- Hey guys, recently we've been talking a lot about content creation for marketing, and you can do it in many different forms and many mediums. One thing we have not yet talked about is the realm of live streaming content and then on demand from that. And so joining us to talk about that is Jonathan Harrelson.

- Hey, what's going on guys? I'm Jonathan Harrelson. I'm a content creator. I create on Twitch. I create on YouTube. I create written content like blogs and stuff like that. And yeah, super stoked to be here. Super stoked to be speaking with you, Tim, and hopefully giving your audience some great insights on live streaming and content creation in general.

- Cool. Jonathan, I'm so glad you're here. And this conversation is actually really, really interesting to me because it actually falls outside my comfort zone. You know, like when you're in a B2B world, when you're working, it's like, oh, it'd be so cool if I can do X, Y, and Z as a passion project and find content for people to discover.

It's actually quite a lot of work. And you're kind of like Jack of all trades where you've kind of figured out a happy medium on like where to do things live, where to do things on demand. And you've kind of figured out all the tools to do that. And so today I would love to kind of hear a little bit about like what you're doing from a live streaming point of view and all that goes into like what genre you're using, like how are you finding your audience and then how you're promoting it.

And then after we do that, we'll talk about some of the on demand stuff that you're working on like podcasts. And then for the second half of today's call and conversation, I would love to hear about like just technology or your setup for equipment. And there's a bunch of people like myself for maybe just getting into this.

So like what does it look like for starters and then as you get more advanced. So let's just start with you, like how long you've been doing this, like what kind of videos are you creating and where can we find you usually? So usually if you see me live streaming, I'm live streaming on Twitch.

I've been streaming on Twitch for, oh my goodness, I think about six or seven years now. I don't consider myself a huge content creator. It's really a grind and I've really started focusing on trying to create content outside of Twitch within the last, I want to say a year or two.

Just because inherently live streams, they're not very searchable. You can't really find live streams unless you're searching and especially when it comes to Twitch, Twitch prioritizes their live streams by the amount of viewers. So the more viewers you have, the higher up on the list that you're going to be for that particular genre or game that you're playing.

With that being said, I am moving away from gaming content creation. I have a new project launching in a few weeks geared towards men's mental health, which is going to take me pretty much completely away from gaming. I'll still do it on the side and create, you know, small clips of content, but it's not going to be like my primary form of content creation.

So it's going to be a podcast, it'll be a video podcast, very similar to this one, but I'm going to be live streaming the podcast to the various platforms, whether it's Twitch and YouTube. There's a couple other ones that I'm looking into, but searchability with live streaming is really the biggest hurdle.

And that's where you have to kind of branch out and know how to do like some video editing techniques and some sound engineering and stuff like that. So you really do have to be a jack of all trades when it comes to this type of content creation. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

So kind of understanding how different platforms promote your content based on algorithm is really important, right? So I think you mentioned like Twitch, like I've always associated Twitch primarily with the gaming audience. I'm not sure if they go much beyond that since there's so much tied to video game platforms as well.

So that makes a lot of sense, right? I think building your community and getting active in your community so they can discover you or follow you and you can schedule or make them aware when you're going live. Is that typically how you organically create kind of awareness and demand for your live streams?

Yeah, it's, it's that. And it's also it's also being consistent. So having a consistent schedule for your live streams is huge because that gives reliability for your audience. No, okay. I'm going to be on, he's going to be on at this time every week or every day, depending on your, on your streaming schedule.

And you know, you just got to be like clockwork logging in. And then the other thing is the other challenge, especially like with gaming content, I played pretty much the same two games to be honest. So that content can seem to be really stale. So you have to find creative ways to try to make that content a little bit more interesting, whether it's creating challenges for yourself.

Like for instance, like I play call of duty. So it's like, okay, can I get, if I'm playing multiplayer, can I get 30 kills in a game? You know, can I beat my personal best or, you know let me run around with nothing but pistols or, or something like that.

So really just trying to create a challenge. Or if you, if you play multiple games, there's a content creator that I follow called Dr. he goes by the name of Dr. Disrespect and he, he runs what he calls triple threat, triple threat challenges. So he'll be like, okay, I'm going to get a win in solos on call of duty, fortnight and player unknowns battlegrounds.

Can he do it? So these are, these are kind of methods that, that gaming content creators use to try to keep their audience engaged, try to keep their content a little bit more fresh and try to vary, create certain variations of their content. Even though at the end of the day, the content is the same.

