(upbeat hip hop music) - Welcome to another episode of Curious Mike. I am here with Lana Rhodes. Yeah, so people are gonna be surprised that we're on a podcast together, but I actually came across one of your podcasts that you used to do, 'cause I was messing with one of your friends, and she sent me the podcast, and you were talking about just the dark sides of the adult film industry and the porn industry, which you used to be a part of, and it really just, I was really interested, and honestly, inspired by your story.

So that's kinda why I wanna have you on, and I appreciate you being vulnerable and coming on the podcast. - No, thank you, that's so sweet. - Yeah, not for sure. So let's start off just with your childhood. I feel like a lot of people who end up in the sex industry at all kinda have an unorthodox kinda upbringing.

Was yours a usual upbringing, or how'd that go growing up? - So there's a lot of things that I've come to terms with recently that I didn't even realize were wrong in my childhood. Like the past year, I've started going to therapy, and I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, and I've been through so many things that I was like, oh, maybe this caused it, or this caused it.

And the one thing that really, I feel like if you don't have borderline BPD, you won't understand the feeling. But basically to figure it out, I had to go back and think, when was the first time that I had this feeling that no one loves me, and just overwhelming emotions to the point where it feels like you have to hurt yourself in some way.

And so that came from just like when you're a young child and you're developing your attachment to parents or emotional regulation skills, if people invalidate you, like say you're crying and your parents yell at you to make you stop or they hit you, and I'm talking like two, three years old, obviously you should never hit your kids.

It can cause that. And I just had no idea. I actually thought that everyone's parents hit them. And I really thought that, I thought maybe it just started young doing it. And I asked a couple of my friends, I was like, how old were you when your parents hit you for the first time?

And they were like, what? My parents never hit me. So there's just a lot. And then I have a sister who has schizophrenia too. So I feel like I wasn't dealt like the best hand of cards when it comes to like family circumstances, which definitely contributed to the decisions that I made when I was older, because if your brain is just like completely like warped from going through so much, like going through certain things can actually change your brain chemistry and damage it.

And so I don't think that I would have made the decisions that I made if I was in a better state of mind, because I only was in the industry for a short period of time. And that was because I finally was able to like get away from where I was living and like be separated and live my own life and experience the world and kind of like heal.

'Cause I wasn't in that constant. - Right, was there, did you have your father around or no? - No, so my parents got divorced when my mom was pregnant with me. - Gotcha. - Yeah. - So yeah, obviously like growing up was tough. I had a woman on the podcast who also she kind of ended up in the industry.

She actually was trafficked and she had a similar childhood. I don't think she had a father figure around and her upbringing wasn't the best and it led her to hanging around some people and idolizing certain things. And she ended up, you know, in a really messed up situation. So, you know, you go through that childhood and then I think your teenage years is when you kind of started getting into the industry.

How did that kind of unfold? Like, what was the steps that you took to even, you know, get into that? - Well, yeah, it was kind of like a progressive like ladder effect. I started out working at like a restaurant similar to Hooters when I was 17. And it's not that I don't like know my dad at all.

I just don't spend a lot of time with him. But he like signed the paper so that I could work there because it's like a restaurant where you have to wear like a sexy outfit and I wasn't even 18. So that was like my first like kind of job where men sexualize you and look at you in that way.

And I never thought that I was like pretty or anything growing up. So it was, I was like, wow, they hired me here. Like I'm pretty enough to work here. And then like guys coming up to me and giving me $20 and being like, you're so hot, here's $20.

It was just like, it was so weird to me but also validating 'cause I didn't have that self-esteem. So I kind of went further down the rabbit hole. When I turned 18, I left that job and I went straight to becoming a dancer at a club. And then after that, it was porn.

- Right. And I don't wanna spend too much time kind of in that period of your life which is a very brief period. I think a total, you said you filmed around eight months? - Yeah, like two, four months stints. - Got you. What I really kind of wanna get at is the fact that, in terms of being a porn star, like you had everything that any girl in that industry would want.

You got the fame, you got the popularity, probably were making more money than most girls. And you kind of threw that all away and now are kind of an advocate against a lot of this stuff and you speak openly and you're very passionate about kind of what goes on in the dark sides of the porn industry and how it's not, everything kind of isn't as it seems.

So what kind of brought about your change in perspective? - I am just, I actually had an experience last, so I started doing OnlyFans again and I had an experience last night with another girl that reminded me of how I felt in those times. So it's like, I actually couldn't sleep last night 'cause I was just so hurt by this happening.

