So before we get started, I just wanted to tell you, like one of the reasons that I wanted you on here is because I admire you so much. And just the way you live your life and everything, I love you so much. I tell people all the time, if there was one person I could have them meet, it'd be you, and I love you, and so I'm happy that you're here.

The first thing that I wanted to ask you about was about joy. It's something I feel like you purposely live with, and you are always joyful. I've never been around you when you're not bringing joy and good energy into a room. So I just wanted to ask you about that, and how did that become such a natural part of you?

>> I can remember, and it's not my original, but I read someplace. I guess it was my daughter-in-law sent me a medal, and at the top, they had Jesus, and in the middle, they had a group of people. And then at the bottom, it had one person, and it spelled out joy, Jesus first, everybody else second, others, J-O, and why put yourself last.

And that is, in all my years of experience, that's the joy and that's the recipe for joy. >> Yeah, now that's amazing. It's so crazy to me because it's like, in our culture nowadays, the world teaches that the recipe for happiness, and happiness and joy are different, and I'll get into that in a second.

But they teach, if you wanna be happy, that you just have to search for your own happiness and do what makes you happy. And I think people sometimes follow that, and then they realize when they're only thinking about themselves, then it's impossible to find happiness. But when you can, like you said, think about Jesus first, and then others, and then yourself last, that's the real recipe for joy.

But I think it's so opposite of what the world teaches nowadays. You know what I mean? >> For sure, especially the younger generations. >> Yeah. >> For sure. >> So another thing that I wanted to ask you about is just your simplicity with life. Ever since I've known you, obviously, you've been in this house a long time and everything, but you've been here in the same house, you haven't really bought a ton of new things.

You just got an iPhone. >> I hand me down. >> And now I can text you, but how did you adapt that simplistic view to life? And how do material possessions not mean much to you? Or at least they seem from the outside like they don't. >> All right, my motto is, and I have a sign downstairs, is live simply.

And I look at it all the time. But I never, and you know what, Michael? I don't feel like, I mean, I feel like I have so much. I mean, I have a home, I have financial security, I can buy groceries, and I have running shoes. I have gym equipment, I have, I don't need much.

And I just never have, but I have so much more than I have had as a child. I mean, as a child, we didn't have that much. And I feel that to be able to pay your bills is huge. To have electricity and air conditioning, there's honestly, truly, I don't think I ever go grocery shopping without saying thank you, Lord, for the money.

Cuz I know I'm managing his money, and I pray that I use it the right way. And here's something, and you've heard it before. I think God makes us all where there's a piece of puzzle that only God can fulfill. And if you try to put possessions in there, if you try to put any relationships, anything in that piece that is God, cuz he made us to be in his image and to be his child, you'll never be completely joyful.

First you feel that part, and then everything else falls into place. >> Yeah, in my experience, being in the NBA, having some money now, and being around all these people with money, it's like all these guys. And you get caught up in a cycle, but they think, the next car that I get, the next house I get, the next piece of jewelry I get, that'll make me happy.

And when you constantly get in that cycle, it's like, and you constantly are getting these new things. And you realize that that isn't gonna make you happy, then a lot of guys end up depressed. And that's why I think some of the most famous people, some of the people that have the most money and the most material possessions, they end up the least happy.

Because their whole life, they thought that these possessions would make them happy. And that was their whole goal, was to get famous and get money and buy all these things, and now they're not happy. And even for me, we kinda grew up where we didn't have a lot of money, but my mom and dad made it seem like we had everything we needed and we were so happy.

And even me, being in the NBA now and having money, I can even get caught up in just thinking that buying stuff will make me happy. But I mean, it's just so crazy, because people don't learn from celebrities or famous athletes or whatever. They don't learn from their mistakes.

And they don't see that these people that can get anything sometimes are the most unhappy people, you know what I mean? And it's really sad. People who have lots of things, I mean, they're not the ones I wanna be like. >> Yeah. >> But those who live a more simple life and do it the right way, God's way, they're the ones I think, wow, they're my icons.

But I do understand what you're saying about the people that you are with it, they have that mindset, it's easy to go that way. >> Yeah, I've had to honestly struggle with that at times, just in my free time. Who do I hang out with? Who do I spend time with?

Because it's something that when you're around that all the time, you can kinda start to mold into that in a way if you're not really, really careful. And for me, I've just had to be really careful about that and just make sure that my free time, I'm spending time around people who see it like you and see it and are so joyful.

But it's not because of the things they have. And I mean, you see it even overseas, America is so spoiled and compared to most countries, but then you go overseas and you see these kids who have nothing. But they're running around with their shirts off all day, and they look like they're having the most fun ever.

