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We never seen this before. Max, the one to watch for a good scream with Cricket. Yeah! Phone plan, streams, and standard definition. Programming subject to change. Fees, terms, and restrictions apply. See cricketwireless.com for details. Today on Radical Personal Finance, I hope to engender in you a sense of appreciation for frankly how easy some of us have it by living in the places that we do.

Welcome to the Radical Personal Finance Podcast. My name is Joshua Sheets and I'm your host. Thank you for being with me today. This is the show where we work hard to help you live a rich life now while also building a plan for financial freedom in 10 years or less.

And today, I want to give you an appreciation of just how great a country, an economy, just a place that is that you live by showing you what it's like in some other places. I'm pretty confident in talking about how great it is that you live just simply because I know that most of you are in Western nations.

Most of the listeners are in the United States. Some are in Canada, in Germany, in the UK. We have listeners in Australia. We have many listeners in other parts of the world as well in developing countries. And frankly, I think there are many opportunities that we can have to improve things in many different places in the world.

But today, I have my friend Bola here from Nigeria. And Bola, welcome to Radical Personal Finance. Thank you, Joshua. So Bola is here visiting me in West Palm Beach right now from Nigeria. And Bola, I've used from our past conversations of you sharing of life on the ground in Nigeria, I've often used your situation, my mental thinking of thinking, "Well, here's what life is like in Nigeria and how would I apply what I teach on Radical Personal Finance in that context." But today, I've invited you on the show and we're going to spend some time just talking about what life is like in Nigeria.

Now, I'm not singling out Nigeria other than the fact that you're sitting here and that's where you're born and raised. And you have a broad exposure to the culture there where you live. And life is different in many places. But I think oftentimes, people who haven't traveled, people who haven't traveled to some parts of Africa, people who haven't traveled to some parts of Central or South America or parts of Asia where life is very different from the Western context, they often have a difficult time relating to people who are in a different situation.

And so I just want to talk about what life is like. So as we begin, though, to help people get a little bit of an appreciation of you and your background, give us just a short introduction of your experience in Nigeria, especially as it relates to your professional background.

You come from the professions. You were formally trained, college educated as an architect. Tell us a little bit about your professional background. Yeah. Thank you, Joshua. Well, professionally, I was trained as an architect. And when I graduated, I was able to get a job. But after some time, the economic situation, I lost my job.

And so, well, there is this survival instinct that comes after that because you've got a family to support and you've got bills to pay. And so as a professional, it gives me an advantage to stand on my own and become, you know, and have a job and have a consultium where I consult for people and practice.

So I got a private practice. But not many people are as fortunate as that. Not many people have a college education and not many people have, you know, profession that they can stand on their own and practice. They have to depend on government. They have to depend on someone to employ them.

And if there is no employment, then the trouble comes. So I will say that I'm one of the very few people who have a professional background and when the job is no longer there, can stand and practice on my own. But then, again, that's dependent on economy. Now, the job came to a time the job was not coming as regularly as it used to be.

And so the survival instinct again comes into play. So it's not about what you're trained to do. It's about looking for areas where you can become an employment of labor yourself, you know, where you can provide job, not really looking for job. So that instinct and that condition actually bring the best out of you.

And you find yourself doing some things you never knew you could do. And everything is geared towards survival. So I was privileged to be able to stand and work a little bit on my own. Then talking about the employment rate, right? Yeah. So let's go there because that was one of the most interesting things that I think that people often don't conceive of is what the employment or unemployment rate is like in some other places.

So what is the unemployment rate in Nigeria? Well, there are two rates. One is official, that is what the government says. But the other one is unofficial, that is what some other people in the private sector actually says. Well, the last count, I guess the government says the unemployment rate is about maybe 17%.

17%. 17%. But unofficially, some people put it at something like 75, 80%. So how do you reconcile that? There's a bit of a difference between those two numbers. I tell you. Now, this is my little -- probably this might shed a little more light. Just around me, I have got people in my immediate environment, brothers, friends, relatives.

But I can tell you that out of 10 people, maybe 9 of them are not employed. Is it because they just don't want a job? Well -- And the reason I'm kind of baiting you here, but if out of 10 people -- and first, you're talking about 10 working-age men.

Right. We're not talking about the young, the elderly. We're not talking about people who are on kind of the margins. You're talking about normal, able-bodied people. Of those men, 9 of the 10 aren't working. Let me take it a little bit further. These are the type of people I'm talking about, people with college degrees within the age of maybe 21 and probably 45, able-bodied, qualified, and they have family to support, and they're looking for employment.

Let me give you a background story. Recently -- you can verify this in the news. You can just Google it. The Nigerian government wants to employ people in the police sector, and they wanted to employ about 10,000 average, and over a million -- they got over a million applications.

Wow. Over a million applications. Wow. And these people, out of the million people, there are people who are overqualified. I mean, they got multiple master's degrees, so they have no business. It's not because they want to do it, but they're just looking for employment, and that's why they're applying.