Me and one of my good girlfriends, we went live on OnlyFans last night and I just recognized this facial expression that she had that she looked so uncomfortable. And this was our third time doing it. We're friends, we kiss off camera and stuff. So I wasn't expecting it, but I was like, are you okay?

Are you comfortable? And she's like, oh, I just have anxiety. And then she went off to the side and started just bawling and I turned the live off and it's just such, I feel honestly destroyed that I even had any part in someone feeling not comfortable with what they were doing.

And also she was explaining to me that she needs to make money for certain things so she feels like she doesn't say no to all the things that she would want to. And it's probably good that this experience happened with me because I have been through that so much myself that I was able to give her really good advice, even though it's something that literally killed me inside to be part of.

But that's essentially what it was. It's a bunch of really young girls who get into the industry. Like the younger, the better for them. These girls, like when I started, I looked like a little kid like I looked like a little kid. And that's what they like, that's what sells.

And a lot of girls, even my friends, we don't feel comfortable saying no for some reason. 'Cause we just, I don't know, it's just like a natural girl thing. I think we're taught as children to like be obedient, especially to like men or like if you're raised in a religious family, like it's always like obey your father, stuff like that.

And so it's a really big problem with girls feeling pressured by like agents who don't necessarily have their best interest in mind. And I'm doing a lot of things that really hurt them. Like for me, there are certain scenes that I did that I felt like I didn't say anything to them because it's work and I wanted to be professional.

But for example, when the camera would be behind me and you couldn't see my face, I would be gagging or crying because I felt like I was being raped because I did not want to be doing it. And I didn't wanna be feeling the things in my body that I was feeling.

'Cause I was honestly like disgusted by the person that I was having to shoot with 'cause you don't get to choose. So it's just stuff like that that can be very damaging. And it's not the other people's fault. - It's just a huge problem that there's not really anything to set up to protect girls that are young and vulnerable that don't know how to say no or don't like have self-respect for themselves yet or care for themselves or love themselves because they've been through so much and like taught not to.

- And I feel like a lot of people, I don't know if you guys received the backlash, like, oh, you guys chose to do this or whatever. But when you're in your teenage years and then you're around these older men, I'm sure they're all older. - Yeah, they're all in their 40s.

They know exactly how to get you to do what you want, what they want, to make them money. - And then you guys don't even really make much, I'm sure. - No, it's pickles. Like, I was the number one porn star and my rate was $1,200 for a sex scene, $1,200.

- That's unbelievable. - But obviously like a lot of these girls are coming from small towns, like their families probably don't have money. I thought $100 at the time was like so much money. So getting 1,200 was like a big deal. But then I met this boy who worked in, not the guy that I ended up dating for a long time, but I met this other boy that worked in like YouTube and Instagram.

And he shared with me that he was getting $15,000 to pose with a Jeep on Instagram. And I was like, I'm getting $1,200 for a sex scene. This is not okay. - Yeah, and I think that's one thing like this industry, like it continues to take off, you know, as time goes on, you know, more people are exposed to it at a younger age.

It's like, like porn is a real life addiction for a lot of people. But a lot of these young men that are introduced to it, they don't really know kind of behind the scenes what you guys deal with. They look at these girls on camera and think like, oh, they're enjoying it, this is what they like, this is, you know, whatever.

And I think that it's important for people like you, especially super successful people like you that decided to leave, like to kind of educate young men. And I guess young women now, I saw a lot of young women watch porn too, but just that it's not, that's not what it is.

It's not, it's glamorous and it's not like these, it's not what it appears to be kind of. - Yeah, definitely. It was like, you could probably could not tell at all that I felt the way that I did in the certain scenes because it's a job, it's acting. And like, I had like pre-planned things that I was going to say during the scenes, like facial expressions that I was gonna make, things that I was gonna do because it's fake, it's fake.

And I also think like the point that you made that the guys don't understand what's going on behind the scenes. And then also that people are like, oh, you knew what you got into. And like, you get backlash for talking out about it. I think it's because men like consuming porn and they don't wanna feel guilty for consuming it.

And so they don't wanna hear that I felt the way that I felt. And they refuse to believe that I'm not like a giant whore that wants to get like fucked by like a bunch of big dicks. Like, I'm the biggest prude in real life. - How did you, did you, because I know a lot of women that are in that industry, it's very hard to get out or like you almost feel like you're stuck.

And even the girls that do, sometimes the only way out to them may seem like suicide. Like I saw a stat on your podcast where it was like the average life expectancy of someone in the sex industry for a woman is about 37. And the average life expectancy outside of that industry is 78, I think.

