Hello, everybody. It's Sam from the Financial Samurai Podcast. And in this episode, I have a very special guest with me, Sean Livingston, four-time NBA champion with the Warriors, three as a player and one as an executive. Welcome to the Financial Samurai Podcast. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

It's great to have you on. You're definitely one of my favorite players of all time. And we've gotten to know each other pretty well over the years. And I really appreciate you reaching out. I remember you first reached out, this was like your last two years of your playing career.

What was the impetus to reach out back then? Yeah. So I had been playing for about 13 years at that point. I think it was around 2018. And it was kind of handwriting on the wall. You know, I went through some injuries. We were going through our run with Golden State, but it was coming towards the end of my career.

I feel it physically, mentally, emotionally. And I was looking at the next chapter and came across this website, Financial Samurai. I said, "What the hell is this? What is this?" And I remember just diving in and just talking about goals and not just retirement and planning, but also life.

And I had just started a family. I just had my first daughter in 2017, got married. So just a whole new experience and really related to the website and been a fan member ever since. No, that's really great to hear. I mean, it's so funny that who would have thought you write a website and an NBA player would come and look and he's thinking about his future.

And I think that's great that you were thinking ahead. And when you talked about the end was near and you talked about the mental and then the physical, what do you think goes first, at least for you, the mental exhaustion or the physical exhaustion of playing in the NBA for so many years?

Yeah, that's a great question. I think it varies player by player. Some guys have to retire real early. You look at different sports like football, right? It's different. Oh, yeah. For me, I think it was mentally and emotionally just exhausting from taking care of all the rehab, all of the training, all the whole process.

The process to be a professional athlete for some, some guys are super athletic, super talented, God gifted, wake out of bed and throw a ball 100 yards or run a 4-4-4. But, you know, at that point in my career, just the, you know, the everyday minutiae of really taking care of your body.

Also the travel, you know, getting up, traveling on the planes, getting in at 4am. This is, you know, an incredible lifestyle. You know, I was grateful for it, but definitely hit different in your 20s as opposed to, you know, your later career in your 30s. So for me, just that mental and emotional exhaustion was starting to take place.

And also by then, how many championships did you win? Yeah, we, we had, we were 2-1 at that point. We were just going into 2018. So we had won our third championship that year. So when you got three, it's kind of like, it's almost kind of like house's money.

You're like, yeah, I got it all. So, I mean, the difference between three and four, it's kind of, is that a big of deal as going from zero to one? Yeah, I mean, it may not feel different. It does feel different actually, because the first one, you know, it's nothing like the first.

Nothing like the first, right. It's just like, it's just getting up there. All, you know, the journey, it's like your life story, right? And you're up there and it's, you know, it's just this huge culmination of, you know, everything you worked for. But then, you know, I think going into the third one and then seeing the fourth one being won as an executive, you know, I think the appreciation, you know, and then the craftsmanship that goes into those because of, you know, you're relying on your experience, you're relying on kind of workforce knowledge, if you will, right.

Yeah. You know, getting there, how to win, how to do it, as opposed to, you know, maybe some of that, you know, athleticism or just excitement, you know, wanting to really do it in the beginning. But I'll take all the rings. I mean, four rings. Well, how many players in the NBA have four rings?

Do you know? Yeah, no, man. Not a lot. It's got to be less than a percent, one percent. Yeah, yeah. It's not a lot. I mean, it's, I'm grateful, you know, who would have thought, you know. If I had signed up 2014, you know, I would have been on that journey.

So right, right. You know, best decision, best decision they ever made. Hey, you had to accept it, right? You got to say no, go and stay. I don't want the millions or whatever your contract. I want to stay. Where were you before Golden State? Yeah. So I was in Brooklyn.

Right, right. I was in Brooklyn playing for the Nets. That year, we had Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Darren Williams. So they had some greats. But it was, you know, it was a gamble because I had a chance to play, you know, it was the year of 2014, 2015. I had an opportunity to play for a couple other teams that offered me around the same contract, the same money.

But the opportunity was too great to play at Golden State. And, you know, it worked out. It worked out. No, it definitely worked out. I mean, back in 2014, I mean, clearly you had to look at the roster composition and the coach. It wasn't Mark Jackson at the time.