I mean, Sierra tells me stories all the time about how she goes to these different places and spends time with these kids, and they're just so joyful. >> That's beautiful. >> You know what I mean? >> That's so beautiful. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we get caught up in the world.

But it's easy not to get caught up in the world cuz most of my friends are very similar in their mindset. They're financially okay cuz they can take care of their bills. But we know, but life experience teaches you, it's not things, it's relationships with the Lord and with your family.

>> Do you think that that came with time for you? Like, did you ever struggle with wanting stuff and thinking stuff would make you happy? Did you realize that at a really young age? Cuz I feel like a lot of people, it's kind of trial and error. They try to get all these things, but then they finally realize, this stuff isn't gonna make me happy.

I need to turn somewhere else for happiness. And sometimes that leads people to Jesus, sometimes it doesn't. But for you, what was it like? >> Okay, honestly, truly, I'm thinking it went right back to when I was a kid. We always had shelter, we always had food, and we always had parents that loved us, and a grandma upstairs that loved us.

I just never, all I remember, bill collectors coming to get money at home, and they would send me to the door and say my dad's not home, even if he was home cuz they didn't have the money. I think I was probably seven when I said to myself, self?

I will never have to send a bill collector away, I will be careful, frugal. I don't want a lot of money, but I do appreciate money to take care of my needs. I became a teacher because I wanted to be a teacher, not about money. I married Fred, he was just getting out of the service, and I married him, not because of money, but because he loved the Lord and I wanted him for the father of my children.

But I did know that before we got married, he had to have a job cuz I did not wanna repeat not having stability, cuz that's really important to me. I'm just being smart with what you do have. And I know, like if we run out of food on Sunday, I don't go shopping till Tuesday, then we do without.

And I think it's good to do without. I love to be without something and just say, yeah, tomorrow we're gonna get peanut butter. And not that I couldn't go any day and get more, but I like doing without, I think it's good for me. >> Yeah, I've always said, and this might be really weird of me to say, but I've always said I wanna spend at least some part of my life where I'm living off of barely any money, and I'm experiencing what- >> I love it.

>> Like I've always wanted to try that. And I'm not saying live on the street and be homeless, but close to it. I wanna live off a tiny bit of money to see what it was like, and just really experiencing that for myself, cuz especially in Denver, you see all these homeless people.

And I just have always kinda wondered what it felt like to, like I said, not live homeless, but live with a very little amount of means. So I might try that. It probably obviously wouldn't be some time when I'm in the league, but it might be after, but- >> That would be a great challenge.

Go someplace and live on, let's say, just live on 3,000 a month, and that's a lot. The homeless people don't have that. >> Yeah. >> But where you had to say no, I've already, no, can't have that one, nope. >> Yeah. >> I love living that way, I love not wasting money.

I can give money away, but I cannot waste it. >> Right. >> Does that make sense? >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I'm kinda the same way. Cuz I think a lot of people also who did grow up with nothing, but now, at least being around some of the guys I'm around, who now have all this money, they get so used to having money.

It takes a while when you first get into the NBA or whatever, and then you first get that money, it's a shock, and you're kinda so grateful. But after a while, you see guys just get so used to that lifestyle that now they're not even grateful anymore. And I think that if you, that's kinda why I wanna do it in a way, just if you were to go away from that lifestyle for a little bit and then come back and have money and stuff, you'd just be grateful all over again.

And I think being grateful is one of the top ways you can be happy. >> I think so too, I think so too, a joyful heart. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, and then everything seems fine, even in bad times, if you're thankful, it turns it around, cuz that's a great prayer right there.

>> Yeah, I was watching a sermon actually about that the other day, and it just talked about when you are going through bad times, being grateful, you don't have to try to will yourself to be grateful, but if you just say thank you to God and to other people for everything that you are thankful for, that's a remedy for joy, cuz no one can be happy all the time.

But when you are down and you think like that, and you just say thank you, I feel like that can get you out of that entitled attitude. >> Yeah, right where you're sitting, usually I have my gratitude journal, and I keep a running thank you, Lord. And when you leave, I will put your name in there, and Sierra's name, because I love counting my blessings.

And I heard another explanation, cuz it's hard to be thankful for when you get a bad diagnosis or something's happening with one of your kids. And it said something about we give thanks in all things. Well, we can give thanks because the Lord's gonna go through it with us.

And sometimes that's what you say, Lord, I don't understand it, but thank you that you're gonna go through it, and there's your thankful gratitude heart. >> Yeah, yeah, talk about that a little bit. Like when you were going through your cancer and chemo and stuff, how in the world, cuz whenever I talk to you on the phone, you seem so fine.

How did you keep that just upbeat attitude? And I know inside you probably weren't experiencing happiness all the time. But how did you keep that gratefulness and that joy and continue to talk to God through it and all that? How did you keep that mentality? >> Well, number one, I think you might have heard from your parents.

