Welcome to Radical Personal Finance, the show dedicated to providing you with the knowledge, skills, insight, and encouragement you need to live a rich and meaningful life now while building a plan for financial freedom in 10 years or less. My guest today is Rod Khalif. Rod is a long time, what do you call yourself, Rod, a real estate investor?

How do you introduce yourself to the cocktail party? I wear a lot of hats. I've been in real estate my entire life, but I've also owned about 18 businesses, but real estate is my love. Well, this will be interesting because sometimes when people say, "I've owned many businesses, that could be a great thing," sometimes that can be a bad thing.

Oh, no, I can tell both stories. I've had spectacular successes, but equally spectacular failures. So that means you've been involved in business then, huh? Yes, I have. We call them seminars, though. We don't call them failures. We call them seminars. I like that. That's good. So, I mean, to start at the beginning, what was your path into the business and real estate world?

Well, I immigrated when I was six from Holland, and my mom and I and my brother immigrated on a boat and ended up in Denver. And we grew up... Why did you guys come over here? Well, my mom and dad had gotten a divorce, and she had met a guy through mail correspondence that his wife had died.

And so my mom had two sons. He had two sons, and he lived in Denver, and he needed a housekeeper. So he agreed to allow her with us to come and live in his home. They ended up getting married and having a son. So it was yours, mine, and ours, five boys in this house.

But we didn't have much. It was a very, I won't say poverty, but it was low on the economic scale. We had to... I remember my clothes came from the Goodwill. We had powdered milk instead of regular milk because it was cheaper. We had day-old bread. And I don't have any regrets about that because I really believe that's where I got my drive from.

But I got into real estate when I turned 18. I went out and I got my broker's license, which you were able to do then in Colorado without experience. You could go directly to broker. And typically, you go from an agent to a broker. But I made the paper because I just turned 18.

I got my broker's license, made my mom proud. And I got into real estate. And I started buying and selling real estate. Didn't really make very much money. I'm sorry, I started helping other people. I acted as a broker in real estate my first couple of years and didn't make very much money.

And then I started buying. And I ended up buying about 500 houses in Denver as a buy and hold strategy. And then I went to Memphis, bought a couple of hundred houses there. And this is a decade we're talking about now, this period of time. And then ended up in Florida, where I've been for 16 years.

I love it. I've bought between 1,300 and 1,400 houses here in Denver. And by the way, I would not recommend... Denver or Florida? Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida. Sorry. By the way, I would not recommend what I've done to anybody. And when 2008 hit, I had one of those seminars I was talking about, and it was the biggest one ever.

It was a huge one and got my butt handed to me. And what was interesting is my houses didn't do great, but I had multifamily properties at the time as well. So, you know, I've had a couple thousand houses in my career, but I've also had numerous multifamily apartment buildings.

And those did just fine through the contraction in '08, the crash. And so, you know, my big... What I enjoy talking about now is multifamily real estate because I really believe that's the ticket. I know a lot of people have made a lot of money in houses. I've made a lot of money in houses, but, you know, here in Florida particularly because the taxes and insurance are high and the caliber of houses that I was buying were kind of the low end.

So there was a lot of turnover. I had to sell a house occasionally or refinance a house occasionally to make it. And I'd refinanced a few too many. And so when '08 happened, yeah, I got my clock cleaned and... But it's all good, you know. I learned the lesson.

I got the memo. And now my focus is multifamily investing. Love talking about that. In hindsight, what have you changed in your thinking and your strategy since 2008 based upon your lessons? Yeah, well, I'm a lot more cautious. I won't say to a fault, but I'm much more conservative than I was then.

And you know... How so? How is that being expressed? Well, you know, we've looked at... We look at a whole lot of properties before we pull the trigger. Now again, we're at the... You know, fairly high in a cycle right now. We're at the crest of the wave where, you know, I feel like there's a contraction coming.

In fact, you know, as you know, I have a podcast and I interview people as well. And I interviewed a guy that was a billionaire and he has 35,000 apartment units. And he said, "Hey, there's a contraction coming in the next like 24 months. It's not going to be as bad as '08, but it's going to be a pullback." And then I interviewed somebody else that has a few hundred million dollars with the real estate, said the exact same thing.