I forgot. That's right. Jackson. But did you see that team and say, "Ah, this is a team where it has potential"? How did you go about assessing that, the team aspect before making that decision to join? It's interesting. The year I was in Brooklyn, we played Golden State. They were on an East Coast road trip.

And I want to say this was like the last or second to last game before they were going home. And they were on a back-to-back, just played Miami, who at the time were the defending champions, just beat Miami. And they were really rolling. You know, they had a really good year that year.

Lost to the Clippers in the playoffs. This was a night in January. And I remember going to Chapel. We go to the Chapels before games. You know, just regular routine. And who walks in? Mark Jackson. You know, Mark Jackson walks in. You know, I see him. I nod. I say, "What's up?" We go through Chapel.

And then afterwards, he stops me. And he's like, "Hey, man. Really proud of your journey. We're watching you. Keep going." And I just remember, you know, just him giving me that affirmation. And, you know, somebody that I really respected, Mark Jackson, one of the all-time great point guards out of New York City.

Great coach at the time. Golden State's really rolling, having a lot of success. And so, in the back of my mind, Golden State is like an option. You know, it's like, "Oh, Mark Jackson kind of likes my game." You know, I'm looking at Golden State. They're a team on the rise.

And at this point in my career, I just want to be on a playoff team. And I want to be in the playoffs. Shooting for a chance for a championship. That's all I can ask for. And so, it's just funny how it came full circle. Now, when I signed with Golden State, Mark Jackson had just got fired and Steve Kerr was the new coach.

And so, it's just, you know, ironic how things work out. But I truly do believe, even if Mark Jackson would have been head coach, I might have been playing for Golden State. Yeah. Now, that's interesting. It certainly seems that the coach has a lot of sway in how the roster is built.

And you spent several years as an executive after you played. So, how much power does the coach have? So, if Steve Kerr says, "I want some kid from this college or from this team on the East Coast in the NBA," how much sway do they have to bring them on board?

Yeah. Well, I mean, when you win multiple championships, I think that usually factors in. Right? So, it's really relative to your experience. Similar to probably most corporate jobs, I'd imagine. The more experience, the bigger your resume and your track record, I think the more autonomy that you may have from upper management or your board.

And in that case, Steve Kerr, he had earned his right to really sit at the table. Yeah. And he's the one that's making the coaching decisions at the end of the day. And so, for someone like him to not have a voice, I think it really hinders the development of the team and the direction you're going.

Right. So, it's a case-by-case basis based on the coach and their relationship with the organization. Right. It does seem interesting because some coaches, like Doc Rivers was coach and president or something. So, it seems like he had more say. And I guess some newer coaches have less say. That's right.

And you're seeing more of the hybrid roles, I believe, Greg Popovich, Doc Rivers, and Phil Jackson. But these are household names. Right. I mean, these are names that, you know, guys that won multiple championships. They're honored coaches. But I will say it's very hard to do dual responsibilities. Just like with anything.

You usually outsource maybe the CFO or CMO, right? I mean, it's all different jobs. So, I think with the structure of having a general manager in place and a head coach, and then for those guys to really work together in tangent, that's found to have the most success, I believe.

Right. Let's talk a little bit about your background because I know you grew up in Peoria, Illinois. You're 6'7" and you went straight to the NBA. So, to me and I think to many listeners, you've been one of the trailblazers. You're like a prototype point guard, different type of point guard, like Magic Johnson who was 6'8", 6'9", and you went straight to the NBA.

So, can you talk about that journey from high school to almost going to college and then going to the NBA first and then how you were, I guess, viewed upon back in that day when you were in high school? Yeah. Oh, that was, man, that was a whirlwind of a time.

So, I graduated high school in 2004, it was class of 2004. And at that time, LeBron James had just come out of high school and went into the NBA draft. He was the first pick out of 2003. And that was the famous class of LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Carmelo Anthony.

I mean, hall of famers, right? Yeah, for sure. But LeBron James was the only one out of high school. Kendrick Perkins as well. He's a funny as can be personality. Perks, yeah. Yeah. So, it was a trend. You saw a trend of high school players. Obviously, the Kobe Bryants and the Kevin Garnetts, guys that have gone way before my time.