The goal for each piece of content is a little bit different. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Actually, you said a few things there that I really want to kind of pick apart and kind of double down on. Cause it's a fantastic information. And I think it's actually directly related to even the B2B world, right?

And you said, you said something around like schedule and routine where you have a dependable rollout schedule. So people know when to log in. You know, if I think about even the B2B or even coaching world, right, where let's say I set a schedule where every Thursday is, you know, I'm going to be online from eight to nine central, let's say, and that's going to be an open QA for all things, let's say technology.

And maybe I'll have a guest that day. And maybe on every Friday, it's going to be a creative discussion, right? And maybe on Mondays it's around marketing and demand gen, building and following and having a regular schedule where you're going to talk about things allows people to be prepared as well.

So like in my example, there is more of like B2B, but like, again, if, if you know, you're going to show up on Wednesday, cause you're talking about web marketing and SEO, like you'll come prepared with questions or to your earlier point around that kind of drumming up interest from an audience.

Like you start Wednesday is SEO day and people like the SEO tribe will know when to kind of pitch in and kind of expect certain people to show up. So I think that's a really, really good, good point. I'm kind of curious. So you're talking about Twitch and how they kind of, the algorithm kind of bubbles up your, your visibility for YouTube live or even like other platforms, I know Facebook does as well.

I'm a little less familiar with that, but for a YouTube, how do they increase your visibility? Is that similar in terms of how many watches or how many concurrent users and that pushes you up or. Again it's, it's kind of the same thing. It's the, it's concurrent viewers, but where your value comes in, like on a YouTube livestream, YouTube actually creates a video on demand that's stored on your channel at that point, which you can then go in and update the title of the, the title of the video.

It becomes basically a standard video at that point where you, you run your standard SEO practices on the title, on the tags, on the, on the, the video description and everything like that. And where you get your real value out of it is the residual visits from after this, after the live stream goes live versus Twitch, depending on, depending on your relationship with Twitch, whether you're a non-affiliate, an affiliate or a partner, non-affiliates, non-affiliates and non-partners, those videos, those live streams are on the platform, are stored on the platform for only 14 days.

And then if you're an affiliate or you're a partner, it's stored for, I believe 30 or 45 days at that point. But that content does not live in perpetuity or as long as your account, as long as your account is live versus YouTube, YouTube does a really good job of keeping that content living in perpetuity as long as your account is live and you don't have any strikes against you or anything.

And it's a great way to monetize and supplement as well, giving you the ability to post like affiliate links or like donation links or whatever, whatever, whatever your, your like requirement is like, yeah, your call to actions, it's, it's way more prominent on YouTube than it is on Twitch.

So that's why, you know, I'm, I'm, I streamed to both Twitch and YouTube, like this, this new podcast that I'm doing, I'm going to be streaming to both Twitch and YouTube at the same time. And, you know, you said you associate, you associate Twitch with gaming and a lot of people do that.

You know, if you look at 95% of the people out there, they, they associate Twitch with gaming. And that's, that's fair. I mean, I started out as a company called Justin TV and it was basically this kid, Justin, who was basically live streaming his gaming content. And that's kind of where it got built from.

Since Amazon has purchased it, Amazon has really started to push it as, as a marketing platform as well. I mean, they host, they host AWS events on their various AWS events. I mean, they, they even have like Thursday night football for NFL because you know, they, they own the Thursday night pack, Amazon owns the Thursday night package now.

So they're really trying to broaden the horizons of what Twitch can do and get people to think outside the norm of Twitch. And to be honest, the, the biggest, the biggest genre on Twitch right now is like just chatting or IRL. So it's not even gaming. It's like people going out eating or it's groups of friends just hanging out and talking and you know, just doing stupid stuff.

And people come in and watch that like hot tub streams is, was like the big meta on, on Twitch. You know, that's just, I call it smut because it's, you know, I'm not going to go into it, but you know, but that's the audience that, that's the audience that some of those, some of those streamers attract.

So you have to look at it that way too. Okay. Where is my audience going to be? My audience, if my audience associates Twitch with, with gaming, then that's probably not the best place for me to be as a marketer versus, you know, maybe I should stick to YouTube.

You know, YouTube has, has the better, the better platform, the better algorithm, because guess what? Once you're, once your VOD goes, once you have your VOD on there, now you can show up in suggested and suggested results. You can show up in search results and you can also show up in Google search results if you have all your SEO stuff done.