And when people of that magnitude say these things, you start listening. And you know, I've been through three of these cycles already. Nothing like '08 though. So I'm going in with both eyes wide open, Josh. I counsel people that flip houses and I tell them, "Listen, if you're going to flip houses, that's great.

It's a great way to make money. But I would not be doing higher end houses right now because you should have a second exit strategy just in case the market contracts. Because when it does, financing will dry up and you won't be able to sell. So you better be able to rent or have another exit strategy." So it's things like that.

It's things like, you know, when I'm looking at a multifamily complex, I want to look at the worst case, you know, what happens. And I want to be able to tell my investors this. And I do. And that, you know, if the market contracts and cap rates, which is how commercial property and multifamily property is measured, it's a multiple of the net operating income.

It's called a capitalization rate. If cap rates go up, then values go down. And it's possible in this upcoming contraction that cap rates could go up a little bit. And if that happens and you buy a multifamily property with the idea that you can refinance it or sell it in four or five years, again, you better either have a second exit strategy or make sure that you plan a little more long term in case this contraction that everybody talks about comes to fruition, which, you know, I kind of believe it will after the election.

So it's things like that. It's looking at the exit strategies, looking at having a little longer measuring tape as it relates to your liquidity event after you've purchased a property. So I'm getting a little detailed here, but I really don't know how to how else to answer your question.

I mean, that you know how I look, you know, these are the things I'm thinking about and looking at. Detailed meat is exactly what the Radical Personal Finance audience is looking for. We're meat eaters. We're not fluff eaters. So, yeah, so so that's what I you know, I look at, you know, I have a little longer window in my in my analysis of properties because, you know, I want to I want to be OK and have my investors be OK if you know that or when that contraction happens, if we can't liquidate right away.

So, you know, I want to make sure the debt is long enough. Like I wouldn't want to do a five year balloon right now. I'd want to do a seven to 10 year balloon, ideally 10 years just to just to, you know, be safer. And I wouldn't have been that careful.

And I wasn't that careful prior to 08. But you know, when you have a big seminar like that, you learn. That's. I want to ask a question, and this is a sincere question. It's not it's not meant as a as a means of entrapment. It's a sincere question. Here's the question.

When you talk about, you know, having owned all these hundreds and I mean, your website says over 2000 apartments and homes. The scale of that number to me is a little bit mind boggling. What is the word you're looking for? Well, I mean, that's a recipe for pain. I guess I think about it and I have pain, you know.

Listen, listen, my my forte is systems. OK, I'm good at systems. And I was able to buy these houses. I mean, I didn't buy bulk packages of houses. These are one off one at a time. I was going to ask that one at a time. I bought 2000 houses.

And, you know, I got lucky in Denver. I mean, you know, people say you luck combined with action, you know, is really is really how to be a success. But I did take action. But I was in the right place at the right time there because the market had just crashed.

I got in and everybody was hurting and they were giving they were selling houses to investors for 500 down. And then it went to 5 percent down. And I had a real estate license, a broker's license. So I got a 6 percent commission whenever I sold or bought a house.

So do the math. I was getting houses with nothing down basically. And and I, you know, I got a lot of partners involved. You know, if your listeners are interested in getting into the real estate space, you've got to educate yourself because you've got to have confidence because that confidence will give you the ability to influence.

And and you need that ability if you're going to bring partners into deals and and and and you've got to have the knowledge so that that you don't you know, you don't damage your partners that you do it right. And I brought in partners in in in Denver and bought a lot of houses that way, ended up buying most of them out.

But but, you know, I bought them one at a time and renovated them and rented them out. And again, it's systems. And again, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. And that's why I say if you're interested in getting into real estate investing, really think about multifamily. It's so much easier for a whole bunch of reasons.

So so we'll go to multifamily in just a second. But that's I guess that's the question I was driving at when I do this this show. Part of it is for my audience and part of it is for me. I kind of think that if I indulge my curiosity and ask you the questions that I'm interested in, then the audience will benefit.

And so as a young man, I'm 31 years old. And as I think about my own personal real estate investment strategies, I've only I've never owned an invest a real estate investment property with the goal of investment yet. And I've been studying my local market and partly studying it and partly waiting on a couple of things in my personal life and partly waiting on changes in the market cycle.

But as I look at it, it's just so mind boggling the high volume. And I think, OK, I buy a good house a year. John Shobb strategy of buy a three, two. That strategy has just really resonated with me. And so I think, OK, I'll just buy a house a year.

