Today we talk about building a passion business and specifically, how can you make a living off of video games? Welcome to the Radical Personal Finance Podcast. My name is Joshua Sheets and I'm your host. Thank you so much for being here. I'm back. Had a busy time the last weekend out at Podcast Movement 2015.

I recorded a total of 16 very good interviews while I was out there and today I bring you the first interview with Danny Pena, host of Gamer Tag Radio and one of the first inductees into the podcasting hall of fame. I'm glad to be back with you. Sorry for a few days of delay.

It's been a lot of changes going on in my life. I will share some of those changes with you in coming shows but today I wanted to make sure that I wasn't gone for too long and one of the primary purposes of my going out to podcast movement, in addition to my own personal and professional development, was to record a number of interviews for you and like I said 16 total.

All of them are good. Some of them are excellent and today we're going to kick it off with one that is very good, Danny Pena. And this for me is a really important topic. Let's talk about building a passion business and how things like video games can actually be useful.

Enjoy. Danny welcome to Radical Personal Finance. I appreciate you being with me today. Thanks for inviting me man. This is a pretty cool setup over here. We're here at Podcast Movement and we both live in South Florida so I was going to get with you in South Florida but this worked out great.

I wanted to have you on today to talk about the business of video games. And I'm going to give you a caveat. I am not a video gamer. I'm one of those people who scoffs at video games. And so when I was thinking about somebody who could be a proponent and an advocate of video games, I thought you would be the perfect guy.

So we're going to talk about the business of video games and a little bit about your personal journey. Start off with just a little bit of your background as it relates to the business of video games. For me, I started Internet Radio back in 2001. I had a show called PSO Radio.

It was all about one of my favorite games of all time. It's called Fanny Star Online that came on the Sega Dreamcast. So what I did was I used to get people within the community and we'll talk about issues with the game. We'll review quests because Sega will post a lot of new quests weekly online and stuff and that's how I started.

So I used to record on a cassette player and I convert that into MP3 and I put it up on MP3.com. That's how I started. MP3.com, it was more for music artists. So they have their music there and whoever downloads or streams their content will get paid from MP3.com.

So I was like, "Wait a minute. I could do that but instead of music, talk radio." So I did that and we got a huge following. So my first check was $500 in 2001. So I was like, "Man, I want to start a business out of this." -And what was the check from?

-From them. Just because of the amount of people that were downloading and streaming our content. And I also had CDs of special events that I recorded. People could buy it and have it as a collection. That's how I started with that. So then I got to meet Microsoft, Nintendo throughout the years, networked with them and also Sony.

And I took a break because I was doing the whole music. I used to be a promoter for the music industry in Miami and in New York. So I was doing that for two, three years. And then in 2005, I wasn't happy with that. I was like, "Man, let me do this podcast.

Not podcast but let me do this radio thing." And February 2005, I launched Gamer Tag Radio which now this is our 10th year. So when I started, I wasn't thinking about business, downloads, none of that stuff. I wanted people to hear my content. That's what I was thinking about.

So then iTunes launched podcast on their software and eventually it just became a hit. You know? So... - And fast forward today in 2015, your show is... Tell us about your show now and how it's distributed and how big it is. - Well, this is a great thing. This is our 10th year and this is the biggest year ever for us.

We signed with Play It Network. They're part of CBS Radio. We signed with them a week before our anniversary. That was like a big, huge milestone for us. We had nearly a million downloads for the month of June during E3. That's where we go where we get to see games and products from companies that show us in advance before it comes out.

And we do a lot of interviews, roundtable discussion. We even had a studio booked for the whole week that CBS hooked us up. So we did that. That was like a dream come true, man. I started off with a cheap microphone, built-in mic from a computer. That's how I started recording my show.

And eventually I got money. I started investing on... I was investing more for events. I wanted to attend events and meet people. And that's how we got our name out there. And yeah, eventually now we have pretty good equipment and everything. So we're legit now. - And so what's awesome about this is, in my mind, it's a great example of how taking an interest and focusing on it and pursuing it, not knowing where that would go, ultimately opened up a lot of doors for you.

