Struggling with your electric bill? Get an energy assist from SDG&E and SAFE. You may qualify for an 18% discount. Visit sdge.com/fera to find out more. Radical Personal Finance podcast live today from the country financial stage in downtown New Orleans, Louisiana at FinCon 2014. Welcome to the Radical Personal Finance podcast.

My name is Joshua Sheets and I'm your host. Thank you for being here. Today's show is a little bit different. I'm looking out at a crowded lobby full of people. Never done this before. Gonna do some live podcasting talking about how should I set up a plan for personal financial education.

Hope you enjoy it. It's kind of interesting to be here in downtown New Orleans, Louisiana. It's kind of interesting, kind of weird to be looking at a crowd of faces of people looking at me. Never had the opportunity to do that before. But it should be a fun show.

Today I'm gonna handle a question from a listener. I knew that I was gonna be doing a show here in front of a room full of people that are interested, have an above average interest in personal finance. And as I thought about what would be interesting, I thought of a question that I received from an audience member named Jeff who had sent me an email.

And Jeff had emailed me a question and he said, "Joshua, I've been listening to your podcast ever since I found them a few weeks ago. Here's my question. Do you think that I should pursue earning a financial planning or retirement planning certificate just for the sake of learning? I have no interest in becoming a financial or retirement planner, but have been learning as much as I can for the last few years, books, podcasts, blogs, Boglehead forums, et cetera.

I've learned a lot about investing, retirement planning, tax planning, estate planning, personal finance, et cetera. I guess I don't know what I don't know. What should I consider when deciding whether or not to earn a certification? Thanks, Jeff." And when Jeff sent me that email, I just started thinking about it and I thought, what an intelligent question.

And it covers some things that I personally am a huge fan of. Because A, it's financial education. I guess I should say A, it's finance, and B, it's education. I know that I personally am not moderately obsessed with education. It also covers something that I'm probably -- I hate to beat my own drum, but I probably am uniquely qualified to talk about and share with people.

If you're not familiar, I think I have CFP, CLU, CHFC, CASL, CAP, RHU, REBC. So I've gone through seven courses of study for financial certifications and financial designations and I'm actually this next week going up to Pennsylvania to finish a master's degree in financial planning. So I've had the unique opportunity to kind of see both sides and talk about both sides of the fence to understand, you know, really what really works and what doesn't work.

I'm also a former personal finance junkie, so I can really relate with what Jeff talks about and I can relate with his question. Because one of the biggest things that I've learned, I learned when I became a financial advisor, is that the personal finance world got me really far, but there was an entirely different level that I never would have had a peek into if I hadn't had the opportunity to study financial planning formally.

So before I get into specifics in answer to Jeff's question, what I'd like to do is just start with just some conversation about education. And where I would begin is basically to start with why would you do anything? Why would you set out on a path of education or certification?

The reality is, is that we really do have a limited amount of time. And for every choice that we choose to make, there is an opportunity cost. And the opportunity cost is what we give up. So if you're going to spend your time studying financial planning education, you're going to spend your time studying, you know, CFP curriculum or CFA curriculum or whatever it is that you're doing, that means that that's time you're not spending on other things.

And you've really got to, before you commit that time, before you commit time to reading a book, before you commit time to anything like that, you really got to understand why you're doing it. One of the first things, there's a great classic book by a guy named Mortimer Adler, who was actually the chief editor for the, not Wikipedia, the Encyclopedia Britannica encyclopedia for years.

And he wrote a phenomenal book called How to Read a Book. And I'm going off the top of my head from having read the book probably, I don't know, 15 years ago. So correct me if I'm wrong. But basically where he started with is anytime you're going to read a book, start with saying, what is my actual purpose for reading the book?

What do I want to get out of it? And that will help you to guide your reading. It's unlikely that if you're reading a novel that you're going to sit there with a highlighter in hand, with an index card and a notebook to record important points. But if you're reading a textbook, you're probably not going to be reading it kicked back on your, on a pillow with your knees in the air.