But the government only needs like 10,000 people, and now they have over a million. So what happens? It tells you that the number of people actively looking for employment. And the reason is that the police department is not a place anybody might desire to work with, to work for.

So why would a million people apply for a job they really don't want to? It means it gets to a place of frustration. They're just looking for something to do. So these are able-bodied, college graduates, people with everything, just looking for jobs. And so that's -- your experience is so shocking to those of us in the U.S.

American context, because we look around, and frankly, in the United States, for anybody who wants to work, there is work out there of some kind at some price. Right. That's the contrast. And that's the contrast. We complain a lot about the unemployment rate in the United States, but when you actually dig into it, there are some people who can't work, and there are many people who are unemployed because they can't find work that they deem is suitable to them.

But for those who are willing to adjust and retrain, or for those who are willing to take half the money they were making or a fourth of the money, there is work at some price of some kind available for anybody who wants to work. When you take that to a context like you, I mean, it boggles my mind of even where to start, because how do you run a family?

How do you run a country? How do you run a city where nine out of ten people who want to work can't even find even the most basic of work? Yeah, that's a very interesting question, and it bothers you. I mean, it's staggering, right? Right, yeah. When I come -- And the reason it's staggering, in times past when you tell me that, I just flat out didn't believe you.

And that's why I started with saying, like, by clarifying your background, because I know my audience is going to have the same belief. They're not going to believe you, because the government statistics, like you said, oh, 17%. That's the official number. But that's why I said, you're not a kook.

You come from a professional background. You have a college degree. You're involved on the ground. I didn't pick you up off some back alley as some unknowledgeable person. So that's why it's so staggering, because it's so different. We can't even conceive of how to operate in that environment. All right, let me tell you a little bit more.

I know of someone who has at least multiple degrees and working for the government. And recently the government could not pay the salary, and they have to -- I mean, for the past five, six months, the government has not been able to pay salary. But the people are stuck there.

They look for jobs, but they cannot get a better job. So the fear is that -- the question you might want to ask is that, what are you doing there? Why don't you quit the job and go get another? But they can't, because there's no job out there. So these are people who are also well-read and well-educated, and they are good at what they do.

But, you know, it's just not there. Another statistics that might interest you is the statistics of the immigration department in Nigeria, who also wants to bring people into employment. And the number of people that applied for the job is also staggering. And it's even more -- I mean, they want to employ, like, less than 10 percent.

And there's no way they can do that, which means that the number of people who are looking for jobs is desperate. And I'm not talking of those who can, but they might not. I mean, desperately looking for jobs is staggering. So when I come to the U.S., I am surprised when people complain, "Oh, there's no job.

The unemployment rate is 7 percent. I don't know how -- what's the percent in Florida? Seven percent?" -It's in, like, the -- I can't -- five to seven percent type of thing, yeah. -Now, when I hear people complain, I shake my head, and I just wish they knew what happened in other places.

-Well, so I don't want to pass over what you just said, lest the audience missed it. You said that a highly qualified person in your life, highly qualified, college-educated, has a job with the government, has been working at the job of the government for how long, how many years?

-15. -15 years, okay, is working for the government. And this entire year -- so six months now -- this entire year has been going to work five days a week? -Five days a week. -Five days a week, and has not received a single paycheck. -No. This year, no paycheck yet.

-And, Sabola, this is what's so astounding, because in the United States, we have -- what was it, a year, a couple years ago, the famed government shutdown, where the Congress couldn't come to a budget agreement, and so they started furloughing non-essential employees. And everyone was just raising a ruckus over people not being expected to go to work and not have a paycheck, but just simply being told, "Stay home for a week." And I don't know what actually happened.

My guess is that the pay was all made up in advance, and people were raising a ruckus over it. -But what you've just -- what you describe is inconceivable to the majority of my listening audience of what to do. Why can't the government pay the employee? -Well, that's a long story.

Economic -- Nigeria is currently passing through some economic challenges, because the oil prices is falling all over the world, and you know that Nigeria is heavily dependent on oil. And so the prices of oil falls, and most of the states are bankrupt, and there's a bailout from the federal government to most of these states, but it's still not -- states are not able to still meet the obligation towards the workers.

So -- and that's very -- and that's six months. Some people have not been paid for more than that, and they don't have a choice. They still have to continue going to work. Hopefully -- -But someday the checks will come. -Hopefully. One day the check will come. So but what if it doesn't come?

-Right, because there's people waiting in the wings who would love to have that job. They're not getting paid for doing nothing, so they might as well not get paid for doing something in hopes that someday they'll be able to have that job. So there's a fear to give up the job in case there's no opportunity.

-Right, that's a great fear. And recently some people were offered to pay half of the salary of the current month if they are able to forget about the past month. -Right, so the deal is, okay, the government offers me -- if I'm the employee, they offer, okay, we'll give you half of your June salary if you acknowledge that you're not going to receive any payment from January through May.

-I know that's crazy and mind-boggling, but it happens. And that's just the situation. So when somebody comes to the U.S. and you hear people complain about this or that, you know, the best -- for me, the best thing I do is I just keep my mouth shut because I can't say anything.