I, this third time, this is my third, I finished my third time. And I just signed people up to be on my positive energy bus. There's a book called The Positive Energy Bus, and you need to read it. It is so powerful. So I, this time I took people along on my journey.

And they were powerful prayer people. And so instead of being sad for me, they would say, when they got kinda sad, I went, thank you for being my positive. Then it turned their frame of mind around to be positive. So surround yourself with positive people, prayer. I look back, Michael, 2011 when it started, I can hardly remember it.

You know that footprints in the sand where Jesus picks you up and you only see one footprint? He's carried me through all my hardships. I mean, you look back and you go, well, that wasn't bad because he carries you. I can promise you that's true. He, you know, and I don't know if I have to go through it again cuz it's one that keeps coming back.

But I do know I'm gonna hire my, all my people on my, my positive energy bus. And I know I've got all your signatures. >> Yeah, I think you put me on it. >> Yeah, and I have hundreds of people that, and when they're, they need something, I'm on their bus.

I just love going through life together with people. And as you know, there are hard times. But when I look back, it doesn't seem that hard. But I don't want to have to do it again. But if I have to do it again, I'll hire people on my positive energy bus.

>> Yeah, if anybody can- >> I remember you came to see me one time. >> I remember that too. >> Yeah, I think we played cards. >> Yeah, I, yeah, that's crazy to me. I think, so you would rather have people, when you're going through tough stuff, just bring positivity and like, cuz sometimes I think some people are looking for people to kind of like console them and like, you know, like empathize with them in kind of a sad way when they're going through sad things.

But you would rather just have a bunch of people that are just lifting you up positively throughout the whole process. >> Well, I mean, cuz if they're my friends, you know that they're sad that it's going through. But they also know it gives me strength if they go, okay, we can do it.

>> Yeah. >> Instead of going, honey, I don't want you to go through it. And then that makes me go, but I have to, so let's do it. And here's another thing, Michael, and I pray I can always, cuz I don't know what's ahead. And times might get really hard with stuff.

But I just believe in not wasting a day. I mean, if every day, there's a week after a chemo that I just kinda wasn't, I had to go running every day cuz I had to fight it kinda. But probably I ran, the house has never changed, I think I was going that slow.

But I determined to keep exercising and to do everything in my power to keep strong, because every day is so powerful. I don't wanna waste a day cuz even through this COVID stuff, I have been walking with friends socially distance. I've been doing outdoor things because I think every day is such a gift.

And I don't wanna lose that day. >> Right, that's- >> Does that make sense? >> No, that's a big time. So I wanna talk about your planks first. >> Okay, I already did, I hope you're not gonna ask me to do it. I thought, I'm gonna do it before he gets here, he's gonna ask me.

Okay, yes, Michael, on my planks. >> Are you still doing them every day? >> Absolutely, I will get out of bed at night if I forgot. >> Two and a half minutes. >> Yeah. >> Two and a half minute plank every day. >> How many days straight do you think it's been?

>> Four years. >> Four years. >> If I ever missed any, it would be probably on a trip. I couldn't find a spot in a hotel where I was in bed if I didn't remember it. But I probably would double it up the next day cuz I'm just determined.

And don't ask me why, but you're on my planking chart. >> Yeah, I did, but two and a half minutes- >> See, I was on my planking. >> Two and a half minutes was so hard for me when we did it over at my house. That was so hard.

>> Your mom did four. >> You made it look so easy. >> Well, no, but I have a smaller body. >> Still, I'm a professional at this and you- >> Okay, but you know what? It never gets easier. >> Really? >> So I do it right here and I'll go, Alexa, set the timer for two and a half minutes.

And then I take my devotional. Fred will sit here and I'll do my devotional and then he'll look up the scripture. And then I'll go, Alexa, how many minutes left? And then when it goes off, I go, all right. >> Wait, so Fred doesn't do it with you? >> Fred is not one bit interested in who is, I mean, yeah.

>> So who do you jog with then, who do you jog with? >> Actually, okay, so tell me something. >> Yeah. >> What game did you play at Thanksgiving with your family? >> We played, it's called doo doo on your neighbor. >> >> Okay, I grew up on that one.

>> You know how to play it? >> My gosh. >> It's like whoever has a- >> It was your mom's favorite game. We played it when we were kids. >> Yeah, no, it's so fun. >> Yeah. >> But Bree won, so we all played with $15, so she won a $150.

>> Okay, now stop it on the $15, we played for three nickels. >> >> I could not do a dollar. My daughter wanted to do the $15, I went- >> So we did three chips, each chip meant $5, so Bree- >> But did people have their own money or?