And at this point, you are pretty well known and a leader in many ways in the video game industry. - Yes. It's crazy because every time I go to an event, people are like, "Man, I listened to your show. Let's take some pictures. Hey, I need some advice. I have a podcast too." It's crazy how time has changed.

Because back then when I started, there was no social media, none of that stuff. And how I got my name out there was I was attending events and going to retail stores. Let's say a big, huge game is coming out. Let's say Grand Theft Auto, Halo, whatever. People are in line.

So I go there with flyers, with my recorder, give flyers to everybody, tell them about the show. "Hey, you want to be part of the show? Tell us why you're buying this game. Why are you so excited?" So that's how I did it. Like that, going to a bunch of stores locally in Miami.

And I started locally and then eventually went to other cities too, like New York, LA, and stuff like that. So, yeah. - So, my understanding is you've been doing the show and you're earning money off of it, but you've been doing this as a side work the entire time.

You've been working doing other work during this whole career, right? - Yeah, I work, my 9 to 5 is Discovery Channel Latin America. I also, a couple years ago, I had a show with them. Same thing about gaming, video-wise for Latin America. So I'll talk in English and they'll translate it to Spanish and Portuguese.

And they had it exclusively on their website. And also, they like TV promos for them, promoting the show. - And did that emerge because they knew you had the video game podcast? - Yes, yes. It's a long story, but I'm going to keep it short about that. I got back from E3 and I was working and they called me, "Hey, Danny, can you go upstairs?

I would like to talk to you." I was like, "This is weird." So I go upstairs and I go to the room. It's a huge conference room where we usually have meetings and stuff. And the VP was there and a bunch of other people. I'm like, "Oh my God, am I getting fired?

What the hell is going on here?" So then we started talking and they started asking me questions about, "What is a podcast? What do you do? Tell us about video games." And they were asking me random questions. I'm like, "This is so weird." So then we finished. They were like, "Oh, we're going to talk to you later.

We're planning some stuff." I'm like, "All right, cool." So I leave and I hear, when I close the door, everybody started clapping like, "Oh man, this is it. This is it." I was like, "What was that about?" So then eventually my friend was telling me, "Yeah, they wanted me to do a show for Discovery." So I did that for a year.

So I was doing that, I was doing the podcast and I was working at the same time. So it was a very stressful year. It was too many things. But I didn't want to let that opportunity go. So I did that for a while. And I also do launch party products for companies too, for video games.

So let's say a big game is coming out. They want our community to try out their game, to give us a budget. We rent a venue. We have a DJ performances. We have TVs everywhere where people could try out the game. And at the same time, we're hyping the crowd, giving away stuff, free systems, free games.

And at the same time, it's free for the public, but we're getting money out of that from video game companies too. So I've been doing that for a couple of years. - Do you have any thoughts of leaving Discovery and just doing the video game? - I get that question all the time.

- It's almost like if you built this foundation and worked for 10 years of this dream business, then many people, the first thing you want to know is why not pursue it? - I love my job. I'm happy with my job. I just feel that it's not the right time.

And the time when I'm ready for that, I'll do it. But I'm happy with my job right now. - So I want to talk about the money in video games because what fascinates me is video games is the perfect archetype for the angry parent yelling at the child saying, "Why are you wasting your time on these video games?" - Which I heard about this with my parents back then when I was a kid.

Many times. Many times. - I mean, my kids are two years old and three months, so they're not playing video games. But I would be one of those parents yelling at a child, "You're not playing video games." - I mean, there's a lot of good things about that. The majority of people know about games as mainstream, like the typical shooting games and stuff like that.

But there's a lot of games that is not mainstream. There's a lot of critical thinking stuff. It's good for the kid. I love Minecraft for the kid because they could create their own stuff, share with their friends and it's friendly too. Like a parent could play with the kids too.

That's the type of games that we like to talk about on our show. - Okay. So there are people who make their full-time living playing video games. - Yes. - How do they do that? - There's different ways. There's pro gamers where they go to tournaments. And one of my friends, this is like a couple years ago, him and his team, they were so good that they had a lot of sponsors that one of their companies that deals with the tournament, MLG, that's their name, they did a contract with them for a million dollars for all four of them.