It sounds crazy, right? -Right, and so, again, just to reiterate, you're near Lagos, and Lagos is a huge city. You're right in kind of the capital area. We're not talking about a rural province out in the middle of the jungle somewhere. We're talking about central Lagos, the capital of Nigeria.

-Lagos is a mega city and has about 18 to 20 million people. So it's really a mega city. -Talk to me about the system of financing. So one of the things that's been interesting to me in past conversations with you is where you've talked to me about how you build a house.

So tell me about the credit markets, and if I were a Nigerian citizen and I wanted to build a house, how does that work? Do I go get a mortgage? -Well, it's interesting. Well, officially, there's a mortgage, but I don't think anybody's crazy enough to go to mortgage to get a loan to build his house because it really doesn't work.

Recently, there is an improvement in the mortgage system because the bank rate--I don't know what the bank rate is here, but over there, if I'm not mistaken, the bank rate is about 40%. -Four zero, 40%. -Yes. So what do you want to do with that? So if you would like to build your house, it has to be--everything is in cash.

You cannot really access a loan from the bank because of the rate because the rate is crazy. Well, some people do have access to loans and mortgage officially, but I really have not seen anyone in the past. It's getting better now, but I've really not seen anyone in the past who was able to access that effectively.

So basically, it's a cash economy. There's no credit, as it were. You don't want to go to bank for credit because the rate is high and the--I don't know their terms, but everything there, it's almost unaccessible. So when I was building a house, you have to buy land for yourself and build a house.

It's interesting. You buy a little here, a little there, probably buy 100 blocks and employ some artisans, bricklayers and carpenters to do as much as they can do at a point in time. And when you're done with that cash, you can wait for another year or maybe two years more or maybe three years, and you pick it up from where you stopped.

And gradually, you are able to complete your house. So the completion of your house is at your own pace. It's at your own financial muscle, how much money you can come up with. And that money probably has to do with maybe financing but not necessarily from the bank. One interesting thing, however, is this.

There is something we call the cooperative. I don't know if it's here in the U.S. The cooperative system is a system where you save a certain amount of money from your salary every month, and at every point in time, you can access three times of the money you have.

You can access three times of the money you have saved in that cooperative. And so you can use it basically for anything you want to do, and you can pay it back in installment of 10 months to one year. And the rate, the lending rate, is just 1% to 2%.

So there are cooperative societies that you can approach, but that you have to be a corporate worker or you have to be a government worker so that it's deducted from your salary from source. So that really helps a lot of people to access funds, to access finances in building their houses.

In that system, when you're accessing that money, are you limited to doing that on a certain frequency? What do you mean? So what I'm comparing it to, the Haitians have a system, I think in Creole they call it the "sol." And what their system is, and I think there are similar systems in many places, is it's basically very hard to accumulate large amounts of capital at one time in a cash economy.

And so we get together, and you and me and 10 of our friends, for a total of 12 people, we all commit that every month we're going to pay in $100 to-- again, I only know the Haitian word for it, the "sol." We're going to pay $100, and then one month I'm going to get the full $1,200.

So I put in $100 in January, but in January you get the $1,200. And then in February I put it in, and we go around in a ring until the full thing is completed. It allows you to have $1,200 in your hand all at one time. So that's the system where there's no interest, everyone is cooperating together, but it allows somebody in a cash economy to come up with $1,200, which they can use to actually move something and make something big dramatically happen, when oftentimes they would have a very difficult time saving the $1,200 over a year themselves.

Yes, it's actually interesting. We also have it, and we call it a "susu." A susu. Right, so it's almost similar to what you said, they call it back there in--is it Asia? Haiti. Haiti, okay. So yeah, and interestingly, I'm also involved in it. Even right now I'm involved in it.

But that's one of the only ways you can have access to cash. But right now, the other one that I just described seems to be overtaking that, in the sense that, just like you have described, 10 of us contribute like $100, and at the end of the 10th month, somebody gets the old buck.

And then it rotates until everybody gets. People do that, but the advantage, people say, of the previous one is that you can-- if you contribute like maybe $1,000, you have access to $3,000 or even $4,000. So it gives you much more, and you can pay with a minimal interest rate.

But the two that I know of, those two things, the one you mentioned, which is also a susu, in my country, and the cooperative, are the major ways people access funds for major projects like building a house or something more than that. The banking industry, you probably might want to ask that, "Okay, then, so what is the bank doing?" I don't know.

- Well, they're doing exactly what-- the bankers are doing exactly what they do in the United States, making the bankers rich. In the U.S., we have a little bit more of an egalitarian service-based system. But is Nigeria like-- I've never been to Nigeria, but in many countries I've traveled in, you have just the elite of the society, which are absurdly wealthy.

And then you have the majority of the society, which is hand-to-mouth, and you have a very, very small middle class, which is comfortable. Is that how it is in Nigeria? - Well, I wish-- I wish that's how it is. But as far as I'm concerned, there doesn't seem to be the middle class.