And I was just like, how is that possible? So a lot of, obviously a lot of these girls feel like there's no way out. How were you able to kind of get out and kind of just like, I guess, find your identity outside of the industry? - I mean, I had to, or it probably would have led to that point of like killing myself.

And 'cause I started like towards the end of it, I started having panic attacks, like before scenes 'cause I really didn't wanna do them. And I didn't know how to say, no, I don't wanna do this. So there really was no choice for me. It was either like probably going to kill myself or just do anything to like make something else work.

And this is what I was telling my friend last night, 'cause she was saying that she's not really happy with doing OnlyFans anymore. And I'm like, she has other passions that she's interested in. I really believe anyone, if they just work towards anything that they wanna do, just a little bit every single day, like you can get there.

Just 'cause a lot of people aren't willing to like work every single day and put in the effort. But if you do, it really does pay off. When I quit porn, I only had like 200,000 followers on Instagram. And I met this boy and I was like, okay, I wanna do what he does.

I wanna be an Instagram influencer. And I grew my account to over 10 million in one year, just by literally asking all my friends, hey, can you take a picture of me today? Hey, can you help me with this? And just always posting, like working on my Instagram. And then I started getting brand deals which sustained me so that I didn't have to do any sex work.

And then it just progressed over time with the stuff that I do. Like I ended up doing YouTube with my boyfriend, and then a podcast, and now I'm doing fashion. So I really think like it doesn't really make sense where I came from in porn to where I am now.

And I think it's really just believing that you can and putting in effort every single day to get there. - Yeah, I mean, I find that kind of inspiring because I know a lot of people, you hear the term selling yourself for fame or money or whatever, but like the fact that you were the number one porn star, and then you chose to kind of like let all that go.

Like I know I've talked to some rappers who do the music, and they talk about how they don't really want to be making the type of music they do. They don't wanna talk about the violence or the whatever. They would rather be a positive message. But the reason that they talk about these things is because it sells.

And they're making a lot of money, and they know if they change their message or whatever, they wouldn't be as successful. And it's similar in your story because you were doing all that, but you decided to step down from that and try to find ways to make money or find your identity outside of porn.

I feel like that obviously takes a big like leap of faith. And it's just very hard to do when you kind of have become something, but you wanna completely shift away from it. So I admire you for that. And that's kind of why I wanted to talk to you about this.

But yeah, I think one thing that my sister mentioned was as this porn industry kind of increases, you also see like an increase in just the human trafficking, the sex trafficking as well, which I find that to be like, I mean, it's probably pretty obvious why they grow together, but have you seen that?

Can you speak on that? Or why do you think the rise in porn also equals the rise in the human trafficking? How do those kind of collide together? - I personally haven't like experienced human trafficking. Or the closest like that I've ever been to meeting someone who has was I went to Juvie when I was a teen and really like, it's really sad.

There were some of the most beautiful, amazing girls that I met in there and they were like 12 years old and like their parents had been like pimping them out since they were like 11. And like this one girl looked like a model. She was so beautiful and like this was happening to her because her parents did dope.

And so they were pimping out their 11 year old daughter. And I remember at one point she like, like there was like something on her butt or something and like she wanted me to look at it. And like, she bent over and she didn't have like underwear on and like, because if girls like get raped very young or like have to have sex, it can like ruin their vagina.

And it was just, I felt so bad for her 'cause she was only 12 and it looked like just, I don't know, it's hard. But that's the closest experience that I've had with that. I'm not like too educated on what's going on with. - Gotcha. - Yeah. - Gotcha, now I was just curious about that.

So what advice would you then give to, so I guess a lot of girls are then going into this industry obviously by free will. So what advice, being where you are now and seeing what you've seen, what advice would you then give girls who are considering going into the industry?

- And there's a few things. One, my experience and other girls' experiences may be different. Like I know people, girls who supposedly really like doing it. And like, that's fine for them to like doing it. The difference between me and those girls that I've noticed is that before I did porn, I was only with one guy.

Like I didn't hook up with people. I still like have to be in love with someone to want to like be physical with them. And the other girls before they did porn, the ones who like tend to like it more, it's because they're already doing like gang bangs in their personal life or like being very sexually active already.

And so it like makes more sense to them. - They were like already fucked. - Yeah, they were already doing it. And so they're like, why not make money off of it? And it's something that they enjoy supposedly. I mean, I'm sure like some of them have had like days on set that didn't go well.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you feel like, so then what do you think contributes to the girls who end up in that industry doing so many drugs or the suicide rates? Why do you feel like that is so high then? Do you just feel like there's a lot of girls that do feel like you?