So the first thing I would start with in answer to your question, Jeff, is do you want an education or do you want a certification? And there's a major difference. I think of certification as being external proof for people who don't have knowledge in a subject matter. And here's what I mean.

What's the point of college certification? Is it about education or is it about certification? Now, I think it probably originally began with being about education. But in today's world, it's much more a form of certification. And it's basically the whole college collegiate study system that we have is a form of distributed trust.

So if you are in a general studies degree, then if an employer says college degree required, they're basically trying to pass on some amount of their trust from themselves over to the college organization. And it's a form of distributed trust. And they're hoping that if you've been able to succeed at getting your college degree, that you have a certain basic level of knowledge and a certain basic level of commitment.

So you're the kind of person that they would be likely to hire. Or if you have a college degree, maybe in a more technical subject, so something like engineering, maybe you have an engineering degree. Well, in that situation, then there is a basic course of study. And the college degree certifies that you've completed the basic level of study.

Another good example of a distributed trust system would be the credit scoring system. So if you look in the United States and most Western economies, we have a fairly established form of credit monitoring and credit reporting. And so what that actually does for people is that offers for them the opportunity to not have to know the debtor firsthand.

And that can be a real benefit because then you don't have to only borrow money from people that know you. You can have a much bigger system where you can borrow money from a credit card company on the other side of the country or from a mortgage company on this side of the country.

And there's this system to where basically of certification that this person is a good debtor, this person is a worthy loan. Certification is valuable. Even in -- so let's go into the financial world. What function do certification programs serve in the financial world? And there are dozens of them.

And we'll come to that in just a moment as far as talking more. But there are dozens and dozens of credentials and designations and things that you could pursue. Primarily, in my opinion, certification in the financial world solves two basic problems. Number one is it solves -- it indicates a basic level of competence for financial people.

So if you don't know somebody, if you don't know a financial advisor and you're sitting there talking on an initial basis trying to get an idea of whether or not they're going to be able to serve you in some way, then if they have a basic certification, then that gives you, okay, this person should be at least somewhat competent.

Now, it doesn't actually -- it doesn't actually mean that the most competent people have the most designations. Oftentimes the person with the most designations just simply has a lot of test-taking ability or spent a lot of time studying. There are planners that are worlds better than me who have zero formal designations.

And there are planners that are just amazing because they have knowledge. But you have to know them. Or you have to trust a professional that refers you to them in order for you to -- in order for you to be confident that in their abilities without that external certification.

The second function that certification basically provides in the financial planning world is it provides a function, a course of study. It outlines a course of study for a new person who's interested. And this is basically what you are -- what you are focusing on. So if you were -- if you told me in your e-mail, you said, Joshua, you know, I really love finance.

And I really want to help people. I want to just do some part-time financial planning. Then in that situation I would say, yes, definitely pursue a certification. But what you described is not that. You described wanting education. And education is not something that you can buy. It's one of the biggest mistakes.

And I don't want to get into talking about education today but too much. But education is not something you buy. Education is something that you basically have to do for yourself, hopefully with the help of good teachers and good materials. Education is for you. Certification is for other people.

So I would say start with your goals. You know, frankly, if you're that interested in personal finance, if you don't want to practice in the area, if you're that interested in personal finance, even with your interest level, it's going to be far more efficient for you to simply hire somebody if you have a question, hire someone to do the work for you in most in-depth financial planning questions.

If you consider the amount of time and the amount of work it is to really develop the knowledge, it's far cheaper for you to pay someone 400 bucks an hour, hire a good planner and be done with it. But in order to be able to effectively hire that person and to be able to ask good questions, you're going to need that base of knowledge.

So are you trying to become a knowledgeable person or are you trying to improve your situation? One of the problems with financial planning education is financial planning education, the formal degree program. I don't know which one to really focus on, but let's pick CFP. CFP is probably one of the more popular designations.

The CFP board and the American College always fight with each other over who's got the better designation, whether you're going to do CFP or CHFC. And it's this battle that goes on. It's a stupid battle. But anyway, it is a battle that goes on. Let's use CFP. The problem with the CFP curriculum is none of it is tailored to you.