So from a, from a, from a B2B standpoint YouTube takes it over Twitch, but you can still live stream. I've, I watch plenty of creators live stream their podcasts a, a, a content creator group that I, that I follow called Think Media. This is exactly what they do. And they utilize YouTube to build their brand and to help others build their, build their content creation brands.

And YouTube is, is probably the biggest powerful tool when it comes to a content creator's job. Yeah. And actually that's a wonderful segue to moving from like live events or webinars or streams to on demand. Cause you're right. Living on perpetuity and being able to monetize long form content that's evergreen is really where like you want to go.

You and I kind of talked, you know, when we were kind of in prior to this call around just analytics. I think something that really interested me is like, you know, when you looked at the traffic post event was on demand, you're kind of looking at the volume of traffic and you're making some tweaks, whether it's duration of the video or whatnot to kind of monitor when spikes happen and noticing trends.

Can you share some of those insights with us? Yeah. So the, one of the biggest thing when it comes to analytics with YouTube is it also connects in with Google analytics. You don't get that with with Twitch on top of that. So you get a, you get a more granular look at the data.

They have a really robust analytics platform in the, in the creator dashboard and you can, you can make tweaks. You can tweak the, the stream titles or you can tweak the video titles. You can actually do AB testing on like the thumbnails and stuff. These are things that you cannot do on really any other platform and that's, that's really what makes it powerful.

So for me, you know, I might go a week testing one, uh, one thumbnail and then change, change the thumbnail. Uh, next week there's, there's a services that you can use to kind of run it automatically so you don't have to go in and manually change it. And uh, in, in the interest of, uh, uh, budget friendliness, I just go in and do it myself and then monitor, monitor the week over week results.

Um, but yeah, being able to do those things and then, you know, figuring out, okay, what different types of content work. Okay. I have this wonderful podcast. We had a really good three minute, three minute or 60 second conversation. Let me create, let me create a short form content off of that, that I can share on a vertical device like a phone.

So I can put it on tick tock. I can put it on youtube shorts. Youtube shorts has probably been the biggest revelation to me and my channel personally. Uh, on average, my youtube shorts get between a 700 and 1500 views just depending on the, the type of tags and stuff and the time that you post.

But it's a great way to get mass exposure in a, in a very, very short time. And I'm talking about like those, those 700 to 1500 views come within the first hour of posting it if you post it at the right time and posting at the right time depends on your audience.

Right. You don't want to be, the gaming audience posts, uh, is, is usually flipping through their phones, you know, a little bit later at night, um, versus your business audience, your B2B audience is probably going to be flipping through it. Not as late. And when I say late, it's like, you know, 11, 12 o'clock my time.

That's when I get the best results. But a B2B audience, you might be looking at, you know, six or seven o'clock, uh, six or seven o'clock my time, um, you know, while people are doing, getting dinner, sitting at the table, uh, you know, doing their nightly routines, what have you, that's, that's really when the B2B crowd might actually get to, uh, view it, get all those views in.

So it's a powerful, it's a powerful like top of funnel action to use the, the YouTube shorts and just be mindful that like with YouTube shorts, you have one minute with tick tock, you have three minutes, um, I think with Instagram reels, I think you have up to three minutes as well.

So you have to be mindful of, of how long of the content that you need and then what platform you're going to be posting it on. And typically are those, um, like short form videos, just straight edits out of a current video or do you do additional post-production on top of that?

So you kind of lead in with the intro or something to give a context, like, does it matter? It depends. So it depends on the situation, right? If, if we're talking about, if we're talking about like content creation for streamers, right? Uh, you might lead in with, you might not want to miss, you might not want to miss this or you know, there's a, there's a editing technique that a lot of tick talkers and YouTube and YouTubers, uh, who create YouTube shorts use where it looks like a seamless loop.

So the, they, they lead in kind of like with the ending and then they, they start back at the beginning and then it cuts off the actual video cuts off right at the end so that it looks like a smooth transition. When the video restarts, you're catching, it looks like you're catching it all the way through the end and then it's restarting again.

So there's different, there's different techniques of doing it. Um, I haven't quite mastered it yet, but I'm working on it. Uh, gaming content. Like I said, for me, it's, uh, it's, it's pretty much just kind of a straight edit at a couple overlays with, uh, with my channel information and stuff on it and just send it out the door.

Um, I could get real elaborate with, you know, post-production techniques like taking it into, I use DaVinci Resolve for video editing. I could take it in there, create slow-mo sequences, zoom in, zoom out, uh, things like that. But for me, I want, I just want to get content, content out quick.