Maybe then after a few years, maybe a couple of houses and you wind up, depending on the number over the course of a couple of decades, you wind up with a portfolio of houses that you like and it's enough money. And then you can maybe do some partner deals on the side and it seems relatively low stress.

2000 houses just sounds crazy stressful. Did you make money that it was worth it? Oh, no, I made a ton of money. I mean, I built a 10 million dollar testament to my ego on the beach here in Florida. You know, the Lamborghini, you know, I did. I mean, I had big goals.

I had big dreams. And and my life has changed. And what drives me now, you know, like I just did. I was mentioning to you before we started on the air here, I just did a goal setting workshop. And so this is kind of fresh in my mind. And I showed pictures of these things that I've that I've acquired over the years from that house on the beach to, you know, my present compound on the on the water to, you know, these cars that I thought were important, the Rolls Royce, the Lamborghini, these things that I thought were important, which I don't any longer.

But but, you know, I wanted to prove something, because, again, from my upbringing, I came from from very little and I had something to prove, I think, you know, and and and so I wanted to do it bigger. And it was just to me, it was easy. The systems were easy.

And it was like, why isn't everybody doing this? You can buy these houses for, you know, 30, 40 grand fully financed. I can rent them in cash flow. And I'm like, why isn't it the reason everybody wasn't doing this because they just had their butt kicked, you know, in the in the crash prior to when I was buying in Denver.

But, you know, I guess I've just always tried to think a little bigger. And and like I said, I want to look great. Yeah, I want to look crazy with the houses. I wish that I had done it with multifamily because I wouldn't have gotten my clock cleaned in a wait.

But, you know, hindsight's 20/20 and and it's OK because, you know, things are going well now. But, you know, I think it's those goals that that, you know, people have and yours, you know, your your your your your your way of the way you just described how you would do it, a house at a time.

There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's fantastic. I would just give it a caveat. I would just say instead of a house, do a duplex, do a fourplex. Sell me on multifamily. And let's switch to there. Why should I pursue multifamily housing instead of single family housing? Well, I guess put a picture of my my face on the wall, my ugly face on the wall, because I had the houses.

OK. And and, you know, the thing with a house is if if it's empty, you're 100 percent vacant. OK. And if you've got a mortgage on that house, you're going to be paying that mortgage. Now if you have a duplex or a fourplex and you've got a unit empty, you may very well still be breaking even.

So, you know, if you're thinking houses, see what's in your market for duplexes and triplexes and quads, because not only are they safer, they're they're they're going to be better to survive a contraction. People need a place to live. You know, right now, in my opinion, real estate is about cash flow.

You shouldn't even be looking at value. You should be totally focused on cash flow. And this is again is from my seminar. Had I paid more attention to cash flow, I would have survived the crash. But, you know, I was I was you know, I had a big ego because in 2006, my net worth went up 17 million dollars.

OK, that's just by sleeping. My net worth went up 17 million bucks in '06, but that was '06. OK. And I you know, it went down a whole lot more than that in '08. But had I focused on cash flow instead of value, you know, I'd be on the back of my yacht right now, frankly.

So, you know, that's I like multifamily because it's safer. It's easier to manage. OK. I mean, you can imagine I had 800 houses here in Florida when it crashed. I had houses two hours north of Sarasota and two hours south of Sarasota and everywhere in between. Just the logistics of leasing an empty property, the logistics of handling a maintenance call.

But even let's do it on a smaller scale. Let's say you've got five to ten houses and they're spread throughout town. You send a maintenance guy out there, you know, he's got to go see what it see, what it needs. Chances are the mechanical in each one of the houses is going to be different.

The appliances are going to be different. So from a maintenance standpoint, much harder to manage from a leasing standpoint versus like a 10 unit. So you know, or a five unit or a four unit. It's just easier to manage. It's easier to lease. It's it's you know, it's it's going to it's going to be contraction.

I won't say proof, but much safer if for when a contraction happens because of what I said about vacancies. And you know, frankly, they're going to go up in value as much or more than a single family house. So you know, honestly, buying a duplex or a quad is just as much work as buying a house.

I mean, it's the same amount of work to buy a house as it is to buy a plex. If you're thinking, you know, that size. And frankly, buying a 10 unit is as easy as buying a fourplex. So you know, why not? That's my answer to your question. Why not?