It's much more designed to be an available course of study to help somebody basically help clients. You would probably be far better served to look at your situation and say, where are my skills and where is my knowledge base weak? That would be a big focus for me as I would try to start with, what am I actually trying to do?

And so if you have a need that you're trying to fulfill, then set out an educational plan for yourself. And the problem is that we're not really trained in this way. In the schooling system, what we're trained to do is just simply to expect that education is something that happens to us while we sit in school.

And so we don't know generally how to sit down and design a course of study for ourselves. Because if you've gone through the government schooling system, the course of study that you're going to follow has been outlined for you all the way through already. But I would start with simply saying, what is my desired outcome?

What need am I trying to fulfill? Because then once you address that need, then you can start and you can build out a plan for yourself that's going to address that need. So I'll give you some examples. I'm pretty much sick and tired of studying financial planning stuff. Done with it, been there, done that, too much.

I'm tired of it. After next week, I'm not going to read any financial planning books for a while. But there are some things that I'm really focusing hard on increasing my education in. So for example, right now I have a one-year-old son and I am really, really interested in education because I'm feeling the responsibility heavily to provide for his education.

And so I've been thinking a lot about the theory, researching a lot about the history, about theories, about different approaches, looking at people who are doing it, who are looking at doing it well, looking at people who have results that I admire. And I've been reading a lot about education.

But I don't -- I'm not going to waste the time to go out and pursue a teaching certificate. That has no value to me. I'm more interested in just a generalized knowledge and then a specific knowledge in the things that I'm into. Other things I'm really interested in right now, I'm interested in sustainable design and permaculture.

I'm interested in architecture. So I've been reading some books on architecture. I'm really interested in communication. I've been working hard at my communication skills to really be able to enhance the podcast, to be able to be more clear, more direct, to be a better communicator. So I've been reading a lot on that, studying that, practicing, trying new things to learn in that.

But again, that applies to my job. Probably the best example that I could give you is I'm interested right now in the field of law. Now, I have no desire ever to practice law. It seems to me like that is not a business that I would want to practice in.

But I'm really interested in understanding more about it because it governs our entire lives. I'm interested in the theory. What is the moral foundation for laws? What is the background? What is the theory? How does the legal system work? And so I've sketched out for myself a rudimentary kind of self-education plan, which basically is a bunch of books that I've seen, a bunch of different textbooks.

And I don't know when I'm going to get around to working through these things. I got way more balls in the air than I can actually handle. But working through just this long history of options all around the field of law. But it's specifically about things I'm interested in.

So I'm far more interested in business law and in international law than I am in something very specific like medical law. I don't have any interest in medical law because it's not just so I'm not going to spend much time reading on things like that. But still, the skill of sitting simply sitting down and saying, what are my goals?

What is the educational program that I'm trying to accomplish? That can be so valuable if you sit down and do that for yourself. So I'd encourage you to start there. In my opinion, trying to get a financial planning designation, trying to sit for the CFP exam to care for your own finance would be similar to the idea of trying to get a medical degree because you're concerned about your kid being sick.

It's a very inefficient way to approach things. It's far more efficient to simply maybe take an emergency first aid class because maybe there would be some life or death situation with a sick child that you would want to know how to stop the bleeding or how to do CPR.

And then to supplement that with simply saying, well, I've got WebMD and I've got a smartphone and I've got a phone to call an emergency professional and have a nurse on the hotline than it would be to say, I'm going to sit down and get a medical degree. It's just very inefficient.

So apply the same exact thing to your own situation is that if you're interested in learning, make sure you're not learning about some course of study that's predicated based upon preparing a financial planner who's going to face hundreds and hundreds of different situations. Design a course of study that actually applies to your situation.

Now, I would learn from the sources of curriculum that you can have. And so here would be what I would caution you against. The resources that you mentioned, whether it's personal finance books or personal finance podcasts or personal, you know, your favorite forum online, that's great. Up to a point.