Or do you just feel like, yeah, what do you think happens? - I'm kind of going back to like what happened with my friend last night. She didn't wanna be doing it, but she felt like she needed money. And so like the piece of advice that I gave her was just, if there's a piece of yourself that you don't feel like you can give, don't give it for anything because that's gonna end up like fucking you up so bad in the long run.

And like, I know because I gave way too much of myself that I didn't want to. And like no money is worth doing that really. And I imagine like the girls wanting to kill themselves or like taking drugs, like even just to deal with it, like to do the scenes maybe if they don't wanna be doing it so they can like disassociate 'cause they just need to like make money to sustain themselves at that point.

Also like if your body, it's just not natural for people I think to be having sex with people that they don't know and that they're not attracted to. And also like, even if you do like doing sex work, there might be a day where you don't like having sex or you don't wanna be sexual and you still have to do it anyway.

So it's a bit traumatizing to share your body in that way 'cause it's such an intimate thing. - Right. - And it's just not natural to be doing-- - No, 100% agree. - That stuff's like, imagine like you just meet someone in the lobby and like you're not attracted to them at all and it's like, okay, now you have to fuck them and pretend that you like it.

- Right. No, that's definitely-- - It's awful. - It's crazy. No, this is definitely crazy to think about. That's definitely, I mean, I think it's something obviously more intimate. But I think, I'm sure guys in the industry, they probably don't process stuff the way females do, like they're in there living their best life probably.

- That's, so some of them, so like maybe when they first got into it, but a lot of them do have problems too. Like there's like these injections that guys have to do before the scenes. Like they can't even get hard anymore. - Right, yeah, I didn't hear about that.

- Yeah, so they have to like shoot up their dick with some sort of stimulant, I don't know what it is. Or I did date one guy when I was in the porn industry who was like a director and he performed in his own scenes. And they get, which I've seen this with like celebrity men too that have hooked up with a lot of girls.

They get so like numb to just regular sex or just women that they end up having like these like really intense fetishes 'cause they can't like get off to normal things anymore. Like I've met guys who like being peed on, who buy cookies with poop in them off the internet and watch those pooping.

- Honestly, I know what you're talking about because even in the NBA, like you talk about, and this is why I think like porn is dangerous, but also hooking up with too many people and because you get desensitized to the normal thing. And this happens in the NBA. Like I hear wild stories about some of these dudes, but like you said.

- Oh, trust me. (both laughing) Other celebrities too that their fetishes get so crazy. They might be a straight man, but they've done so much stuff with so many pretty girls and they have so much access to pretty girls that now they're over here messing with trannies or now they're over here messing with dudes.

And it's like, it's crazy to think about. And I think, obviously, I think the porn industry has a part to play in that because you watch a, when you first get introduced to it, just seeing a girl naked might be enough for you, but then you keep watching it and now you're looking at the craziest things and now normal sex in real life doesn't do it for you.

- Definitely. And also, how old were you the first time that you saw porn? - Man, my mom caught me too. (both laughing) But I really didn't want, I just looked up, like I think I probably was in like, I don't know, maybe when I was like 11 or 12, maybe 13.

- So young to where you haven't-- - And I just looked up naked girls or something like that. - Yeah, like you Google boobs or something. (both laughing) - All I saw was a naked girl, I was like, but then like, yeah, so I understand. - But imagine being young and having no sexual experience yourself and then you watch a porn scene for the first time and then you think that's what sex is, like this wild performance.

Like I think one of the first sex scenes I saw was Sasha Gray. And like, she was like wild, like licking toilet seats, doing like double anal gang bangs. And so this is what I saw. And like, I thought when I first hooked up with my husband, which is the only person I slept with before porn, I thought that like how you suck a dick was like what I saw on camera, which is like, oh, you have to like deep throat it.

Like everything that I thought about sex was what I watched, which now I've learned like, that's not even what I like at all. - Hold on, so you was married before you went into porn? - Yeah. - So you married at like what, like 17? - At 18. - Oh, wow.

- I met him a week before I turned 18. - Got you, that's crazy. But now I feel you, it messes up kind of your perception of what it's supposed to be. And even I think these dudes nowadays, I mean, obviously some girls are into some crazy things, but these dudes that are always watching porn, they think that this is always what a girl wants and now they're going to these girls and not knowing really what they actually enjoy.