So you live there in Sarasota. So I mentioned John Schaub. Yeah, that's where he's from. I really connected with his, I guess, just with this, the simplicity of his books and his approach. So he takes those things on and here and I'd love to hear your rebuttals because this is what real estate people do is argue with one another left and right.

But here are his rebuttals in favor of single family houses. Number one, that housing, single family houses, because they are not just in the investor marketplace, meaning that you're not just dealing with professional investors who are swapping properties around. Single family houses can benefit from the potential for higher appreciation than multifamily because you've got people who may want to move in there.

They want to live there. They're buying in the retail marketplace based upon what they want. They're liking the neighborhood there. They move there and they want the house and you fix it up. So you have a potential for higher appreciation than multifamily. Great, great comment. Great comment. Let me give you my rebuttal.

Go for it. My rebuttal is what's your end game? Okay. It's a question. Are you interested in cash flow or are you interested in flipping houses? Okay. If you're interested in flipping houses, John Schaub's model is fantastic. Okay. Buy a house. You know, maybe flip it right away. Maybe sit on it for a while.

Sell it. Sell it within a few years. But if you're interested in lifetime, long-term cash flow, then you're much safer in a multifamily property for the reasons I said. If that house is empty, you're 100% vacant. Okay. Granted, yes, it does open up to all the buyers that are out there if you're in single family homes.

So if your goal is to buy and ultimately sell, then certainly houses should be on your horizon. But if you're interested in lifetime cash flow, an annuity, something for your kids, buying something that someone else is going to pay off, please consider multifamily instead. That's my two cents on that one.

Number two, he talks about single family housing as being advantageous for low hassle management if purchased and rented out appropriately, meaning that not dealing with low-end properties, but his model, buy a 322. That way you're dealing with middle-class people. And then you're not getting professional tenant. By renting out that type of house, you're getting a higher quality tenant, and you have the potential for building a much longer-term relationship with the tenant.

I don't remember what the exact number was. I respectfully disagree with that last comment about the longer-term relationship. I've owned properties where people have been in there for literally 20 years. I'm looking at a 20-unit right now in my general area, 24-unit, I think, actually. And there are people that have lived there for 30 years.

These are little duplex apartments. So I don't agree with that last comment. But listen, if you're going to buy houses, I completely agree with John. Buy 322s because there's always a demand. And yes, you can position the house, the renting of the house, so that it is less maintenance.

Typically, that involves a lower rent payment, though. You drop your rents down a little bit, and you tell the tenant, "Listen, I'm going to give you this great deal on this place, but I don't want you to call me for every maintenance thing. If it's going to be over $100, then you call me and we'll work it out.

But if it's less than $100, I don't want to hear from you because I'm giving you this deal so that this is a hassle-free investment for me, too." And that is a great strategy. And I think that might be what John's alluding to. I've never actually read any of John's stuff.

I just know he's a local here, and he's a great guy with a great reputation. But that's a way to do houses, and I did that with houses. You can also do lease options on houses. I did hundreds of those where you get a few thousand dollars up front, and you give an option to buy over a period of time, and they'll typically take better care of the house.

That said, and I've tried all these strategies. That said, I am interested in long-term wealth. I'm interested in, and I was talking about the people I've interviewed, and that billionaire I interviewed. I asked him, I said, "Do you sell?" And he said, "No, I'm not a real estate seller.

I'm a real estate buyer." And everybody that I've interviewed, they all regret ever selling any of their real estate. It's always a regret. They always wish they'd have held onto it because of what happens. I tell you, my houses in Denver, I sold all those houses, and I sold them in the $100,000 range.

I just sold the house next door to my mom for $320,000 in Denver. Now, if my dumb rear end hadn't sold my Denver houses, do the math on 500 houses at $320,000. It's a big number. So I have the same regrets, and that's why, to me, there's nothing else you can buy that someone else pays off.

There's nothing better than free and clear real estate. I met a guy in Denver, an old Jewish guy, and I was looking at his apartment complexes. This is decades ago, and I was just a 20-year-old punk, and I said, "Hey, you know, I want to buy your apartments." And he had them free and clear.

He was a funny guy, but he said something to me that I've never forgotten, and that was, "Son, if you buy apartments and you let other people pay them off, when they're free and clear, you will have buckets of money." And I've never forgot that visual of buckets of money, and so that's why I advocate for multifamily now.

