(upbeat music) - We're back with Francis Chan, who joins us from San Francisco. And Francis and his wife Lisa wrote a new book titled You and Me Forever, Marriage in Light of Eternity. And in the book, you write this, Francis, quote, "No woman wants to be led by a joyless man," end quote.

Unpack that for us a little bit. Why is joy so central to leadership in the home? - Well, joy is one of the fruit of the spirit, but it's one of those fruit that is so contagious. I mean, we have the ability to bring life or death to a situation, whether it's your family or your workplace.

You know, those people that just walk in and their joy just lights up a room and then others where, gosh, they're just joyless. They're just negative and it rubs off. So when it's in the home, I mean, that's a lot of time spent with that person. And, you know, scripture tells us that our joy, our forbearance, and that lack of anxiety should be evident to everyone in Philippians 4.4.

I mean, this is what makes us attractive. And I think about, you know, as a kid, I was just not a joyful person. I just remember comments my dad would make, like, you're never happy. And my aunt would say the same thing. But when you come to know the Lord, that changes.

And I remember a pastor interviewing one of my daughters and said, "Hey, describe your dad." And the first word she used was joyful. Like, oh, he's just so joyful. And, you know, when I heard the interview, I'm like, wow, who would have ever guessed that would be the adjective for me, you know, like on the upper, because that's what Christ does.

And I see so many women that you look on their faces and you just kind of go, I don't think she has a great husband. You know, I wonder, you know, or when, you know, some of you men, if you're listening, if your wife, before you met her, was this joyful, lively person, and she isn't now, you've gotta take some of that on your own shoulders.

Being married to you has actually caused a burden, because we're supposed to bring life and light into their lives. And so I think it's a cause for, you know, we should pause, I'm not saying any woman that's depressed, it's your husband's fault, or vice versa. You know, and women, obviously, same thing, so.

- That is worth reflecting on, humbling and challenging. Thank you, Francis. And on a related note, Pastor John has addressed dad's role in leading with joy in the home back in episode number 256 of this podcast. And then I also asked him what steals his joy in episode number 256 as a follow-up, which became a very personal episode about leadership and joy in the home, and how the home can actually be a joy drain.

Those are episodes number 255 and 256 in the archive. We will return with Francis tomorrow on Friday. I'm your host, Tony Reinke, we'll see you then. (silence) (silence) (silence)