue of donald trump because liberals as a defining view maybe as an overarching view maybe maybe democrats are not liberal yeah by liberals i just mean kind of the mainstream wing of the democratic party the way hillary you know hillary clinton calls herself progressive so again illustrating the bankruptcy of these terms but by liberals i just mean kind of like the nancy pelosi barack obama hillary clinton chuck schumer wing have come to believe that the overarching way to understand politics is that there's one primary menace and risk to the united states which is donald trump his movement in the republican party and it's not just that they have a bad ideology but that they're actual fascists trying to instill a white nationalist dictatorship and if you actually believe that if that's something that you genuinely believe on some level it becomes rational to start embracing authoritarian uh methods of resisting that of combating that censoring um you know using uh due process free processes to punish people and deprive them of their liberty and i think anytime a political movement gets convinced that it is no longer involved in the democratic process it's not just that it's not just that it's not just that it's not just that it's not just that it's not just that it's not just that it's not just that it's not political debate but a historic war between pure good and pure evil it starts to turn to authoritarian tactics to win because it believes that's justified or even necessary and those authority authoritarian toxic happens to be the ones that the left traditionally had opposed and now are embracing and i guess matt and i didn't decide that we were going to change our views of the last 30 years about these issues and that has caused this organic breach not just between us two you know others like us and as i said anyone who finds themselves outside of liberal orthodoxy automatically receives the far-right label yeah um first of all i agree with all that and um you know for me it's even funnier because uh prior to 2008 i would say that um i was sort of like the triumph the insolent comic dog of journalism basically my job at rolling stone was to throw off one-liners about republicans uh my editors almost never sent me to a democratic function because they didn't want me describing those events in in a colorful way let's put it that way so i got i got sent to a lot of events um where people like sarah palin or fred thompson or mike huckabee would be speaking i actually won a national magazine award for a column about huckabee called my favorite nut job and um but then after 2008 after obama got elected they assigned me to do a story one story about the 2008 financial crisis essentially with the idea of explaining it in terms that people who are not financial professionals could understand so i did one story that was really about aig and we got this overwhelming response that we'd never gotten before from readers we'd never uh heard of uh heard from before and that led to me doing eight years of work instead of one story and one of the themes that came out of that reporting was that in the sort of post bailout economy the wealth gap was widening and um you know i just read a statistic that said that uh during the obama years uh the bottom 99 saw their average wealth decrease by 3900 whereas the top one percent saw its wealth increase by an average of 4.9 million dollars and so you know i didn't make that much that big of a deal of this in my reporting but when um 2016 came around um yeah in covering both the trump and sanders campaigns uh it was abundantly clear that this widening wealth gap and the stress that it had placed on uh populations on both the left and the right was a significant factor uh in this race and when i started to write this in the context of covering trump rather than just doing the usual thing of tossing off insults about the candidate which is easy enough to do with trump uh i started to say things like well there are reasons why he's succeeding he's attracting crowds that are uh you know he's not going to be able to get to the top of the list not just the usual Republican crowds, there are former union members here.

They have a lot in common with the crowds who show up at Bernie Sanders events and it started to notice a distinctly unpleasant reaction from people inside the business where it quickly became taboo to explain Donald Trump in any way other than this is a white supremacist movement and he's appealing to you know the lowest common denominator through that kind of messaging.

Now I happen to believe that that's that was part of certainly part of what was going on but it wasn't the whole explanation but I think Trump is is the dividing line of what you're talking about. If you don't have, if you have a nuanced explanation for Donald Trump then you can't be part of the club anymore because the the dominant narrative requires that he be cartoonized you know in the same way that we used to do it with figures like Saddam Hussein or Putin now you know we call it the Hitler of the Month Club.

If you're not willing to just do that and if you try to actually explain what where all these voters coming from why are they upset what went wrong that this would happen. Also known as the purpose of journalism. Yeah exactly right which is supposed to be our job. I think both of us quickly learned that there that was not welcome and you know after Trump got elected I think that that instinct to crowd out anyone who was interested in going there and trying to figure out what was wrong that it caused 2016 you know suddenly became an apostate and by the way that includes some politicians like you know Bernie Sanders I think was one of the people who was very interested in examining what happened in 2016 and and I think that's one of the reasons why there was such a violent reaction to his candidacy in both 2016 and 2020.