>> Yeah, everybody had their own. >> Cuz half the time when they come to my house, I have to give them their nickels. >> Yeah, everybody had their own money. >> Okay, here's a wonderful family, look at how they decorate. >> Whoa. >> And here, okay, over here, I wish he was out.

He's a fireman and he trains rescue dogs, yeah. >> Really? >> Yeah, he's a really nice guy. >> So you know all these people pretty good? >> Well, since COVID, I've been working this neighborhood. And I don't know all, but if they were out, I would say, hey, what's your name?

What's your first name? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, cuz honestly, truly, Michael, I pray for these neighbors every single day. >> All of them? >> Yep, I don't know them all, but I have gotten more, come on. >> >> Come on, come on. >> I got tired. >> You did not.

>> Yeah, I did. >> You don't get tired. >> You're athletic. >> Nice and easy, I'm not fast, but I could go forever. >> How long could you go? >> Well, my furthest is 13 miles, a half marathon. But now I just do three Ks, and when people pass me, I'll go, way to go.

>> Who's this guy? >> I don't know, but I'm sure he's nice. I know his wife. >> Really? >> Yeah, they're going, okay, I haven't seen him in the neighborhood. >> I haven't seen this. >> Yeah, he lives over there, yeah. He's a professor, I believe, yeah. >> What's up, man?

>> Hey, good morning. >> I want to talk about Fred's- >> Slave to the camera. >> >> Go like this to the camera. >> I really, truly want you to do that. >> You guys have one of the, I mean, you guys are like relationship goals. Everyone wants to fall in love young and then be married for, how old are you guys now?

>> I'm 81, Fred's 84. >> So it's been- >> 57 years. >> 57 years. >> 58 in August, if the Lord is willing. >> Yeah, and you guys are still just as in love as you were when you- >> You betcha, all right. But you work on that, and you do sweet things.

And Fred is the easiest guy ever. >> Yeah. >> I mean, he's the one that probably needs prayers cuz I just don't ever sit down and he would like to sit down. But we have definite times that we're together. We, at seven o'clock in the evening, then I don't answer the phone.

That's our time. We'll watch a Hallmark movie or something that we enjoy together. In the morning, our prayer time, every meal we do together. And after supper, we do a little devotional. It's totally hooked together with God as the center. I don't know how you would do it otherwise.

>> For the first while of your relationship, when was that when you guys started writing letters back and forth for those few years? >> Then he went in the Army, and we wrote, and we fell in love. I mean, I- >> Kind of fell in love. >> Well, I remember one time I didn't get a letter when I thought I should.

And then it bothered me, so I thought, that's a good sign. >> Yeah, that's a good sign. >> Yeah, and I would, for like three days, run home in between classes. And when that letter came, it just, and he felt the same way. Because if he didn't write, then I wasn't either, that's how we used to do it.

>> Yeah, that's how I can relate to that, because my girls are the same way. >> Yeah, so we just kind of, yeah, I don't call guys, I mean, I hardly call Fred, and it's kind of the old-fashioned courtship. >> That's good, though, that's good. How long did it take to see the letters, when you sent it, how long did it take?

>> Probably it was, he was in Germany, so probably a week. >> And that was your only way of communication? >> Yeah, and then I just was busy going to school and then student teaching. And I just was so thankful I didn't have to be dating or do anything, but, cuz I was also working.

So it worked, it was a beautiful plan. >> Yeah, it worked out. >> How the Lord directed that is the best testimony in my life. He was in control of everything. >> Yeah, that's big time, that's awesome. So, like I said earlier, when I tell people, do you wanna meet an angel in real life, I say you need to meet Aunt Nancy.

Have you- >> Thank you, Michael. >> I wanna ask you this, have you ever heard the audible voice of God? And have you ever, has that ever happened to you? >> I know, but so clearly in my heart. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You just feel it. >> Yeah, so clearly in my heart.

>> Yeah. >> I keep asking, when you want an outward sign, okay, write me a letter, let me know, cuz sometimes we think, is that really coming from the Lord? No, but I don't need that to know it's so true. >> Right, it's like a peace. >> It is a peace, yeah.

>> For me, the stuff that happens to me, I think I have dreams and I'll have just too many coincidences where I know he's just lining stuff up perfectly for me. And then, like you said, some stuff will happen, it's just like, when you have the Holy Spirit inside your heart, he just directs you.

He tells you kind of like no, or he gives you a conscience to where you don't do certain things and he's leading you a certain way. But that's some stuff that you would never know unless you really start following God, you know what I mean? >> I always say, okay, I would really like to dream about you tonight, but it hasn't happened.