So, coming into my senior year, I had a lot of whatever you want to call it, hype, you know, around my basketball future. While I go to college, while I go to the NBA. And before my senior year, I signed on to go to Duke University. Right. I was going to play for Coach K.

Coach K. Legendary. Legend. Drank the Kool-Aid. Free tuition, right? That's right. That's right. That's right. Great university, great players. And after my senior year, I played in a couple of All-American games in front of some Pro Scouts. And I did some workouts. And towards the end of my senior year, I was traveling on the weekends, getting out of school early Friday, going up to work out in Chicago with Tim Grover.

Tim Grover at the time had worked with Michael Jordan. So, that was his personal career. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. And, you know, so at that time, MJ had just retired. Tim Grover had just retired. Tim Grover was doing his thing. And he had all the best talent competition coming, you know, and playing pickup, you know, during the summer.

So, guys would come back and play. And so, this was kind of my foray into the NBA world. And so, I remember doing a workout that Steve Kerr actually was at at the time. Oh, really? And he was the general manager of the Phoenix Suns. Oh, yeah. That's right.

And so, he was at this workout. It was 30 NBA scouts. And there was nobody else that I was playing with. It was just one on one workout. Really? Just 30 scouts, you and… 30 scouts. And me and Tim Grover. Me, Tim Grover, and a rebound guy. And he put me through this workout for an hour.

You know, I'm running, running full court, three dribbles, going, "Ah!" Running right down three quarters, going, "Ah!" You know, like showing my handles, dribbling, you know, doing all these different drills. So, after the workout, you know, I'm still deciding, "Do I want to go to the NBA? Am I going to college?" And this was kind of my test.

And I remember Tim Grover, you know, he was kind of, you know, talking with the scouts afterwards. I'm going, getting dressed in the hockey room, kind of finish my second workout for the day. And he comes in. He's like, "You're not going lower than seven. You're not." Oh, nice.

He says, "Atlanta Hawks, they got the seventh pick." He's like, "I know them." He's like, "We're not letting them get lower than seven." So at that point, I'm like, "Okay." Huh. All right. I could be top seven. Like, that's realistic. It's not just draft board. It's not just a mock draft, right?

All right. So, I'm like, "Okay. I can go to college, right, and try to move up to top five, maybe top three." Right. Because, you know, backtracking, my goal, my dream was always to make it to the NBA. I grew up in Peoria, Illinois, Chicago right up the street, the Bulls, MJ, championships, '90s.

That was my dream. Amazing. Exactly. So now, to be going through this, working out with this trainer, the whole nine, this was my dream to make it to the NBA. So the probability and the chances of me going higher than top five, top seven were really low by going to college.

You know, because I could get injured as well. Sure. I could get a heart attack and my stock could fall. You know, there's different things. So I went for it. And so I entered my name in the draft. I hired an agent. I ended up getting picked number four.

Nice. Number four pick out of high school, going to the Los Angeles Clippers. And then it was just, I was like a deer in headlights. I was like, "I made it." You know? You made it. But then I get there and it's like newsflash. It's like the journey starts all over again.

Yeah. You're at the bottom of the totem pole. You know? It's like, "Get the towels, Rook." You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. "Get the bags." Is it one year of hazing or in general? Is that how it goes? They do it differently. It's one year or 82 games, depending on, you know, you got to go through your whole 82.

So if you're injured that first year, you might have to make it up. But usually it's that first year. And you know, so even back then you were going through this cost benefit analysis. You know, in high school you're like, "What is the percentage chance I'm going to make it?" And you're like, "I'm going to make it." And you're like, "I'm going to make it." And you're like, "I'm going to make it." And you're like, "I'm going to make it." And you're like, "I'm going to make it." And you're like, "I'm going to make it." How does the money work in terms of the cliffs?

Like, is it, you know, how does that work? First round money, second round money, guarantees. What does that look like? Yeah, yeah. So usually first round is guaranteed. And then it's a tiered system based on the salary cap. Obviously the salary cap has gone up over the years. So those tiers have been getting bigger.

And you see, I believe the number one pick, maybe, you know, my year was making $4 million. Now the number one pick may be making $12 million. And that's for how many years? For three years, guaranteed. Got it. With a fourth year option. And so, you know, but if you're drafted in the second round based on the economics, some of those guys are signing longer term guarantee deals.