And like I said, some of these girls are out here and they're freaks, so they like all this stuff, but not all of them, you know what I mean? So I think it's really detrimental to young men. And then if they go and they got a girl and the girl doesn't wanna do this, now they can't even really get off to him.

Like I know some dudes that would rather watch porn than hook up with their girlfriend because their girlfriend may not do all the things that they're seeing on the screen. I feel like that is-- - That's actually wild. - That is super unhealthy. - Yeah, no, that's, also I didn't know how I would feel about that as a girlfriend.

- Yeah, do you think that's considered, 'cause I know a lot of dudes, you know, they might have a wife that's ready in the bedroom, but she's not doing the things that you see on camera, so they're going to sneak in the bathroom and watching porn. As a woman, do you feel like that would be considered cheating if you were married to a dude?

- I personally feel it might also be a BPD thing, 'cause you're very sensitive to rejection, but I do get very upset if I have a partner and for whatever reason, they don't wanna, they reject me for sex, it makes me spiral. So I can only imagine if your significant other doesn't wanna fuck you and they're more interested in seeing something else, yeah, I would be extremely hurt.

- Yeah, and I feel like that happens so much now. Like, rejected and feeling probably just like shit about yourself. - Yeah, that makes sense. But outside, so like now you obviously have kind of turned your life around and you're not doing that anymore. Did it take you a while?

I know you talk about how it's super frustrating for you anywhere you walk, anywhere you go. People look at you and they see a porn star and you've been out of that for so many years now. How do you deal with that? And did it take you a while to not be triggered by that?

I know it's probably super frustrating. You're doing your thing outside of that industry now, but how has that gone for you? - I used to care a lot more than I do. Like when I started my podcast with Olivia and Alexa, I kind of did it in a way to like make myself, like I wanted to use it in a way to like show people how I actually was or like really like focused on like speaking well to sort of beat the stereotype of like being a dumb porn star.

Like I used to really, really care what people think and like trying to prove that I wasn't the stereotype. And then after, when I got pregnant, like the bullying online got so bad with it that I just became like tuned out to it and I don't give a fuck anymore.

Like I don't give a shit. - I mean, a lot of athletes have to go through that too. So I feel you. - You guys get hella bullied, so bad, like the worst. - People talk crazy to us. And so I know how that feels. And you really eventually reach a point where it's like, man, I don't care what these people are talking about.

- No, you can't. - They have no relevance in my life. Why are they so concerned what I'm doing? - And also once you start to like truly know who you are and like your morals and values, how can they tell you who you are if you know? - How has the, you know, being a mother now, and we talked about this before the podcast, everybody says there's speculations who the baby daddy is.

And you know, like I-- - Yeah, people are gonna say you're the baby daddy now. They're gonna like put side by side pictures. - I know, but like when we were in the playoffs, obviously like my teammate, Bruce, who that's who I met you through, we all were kicking it somewhere out here in LA.

But, you know, like during the playoffs we would clap, we would just like, bro, your picture, is this your baby? You know what I mean? But obviously you probably, I mean, you're keeping that like on the low for a reason. But how has being a mother kind of changed your life and changed your perspective?

Do you feel like, has it helped you? - It's kind of like you win some and you lose some, you know, my pregnancy caused a lot of like health issues that I finally like have gotten under control and like sort of those also diminished my mental health. Like probably for the past two years until recently, I was in like the worst mental health state that I'd ever been in.

However, because I grew up in a house with a sister who was extremely mentally ill and it was like very toxic for me. No matter what, I always make sure to never let my son see that. And to always make sure that whether I'm depressed and stuck in bed, that he has the best nanny taking him to go and do activities if I can't do that with him.

Or taking him out to dinner. Because I, like I don't want the things that I go through to affect him. And I really don't think that they do 'cause I'm super careful about it. But, sorry, what was the original question? - No, I was just curious how just being a mother like has just changed your life or perspective?

- Well, recently, so I started taking medication, like going to therapy and the relationship that I have with being a mother is just so great now. Like I really look at him and I'm like, "Oh my God, I'm like so lucky to have you." Like just really, really enjoying it.

Actually recently, 'cause he usually goes to school and like I haven't even been wanting to send him to school lately 'cause I'm like, "I need to spend all the time with you." - Is the dad like around for real? Or like, is it just you or how's that going?

- Just me. He's only met his dad one time. And after that, like the dad wasn't super nice about it. So I was just like, "I'm not trying this with you anymore." - Was he more mad about the fact that you like had the kid or did he not want you to have the kid or why would...

