(upbeat music) - Today's clip comes not from a sermon, but from an interview with John Piper, and it's an interview that was led by Pastor Norm Funk at Westside Church in Vancouver, British Columbia. We jump into their conversation as they were just talking about the local church and leaders who have failed in the local church.

So what do you say to someone who says, "I'll never leave Jesus, "but I've seen the failure of a pastor, "and I'm done with the local church." Here's a very short clip from that conversation. - Specific to that, they go, "Pastor John, I'm not walking away from Jesus, "but I'm done with the church.

"Can't trust the leadership, "held this guy in high esteem, "so I'm not gonna walk away from Jesus, "but I'm done with the organized aspect of church life." - If you do that, you're walking away from Jesus. Here's the reason. To say that I love Jesus, but I don't submit to his word is a lie.

He who loves me will keep my words. Jesus founded the church. I didn't. Paul didn't. Jesus founded the church. He established apostles to be, according to Ephesians 2.20, the foundation of the church. And then he built it with prophets and teachers and pastors and ordained that there be a structure of local churches in the body of Christ called the church.

This is not man's idea. There are a lot of young evangelicals who are cool, hip, and leftward-leaning who think they can substitute organized, substitute something for organized church. Well, I would have to look at what they're substituting and say, "Well, really, are you just creating church?" Trying to create church.

If you're trying to create church, just create it biblically. Start a biblical church. And that means listening to your master and his word and his apostles. So the choice of Jesus over church implies a choice of your opinion over the Bible because the Bible is where we meet Jesus.

You can't make Jesus up. You can't make him up. He is the Jesus of the Bible or he's the Jesus of your imagination. If he's the Jesus of the Bible, you take the whole Jesus. You can't carve him up in pieces. And the whole Jesus is the Jesus who loves the church.

He died for the church. Hard to say it much more clearly than that. This short clip was sent in to us by Michael Bailey, a podcast listener. Thank you, Michael, for the clip. It's taken from a recent video which we added to our YouTube channel titled Reflections on Mark Driscoll and the Church.

You can check it out online. Well, what is the sin of gluttony? And what are some signs in which food has become an idol in our lives? That's the question I will serve up on the table tomorrow to Pastor John. And yes, that is a bad pun. I'm your host, Tony Reinke.

Thanks for listening to the Ask Pastor John podcast. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)