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That's FijiAirways.com. From here to happy. Flying direct with Fiji Airways. You know that old debate that comes into play when we talk about the value of mortgages, the whole thing of, "Well, if you have interest on a mortgage, it's not fully deductible. It's just a deduction. It's not a credit." You know that argument?

Well, let's add some fuel to the fire today by busting that one just a little bit. Can't do it completely. But today, let's talk about how you can actually get a full tax credit for some of your mortgage interest. Welcome to the Radical Personal Finance Podcast. My name is Joshua Sheets and I'm your host.

Thank you for being with me today. Today we talk about mortgage credit certificates. You know, I recently sold my house and this was one of the ones that really frustrated me. It frustrated me that I never found out about this one. It cost me a couple thousand bucks a year.

So if you own a house, prepare to be frustrated. But if you don't own a house, pay attention to today's show and I may be able to save you a couple thousand bucks a year. So glad that you are here with me on Radical Personal Finance. I try to keep the show interesting and engaging on a daily basis.

So I try very hard to – well, I try to keep the content varied. And I've slacked a little bit on the technical content in the past few weeks. You'll have to forgive me for that. It's just I haven't been able to get it done. It's coming back. Today we're going to dip our toes into the technical content by talking about mortgage credit certificates.

Now if you're one of those who gets intimidated by the discussion of technical financial planning content, don't worry. The way I'm going to do this show is first I'm going to lay out for you the benefit of what a mortgage credit certificate is. Basically it's a straight tax – I can do this in two sentences.

A mortgage credit certificate is a straight tax credit where a certain amount of your mortgage interest up to 2,000 bucks is directly, directly reducing your income tax liability. So what you can do is instead of sending the US federal government $2,000, up to $2,000, you can just simply send that to your mortgage company in interest.

That's why I led with my little teaser talking about how this is actually a direct mortgage credit. It's not a deduction. It's not subject to whatever your current tax rate is. It's an actual mortgage credit. And it's one of the coolest programs that I never found out about before buying a house.

So I'm going to give you – what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you up front the big picture of what it is like I just did. I'm going to tell you in today's show some of the major details and then for those of you who are very detail-oriented, I'll give you some of the little specifics and restrictions that you might need to know.

So that's the course of today's show. So I always try to give a little bit of financial value in my show and today it could be $2,000 of savings on your taxes, which to give you some incentive and some reason to do that, let's do some quick math. I always like to make things relevant.

And here's what I want you to know. When you're paying attention – so key tip number one, when you take a monthly number or an annual number of savings, always take that and immediately convert it into your head of how much money you would be able to avoid saving if you were able to reduce that expense.

So what I'm going to do is since I'm going to save you up to $2,000 today of tax savings, let's multiply 2,000 times 25. This is a little inverse trick of the 4% rule. So we take any kind of annual expenditure, we multiply it by 25 and that's how much money we would need in financial independence to cover that income.

So $2,000 times 25 equals $50,000. And so with that $50,000, I'm going to save you – you don't have to save – I'm going to save it to you in that you don't have to save the money to be financially independent. So real financial value here. Before I get to all the details to explain how this works and how you can apply this to your life, I want to take care of sponsors.

Two sponsors today. Number one is Paladin Registry. Paladin Registry is my solution that I went out and found for you guys when you were asking me, "Joshua, how do you find a great financial advisor?" It's tough to find a great financial advisor. The show I almost did today was my advice to a new widow or to a widow about how to find a good financial advisor.

I had this in a personal phone call with a family member of mine who their husband had passed away several years ago and they called me up and were asking me, "How do I find a good financial advisor?" Well, I'll do that show maybe tomorrow. Who knows? But I'll do that show for you, some of the tips that I gave her about how to actually work with a financial advisor.

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TradeKing.com/radical. TradeKing.com/radical. All right, mortgage credit certificates. Let's repeat again what the value is of a mortgage credit certificate. First you should know that the mortgage credit certificate program is state specific. So the state specific nature of it means that I'm going to talk about Florida, but you will have to research this for your specific state.

I'm not sure that all states are currently operating these programs and the rules are different with each state. I was not able to verify and I didn't take the time to go through and read all of the data from all 50 states. However, this program was enacted under a 1984 federal tax law.