And so I'm just literally, I have a template that I use. I have a, I have my overlay set and I just replace the videos, export, send it out. It takes me five to 10 minutes to, to cut and edit a, uh, a complete like YouTube short, a 30 second YouTube short.

And that's interesting. So that clever editing where it basically is on endless loop without a viewer realizing it until they say, Hey, I've seen this already before. I'm assuming that like helps your Google analytics, right? It's like you're, you're getting no repeat views or, or it was actually kind of hurt you at some point.

It doesn't, it actually helps a lot because it's, it, each, each view counts as a view. So it kind of helps boost your numbers. And the more, the more, so the way the YouTube algorithm works is the more views you get, the more that your, your video is suggested because that means it's relevant.

It works just like Google search. The more views you get, the more the algorithm says, Hey, this video is relevant to what this person is looking for, what they're looking at or what, what interests them. So the more views, the better. And if they're rewatching the videos and over and over and over, that's telling the algorithm, Hey, this is really resonating with the view, this, this particular viewer, this particular viewer likes these types of videos.

Let's go ahead and push this video to other viewers who, who fit this same profile. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And earlier I remember you mentioned like find different platforms to upload content, right? You mentioned Instagram as amongst others. Now when you do your podcast that you're coming up with, it's a VOD like video or not, I'm assuming that, you know, there is obviously you can post a video to video friendly platforms.

Are you also going to be exporting like audio only ones to like, like Apple podcasts or other, like Spotify or something like that? A hundred percent. So I have another podcast that I, that I do as well. It's called a gaming moment and it's again, gaming content. So it's gaming, streaming technology, content creation just anything around gaming and content creation and gaming content creation.

And we do we do live streams to YouTube and Twitch. We're also recording the audio where we have a high quality audio file that gets spit out at the end with both of our, like our tracks are different audio files. So we can take that into our audio editing software and delete like, okay, we, somebody coughed or, you know, we, we record from our houses.

You know, my kid came in in the middle of a, of a quiet piece and you hear my kid come in so we can, we can cut that little piece out in, in post-production. And then we can do some post-production audio sweetening, like, you know, noise reduction, bring up the base a little bit you know, really make our voices in the audio really stand out and remove any kind of background noise where we can.

So being a podcaster and a video podcaster on top of that, you have to think about, you know, your, your audio quality for your, your, your audio podcast, and you have to think about your audio and video quality for your video podcast. And you got to think about, okay, how do I do the content syndication for all of this?

You know, where do, where do I send all this? So hosting platforms and, you know, like I said, you being a content creator, you have, you really have to be a jack of all trades because as a podcaster, I'm a video editor, I'm an audio engineer you know, we have a website that we maintain.

So I'm a web developer, which is kind of what I do during my day job anyway. I'm a, you know, I'm a marketer, I'm a social, I'm a social media influencer, or social, you know, social media manager. I'm also a content writer. I'm a producer, you know, you have to, you have to wear all of these hats, especially if you're like a one or two man show, it can be a lot and it turns into like a full time and a half job.

Hmm. So, so I know one of the things that kind of gets in people's way in terms of like getting a velocity is all of the work required, right? Like for me, like I'm one of these videos, I'm realizing, oh man, so it's quite a lot of work, right?

To do this. And for me to think about the editing that's required, that whether it's a short, which is one edit, and there's obviously cleaning up audio for the main ones, and then uploading to various platforms and making sure the metadata there and it's SEO friendly, like, what would you say is the average time you spend on, let's say one piece of video, let's just assume the video is, let's say 20 minutes and you want to leverage that for short audio formats as well.

Like how much time do you spend uploading to all of your properties? Okay. So I'll give you an example of like the gaming moment podcast. So we probably spend about two hours a week gathering topics to talk about that scouring social media, scouring Google for latest news topics and trends.

Then we take those topics, we look at, okay, what is their traffic value, right? What are going to be our two main pieces of content that we talk about? Because the way we structure our podcast is we have a segment that does two main things that we include in our, that's like our episode title, right?

And then we have a general banter section, which is, you know, smaller topics that are less SEO optimized where people aren't really searching for as much. So it's, it's taking these topics, going to like Google trends, getting the data running the analysis on that. So all of that right there, just getting the content curated for one episode is probably four to five hours a week.

And then, and then you know, when we record the podcast, our podcasts are about an hour long. So it's like a, we were, we're on for an hour before kind of going over, going over the podcast script and making sure everything is good. And when I say script, it's more like an outline.