It seems that the middle class is completely destroyed, so you have the super-rich and the super-poor. So that basically seems to be the order. - And so the banks are involved with financing the new oil field and writing a contract for $2 billion to develop the oil field. And then there are some business people that are involved in that.

And yes, there are some jobs that are coming there, but primarily the banks are set to serve the government interests and the interests of the few elite business owners that are running the country. - Right. Another problem that I see that the country has is that it's a largely oil-dependent country.

So everybody is looking forward to the oil. And the banks are-- the banks services the government. The services, oil facilities, international, multinational companies who employ people. And so they really do not have any, let me say, interest in average people because they don't have anything anyway, and they're not likely to make money from them.

So they make money from the government, and they make money from the multinational company who comes to prospect for oil, and that's where the banks make their money. And if you go to Nigeria, you'll see-- you'll be amazed at the structures and so many things there. It's like a contrast.

You're looking at a country that you think is poor, but you see there's no reconciliation because you see people who are super rich, you know, have yachts and have, you know, super--and have a lot of things. So you cannot actually reconcile them with the people who are down below the line.

So the bank actually services the government, the government project, a multinational project, and everything that relates to oil and big money, not for an average people. Tell me about the-- I just blanked on what I was going to ask you about. Prices. Tell me about prices. When you--so in a country like you're describing, the money is tight, people are unemployed.

The obvious implication of that is that prices are cheap. So everything is cheap. So if I want to get deals on things, I should come to Nigeria, right? Well-- Hopefully the audience heard the sarcastic tone of voice. Go ahead. Tell us about prices, Bola. Well, I think the prices are actually relative.

For instance, it will probably take you more-- you'll probably spend more money for food in Nigeria than you will spend in the U.S. So in that comparison, I don't know if things are cheaper in Nigeria than here. If you ask me, most of the things that they buy in Nigeria except the local things, things bought from the U.S.

And those who buys it from the U.S., they take it home in order to make profit. So if I buy something for, like, $10 here, when I get back home, I'd like to have maybe $2 more for my own profit. So things are, like, a little bit more expensive because Nigeria is largely import-dependent.

So most of the things used there are actually imported, and so things are expensive. However, there are some other things that you probably might find to be very cheap, and you can guess the first one. You can guess. - Labor. - Labor. You're right. Labor is very cheap. You'll be surprised and amazed how much people receive as wages and salary at the end of the month, despite maybe their college graduates, and they have degrees and this, especially from the government.

The labor is very cheap, so you have cheap labor, and you want to use the money for cheap labor to buy expensive things, and that's where the problem comes from because you have cheap labor, the money is small, but you're using small money to buy things that are expensive, and that's what determines the standard of living.

So people's standard of living is actually cut down because they cannot afford many things they wished ordinarily that they're able to afford. - And so this is what is adjusting and changing things so desperately. So with your specific situation, your work as an architect was many years ago, and for various reasons, you haven't practiced as an architect in 20 years?

- I actually stopped active practice in about maybe eight years ago. - Eight years, okay. - Right. - So in the last eight years, you've done various things. At the moment, you are working to build a business as a publishing expert, helping people digitally publish their books. So you've been doing a lot of work on Fiverr, and then you're trying to establish your own brand outside of Fiverr, and you're trying to leverage the internet.

And so here's what's so powerful about the technological transformation that's happening is someone like you, an expert in one field, is now looking to the internet and saying, "How can I take my labor market, "and instead of trying to work in a local market "where nobody has any money to pay me, "how can I take and develop a skill set that's valuable "to somebody on the other side of the world "that's a digital product "that I can work from my house in Lagos "and work with somebody on the other side of the world?" And to you, if you can develop, and you've been having a good number of jobs on Fiverr, now if you can continue to develop the higher service and higher profit margin digital business, that'll allow you to work for cheaper than somebody in another place, but yet still the benefit of it, hopefully, if we can continue to get you more clients, the benefit of that is going to be much higher to you where you'll be able to get that income to support yourself more readily.

And so this is what I think so many US Americans and other Western people are blind to, is they think that, "Well, we just have this economy "and this competitive advantage that's going to continue." If you do your job at a computer, if you spend most of your workday at a computer, there is almost nothing in your work that can't be sent to the other side of the world.

If you make your living as a plumber fixing things, okay, you're going to have a good employment future. But if you make your living at a computer, sitting at a computer desk, you are now in competition with people all around the world, including people that are much smarter than you, my listening audience, people that are much smarter than you who are living next door to Bola and who are desperate for an opportunity.

And Bola, the rates, I mean, you have poured your heart and soul into some of the work that you've done at Fiverr because it's the best opportunity that you have and you're willing to deliver that value there. And so what's going to happen in the future, I mean, it's largely unknown, but the competition is coming in.

And I warn you, my listening audience, if you make your living at a computer, you are now in competition with the people living in circumstances like Bola. And to employers, for me as an employer, I have no interest in hiring employees in the United States. When I can hire, my work is digital.