So that is available on a federal basis. This applies to your federal income taxes. So it's available on a federal basis, but your state might have different rules than my state. So I'm going to use Florida. I have a lot of friends in Florida, so hopefully this will benefit my Florida friends.

But you need to check out the details in your state. So in Florida, I'm just going to read right from the Florida Housing Mortgage Credit Certificate Frequently Asked Questions. A Florida housing mortgage credit certificate allows the home buyer to claim a tax credit for 50% of the mortgage interest paid per year, capped at $2,000 annually.

It is a dollar-for-dollar reduction against their federal tax liability. So define some terms. A tax credit. We always know a tax credit is probably going to be more valuable than a deduction, especially when it's a tax credit that's specifically applicable to the tax liability that you owe. The way that your normal mortgage interest deduction works is like this.

Let's say that you have – you're going through and you're putting together your deductions. Assume for a moment that you're going to itemize your deductions. That's one of the things. So you list out what are all of your different itemized deductions. Might be – let's just say focus with your mortgage interest.

Assume in a moment that you have a mortgage payment of $1,000 a month. That's $12,000 per year. Assume of your $12,000 per year mortgage payment, assume half of that, $6,000, is your interest that you're paying on the loan. So you owe – you have $12,000 of mortgage payment, $6,000 of that is interest.

If you're going to itemize your deductions, which most people don't, but if you're going to itemize your deductions, you report that income as a – that mortgage interest expense as a deduction amount. What it allows you to do is it allows you to offset $6,000 of your income. Now this is where – when I teased you at the front with talking about the difference between a credit and a deduction, this is why I'm teasing it because there is no 100% deduction for interest normally except what I'm telling you today.

There is no deduction like that. So normally the savings, assume for easy math, you're in a 25% effective tax rate. So if you knock $6,000 off of your – $6,000 off of your income with a deduction, what it's actually doing is saving you $1,500 of federal income taxes. This is why it's so important to know that it's generally, from a tax savings perspective, it can be just as good of an idea to send the money to your mortgage company as it is for you to send it to the government.

You could – it's a better deal for you to spend – I think I got mixed up there. I'm broadcasting the show on Facebook Live at the moment, which is kind of interesting and so that was slightly distracting to me. It's a new experience for you. If you'd like to see me, I'm going to start doing this more and more.

Just like the Radical Personal Finance Facebook page. I feel like I got a little bit tongue-tied there. I bet the live audience is laughing at me here. But the $1,500 that you – you're sending the mortgage company $6,000 so that you can avoid sending the federal government $1,500. That is the item that's often laid out.

But with this mortgage credit certificate, it's a direct tax credit. So what you have an opportunity here is you can avoid – you can send $2,000 to the mortgage company and that's a direct $2,000 reduction from what you would be sending to the federal government. So first, the Florida mortgage credit certificate is capped at $2,000 and it's eligible for 50 percent of the mortgage interest paid.

So there's nothing extra that you have to do. Now, who's qualified and who's eligible? This is one of the things that's really useful. So the idea is that the mortgage credit certificate program is supposed to be helping those who have low incomes buy houses. But low income is a relative term.

The way that I found out about this was a few months after I had bought a house back in 2013, closed on December 31, 2012. I had to get my homesteading tax exemption done. My wife and I wanted to get that tax exemption done. So we went and we took a mattress there to the house and we moved a mattress and a few boxes and slept in a mattress on the floor so we could homestead the property for the following calendar year.

But a few months after I'd moved in, I found out about the idea of a mortgage credit certificate program and I researched it. I found out that I would have been able to qualify under the terms of that program. Now the income limitations are not onerous. I'm going to tell you about Palm Beach County where I live, but in Palm Beach County, if you have a one to two person household, you need to make less than $78,720 per year.

Or if you have a three plus person household, you need to make less than $91,840 per year. That's pretty reasonable numbers. I mean $90,000 a year is almost two times the median income. It's not poverty living. So for many of you, this can qualify, especially for many of you like me.

You have a business. It's only going to be based upon your net profit from your business. So you can still generate more income and as you're building your business, it's only going to be based upon the net profit that you actually reported on. What about the size of the house?