But making sure that we understand the topics that we're going to be talking about, because we want to sound knowledgeable. So we're on for an hour before we even start recording. And then when we record, we're usually recording for like an hour and a half because you know, we'll have certain areas where we're like, I didn't like the way that sounded.

Let me, let me restart that. So then you're looking at like an hour and a half there. So that's, that's two and a half. So you're up to six and a half, almost seven hours of, of just, of just that. Okay. So now we have the podcast recorded. Now we got to edit it.

It takes about a couple, it takes about two hours to edit a, a, a one hour long podcast to cut out all the dead space, all the mess ups. And as you do, as you edit, you become more and more proficient at it and you figure out little tricks so that when you're looking at, when you're looking at the podcast, audio waveforms, like, you know, we might do a snap in the, in the microphone to create a high, a high waveform and we know, okay, this is a bad section visually.

We can cut from here to here. Um, and uh, so we reduce our editing times, uh, that way. And then, okay, we have it edited the hosting platform that we use. We use a hosting platform called buzzsprout. And when we upload, uh, when we upload the, the MP3 audio to buzzsprout and we publish it, um, it handles all of our content syndication for us.

So it automatically pushes out to Google podcasts, Apple, uh, Apple podcasts, Spotify, pod bean, every, every podcasting platform, stitch stitcher, uh, that, that, that you can imagine. So that handles, that handles the vast majority of our content syndication as it, as it pertains to getting our plat, our podcast onto the multiple platforms.

So choosing a podcast host in this case is, is, uh, is huge, making sure that they, that they do the syndication and stuff for you. And they give you an RSS feed if you want to use it to, uh, uh, somewhere else. Um, and then from there I take, I take the podcast, I run it through an AI, uh, program that gets, that gets the transcriptions done.

Then you have to read through the transcription, make sure that words are spelled correctly. Um, every, everything looks good. So again, you're having to listen and do the transcription. So that's another hour. So you're up to, you're up to nine hours. Um, and now you have to do, now you have to do your social media promotions.

So I, I do three social media, I schedule three social media posts per week for each new episode. So I use a platform like Hootsuite or a buffer to be able to schedule those out. Um, I make sure I include images with each one and I try to change, change the images with each one.

So I use Canva to create the images really easily, export them out cause they have beautiful templates and all I have to do is just kind of change a few things here and there. So creating the images, you might be looking at another hour, creating the, uh, the, the, creating the, uh, the tweets or the, the social media posts put together.

That's another hour. Thank God for chat GPT now, cause that, that helps save, that helps save a lot of time. So I mean, all in all, when, when you look at it and that's not even, this isn't even including like, okay, we have all these topics, I'm going to create a blog around each topic to post to the website.

So not, not even including that you're up to pretty close to like 12 hours a week, just uh, uh, scripting, editing, publishing, promoting. That's awesome. And that's, that's overwhelming for people here for the first time, but actually it makes a lot of sense. And I can definitely see how the more you do it, you kind of kind of pick up some shortcuts to kind of give yourself some notes and audible cues.

So that's really smart. I hope to kind of give myself some shortcuts as well as I kind of go through this process. Um, cool. So let's kind of transition to the second part of this conversation, which is around like the, the tools or equipment you would need. And I know that you had shared with me like a webpage that you had actually set up with all of those.

And, um, actually I do, I don't mind, do you mind sharing that with us, um, on screen and then we kind of walk us through, I'm kind of curious, like how you would pick and choose maybe something for a beginner, um, versus not. Um, cause again, we're always looking at cost of entry to, you know, this livelihood of content creation.

Yeah, you can definitely get by with, um, you know, some fairly budget equipment or, or some bare minimums. So I have a, I created a blog on a gaming moment.com it's a five budget buys to enhance your content quality, um, where you really want to spend your money, especially if you're creating audio based content like a podcast or a video based content, even a video based content like pod, this podcast, if you will.

You want to, you want to spend your money where it matters the most. So obviously having a good quality mic is, uh, is a huge priority. Um, there's, there's so many like smaller podcasts that I've listened to where it sounds like they're, they're talking in another room because their mic is not great or they're using, they're using a headset microphone, like the headset that I have on right now.

And the audio quality for those is just not there. So like my personal mic that I use, I use an audio technica AT 2020 and those are like $99 now. So it's like a hundred dollars. Uh, I believe you're using a blue, a blue Yeti, which is like 80, $89 or something now.