- Wow. - Because they were so good at that game. Really, really good. So they will travel around the world to compete. Think of it as like MMA. They rock their t-shirts with different names of companies that sponsor them and stuff. That's one way. Another way is of course the podcast or now what's big is live stream and YouTube.

That's like the biggest thing right now for that. And the reason is back then, how we used to get cheat codes and reviews was through magazines or stuff like that, right? There was no internet back then. Now it's easy. Any kid could just go on YouTube, search for a game to see how it is.

If they like it, they'll go and buy it. So at the same time, YouTube have ads and let's say PewDiePie, he's a very popular gamer. - He's the number one YouTube channel in the world, right? - Yeah. I mean, I'm not a huge fan, but I love seeing a gamer doing that type of business because I think he made like almost, I think it was like 7 million in a year.

- That is amazing. - So him posting crazy videos, talking about games at the same time, there's companies that pay them to post their game like through his YouTube channel. And he was also featured on this TV show, the South Park, which they same exact thing. They were talking about the same thing we was doing like a YouTube, but for South Park.

So it opened the doors for him. So there's a lot of different ways to make money from that. But at the same time, I think you should be really, really careful since day one, every time we get something for free or we get paid or anything, we let our community know about that.

Because I don't want our community to feel, I don't want them to feel uncomfortable with something that we're promoting because we say, "Oh, it's great." But it's not. Every time I go to an event that a company fly us to Europe or Canada or any other places, we mention it on our show because we build that trust throughout the years.

Yeah, we're getting money and certain things, but why not mention that to your listeners? So yeah, that's what we do. - What fascinates me about it, in PewDiePie, I was researching one time top YouTube channels like, "Wow, this one." I went and subscribed and I just start looking at these videos roll up in my YouTube subscription sheet.

I'm like, "Why does anybody watch this?" But obviously, for his demographic, the people that enjoy his stuff, he's a star. - Yeah, he's an influencer. So company loves that. That's the reason why Microsoft stayed in touch with me and a lot of other committee members are doing the same through YouTube or live stream because we can influence people.

We could tell people, "Yes, this game is hot. No, this game is not." And they trust us and they will eventually decide based on what we say on our show. So that's why companies contact us all the time, all the time. - So do you, let's say that I'm a 15-year-old gamer and I come to you and I say, "Man, I just love games.

I want to make a career out of this." What kind of advice would you give me in that situation? - What I always tell them is try to attend events like PAX and talk to the independent companies. That's the easy way to get in to meet people and ask some questions.

Or go to a university like Full Sail that's pretty big in South Florida. Well, it's not South Florida. It's in Tampa, I believe. Tampa, Orlando, around the area, which is also a place where they teach about video game design and everything. These are good things. Two of my staff members, former staff members, they should be part of our show.

Because of them attending events and connecting with people within the industry, now they got an opportunity to work for a video game company. That's why they left our podcast. One of them works for Gameloft. Gameloft is one of the biggest mobile app game companies out there around the world.

They're huge for iOS and Android. And another one, his name is Jonathan, he also got a job for EA Sports in Orlando. He was there for a bit. Now he works for a different company, a mobile company now in New York City. The reason why is because networking, attending events, meeting people, and at the same time, learning about the industry too.

I think that will help out big time. It seems just like a great example of how, I don't know how, so the video game industry would be a product of the 80s? That would be? You could say 70s, but it wasn't mainstream. 80s was like the mainstream era, you know, like Atari, ColecoVision, Nintendo, all that stuff.

That's when it became more mainstream. And then around a couple years ago, during, let me see, 2005, that's when, well actually PlayStation, that was a pretty big era too, that helped to push the industry even more to the masses. But then 2005 with Xbox 360, PlayStation, the Nintendo Wii, it became even more mainstream.

And I believe a couple years ago, Call of Duty, I can't remember which game it is, they made so much money, more money than any other entertainment out there. More than movies, more than music, books, everything. Time has changed, man. Time has changed. I know a lot of people, it looks crazy, like really?