On Palm Beach County, they have two different tiers where I live. In Palm Beach County, for a non-targeted area, you can purchase a house that's valued at up to $337,500. If you live in a targeted area, and each state has these different definitions. In my state, it's based upon, you can look it up, it's based upon some census tracts based upon the US census.

If you live in a targeted area, you can buy a house that's up to $412,500 of cost. So when I started looking at that, I realized, wait, I qualified income-wise and I qualified value of my house-wise. I called up literally the head of the Florida Housing Administration and I wound up speaking to them in the office and I said, "Can I do this retroactively?" I found out that no, it's not possible to do retroactively.

So this whole program, if you're going to get this tax credit, you've got to know about it in advance. You've got to apply for it and get approved in advance. And I'll talk about that process. I'm going to add a little bit of time to the process, but it's not very onerous.

So for many of you, that's what you need to know. Just research it for your state. Mortgage credit certificate program save you up to a couple thousand bucks. As long as you live in that house and it's your primary residence, and as long as you're paying mortgage interest on your loan, this credit will be in force and it can be extremely valuable for you.

All right. So let's dig a little bit deeper now. And if you're the kind of person who just needs that broad overview in the first 15 minutes here, I provided that for you. Let's go medium level and then we'll go to IRS Publication 530 for those of you who are hardcore at the end and give you a couple of tips here.

I'm just going to read a couple of paragraphs from the introduction to the Florida Mortgage Credit Certificate Program, and that'll tell you what they are and how it works. Let's do some example calculations here. Mortgage credit certificates were authorized by Congress in the 1984 Tax Reform Act. So these things have been around for a long time.

And that was what I found so personally frustrating in buying a house. It was my mortgage broker never told me about it. My real estate agent never told me about it. Nobody told me about it. I had to find out about it myself and I found out about it too late.

So the right time to find out about this is before you've bought a house. A mortgage credit certificate is a nonrefundable federal income tax credit. For those of you who aren't tax wonks, let me define that word nonrefundable. What that means is you cannot use this credit to generate more of a credit than the tax that you owe.

There are some tax credits that are refundable and there are some that aren't. The most notable one that's often refundable would be the earned income tax credit. If you qualify for the earned income tax credit because you have low income but you still qualify into that program, you can get more money back from the federal government than you ever paid in in federal income taxes.

So that's what they call a refundable credit. So it's possible to make more money than you ever paid in taxes. This is a nonrefundable credit, which means that you either get up to a $2,000 credit or up to the maximum amount of your tax liability. If you only had $1,000 of tax liability, you lose the last $1,000 of the benefit.

And those of you who are tax wonks, again, will automatically say, "Is there a carryover? I don't believe there's a carryover for this tax credit." The mortgage credit certificate reduces an eligible borrower's federal income taxes and in effect creates additional income for the borrower to use in making mortgage payments.

That's the key point of this whole thing. It is calculated in advance and this can help if you are having trouble qualifying for a mortgage based upon income limits, based upon the amount of the mortgage. This might help you to be able to purchase a little bit of a bigger house to borrow more money than otherwise would be eligible to your situation.

That's the whole point of this is to help lower income people borrow more money for bigger houses. Florida Housing offers a mortgage credit certificate with a 50% tax credit amount. Your state may vary. I've seen some states with 20%, some states with less. Check your state out and see what the limitations are on your state.

But what that 50% tax credit amount means, it means that up to 50% of the interest that you're paying on a mortgage is eligible for this credit. Homeowners with the credit are allowed to use 50% of the annual mortgage interest up to a maximum of $2,000 as a direct federal tax credit resulting in a dollar for dollar reduction of their annual federal income tax liability.

This is the awesome part. The remainder of the homeowner's annual mortgage interest will continue to qualify as an itemized tax deduction for federal income tax purposes. You get that? So what's really cool about this credit is if you have a mortgage that has a lot of interest on it, you can still use the rest of the mortgage interest that wasn't able to be used under the terms of this credit.

You can still use all of that as itemizable deductible mortgage interest. Or if that doesn't benefit you, you can still use your standard deduction just like most people do even though they have mortgages. Most people still use the standard deduction. Please note that the maximum credit allowed in any year is the lesser of 50% of the annual mortgage interest or $2,000.

