Is there a type of travel you think is necessary for points to be worth it? I think it does lean more towards aspirational business and like first class type of trips are just like more expensive trips for economy stuff. I still pay out of pocket generally because the value is not there or I get okay value, like maybe 1.5 to 2 cents per point, but it's not like the astronomical 10 cents per point.

So for me, a lot of it is like, how do I, as a P get the VIP experience and unlock this whole thing that I didn't think I could do, like growing up, like pretty lower middle class. I never thought I'd be able to fly business, let alone first.

So the fact that I can actually like, even if it's just for a few hours, see what it's like to be on the other side and experience that and see these other people who are dropping 20 K on these flights.