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We continue the September interview blitz Well, I am out of town and Working with my family. I am playing a bunch of really cool interviews Check back in October for the more normal flow of the show, but right now I'm gonna bring you an interview with Jordan Harbinger founder of the very excellent website and Podcast called the art of charm.

We're gonna talk about how social skills can influence your life and your career Basically help you rock it Welcome to the radical personal finance podcast. My name is Joshua sheets, and I'm your host. Thank you for being with me today today Let's talk about social skills. When's the last time you sat down and studied how to act?

Perhaps you were blessed with excellent social skills Perhaps you were blessed with excellent parents who sat you down and instructed you on the fine art of manners the fine art of charm Fine art of how to network effectively, but a lot of us didn't have that That means we got to study it because that is an important life skill.

I Often think about this type of subject and I think man what an important what an important important important important aspect of life but for most of us unless you've either been proactive about recognizing a deficiency in your own comportment and Decided to go out and rectify that by study and practice or unless you've had a parent or a mentor or a boss or a friend who took you all under their wing and Said hey, let me teach you a thing or two.

Most of us just kind of slid past these aspects of life We didn't really study and learn about the things that we need to learn about especially how do you beat charming? How do you be persuasive? How do you become influential? How do you ingratiate yourself with other people now Before we get to the interview.

I just want to mention to you. It's up to you How you use these skills some people take skills and use them for evil? Some people take skills and use them for good and that choice is up to you but There are very few things in life that will make a bigger impact on Your ability to succeed than your overall social skills So it's worth studying and I've invited Jordan on the show to share with us some of his experience and some of his wisdom So let's get to it Jordan welcome to radical personal finance.

I appreciate being with me today. Thanks, man. Yeah, I appreciate the invite I brought you on to talk about Personal effectiveness and personal skills and with radical personal finance kind of the core mission is to help people Build a lifestyle of financial independence I come from a background as being a former financial planner and one of the things that I noticed was a lot of what financial Planners talk about is useful, but it's not the most useful.

Yeah, because you can put money in an IRA But if you're just an idiot and everyone hates you It's not gonna work. So I wanted to bring you on to talk about Social skills social dynamics and ways that people can improve their interpersonal relationships But first give us a quick intro as to your background with the art of charm Sure, so I used to be a financial attorney actually on Wall Street.

So speaking of bad financial advice I know a lot about that stuff and I Had a quote-unquote mentor there. His name was Dave and by mentor I don't mean like Matthew McConaughey meet we're doing the oyster shooters on the roof on Wall Street I mean he was never there didn't care not that he didn't care about me or anything he just had other things to do and So one day I caught up with them because they were like, how's your mentorship program going?

I was like it What are you talking about? We don't have that, you know, everybody else went to Blue Man Group and I haven't done squat So they made him take me out for coffee Just like the saddest summer associate thing and I said, how come you're you're never here in the office Even though we're supposed to bill hours.

Like that's the point of being a lawyer, right? It's make money for the firm and He's like, oh, well, I'm bringing in the deals, you know, I'm bringing in all the business So I don't care about billing hours. I don't care about worrying about how often I'm in the office I don't need to put in FaceTime or any of that crap because I I don't need the money.

I get money from bringing in deals and I was like, wait a second So you this is a guy from Brooklyn with a tan, right? So I'm like this guy knows what he's talking about So I go I dive headfirst into this because I'm thinking wait a second There's guys sleeping under their desk here and you don't even show up on Tuesdays or or most of the week for that matter And he's he's like, yeah, I'm golfing.

I do jujitsu I go on charity events and cruises and I do dinners and all this stuff I'm like, so you're just a pro schmoozer, but but it's not just like being seen it's like you're getting business from this this activity these deals somehow you're and and that threw everything in the face about what I knew about networking because I thought You you work your way to the top and then like there's some you know Country Club that you join and all the other top guys are there and then you become friends and that's how your network gets Formed it's actually the other way around Yeah you build the network before you get to the top the reason you're at the top is because your network brings you there and And that was like my you know, my mind exploded right that right.

I was like, holy crap This is this this is the hack and he was the first person that taught you that right? He taught me that but he taught me that indirectly. He wasn't like listen man. Here's what you got to do He was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever and because he didn't really I don't think he even thought about in retrospect I don't think he was like listen if you know people and you bring in deals, you'll get to the top faster I think he was just like whatever.

You're another summer associate who's not even gonna be here next year. He's right about that though So what'd you do from there So I dedicated myself to learning about the networking process and the relationship development process because I thought wait a minute this is I Can't sleep under my desk.

I'm not gonna I'm never gonna be hard-working and like I have a good work ethic But I'm never gonna be able to outwork these people who are like, they don't need sleep. They don't like their drones Yeah They're my robot drones some people to be fair like Probably them like some of them were immigrants from other countries that were like my family's not here I I'm just here to work my butt off and make money and bring over like ten relatives and I'm like, hey if you're gonna Do that cool, but I don't have that kind of motivation right?