Some of them are signing non-guaranteed deals. But the chance of you playing yourself into a higher deal, you can do that a lot faster than a first round guy. If, you know, so you see guys like Austin Reeves. You see guys like Gilbert Arenas. Max Struess. Max Struess, exactly.

You see these second rounders who, if they crack the rotation and they start to play really well and their stock goes up, I mean, they could sign a long term deal, you know, $50, $60 million plus deal for their second, third year in the league. Whereas as a first rounder, if they extend you and they continue qualifying options and different things like that, you might have to wait four or five years before you see a second contract.

Oh, that's fascinating because, I mean, another guy, obviously, is Draymond Green. Was he first round or second round? Second round. He was picked second round, right? And so he, nobody really kind of was thinking, "Wow, Draymond." But then, obviously, he went into the rotation when David Lee got injured and, obviously, he's a great player now.

That's a perfect example. That's a perfect example. And he signed his long term contract after his third year, right? Right. I mean, so just, you know, all it took was one year for him to crack the rotation and move his way and then we win a championship and now he's, right?

So it's market timing sometimes as well. Yeah. So, I mean, in that sense, in that sense, would it strategically be better maybe to go in a later first round or early second round so the expectations aren't as high so that you have less pressure and you can work your way in versus being a top 10 pick?

Then it's like, "Oh, man, so much expectations." And then you could be a bust and then all that pressure is on you. What do you think about that? Yeah, that's a good question. You know, I think, again, it's one of those where it comes down to the individual. I'm a guy where you have to go for it.

You got to go, you know, don't leave anything on the table. Like if you get a chance to go as high as you can go. But I do, what I will say is I do believe it matters where certain players go, right? For instance, you can look at an organization like the Miami Heat, you know, and the way that they approach things and you look at second rounders able to maximize their talents.

And I believe they get the most out of guys, right? And so, you know, that matters for certain players who, you know, they may need a certain level of coaching or a certain level. Who are their teammates? Who are guys they've been playing with? Does it complement their skill set?

Does it complement their personality, right? So those factors, I think, weigh in on a player's value and a player, you know, how well he's able to perform on the court. Right, right. Let's say you have two variables, your work ethic as a player and your God-given talents with your physical abilities, IQ and all that.

What do you think differentiates or what do you think is more important to getting to the top? Because you got to the top, right? Like nobody gets the NBA, literally 0.01% of people get in the NBA. You have so many ballers all across America, all across the world. Nobody gets in.

How many people are on the team? Like less than, whatever, 15, 16. It's so hard to do. So what would you say was more important for you to get to where you got to go? Your talent, your God-given talent or your work ethic? Like what does that ratio look like?

Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. I'm a believer that your work ethic, I mean, some guys are really gifted. Some people just have God-given talents, God-given IQ, athletic ability, whatever it is. But I'm a firm believer to get to that 0.0001. I talked earlier about it starting over and when you get somewhere you feel like you made it but even when you get there, there's a pecking order.

You're in the sport of competition. So in life, yes, comparison isn't healthy. But in competition, that's exactly like you're looking across, you're constantly weighing yourself against others, trying to outperform the other guy. So in that course, you have to have a work ethic and there has to be some level of, I don't want to say insanity with that work ethic, but it has to be consistent over time.

I think that's where you get a level of professionalism. That's where guys learn how to be professionals. It's when you do something over and over and over again on the days especially that you don't feel like doing it, especially when you're sick, you don't feel well because guess what?

Life is continuing to happen. We have things happen, our spouses, girlfriends, kids, families, financial difficulties, the community, whatever it is that's coming your way. And so are you going to let those things be distracted from you focusing on the main thing? That's the main thing that got you there.

And so I think that ratio has to be tilted towards work ethic because the talent is what it is. Some of that is, you're already there, especially if you made it to that level, which is already really hard. It's already really impossible. There's 450 jobs in the NBA. And that's one of the top leagues in the world.

And so I just think that work ethic and that consistency has to be there or else your shelf life is only going to be so long. Darrell Bock Yeah, because if you're not doing it, someone else is doing it. And I didn't really realize it, but every single year you play, I just kind of take it for granted as a viewer and as a fan.