But the problem is that you are oftentimes not learning from the experts. You're oftentimes learning from your peers. And that has a phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal value because you can follow the path of somebody else. So if you're working your way out of debt, one of the most powerful voices in your life may be somebody else who's working their way out of debt or who has some encouragement for you.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that that person is going to be the one to instruct you on advanced estate planning. And so I would recommend to you that you learn from the programs of from the degree programs that somebody has laid out already. Now, there's a big difference between different designations.

And I actually I have a beef to pick with the financial industry because there are hundreds, hundreds of various designations that you can pursue. There are so many of them. It is it's obnoxious. Now, I personally think they all should be certainly allowed to exist. I am not calling for any kind of rules or any kind of legislation that would govern that.

I think let the market sort it out. But there is a huge difference between somebody who is a CFA, a chartered financial analyst, versus somebody who is I don't even know what to use. I guess I'll use a CLTC, certified in long term care planning. CLTC, that was the first designation I ever got.

Two days, two days of class, really valuable on a very narrow subject. CFA, you have to commit years of your life to studying for it. So you would have to start with what degree to actually use to design your course of curriculum. I would probably take a look at the CFP degree or excuse me, the CFP designation.

And I would take a look at the educational sections for it. But I would pick and choose what parts of the books I actually read. Probably the most helpful thing for me that I've studied has actually been the MSFS program I'm just finishing up. And the curriculum, if I could list out all the books, I'm not going to do that.

But if I could list out all the books and you go buy those books, I mean, they're so, so valuable. But don't just start with the CFP. I mean, give an example. If you're going to sit for the CFP exam, you've got to know estate planning. And I pick on that because it's the thing that intimidates people the most.

So you've got to be able to intelligently discuss the difference between a grat and a crat and a crut and a clat and a clut and all of this nonsense. That has zero value to you in your daily life, unless you're a multi-billionaire, in which case you're far better served to simply help somebody else and hire somebody else to do it for you.

There's no reason for you to spend all the time necessary to grasp the ins and outs of it. I wouldn't even trust myself if I were planning my own estate. I would hire a team of attorneys who works in that every day, because even though I had the general knowledge, I would never do that.

I would never set it up myself. And so unless you practice in something day after day after day, you cannot possibly get good enough at it for it to make a difference. Now, there are some huge benefits to following a curriculum. So one example I'll use is one of the biggest benefits would be if you followed a curriculum is that you would have a comprehensive survey, which is kind of what I heard in your question.

You would have a comprehensive survey of a subject matter that you'd be able to sit down and say, "You know what? This is somebody who's an expert. They've sat down, they've designed this course of knowledge. They've laid out the six or eight or 28 different topics that they think would be of value to somebody in this situation.

They have surveyed the marketplace and chosen the best books." And so you would get a very broad view of the marketplace. And that can be incredibly helpful, because then you can make sure, "Okay, I'm not missing anything there." Another huge benefit to at least reviewing the curriculum is I would say, "Look for the more academic books." So for example, you mentioned the Bogoheads Forum.

Bogoheads Forum is an awesome forum, one of the most knowledgeable. I'm not registered in the forum. I don't spend much time there, but from time to time, I do wind up in there taking a look. And some of the most knowledgeable, well-intentioned, well-meaning people online. But you're going to get one specific point of view.

And I may tick some people off, but it's rare that you're going to find a participant in that forum who's going to be able to effectively give all of the arguments against their point of view. So one of the benefits that you might look for is switch your reading from the books that have a specific agenda to some of the textbook approach, where they more...

What would be the right way to say it? Where they more broadly lay out the situation, where they more accurately represent the pros and cons, without necessarily trying to lead you in an agenda. Now, I don't think that necessarily reading textbooks is the best way to do it. Textbooks have their place.

I have a love-hate relationship with textbooks. It seems like in many subjects to me, some of the worst inventions ever made. That there are so many other ways that would be better for people to study and to learn than through the use of a textbook. But for some subjects, especially for a technical subject, it can be incredibly valuable for you to have a textbook that is written by an expert who is laying out an entire course of study.