Like I'm I need a life, you know, I'm not first-generation and Again, like props to that props to those people, but I was not gonna do that I needed like a life and I wanted to get married and have kids and so There was this other group of people that were just friggin geniuses and I am NOT in that camp Anybody's heard the art of charm podcast is like yeah, you're not gonna could think you didn't bet on that one.

So So I thought okay. Here's what I'm gonna do the third invisible What do you call like the third invisible path? That no one knows about is building a network and it's not like oh, I I know this guy So I get something that I don't deserve it's wait a minute I'm making myself visible Through not through working super hard and outworking everyone and being that all-star and not through being the smartest guy in the room But by connecting other people so it's not just knowing people and getting favors.

That's why people hate networking They're like, I don't just want to get something. I don't deserve shame on you It's not that you're connecting other people and that's valuable, right? So it's different than just being like well, my dad owns the company. So I got this promotion So, you know go fly a kite.

It's like no No, I know these guys who needed to know those guys who needed to know us to make that transaction happen Thus we got the business there's real value there. And in fact that value is so rare The skill set of bringing that value I should say is so rare that if you are a master of it you can write your own ticket in terms of like corporate stuff because the the fact of the matter is It's like baseball players The reason they get paid a ton is because there's not a it's not like you and I can go I can hit that ball Over that fence we can't right and it takes years and years and years and there's talent involved and all this other stuff So since it's so rare that made Dave the most valuable guy in the firm Which was a skill set that I now realize applies to everything not just law it applies to literally any industry anywhere If you can be the connector You don't have to be the smartest guy in the room and you don't have to outwork everyone and that's good news for like Ninety nine point nine percent of the population.

I'm fascinated by watching The venture capitalist investors, you know the one in Silicon Valley. Yeah, one of the things I notice is The investors have to work they almost have to fight with each other - when there's a good firm that has a good perspective future the investors have to fight with each other in order to get noticed by the owners of the company and They not only can't just throw money at the company because a good founder who knows they've got a good thing They need money.

Yes, but they all also need connections and many times the most effective successful the most effective successful Investors are the ones who are able to bring the connections and I just finished a book Called you only have to be right once and it was written by a fortune magazine editor and he covered basically a story of I think It was 12 or 13 different of these stories of the founder of Instagram and the founder of snapchat and these different, you know people who went from nothing to billionaires in Almost no time right, but one of the stories in there was about an amazing guy He was a Persian rug merchant first-generation immigrant came to the country from Iran knew Nobody got a job selling rugs and no stereotype.

Right, right exactly But as he was selling rugs He recognized where to sell his rugs and he would start working with rich people and that was where he was targeting He would go out and he would always try to sell a rug in somebody's house And one of the things that he started doing as he was selling rugs was asking questions about what do you do and taking an interest?

in other people He became one of the most connected and influential people in Silicon Valley and there are several I forget the names But there were several of these big kind of multi billionaire the founders of these these hot firms that got their start Sitting in the back of his rug shop drinking tea while he would connect them in Silicon Valley Unbelievable and he transformed himself from a penniless immigrant selling rugs to a multi multi million dollar investor extremely wealthy Purely based on his ability to connect people and to this day.

He doesn't have the largest venture capital fund. He doesn't have the largest bank book but he's got the connections and he's always diligent about going and helping and making the connections and making the connections and People will send them pieces of the deals just because he's so valuable for connections Well now he's probably like hey if this pans out throw me a point or two exactly.

Yeah, whatever Okay, if it works, it's papers pays for itself instantly. So he's probably got points on like a hundred two hundred exactly Ventures that are profitable. Yeah at this point. It's an amazing story. Yeah, that's brilliant And that's exactly what we're talking about You don't have to be a rug salesman to really knock this out of the park either Because one of the exercises that I give we have a networking class That's all online at the art of charm comm that we just released this month and one of the exercises that we give there In social capital is what it's called One of the exercises is write down everyone, you know, and and obviously that's like an impossible task, right?

So you start making you it takes like an hour and a half two hours You make this sheet of everyone that you know And I'm talking about like your mom's hairdresser to like your dentist and it's you won't finish it it's not designed to be completed because you'd know literally tens of thousands of people and what happens when you do that is you start to think about who you can help without thinking about anything that that person can do for you and the it starts it forces you to think of your relationships in a completely different way and the reason that I came up with this is because what happened to me once was I got a Toothache when I moved to Los Angeles, I was there for like a week.

I just moved to LA and I got a toothache It was terrible and I thought man I'm I'm never gonna be able to find a dentist because I called like five and they're like, yeah go to the ER I'm like, dude, I know what happens in the ER. They tie a string around your tooth and slam the door That's how they cure your toothache in an ER like with no insurance.

