Enjoying your podcast? We'll be brief. If you're looking for the perfect holiday gift, give Scratchers from the California Lottery. With so many to choose from, you're sure to find the right gift for anyone on your list. Now that your holiday shopping list is figured out, enjoy this bird singing Jingle Bells.

Give the gift of Scratchers from the California Lottery. A little play can make your day. Please play responsibly. Must be 18 years or older to purchase, play, or claim. That was my horrible attempt at a turkey noise. Happy Thanksgiving. Welcome to this episode of Sales from the Street. Hey, hey everyone.

Welcome to another great episode of the Sales Evangelist podcast. I'm your host, Donald Kelly, the Sales Evangelist, and I'm so excited for another great episode. I'm so excited to be here with you today. And on this episode of Sales from the Street, I have a great guest. His name is Joshua Sheets.

Joshua Sheets is also the host of the Radical Personal Finance podcast. Joshua served as a sales professional in the personal finance space, and he's done very well over the years with that. Now he has his own organization, Radical Personal Finance. You can check it out and get connected with him.

We have some more information on him. But before we dive into the episode and get connected with Josh, you know I have to give some shout outs. And this week I want to give a shout out to Kevin. Kevin Dean, thank you so much for connecting with me on Twitter.

Also want to give a big shout out to Lizbeth Winter. Thank you so much for connecting with me, Lizbeth. I appreciate it. Also want to give a big shout out to John Kopke. John, thank you so much for connecting with me. Appreciate it. And keep having success out there in the world of social selling.

And if you'd like to connect with me, you can go ahead and find me on LinkedIn, Donald C. Kelly. You can find me on Twitter, Donald C. Kelly. You can also find me on Instagram, Donald C. Kelly. Get some motivation, check up on me, see how I'm doing. You can also find me as well on Facebook.

The Sales Evangelist is our Facebook page. Go ahead and check that out and like the page. Would love to get you over there, see what's going on. And you can go ahead and check out The Sales Evangelizers. This is our private Facebook group. Shh, don't go tell anybody about it.

It's a private community designed for folks just like you and me, listeners to The Sales Evangelist podcast, friends who are in sales, entrepreneurs, people who want to be with like-minded sellers. You can go ahead and check it out. Again, The Sales Evangelizers, that's on Facebook. It's a private Facebook group.

Shh. And if you want to take your training a little bit further, you can go ahead and check out TSC Hustlers League, the salesevangelist.com/hustlers, the salesevangelist.com/hustlers. And this is a great new project that we're doing, and you can check it out and learn more about it. Again, go to the salesevangelist.com/hustlers.

Now, we have a great episode straight ahead. So let's go ahead and dive into the discussion with Joshua Sheets. Take it away. Welcome to the show, Josh. Dude, I'm glad to be here. You know, I am so excited to have you. You're going to lay it on me today with some good knowledge.

I know it. I know it. And Josh, as you know, this episode is called Sales from the Street. And what I like to do with these episodes is bring guests on, folks who are out there hustling just like you and me, share, you know, real life experience, some of the challenges that they had, and how they overcame those challenges and results they saw from the solution they implemented.

But before we dive into that, I want you to tell us a little bit more about what you're doing with Radical Finance. Yeah, so now I host a podcast called Radical Personal Finance. So I'm selling in a very different format now, kind of like you selling ideas in a public format.

I came from a six-year career in life insurance and investment sales, working with a company called Northwestern Mutual. I had previously been working for a large corporation in an analyst position, and I was sick and tired of the income that I was earning. I got a 5% pay raise, and I thought to myself, "5%?

I deserve a 55% pay raise." Not a, actually, it was an 8%. Anyway, I wanted a much bigger pay raise than I was given. And so when I, at that time, I realized I needed to go into a more financially lucrative profession. And so to become a highly compensated employee, I decided that the best path was to go into an area where my income was driven by my results.

