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Lex Fridman plays chess with Demis Hassabis


Transcript

You probably need to have multiple agents running in your head. So one agent is how do I play good chess? Yeah. Second agent, how do I play not too good of chess? And third agent is how do I help Lex move correctly? Okay. We have five minutes each. Uh, it looks like I've got, you've given me white Lex, which is nice of you.

Uh, we'll, we'll start the clock. So my clock's counting down. Okay. Non-standard. Yeah. The English opening, you know, I'm English, so I have to do that. So, you know, you press the clock when you're, when you've done your move. That's a good starting move. Very solid Lex. Oh, that's not good.

Yeah. No, this is good. This is very solid. Okay. We're quite far away from the, uh, from the board. Yeah. I'll press your clock for you. Don't worry. Are we far away from the English opening at this? No, this is a, this is a good line. You're playing very, um, very standard.

You have to get used to the one. They always do the funny thing where, uh, very nice. You have to take, uh, you have to take notes of actually what move you've taken. Yes. Uh, yeah, that's a good, always a good plan. Keeping the King safe. I'm going to do the same.

Play very well so far. We just, we just say, I mean, you made your mistakes at this point. Nothing so far. This is, I'm not gonna, I'm like, Oh, here's the Bishop Knight swap that we were talking about earlier, right? The tension you creating the tension in the creative tension in the game, the tension, relieving the tension.

Exactly. All right. Now it gets harder. Now you have to come up with your middle game plan. Would you say you did a very good opening, but you're in a, you're in a, you're in a fine position so far. Yeah. Very nice. Very nice. What's your strongest opener opening game or end game?

Well, I would say probably the middle game middle game. So this kind of, this kind of point. Very good. Very good. Very aggressive. Very aggressive. Lex. If I could sacrifice pieces, I really would. That's not a good move. Is it? No, that's a good move. That's a very nice move.

Are you afraid of using the Queen? Yeah, the Queen, you know, you've got to be careful when you use the Queen. I need to complicate the game a little bit for you. You're doing too well. Lex. Oh, am I losing a piece here? No, you're not losing a piece.

You're doing okay. Actually. I'm going to take it anyway. It's only a pawn. It's how it starts. Only a pawn. That's how it starts, but it's only a pawn. Very good. This is not. Still a pawn. Only a pawn. Sorry. I have to. I don't feel comfortable with you having a Queen on the board.

Takes the Queens off. Less dangerous. Makes you feel safer. So now we're in the end game now. So you're on better territory. What's the definition of an end game? Well, the Queen's coming off is usually the beginning of the end game. It's not the only part of the end game, but it's one bit of the end game.

See, that's a pretty cool idea what you've done there. I'll take off your knight now. I think the internet's going to disagree with that. Now you see this is an interesting dynamic position with your Bishop and my knight, but my knight's in a good, good strong spot there. So you're attacking the Bishop, my, the Bishop is not.

So what do I do with this Bishop? Yeah. Maybe I need some other kind of way. All right. Yeah. But then you're going to attack there. I don't know. I think I'm just running scared. You're running scared now. Fear can't run. Can't run it. Um, okay. Yeah, that's not, is that, that's the only one.

All right. It feels like there's not much to do here. Well, you've got to, you have to have to come at something good here. Oh boy. And the time is running out. Time's running out. Escape. That's a good escape for your King. I'm going to come here now. Yeah.

There's nothing else. There's nothing else. Take another, get another one of your Pawns. I feel like there's some smart move that I'm totally missing. Yeah. That seems reasonable. But I'm not going to take a second Pawn. Okay. That's what you mean? Yeah. I'm going to go here. Maybe just eat away at the, eat away at your stuff.

All right. Yeah. This is not, this is slowly, slowly constricting you. Yeah. It's like, you're going to take all your Pawns. You play very well though. Lex, you haven't made any major mistakes, but it's just slow, slow, slow death. The internet, honestly, we'll very much disagree, but, um, let's see this.

A slow death is better than, than a fast death. Embarrassing. In the beginning, I said, didn't get checked. Well, I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for it.