So I put it on I put on Facebook I was like desperate need dentist in LA Does anyone know who can see me on short notice? I have a serious toothache. It's driving me crazy. Can't sleep can't do anything This guy writes back and he's like my aunt's a dentist Let me call her and I'll see if she can slot you in on a short notice, right?

He called and I don't know this guy Just like a random guy follows me on Facebook or there's a friend of a friend or something You know, I said that was to public everybody, please So I get a message like in two or three hours and the guys like my aunt will see you She's you know, she'll charge you fairly like thanks for everything that you do as your show My cousin introduced me to it blah blah blah So I go to this dentist I get my tooth taken care of and I'm like, hey man, thank you so much for this I really appreciate you hooking me up with the dentist.

That's really great I'm super thankful like I was dying. He's like cool. I'm like anything I can do for you. He's like well, I don't know I mean if you ever need a graphic designer, let me know and I'm like, okay, whatever I don't need a graphic designer, but I'll keep my ear to the ground for you and Like two days later.

I get an email. That's like hey, I love your website. I'm looking to redo mine who does your site? I'm like, well this guy does the site but you need a graphic designer Here's a portfolio from a random guy. Let me know if you want an intro She's like actually this looks good.

And my other designers totally flaky. So can you introduce me to that guy? They work together on a few projects later on he gets a full-time job 80 grand a year full-time graphic design with like a friend of hers and I'm like you do realize that You got that job because you hooked me up with a dentist right on Facebook And that's why so you can't plan for this type of Serendipitous success and that's why when you network for transactional purposes It's it's the wrong way to do it like if you're going to somebody you're like I need to meet this guy because this guy does this and he's the only guy who Can help me with this and so I need to meet that person for that reason that works to a certain extent But if you're ignoring everything else You're you're leaving it all like 90% of it on the table because you can't plan for the guy who helps you with a dentist on Facebook that then you then get a job at a graphic design and and then if I ever need to do business with his new Employer I just have to call him right and he'll be like yeah I'll fast-track you and be like this guy's cool He helped me get this job indirectly and that employer is now thankful that I got him that guy that guy's thankful for his job The other girls thankful for the website.

I'm thankful for the dentist. So there's wins on all sides like everybody in that Interaction one and if I had just gone I need a dentist Who's can find me a dentist and I only message dentist or if he was like I need a graphic design job And he only message people Hey Do you need a graphic designer that would never have happened like none of those?

Transactions or interactions would ever have happened because we would have been aiming at totally different targets Do you have a way to look for somebody to look at their own skill set and be able to? Identify their level of effectiveness to kind of say yeah I'm I'm really terrible at this or I'm really good because one of the things that frustrates me is I observe a lot of people and just keep my observations to myself But I noticed many people that I observe is they don't perceive themselves.

We always have a tough times Perceiving how we actually are. That's why when we watch a video of ourselves like wait a second. That's not me I don't look like that. Yeah, you do. Yeah, I know and unfortunate It's never like wow, I look like that. It's like oh man, I look like that So is there a way that you have for somebody to kind of look at their own situation and say how effective am I at?

Networking at bringing value to other people. Yeah, I mean, it's it's very Unsystematic, but if how often do you feel like you have to sell yourself? How often are you calling people and asking for things? Versus how often are you being introduced to exactly the right people that you need?

essentially without you having to ask and the percentage of course of you just having quote-unquote having things fall in your lap in air quotes is The is is a good estimator of how how good you are at this for example When I want to when I wanted to speak a lot this year and next year around the world I just told like two people and I put it on my show like hey, I'm interested in speaking stuff, especially international I am I now I booked out like a 18 months of speaking gigs probably like in the next like 60 not even 60 days Because I just got a ton of offers that were like you want to speak Why didn't you say so come to India come to Australia come to California Las Vegas, Florida, New York, Maryland That happened instantly because I just sort of put it out to a couple of folks that I knew were really well Connected in that area who are like world famous speaker types and they're like, yeah Come to this event and speak with me at this and that's that's a result of not me going Hi, I'd like to speak at this event.

Hi. Can I speak at your event? Can I speak at that event? I don't have to do that and it's not because oh, I'm so cool It's because the network has set up such that people are actively looking for ways to help me because I keep helping them on other things all the time What's the process and I assume this is why you write a course so feel free to write to mention that but what's the process?

Of learning these skills very practically sure. So one of the things that we have people do is Aside that you start off with that list of like everyone, you know Quote-unquote and you just start to look for people that you can help every single day and by help I don't mean like Oh Josh is moving Let me go over there and help him lift crap out of his garage like you can do that But you don't have to do that The highest leverage point for people is going to be connecting other people together because I know what people are thinking right now They're like, yeah, I'm not a professional speaker.