So I chose sales, and I wanted to learn to be a professional salesperson. I always enjoyed the topic of finance, so I chose a financial company called Northwestern Mutual. I chose them primarily simply because when I was researching it, they were known to have one of the better sales training programs.

And I figured, "Well, I'll go do it for three years, and if nothing else, I'll learn to be a salesperson." And those are strategies and tools I can take with me for the rest of my life. Found those spending six years there, really enjoyed it, and then launched out of there to start my business now called Radical Personal Finance, where I host a daily, in-depth, personal financial planning podcast where I teach people to become financially independent in about 10 years or less.

- That is awesome. That is great, and I love it. And I think that's something that, obviously, if anyone out there listening who are in the sales world can definitely connect with you on that, because if they're making the money now, they listen to the show, or they're making the income, they need to learn how to manage that money.

So, highly recommend that you check out. And we'll put all this stuff in the show notes as well, so they can check out your podcast. But let's talk about some of the challenges you faced when you first came into sales. What are some of those things that you, the initial challenge, like one of the most difficult things that you came upon?

- Most difficult thing was that when I started, I was 23 years old, and I was scared of everything that moved. (laughing) And when you put a 23-year-old who's scared of his own shadow into the world of sales, you have to learn some things. I remember the first day I had to make phone calls.

In our business, we worked on what we called a referred lead prospecting system. So, I would call, the way I started my business, I called everyone I knew, I asked them for an appointment to share with them what I was doing, and I would maybe be able to be of service to them, but also ask for referrals to other people.

And I remember just walking around the phone the very first day of training for about 45 minutes before I had the guts to pick up the phone and call somebody. And that was a consistent theme over the years, that I had to learn how to overcome all of those deep-held fears of other people.

And the biggest challenge for me was really getting referrals. In a referred lead prospecting system, the way that it worked is I would work with somebody, and then I would ask each and every time for them to introduce me to other people. And we talked about the sales from the street episode.

I would say that for me, one of the major transformations occurred when I had a client where I stopped selling and started listening. The way financial sales works is you'd have to do some amount of listening, but then after you do some listening, then you gotta start selling, 'cause you gotta place your product, whether it's an insurance policy, whether it's an investment product, you've gotta actually follow through and start making the presentation.

And that's right, and that's fine. But there was sometimes a challenge with regard to financial topics of when's the right time to make the transition. Early in my career, I learned from other people, and I would do a little bit of listening and then start talking. And as I progressed year after year, I just started spending more and more time listening and less and less time talking.

And it culminated with a scenario where somebody that was introduced to me came into my office, and says, "Josh, we wanna talk to you." And they came into my office, and I sat down, and I just spent an hour listening to them. I didn't sell them anything. I didn't actually place a single financial product with them in that hour, nor did I even talk about it.

But I spent an hour listening to them talk about their goals and what they were trying to accomplish. What happened was they left my office, they sold their house, and they put a plan in place to pay off their student loan debt. But the really remarkable thing to me was a few weeks later, they invited me and my wife to their child's birthday party.

And at that birthday party, when I walked in, they basically made a massive announcement to the room. "Hey, everybody, this is Joshua Sheets. He's our financial advisor." And my hosts practically walked me around the room and said to each and every person, "This is Joshua, he is awesome. You should talk to him.

This is Joshua, he is awesome. You should talk to him." And what that resulted in was a major transformation for me where I realized that I had gone from it being difficult to get referrals from people to this specific client walking me around the room and telling everybody that they should meet with me.

And it caused me to continue the track I was on of approaching the business in a very different way where I went in with fewer and fewer plans and just spent more time listening. And from then on, it basically solved the referral problem for me where I didn't have to work very hard to get referrals, but because I had been able to genuinely, authentically create such a feeling of being heard and listened, created such goodwill in my clients that they wanted everybody to work with me.

It was a real epiphany for me in my sales career. - That is great. I love the fact that you mentioned there that you listened a lot. And I like the fact how this client, because you listened, in his mind, he probably felt like you gave him so much, so many great advice that day, but all you did was really sit back and he kind of almost educated himself in a sense, but built such a great relationship.