A video game? But I'm telling you, it's big, man. These companies spend millions and millions of dollars investing in marketing, developing the game. There's a big team working on it, 500 to 1,000 people. That's a lot of money with this business. So yeah, I mean, time has changed. So… - And what I'm emphasizing is because we live in a new era.

We live in an era where the opportunity is unlimited in almost any industry. But that doesn't mean that it's easy to figure out how to find and attract and engage with those opportunities. - I have a story to tell. - Go for it. - Well, I just remember now, the developer of Minecraft, he started as an independent developer.

He was super popular within PC and consoles and stuff. And he just got tired of working on the game. So he posted on Twitter, "Hey, whoever wants to buy Minecraft, let me know." Guess what happened? On the low, Microsoft contacted him. He sold his company for, I think, it's a billion dollars, maybe more.

He sold it to Microsoft. Now, Microsoft are the owners of Minecraft. So that same developer, he's like, "All right, I'm moving out." So he was trying to buy a house in LA. And Jay-Z and Beyonce were also trying to buy that same house. Guess who won the bid? He did.

A gamer. A gamer beat one of the biggest music artists out there, Jay-Z and Beyonce. And all that was because of games. - Wow. Incredible. - Crazy. - And it shows me just how, if people are the type... If you take something and if you focus on it and you build on it, so let's say you have a history, I'm a gamer, and you do something with it.

Because the trouble in my mind is navigating between this. Gaming... Feel free to disagree with that. I'll make this a statement. You tell me if I'm right or wrong. Gaming can be an incredibly destructive influence in your life. If it takes over your life and you do nothing with it, and you get obsessed with these certain games now for the rest of your life, that's what you're doing.

And you don't do anything with it. But the same can be said with anything. Anything can be destructive if it gets out of bounds. But you can also take something that is a hobby, a passion, an enjoyment, an entertainment, and you can say, "Okay, I'm recognizing that I'm engaged with this.

How can I leverage this and get involved with other people? How can I make a contribution?" And that can lead to benefits for your life. So it's a good example in my mind of saying, "Here's something that many parents have told their kids, 'You're never going to get a job if you're spending all your time playing video games.'" And there's a bunch of kids saying, "Look, Mom, I got a job." But see, it all depends on the parent.

Because I've been playing games... My grandmother was the one that bought me my first video game console, the Atari 2600, back in the '80s. And I became addicted to games. But at the same time, my mom and my dad were always focused on me going to school, go outside, have a life.

It all depends on the parent. Too much of anything is not good. You can't blame games for violence or all this stuff because Japan, Europe, Canada, there's other countries that listen to the same music, watch the same movies, they play the same games as us, and their crime rate is super, super low compared to the United States.

To me, in my opinion, it all depends on the parents. You should control the kids. If they're playing too much, tell them, "That's it. Enough. Take a break." Because I've seen situations of parents that, "Oh, they're just playing a game." Or they'll go to the store and buy a mature game for a 12-year-old.

I'm so against that. That's not right. Why do that? Do your research before you buy these games for your kids. I think parents should do more research on that instead of just, "Oh, it's just a video game. It's for kids." Tal: If you were parenting, let's just say, a 12- to 15-year-old boy or girl, and you're noticing an interest, an interest of video games, but you're concerned also about just their long-term career and life prospects, what would be some of the advice that you would give as a parent to your child in that situation to help them explore their interest in a way that might lead to a productive career?

Leo: Start with critical thinking games. I think that will help your kid to come up with some amazing ideas that maybe eventually, once they get older, they might do the same thing with that. Like I said, Minecraft, puzzle games like Tetris, something simple like that. The things that people could create on those type of games is amazing.

My niece, she's almost two. She grabs her mom's phone, and she already knows which app it is for her games. She knows what to do. A dog will come out and bark and hide, and she has to go and find the dog within the screen. Little things like that.

Kids, nowadays, are more advanced than when we were kids. Technology is changing. Do research on that. What is the next big thing that's going to help my kid for them once they get older, and it will help them with school? Because I love puzzles. I love critical thinking things.