I'm not a technical person. Not a graphic designer. How can me a Random fight let's say financial planner. How can I help like a technical person? I can't the answer is not what you can do with your own skills In terms of your professional skills the answer lies in what you can do To connect people inside your own network.

So if you're a financial planner and I'm like, oh, well, sorry I invest my money with another guy then our transaction quote-unquote is over But if you're like man, you know, I'm really looking for ways to get new clients. I'm like, well, okay Who do you need to meet and you tell me what client kind of clients you get?

I might have ideas for that but I might be like well, where do most of your clients come from? Well, you know I get them a lot when I do consulting for nonprofits just randomly but humor me on right? I'm like, oh, well, I know a ton of people that run nonprofits you do consulting for nonprofits Why don't I introduce you to those people now?

I'm introducing you to them So it doesn't matter that I don't know how to find you nonprofit Clients or whatever. I'm just introducing you to people in that world I can do that via email and I could do I could do 50 a day before lunch, right? So people because people go well, I don't have time to help like a hundred people a day I got a job or I don't know enough people if you start to look at your relationships as who can I connect?

to help each other That's a massive. There's so much leverage there because you can know 50 100 people Which is nothing compared to how many people you actually know right and you can start plugging them all into each other And you'd be surprised what people need like that guy didn't think I'm just waiting till Jordan needs a dentist and I'm gonna get that Graphic design job, right that wasn't in his head at all So just constantly be looking for ways to help other people and usually the way that you do that is by connecting people who are already Inside your network once you get really good at that Then you can start reaching out on behalf of other people and on behalf of yourself So for example, if I knew that you needed to meet nonprofit founders, I might go well cool I know one guy who's a nonprofit founder, but he's got to know some others So I might reach out to him on your behalf and say who else do you know that might be able to help Josh?

now you've got access to a person who's well connected in the circle that you need specifically and It's via me, but I'm not doing any of the work other than sending a couple emails here and there I'm brokering the deal, but I'm you know, quote-unquote, but I'm not getting anything other than goodwill out of it But if I ever needed anything from you or any of those nonprofit people who you help after that they're gonna be like, oh sure Yeah, what can I do for you?

Because I basically Sold them your skills for free and vice versa, right? the thing I love about networking as a skill set and as a practice is that Done properly and done effectively. It's a hundred percent ethical and and appropriate because professional networking is not Going around and flinging business cards people and telling what you are professional networking is constantly thinking Who is this person?

What are they working toward and how can I help them? Exactly. It's it's it's the whole idea And of course, we have like scripts for everything that I'm talking about because people are like wait back up, right? It's a you know, I should have actually written this down, but it's the art of charm.com slash social - capital But if you just go to the art of charm and you click on networking or products, it's in there And maybe I can send you a link you can throw in the show notes or something Yeah, but it's all about giving authentically and giving generously So you don't think about what you can get out of it because then you go if you do that You're going back to that transactional thing where you're like, okay Well, what do I get out of it?

If I hook Jordan up with a dentist? The answer is nothing, right? Right, so then that wouldn't have worked. So if I'm just looking at giving authentically and generously I I'm gonna stand out from the so-called professional networkers who are like smarmy business card slingers who are like Hey next time you need a financial planner.

Here's my card and I'm like, I'm not ever I don't who are you? Why would I call you? I don't know you I don't trust you with all my money. Are you crazy? Right, why would that ever work? But that's how most people network and that's why most normal nice people hate networking, right?

Because their vision of it is like hard selling yourself on Strangers which they hate when that happens to them so one of the largest criticisms are like people go oh man this Jordan guy is gonna be so annoying if I meet him in Person cuz he's gonna be like hey, whatever if you need this call me and it's not like that It's like what can I do for you?

It's so much easier because nobody's like Wait a minute. What can you do for me? Nothing go away like only the most skeptical Cynical sob would do that and and there are still people that do that But those people when you look at sort of their lifestyle, they're very unsuccessful Generally, because if you're living your life going hmm, you're helping me that's suspicious There's a good chance that you're you're not operating at your potential because you've built a wall around you Which is not how successful people live and work the skills of networking are Specifically in and of themselves as you mentioned in the early part of this discussion.

They are a financially valuable skill and my Example of this and a resource also years ago when I was beginning financial plan. I read a book by dr Thomas Stanley who is the author of the millionaire next door and this book was entitled networking with the affluent and He actually did a lot of studies of affluent people to try to figure out what is what are the common?

Themes now some of that research that he talked about was featured in millionaire next door millionaire mind those types of books But this one was all about how do you actually do it and in networking with the affluent? He specifically identifies certain services that you can provide to your clients that will be incredibly helpful but one of the most helpful that he emphasized on is being a connector and He profiled in that book a CPA and this CPA was one of the most effective most successful CPAs in the area had a massive client base of very wealthy clients and he's interviewing the CPA and he's trying to figure out What is the CPA doing?

he realized that what one of the major values that this person brought was connecting his clients with other people and So and then he took it to another level and here's the specific example I'm gonna draw out if he had a client who wanted to Who wanted to buy a car?