So let's go through one of their examples they give right here in the Florida documents. For example, a borrower with a loan amount of $100,000 at an interest rate of 4% for 30 years pays approximately $4,000 of interest in the first year of the mortgage loan. With a 50% mortgage credit certificate, this borrower receives a direct federal income tax credit of $2,000, 50% times $4,000.

And the borrower treats the remaining $2,000 of mortgage interest paid as an itemized tax deduction. Under another example, a borrower with a loan amount of $100,000 at an interest rate of 5% for 30 years pays approximately $5,000 of interest in the first year of the mortgage loan. With a 50% mortgage credit certificate, this borrower receives a direct federal income tax credit of $2,000, which is a lesser of 50% times $5,000, $2,500, and $2,000.

The borrower treats the remaining $3,000 of mortgage interest paid as an itemized tax deduction. The annual benefit to the borrower will be the lesser of the credit amount or the amount of federal taxes owed after all other credits and deductions have been taken. The benefit cannot exceed the borrower's federal income tax liability for the year.

However, it is the carry forward. Here we go. I was wrong. However, if the borrower is unable to use all of the maximum available MCC tax credit in any year, the unused portion of the tax credit can be carried forward three tax years or until used, whichever comes first.

The MCC will provide the borrower with a federal tax credit for the life of the mortgage loan as long as the borrower occupies the property as his principal residence. Should the borrower cease to occupy the property as his primary principal residence or should the borrower refinance the mortgage loan related to the MCC, the MCC is revoked.

So this can be very useful to you and I'm glad that I found that little statement there. I had read it earlier, but I apologize for getting confused. When you can carry this forward for three years, this is an extremely valuable tax credit. Let me not overstate it. It's only a $2,000 tax credit.

This is a potentially valuable tax credit, not extremely, but potentially valuable for some people, some of you to use in your property. The key is, is it available? On the Florida documents, they update this every year and they say the program will run through December 31, 2016 or until such time as all allocation has been expended.

So depending on your state and your state's documents and your state's budget, you will have to dig into this and find out if they still have funding available. When I spoke with the guy who was the head of the Florida Housing Administration a couple years ago, he said they were having a lot of trouble advertising it.

He couldn't get people to pay attention to the program. So chances are it's possible that in your state this might still be available. A couple of comments on borrower income before we dig too deep into the weeds. First thing you should know is I think these borrower income limits are relatively generous.

Again, in Palm Beach County where I live in Florida, and they're based upon the county, but in Palm Beach County where I live, which is a higher cost of living county, it's either $80,000 a year for a one to two-person household or $91,000, $92,000 a year for a three-plus person household.

I think that's – I wouldn't consider that to be low income. Other counties that have lower earnings, the lowest that I see right off the bat is there are some counties that are as low as say $57,000 of income or $66,000 depending on which option there is. So the important thing is this is – some income sources are counted in this that aren't often counted in other types of calculations, but your assets are not counted.

These are always the two little tricks that I teach here on Radical Personal Finance is many programs, especially government programs, are calculated based upon income. If you have developed the skill of frugality and you're able to live a really great lifestyle on a low amount of income, often you can qualify for programs based upon your income even if you have hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars of assets.

It's one of the very valuable things to pay attention to. The second thing is when is it's only based upon your gross income, based upon your personal income. So when you combine the flexibility of having control over your expenses and being able to qualify for programs based upon income and when you combine that with control over your income through a business, then you wind up being able to take advantage of these programs from time to time as you are able to find them.

Now you will have to read the requirements in your state. You have to report your income. You have to do it on your tax returns and you have to demonstrate that to the lender at the time, they're required to look into all of your different income sources. I'm going to read that list to you because it's valuable for you to know at least the Florida list.

So you have to report all of your income. But as you and I both know, in a business you can choose when you make your capital investments. So if you're planning to buy a home and you'd like to take advantage of this, you might choose to make your capital investments in your business at an advantageous time so that that reflects in the lower income when you need it to qualify for a program like this.

