So before we get started, I just wanted to tell you, like, I, one of the reasons that I wanted you on here is because I admire you so much and like, just the way you live your life and everything, it just, like, I love you so much. I tell people all the time, like, if there was one person I could have them meet, it'd be you, like, and I love you and so I'm happy that you're here.

The first thing that I wanted to ask you about was about joy, like, it's something I feel like you purposely live with and you are always joyful, I've never been around you when you're not bringing joy and good energy into a room, so I just wanted to ask you about that and like, how did that become such a, like, a natural part of you?

I can remember, and this is, it's not my original, but I read someplace, or my, I guess it was my daughter-in-law sent me a medal and it had, at the top they had Jesus, and in the middle they had a group of people, and then at the bottom it had one person, and it spelled out joy, Jesus first, everybody else second, others, J-O, and why put yourself last, and that is, in all my years of experience, that's the joy and that's the recipe for joy.

Yeah, no, that's amazing, it's so crazy to me because it's like, in our culture nowadays, the world teaches that the recipe for happiness, and happiness and joy are different, and I'll get into that in a second, but they teach if you want to be happy that you just have to, like, search for your own happiness and do what makes you happy, and it's, and I think people sometimes follow that, and then they realize, like, when they're only thinking about themselves, then it's impossible to find happiness, but when you can, like you said, think about Jesus first, and then others, and then yourself last, that's the real, that's the real recipe for joy, but I think it's so opposite of what the world teaches nowadays, you know what I mean?

For sure, especially the younger generations, for sure. So, another thing that I wanted to ask you about is, like, just your simplicity with life, like, ever since I've known you, obviously, you've been in this house a long time and everything, but you've been here in the same house, you haven't really bought a ton of new things, you just got an iPhone, and now I can text you, but, like, how did you adapt kind of that simplistic view to life, and how do material possessions, like, not mean much to you, or at least it seemed from the outside like they don't?

All right, my motto is, and I have a sign downstairs, is live simply, and I look at it all the time, but I never, and you know what, Michael? I don't feel like, I mean, I feel like I have so much. I mean, I have a home, I have financial security, I can buy groceries, and I have running shoes, I have gym equipment, I have, I don't need much, and I just never have, but I have so much more than I have had as a child.

I mean, as a child, we didn't have that much, and I feel that to be able to pay your bills is huge, to have electricity and air conditioning, there's, honestly, truly, I don't think I ever go grocery shopping without saying, "Thank you, Lord, for the money," because I know I'm managing His money, and I pray that I use it the right way, and here's something, and you've heard it before, I think God makes us all where there's a piece of puzzle that only God can fulfill, and if you try to put possessions in there, and if you try to put any relationships, anything in that piece that is God, because He made us to be in His image and to be His child, you'll never be completely joyful.

First you feel that part, and then everything else falls into place. Yeah, and my experience, you know, being in the NBA, having, you know, some money now, and being around all these people with money, it's like, all these guys, and it just gets, you get caught up in a cycle, but they think, "Oh, the next car that I get, the next, you know, the next house I get, the next piece of jewelry I get, that'll make me happy," and when you constantly get in that cycle, it's like, and you constantly are getting these new things, and you realize that that isn't gonna make you happy, then a lot of guys end up depressed, and that's why I think, you know, some of the most famous people, some of the people that have the most money and the most material possessions, they end up the least happy, because their whole life, they thought that these possessions would make them happy, and that was their whole goal, was to get famous and get money and buy all these things, and now they're not happy, and even for me, like, we kind of grew up where we didn't have a lot of money, but my mom and dad made it seem like we had everything we needed, and we were so happy, and even me, you know, being in the NBA now, and having money, like, I can even get caught up in just thinking that buying stuff will make me happy, but you, I mean, it's just so crazy, because people don't learn from, like, celebrities or famous athletes or whatever, they don't learn from their mistakes, and they don't see that these people that can get anything sometimes are the most unhappy people, you know what I mean, and it's really sad.

- People who have lots of things that, I mean, they're not the ones I wanna be like, but those who live a more simple life and do it the right way, God's way, they're the ones I think, wow, they're my icons, but I do understand what you're saying about the people that you are with it, they have that mindset, it's easy to go that way.

- Yeah, I've had to honestly struggle, like, with that at times, just in my free time, who do I hang out with, who do I spend time with, because it's something that when you're around that all the time, you can kind of get, you can kind of start to, like, mold into that in a way if you're not really, really careful, and for me, I've just had to be really careful about that and just make sure that my free time, I'm spending time around people who see it like you and see it and are so joyful, but it's like, it's not because of the things they have, and I mean, you see it even, like, overseas, like, America is so spoiled compared to most countries, but then you go overseas and you see these kids who have nothing, but they're running around with their shirts off all day, and they look like they're having the most fun ever, I mean, Sierra tells me stories all the time about how she goes to these different places and spends time with these kids and they're just so joyful.