He was also connected with the owners of the local car dealerships and he behind his desk He would have stacks and stacks and stacks of business cards of different people that he knew and that he trusted so he would connect the client the wealthy business owner with the owner of the Car dealership and he would make an introduction so that person could be treated.

Well, well over time He developed a technique of actually going above and beyond and so what he started doing was Negotiating the acquisition of the cars for his clients. He was a CPA. He was an impartial person He he was well schooled in money So he could actually negotiate the deal and he would go a step beyond and actually negotiate and the person He didn't get paid for that.

He didn't charge his clients for it It was a simple thing that he did that added value But he had a massive bustling accounting practice with clients that were incredibly loyal because of everything else that they got right and this accountant was the one who okay I'm trying to get my daughter into Harvard.

Let me call my accountant and see who he knows that went to Harvard Maybe they could give her some help That's how the world works is helping people and connecting people and that's a skill set that you can practice and develop and that guy Never lost a client never and even if he wasn't the greatest accountant.

Oh, yeah, and he probably was pretty good But even if he wasn't the person would say well, I get so much value from him I still get a key and if anybody ever needs an accountant ever among all of their wealthy well-to-do friends They're like the only choice exactly.

He helped Julie get into Harvard. He helped Monica buy her car, right? He helped build, you know with his other issue here I mean, this is the only guy that you can use and yes, his fees are 3x what normally you'd pay But it's totally worth right and even though and so on top of that the other resource that really helped me Was I read when I was in the beginning of college?

I read a book by an author named Keith for Ozzy called never eat a light Yeah probably one of the most well-known networking books and what that taught me is just because networking is ethical and Filled with integrity and just because you're going about it right the way if you don't do it proactively You're not gonna reap the full results, right?

So you can sit around and help the two or three people that are in your life, and that's a great place to start But if you can go out and proactively bring more people into your life and then focus on helping them Now all of a sudden you start to compound your returns talk about that Yeah, sure.

So a lot of people treat networking as like a passive thing where it's for example You say well, I say I need a dentist. You're like, well, I know a dentist right? That's great But what if I know what your business needs to go to the next level? Like what if you're saying?

People well, I'll give you a real-life example people come up to me all the time They're like I want to start a show, you know, they might be an author What can I do to? Launch a successful show get people listening to it get some visibility in iTunes and I'll give them I can give them that if they ask But what I can also do is say actually, you know What you really need to do is not just start this podcast and put it up in iTunes and let it fly and make it really Successful you should also be connecting with other authors You guys should have each other on each other shows because people who buy books they don't just buy one book It's not a car, you know, you buy tons of books and if they're in the same niche you buy all the books And you read all the books so you guys got to be exchanging this I happen to know the other ten authors that contacted me this month that are also bestsellers.

Do you know them? Oh, you know two of them. All right. Well, let's reach out to the other eight I'll do that for you. And so I'm actually in a better position to find out what they need because of my experience You can also Proactively ask people what they want if nobody's coming to you because I know people are going yeah That's great.

If you have something everyone's asking you for what if you don't you can start saying? What are you working on right now? See there's this weird thing where people go How can I help you and you're like, I don't know exactly and and that's that's kind of amateurish I know it's like trendy right now to good place to start but if you if that's all you can but you can make it A little more elegant it yeah people do that because it's it's like I don't know I've got a whole tirade that I'll spare you but I feel like it's fake generosity like tirades bring it on But yeah people go how can I help you and usually they they're so vague that right?

They're not really planning to help you. It's just they want to show like how helpful they are So they say how can I help you and really they're just kind of not gonna do anything Knowing that it's gonna be vague enough that you're not gonna be able to ask for anything and then you know Knowing that most of the time they're gonna get away with it But if you look proactively for ways you can help people and then ask them if they need that That's super super helpful One of the things my friend Michael port wrote a book called book yourself salad and he's coming out with a new book in October It's awesome.

And I'm like, you know what you need to do you need to go on some of these these different shows because These are the types of shows that have audiences that are gonna buy your book and podcasts and move books and he's like, okay cool So I just I said, do you know this person this person this person in this person?

He's like no, so I made interest all those people but he wasn't gonna go Hey Can you introduce me to a bunch of people who have a podcast that might move my book? Because he didn't necessarily think about that and the top in the moment. So if you're able to make those introductions Proactively or help people by asking them specifically or even frankly telling them what maybe they need to do and then Doing 90% of that for them.