Oh, Shawn Livingston is great. Steph Curry is great. MJ is great. But every single year someone's coming into the league trying to take your lunch, eat your lunch, and they're going to be your teammates. So you got to be cordial, but also they're trying to take your lunch too and get that big contract.

So you got to really work. You got to keep on going. Jullien Gordon Every year. Every year there's 60 guys, probably 30 to 45 of them are going to be on your roster. So you're adding one, two guys, maybe more. And so again, you might strike gold once, you might get lucky, you might get an opportunity based on your talents, but how can you sustain that level of performance?

How can you continue to have value to a team? And so to me, that's why looking at the household names you see, LeBron James, Stephen Curry, the sustained greatness, their peaks were really super high. And obviously they'll be in those conversations, but where you start really separating yourself is the consistency, the sustained greatness of what they're doing.

20 years, I mean, that's pretty incredible to play at that level, like a Tom Brady or what LeBron's doing. Right? MJ LeBron James Right. And I also have to imagine that a lot of luck is involved as well. Because here in, let's say, the corporate world, the CEO of a company, or not even CEO, let's say just a boss in a division, I truly believe a lot of people can take over the role as the boss or the CEO, but they're just not given the opportunity.

And I'm sure there's a lot of ballers out there who will probably be great or good enough to play, maybe not a lot, but they're just not given the opportunity. And so when I look at, for example, coaches, when I saw Steve Nash get the job as a head coach at Brooklyn Nets, I was like, "What?

The guy's never coached in his life. Yeah, he's a Hall of Famer, he's a point guard, but how did he get the job? Why did he get the job?" I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of assistant coaches out there grinding it out, thinking, "What's wrong with me?" And so it seems like the opportunity is really important to be able to showcase your skills and succeed.

What are your thoughts on that? MJ LeBron James Yeah, it is. You have to, definitely have to have a chance. But I think what Steve was able to accomplish in his pro career, there's a lot of knowledge and there's a lot of value in that, especially with sports being different in the fact that he was a former player.

And I think players, there's something about that correlation there to where we understand the grind, right? We understand what it takes. We understand the dog days, and the ups and downs and the roller coaster. So I think an example like that, yeah, he didn't have any experience. Neither did Steve Kerr, right?

And so you look at those guys, but what they were able to accomplish in the game as players, their respect from former players and players, I think some of those things and dynamics can outweigh the tenure, right? Just being there and having the experience. Not that it should, you still have to perform.

I mean, he's not the coach there yet, because obviously, right? It's a quick turnover. And what have you done for me lately? I mean, that's the nature of pro sports. But yeah, opportunity is important too, I would agree. Ramon Maldonado And I think one of the reasons why I'm, one of the things I'm getting at is when I see the majority of the NBA consists of black players and there aren't more black coaches, that to me, seems like there's a problem.

To me as a fan, I'm like, why aren't there more black coaches? Because a lot of them have played in the NBA, they have the pedigree, they have the experience. I look at your resume, Sean, four championships, three as a player, one as an executive. You've got authority, you've got respect, you're calm, you have experience.

Why not Sean? And so that's the thing that I'm thinking about. Do you think there's an issue with that in the NBA, where there aren't more black coaches? Sean Larkin I don't personally think that there's an issue with that. I think the NBA has done a great job in the diversity field, to be honest with you.

When I look at the landscape of professional sports in general, now, yes, football and basketball, there are a majority of African Americans that play that sport. So that's true. I don't have the statistics in front of me, so I don't want to shoot myself in the foot. I do know that the NBA has been trending towards more African Americans in the coaching spot.

Now in the executive suite and management, I think that's something that the NBA is looking to grow as well. I think that's something that's important for the leagues to grow as well. Because again, you looked at the players and the relationships with the players. It's just important to have synergy all the way across.

That's not to say that different races can't get along. That's not the point. It's more just about the opportunity. It's more just about the communication and the respect. Giving that opportunity to guys that have played as well is important. They know what it takes. They've walked in those shoes.

So I just think it's building those other skills. Can you build those other skills, the soft skills, the day-to-day management skills, some of those corporate skills? Can you build some of those for some of these employees? I think the NBA is doing a good job of trying to move in that direction.

All right. All right. I'm just an outsider looking in. I'm going to name names and not to bag on them. Coach Popovich, obviously a legend, right? I think anybody would be honored to play for him. He's a legend. But let's say there's another coach who's never played in the NBA before.