I can't imagine, even if it was like a girl who I messed up with and I don't want nothing to do with her. If I had a kid with that woman, I don't care how much I don't like her, I'm still trying to spend time with my kid. - Also like it wasn't a one-time thing.

Like he told me that he loved me. Like, and then there's like other things that like we had quit talking before I've even found out that I was pregnant. And like, he might've even had a girlfriend that I didn't know about, which might be like part of it. And so it always was just like, I actually wrote like a poem about this on my Tumblr.

He never asked me to get an abortion or anything like that. But constantly throughout my pregnancy, I had never seen him since like the night that we conceived our son. I actually saw him last week for the first time in three years. But he would call me during my pregnancy, like every few months and be like, "Hey, like I'm worried that you're gonna like, people are gonna find out this or that.

Like, can you please like do this?" Like expecting me to protect him. And I did for so long, just like out of love. Like everyone's like, "Oh, he paid her money or she has an NDA." Like, no, I don't. Like that's the father of my child. Like, I'm not trying to do anything bad to him.

Like my son looks just like him. So like, no matter what happens, I automatically will always have so much love for him because he's like part of my son. - Right. I think that's honestly like, that's every dude who gets a girl pregnant's dream is you could just tell her like, "Yo, can you?" - You just take care of it yourself.

- Well, no, not even that. It's more the fact that you, I think it's crazy how you, I mean, a lot of dudes would pay the girl not to say who it was or just pay the girl to take care of the baby. But like, you just didn't even, you never have really come out and criticized the father or talked down about the father.

You've just, you know, been a mother. - I mean, I've made some jokes online about it. - You've talked to him? - Like he's gotten mad about. No, nothing crazy. Like I've made like jokes, like in passing, like don't have kids with NBA players. Or like, one time I was like-- - I think we're good fathers.

- Shooting a hoop and I was like, well, I did have NBA DNA in me for 10 months. - Yeah, you got a chip. - I got a call after that, I did not like those jokes. - You really? Man, now that's crazy. One of my last questions for you is, Mike, you talk about how it's been a process to kind of find an identity like outside of the industry and whatever.

And your real name is actually not Lana, it's Amara, correct? - Yeah, Amara. - So if you kind of like, have you ever considered just going and leaving the Lana Rhodes like behind and going by your real name? And like, or is, I just wondered, like I thought your real name was Lana.

And then I was doing some-- - Yeah, sometimes I think my real name is Lana. - Yeah, I was doing some research before this podcast and it was like Amara Maple. And I was like, huh, like-- - All my friends call me Lana. - Really? - Yeah. - So you just, that's just, that's just it now?

- It might be like, going back to like the BPD thing, like you really don't have like a sense of identity. So I've never really resonated with like having a name. Like even when I was a dancer, I had Farah as my name and all my friends called me that, that I knew from the club or Amara, which is what my family calls me.

I think like when I have boyfriends, like sometimes we like switch on and off from using Amara or Lana. But I just, I really don't notice. And sometimes I actually do think that my name is Lana. - Huh, that's interesting. So what going forward for you, like, is your, like going forward, where do you want to go from here?

Like, is it just continue with the, with the OnlyFans stuff and influencer stuff? Or do you have other goals in your life going forward or kind of, where do you go from here? - I just, I want to just keep having something that I'm like impassioned about. And right now it's making clothes and just like even designing my own furniture for my house or recently writing, which I never thought that I was good at 'cause I dropped out of school in eighth grade.

But I wrote a few poems on Tumblr and people were like, "Oh my God, you're like such a good writer." And I never thought that I was. So that's helped me a lot recently, just like always having a passion. And then like, if you can find a way to turn that passion into income, like that's obviously amazing.

But the most important thing to me is just like being the best mom ever. Like that comes first before anything. - He looks like his baby daddy. - Yeah. - Have you ever thought about writing a book? Like, I feel like- - Everyone on Tumblr is telling me to.

They're like, "You're writing so good. You have to write a book." - No, that'd be cool. I mean, I don't know if you'd write fiction or nonfiction, but I feel like your story, it is a good story like to get out there. Just because I feel like it helps a lot of people.

When you can hear from a woman like you who was in the industry, but has so much to say about what it's really like, it can kind of, you know, you can't really watch that stuff and look at these girls the same. And I feel like a lot of men like objectify women, you know, it's just like a natural, I don't know if it's definitely not natural, but it's like- - Part of like culture.