They'll be super thankful Yeah, of course you still have to get their permission because he might be like no I have no time for additional media then don't make 20 intros that he then can't use but Definitely do ask people what they need. Like if somebody moves to town and they're moving to my area I'll say hey, listen, I know you're probably looking for Places to go that have good food good gin Maybe some cool like loungy places to grab a drink Here's some places to avoid that look really promising but are totally annoying.

Here's where the worst traffic is You know and we'll send them an email like that I'll have Jen my assistant like send that to people who move into San Francisco or whatever and they're like, holy crap This is so awesome. Thank you so much. And it's not because I'm like, yes, I'm gonna ask you for something later It's like no, no problem I know that this is what you need because this is what we ran into headfirst when we moved here So you can avoid all those headaches and it's just it's looking for those little proactive things that you frankly You already know that people need you're just not doing anything about it because you feel like oh It's not my place or it would be weird if I wrote them that or it'd be weird if I sent them this It's not and you should do it, but people don't do it.

They you know, they're either shy or It's not habit. I would say one thing that's helpful to me It is weird if you do it if it's immediately connected to a request. Yes, that's when that's when it's weird That's when it's weird and that's when it becomes transactional and that's why you give generously and authentically with without the agenda Because expect expect this Nine out of ten people that you help you'll never get anything helpful from them ever again in your whole life If once you sort of accept that and you're still cool with helping other people Then when somebody doesn't help you back You're not like what a jerk right because that's the problem is people that's a problem is what people do is they go?

Oh, yeah, Josh, you know you live it. Oh you live in Minneapolis. Oh, you should try this My cousin's got a restaurant there. You should go here for dinner. Don't worry. I'll take care of it And then I'm like, hey Josh, can you have me on your podcast? You're like, that's not really a good fit And I'm like this guy sucks.

What a jerk right? I helped him get a free lunch Then he didn't have me on a show this guy's he's such an a-hole right like that's not cool Because that's what I call a covert contract And what that is is I'm saying if I help you you're gonna help me and what you hear is hey This guy helped me is so nice But really I'm like, where is it in return and people do this in their relationships, too like you've all we all have like the guy friend who who like drives women to the airport and is like if If I drive her to and from the airport in that time, she's gonna find out I'm the I'm the one I'm the guy her dream guys been right here the whole time because he watched like say anything way too many times Right and and so if once you get that Transactional BS idea out of your head the industry realized most people won't help you back and that's totally okay And that's how it's supposed to be Then you start running into like this really clean Authentic area of networking where you're just helping people out like you're and I hate the word networking But we have to call it that so people know what we're talking about But then you're just you're just helping people and it's Zig Ziglar who's now Has passed is he said I actually this all right, and I might have butchered this I might be like Brian Tracy But it's it's if you you'll you'll always get what you want If you just help enough other people get what they want Ziggler, right?

I have everything in life you want if you just help enough. Thank you. Yes, exactly and it's true and That sounds it sounds so hippie-dippie But where it comes in really handy is when you realize oh, wait a minute All he's talking about is getting emotionally invested in other people helping them achieve their goals And and just helping other people in any way shape or form He's not talking about like throw away all your dreams and ambitions and help other people achieve and dot dot dot profit, right?

He's this is a very practical tip It's just that people are afraid to do it because they don't think it'll work quote-unquote for them Because they're not gonna get something in return right away, but when you stop thinking about that And you stop keeping we call it keeping score if you stop keeping score then it becomes much nicer like I might help someone ten times and They might do nothing for me and then on the 11th time I show up at their car dealership and they're like, hey, man I know exactly what's wrong with your car.

I'm just gonna fix this for free. You've done a lot for me that Then I'm like, oh cool. But if I'm keeping score, I'm like, well, you got to do nine more things for me, dude right, you know, I mean and that's not a good way to live because then you just resent everyone you interact with and That will stop you from helping other people who you think well this guy's never gonna be able to do anything for me So I'm not gonna help him.

That's toxic. That's when you run into the whole well I can't help this guy So I'm not going to like the guy on Facebook if he was like, well sure I'll hook you up with a dentist if you get me a job You think you would have hooked me up with a dentist that would never would have happened never In my mind you could sum it all some much of it up and the title of Harvey McKay's book Which was dig your well before you're thirsty and you've got to do it in advance.

Yes, but if you've got a well When you are thirsty and you have a need My thought and you can comment on this it's no problem to ask for help and so specifically one of the pieces of advice that I've given to other people is And this is where you have to have done it in advance, but I get so Frustrated when I see people who are out of work.

They've lost a job and they can't get work and What my advice to people is? Hopefully if you've done a good job along the way of building a network building a well And then when you're thirsty pick up the phone and call every single person and say I have a need I'm looking for help Here's specifically what I'm looking for.

And if you know of anything, please help me Yeah, if you've done the back work and you've developed a deep level of relationship with many people You'd have a job in no time. And so if you have a need like that something specific you can ask for help But you must have a deep well so that when you're thirsty you can go to it for water Exactly.