You don't share the same cultural background. And let's say they've never won a championship. Does it take, as a player, a little bit of time getting used to it and buying into that? Is it harder? Absolutely. I mean, definitely. I think any new coach, it's going to take time to buy in, depending on the player, depending on if you have a veteran team, you have a young team.

What kind of players do you have? What kind of team do you have? That matters. And then from there, how equipped is the coach as far as his knowledge? I mean, he doesn't have experience, but does he know what he's talking about? As far as when it comes time, right?

I mean, when you get up here, we can talk X's and O's. But when you actually get in the game and you have to start making some of these decisions in real time, that's when you start to really know, you start to cut through the weeds. So yes, it does take time for any new coach.

You look at Steve, like I mentioned, Steve Kerr. That's a great example. We won a championship our first year and we had the best record in the league, but there were still hiccups. There were still adjustments. You mentioned Draymond Green, right? David Lee was an all-star. When he came back from his injury, he was an all-star the two years before.

So he didn't want to go back to the bench. So how do you navigate that? And so those are some of the things that are hard to really teach. Those are people skills. So that's where you really see coaches start to separate themselves. Not everybody has them and not everybody, I don't think, has to have them, but I think you have to have a basic level of that in professional sports.

What are your thoughts about being a coach or an executive in the future? Yeah, well, obviously, dove in the last three years with the Warriors and that was great. Gave me a chance to kind of learn as much as possible, get a peek behind the curtain, if you will.

But coaching, not right now. Coaching is more about, I think coaching is about the schedule and right now I'm looking for more flexibility. Yeah. Personally, just after playing for 15 years and just the whole process and the grind. It is a grind and I loved it during that time as a player.

But I think it's more of a timing thing. But for me, I think my skill set, I think I would like coaching. I would enjoy being in the gym, being around players and also having the temperament for coaching. So, we'll see. Maybe down the road. Yeah. How about when LeBron brings the NBA team to Vegas in two or three years and the kids are a little bit older and you're itching to get back.

Does that sound perfect? Sounds like a forecast right there. That's my job. Forecast the future. Sometimes it doesn't come true, but I mean that sounds to me like a no-brainer. What do you say? That's right. That's right. You never know. Endless possibilities. Yeah. You got to keep your options open.

You know, I'd love to talk about the money part of the NBA because as a fan, as obviously players, there's big money involved in the NBA. And I would just love to hear from you. You go from high schooler directly to the NBA and so you got this multi-million dollar contract and then obviously over time you were able to sign more contracts.

How was it like suddenly coming into so much money and is there kind of a money management program in the NBA to help players keep their money? There are programs for players. There is a rookie transition program usually for guys, but it's more of a crash course where guys get together for three or four days and the NBA Players Union puts on kind of like a crash course of what life is going to be like.

Right? Kind of a simulation if you will. And they bring in different professionals, experts, former players, panelists, but there's nothing like the real thing. Right? And so I think the most important thing is obviously your team. Who is on your team of people that you trust? And when these athletes are coming in, we're so young that we just don't have any experience.

How could you? Right? I mean for me coming out of high school, I was just coming out of my parents' house, my grandfather's house. Right. And you're in LA. You've got millions in LA. That's right. That's right. And so, you know, and that itself is kind of a myth.

Having millions right away. Right? It's like, you kind of have to work your way into it. Right? I mean, you know, like I remember getting, you know, for me I signed a shoe endorsement deal with Reebok, which was a really big deal at the time. And you know, I remember one of my first checks, you know, being a quarter of a million, almost half a million dollars and it was like, yeah, oh my God, this is the most money I've ever seen before.

Right? Yeah. Sweet. Let's go buy a Bentley. I mean, and so to, you know, to experience that at such a young age, it's like, all right, let's go to the mall. Let's go here. Let's go there. Fortunately for me personally, I was a very frugal and still am a very frugal human being.

So you know, so that was kind of my nature was always just to kind of like put it away. Don't look at it. You know, and I just kind of continued with my same tendencies. So I remember, you know, you don't really have any money when you, you know, you're going into an MBA.

So when you hire an agent, you're getting a lot of credit and then this is money that's in advance that you really usually have to pay back, you know, once you sign your deal, once you sign, you know, and so, so that was the situation for me. Right. So even that, you know, I'm kind of like, wait a minute, I got to pay all this money back.