So for me I think that's the dividing line it's not like something's changed so much with liberalism or it's it's really about Trump I think and and journalism has adjusted it is you know we've we've gone from being people whose primary job is to be curious about why things happen to being advocates who believe that you know certain people have to be opposed at all costs and even if that cost is a little bit of the truth or a lot of it.

So having ripped the umpire jersey off their backs to basically stop the Trump menace it seems like journalism can't now go back to even a pretense of neutrality is that so it basically has happened now? I think so I think and I think you see that in in what happened what's happening with the ratings that at cable stations you know I warned about this in 2016 and I wrote a column in the in that summer saying that a model where basically right-wing media wrote about the evils of the Democratic Party and blue media wrote about the evils of the Republican Party that that just wouldn't work audience wise because audiences would no longer trust either source to be objective and to report the facts and I think that's where we are now like we see the declining the declining ratings of companies like CNN and MSNBC which were previously thought of as more kind of down the road down the middle of the road news agencies and now are thought of as politicized and they're having a terrible trouble kind of going back because once you cross that line into politics you can't get your reputation back as a neutral fact finder anymore.

Yeah I think people forget what things were like before Trump since he's such a you know kind of ubiquitous presence as Matt was saying and for me I you know he also defines and is responsible for most of the changes we're discussing but back in 2015 most of these news organizations were on the brink of collapse every MSNBC host was on the verge of being fired you know a couple of months away from being fired because nobody was watching the New York Times had severe financial difficulty there was talk about whether they would have to declare bankruptcy because their bond sheet was so drowning in debt and Trump saved them all he saved the entire industry they all owed their jobs their second homes the ability to pay off their IRS debt to Donald Trump because you can trace his emergence on the scene to when people started watching those programs again and what they did was they rebranded as the resistance to Donald Trump and they sacrificed any even pretense of journalistic function they know if you and you just look at polling data that 95 of the people who watch msnbc and 93 of the people who read the new york times and trust it identify as democrats um so there's a completely polarized media you know one of the kind of non-media examples is the aclu there was an article in 2015 in the aclu about the aclu and the washington post that they were mass layoff had to engage in mass layoffs of their stop because they had no money trump gets inaugurated they start tweeting you know every day we'll see you in court mr trump and like stimulating the you know kind of g zones of every liberal and suddenly they're drowning in money like millions and millions of dollars you know like building like the aclu you know it's always financially struggled and as a result they're completely captive now to that kind of an audience you know i have a friend i guess i had a friend um at who was a who's a host of an msnbc and he was like you know what's the problem with the money that's going to be in the bank and he's like well you know what's the problem with the money that's going to be in the bank and he's like well you know what's the problem with the money that's going to be in the bank and he's like well you know what's the problem with the money that's going to be in the bank a host of an msnbc show and they once told me that they don't get show by show ratings they get segment by segment ratings and ever since trump they told me the minute you put on anybody who's critical of the democratic party anyway you can just see the audience completely disappear which you can imagine a person in that position what an enforcement mechanism that is to know that they have a salary and kids and the need to pay for college and their mortgage and they know if they do anything that deviates from the money that they're getting they're going to be in the bank do anything that deviates at all from democratic party doctrine they're going to lose their audience the new york times knows that the aclu knows that and so yeah i think they're all not it's not just that they've lost their credibility and can't get it back which is absolutely true as matt said it's also that they're now captive to this kind of uh prison cell that they built for themselves chasing the sugar high that trump provided just really quickly i gotta tell a story in the middle of all this phenomenon reporters were arguing about whether or not we should be covering him less because maybe we had helped him get the nomination you know i covered trump's campaign and this was a a hot topic and on the bus at the time but then it was sort of decided that now he's just making us all so much money let's just let's just go with it and uh i remember being in indianapolis when trump sewed up the um the nomination by beating cruise who still had a mathematical chance of winning i think it was in the mid 90s i think it was a good thing i guess if he had done well there but trump if you remember during that particular race accused cruise of being the zodiac killer uh uh which was hilarious because cruise was born two years after the killings ended so but there was one reporter i know who who actually uh got the nerve up to ask i i believe it was i believe it was cruise's wife about about the the accusation of the like what do you have to say to the idea