>> Really? >> Yeah, isn't that funny? I just can't, come on, I'm waiting. >> Yeah, I bet you will, I bet you will. >> Well, either way it's there, so I don't need that, but that would be like, whoa. >> It's happened to me once or twice and it's so fun.

>> That has to be so cool. >> Yeah, cuz a lot of people in this day and age, they say there's no proof for God, or I've heard that before, where's the real proof that there's a God? And I say, the most proof that you have is your own personal testimony, and you know what he's done to you, and you know how he's changed your heart, and like what he's shown you.

And people might not understand that, but you know what I'm talking about. >> I do know what you're talking about. And, Michael, they don't really need words, they just need us to live our lives the way we're supposed to. Cuz that's the real one. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> When they see us live differently.

>> And I love every day to say, Lord, direct my path, my thoughts, my words, my actions, my relationships. And I pray that prayer for all my nieces and nephews, and grant them wisdom, cuz I don't wanna do life without them. I don't think I'd get out of bed if I didn't feel confident that he was gonna direct my day.

We've got a purpose. And you know one thing I think our purpose is? Our purpose is to love everybody always, and not judge, cuz we're not the judge, God's the judge. But love them anyway, and don't try to figure out why people do what they do. And I think only through the grace of the Holy Spirit can you do that.

>> Right. >> And I know all my people are kind of people that I've grown up with or have done life with, but you've got a bigger, it's harder for young people to love people that might be talking about you or whatever. >> Yeah, I mean, that is something I definitely can struggle with, like holding a grudge, or like you said, when people are talking bad about you or whatever, and just seeing the best in them and choosing to love them.

But I told you earlier, I'm watching a sermon series, and it talks about love, and how to love. And what it kind of talked about was just receiving God's love. If you really think about it, we're so messed up, and we've done so many crazy things, but he loves us just the same.

So if we can really experience that, and accept that, and spend time with him, and realize his love for us, that's the only way we can go out and love other people, but it's not just a willpower thing. You don't just will yourself to go be super nice to everybody and love everybody good.

It's like when you're spending time with God and he's loving you, it can just pour out of you. And that's the only, I'm just now starting to learn that, so I'm about to start- >> That's so funny, and you're a young kid. >> Yeah, I'm about to start trying it.

But because for me, a struggle for me has just been trying to have the willpower to be a good guy and be nice, and that hasn't worked out great, so. >> But you're on a journey. The whole life is a journey, and I'm not where I want to be.

I'm totally prairie that I can grow closer to Christ every day. I'm not there. I won't be there until I get to heaven. But I totally love the journey. I want to share this thought, and it wasn't mine. It was on Christian radio. They were talking about games families play at Christmas or Thanksgiving.

And then the minister said, there is a game that people play all the time. They play God. And how do they do it? Cuz they're judging others. When you judge somebody else, you're playing God, and that is not okay. That's not our job. But Satan loves it when you judge, cuz then you're doing his work.

>> Yeah. >> So I don't wanna do his work. >> Right. >> And judging, I don't know the answer. We don't know what people have been going through and what. And I think once you get rid of that judging, and trying to figure out why people do what they do, cuz we'll never know.

But that's God's business. Isn't that powerful? >> It is. It's God's business. And on top of that, we don't know everything that led that person to be the person they are. Maybe they weren't as blessed as us to grow up in the families that we grew up in. And have the guidance that we have.

There's no judging, I see what you're saying. And if today's world knew that, and could live even a little bit like that, I feel like the whole world would be in such a better place. >> It would be such a better place. >> But- >> But we can make a difference.

>> We can make a difference. >> Right where we are. >> We can, and I think a lot of it has to do with the social media era. Like when you are posting stuff all the time, it can kind of bring out a type of, and you're not really on social media, so you wouldn't really know this.

But it can cause you to compare yourself to other people. And it can cause you to judge what other people are doing. And it just creates this society where it's like, who's better than who? Who's doing the best? And it's tough, and I've realized that. And that's why for me, I had to get off of social media.

>> Good for you, good for you. >> Yeah, I had to get off of it because- >> They say the human brain can, I mean, a billion good things can happen in one day. But if one negative thing happens, or you hear a negative thought, what do we take home, that negative thought?

Our brain is made to do that. So the least, I mean, just, yeah, social media, I have no interest in. >> Yeah, it's, and you see that in professional athletes. Like, the best athletes in the world who have everything, but then if they have a bad game and people are commenting on their page, then they're gonna see that, and that affects them.

And as much as us as dudes like to act like that stuff doesn't affect us, like it does when people are talking negative about you. >> Because we're human. >> We're all human, and then on top of that, it's like people, when they see athletes or famous people, they don't view them as regular people.

They view them like they can just say whatever to them, and it doesn't affect them. But in reality, that type of stuff affects everybody. And so, it's better not to fill your mind with that stuff. And just, cuz at the end of the day, the people that don't know you, like their opinion doesn't necessarily matter.