And I feel that's a lot of place, that's an area a lot of salespeople, especially those who are new, have a difficult time with because you're taught these training things. You learn about your great product or your service and you want to tell everybody about it because you know it's going to help them.

But it's kind of like an oxymoron. Sometimes you need to talk less. - When I was brand new in training, we used a form in the financial business called a fact-finding form. And it was basically about a 16-page questionnaire and had all the questions written on it that you were supposed to ask your prospective client.

And somebody told me in training, "You can be an idiot, "but if you just ask people these questions, "you'll open cases and you'll close business." So I took them literally in the beginning and I just went out and I asked people all the questions. On that questionnaire, the final stage of the questions that I learned in the last couple of steps was about setting up for the referral prospecting.

And it was called confirming the appointment basically and then setting it up to ask for referrals. And one of the questions that I would always ask is, "How did you feel about the process today?" And remember, I didn't know a thing. I was just asking, asking, asking, asking. (laughing) But I would get to the end of the form and before, at this stage, before I knew anything, I would just ask, ask, ask, and they would be like, "Man, this has been awesome.

"You really seem like you know what you're talking about." (laughing) And here I was, quaking in my boots at 23 years old and they're telling me, "Joshua, you really seem like you know "what you're talking about." Inside I'm saying, "I didn't say a thing. "All I did was ask the questions "that are printed on the paper." But I learned if you listen well enough, people will think that you know what you're talking about because of the way that you made them feel.

And then I was able to, at that time, take the form back to my office, find out the answers, prepare the recommendations, and come back and provide something helpful. But the more we listen in sales, the better the results. And it's probably really hard to press that too far.

- You know, and the thing about it too is the fact that you had the questions written out. Because, and by the way, that's how I look so good, because I just ask people questions on a podcast and they think I know stuff. (laughing) But the thing I like about it too is the fact that you had the questions written down.

And it never ceases to amaze me. People who do really well in sales, they focus on the details, little things like that. Instead of winging it and saying, "Oh, I got these questions in my mind." You have them written out, you have them known. And I mean, over time, sure, you can get those to become a part of you and second nature, but there's a power in taking details, writing out the question, the most important questions, crucial questions.

And in a situation like this, you come back like a genius. - I used to train new reps, and I firmly believe this. When you're in a sales capacity where every day you're in front of prospects and clients, there should be nothing coming out of your mouth, really, that's not memorized, that's not scripted, and that's not prepared.

Now, there are situations where you'll be asked a new question or you'll work on an angle. But then after the appointment, you go back and you ask, "Did I do that very well?" And if you start to do that, what happens is you stop worrying about what you're gonna say and you start focusing on how you say it.

And that's how you really, really engage people is by not thinking about what you're gonna say, but by thinking about how they're feeling and how they are responding to what you're saying. If you're thinking about your lines, the next thing that you're gonna say, you can't think about how the other person is responding.

But if you know what you're gonna say, then you can focus on how you're delivering it and you can focus on really engaging. So one thing that I learned a lot, and I just see so few salespeople do, is everything should be scripted. Everything should be practiced, practiced, practiced, practiced, practiced.

In the early years, I would sit down with other reps and we would sit down on Saturday morning and I'd film myself delivering my approach language, delivering my phoning scripts. I'd record the phone calls and I'd go back and listen to them and ask myself, "Would I take an appointment from me?" And when you focus so much on internalizing the words, then you can forget about the words and you can really dig into the delivery and it makes all the difference in the world.

Dude, was it tough watching yourself or listening to yourself the first couple times? Oh, I hate it. But I also learned everybody hates it. We all hate it. And it's so valuable. I recorded tons of calls that I never wanted to listen to. But even just recording, even if I didn't listen to them, it still made me pay attention.

And then what also would help is I would listen to other reps and I would focus on the things I learned well and the other reps. And I learned, I don't know, a little bit of advice to your listeners. If you're working with other salespeople, listen to what all the other salespeople are doing and do the exact opposite.