And also, there's even role-playing games. There's a lot of reading, too. That helps out. But if you go into a store and just buy Grand Theft Auto or Madden, to me, that's more entertainment for an older crowd, not for a young kid. In the industry, if you were looking...

So for me, if I were a parent, and I am a parent, if I were in that situation, I would be looking and saying, "How can I train my child not to be a consumer, but to be a producer?" And so, in that sense, I would be looking... I'll tell you a couple of games.

Go for it. Little Big Planet is for PlayStation. It's for anybody. Family, young and old. They're also an area in the game. It's a feature where people could create content, all type of games within the world of Little Big Planet. They upload it for the world. So when you go to that section, it's called Community, you see which one is the most popular, which one is the most rated.

That's cool because people are creating their own game. There's another one, too, for Microsoft. It's called Sparkle... Oh my God, something project. Sparkle... Oh my God, I can't remember. I apologize. That's another one, too, that's pretty good for the Xbox One, where people could create their own games and stuff.

I think that's amazing. I don't have the patience to create my own stuff, but I love going online and downloading that type of content. There's always going to be new stuff from people that are young and old creating for the community. I think that's the type of things that you should get for your kid.

Let's say, what do you have, a PC? Do you plan to get a console or no? No. No? Or even on the phone. Everybody has a smartphone. There's apps that is for that, too. I'll tell you, I struggle with this. I'm a weirdo. I don't have a TV. That's fine.

I have a computer. I don't have any gaming console. That's fine. I have a computer, but I don't have a game on it. There's not a single game on my cell phone. PC or Mac? PC. Okay. My wife and I talk a lot about how we're going to help our children integrate with technology.

It annoys me intensely how many parents use the phone, primarily a phone or iPad, as a way to babysit their kids. And so, I can't stand it. But on the other hand, I look at it from a perspective and I say, recognizing that my children's peers are growing up as your niece, we're at two years old, she knows how to get mom's phone and play this game.

And she's also really active. Her mom takes her out. She's not always 24/7 on the phone. And that's like I said before, it all depends on the parents. So you're doing the right way with your kids. There are some values for me that are important. So a simple thing like conversation.

So I work very hard not to be on my phone if I'm with my children. There are obviously times where if I'm at a point where this is when I need to spend a few minutes doing something, then I need to do that. But if I'm with my family, I'm not going to be checking my phone.

I'm not going to be on voice mail. I don't want that because in my mind, the higher value is the social engagement. And I don't want my wife to feel like here I am staring at my phone. That doesn't do good for my marriage. I find that very disrespectful when people do that.

So I also feel when I look at teaching children, for example, I don't want to give my son a phone and say, "Okay, here, mommy and daddy are going to talk with our friends. You can be on your phone." Rather, I want to teach my son to engage with us and to listen.

And he's doing a great job. He's to the point where he can sit and he's not listening, obviously, and engaging with the conversation yet, but he can sit quietly. And that's the skill that I want to teach, the social skills. And so in my mind, I see I'm one of those pretty hardcore.

I'm a scoffer at video games. I'm a critic of video games. I just say, "What is the point of why would I waste my life with these things?" But I'm also trying to learn to vet to- To find a value from that. Yeah, and to consider that because I don't want to just be the person who just dismisses things out of hand.

I want to consider the subject, which is why I brought you on. And also, with my children, I recognize the benefits of it. And I get concerned about people's ability to maintain long-form linear thought. So I've found even over the last 10 years, my ability to concentrate and focus has plummeted from when I could sit and read books without even getting distracted.

And now, it's constantly another distraction. So I'm looking at my son and I'm thinking, "How do I train him to be able to focus and to be able to concentrate? And are these influences positive or are they negative or are they neutral?" And it's how we benefit him. And I don't know the answers.

I blame the media, man. Honestly, I blame the media because they always promote the negative part of gaming. Those mainstream games, where are the independent games? Where's the success story about Minecraft? I learned about that because within the community and the news outlets within the gaming world. It's like- Times have changed.

It's like those old school people that have their own show on the radio. When they look at us, we're doing this digitally and they're like, "Ah, whatever, podcasts." Like, "Harmon Stern, you can't make money with podcasts." And yes, there is a way to make money. I feel that you should give it a chance with the whole gaming stuff.