But still, seeing it, it can affect you. So for me, it was like, why even entertain that? Why not just get off of social media and really invest in the relationships I already have? >> That's so smart. >> And- >> Please stay off. >> Yeah, I plan to, and that's honestly why I'm doing this right here, so people can still hear my voice and hear my thoughts.

But it's not gonna be through Instagram, and it's not gonna be through Twitter. Because I've just been on and off of it enough to realize that I'm my best self, and I'm better when I'm off social media. So yeah, that's what I decided. >> And I always think, too, girl, I mean, of course, I had different stages in my life.

But when you're doing all this pure stuff, and I didn't even think about it when I was your age, you're so far ahead of me when I was your age. But I just think, if God is for me, who can be against that counts? I mean, if God is for us, and that's if we're his kids, and we're living to honor him, who can be against us, that matters.

Nobody does, I mean, nobody's that powerful. >> Right, you should consider writing a book. >> No, but- >> I think that people will, actually, a lot of people will hear your stuff from this, hopefully, Lord willing. But you live a- >> My life is so simple. >> That's what I'm saying, it's so rare these days for someone to live a simple life.

People need to hear that, and I'm glad that they're gonna be able to hear about it through this. That's why I wanted to do this with you, because that's something the world needs, is simplicity. And I feel like simplicity is a key to happiness and joy, you know what I mean?

There's so many distractions in the world today, but I feel like the happiest people keep it simple, and they just stick to God's word, and God's plan for their life, and they don't really go outside of that. But I just feel like, in America especially, they throw so much at you, it's so easy to get distracted.

>> So Michael, how does that, I mean, with you, how hard it must be to live simply? >> In my position, it's almost impossible, just because of the lifestyle that I'm in. But for me, it's making it as simple as possible, you know what I mean? So getting off of social media, that was one thing.

And then for me, the other thing is I'm gonna be seeing certain things and be around certain people just because of the profession I'm in. But what I do in my free time, and that's where I really wanna live that simplistic life. What I do on the court, and who I am on the court, and who I am off the court.

I just wanna live a simple life, and pay attention to the important things, not be fed with all the distractions of social media. I really respect Kawhi Leonard. He's a player in the NBA who hasn't had social media. Do you even know who Kawhi Leonard is? >> No. >> Well, he hasn't had social media like this whole time.

>> Is he a ball player? >> Yeah, he's one of the best in the NBA. >> But I will get to know him by listening. >> If you watch our, we played him in the playoffs. You remember when we played the Clippers? >> Yeah, but I only look at you.

>> So we played, yeah, he was the best player on the Clippers. >> What's his name? >> Kawhi Leonard. >> Okay, I think I do remember. >> Yeah, no, he's really good. But he hasn't been on social media since he's been in the NBA, I think. And yeah, I don't see myself going back to it, cuz I do want to be intentional about living as simply as I can, you know what I mean?

>> I know something that works really for me, and you're gonna laugh. My thing is, if I buy something, if I go to the Academy Sports and get a new fleece, then I have to get rid of one of my, to take it to Goodwill. >> Really? >> You could do that.

If you buy something, then you need to look in your closet and give something. >> I should do that, because I have way too much clothes. I kid you not, you would love it. It just, so I think- >> So as you get stuff coming in, you take something to Goodwill.

>> I'll go, okay, and then you can take it to a shelter, you can take it to somebody who needs it. It feels so good. In my closet, in one closet, I have all my clothes from winter to summer. And so before I buy something, I'll think, is there anything I'm gonna wanna get rid of?

Half the time, I, no, I like what I have, so I don't even get it. Even if it's 9.99, no, I don't need it. >> That's actually really, really smart. >> I don't dare you, but I want you to think about it. >> I'm gonna do it, no, I'm gonna do it, cuz I have so much stuff that I just continue to get, and it just piles up.

But I'm like, that's smart, taking, as stuff comes in, take the stuff and- >> Well, then just put it in a bag, like for Goodwill or a homeless shelter or something. >> Mm-hm. >> I want you to try it, you'll be amazed. >> I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it, no, I'm seriously gonna do it.

The last thing I kinda wanted to touch on with you is, I wanted to talk a little bit about Christianity and Catholicism. Cuz you're Catholic, right? >> Yes, I am. >> And Catholicism, that's not, that's not, that doesn't mean bad. >> No, that's okay. >> You're Catholicism. >> Yeah.

>> So what'd I say, Catholicism? >> No, that is so, that's kind of a new word. >> So, I don't know why, I went to a Catholic school, but I'm Christian. And I kinda like, you get the sense that Catholics sometimes have something against Christians, and Christians sometimes have a thing against Catholics.