- That's beautiful. - You know what I mean? - That's so beautiful. - Yeah. - Yeah. We get caught up in the world, but it's easy not to get caught up in the world 'cause most of my friends are very similar in their mindset. They're financially okay 'cause they can take care of their bills, but we know, but life experience teaches you, it's not things, it's relationships with the Lord and with your family.

- Do you think that that came with time for you, like, did you ever struggle with wanting stuff and thinking stuff would make you happy, or did you realize that at a really young age? 'Cause I feel like a lot of people, it's kind of trial and error, like, they try to get all these things, but then they finally realize, "Oh, this stuff isn't gonna make me happy.

I need to turn somewhere else for happiness." And sometimes that leads people to Jesus, sometimes it doesn't, but for you, what was it like? - Okay, honestly, truly, I'm thinking it went right back to when I was a kid. We always had shelter, we always had food, and we always had parents that loved us and a grandma upstairs that loved us.

I just never, all I remember, bill collectors coming to get money at home and they would send me to the door and say, "My dad's not home," even if he was home, 'cause they didn't have the money. I think I was probably seven when I said to myself, "Self, I will never have to send a bill collector away.

I will be careful, frugal. I don't want a lot of money, but I do appreciate money to take care of my needs." I became a teacher and because I wanted to be a teacher, not about money, I married Fred. He was just getting out of the service and I married him, not because of money, but because he loved the Lord and I wanted him for the father of my children.

But I did know that before we got married, he had to have a job 'cause I did not want to repeat not having stability, 'cause that's really important to me. I'm just being smart with what you do have and I know, if we run out of food on Sunday, I don't go shopping 'til Tuesday, then we do without and I think it's good to do without.

I love to be without something and just say, "Oh yeah, tomorrow we're gonna get peanut butter," and not that I couldn't go any day and get more, but I like doing without. I think it's good for me. I've always said, and this might be really weird of me to say, but I've always said, "I want to spend at least some part of my life where I'm living off of barely any money and I'm experiencing what ...

I've always wanted to try that." I'm not saying live on the street and be homeless, but close to it, I want to live off a tiny bit of money to see what it was like and just really experiencing that for myself, 'cause especially in Denver, you see all these homeless people and I just have always wondered what it felt like to, like I said, not live homeless, but live with a very little amount of means.

So I might try that. It probably obviously wouldn't be sometime when I'm in the league, but it might be after. That would be a great challenge. Go someplace and live on, let's say, just live on $3,000 a month, and that's a lot. The homeless people don't have that. But where you had to say, "No, I've already ...

No, can't have that one, nope." I love living that way. I love not wasting money. I can give money away, but I cannot waste it. Does that make sense? Right. Yeah. I'm kind of the same way, 'cause I think a lot of people also who did grow up with nothing, but now at least being around some of the guys I'm around who now have all this money, they get so used to having money.

It takes a while when you first get into the NBA or whatever, and then you first get that money, it's a shock, and you're kind of like so grateful, but after a while, you see guys just get so used to that lifestyle that now they're not even grateful anymore.

I think that if you ... That's kind of why I want to do it in a way. If you were to go away from that lifestyle for a little bit and then come back and have money and stuff, you'd just be grateful all over again. I think being grateful is one of the top ways you can be happy.

I think so too. I think so too. A joyful heart. Yeah. And then everything seems fine. Even in bad times, if you're thankful, it turns it around, 'cause that's a great prayer right there. Yeah. I was watching a sermon actually about that the other day, and it just talked about when you are going through bad times, being grateful ...

You don't have to try to will yourself to be grateful, but if you just say thank you to God and to other people for everything that you are thankful for, that's a remedy for joy when you are ... 'Cause no one can be happy all the time, but when you are down and you think like that and you just say thank you, I feel like that can get you out of that entitled attitude.

Yeah. Right where you're sitting, usually I have my gratitude journal, and I keep a running thank you, Lord, and when you leave, I will put your name in there and Sarah's name because I love counting my blessings. I heard another explanation, 'cause it's hard to be thankful for when you get a bad diagnosis or something's happening with one of your kids.

And it said something about we give thanks in all things. Well, we can give thanks because the Lord's gonna go through it with us, and sometimes that's what you say, "Lord, I don't understand it, but thank you that you're gonna go through it." Yeah. And there's your thankful gratitude heart.

Yeah. Yeah. Talk about that a little bit. Like when you were going through your cancer and chemo and stuff, how in the world ... 'Cause whenever I talk to you on the phone, you seem so fine. How did you keep that just upbeat attitude, and I know inside you probably weren't experiencing happiness all the time, but how did you keep that gratefulness and that joy and continue to talk to God through it and all that?

How did you keep that mentality? Well, number one, I think you might have heard from your parents. This third time, I finished my third time, and I just signed people up to be on my Positive Energy Bus. There's a book called The Positive Energy Bus. You need to read it.

It is so powerful. So this time I took people along on my journey, and they were powerful prayer people. And so instead of being sad for me, they would say ... When they got kind of sad, I went, "Thank you for being in my positive." Then it turned their frame of mind around to be positive.