If you want to go a little bit deeper with personal finance, I wouldn't start at Barnes & Noble. This is one of the most actionable things that I could give you. Don't start at Barnes & Noble. The problem is that when you are getting your books from a source like that, you're getting a more mainstream approach.

It's going to more appeal to a mainstream audience. So you get maybe some awesome personal finance books, but it sounds like you're a little bit beyond that. I would, I'll give you two of my secrets. Number one is I would check out, I particularly like John Wiley Publishers. So if you spend some time, if you want to get some deeper books, A, you got to get some more expensive books, and I would check out some of the publishers' websites.

Sometimes you can find publishers that specialize in a certain area, and I'm sure there are other good ones. I've always just had good luck with reading off of John Wiley Publishers since I've found they published a few that I really hugely benefited from. The one that was my favorite was, there's a book called The Fund Industry by Teresa Hamacher and Robert Pozen, I think are the authors.

I don't know if I'm saying their names right. But it is an amazing book. If you want to have a realistic, comprehensive view of how, A, what investment companies are, investment companies commonly called mutual funds, all the different ways that they can be structured, the ins and outs of them, and you want to actually know some details on mutual funds that you will never find on a blog or never find on an article, I would recommend that book.

It's an awesome book, and you'll learn more about the fund industry than you ever dreamed existed. If there's a subject that you're interested in, if you go to the publishers' website, I'll give you some examples. I pulled up in preparation for the show, I pulled up their website, and let me read you a few titles that I found.

So if you're interested in bonds, here's a book, Bond Math, The Theory Behind the Formulas. It's 304 pages, and it goes through all of the details on calculating bonds. Well, that's the type of book, if you're interested in trading your own portfolio, that's the type of book that if you were working on Wall Street on a bond mutual fund, that's the book that you would be studying.

Or here's another book called The Alpha Masters, and Unlocking the Genius of the World's Top Hedge Funds, 272 pages. These books are usually, this one's cheap, it's 20 bucks. A lot of these books are 40, 50, 100 bucks for the book. But if you want to actually read what you would be required to read if you were working in a mutual fund, if you were on a trade desk or something like that, that would be a good place to start.

Another one that I would encourage you, so let's say that you are a committed bogel head, start with a book called Modern Portfolio Theory and Investment Analysis. This is a textbook. Now, it's going to cost you anywhere from 60 to 250 dollars, but you can buy it right from them, and you'll actually understand more of the background behind your investment philosophy than you've ever understood from blogs.

So I would encourage you, if you want to go deeper, go there, but don't waste your time trying to become a medical doctor so that you can accurately diagnose your child's sicknesses. Another resource for you, where I usually send people, if people are interested in information, I send them to, on a specific subject, I send them to a company called NOLO, N-O-L-O, I don't remember what it stands for, but they have some of the most more consumer-friendly books that are actually really well-built for do-it-yourselfers.

And so, they're a good in-between, it's a little bit more detailed than a Money Magazine article, but it's not quite as detailed as having to read a legal brief printed on that onion paper where it's 800 pages about Florida elder law. You can just simply read the NOLO book on retirement planning, or you can read the NOLO book on, what would be a good example, on setting up a living trust, something like that.

I really wouldn't, I can't even imagine that I would spend time building out a certification. The last thing that I think you really got to focus on is what the cost is. So, certifications exist for the benefit of three people. They exist for the benefit of the person pursuing the designation and the certification, whether that's for their knowledge and for their pride.

They also exist for the benefit of the public to have some general idea of somebody's personal ability, and they also exist for the benefit of the organization granting the designation. And the money that's involved that you have to pay simply to be certified, to sit and take the test, it's kind of like the college cartel.

You have to pay the money to the college for them to certify you. It has nothing to do with how much you know. It has everything to do with the fact that you got to pay the fees for them to give you the certification. You could be the most learned person in the world, and you have to pay the money.