But if you were starting over, a young man took away all your advantages, took away all your connections, and said, "You've got to start over today, 2016," how would you approach the challenge of starting with nothing and getting rich? Give me the actual steps. Absolutely, and this is what I tell people.

I take free phone calls from people that listen to my thing, and I tell them, "Take two approaches, okay? One, get out there and educate yourself, number one. Take the courses or find the books. You can learn a lot from podcasts. Don't get me wrong, and that's a fantastic vehicle, but you really need more than that if you're going to get serious about real estate investing.

You need to know what a contract looks like. You need to know the nuances of talking to sellers and brokers and bankers. So number one, there's two tracks. Track number one is educate yourself, okay? So you don't make the mistakes that I made, and trust me, I'm the poster child for mistakes because I did not do that.

I did not educate myself. I'm a fire, fire, fire, fire again, and then think about ready and think about aim. But I would educate yourself, number one. Number two, get out there and immerse yourself in the marketplace. Go kick the tires, go start talking to brokers, start evaluating properties, run the numbers on properties, learn, and do this in your backyard.

You know, learn about real estate. Go to your local real estate investor club meetings. I mean, that's where I just came from. I did a little goal-setting workshop for mine, and there's really nothing in it for me anymore because I don't need to learn, but I do learn. What's funny is I do learn when I do that anyway, but the point is get out there and actually immerse yourself in whatever it is you're going to do, be it real estate, be it anything.

Immerse yourself in it because you're going to learn by doing. But what people do sometimes, they'll do one or the other. Like I did just the, I just did it, and I didn't learn, and I made so many mistakes. Had I done the courses or learned more about what I was doing, I would have made a lot more money and saved myself a lot of heartache.

So I would do both of those simultaneously. Actually be looking and educate yourself. And that's what I would do if I had to go back in time to do it right. So now next steps. I'm a learner, I'm studying, and I'm out there doing. What tactically am I doing?

Okay, sure, sure, sure. Remember, I alluded to this earlier, okay? And that is you don't need money to buy real estate, okay? What you need is knowledge, confidence, and the ability to influence, okay? And if you know what you're talking about, and you know your market, and you find a deal, and you're confident in your abilities, you'll be able to influence somebody to go in on it with you, okay, and put up the money.

I mean, I bought 500 houses. Most of them, other people put up the money, and I got half the deal. So that's what I would do is I'd get out there and I'd network, but I'd do the first two things I talked about. I'd be out there looking at deals, I'd be understanding the market, I'd be learning everything I possibly could about the market, I'd be educating myself, and I'd be networking and talking about what I'm doing.

You know, if somebody, you know, have an elevator pitch. If somebody literally is standing there, and you've got their attention for two minutes, they need to know what it is you do. Hey, I look for fantastic deals in real estate. I'm always looking for partners. If you know anybody that, you know, wants x-ray to return, let me know.

You know, I find some great deals, and those are the things that I did. That's what I did, and that's what I would do again. How do you build a team, a company that does this so it's not just one person? Well, if we're talking about real estate specifically, you need somebody to help you with the numbers.

You need somebody to help you with the evaluation of the properties, and really, particularly if you're in a multifamily space. I've got a CPA that's on my payroll. And I've always had, you know, a high-end bookkeeper prior to having the CPA. Somebody that can help you, you know, do an analysis, maybe do a proforma on the property.

You know, you want to know how to do it yourself. You know, either have some evaluation software or, you know, be able to utilize Excel. I would have, you know, a team. I would have an attorney, a real estate attorney, somebody that's actually doing the types of deals you're interested in doing, be it residential, be it, you know, multifamily.

Ideally want an attorney that is actually an investor that owns his own property because then he really understands it. I would have either a good title company, if that's what you have in your state, title companies, or sometimes it's just attorneys. I would have a relationship with a title company.

I would go out there and meet as many brokers as possible in whatever caliber or sector of real estate you're interested in buying. And those are the very important relationships. You know, you buy them a cup of coffee, you tell them that, you know, tell them you're new if you're new.

Don't be afraid to tell them that. And you won't get the, when you're developing broker relationships, you won't get the high-end brokers that are moving, you know, big tons of property. They won't waste their time with you, but there'll be lots of brokers that will, and you'll learn a lot from them.