Try it out. Do research and find the right games that will be perfect for your kids. Don't worry about the popular ones. Look for those hidden gems out there that's created by an independent developer. At the same time, critical thinking games. Honestly, it's so, so important. There's even research that say that it's good for kids to play games because of those puzzles.

And then it used to be harder for me when I was a kid because those games you couldn't save. I had to leave my Nintendo on because once I turn it off, I have to go and start from scratch. Nowadays, because of technology, now I could save it, pause it, play a month later.

So technology is changing. Do the research and I think you should give it a chance for your kids. And this came to me as you were talking. It's not like I've never played games. When I was younger, we had Flight Simulator. We enjoyed that. I got into at one point this motorcycle game called Full Throttle.

And it was a PC game and it was interesting. The character was going around and you had to figure out all these clues and solve the puzzles and I really enjoyed that. And also for a time, I enjoyed playing Age of Empires. - Age of Empires, that's a big one.

- That one I really enjoyed. That appealed to me and it's just kind of cool. - So you were already older and everything, right? - Yeah, this is probably middle school age and we had a computer. We didn't ever have any gaming consoles but we had a computer and so we would play some computer games from time.

- I tell you this. I met my staff members because of gaming. We were playing on Xbox Live online throughout different games and that's how I met them. I met all my listeners was through playing online with other games or meeting them in person and stuff. Now, I totally forgot what I was going to say.

- I'll give you another thing to jump on. But I see the benefits of games and if you look at the research, so the military is using games to train soldiers and different people to train things. And so I look at it from the perspective of finance and I've played board games.

Robert Kiyosaki has a board game called Cashflow Quadrant. It's games like Monopoly. These are board games that teach important aspects of finance. And so I've been thinking, okay, is there a way that we could integrate and I could teach one of the ideas on my someday maybe list is could I create a video game that was interesting to play that taught financial independence as a way to actually convey those things.

- I remember what I was going to say but let me go with this because you just mentioned that. Back in the 90s, there was this game called Sim City. I was so addicted to that game. And it was, okay, you are a mayor of the city and you have to build the city and you got to make sure that you have enough money to continue work on other things in the city.

So eventually there's going to be like fire, so you got to make sure you have like a fire department close to the area where that happened. There's going to be another area that's a lot of crime. Okay, let me see if I have enough money. Okay, I could build a police station right here.

Things like that. And at the same time, you learn how to balance the money. You got to make sure that people are happy with their jobs within the game too. Like, it's a lot of things. - So it's population control. - Yeah, but it's cool. It's cool. And you know what?

I feel like destroying an area to save money, you can do it in a game like that. So yeah, it's a very old school Super Nintendo game. I think that was also for PC. It's called Sim City. Very cool. Oh, another thing too is that the reason why I like gaming so much, there's been times in the past that I used to be bullied when I was a kid, you know how it is in school and stuff.

But when I get home and I start playing, it released my stress. And I feel that a lot of listeners, they feel the same way too. The stress with work, with school. And they'll go and listen to our show, and we're entertaining them. And at the same time, we're changing their lives.

One kid, a foster kid, got an email that she discovered our show, and she loved it so much. She was like, "Wow, I didn't know there was a video game podcast." She loved it so much. Now, she wants to be a video game designer. Stories like that makes me so happy, because you never know who's listening.

You're changing people's lives out there. So yeah. If you were speaking to parents who were saying, "Okay, I'm looking for a way, a challenge a lot of parents have is how do I connect with my kids?" It's very easy for parents to feel disconnected from their kids. Their kids have the headset on, playing on Xbox Live, and mom and dad are saying, "I want to play with them too." What would be some advice you have?

Are there certain games that they would enjoy together? There's so many. There's so many, because there's games that I know is for me. And there's games that I love to play with my girlfriend. She's a casual gamer, but when she plays, she's like, "Let's focus. Let's do this." But at the same time, what happens if you have your family over?

