(upbeat music) We're back with Francis Chan, who was kind enough to join us today and tomorrow. And Francis and his wife, Lisa, are the authors of the new book, You and Me Forever, Marriage in Light of Eternity. And as you know, Francis, men and women are postponing marriage later and later.

Even among Christians in the church, this trend is happening, among couples with the full intent of eventually getting married. So what is this trend doing to the church, and what is it doing to the institution of Christian marriage? I believe that at least 90% of those who are postponing, postponing, they're already sleeping together.

So they don't see a big need to rush. There's no sense of, oh, I wanna get married, you know, to really consummate this. I mean, there's so much immorality in the church, and it's disgusting. I mean, people need to know that God hates that. Don't fool yourself. We're gonna get married anyway at some point, and we're in love, and this or that.

And it's like, no, you don't understand. You're a temple of the Holy Spirit. You're a member of Christ, and you're joining yourself basically to a prostitute. You're entering in a union that God wants nothing to do with. It's immoral. And I believe there's more and more of that in the church.

It's becoming more and more acceptable, and it is still just as heinous in God's eyes as it's always been. And so don't fool yourself. I really do believe that that's the main reason why people are okay to postpone, because sexually they're exploring and messing around and dishonoring God, and it's destroying the church in so many ways, 'cause now they feel guilty, that they don't feel like they can be used by the Lord.

And honestly, because of their unrepentant heart, their prayers aren't being answered. And so I don't know if that's probably not the answer you're looking for. But the other thing I will say too is I think some of the postponing of marriage is they're not seeing a lot of marriages they want to become like.

And so often you see these singles that are radically on fire for the Lord and serving him, and then they get married. And once people get married, either they spend all their days enjoying each other and neglecting the mission, or they start fighting with each other and they're counseling all the time and ignoring the mission.

And so it doesn't seem really exciting to either idolize your family to the neglect of the mission or to be in such a desperate state of just trying to get along that you're not really accomplishing anything for the kingdom. So that's another reason. I don't wanna make it all about immorality, although I do believe that we're not doing so well in the area of purity within the church.

- Yeah, talk more about marriage on mission. But maybe first, how old were you when you were married? - I was 26 and Lisa was 22. And we were both virgins when we got married. Three, two or three weeks into the marriage, I looked at her and I said, I know we've never talked about this, but suddenly I feel like God wants me to start a church.

And this would mean, if it's okay, you work and support us, if that's all right, 'cause I don't wanna take any money from the church. I don't even know if anyone's gonna show up. So that's how our marriage started, was like, let's gather some people in the home, let's start the church.

And eventually that became Cornerstone Church and ended up shepherding there for 17 years. - That is marriage on mission. How would you explain this conviction from the Bible? - I would just turn to 1 Corinthians 7 and just explain from scripture what Paul is saying there about how marriage has the potential of distracting us from this undistracted devotion to the Lord and how he tells the married couples, hey, those who are married live as though you are not.

What's he talking about there? Why would the apostle Paul, whose husbands love your wives, also say, hey, those who are married should live as though they're not? There's also another truth that there's something bigger than you just enjoying each other. The time is short, and that's why he says, those who are married live as though you're not.

If you got a bunch of property, pretend you don't. It's just like there's something bigger than the two of you. And if you just spend your days enjoying each other, you're gonna miss out on something greater. And you also don't wanna set that example for your kids. And it's also unbiblical.

- Thank you, Francis. I have one more question for you. A tricky parenting question that ever presses for clarity in many of our homes. And I wanna know if you and Lisa have guidelines for how much time your kids invest in digital technology and entertainment and video games. That's tomorrow with our guest, Francis Chan.

I'm your host, Tony Renke. Thanks for listening to the Ask Pastor John podcast. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)