And these are, these are solid entry level condenser microphones that produce really great sound. Um, the other thing is like if you're doing video content, lighting, lighting is a huge thing. So if I turned off my two lights right here, it would, it would look really bad because it's the glow of the computer screen in front of me and, and you know, I have a green screen in the back for a lot of my other content creation.

So that green screen would show up because it's not, it's not lit well enough. Um, lighting can adjust the mood of a video. Like if I turned off my left light, I would have this light right here and I'd have more of a shadow right here. I'm going to give it a little bit different kind of effect.

So lighting, lighting can really change the mood and the atmosphere of the videos that you're, that you're shooting. Um, a good quality camera. I'm not saying you got to go out and buy like this high end cinema camera, a good DSLR, like a Canon EOS M50 or a rebel even, you know, you can get, you can get a decent quality DSLR camera for like 250, 300 bucks.

And um, like Canon has, has, has come a long way in the last couple of years, creating free software for you to be able to use the camera as a webcam, uh, which is, which is what I do. The camera that I'm using on this stream today is a Canon EOS M50.

Uh, but I do have other webcams that I have available, which, you know, if, if you're, if like 500 bucks is out of your budget, cause that's about five or 600 bucks is about what the Canon EOS M50 is. You can definitely get, um, you know, a standard webcam.

The one that I, that I highly recommend is the Logitech 9, uh, C920 series there. They range from like 50 to 70 bucks, you know, depending on the, the, the time of year that you're getting them. And they have really good color quality. Their autofocus is really good. Um, it's, it's not better than a, than a, uh, than like a, a DSLR camera.

Cause the DSLR camera, you can change the lenses out. So you get a different, you get a different depth of view, depth of field. Um, many of us in the business world, we use the, the fake blurry backgrounds on the zoom videos and stuff. Well, this does it automatically.

And you don't get that harsh edge around your body. It just looks natural. It just looks natural. It looks, it looks really nice. So again, upping the quality of your content just by making a few small adjustments. And then, um, finally like workflow, workflow tools, there's a ton of different things that you can do from a workflow standpoint.

Like if you're doing live streaming and you have different scenes, like, okay, I have a desktop scene where I'm showing my desktop with my headshot. Cause I'm doing a presentation. Okay. Instead of, uh, instead of going to my, going to my, you know, streaming software and clicking on it, I have, I have a tablet underneath my, my monitor here, um, that runs an app called touch portal.

And uh, what touch portal is, it, it's basically like a giant macro. It's like a thing that creates macros and you can, uh, set it up to run different programs. I use it for, I use it to streamline my video editing process. I use it to streamline my, uh, my video, uh, my audio editing process and my, and my graphics editing process, because I can just, I can do everything on my tablet.

Just boom, boom, boom, boom. And then, um, you know, having a good quality mouse, uh, that has multiple buttons on it. I have my buttons mapped for my video editing software where, you know, I have a forward and back button on my thumb, my, the forward button trims everything from the play head to the front, and then my back button trims everything from the play head to the back.

So I'm not having to sit here and fiddle around with hot keys on my, uh, on my keyboard. So learning, you know, getting your environment set up and getting your workflow set up is crucial and saving, you know, 30 seconds saved for every, every keystroke is, is huge or five seconds saved for every keystroke instead of trying to happen to fumble around with like control shift Z or control shift P trying to fumble around with that.

Just having a one button to click it will dramatically reduce how much time you spend like doing editing or anything like that. So just having these, these workflow tools, uh, really helps and, and touch portal is free for, for everybody. Um, they have a free version and they have a paid version.

There's limitations on the free version, but most people should be able to get by with the free version and, uh, all you need is like an iPad, iPhone, Android tablet, Android phone. It works on, it works on both devices and, uh, try it. It'll save your life, man. Yeah.

Cool. Hey man, I want to thank you for just this awesome conversation today. Um, the blog you had mentioned with your list of equipment, I'll put that in the video description below. Jonathan, how can people find you? Uh, you can find me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Tik TOK at day again, Oh seven D a Y G O N zero seven.

Um, that is my gaming handle. Uh, you can also visit, visit my website, Jonathan dash Harrelson.com, uh, and be able to get your information over to me that way. Um, or just Google Jonathan Harrelson. I'm like all on the front page. So, uh, you know, SEO and everything. So yeah, appreciate you bringing me on Tim.

Um, if you guys have any questions, feel free to reach out to Tim, he'll relay the information to me and you might see me on the podcast again, trying to answer those questions for you. Cool. Thanks a lot, Jonathan. All right. Thanks guys. Take care. Bye. you