I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for it. I didn't get checked in the first few minutes. This feels very constrained. Yeah. You're very uncomfortable. Constrained. I feel like Alpha zero. Um, is that, that would be the defined? Yeah. Kind of controlled, uh, controlled end. You know, the interesting thing is the willingness to sacrifice pieces by Alpha zero.

That's so beautiful. It is beautiful. See, so now I'm going to make use of all these Pawns I've taken. Um, would you say your Alpha zero is much better than you? At sacrificing pieces? Oh yeah. Intentionally. I sometimes, you know, lose them by mistake, but Alpha zero is planning to lose them.

It feels extremely constraining. Yeah. How close are you to checkmate? Is there any way for me out of this? No, really? No. So these pieces can't. Yeah. I'm getting basically all your pieces are getting constrained. I'm just going to march these Pawns down here or bring this Rook to help out.

Okay. So if I take this Knight with the Rook. Yeah, you could do that. That would be a final sort of hope. My Knights, you see how strong my Knight's been in this game compared to your Bishop. Yeah. As we were talking earlier. He's already done the damage. Yeah.

It's done all the damage. Yeah. You can get rid of him now, but I think he's already, it's already done all the damage. Oh, and my time ran out. And your time ran out. We're going to finish this anyway. Finish the game anyway. It's time ran out. So you've lost once, but we can, we can lose two times.

Um, yeah. Take that. But now I'm going to get, take advantage of your back rank weakness. Right. And, uh, right. And then this Pawn structure, and you're going to bring out the other Rook. I'm going to bring the other Rook. Finally going to swing the other Rook into the game.

Check. I'm just going to keep writing. How many moves would you estimate here? Uh, it's going to be about 10 from here. I'm going to swap your Rook off. Your final defensive piece. I'm going to take. Is that? No, that's, that's fine. Well, you can, I'll check you here.

Oh, yeah. And he's just marched that. I'm going to march this Pawn to the end now. Well, I think this is a good, you played well. Honor to have been defeated so gracefully. You played very, very well. I was impressed. I was impressed. You, you did, you did great.

I didn't ask you, what do you think is the most beautiful thing you've seen? AlphaZero do? Oh, yes. Personally. Yes. So there was actually. The most beautiful game that I've seen AlphaZero plays is being dubbed the Immortals Zogzwang game by, uh, uh, Akadamato on the, one of YouTube, brilliant YouTube, uh, commentators.

Uh, uh, and he, it was, uh, AlphaZero playing Stockfish and, um, sacrificing a load of pieces to, uh, get Stockfish as all of the Stockfish's major pieces, Queen and two rooks stuck in the corner, basically seal them up like in a two. And Zogzwang means, uh, that, uh, any move that the player makes will make their position worse.

And, um, it's never been done to Stockfish before and AlphaZero did it super elegantly. Through sacrificing. Sacrificing pieces. Yeah. It's a beautiful video online on it. And thank you for giving me and signing this book. Game. You're welcome. Uh, what's, what is the book? The book was written by, um, the British chess champion and, uh, and, uh, woman international master, Natasha Reagan and Matthew Sadler.

Uh, and we get, I known them both for years, for my chess days as a kid. And, um, when they heard about AlphaZero, uh, before we released it, they, they, they wanted to come in and try it out and we gave them full behind the scenes access to it.

And then, um, Matthew Sadler said to me, it's like discovering the notebooks of a, of a, of a hidden champion that no one knew about. And he then wrote this book about all of the different ideas that AlphaZero had. And the cool thing is in there, in that book, so this is, it's a chess book, but also the first few chapters about, about how we built AlphaZero, our journey towards it.

And then Magnus Carlsen was one of the first people we gave the book to. And he, uh, he sort of publicly said it was very useful to him and he's incorporated a lot of the ideas into his own play. The new ideas, you could say created by AlphaZero. AlphaZero.

Tilex, a fellow explorer of the mysteries of the universe. Demis, that, thank you so much. You're very much. Thank you for everything you do. Thank you.