(laughing) And it sounds weird. I'm not sure how much you go into things like phoning technique and all of that. But the instant somebody calls you, you can know that they're a salesperson. And since all of my initial introductory appointments were set on the phone, in financial sales, you have to learn how to be very good on the phone right off the bat.

And all you need to do to learn to be very good on the phone is listen to everyone's around you and then record yourself and do the exact opposite. So I never, for example, started with, "Hi, Donald," or anything like that. I would always, if I were calling you for an appointment, I would basically, my coworkers made fun of me, I would basically yell at you like, "Don, hey, this is Joshua Sheets." And I would go on with the little script.

But those little cues, you only pick them up in learning about them. Even one little thing I learned by listening and also studying and learning from other people was that little hesitation. So when I would say my name, I would say, "This is Joshua Sheets," and I would pause a moment.

What that little tiny pause does is it makes your brain, when I call you, and you don't know who I am, you just pick up the phone, it makes you immediately start searching and say, "Joshua, Joshua, Joshua, who's Joshua, who's Joshua? Oh, Joshua Sheets." And it makes me sound like I know you.

And in financial sales, you've got to break that first couple of seconds to give yourself just about, you know, a minute or two on the phone to be able to share why you're calling, who introduced you, what your perspective is. And all those little things can only be done when you know your script's cold and you don't have to worry about what you're going to say.

- Oh, man, dude, you hit home with some of this good stuff, man. I've done a couple episodes recently, had guests speak about the idea of scripts. Some people hate it. I hated it, Josh. But, you know, the more that I did them, the more I saw improvement. And I did some acting in high school, theater stuff, and you saw the benefit of getting the script, memorizing the script, and then being able to live and mold that script.

And there was a big difference. The big difference between being a robot and having a script that guides you. - If you know the script, it allows you to adjust it. So I used to teach phoning, and I'm just focusing on that 'cause it's one of the-- - Sure, yeah.

- If you can't phone, you have no ability to get in front of a client for fact-finding. You have no ability to put together a solution. You have no ability to do your presentation. It all starts on the phone. And something is simple with phoning is having a script and knowing where you're going to lead people.

So what I always did is I was always trying to call based upon a referred lead prospect. And so simple thing like my script was very carefully honed to get responses little by little over time so that the prospective client was willing to answer me. So example would be like, you know, my initial phoning language.

"Don, this is Joshua Sheets, "Joshua Sheets calling. "Hey, I'm a friend of Joe Smith's. "Did Joe give you a call "and let you know I was be calling "or am I calling you out of the blue?" And that initial line that I developed was really, really useful because you would always respond, "Oh, no, he didn't." And then I would again defuse the situation, make it sound a little more casual.

I would do a big, "Oh, come on, "I gotta get on Joe. "He promised me he was gonna call you "'cause I always told him to call, "but they never call. "Everyone's busy, so I'll get on Joe for that." And then I would go in and all through the script, I would have an alternative choice response, but instead of it sounding like the traditional stilted 1982, "Are you available on Tuesday at 10 a.m.

"or Thursday at 2 p.m. thing?" The alternative choice can be much more elegant. So my alternative choice was, "Okay, do you have a moment?" So I would, first alternative choice, "Did Joe tell you that I was gonna be calling "or am I calling you out of the blue?" "Oh, you got me out of the blue." "Bummer, okay, I'll get on Joe for that.

"All right, real quick, I'll be super, super quick. "Do you have a quick second to speak "or did I get you to bad time?" And so for me, I always needed to ask that question because I needed about two or three minutes on the phone to set up why I was calling, who I was calling from, and those kinds of things.

And if somebody's standing, people answer their cell phones now when they're standing in front of a board meeting. And there is no chance in the world that I'm gonna set up an appointment with somebody standing in front of a board meeting. So it's an alternative choice. Then I would go into about a 30-second thing of here's who I am, here's who I work for, here's the type of work I do, here's why I'm calling, here's what Joe said about you and why I'm calling, and then go into just some simple alternative choice of I'm gonna be down in your area on Tuesday.

