(soft music) - Hello, this is Pastor John. I get to start this episode by talking about another Pastor John, John Newton. Newton was a key leader in England in the 18th century, as you know, the author of the incredibly popular hymn, "Amazing Grace." Newton was a former captain of a slave trading ship and was dramatically converted from this life of sin and eventually helped William Wilberforce in the British slave trade.

So I wanted to take a moment to introduce you to a new book about a part of Newton's life that goes overlooked. His 40 plus years in pastoral ministry and the amazing ministry of writing letters to people in need. The book is written by Tony Reinke, the host of this podcast.

Tony calls his book "Pastoral Synthesis." He wants you to be pastored by John Newton. And so he gathered up all of Newton's many published letters about a thousand of them in various collections, many of them preserved in old, rare, fragile volumes in libraries around the world. He found them, studied them, and then identified Newton's key answers to the perennial questions of the Christian life.

And then Tony wrote all his findings into a guided tour of Newton's thought. It's a kind of "Ask Pastor John Newton." The book releases this week. It's titled "Newton on the Christian Life to Live as Christ." I commend it very highly. (upbeat music) - Levi, a podcast listener in Indiana, writes in, "Pastor John, on whether or not to listen to music that includes themes of sexual immorality, materialism, and other forms of worldliness, is this a decision of individual conviction or is this music categorically sinful?" I know many people who say that it is a matter of conscience for individuals to determine for themselves.

I would love your biblical thoughts on this. - The first thing that comes to my mind that needs to be addressed is a cynic, maybe, or I don't know what you'd call them, a Christian who thinks good grief. Don't we have bigger fish to fry than talking about what kind of music we listen to?

Don't you guys know that people are suffering in the world? And here we are squabbling about music. So that person is looking over my shoulder as I contemplate whether even to answer this question. And my answer to that person, as a means to getting toward an answer to the question, is we always deal with lesser things for the sake of greater things.

A little leaven leavens the whole lump. That's why you're concerned about a little leaven. - Right, exactly. - You don't say, "Oh, little leavens don't matter." Well, Paul says, "They matter because big lumps matter." So yeah, I'm all into big lumps. I want my life to count for big things and not little things.

Little things affect big things, especially when kids are growing up. Most things feel little at one level. What's the root? Here's a second question I would ask to this person who just told me, "Don't waste your time on this question." What's the root of Christ dishonoring indifference to the poor and the suffering, temporal suffering, eternal suffering?

What's the root of that in adults or kids, wherever? 'Cause that's what this person presumes to be concerned about. And I wanna know, what's the root of that kind of Christ dishonoring indifference? And the root is Christlessness, the absence of Christ as the supreme treasure of our affections, the absence of His word as a controlling force in our lives.

That's the source of Christ dishonoring indifference to suffering. And where does that kind of non-Christ-treasuring heart come from? Well, it doesn't come from anywhere. We're born with it. Jesus' out-of-the-heart-come murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander, all that stuff is selfishness. And big acts of selfishness grow in the soil of selfishness.

So what about music? What about tending the garden of your heart with music? What about the ways we tend the soil of our soul that determine what kinds of things grow in it? There is such a thing as worldly music. One of the marks of worldly music is the exaltation in a worldly view of life.

A worldly view of life is a life that leaves Christ out and approves of what He disapproves. That's worldly. Worldly isn't a sound. Worldly is leaving Christ out. That's why it's called worldly and not Christly. Worldly, and it approves of what He disapproves. It's called worldly because it treasures the world above the one who made the world.

It revels in the very self-centeredness that gives rise to the miseries of the world. And what does God say about this? Here's a few texts. Romans 12, "Do not be conformed to this world, "but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, "that you may by testing discern what is the will of God, "what is good and acceptable and perfect." So my question is, is the transformation of our minds helped by soaking them in sin-celebrating world, the world we're trying not to be conformed to?

Don't be conformed to the sin-celebrating, Christ-omitting world. And I think the answer's patent, garbage in, garbage out. If you soak your mind in the Christlessness of the world, you will be less Christ-full. Is the music of the world a helpful path to renewing your mind to love what the world does not love?

That's the key question. Or Matthew 5, 8, "Blessed are the pure in heart, "for they shall see God." Is our pursuit of purity helped by enjoying the way the world enjoys impurity? Or Colossians 3, 1, "If then you have been raised "with Christ, seek the things that are above, "set your mind on things that are above, "not on things that are on the earth." Does the music that exalts in Christless feeling and Christless thinking and Christless acting, does it help us set the mind on Christ?

Paul's concern is that we have the mind of Christ, that we love what he loves, we hate what he hates, we enjoy what he enjoys. Does the music we listen to help that happen? Or Colossians 3, 5, and 8, "Put to death, therefore, "what is earthly in you, sexual immorality, impurity, "passion, evil desire, covetousness, which is idolatry.

"Put them all away, anger, wrath, malice, slander, "obscene talk from your mouth." We are to be actively putting to death in our hearts all things that we be prone to that are sinful. Does feeding these inclinations that we are supposed to kill help us kill them? Or should we starve them instead of nourishing them?

2 Peter 2, "Many will follow their sensuality, "and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed." The fact is, many who listen to Christ omitting sensuality are made more sensual. Our sensitivities to sin are made more dull, and we are at home more and more with the world and not with heaven, not with Christ, not with his way, not with his kingdom, and not with his joy.

Proverbs 13, 20, "Whoever walks with the wise "will become wise, but the companion of fools "will suffer harm." 1 Corinthians 15, "Do not be deceived. "Bad company corrupts good morals." And the issue here is not whether you're free to go among the world and bear witness to the supreme beauty of Christ anywhere in the world, among the world, and among the unbelieving, and among the sensual.

The issue is whether we are at home enjoying ourselves with the way the world thinks. Let me say that again. The issue is whether we are at home and enjoying ourselves with the way the world thinks. I'm listening right now to Richard Wernbrandt's "Tortured for Christ," written 40 years ago.

He was imprisoned as a Romanian pastor during the Communist takeover in Romania. For 14 years, he was in jail and tortured. And just yesterday, just yesterday, I heard him say, this is a rough quote, I couldn't find it on the tape. I tried to go back and find it, so I'm paraphrasing.

Many of those who were willing to deny their faith and accept the Communist rule were put in charge of the state-approved church. And he said, "They often listen to worldly music." That was his phrase. "They often listen to worldly music." And then he said, took me off guard, he said, "We too played worldly music, very loud, "so that it would cover our Bible discussions "in the underground church and make the Communists "think that we were like others." So I would just say, if that's your plan, listen to worldly music.

- Nice little spin on the topic. Thank you, Pastor John. And speaking of music, beautiful and edifying music, special thanks to cellist Patricia White for her beautiful rendition of "Amazing Grace" off her album "Be Still My Soul," which we are using in this episode. And thank you to Pastor John for promoting my new book here and for writing the foreword to it.

You can read Pastor John's foreword and find more information about the book at desiringgod.org/newton. I'm your host Tony Reinke. We'll be back tomorrow. (gentle music) (dramatic music) (dramatic music) (dramatic music) (dramatic music) (dramatic music) (dramatic music)