So let's go through a couple of details of the state of Florida. In Florida, some of the unique things are to qualify. Number one, you must possess an ownership interest in and occupy the residence as a principal residence within 60 days after loan closing. No rental properties. The borrower must notify the lender and Florida Housing if he or she ceases to occupy the property as the primary residence.

At that time, the MCC will be revoked and the borrower will no longer be permitted to claim the federal tax credit. The borrower must not have owned a principal residence located within or outside the state during the three-year period ending on the date the warranty deed is executed. A mobile or manufactured home, new or existing, whether or not on a permanent foundation, meets this definition of a principal residence.

So when I decided to sell my house, unless I come across the deal of the century, which is just so great that I'll ignore this, I determined that I wouldn't own a house for at least three years. So that we'll see. Who knows? But I might want to buy another house.

If I buy another house, I'll try to get this program in place. But you can't have owned a house within the past three years. There are two exceptions to that. There are two exceptions to the three-year non-ownership requirement. The residence that's purchased is purchased in a targeted area. So again, you check this list.

It shows you the tracts based upon the US Census count. And you can look in your state to see where are those different tracts. Number two, the borrowers are veterans who purchase a home using the proceeds under a one-time exception allowance. So if you are a veteran, you can avoid that three-year rule.

That might be valuable for some of you. As far as veteran, here are the definitions of a veteran. A veteran is defined as a person who served in active duty in the United States Armed Forces or Reserves and who was discharged or released under conditions other than dishonorable. It can be valuable for you.

The borrower must meet the household income limits for the program and lenders must calculate income by using the procedures of this section. And here's where it gets a little bit unique because of all the different types of income that are included. Household income is defined as the gross annual income of the mortgagors, those signing the warranty deed, and any other person who is expected to live in the residence being financed, including income received by any household member who is 18 years of age or older, except a full-time dependent student, even if they will not be secondarily liable on the mortgage.

The income calculations for the program household compliance are different than the calculations of income for credit underwriting purposes. The MCC program requires that the income of all persons residing in the household, related or unrelated, 18 years of age or older, must be included in the calculation of the household income for program purposes.

Unlike income that is averaged for credit underwriting, the program is concerned with actual current income from all sources. Lenders should consider reviewing the income for the last four to six weeks to determine gross income, as well as compare this income on the previous tax returns for consistency. Lenders should not be averaging income.

Gross monthly income is the sum of current monthly gross pay plus any additional income from all sources, continuation of which is probable based on foreseeable economic circumstances. Once a lender has determined total gross monthly income for everyone over the age of 18 that will be residing in the property, the lender will then multiply this figure by 12 to determine the combined total household income for program purposes.

Here is the other income that is included for this calculation. The lender should also ask the borrower for specific other income. Examples are alimony annuities, auto allowance bonuses, child support commissions, disability or death benefits, dividends, education benefits used for subsistence interest, income received from business activities or investments income received from trusts, inheritances if received on a continuous basis, insurance policies if received on a continuous basis, net rental income, overtime, pensions, public assistance, recurring monetary contributions regularly received from persons not living in the unit, royalties, shift differential sick pay, social security benefits, special pay and allowances of a member of the armed forces excluding hazardous duty pay, tips, and veteran administration compensation, workers' compensation.

Those sources of income are all included. What is excluded? The following types of income can be excluded in determining a borrower's income eligibility. The amounts of educational scholarships paid directly to the student or to the educational institution, amounts paid by the government to a veteran for use in meeting the costs of tuition, fees, books, and equipment, amounts that are specifically for reimbursement of business and/or educational expenses, one-time sign-on bonus, lump sum additions to family assets such as inheritance, insurance payments, including payments under health and accident insurance and workers' compensation, capital gains and settlement for personal or property losses, payments received for the care of foster children, sporadic or irregular gifts, payments that are specifically for or in reimbursement of the cost of medical expenses, and severance pay.

So it's a little bit tedious to go through those lists, but for some of you, based upon looking at your specific situation, you might be able to find some options that work. In addition, a couple of things, cosigners are not permitted in this program. Non-occupying co-borrowers are not permitted in Florida Housing's MCC program, and eligible borrowers must attend a six- to eight-hour face-to-face homebuyer education class.