And you'll get referrals to good management companies. You'll get referrals to good attorneys. You'll get referrals to, you know, people that sell the insurance. You'll get referrals to the bankers, the mortgage brokers. And these people will all refer each other. And that's the other thing you're going to need to develop a relationship with your local banker or with a mortgage broker for the financing for whatever caliber of property you need.

But again, all of this stuff, even building the team, you'll get if you've educated yourself, because any good course is going to talk about team. And these are things that you really, and how to approach like a broker with, you know, because you need to know that a broker doesn't get paid unless the property actually closes.

So, you know, they don't want to have you tie up a property if you're not going to be able to pull the trigger on it. So you need to know how to talk to them and reassure them and sell them basically. And so I think I've touched on most of the team there.

I mean, if you're going to be doing value-add properties where you want to fix a property up, then you're going to need a good maintenance man or a good contractor. You know, I actually typically in every state that I've ever bought in, I've actually started a real estate company.

I've hired a broker, put them on my payroll and that way I have access to the MLS. I am able to share in the fees that are collected when we buy or sell a property because I own the real estate company or own a part of the real estate company.

The broker typically has to own part of it as well. But you know, I mean, there are lots of... You can take this thing a lot of different directions and, you know, a team is very, very important. I would go to your local real estate investor club meetings if you're thinking real estate and meet people there.

There'll be hitters there. There'll be people that, you know, that might be able to be mentors to you. I highly recommend that you do that as well. And you know, if you're going to buy a larger property, a larger multifamily property, you're probably going to need what's called a sponsor.

And that's somebody that owns similar property that has a decent net worth that will sign on the debt for you. And you're going to give away a chunk of the deal for that. But that's okay to give away a chunk of the first one or two or three deals.

Because once you've got two or three deals, then you have the ability to take down a larger property. But initially, you know, to buy a larger property, you're likely going to need somebody called a sponsor. And you'll negotiate how much they get for the privilege of using them and their net worth and their experience to take down the property.

You've been broke and you've been rich. I have. I have been really broke. And I've been doing pretty darn well too. What is the best thing about being rich? Well, now if I answer that question today, it's the ability to give back. If I answer that question 20 years ago when I was young and stupid, it was to be able to buy a Lamborghini and a Maserati and Corvettes and a Rolls Royce and Panteras and stupid stuff.

But today, the best thing and the best thing for me today about having money is security and peace and the ability to give back. And just to be incredibly grateful, which I think you can do without being rich. But if you certainly should do that anyway, whether you have money or not, you should be grateful.

But it's definitely the ability to give back. What changed between 20 years ago when you were young and stupid and today? Well, luckily, I met a guy named Tony Robbins 16 years ago. And I was a real narcissist before then. It was all about me, me, me. How can I show them I'm good enough?

How can I show them that I'm worthy? That was my mindset because it was tough coming from another country, not speaking English. I get picked on at school and so I kind of felt the need to prove myself. But I met Tony Robbins and was so blown away by his technology.

I've been involved with him for 16 years and actually do a lot of volunteer work with him and it changed my life. So like what, 11 years ago, maybe it's been 16. 16 years ago, I formed a foundation to start feeding kids and went out and got the idea from him.

And my brother and I decided to feed five families for the holidays, for Thanksgiving it was. And so we went and bought food and we found five families through a church that really needed help. And I went to one of the doors and it was a really crappy house.

And it was like a shack. And this woman came out, saw the food, it was the day before Thanksgiving and she started crying. Her husband had left just not that long before then, like a few days before then. And the five kids came out that she had and they all started crying and I was hooked.

And so the next year I did 50 families. The year after that I did 100 and I doubled it every year, 200, 400, 800. And then in 2007 I did 1600 families and I paid for it. And just incredible joy. Now since then I started taking donations because '08 happened and I was filled with fear and I formed a foundation and we've now fed 40,000 kids for the holidays.

And then a few years ago we started doing backpacks filled with school supplies and we have done thousands of backpacks filled with school supplies. In fact, a week from Saturday we're doing it here in Sarasota. We're doing 1500 backpacks. It's just astounding to me that kids in the United States of America don't have the basic school supplies to be a success in school.