Is it all right for me to swing by Tuesday or is there another time that's better for you? Or are you a daytime guy or an evening guy? Or are you a morning guy or an afternoon guy? Or whatever the situation is, and try to do that. So you can take, with practice and with scripting, you can take the time-tested, honored approaches from professional selling, things that have been developed and tested, and you can hone them a little bit and make them more elegant for the day.

Make them more elegant for today's world. - Oh man, dude, you hit home on all this stuff. Man, I love it. I love it. If there's one thing you would like someone listening to this, new to sales or seasoned sales, there's one piece that you want them to walk away with.

What's that one piece of advice, Josh? - If you do good work, that will speak broader than any tactic or technique. If you are a person worth referring, you won't need any tricks or gimmicks. Good technique is important for good salespeople. You should be a professional. So you should do good work, and you should have great technique.

But don't ever try to fool people with great technique when you do really bad work. So focus, if you've got to focus, spend most of your time focused on being a person who's worth referring, being a person who's worth buying from, being an expert in your industry. Spend the vast majority of your time on that, and a little bit of your time focusing on technique.

We've just done this whole thing here on technique. But to be a true professional, spend a lot of time on being a person worth doing business with. And then also, don't forget about technique. And that will rocket your sales into the stratosphere. - Love it, love it, man. If folks want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to connect with you?

- Best way is to listen to the show, and to do that, just search on your phone for Radical Personal Finance right in the App Store, and you'll find our free app. So just search the App Store on your phone, Radical Personal Finance, and download the free app, and you can listen to every past episode of the show.

We're on 260 episodes now. There's a lot of content there around financial independence. And that's the best way to get in touch with me. - Great, man. And again, I second that you check Josh, check out Josh's podcast. You can learn a lot of great information. He put a lot of great detail into each episode.

And it's just, you'll walk away feeling like you just came out of a college class. So, highly recommend it. Thanks so much for coming on the show, Josh. - Thanks, dude. (upbeat music) - Mm, mm, mm. Josh gave us a lot of great information there. You can go ahead and connect with Josh.

Just go back to our website, thesalesevangelist.com/episode224. Again, thesalesevangelist.com/episode224. You can get all the information with Josh, get connected with him, or you can just go ahead and search on your phone right now. If you're not driving, and look up the Radical Personal Finance, you can get connected with Josh.

Again, if you're making money in sales, or you're making money, whatever you're doing, you're gonna wanna learn to control that money. So, check out Josh's podcast. Highly encourage it. Now, Josh gave us a great deal of information today. A lot of them are simple things that you could implement and apply.

I highly encourage you to examine your sales performance and see if these things can be incorporated in how you're selling. You have to apply to see a difference. Again, you have to apply to see a difference. We're coming up on the end of the year. We wanna hit our goals.

We wanna hit our targets. If you wanna accomplish goals you've never accomplished before, you're gonna have to do some things you've never done before, or done effectively before. So, you gotta apply it. I want you to be successful. I want you to be happy. Hope you enjoy. Hope you enjoy a wonderful Thanksgiving with your family members and that you have a great day tomorrow.

We can always be grateful for something in our lives and I'm grateful for the fact that I have you here as someone who listens to the show and someone who continues to share the show and someone who is finding benefits. So, I'm grateful for you. Thank you so much for all you do.

Enjoy your Thanksgiving. Again, I want you to be happy. I want you to be successful. Most importantly, I want you to go out and do big things. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Are you ready to make your next pro basketball, football, hockey, concert, or live event unforgettable? Let Sweet Hop take your game to the next level.

Sweet Hop is an online marketplace curating the best premium tickets at stadiums, arenas, and amphitheaters nationwide. Sweet Hop's online marketplace makes it easy to browse and book the best seats. With no hidden fees and a 100% purchase guarantee, you can feel confident when you book your premium LA tickets with Sweet Hop.

Visit suithop.com today.