- It's part of the culture now. And I feel like a lot of women even nowadays fall into that thinking like, "Oh, this is just how it is. Like men objectify me, this is what I'm gonna do." - Or like they feel like they have to like have sex with men to get love or- - Or you live in LA and it's even like these girls, like I know these girls out here doing anything for acceptance or job opportunities or, and I just think- - Or even like a guy like flies around, they're like, "Oh my God, he bought me a flight.

Now I have to have sex with him." Like what? No. - You don't think if a dude fly you out, the girl gotta be giving it up? - Fuck no, no. I've had a guy buy me a private jet to go somewhere and I didn't hook up with him.

- He wasn't hot? - No, it's not. I have some of the most attractive men I've ever seen. - No, I'm saying he wasn't mad, like he wasn't mad that you didn't use. - I don't care. I'm not doing something that I don't wanna do. - No, for sure, I'm just saying like- - Like they can be mad all that they want.

And if they show that they're mad, then I'm not gonna talk to them anymore. So they probably wouldn't. - I think dudes that are flying girls out, I think there's definitely an expectation. I don't know if it's a good expectation. I think if a dude is like, "I'm spending any money on this girl." Like, yeah, like she better be with him.

- But that's not, the girl should not, like she should feel like she's worth more than whatever money he spent on it. And also not feel obligated to give, like going back to like giving someone something that you don't have to give. Like, if you're not 100% sure that you wanna have sex with that person, or give your body to that person, or be intimate with them for like, 'cause you really want it, and it's like for some other reason, or you're unsure, like you shouldn't, you definitely should not do it.

- And it's crazy you say that, 'cause I had this conversation with some of my teammates the other day on the bus. We were talking about like a girl who we would view as like a wifey, or like a girlfriend, like a girl you would cuff versus a girl that you would just hook up with.

And we were like, "Okay, if she's giving it up "the first night, like how would you view her?" And we were all kind of like, "Well, we probably wouldn't wife that girl, "'cause if she's giving it up on the first night, "then she probably has done that multiple times." Then we were like, "Okay, then when is the right time "to give it up, second night, third night, "like for a date, whenever?" And it really is, I think, for these girls out there that think that they should be giving it up when a dude is pressuring them, or he does something nice for 'em, but they really don't have that connection yet.

Like, dudes aren't gonna view you as a girlfriend, or like, they would never wanna cuff you if you're just giving it up right away. So, your advice is really good. - If you stand on your ground, and like you respect yourself in that way, like I've honestly never had any problems with guys being mad about it.

And like, I did porn before, so people automatically assume that I'm going to sleep with people, or that I've slept with all the NBA players that I've hung out with. I've never slept with any of them besides the one that I have a kid with. But none of these guys have gotten upset with me for not sleeping with them, no matter what they had bought me, or we've gone on trips together.

- They tend to respect you. - Yeah, like we end up having a respectful, good friendship. - I think, yeah, and I think that these girls nowadays definitely kind of think the opposite. They get pressured, or they wanna make a dude happy. Or like you said, that you kind of struggle with the people-pleasing thing.

They think that they gotta make this dude happy. But if you really wanna, I don't know what these girls want. Some girls just want to be able to say, "Oh, I hooked up with this guy," or whatever. But if you're a girl that really wants to be valued by a dude, and not just thought of as a whatever, like an object, like we've been talking about, then it's not always bad to wait a while.

- Also, you mentioned having a connection. So perhaps it's not necessarily like, "Oh, she slept with him too early." But say she does sleep with him before they have that connection, and it's not someone that you actually have that chemistry or connection with, then it's not gonna work anyway.

- You can't force it from having sex with them early. - Yeah, that might mess it up even worse. But if you wait a while, now even the sex would probably be better, because you actually got to know them as a person. - Or you could decide that you don't wanna sleep with them.

Usually I'll hang out with a guy four times, and on the fourth time, I know if there's someone that I'm going to be in love with and wanna have sex with. If it doesn't happen with the fourth time, I'm like, "Okay, I don't like him like that." - How has the dating thing been for you since you've kind of left that industry?

Is it difficult for you? Is it easy? How does that go? - Dating was easier after than when I was younger, because I had more respect for myself. My last relationship was really good, but I ended up getting pregnant two months after. And then now I just really don't have time for a relationship.

I haven't hooked up with anyone since April, which is, I was super in love with that boy, but we're not dating or anything, because I don't have time. I can't text a boy all day long. I have to work. I have to take care of my kid. I'm not gonna go out and leave my child every night to go hang out with you, so I just don't have time right now.