I just, don't get me started, that just makes me crazy. But anyway, so we're doing 1500 backpacks here locally and then we also have given thousands of teddy bears to the local police departments for officers to keep in their vehicles when they encounter a child that's experienced some trauma of some sort.

And that has given me my greatest joy in life. So that's what I would say to somebody. That's the advantage of being rich or having money is the ability to share and give back. When you were younger and more broke than you are now, I would imagine when you're dreaming about being rich, you were thinking of something.

What was the thing that you were dreaming of that life would be like when you were rich that turned out not to be so? Oh, good question. What was I dreaming about? Well, you know, it's funny. As you focus on the outcome, you focus on the goal and it's always a letdown when you achieve it.

I built this $10 million house on the... And I just told this to the guys in the goal setting workshop, so it's fresh. I built this $10 million house and I'm floating in the pool. Look at... It's at night and this pool was spectacular. It was a waterfall from the second floor into the pool and it changed colors.

It had the... I forgot, the fiber optic lighting and it changed colors. I'm laying in this pool and I got depressed. It's like I just built this huge testament to my ego and I'm depressed. And I realized that it's never about the goal. It's about who you become while you're trying to achieve the goal.

It's about the journey. It's never about the outcome. And like I told these people in this goal setting workshop, it's whenever you get close to reaching a big goal, you should definitely have other goals lined up because, you know, like the good book says, without a vision, the people perish and you need a vision for the future.

And I didn't have one at that point when I was floating in the pool and I didn't realize why I was depressed. And I've learned now since then why that happened. But you know, that's... There's my answer. What else? What else? Well, you know, I would tell you listeners, if you're thinking about getting into real estate investing or you think whatever any business that you're thinking about getting into, make sure that you have written goals.

Make sure that you have the whys for those goals written down. Make sure that you incorporate giving back if it's to your family, if it's to doing something for your parents or your children or whatever. Make sure that's incorporated in the whys. And my advice would be get pictures of those goals.

I have pictures all over my workout room and my office of the things that I want, the things that I want to accomplish. And it's funny. I was just showing the people at this event my work, my planner, my Franklin planner, my daily planner. And I've got pictures in the back that have been put in the sheets of plastic.

And they've been there for 16, 17 years. And three fourths of those things I have now because, you know, I visualize them and I visualize as if I already had them. So I would tell you guys that are listening, do that. Do the goals, do the whys, do the pictures, visualize yourself as already having those things and you will get them.

So, you know, that's what else. Do you have kids, Rod? I have two. I have a 25 year old daughter. She's in Japan teaching English. And I have a 21 year old son that's here in Florida. I'm trying to get him into real estate, but I'm not sure it's for him.

But he's just kind of coasting through it right now while he's deciding what he wants to do. But how effective do you feel that you've been in teaching them the skills of wealth and passing on some of the lessons that you've learned to them? Embarrassingly ineffective because I didn't have much.

I spoiled them. And like I bought them each vehicles when they turned 16. And I would not recommend that to anybody. If you've got young children, don't buy them a car. Make them work for it. That's one of my bigger regrets. And I went through a nasty divorce, unfortunately.

And because I only had them half the time, I wasn't able to influence them like I would have liked to. And I'm not going to get into the detail of how that manifested itself with the ex. But no, I don't feel like I was nearly as effective as I could have been.

And I wish I had been. Now I'm making up for lost time. My son was at this goal setting workshop and he was very, very proud of me and is proud of me anyway. And both of my children will be big successes. But could I have done it better?

Absolutely. Well, it's a common challenge. Because what happens is you grew up in relatively poor circumstances, buying clothes from Goodwill, using powdered milk. And so you want to give your kids something better. But the problem is that those circumstances in some ways, either you could say, well, maybe they shaped you or formed you.

You could at least say they contributed to who you were and to some of the things that drove you to work hard and to build certain attitudes and habits and character traits. And then if you take those experiences away from your kids, as is common among wealthy parents wanting to give their kids something better, sometimes you deny those experiences that are going to be formative.

So I'm curious, in your interactions with other wealthy people or even just yourself, if you were going to give somebody some advice from just what you've learned, the hard way, the great way, whatever way, of how to work with children and train children around wealth, how would you approach that advice?

>>Well, I would definitely not give them everything. I would make them work. I would instill a work ethic in them. And that's a tough thing to do, particularly if you're in a fragmented home where you only get them half the time. That's another component. Mom lets us do this.