So surround yourself with positive people, prayer. I look back, Michael, 2011 when it started, I can hardly remember it. You know that footprints in the sand where Jesus picks you up and you only see one footprint? He's carried me through all my hardships. I mean, you look back and you go, "Well, that wasn't bad because He carries you." I can promise you that's true.

I don't know if I have to go through it again because it's one that keeps coming back, but I do know I'm going to hire all my people on my Positive Energy Bus, and I know I've got all your signatures. And I have hundreds of people that when they need something, I'm on their bus.

I just love going through life together with people, and as you know, there are hard times, but when I look back, it doesn't seem that hard, but I don't want to have to do it again. But if I have to do it again, I'll hire people on my Positive Energy Bus.

Yeah, if anybody can ... I remember you came to see me one time. I remember that, too. Yeah. I think we played cards. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy to me. I think, so you would rather have people when you're going through tough stuff just bring positivity and like ... Because sometimes, I think, some people are looking for people to kind of like console them and like empathize with them in kind of a sad way when they're going through sad things, but you would rather just have a bunch of people that are just lifting you up positively throughout the whole process.

Well, I mean, because if they're my friends, you know that they're sad that it's going through, but they also know it gives me strength if they go, "Okay, we can do it," instead of going, "Oh, honey, I don't want you to go through it," and then that makes me go, "But I have to, so let's do it." And here's another thing, Michael, and I pray I can always, because I don't know what's ahead.

And times might get really hard with stuff, but I just believe in not wasting a day. I mean, if every day ... There's a week after a chemo that I just kind of wasn't ... I had to go running every day because I had to fight it kind of, but probably I ran in ...

The house has never changed. I think I was going that slow, but I determined to keep exercising and to do everything in my power to keep strong because every day is so powerful. I don't want to waste a day because even through this COVID stuff, you know, I have been walking with friends socially distance.

I've been doing outdoor things because I think every day is such a gift, and I don't want to lose that day. Right. Does that make sense? No, that's a big time. So I want to talk about your planks first. Okay, I already did. I hope you're not going to ask me to do it.

I thought, "I'm going to do it before he gets here, he's going to ask me." Yes, Michael. On my planks. Are you still doing them every day? Absolutely. I will get out of bed at night if I forgot. Two and a half minutes. Yeah. Two and a half minute plank every day.

How many days straight do you think it's been? Four years. Four years. If I ever missed any, it would be probably on a trip. I couldn't find a spot in a hotel where I was in bed and I didn't remember if I didn't remember it, but I probably would double it up the next day because I'm just determined.

And don't ask me why, but it's ... I love ... You're on my planking chart. Yeah, I did. But two and a half minutes was so hard for me when we did it over at my house. That was so hard. Your mom did four. You made it look so easy.

Well, no, but I have a smaller body. Still, I'm a professional athlete and you ... Okay, but you know what? It never gets easier. Really? So I do it right here and I'll go, "Alexa, set the timer for two and a half minutes." And then I take my devotional.

Fred will sit here and I'll do my devotional, and then he'll look up the scripture. And then I'll go, "Alexa, how many minutes left?" And then when it goes off, I go, "All right." Wait, so Fred doesn't do it with you? Fred is not one bit interested in planks.

Who is? Yeah. So who do you jog with then? Who do you do that with? Actually ... Okay, so tell me something. Yeah. What game did you play at Thanksgiving with your family? We played ... It's called "Doo-Doo and Your Neighbor." Okay, I grew up on that one. You know how to play it?

Oh, my gosh. It's like whoever has a ... It was your mom's favorite game. We played it when we were kids. Yeah, it's so fun. Yeah. But Brie won, so we all played with $15, so she won a $150. Okay, now stop it on the $15. We played for three nickels.

I could not do a dollar. My daughter wanted to do the $15. So we did like three chips. Each chip meant $5, so Brie ... But did people have their own money or ... Yeah, everybody had their own. Because half the time when they come to my house, I have to give them their nickels.

Yeah, everybody had their own money. Okay, here's a wonderful family. Look at how they decorate. Whoa. And here ... Okay, over here, I wish he was out. He's a fireman, and he trains rescue dogs. Oh, yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah. He's a really nice guy. So you know all these people pretty good?

Well, since COVID, I've been working this neighborhood. I don't know all, but if they were out, I would say, "Hey, what's your name? What's your first name?" Yeah. Yeah, because honestly, truly, Michael, I pray for these neighbors every single day. All of them? Yep. I don't know them all, but I have gotten more.

Come on. Come on. Come on. I got tired. Oh, you did not. Yeah, I did. You don't get tired. You're athletic. Nice and easy. I'm not fast, but I could go forever. How long could you go? Well, my furthest is 13 miles, a half marathon, but now, I just do three Ks, and when people pass me, I'll go, "Way to go." Who's this guy?

I don't know. I'm sure he's nice. I know his wife. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. seeing him in the neighborhood. I haven't seen this. Yeah. He lives over there. Yeah. He's a professor, I believe. Yeah. What's up, man? Hey, good morning. I want to talk about Fred. I want to talk about Fred.

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