Colossians 1, 15-23 is a majestic text. In fact, it's my favorite text in the Bible. But Colossians 1, 20 is notoriously challenging and it has baffled and befuddled Bible interpreters and theologians for many centuries. The question comes in to us today from a listener named Heather. "Hello Pastor John, I have a question about Colossians 1, 20 about Christ reconciling to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

For the unsaved and for the fallen angels, how are they reconciled to Christ? Pastor John, what would you say to Heather?" I just did a look at the book session on this very question recently. So let me see if I can sum up my argument for Heather here on APJ.

It really matters because it's a question about what's commonly called universalism, or the teaching that in the end, everyone, even demons, will be saved. There's no hell, there's no eternal punishment. Sooner or later, even if it takes a thousand years through some kind of purgatorial discipline, everybody gets saved in the end.

That's what some people say this text, this text, Colossians 1, 20, supports. And let me read it. "For in Christ, all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell and through him to reconcile to himself all things, to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross." The question is, when Paul says, "All things, all things will be reconciled to God through Christ," does all things mean every unbeliever who has ever lived, including Satan?

And my answer is no. But rather, all things is a comprehensive term referring to the new heavens and the new earth, where absolutely everything, all things that exist in the new heavens and the new earth will have been reconciled to God through the blood of Christ. But that there is over against that new heavens and new earth an outer darkness, an awayness, an other.

There is a reality excluded from the new creation. There is hell that's outside God's new creation, where impenitent believers and demons suffer justly forever. Now, here are four passages that point me to this understanding of Colossians 1, 20. Number one, 2 Thessalonians 1, 7-9, and these teach me that Paul just doesn't believe in universalism.

"At the second coming, the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might." Now, that passage shows that Paul does not believe all will be saved.

He believes that there will be an eternal destruction for those who disobey the gospel. Paul does not believe that everyone will be reconciled to God. Everyone will not be saved. And he says that they will suffer a punishment away, away from the presence of the Lord and of his glory.

And that points, I think, to what I mean by outside of the new heavens and the new earth. Now, this next text, this is number two, supports that, I think. Matthew 8-11, Jesus says, "Many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into outer darkness," outside the kingdom, away.

"In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." So what Paul calls "away from the Lord's glory," Jesus describes as that place which will be outside of the established kingdom of God at the end, outside of God's saving rule, outside the place where all is reconciled, the place of outer darkness.

Third, remember in Colossians 1-20 that these all things that are going to be reconciled are things on earth and things in heaven. Now, why doesn't Paul say all things under the earth, all things in heaven, all things on earth, all things under the earth? Because he uses those three in Philippians 2-10, where he says, "At the name of Jesus, every knee will bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth." And that phrase is not used in Colossians 1-20.

Now, when he uses it in Philippians 2-10, he's not saying there's universal salvation, but universal submission. Willingly or unwillingly, every knee is going to bow, including the demons under the earth. Could it be, could it be that Paul did not use the phrase "under the earth" in Colossians 1-20 because those under the earth will not be reconciled to God?

They're not part of the all things. They will have to submit, but they will not be reconciled. Now, here's my last text, and a very, very important observation, I think. This is a principled analogy. I'm thinking of Isaiah 66-24. Those are the very last verses of the prophet Isaiah.

And the point of this text is simply to illustrate how careful one has to be in taking a phrase like "all things" and assuming it includes what it does not include. Here's what it says in verse 22. "As the new heavens and the new earth, as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the Lord, so shall your offspring and your name remain," verse 23, "from new moon to new moon and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh," there's the phrase, "all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the Lord." Now, if we stopped right there, after verse 23, we might say, "There it is!

That's Colossians 1:20, right? All things are going to be reconciled. Everybody's worshiping. All flesh is worshiping." Here's the problem. The next verse goes like this, which is verse 24. "And they," that is the all flesh, "they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me.

For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh." Now, I think this is clear. And what is clear is that all flesh, like all things in Colossians 1:20, all flesh in the new creation does not include the flesh of those who have rebelled against God.

What all flesh means in Isaiah 66, 23 is the totality of humanity in the new heavens and the new earth. There will be nothing and no one there who does not joyfully worship God. Rebels will be outside, away from the glory of the Lord, and that's what I think Colossians 1:20 means as well.

That is a worthy stab at a very baffling text. Thank you, Pastor John. And thanks for the question, Heather. This podcast exists because you engage with us. We depend on your excellent questions like this one here from Heather. And I want to thank you for sending those in to us, tens of thousands of questions over the years.

So grateful. And did you know that Desiring God is 98% donor funded? That's you. That's you listening. You fund what we do. And through those generous financial gifts and prayers of our partners, we reach millions of people every month with God-centered resources like this podcast. And if you feel led to join us as a ministry partner, December is a huge month for us.

Would you consider giving a one-time gift or even a monthly gift to the ministry to donate? Visit DesiringGod.org/give. That's DesiringGod.org/give. Wednesday, we return to talk about what happens to the believer shortly after death. Do we go to see Jesus immediately or does that happen only after the bodily resurrection?

It's another perceptive question from a listener. And I'll ask Pastor John on Wednesday. I'm Tony Rehnke. We'll see you then.