It's not until you get to the point of an honorary doctorate, once you're at that level, where they'll actually acknowledge, "Okay, this person has education. We'll just simply grant the degree and not make them pay the fee." And that does exist, obviously, in the world of the honorary doctorate.

So I would just simply say save the money on the certification and spend it focusing on the areas of study that are valuable to you. I would encourage you to talk to a professional, and this is one of the things -- I'll share a story with you that seems -- that to me was a good example.

And this would be cheaper and easier -- in my opinion, this would be cheaper and easier. If you're worried just about your own situation, better for you to simply just pay a fee to an expert for a review. And that will save you hours of time and thousands of dollars, rather than trying to do all of your own financial planning approach.

Now, there would be a difference -- let's say that you're focused on investing and you're saying, "I'm focusing on learning to trade my own portfolio." That's different than is financial planning. But your question sounds like very much generalized financial planning. Trading your portfolio and learning the skills, to be able to do that, is a very different scenario.

And in that world, if you're actually actively continually pursuing that, then yes, learning deeply for your own knowledge is going to be incredibly valuable. But I'll give you a story. So when I was working as a financial planner, I met with a lot of people. And when you are working as a financial planner, there are a lot of -- I guess there's a lot of resistance.

Because the job is largely involving sales. There's a lot of resistance from many people to talking to financial advisors. And you see this all the time when people say, "I'm going to go talk to the advisor and see what he's going to sell me." It's a fact of life.

So I was used to experiencing that. And I'm a young planner. I think I've been doing it for about two years at that point in time. And as I'm going out and kind of surveying the marketplace, I'm talking with people and talking with people, and I'm used to kind of having to push through a certain level of resistance in order to get people to meet with me and talk with me.

And one day I went out to a lunch. It was in Palm Beach. There was an organization that met. I can't remember what the name of it was, so I won't butcher it. But it was one of these organizations that was organized where they would have a famous speaker in, somebody from the island.

It happened during the season. And they would have this whole room full of business people all gathered together. And all of them would come together and they would have a lunch. They would have the speaker and a fancy dinner. And this was their social club. And I got invited to it.

And I figured, "Ah, this would be a great networking opportunity. I'll meet a lot of people. Maybe I'll have some potential clients. I'll make some friends." So I went to the lunch. And I loved it because everyone in the room was about -- probably the average age in the room was about 72 plus me.

And that's my kind of crowd. And as I'm there, I sit at the table with this guy. And he finds out that I'm a financial advisor. And he's talking with me. And he says, right out of the blue, after we get to know each other a little bit and kind of have some chit-chat, I don't remember, mid towards the middle or towards the end of the lunch, he asked me, he says, "Hey, listen.

Would you be willing to take a look at my stuff?" And I said to him, "Yeah. Yeah, of course. Absolutely." And I had to -- I think I did probably an okay job of hiding my absolute shock because that was the first time anybody had ever actually wanted to talk to a financial planner.

But I said, "Yes, absolutely." So we set up a time. And he comes into the office. So he walks into the office. And when he gets into the office, he slides a sheet -- he sits down in my office and we chat for a minute. He slides a sheet of paper across the table.

And on the paper, it has his -- just a one-page summary. It has his balance sheet, his cash flow statement, his -- and all of his details and kind of listing out what his goals are, what his desired level of income is, what he has, where it is, how it's invested, things like that.

He's got a listing of his assets. He's got a listing of his insurance policies. And then he just starts telling me, he says, you know, real quick, let me give you a little background on my situation. I'm a widower. I have -- my kids are grown. I live here.

I do this. I do that. This is kind of what my goals are. Here's what I'm trying to lay out for the future. And I sit and talk with him and I review just a couple of things. I look at the paper and I just kind of walk through it in my mind.

I ask him some questions. And we chat for about 20 minutes. And at the end of that 20 minutes, I said to him, I said, you know, I think you're good. There's nothing that I can see that I would recommend that you change or update. And that was a new experience for me.