>> No, cuz we are Christians. >> We are, but- >> Yeah. >> I was just gonna ask you, don't you believe the main thing is a relationship with Jesus? >> Absolutely. >> Any, like, whatever it is, it's the relationship with Jesus. >> Absolutely. >> And that's what he's after.

>> Yeah. >> And I just know from being around both, being around a lot of Christian people, a lot of Catholic people, they get so stuck to this religion that they lose like the main point of it all, which is the relationship. That's all Jesus wants. >> That's all it is.

And I think what is confusing, cuz it's, there's a lot of church rituals that people, we know what they mean, and they're all based on scripture, but it is about the relationship. And I just remember one time when I was teaching school, my parents that I was gonna have, they came in and they said, we wanted you for a teacher cuz we heard you were Christian.

And I said, yes, I am a Catholic Christian. And they went, Catholics can be Christians? Okay, see, that is such a myth. And that's, we're all about Christ. >> Right. >> And our relationship with him. >> So then what's the main difference, you think? >> There's, the main difference, all right, here's the deal, how I feel.

I was blessed to be in a parochial school, too, cuz I didn't get any spiritual growth from my family. I got it all from the nuns. And that's, from the time I was seven, I asked Jesus into my heart. And the nuns gave me the Ten Commandments. I had my boundaries, cuz I wasn't getting boundaries at home.

But I loved the boundaries. It made me feel safe, and there isn't any difference. But the Eucharist, when we have communion, we believe it's Jesus. And I know when I would break bread with you anytime at your church, cuz I love, I will go to any Christian church and worship with my loved ones, my family.

>> Yeah. >> And, but for me, the Catholic Church kinda probably saved my life, cuz I didn't get direction at home. >> Right. >> I got it through the church. >> Right. >> But there's not a lot of difference, except, cuz sometimes you think certain denominations are better. We're not better.

We're all the same with the same God, the same Lord. >> That's how I feel. But I just, being around it, at the Catholic school I was at, and just being around a lot of different Christians, they think it's so different. But the way I look at it is, when Jesus died on the cross, he died for everybody.

So that doesn't matter if you're a Catholic, Christian, whatever you are. >> Absolutely. >> But that's the main point, is the relationship with Jesus. But there's a lot of stuff in the Bible that's not necessarily black and white. And there's some stuff that different denominations might take it this way or other Catholics might take it this way, whatever.

But the main point is the relationship. Lecrae, who's another guy that I'm gonna be interviewing, he talks about how he just lost his religion and found Jesus. A lot of people cling so hard to this religion that they have, but they don't even invest in the relationship with Jesus, you know what I mean?

>> Michael, that is so profound. And that's exactly in any religion. You can go through it and then you have nothing when it's time to leave your parents, and you don't have their faith to carry you on. It's nothing about all the man-made or church rules. And all those things, and all of the scriptures there to guide us, that's our textbook for life, that's our blueprint for life.

It's all about you need the relationship if you're gonna have anything. It's not what you were saying. It is just not the church, it is your relationship. And then, I love my traditions cuz it's like when I go to mass, I just feel like I'm home cuz that was my home.

But I could go worship with anybody, any Christian church, and they could be playing music and singing, and I feel so comfortable there too. >> Right, right. >> Yeah, but that was a good question cuz I think when we were little, we were kinda taught as a little kid that we couldn't go to a non-Catholic church.

But the Catholic church is not that way anymore. We know that we're all worshiping the same Christ, and we follow him. But we've come a long way, and I'm so proud of that. Our leadership's so much better now. >> And I don't think a lot of people are really aware of that, that you can be different denominations, or Catholic, or whatever.

And still, the main goal is the same thing, we all want the same thing. >> Exactly, and we are all sinners. And those little kids that go to proky school can be rascals, just like anybody else. And you know that, cuz you went, and- >> Exactly. >> They're just kids, and human, and without the relationship.

And I think the terminology was always different. It was always there, but until I got into a Bible study as an adult, it all came together. >> Yeah, well, this has been amazing. Honestly, we should have done this even if it wasn't like- >> I know, I feel like I know you better.

>> That's what I'm saying. >> And Michael, truly, I promised you prayers on your 16th birthday. I've been praying for you forever, about God directing your path. >> Mm-hm. >> And I just would love to be a support person for you, and for you. Cuz I think that's what the Lord wants me to do, reach out.

And I just love everybody always, and believe in them. >> Thank you. >> Cuz there's nothing that anybody could do that would make me love them less. >> Yeah. >> But I know your journey looks so much different- >> Right. >> Than mine. >> Mm-hm, honestly, no, I love talking to you, and I love when you reach out.