If I can hire somebody to do my work from another country, I have no interest in hiring the US employee because I have to deal with the US laws, I have to deal with the US taxes, I have to deal with the US costs. Everything is expensive. Everything is overregulated.

I'd much rather work with somebody in Nigeria who can do the work better, who can do the work cheaper. It's just a win-win. And that's the future challenge for both US Americans and the future challenge and opportunity for people living in Nigeria and countries all around the world. - Yes, I agree with you.

You are in competition with people who can take a little bit less to get the cash they desperately need. When I couldn't function again as an architect, and so I had to look-- there's an ad that says necessity is the mother of invention. So I looked to the internet and online what I could get.

The market is huge. And so I found this publishing thing, and I did some training, and I am willing to take a little bit less from my American counterpart in order to get a little cash because that cash means a lot to me back home when I change it to the local currency.

It's able to keep me going for a while. And that's basically what is happening in many third-world countries who have access to the internet. So their labor is cheap, and their expertise is there because they know they are competing with many people from across the globe, and the employers, online employers, are looking for nothing but the best.

So it puts a moral burden on me to become the best I can ever be in what I'm doing. And that sets me in a stiff competition with people from all over the world. And to me, it's a good deal. - Right, and the expertise is there because the training is there.

And this is where, on Radical Personal Finance, I talk a lot about schooling and the importance of schooling and the unimportance of schooling and all of these things. But the point that I want to point out, if anybody thinks that schooling is preparation for the work life, it's not because in something like you're doing, let's use your example, publishing, the expertise and the education that you need is something that is freely distributed over the internet.

- That's right. - There's nothing that can't be taught through the computer connection. And all of the work can be done through a computer connection. Well, in a world like that, there's no need to sit in a classroom, and the number of instructions and the students are there. It's just, it opens things up.

So you can't think that somehow sitting in a fancy classroom is gonna help you to gain the skills any better than Bola sitting at his internet connection in Nigeria, teaching himself, downloading the software, teaching himself the skills, working for cheap while he's trying to develop his clients and build out the higher service end of the business.

And this is a, I mean, we have no idea where this is gonna go over the coming decades, but it's just getting started. And the life, the world that we live in is gonna be dramatically affected. Bola, tell me about the actual, currently your actual living conditions in the sense that you have a house, you've built a house, it's a comfortable house.

You're not living on the streets in a cardboard box like some people are. But even so, tell me about the electricity, the internet connection, those types of services, how reliable they are, and what you have to deal with on a daily basis. Well, generally, as I told you, the country just transitioned from a previous government to a newer government, and there's much hope that things are going to get a little bit better.

But right now, the energy, the electricity, for instance, it's very, I can describe it as very epileptic. (laughing) And that's the best condition, it's very epileptic in the sense that you're thankful many times if you have electricity for like two, three hours a day. I mean, you must be living in a good area to have electricity two hours a day.

It means you're living in a fairly good area. But then, as I said, necessity is the mother of invention. There are people who have electricity, who generate electricity through inverter and some other, maybe solar. So you can actually make yourself as comfortable as you can by getting these facilities yourself and not depend on the government.

When I built my house, for instance, there was no road leading to my house. There's no water system, no electricity, no electricity there, nothing. So I had to, I was the road contractor to my house. I had to dig a well, a borehole to be able to bring water, and I had overhead tank, and a pumping machine where I pumped the water.

So I make water available, and I had generator. And I've had like five generators the last three years. And sometimes I operate like three in a day. If gas finishes in one, I switch to the other. And if that one finishes, I switch to the other. If one has a problem, I switch to the fourth one, and I have the fifth one as a back-off.

And so the idea is that you can actually generate electricity yourself without waiting on the government. That comes with a cost. And the same with internet. Recently, there is an upsurge of internet penetration in Africa generally. And you know Nigeria with a very huge population of about 170 million people.

So there's internet penetration, broadband, and the rest. But then it's not cheap. So basically, the idea is this. You have everything but at a cost. So if you're willing to pay the cost, you can get fairly almost-- you can have access to almost anything that you want. But the difference is this.

What the government do for people in America or some other countries is individual. They does it for themselves in a country like Nigeria. So while you complain about road, you complain about this, you complain about that, the mentality of an average Nigerian is fixed. They know that that is not the government prerogative.

An average Nigerian believes that the only thing the government does is to maybe put money in their private pocket. And so you got to do everything yourself, basically. So electricity, water, road, and internet is basically your responsibility. It's not the government responsibility. It's not the responsibility of anybody. It's your responsibility.

And that's survival instinct. So once you have that instinct, it propels you to look for how there's a problem that it makes you to look for solution. So an average person is smart, smart enough to make a living. So if you put an American and probably someone from the third world in a difficult situation, one will maybe probably survive more than the other because there has been experience in that regard over the years, and there's a proven skill and development that has led to overcoming such challenge.

Right, right. That's why, I mean, you bring-- I've got a lot of issues with the United States, things I wish were different, but I don't know of a better place to build wealth and to live a comfortable life in the world than the United States. And so that's why so many people, immigrants, come here with the perspective and experience, some like you've said, some different experiences.