- Do dudes ever try to hold... 'Cause I know dudes are petty. Even me, I'm not acting like I'm-- - An angel, oh, I know. - How do you know? - I've heard your talks, though. - Chill. No, I'm talking more like, do dudes try to hold things over your head from the past?

'Cause I know me, I could be messing with a girl, and I hear something about something she did in the past or whatever, and it'll still make me mad. I don't know if that's, that's probably not good, but it'll still make me mad. Do dudes try to hold things over your head?

- I mean, that's probably something that you need to work on. You know? - Yeah, nah, it is. I don't know why, I don't know why I do that. - No, no, it happens. How old are you? - 25. - See, you're still so young. Like, I used to be-- - How old are you?

- I just turned 27. But I used to be super jealous, too, and honestly, it changes over time, and you just, when you get older, you have a better understanding of relationships and connections, and I personally, if I ever was to be in a relationship, I would never be like, even though I don't wanna sleep with other people, I'd never be like, oh, you can't sleep with other people, or you have to do this or do that, 'cause I personally think that it's way more powerful if you believe that you have this, like, or you're with someone that you have a really special connection with that you know they can't find somewhere else, and it's more powerful if someone, like, they have the options to do whatever they want, but they always choose you.

- 100%. - You know, so that's kind of like what, having that mindset got rid of that jealousy and insecurity that I used to have. But guys have held it over my head. Me and my ex, we got in a really, like, crazy fight one night, and actually, I've had two boyfriends say this to me.

They would say, no one's ever going to love you because you did porn and you're a whore. - Seriously? - And, yeah. - So then why would they, if that's really what they thought, do you just not love them? - Well, 'cause they try to tell you, like, oh, I'm the only one that's ever gonna love you, so you have to stay with me.

- They're toxic, not me. - Yeah. - Yeah, no. - That's crazy, yeah. Nah, I definitely, as I've gotten older, I've realized, when I was watching a podcast, I think with, do you know a girl named Brittany Rayner? Do you know who that is? - Oh, yeah, no, I love her.

- I was watching a podcast, I think she was on there with Andrew Tate. I was watching the podcast, and she was talking about, just, you know, she's done some things in the past, but she's not doing 'em anymore, and, like, are women, like, redeemable, like, in the eyes of men, like, if they've done things in the past, and now they're a whole different person, like, you know, like you, or, I don't know, she's changed what she was doing, but, like, her, and I think Andrew Tate said something, like, it just depends on the dude, like, or something, I forget exactly what he said, but I think, like, the right dude, you know, obviously, in a mature man, you know, for me, I've had to think about, like, why do I get so mad about something that the girl might've did in the past, or who she was messing with in the past, because, and I'm a dude who-- - She had no idea she was gonna meet you in the future.

- And I've done wild stuff in the past, too, so if a girl was gonna hold that over my head, then I would be in trouble, because I've done some wild stuff, and I've definitely been a dude, back in the day, who had, like, double standards, like, oh, I can have a crazy past, but she can't have any type of past, so I'm not messing with her.

But I think, like you said, as you get older, and you see people, like, for who they are, and you kinda, like, meet 'em where they're at, like, if you fall in love with this person, or you like this person, you gotta accept them for who they are, and what they've done, and-- - Yeah, 'cause that's what made them the person that you love.

- Exactly, 100%. - All the experiences that they had. - 100%, so I definitely think that's something that comes with maturity. But, nah, I really appreciate you coming on. I don't like to keep people on here that long. I just, you know, people that I find either inspirational, or people that I'm just curious about their stories, or whatever, I like to have 'em on here, and just ask a few questions that I'm curious about, and then let 'em go.

So I appreciate you. - Curious Mike. - I appreciate you helping on the podcast. - Was it inspired by Curious George? - Sierra came up with it, she, 'cause I've always just been a curious dude. I'd always ask wild questions, and just speak my mind, and honestly, the podcast kinda came about because you know how people on the internet are, and if you tweet something that's kinda, like, against the norm, or you Instagram something, you get crucified, and people don't even know what you were talking about, they don't know context.

They'll take a tweet, or whatever, and blow it up. So I was like, what if I came out with a podcast, and I could have unfiltered conversations, or conversations that people are kinda scared to have, or whatever, and just be open? 'Cause I feel like, you know, that creates a space for understanding, and more, so that's kinda how I-- - Yeah, you can hope so.

Some people never will, though. You can hope so that people understand, but sometimes they never will. - Right, nah, and you gotta accept that. But nah, I appreciate you, Lana. - Thank you. - For sure, Curious Mike out. (laughing) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)