It's that that book title is so money and we use that also in the social capital product and teach people how to dig The well because of course people go dig the well. Yeah, okay dot dot dot how do I do that? and so the whole course that we teach is How to dig the well how to maintain the well how to make sure the well is deep enough to to butcher this analogy to beat this analogy that the metaphor to death and The the reason that this is so key is because everybody and everyone's experienced this.

Oh crap. I need a job Hey, Josh, what's going on over? Sheets management LLC, buddy. You need any help and you're like GTFO man. I don't want to talk to you right now I've already heard from seven people that your job hunting. I'll keep my ear to the ground I don't need anybody to you know to come through but if this is like Your your boy that's helped you like meet your wife or like the guy who?

Negotiated your car like that CPA or the guy that's like done other stuff for you and friends around you Then you're like, oh crap man, Jordan lost his job. Wait a minute. Who do I know? I know a couple people that might be able to help now You're reaching out to those people because you you can't wait to help somebody that's done a ton of stuff for you, right?

But if somebody is like just hey old buddy old pal, you're like, er, stop right there I know you're gonna ask me for something because that's the only time I ever talked to you Just spare me right right and and nobody digs the well and that's why people it's another reason why people are like Networking doesn't work.

It's a boys club Well, it's a boys club, but you can build it around you if you don't want to be in if you don't think that's a problem you know you build this around you and Whether or not you choose to build a strong network around you or you choose to ignore this because you're fed and fat and happy right now That's that's your choice But don't cry when like the world comes crashing down and nobody has your back because you need to be building those strong relationships and and That's why we go we favor depth of relationship over Breadth if you had to if you had to choose one, which you actually don't So instead of trying to help seven million people and having those people in your network It's much better to have like really close friends That also have large networks if you if that's the way that you guys are gonna roll so like a lot of my really good friends I I've invested a lot of time with them because they're great people and we have a lot of fun But also I know that they have my back and so if I ever need anything I can also reach out to them and and their network or their business and their team and they can help as well So it's really nice to be able to have that very it and it's again.

It's not transactional It's not hey if I hang out with this guy long enough. He'll help me out if I ever need it It's just helping other people as much as possible But spending more time developing quality relationships than just trying to like pepper it around everywhere To people who you don't even know their name, you know, you have sense Yeah, do you have any regular practices ongoing disciplines ways that you remind yourself or tools that you use to remind yourself to?

Be working to help other people yeah I mean it used to be something that I kind of had to manually do and I would use things like Contactually to be like email Josh and say hello, right? Facebook does a decent job of just telling you whose birthday it is So you can write people on their birthday and be like, hey man long time to talk.

Happy birthday What are you working on this year? What are your goals and stuff like that? And sometimes people don't answer but other times people are like, yeah, man, you know, it's been a tough year You know, my wife had a baby and we're like we're trying to move but her dad is sick and you know I've got a back issue and it's just I'm getting no relief from it and I'm like, well, huh?

What can I do to me? This is tough. Like these are a lot of personal issues What can I do to help in any way shape or form and I'm like, oh you live in Minneapolis Well, you just had a baby. Do you have is child care an issue?

Cuz I know like I have a cousin there who's very responsible. She's really cool She you know, if you ever need like an emergency babysitter Maybe I can help and also I've got a great chiropractor that I can recommend that deals like specifically with back issues So, you know if you want to come out to San Francisco I can even I can introduce you to this guy and maybe there's an experimental treatment that can like help with your back issue or Whatever like you just look for any way shape or form that you can help that person Even if the only help you can give them is emotional support Sometimes you you just you have nothing and you just go that sounds really hard But if you ever just want to vent, you know Just holler at me feel free to write me a three-page email about something and I will just you know Just bounce it off me, right and if you're friends with that person, it's not weird If it's a stranger on the Internet, it's freaking weird.

But like if you have a real relationship with those people, right? Sometimes just letting someone vent and going, you know what though like here's this awful thing that happened to me three years ago And I'm fine now. So there is light at the end of the tunnel Let me know how I can ever help sometimes people go Damn that felt good because they can't complain to their family their families relying on them Their friends have already heard every complaint in the book or they have worse troubles, you know So being able to vent sometimes is just that's support enough So there's there's like tactical support where it's like I come over and help you move.

There's emotional support where I'm like, oh Man, you're moving. What a pain. I've moved like 18 times. It's the worst let you vent about it. Get back to work and then there's sort of like actual Sort of network based support where I'm like, oh you're moving. I've got movers that don't steal.

They're insured they show up on time Do you want to use them? Are you having trouble finding somebody that type of thing is all That is all helpful, right and people only think about the one which is well crap you're moving. Don't call me now I pick up a Refrigerator, you know so that if you start if you stop looking at it in those limited constraints of what can this person do for?