And you look at the opportunities here in the U.S., you're telling me that I can get an apartment in the United States, in any town in the United States, for under $1,000. I can live and I can stay there, whether it's me and my family. I can find a place to live for under $1,000 a month, and there's electricity 24 hours a day, and there's water that I can drink out of the tap 24 hours a day.

And you're telling me that I don't have to worry about my security system. And I mean, the theft--I thought when you said you had five generators, I thought you were going to say five generators have been stolen in the last three years. Because you told me stories in the past about how often-- I mean, how often have you been robbed in the last decade?

Oh, well, maybe I've lost count. But that's not a problem. And by lost count, you mean, like, guess? Um, well, maybe like--I don't want to scare you. I'm not going to be scared. Trust me, I'm coming to visit you no matter what. I'm not--I'm hard to scare. But, you know-- I want to know, actually, because-- So one of the reasons why I'm having this conversation, just to tell you why I'm asking so many direct questions, is I think that in the United States, we are soft and fat and weak.

And very few people know how-- many U.S. Americans would die in the life that you live every day. They wouldn't know what to do. So the problem is that things can change. We've had a pretty good boom time here in the United States for the last few years. There have been many aspects that have been tough.

But when we go into another recession, it's very possible that it could be very difficult. Now, for us, that very difficult might mean going from 7% unemployment to 20% unemployment, or 10%, or 15%. It's not going to be going from 7% to 70% unemployment. But still, that will have a dramatic impact.

And so people in that situation, they'll have to cut back on the amount of meat they're buying, and they'll have to cut back on the cell phone plan, and they'll have to cut back here, and they'll think, "I'm having a difficult life." Meanwhile, for me, I'm thinking--yes, I have to cut back-- but I'm thinking of my friend Bola in Nigeria having been robbed, and having to face all of that, and having been robbed how many times in the last decade or last few years?

Conservatively, maybe like six times. Okay. And these robberies, people are coming in, armed intruders. Well, it depends. There are people who are--I've just described the situation. Imagine a man who has graduated from the university and has maybe like a master's degree. Brilliant, but there's no employment. He's got mouths to feed.

And you know our system is cultural. Our cultural system is very communal. So you've got your parents living with you, your parents-in-law, your aunt, and your uncle, and your niece, and your nephew, and you're jobless. And so there's a push. It gets to a time. And you see someone who is more educated than--whom you are more educated than, and you have more opportunities than, you're smarter than him, you're everything.

But somehow it makes its way into the government. And when it gets to the government, the only thing it does is--it has a lot of-- suddenly it becomes very rich for doing nothing. And so there's this anger in you that, "What is this?" So you see most of the robberies is transferred aggression of people who are just looking for livelihood or who wants to take away--who want to take from you.

And so if you have a little money, if you're a little bit comfortable, they believe you're a part of the people who are super rich, and you're not thinking about them. So what they want to do is to dispossess you, not really--it's just not really killing, as it were.

It's just to take a little from what you have, and they know you're not going to give them just like that, except they come in an armed way and they come to steal. So that's what is responsible for a lot of robberies, theft, and stealing. And I'm sure that an average American has heard a lot of scams and things like that.

So that's what is responsible for things like that, because many are looking for livelihood. Right, right. Yeah, our conversation hopefully gives a little bit of context to all the Nigerian email scams, which, I tell you, I feel for you, being a Nigerian, an honest Nigerian living in that, and the stigma that you have to face with all the email scams, it's a very difficult situation.

So Bola, if you were looking at people in--you're here in West Palm Beach with us, and if you're looking at people who live in our kind of context, and you're trying to give some practical advice for how to succeed financially, given the abundance of opportunity that we have from your perspective, when you're looking at it, what kind of practical advice would you give to somebody here in the United States to say--recognize--what practical advice would you give to succeed financially?

Well, first, I will say that there's supposed to be a paradigm shift. There's supposed to be a different mentality in the sense that it's about not what you can get, it's what you can give and what you can do. And the environment is conducive enough. Good roads, I mean, security, I mean, not perfect, but at least it's better.

You got almost everything working. And maybe the reason why an average people that lives in a comfortable environment, they are too comfortable, they can't think. And if you can't think, you start to sink. Somebody said that. They say if you don't think, you sink. So because trouble or struggle or problem actually is the measurement that determines your manhood, how man you are because you are able to think out of the box.

So my advice is going to be that look at the opportunities all around you. Most of the time when I'm here, there are so many opportunities on the Internet. And I just wonder why people are blind or why are they not taking the opportunities, even from flying, from--each time I come around, I see that you can actually buy and sell because there's no job back in my country.

Everybody is a trader. So when I come here, I come with the intention to buy things, and I go back home to sell and make a little profit. Even while I'm here, I want to go to Amazon and buy something for $5, sell it for $6, and if I sell like 50 of them, I got $50.

And those are the things, the proactive way that--because the environment is so conducive. All you need to do is just to look and look for where there is need and service the need. Where there is need, people are looking for solution. And that's what brought me to the publishing business online.