And when we go, when we hang in Colorado, it's always so refreshing for me to just. >> I know, I just love you, and I always think you're like mine. I know we're at Jan's house, but you're mine, yeah. >> For sure. >> I feel that way about all of you, but the blessing of you guys moving here.

>> Yeah. >> When your grandma was passing away, and I said to her, I will watch over your kids. >> Mm-hm. >> Meaning every day I'll pray, and I kept my promise, every day I've prayed for all of Judy's kids and their kids. And lo and behold, you came here and went, well, whoa.

I've got, remember down Flat Branch, floating the sticks and walking around? And then when you'd say, we'd walk, and you'd go, hey, Aunt Nancy, and everybody would look like, that's his aunt? I was so proud. >> >> Yeah, yeah. >> It is crazy. >> Yeah. >> No, it is crazy.

>> Cuz like you and Judy, you guys are also short, but then my mom's so tall, and then when they see me hanging with you, they're like, whoa, how does he have an aunt that short? >> I know, I know, but I always tell people when they say, okay, no, I'm related to the Porters, and they'll go, you are?

I went, yeah, I used to be that tall. >> >> Yeah, cuz you know how you shrink when you age? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I used to be that tall. >> Have you shrunk? >> Not yet. I think keep jogging and- >> No, keep doing your planking. >> Keep planking and keep your bones strong.

>> You'll be good, but I love you and I'm glad you did it. >> I love you, and Michael, please know that I might not be at your games, but my spirit, and you're too, I'm with you, my darling. I love you guys so much, and I love your mom like a daughter.

I mean, I do, and I love you guys like a grandma. >> Thank you. >> I think that's one notch up from an aunt. >> My grandma? >> No, I mean, I don't ever take Judy's place, but I love you like a grandma. >> Thanks, you don't give us candy like she did though.

>> No, cuz I would give you a rice cake. >> >> Yeah, and no, and I would obey your mom. She said no cake, I would, but Judy was always my, Judy was my favorite rascal. >> I got so much candy and so much goods from going to her mom.

>> I know, but she loved that, and that was one thing she could do. >> Yeah. >> No, I love that, she was a rascal. >> Yeah, even growing up, she was my favorite little friend to play with. >> Really? >> Yeah, we would have a club called the Roy Rogers Club or the Captain Marvel Club, we'd collect the dues and go get ice cream.

>> She's so fun. >> What were you thinking? >> She's hilarious, I miss her. >> Yeah, she's in heaven watching over, trust me, she's proud. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Thank you, all righty, well, let's wrap this up. >> This has been amazing, we're out. Should we do the plank while we're- >> To tape it?

>> Two and a half minutes, right now, whatever, let's do it. >> Well. >> I actually need, it's gonna be good cuz I need to do it. >> Okay, but this is hilarious. >> Alexa, set the timer for two and a half minutes. >> Set the timer for two minutes, three seconds, starting now.

>> Okay, I'm Michael, yeah, let's talk. >> I always like to talk. >> You do, I'm already tired. >> You're so cute. >> I have something I'd like to talk about. >> All right, so what do you want to talk about? >> I want to ask you questions now.

>> Yeah, ask me something. >> Alexa, stop, Alexa, turn the volume to seven. >> >> All right, Michael. >> >> I think she's wearing out. >> >> What did you say? >> Wait, have you done it today, you're playing? >> Yeah, but that's okay, I'll do anything for you, remember?

>> Thanks. >> All right, Michael. >> What is it like living- >> >> My goodness, Alexa. >> Alexa, be quiet. >> >> Let's see if that works. >> >> Alexa, stop. Okay, that was funny, she said, I've never heard her do this. >> >> We have no idea. >> How long has it been?

>> All right, Alexa, how many minutes to the timer? >> You have two timers, a two-minute and 30-second timer. It's about one minute left. >> One minute, that's a piece of cake. All right, Michael, when did you know, when did you really accept Christ in your heart? >> For me, it was like, I just grew up with that.

But then I didn't really accept it for my own whenever I went to college. Man, I'm too tired to talk about this right now. >> >> Okay, you ask me a question then. >> But I'll, we only have- >> Okay, Michael. >> Huh? >> Okay, I was seven when I did.

>> I think I did at Mama's College. I mean, I accepted him earlier, but really trying to live for him was college. >> Okay, I would probably never have been who I was if I didn't get him really quick in my life, cuz I had kind of a rougher childhood.

>> Yeah. >> It brought joy to it, though. >> I wanna hear what your childhood actually is. Alexa, how much time left on the timer? >> >> You have two minutes. >> That's it. >> >> We have ten seconds left. >> Okay, that was fun. >> Yeah. >> Wasn't that fun?

>> No. >> >> This episode is sponsored by Lemon Perfect.