Me and what do I have to do for them directly? but instead you're thinking of how can I help them and you know full stop and Who do I know that can aid that it doesn't have to be me now you're you're your whole horizon is massively broadened for what you can do for other people and Then it will come back to you And I know a lot of people who are like kind of new to this stuff might not believe that But if you just think about the way that you behave as a human you want to help other reciprocity So you want to help people that help you and this isn't some like the universe provides like no the universe doesn't give it to Craps about you, but reciprocity is a human trait, right?

And so if I help you with a bunch of stuff and you happen to know how you can help me back You will literally do it to make yourself feel better. Yeah, unless you're a sociopath in which case, you know, right? Yeah, you can't fake it. All this stuff is costly It takes time to think about other people it takes time to think about What you can do it takes time to write an email of introduction takes time to make a call It takes time to love your wife and to wash the dishes and rub her back It takes time to play with your children.

All this stuff takes time You cannot fake it, but if you look at people and you watch their trajectory of success There are some very simple habits and practices and those who do them consistently It's costly but over time the trajectory of their lives is very very different exactly.

Yeah, so Art of charm. What do you talk about? Who's it a good fit for go over your courses kind of your social this this course that you just develop It's not the only thing that you guys are doing. It's not yet social capital is brand new It's about exactly what we just discussed networking relationship development How to create strong networks around you digging that well before you're thirsty, etc We also teach the the skill sets of like body language nonverbal communication How to get people to trust and like you we have our live programs in LA So right now guys flying from all over the world.

So we have guys literally this week from like Denmark Germany the you all over the US and Canada and like a dude from Israel which you know It's super far and even Australia and that's this this month Not just this week and we do them every week in Los Angeles They're sold out a few months in advance and guys come in for five days They live at the school during this period of time We change the way you sit stand walk talk how you network how you develop relationships how you talk with people Everything from like your eye contact to the way that you interact with others follow up communication Very nuanced personal stuff like we videotape you interacting with people and we're like see how you're leaning in like that Okay, we want a little bit less intensity.

We want to add some humor here. Here's how you do that And other people it's the opposite right other people were like, whoa, whoa Whoa, you need to get in there and you know, right be less crazy because you're scaring everybody So we really tailor it we really tweak it and classes are really small And that's that's also the info for that is at the art of charm calm But mostly like you're listening to a podcast right now.

You don't have to buy anything from me You can listen to the art of charm podcast. We've got like I think 431 Episodes right now top-ranked show. I mean you've been doing this for a while and yeah eight and a half years We've been talking about Relationship development. So over you were an overnight success then obviously obviously it was like one day.

I just turn on the microphone and then nine years later Top of iTunes Jordan, thanks for coming on today. I really appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity With social skills as with life practice makes perfect Got a practice You got a practice And you got a practice and you got a practice so start studying and then get to practicing what about y'all but I Even still at this day, even though I practice quite a bit.

I still Constantly feel as though I need to improve my skills and what do the gamers say level up? So check out Jordan's resources check out his podcast Check out his website Get a book on the subject get a book on how to make people like you have reviewed a couple of them on the on The Facebook page or on the YouTube channel how to make people like you in 90 seconds or less They're all basically the same You haven't read how to win friends and influence people go read how to win friends and influence people That's a good place to start and focus on making some simple steps and Then see if things improve for you.

I Wish you great luck and success Thank you all so much for listening. I appreciate each and every one of you who listens to the show I appreciate each and every one of you who shares this show with your friends if you want to do that the best way to do that just tell your friends a search the App Store for radical personal finance and listen every day and Hopefully we'll be able to provide lots of in-depth content to be able to help your friends and help you Clarify your goals chart out a path to financial independence and reach it as quickly as possible while still enjoying the journey Keep trying to figure out what the theme of the show is and I would say that's probably one of the best themes that I've Been able to come up with to clarify what the actual theme is that we talk about every day If you'd like to support the show financially, please go to radical personal finance comm slash patron patron Excuse me, and you can become a patron of our show on patreon radical personal finance comm slash patron the press here in September I'd love to have a total of 250 supporters just simply ask for your help You can support the show with as little as a buck a month or much more lots of changes coming in the future But the basis of everything that I am doing and that I plan to do is you who are patrons of the show That is the fundamental foundation and basis of everything been structured structured the support for the show Intentionally in that way so as to assure myself the minimum numbers of conflicts of interest you support the show directly that means my allegiance and Is directly to you?

So please go to radical personal finance comm slash patron a buck a month makes a big deal when a couple hundred of you Do it a couple thousand of you in the future ten bucks a month is cool I got some bribes there for you at higher levels as well I'll be back with you soon Are you ready to make your next pro basketball football hockey concert or live event unforgettable?

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