I discovered that e-book is always--is the next big thing. Millions of e-books are published every day. So how can I be part of it? Well, I didn't know anything about e-book, but I trained myself. I learned everything online, free of charge, of course. I learned everything, how to do this and how to do that.

Then I became proficient enough, and I started off. So my advice is to look for needs and service the needs around you. And the Internet is not just for Facebook. The Internet is not-- It's not? It's not just for Twitter. It's not for that. You see, I enjoy Wi-Fi here while in the U.S.

To use a Wi-Fi back home costs a lot. I mean, it costs a lot. You cannot imagine. But you have it in your home, and it is sitting there doing nothing. It's not bringing any little more income for you. So what is your Wi-Fi doing? You cannot connect to the Internet, learn some trade, learn some things.

And you can use it to better yourself, not only to enjoy yourself. I think the average mentality of an American is enjoyment. Everything is in abundance. There is no, "Well, I got to do this." And the best thing we can do is call the government, and the government comes right away and solves the problem.

So we must be proactive to our needs, not depending. I think we must get out of the mentality of dependence, depending on government. "After all, I pay my tax." Well, that's a good thing. But then we can look for opportunities all around us, in our immediate environment. There are people who have a need of something.

Look for it. When I go to the park, when I was coming, the last time I was coming, I bought some African dresses, and I said, "Okay, if I go to Key West, or if I go to a park, or if I go to a beach, I probably might want to sell these for so much.

Maybe if I make $10 from each of them, and I have like 10, that's $100 for me, and that's extra." So I think the mentality is to look towards how to have more, and having more is dependent on servicing the need of somebody or a community around you. When we have that mentality, that is when we can actively look for how that can be possible.

And you will discover that there are a thousand and one ways how that can be possible. There are people on YouTube who already gave you the tutorial of what to do. So all you need to do is just to watch it and do what they do, and you become an overnight professional.

So those are my thoughts. - That's good stuff, Vola. That's good stuff. Awesome. Well, tell us about, because there may be people in my audience who can use your publishing services, and I want to give you an opportunity to tell them about it. Tell us the story of how you've gotten into it and kind of what you've learned so far, because I know it's been kind of partially successful, but it's also been a lot of work.

So you started on Fiverr, and you studied a little bit about how to format. Tell us the services that you've been doing, what's worked really well, what hasn't worked. - Okay. I started actually because I threw the quest to publish a book. - You were publishing a book that you had written.

- Yes. I wrote a book, and I was thinking if I publish this book, I probably might get some money. The mentality is about survival. Okay, I have a book. If I publish, maybe I'll be able to get some income from it. And I discovered that there is print on demand.

I was tired. I've published a book in the past, and I've got a stack in my room, about 1,000 books, and each time I look at it, I kick it and bring it down. And I don't want something like that. And I read that you can actually publish your book print on demand.

That is, I don't have to print 1,000. Just if anybody needs a book at a time, they print the book, and they send it to me. I say, "Wow, that's a great opportunity." So I contacted somebody online, "Oh, can you help me prepare this book for print on demand publishing?" And they say, "Yes, we can." And he gives me the bill, and I couldn't afford the bill.

I said, "What do you mean? I live in Nigeria. I don't make dollars." And the bill was in dollars. And I went to the publishing place, and I saw you can do this yourself. You can actually do it yourself. I said, "Wow, that's interesting." Then I read through. I downloaded and printed.

The book is maybe a couple of hundred pages. I read through, and I wasn't very proficient in the use of some programs in the computer, but I was ready to learn if it will save me an extra buck. Anyway, so I started learning. And I discovered that--so I did it, and I was very afraid, "Oh, maybe if I send it to the publishing house, they're going to throw it back at me and say, 'This is a junk.

What do you mean?'" And I've read a lot of stories of people who have been rejected by this publishing company, and they are frustrated. Anyway, when I sent it to this publishing house, they sent it back to me maybe a few hours later, and they said, "Congratulations." I said, "For what?" They said, "Your book is successful." I said, "How can it be successful?

I've read a lot of people, their frustration, how they have tried it several times, 10 times, 20 times. At the end of the day, they have to give it up and look for someone to do it for them." And here I was, I did it once, and that was it.

That was an encouragement. I said, "If I can do this, then what about these people who are already frustrated? Maybe I can meet their needs." Okay, so I pulled it off. I said, "Maybe that was a one-time mistake," because I had to do some editorial there. When I tried it again, and I heard the same thing, "Congratulations," I said, "Okay, which means I gain enough proficiency." Then I spoke to someone right there on the platform.

I said, "Maybe I can help you." So I did it for him, and he thanked me, and that was for free. It went through at once. I did it for another. It went through at once. I said, "Okay, this is time for me to monetize my skill." So I looked for online, and I got this Fiverr.

You can actually walk there, and everything is $5, and you don't have to worry about the payment structure or things like that because they have all this payment thing done, and that's what I needed. So I registered, and I did my first job, and it was successful. I did my second, successful.