There are some requirements on the type of property. All of them are fairly standard, fairly reasonable standards that are applied. They all make sense. The key thing with this is if you want to participate in this program, you must do it in advance, and you must work with a lender who is a participating lender in the program.

So this will require some homework from you in advance. Eligible borrowers apply for the program with participating lenders by completing a standard mortgage application. The Florida Housing Compliance Review is conducted after the lender has approved, closed the mortgage loan, and the borrower has executed all necessary closing documentation. If the loan meets the applicable MCC compliance guidelines, the lender's underwriter issues an approval.

So pay attention, share this with other people, and make sure they know before the fact. I think it'll take a little bit longer. You got to pay attention. You got to work with a certain lender. But hey, for $2,000 a year of savings, $2,000 that I can spend on something else, I'm willing to do that.

There are some other details. I was going to go deeper into the weeds, but in just looking at my notes here, I think I'm going to stop this deep dive. I will link to the Florida programs in the show notes for today's show, but you need to look to your own state and read your own state's documents.

There is some information in publication 530 from the IRS. That's the publication that talks about all the deductions surrounding and available with housing. So you can find more details about that. But I think that's deep enough. There is a recapture. You have to stay in the house for at least eight years, otherwise there can be a recapture of some of this benefit.

So this is not something that you'll want to do if you are just going to live there a few years. But if you want to live in a house and have some extra money, discount your taxes, man, I'll do that. I think there are some intelligent ways that you can use to adjust this.

And $2,000 a year of extra cost is a not insubstantial amount of money to put things over in favor of owning the house. One of the questions that I had when thinking about it was considering is there a way – can you refinance the property from time to time?

The answer is yes, you can refinance it. But you have to refinance the property and seek approval before the refinance. It's possible that the new loan wouldn't be approved before – at least in Florida. It's possible that if the new loan weren't approved for the program, then you could lose it.

So you would want to be careful with that. As with anything, read the fine print. But I guess for me, this one is important to me simply because I was always frustrated that no one told me. It seems like – and at the time, I was a financial planner.

I was a – I don't know, a CFP. I should know about this stuff. I didn't know about it. So I've told all of the people that I can think of some ways to save money on their house and do people – does it work out in all situations?

No. But check into it in your situation and see if you can find some radical and intelligent way to make this work. So I hope that's useful. I know we didn't get too technical with all of that. But for those of you who have been missing these – the Wednesday financial planning shows, they're coming.

I'm working on them. I appreciate each and every one of you listening. Couple of quick notes. One is I have put this video out on Facebook for today's show. I think I'll do more of that in the future. I've wanted to do this and put them out on Periscope but I just didn't get a lot of traction there with Periscope.

So I do like this Facebook because Facebook is much more integrated now that Facebook is going live with their Facebook Live feature. It's a cool option. I like that I can chat and I can see who's watching. Then you all can comment down the road. You can see how I do the show.

I'll do more of this stuff in the future. Today I'm just recording. But if you'd like to do that, come on over to the Radical Personal Finance Facebook page. Go to Facebook.com/radicalpersonalfinance. Number two is when I hang up the phone here in about 25 minutes, I'm getting ready to launch our Q&A call for the Friday Q&A show.

That's one of the benefits available to patrons. So if you'd like to support the show and if you'd like to interact with me personally, you can partly do that in the comments on a Facebook Live video. You can always email me, joshua@radicalpersonalfinance.com. But also consider becoming a member of the patron program.

I've been working on reworking that, making it much simpler and providing benefits that I can deliver on. You can find the two major benefits that I've settled on is access to our Radical Personal Finance Irregulars Facebook group. That's become a community. It's about 80 people right now. Just an awesome community of people interacting, answering questions for one another.

That has been a really awesome community. There are people there that are smarter than me. So you can gain access to that. Many of the members there say it's their favorite thing about what I do just to gain access to the diversity of thought there. People who are listeners of the show, knowledgeable in these things.

Also you get access to the Friday Q&A calls. So if you're not supporting the show as a patron, consider coming over to radicalpersonalfinance.com/patron. Love to have you there and you get some of those benefits and hopefully that can be valuable for you. Radicalpersonalfinance.com/patron. Be back with you all soon.

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