I bought a car, you know, I took care of some family issues and things. And I remember flying all my, all of my family out to the NBA draft. And so, you know, again, we're doing all this on, on, on borrowed credit. And so again, when you're coming into, you know, a lot of money, it's easy to just blow it at that young age.

It's easy to just, you know, and take care of people and, you know, especially, you know, family and friends and needs and different things. And so, you know, for me coming in at 18, I bought a house, bought a car, you know, I took care of some family things and that was it.

And I remember being that way. You know, I had two cars probably for maybe about the first four years of my career. One house I did. I bought, I take that back. I bought a condo in Chicago, you know, when I went back to train in the summer. But that was it.

And I continued to kind of remain frugal. But as far as the structure goes, most players trust their agents. Most players rely on their agents for that, you know, information as far as who's going to be your financial advisor. What bank are you going to be going to? I need to get a chef, you know, I need to get, you know, some of these different day to day chores.

And so the agent is usually the kind of the center of the universe and on the business side and making those connections. And so it's really important to have diverse people on your team. And when I say diverse people, I mean people from different backgrounds, people, you know, with different experiences.

Nine times out of 10, those are just usually our friends. Might not be a good idea though. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like, who do you trust? You trust the people you've known the longest. Exactly. Exactly. It's like, I know you, like, you know, but nine times out of 10, again, they don't necessarily have, they're not experts in business, right?

No. We're experts in playing our sports, you know, but not necessarily in finances or how to negotiate, you know, getting a car or, you know, different things or, you know, taxes or so. So it's really important who you trust. It's really important who's on your team. And I think it's really important, even if you are trusting your agent to get a second opinion.

Yes. Right. Yes. You know, my grandfather always said three, three opinions by people that you don't even know. All right. Because then you take out the biases as well, you know, all right now, hopefully they should have some knowledge, you know, some market knowledge. Sure. Yeah. But, you know, it's just important to kind of get different opinions.

And for me and all my decision making, like I haven't made always the best decisions, but I tried to get advice from multiple points. Right. Yeah. No, that's really great advice. Get three opinions, get those biases out and then really analyze where you want to put your money. And, you know, as a as an outsider, I always think to myself, man, if I had NBA money, I would just put 80 percent of it in the S&P 500 index ETF and like, I don't know, 20 percent, maybe some bonds, especially now that rates are over 5 percent and then just kick back because in 10 years I'll have like so much more money.

I mean, that is like the easiest advice like one could have. And the reality is over a 15 year period, I think your money would have tripled. Except one thing you leave it on one thing. We are human beings. We are rational. I mean, come on, what you just said probably makes the most sense.

But I mean, you know, if you probably tell 90 percent of guys, it sounds boring as hell. Come on. I'm 19 years old. What is that? Right, right, right. So so, you know, I say that to say, you know, again, the biases, the excitement, the uncertainty at the human emotion, like, you know, we're excited over things in the human.

Yeah, sounds that sounds amazing. You know, right. And then it's like, oh, actually, that could go to zero, you know? Yeah. And I mean, maybe not even zero. You might be liable for something. Right. You know, right. You hear all these bad stories. Exactly. So, you know, the older and more mature that I've gotten and also just experience from the losses that I have taken.

It's like, you start to realize, like, oh, wait, the boring things are the things that are actually making a lot of money. Right. Really profitable. Right. Right. Right. You know, not always, but usually that that's what you see when you come in to, you know, to a lot of money is you get pitched by a lot of these exciting ideas.

Right. Right. You know, and temptation is a temptation. And then it's also, you know, the emotion of wanting to maybe help people. And, you know, they're relying on your friendship and the trust and, you know, all those things get thrown into the pot. And it's just about the actual idea and, you know, dynamics that go into making this thing successful.

Right. Yes. I mean, what's what's the average NBA career nowadays? Do you know? Well, it was five years when I was playing. And maybe shorter or longer. I mean, let's say it's five years plus or minus one year. I mean, that's not a long career. You're still 27 years old on average if you if you went to college, maybe you're 25 to 20.