Because I was so used to working with people who always needed something. I could always find something that was out of whack. And here I'm in a situation where I couldn't find anything that was out of whack. Now, this guy had money. He wasn't -- he wasn't the part of the glittering rich, as Tom Stanley would say.

But he certainly had money. He certainly was financially comfortable. And he left my office. It was about a 40-minute appointment. And then he left my office. And I remember being so stunned just at his situation. At how great things were. And I was so stunned at how he had sought me out for advice.

And it really revealed something to me. Because when I started working and going out and prospecting for clients and calling on people and getting referrals and calling people on the phone and asking them for an appointment, I was scared silly. And I had this idea that, you know, the poor people, the broke people would be the easy ones to talk to.

They would be the ones who would just be desperate for my help. And the rich people would be the hard ones to get to. Because after all, they had all the money. They had all their advisors. Like, they had everything already all squared away and all taken care of.

And it took me a few years. But I learned that it was exactly the opposite. Exactly the opposite. And the most difficult people to get an appointment with were those who most needed my help. Who most needed my advice and my encouragement and my insight. And the richest people, the people that had the most money, they were in many ways the easiest people to get together with.

And yet, they were the ones who least needed my advice. And it took me a while to figure that out. And then I thought, wait a second. Maybe that's maybe there's a correlation there. Now, I don't know if it's causation or correlation. But there was at least a correlation there in my personal experience.

And it really taught me a lesson. Because you never know where you might learn something and you never know what you might have. And I've gone on and I've seen that in other areas of life. It seems to me, I can't prove it to you. But it seems to me that the people who have the most wealth, and we'll stay focused on wealth for a moment.

But the people who are the most successful probably, they're the ones who are always consulting with other people. I would guess that the Fortune 500 CEO is far more likely to have a life coach and a career coach and a speaking coach than is the entry level line worker, the entry level factory worker employed in their own organization.

And I personally think there's a connection there. I personally think there's a correlation that makes a difference. So, I would just encourage you consider, there is a time and a place to be knowledgeable. And that's what the show is about. And I think a podcast format is a really great format to get a good general knowledge, hear a little bit about things to make sure you have a deeper knowledge without hopefully getting as bored as sitting down and reading a textbook.

But I would encourage you that it's probably much more useful to consider hiring somebody and consulting somebody who actually knows what they're doing. Whether that's in health, weight, productivity, speaking, business. Some of the highest performers are the ones who ask for the most help. Now, there are a bunch of ways this can be structured.

And probably there will be a change as time goes on. Probably there will be an unless I mean in the world of financial advice, unless your financial advisor is constantly upgrading their skills, there's probably going to be a need for you to there's just a change. You know, an advisor I think can grow with a client as long as the advisor is growing.

But not all advisors are appropriate for all people. You may need a different level of advice. But the key point is seek out some of that. And that is a far more efficient use of your time than far more efficient use of your time than is trying to do it all yourself.

Now, there are lots of other aspects to it. But you know, a financial planner's education is very different. Because what they're actually looking for is they're looking for somebody who is they need the broad-based knowledge. Because they never know what the next situation is going to be. But if you're not going to practice, I would say don't waste your time.

Don't be a masochist and don't do that to yourself. Stay much more focused and targeted on what you actually need for your life and for your success. So that would be my answer to your question. I hope that's helpful. Just basically in summary, make sure that you're studying things that you actually care about.

Make sure that you're studying something that is actually important to you instead of just what somebody else says should be important to them. So that's my show. Totally new experience. I've never done one of these, having a live audience, having people stare at me while I do it. It's really hard to stay focused the whole way through.

But hey, it's a good growing experience. Get pushed out of my comfort zone. Jeff, I hope that was valuable for you. I'll make sure that you get this episode. Thank you for those of you who have been contacting me while I'm out of the office. Just a reminder, I'll be out of the office all this week and next week.

Be back on the first Monday at the end of September. I will have a lengthy report for you at some point from FinCon. This has been awesome so far. And if any of you are listening to the show while you're here, I thank you for doing that. I really appreciate it and I look forward to talking with everybody.

Have a great day.