I got reviews, and they're saying, "Oh, this guy is good." That kind of encouraged me to do more. Since then, I've been working, and basically what I do is to format into print on demand and e-book, format into different formats like Amazon, Barnes & Noble, e-book, and iKobo, and the rest of them.

So they have different formats. Before you can publish your book as an e-book, you have to pass through this stage because it requires some codings, little programming stuff, which I learned during the process of my own. So then more jobs were coming in, and I discovered that I didn't have skill in some again, so I went back online, learned.

For instance, an e-book was primarily made for text, but some people have images in their books. They have charts, and some other pictures and things like that, which is very difficult to do, and I discovered that that was a hindrance for me. Most people say, "Oh, do you do children's books?" "No." "Oh, do you do coloring books?" "No." "Do you do images?

I have 20 images in my book." "No." I say, "Oh, enough of no." So I learned it, and I became proficient enough in it. So I put another thing out right there on Fiverr. I do this, I do that, and jobs keep coming in, coming in, although in trickles, but it's better than nothing.

Right, right. You're up to like 200? You said 200 reviews on Fiverr? I have about 240 reviews right now on Fiverr. That's great. Basically what I do is just publishing for e-book and print book on POD. That's great. Smash Word, Create Space, Lulu, and the rest. Any type of book, that's what I do.

What's your Fiverr username? My Fiverr username is I-P-R-I-E-S-T, iPriest. iPriest. I know that's kind of funny. I'll link to your Fiverr profile in the show notes, and then your website. I know we're working on doing some new marketing stuff to help you with your website. What's the website also that you're using for your business?

I'm using Cryout Publishing right now. CryoutPublishing.com. Right. Awesome. Hopefully, if any of my audience--I can vouch for Bola and his character. If anybody wants to work with somebody, you've heard his story. But I've known Bola--how long have we known each other? Seven years, eight years, something like that? 2008.

Eight years. We've known each other eight years, so I can vouch for his honesty and integrity and usefulness. Again, you had that Nigeria thing. We were talking on Saturday about discrimination. I bought a fair share. Yeah, being from Nigeria and how challenging it is. You tell someone, "Hey, I'm a Nigerian," all of a sudden, to those of us who have many emails from our rich Nigerian uncle who died.

It's very, very challenging. I know. Very, very challenging. But I can vouch for your character and for your work. So if any of my audience knows or needs those services or knows of anybody who needs those services-- I mean, the transition--the thing about Fiverr, just as a business plan, has been Fiverr has been a great place for you to learn.

You've been paid a little bit of money to learn. Well, now with those skills, you've got to transition from the entry-level work to the more advanced work. And that's where we build on the service model, where instead of working on the cut-rate pricing, you start to build out a client base of people who value reliability and quality and who are willing to pay more.

And they get it cheaper than somebody sitting in New York City because of the advantage. Right. But they don't have to worry about the quality of constantly going to another $5 gig on Fiverr. So that's the idea. Well, Bola, thank you for coming on Radical Personal Finance. My pleasure.

It's been fun. And I hope that you and the audience--I hope you can take some of these ideas today and consider the benefits of where you live. I mean, you hear Bola talk about something as simple as Wi-Fi. Most of you listening to this show--we have some listeners in Africa, we have some listeners in Asia and places where Wi-Fi costs a little bit more.

But most of you listening to this show can get a free Internet connection anywhere you go. Many of us have so much data on our cell phone plans we don't even bother to look for Wi-Fi. We just stream it on our data. But when you think about the resources and the normal daily things that you have in your life and you look at them as benefits and you think, "What can I do with what I have?" It can open up your doors.

It can open up your eyes. And I encourage you, if you're well-employed and you're happily employed, great. You don't necessarily have to go and say, "I've got to"--you don't have to come from a place of desperation and think, "How do I go and get more jobs?" But one thing that you can do is you can think to yourself, "What are some different ideas, some different ways that if I could use some of these resources I have to make more money?" What are ways--if you look around at the resources in your life, whether it's a roof over your head and you think, "What are some ways that I could use my house to make money?" Whether it's a driveway in front of your house, "What are some ways I could use my driveway to make money?" We don't do this much in the U.S., but in much of the world, if you have a driveway, there's going to be a business operating out of it.

And so whether you do that--one of my neighbors has a garage sale every month, one Saturday a week. They turn their driveway into a profit-making enterprise. They keep a stack of tables around the side of their house. I don't know where they get the cheap stuff, but they buy the stuff for cheap and they sell it in a garage sale.

Or maybe you grow plants in the backyard and you sell mango trees in your front driveway. Look at the resources that you have and think, "How can I turn these resources from dead, nonproductive things into useful, productive things?" Because that's the essence of capitalism. Thank you all so much for listening to the show.

If you'd like to support me--and this is what I'm trying to do, is provide you the resources. If you'd like to support me and the work that I do, consider becoming a patron of the show, radicalpersonalfinance.com/patron. radicalpersonalfinance.com/patron radicalpersonalfinance.com