And then you got your whole life ahead of you to figure it out. So here's another point, you know, listeners should realize you played for 15 years. So think about that, Sean. I mean, that 15 years has to be like a top 5 percent career in the NBA. And then not only that, you were able to win four championships, was like a top 1 percent.

So I mean, if you ever feel down or bored, you just got to remind yourself about those two things. It's like, I mean, holy blessing. That's amazing. I'm blessed. I definitely it's a blessing. And that time might even be shorter, you know, three to five years. But, you know, I played 13 years, two years I was out, you know, with injuries and right calling my way back into the NBA.

You know, yes. Different leagues and, you know, rehab. So I mean, it's, you know, I mean, it's everybody has their own journey, but you got to you got to focus on yours for sure. Now, I hear you. Well, Sean, it's been great talking to you. We could talk for hours and hours and hours.

Maybe we talk again. I'd love to know, you know, keep in touch and hear about your journey post retirement life. I mean, I guess in conclusion, can you just talk about what's life like? You're technically an early retiree. You know, it's funny, you retired from the NBA, basically about my age, 34, 35.

And then you took a break, right? And then you went back in and then you kind of are retiring again. So we're very similar in terms of like our career paths. And so what's life like now as a second time around retiree? What are you up to? What do you like to do?

Yeah. Yeah, no, it's it's been great, man. I mean, honestly, it's it's you know, it's one of those things to where you just you know, for me, it's like I go with the flow with what's best for my life for the next kind of for that year or, you know, for the next five years.

And for me, it's just when I retired from the NBA, it was it was a shock, you know, because it's something that I did my whole life. You know, what am I going to do now? Right. So this time around, you know, after leaving kind of the executive position with the Warriors, you know, I'm just looking forward to, you know, trying things, trying new things, you know, during this period, I could always I feel like have an opportunity if I'm lucky enough or fortunate enough, you know, to go back and try to work in the NBA.

Yeah, I'm sure you can. No doubt. So, you know, I feel like while I'm young, you know, my kids are young. You know, we just you know, we just transitioned to a new state. Yeah. Why not try it? Try things while I can. So, yeah, I mean, going doing different things, going back to school, doing different investments, doing community work back home.

Yeah. Just focusing on different initiatives and things that, you know, I enjoy doing with my time. But I can't be a busybody. So, you know, it's like trying to keep that anxiety off you of like constantly, you know, work or do something. Right. Yeah. It's like an entrepreneur life.

Like, yeah, you've got to figure out a healthy balance of balance, schedule look like. So that's right. That's where it's at. That's where it's at. Yeah. I mean, it's it's tough because obviously, the NBA career is a grind during the season, traveling, working out and everything and then to just suddenly shut it off.

I know you and I, we went for a walk down in the marina that during COVID and it's just trying to figure it out. It's just and I'm really glad you went back into the executive world because you saw the other side. Right. And now if you never go back for some reason, you will at least never wonder what was it like.

And that that is actually really powerful to have a regret minimization where you won't wonder because you tried it. And so I really enjoy your journey and I hope you do a lot more great things. And what's next? I mean, I hope I hope to see headlines one day, you know, within three years, you know, Sean Livingston joins X team as the GM or whatever.

I think that'd be great. And I think by then you'll have enough downtime to sow your own and do other things. Hopefully, you'll invite me back on the podcast. I hope you come back. All right, Sean. All right. Catch you later. I appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Thanks for having me.

Hey, everybody. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Sean. It was truly an honor and a pleasure to speak to him and listen to his journey. He went from the highest of highs as number four pick in the draft to the lowest low. It was after a devastating knee injury and then how he battled back through multiple teams to land with the Warriors to win not three but four NBA championships.

What an amazing story. What a blessing. What a journey. I am absolutely sure he will be an incredible coach or an incredible general manager if he is given the opportunity if he decides to pursue that path. One of the things that really stood out to me from this conversation was how important work ethic was and is to sustain an NBA career.

We're talking an average career lifespan of four to five years, but Sean lasted for 15 years. So it's not good enough to be talented. You have to work on your talent and keep on going. All right, everyone. If you enjoyed this podcast, I'd love a share, subscribe and a positive review.

It helps keep me going. Every single episode takes hours and hours to produce. And if you want to keep in touch, check out the Financial Samurai newsletter at FinancialSamurai.com/news. Talk to you all later. you