Or while you have them, you want to give. And there's a book called "The Five Languages of Love," and it talks about these five ways that everybody's got one way that they primarily give love. And mine is giving. Okay, mine's gifts. And so that doesn't serve you when you're trying to raise a child to be self-sufficient and to have a great work ethic and to want.

And like my son, for example, he's, like I say, he's 21. And he throws it up at me that he's not in school right now. He actually dropped out of college just recently to come work with me in this real estate. But he throws it up at me that I didn't go to college, which I didn't.

I never have gone to a single class in college. And I had a $50 million net worth in 2008. And so, but I'm very well read and I'm very driven, which he's not. And so it's very important that, obviously, he's using me as an example. And I'm not a good example because I had such a drive that I went out there to learn.

And I'm always learning and constantly trying to learn and curious. And so what I would tell parents that are listening is try to make your children as curious as possible. Don't give them everything. Make them work for it, even if it's painful, because they'll be so glad you did.

And I mean, we're working through it now. My son and I are working through it. And my daughter will be a huge success. I already know that. But I'm sharing things that have gone on over the last 10 years in my life with my children and the regrets that I have.

And you got me to be a little vulnerable here, Josh. Good job. I don't think I've ever talked about this publicly before. But that'd be my advice, is to give them that work ethic. And don't give them everything, because it spoils them. It truly does. And now my son's working hard.

He's working two jobs. And he's tired all the time. And that's OK. And that's what it takes. So don't feel guilt about making them work and support themselves. He's struggling. He's got his own little place now. And it's tough. But it's OK, because that's how you grow. That's how you get strong.

That's how you deal with when life kicks you in the butt. That's how you get back up again. Because if you don't train them to do that, when they fall, they're going to stay down. And as I mentioned, I've had 18 businesses. Some have been successes. Some have been spectacular failures.

But I've gotten back up every single time because of my work ethic, because of my goal setting, because of my visualization of the things that I want. And you need to instill that in your children. I would recommend you have them write their goals. I would recommend-- my son has a vision board.

Have them do vision boards of the things they want. Have them think about the future beyond their cell phones. And so hopefully that answered your question. Yeah, it's really useful. And I appreciate your being willing to share. These are some of the things that matter. And you mentioned vision boards.

It's easy to put a black Corvette on a vision board. It's a little harder to put-- help my children to grow into confident, capable adults. I will tell you, it's really not. And I respectfully disagree. Because my son is dyslexic, and he has a very hard time reading. And so on my vision board, I have a picture of him reading when I'm reading to him.

And that prompted me for literally years to read to him every single night. And we did. Every night I had him, I read to him. We went through the whole Harry Potter series. So you can visualize what you want for your children. And I will tell you, and I don't do it anymore, and I should start doing it again.

I used to visualize, I would sit and I would think about my children coming to me with their children and successful and happy. And I would visualize them coming to me. Because I will tell you guys, those of you listening, that stuff works. It really works. So visualize what you want in life, be it with your children, be it with your success, with your spouse, with your health, as if it's already there.

And do it with gratitude and you will get it. Rob, it's been awesome. I appreciate you coming on. Tell us about anything. Tell us about your website, your podcast. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. You're writing a book, I think, too. Yeah, I'm writing a book and I'll give it to your listeners for free.

And it's going to be really damn good if I say so myself. It's 200 pages on multifamily real estate investing. And if any of you are thinking about it, text me, text the word Rod, my name Rod, to 41411 and I'll put you on the list for it. I'm not going to try to sell you anything.

Don't worry about that. And don't hold me to, I'm hoping I'll have it done within 60 days. It could be 90 days or even a little longer. Those things go, but I will send it to you if you text me. And if you're interested in multifamily real estate investing, please come listen to my podcast.

I just had Grant Cardone on it. Those of you in sales, he's just a fireball. And it's been doing really well and it's Lifetime Cashflow Podcast. And I'd love to have you come listen if you're interested. And Josh, it's been awesome. You've asked some of the best questions I've ever been asked.

So I will tell you, I'm really impressed. I can see why your show is such a success. Thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it. Absolutely, buddy. You take care. Thank you for listening to this episode of Radical Personal Finance. If you're interested in building financial freedom for yourself and your family, please subscribe to the podcast with our free mobile app so you don't miss a single episode.

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