Play karaoke. There's a rock band. Everybody has an instrument. Piano, drums, guitar, bass, karaoke too. There's different games where everybody could play. Also, let's say a father, son, wants to get together and play the Lego games. Beautiful, beautiful, and it's so much fun. There's Marvel Lego. There's Star Wars.

There's different type of games that it's perfect to play multiplayer and you will work together past bosses and all that stuff. Those are the games I truly, truly recommend to play with your family. Final question. I just finished a book called You Only Have to Be Right Once. In that book, it was talking about the guy who invented or who collaborated with others to build the virtual reality headset.

Oculus. Oculus Prime. Yeah. Oculus. The VR. Oculus Rift. Yeah. Right? Oculus Rift. Isn't that the name of the VR? Yes. Have you had a chance to engage with that? No. My staff had and they love it. They love it. There's so many of those right now from different companies.

There's Oculus, which Facebook purchased them. They started as a Kickstarter company. It's an amazing story. You see what I'm saying? I just heard the story. That was one of the things. I just finished that as we record this. It's the end of July. I just finished that book last week.

That story stood out to me because it demonstrated what I see as the amazing potential future careers that are there. The story was, I can't remember if he was in a school or if he was educated at home. I think he was educated at home. He enjoyed video games and he enjoyed tinkering with things.

He got interested in virtual reality. He started buying all these headsets and things on eBay from '80s and '90s and cobbling them together. Then he got engaged with a ... He also was participating in some message boards online sharing some of his ideas. He was part of a community.

He was cobbling together hardware. He did a couple of Kickstarters, which funded some of the things. He got connected to somebody at a big video game company because of his involvement in a message board. He had sent over a prototype. These people were interacting. Here's this 19-year-old young man who is engaged with the leaders, the chief game designers at Sony and these different places like that.

It just blows the old paradigm of build a resume and send your resume out after a college degree. It blows that out of the water. For people that are creators, there's no barrier between the head of games at Sony and that. Then, yeah, he wound up selling it to, I guess, Facebook for over a billion.

-Why do you think Facebook bought that? It wasn't because of Only Games. They could use that as, "Hey, watch a movie. Have a video chat with your family. Go check out the house." Long distance communication. There's so many different reasons why they bought that. They see the potential of this, more than just gaming.

I'm excited and curious to see because there's so many other companies doing it too. Valve, they're releasing their VR this holiday. Oculus, they're releasing theirs, I believe, sometime spring of next year. Sony, they have another one called Morpheus, which I believe is coming out 2016 or 2017. Microsoft, they have one called HoloLens, which is also pretty cool.

Really, really cool. -It's exciting. -It's exciting. I'm telling you, one person changed the game, then everybody, "Okay, we got to make it better." I'm excited for that. Competition is good. -Well, Danny, I've loved hearing your story. I'm excited for your future. It's just exciting. Anytime I've seen you talk about games, I've just watched your eyes light up.

-I get excited. -It's obvious. Your eyes light up, your whole body gets into it. I just think it's an amazing world that we live in where you can be involved in this as an industry. -We met at the meetup. -Podcasts on Florida meetup. When I mentioned that it was a video game podcast, people were like, "Really?

A gamer?" But when I start talking about my story, how I started, and I started small and then eventually now we're big, huge, it's crazy. It doesn't matter what type of content it is. If you do it the right way, unique and different that gets people's attention, your product, your podcast, whatever it is, is going to get attention and get a lot of support.

You could also start a business after that. So you never know. You never know what could happen. All I'm saying is be patient and just keep on working. -That's what I thought in your presentation, both as a compliment to you and also to make the point that you made in the presentation that you presented to our local group.

You emphasized a couple of things that were very important. Number one, you ignored the get big quick. -You know where the... -Yeah, you ignored that nonsense. You ignored the get big quick mindset and you demonstrated it. It's been 10 years you've been doing this thing. Your show is a weekly show?

-Weekly show. -Yeah, for 10 years you've been doing that. -And I mean we have breaks here and there, but this year we haven't had no break. And this has been the biggest year. Tonight I'm getting inducted to the Podcast Hall of Fame. I wasn't expecting that. When they told me the news, I was in shock because they put me with Adam Curry, Leo Laporte, Todd Cochran.