that uh you know that you know your your husband is this is the zodiac killer and he's telling me the story about this afterwards and he goes you know i felt so dirty doing it but i also felt so great so i think that's where they were they were in that space for a long time the media the media and trump had a weird codependent relationship um just in terms of trying to appeal to people out there who may not be trump fans or to get through them on this point it just seems to me that when you lose an election anytime and you lose an election as a party you need to analyze what went wrong and especially when the candidate is a complete political novice with no you know no prior experience and had so many attributes that historically were people who were not interested in the political world and so i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's what's happening in the world right now and i think that's gotten out of afghanistan yet but it was on its way to being a historic 20-year failure he shattered the republican party with that message no more bushes he then took the issue of trade and basically broke down the democrats blue wall in the rust belt by basically pointing out the ways that our trade our bipartisan trade policy just like our bipartisan uh foreign you know our war policy had led to uh the de-industrialization of the of the rust belt and then he also used the immigrant the uh the issue of immigration which was sort of closely related to that idea of creating wage pressure on the working class so you would think that having rode those issues all the way to the white house that there would be some sort of reappraisal and instead it seems like what the elite did to protect itself was create these mythologies that trump somehow got elected not because the people of the country were fed up with the way that it had been run for 20 years by both parties but rather because the russians somehow were behind it or uh or the country was shot through with white supremacy and that somehow explained it um and so we never really got a true uh sort of accounting or reappraisal of what trump's election meant and instead the media turned to like this hysteria this mode that we're not even out of yet your reactions to that no i think you know it's one of the most amazing things about the 2016 election which is first of all you know in a lot of ways barack obama being this kind of once in a generation political talent papered over the the incredibly serious systemic problems the democrats had even while he was being re-elected underneath obama and all his glitter and glamour the democratic party was collapsing they were losing state houses and congressional seats and governorships all over the country and the reason for that is the anger the growing anger with the neoliberal policies that the democratic party in the early 1990s had decided to embrace and move the working-class politics for which they had always been known the kind of clintonite pronouncement that the democratic party needs to start embracing corporate america instead of unions that it needs to move much closer to these polit this politics that says you know we're going to encourage um corporate america we're going to embrace the pentagon and all of that and it radically changed the the democratic party into this party of technocracy and the elites culminating with the obama presidency and the only what is amazing is in 2016 the democrats lost the white house to a game show host and so you know what's amazing about that is that the democratic party was the only one that was going to be able to do anything on its own and so you would think they would wonder why that happened as you were saying right you would think they would wonder what is it about us that caused us to lose to donald trump and instead they invented this long list of people that they decided were to blame instead vladimir putin principally wikileaks jill stein for having the audacity to continue to run for president you know a whole long list of villains essentially everybody except themselves and the people who are responsible for it and i think that's what's so amazing about this is that the only reason that the president won was because the country is radically and fundamentally racist and he capitalized on that and what's so amazing about that is there are literally millions of voters in excess of 10 million depending on how you count but definitely in excess of 10 million voters who twice voted for barack obama in 2008 and 12 and then in 2016 voted for donald trump there are increasing numbers of non-white voters all over the country moving to the republican party under trump and voting increasingly for trump he had a larger share of black voters latino voters asian american voters than any republican candidate in decades and those trends are only worsening and so you have this media that has no interest in and no ability to understand how the majority of people in the united states are going to vote for him and that's what's so amazing about it so i'm going to ask you to give us a little bit of background on that and then i'll give you a little bit of the context of what you said about the white people and what you said about the white people in the united states and i think that's a really important thing about what you said about the white people and the white people in the united states as well and i think that's very important because the white people are very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that the white people are very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that the white people are very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well 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in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's the key to that is that they're very well represented in the white people and i think that's