It's crazy. So that's why I always tell people, "Look, I'm not nothing special. If I could do this, you guys could do the same thing too. Stop following trends. You start the trend. Be a leader." And we'll see what happens because once the doors open for one person, I feel that's going to help everybody.

We got to contribute to make this space even more mainstream, more popular. Don't follow the ones that have been successful. Don't copy them. Why not do something? Be influenced by them. That's cool. But do something different. Make it better. Be better than me. Every time I do a panel or one of those speaking stuff, I always mention that to people.

I want to be excited about it. I still feel like the same person from 2001 when I started the whole working, meeting people, super excited. So yeah, be better than me and make this thing exciting. When I see Mark Maron entering the President Obama, even if you don't agree with Obama or not, that is opening doors for a lot of things.

Glenn Beck was going to be here for Podcast Movement. I'm not a fan of his, but I was like, "You know what? I'm going to go and see what he has to say about what he's been doing with this thing." So the more we see people contributing, doing things that's going to help everybody, the space is going to grow and we're going to get more listeners.

So keep doing your thing. And the other thing is what shines through. Your number one loyalty is to your audience. That shines through in everything. More than anything. More than money. More than anything. Because look, money comes and goes. Your community is going to stick with you to the end.

It's that simple. I built this organically. Our listeners, as a matter of fact, today I invited them. We're going to have a little meet up. Maybe like 10 to 15 people coming locally from Dallas, Fort Worth. And I want them to walk with me to the red carpet. And the reason why is because I got here because of them and I want them to feel that they're also part of our journey.

So when I go on stage, I'm going to thank them 100%. You guys are the ones that inspired me to continue. And I love getting emails and voicemails from people, man. From all over the world. People in the military in Japan or a listener called us from Australia. He's like, "Look, I don't care how much I have to pay.

I just want to be part of this show." Kids young and old. Even parents saying, "Look, I love the show. I love listening to the show with my kid because you guys don't curse and it's very entertaining." Little things like that makes me want to continue to do my thing.

And yeah, I'm happy with the money that we've been getting. It's cool. But that to me is more powerful. It's special to me. So I'm not going to take away from what you said by saying anything more than thank you for coming on, Danny. But thanks a lot. I had a blast.

This is a great conversation, man. High five. So now if anybody ever tells you that you can't make a living playing video games, you now have a podcast interview to send to them. Although I didn't ask Danny how much money he's making from the podcast and he didn't feel it necessary to share.

But he is splitting whatever revenues there are of the show with a team of four. So recognize that. He is still working. But focus. Notice just what an awesome opportunity he had by simply pursuing something that he was interested in and then becoming involved. He got involved in the industry.

He got involved in as a commentator. He got connected. And that's opened up some really incredible doors for him. It sounds to me like he's enjoyed every minute and he deserves the success. Notice 10 years of hard work to arrive where he's at now. But I believe his future will be bigger than his past.

Use it as an example for you. Is there an industry that you are really into? Is there a game? Is there a community? If not, start one. Start a community. If there is a community, get it involved. Become a leader. Start the podcast. Start the blog. Start the YouTube channel.

Go to the conference. Meet people in person. Start the local meetup group. Do something. Edit the industry magazine. Do something to get involved and you never know where things can turn out. Not everything has to be all about the money and there are some pretty cool options and things that can open up for you regardless of really what you're doing.

Thank each and every one of you for listening today. Thank you especially to the patrons because of being able to count on your specific financial support that that's why I was able to even go to this conference and I thank you for that. If you're not a patron, consider becoming one.

I would greatly appreciate it. You can support the show directly. Go to RadicalPersonalFinance.com/patron for all the details, all the bribes that I've got set up for you. RadicalPersonalFinance.com/patron. More interviews coming in the future. I did some in-depth financial interviews. I did some interesting career interviews. This one is kind of more of just a fun one.

Talk about video games. Who doesn't want to talk about video games? I figure that's one of the massive aspects of audience I decided to start with the topic that I thought you all would enjoy listening. Be back with you soon. Thank you so much. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)