Can our jobs all be at risk, or could AI be used to drive productivity across the economy? Joining me now is the CEO and founder of Do Not Pay, the world's first robot lawyer, Joshua Browder, and Jeremy Howard, founding researcher of Fast.AI, and Matthew Said and Amy Lewin are still with me.

OK, Joshua Browder, here's my question about jobs specifically. Let's assume for a moment that AI and robots take a whole lot of jobs. Say Goldman Sachs are right, 300 million jobs. All those people are suddenly unemployed, who used to have those jobs. Where are the people going to be with enough income, if they're unemployed, to buy the products being made by all the robots?

Well, the government can give them money. I think AI will replace a huge number of jobs. Lawyers will be the first to be replaced by AI because they're charging hundreds of dollars an hour for copying and pasting documents. But AI will also create a lot of jobs. A lot of jobs today didn't exist 20 years ago.

So at my company, Do Not Pay, we're now hiring jobs called prompt engineers. And that is actually telling the AI what to do. And that job didn't even exist a year ago. So I think there will be new and exciting jobs for people. But at the same time, those that charge a lot of money for doing very little, like some lawyers, not all lawyers, have to worry about being replaced.

You seem very, very anti-lawyers. I spent too much time trying to fight them. Probably too much money. One thing your chatbot lawyer has successfully done is overturn almost 200,000 parking tickets. I could see you becoming extremely popular just with that service alone. Yeah, for very simple tasks, no one has time to wait on hold for five hours to save $50, like getting a refund for a company or getting out of a parking ticket.

And so that's the perfect job for AI, saving time and money for people. And I think those people, the lawyers you see on billboards that charge a lot of money to do that should be very worried. OK. So Jeremy Howard, I mean, clearly a massive threat to human employment.

We're seeing it already. And it's going to move probably faster and faster. But what do we do about this? You can't just have vast swathes of the planet who were employed suddenly not having employment. What do we do? Yeah, I think we've got to be careful. You know, it's not as easy as what Joshua described.

There aren't going to be new jobs to fill in all the old ones. And I can explain why. It's very simple. Think of it this way. We have two things. As humans, we have a body and a brain. Our body can move things. Our brain can think about things.

Back in the Industrial Revolution, the engine was developed. And before that, in the UK, 80% of people worked on farms. And the engine came along and allowed us to replace humans using their bodies to move things with machines. And today, only 1.5% of people work on farms in the UK.

That's fine. Lots of new jobs came along because we still had something else to give, our brains. And so now most of us do jobs which involve, at least to some extent, thinking about things. Now if AI can come along and think about things better than we can, where are these replacement jobs going to come from?

We've got things that can move stuff. We've got things that can think about stuff. So where's the role for humans? I do think there'll be some jobs still. For example, talk show host. I think there are some things where we need a human. You know, I don't want to tune in to Piers Morgan bot, right?

Well, you just chumble the okay, but on that, it's very interesting. You don't think you do. But if I was to have a robot, AI robot, be programmed, look like me, and had access to everything, every question I'd ever asked, every mannerism, every style, whatever, I reckon quite quickly they could develop something which could do a very passable version of me.

Right. But I still wouldn't tune in. Like, think of another one. Are you going to tune in to the tennis playing bots? Like the fact that Roger Federer is an amazing human is why we like watching him play tennis. So I think like there'll still be a role of like humans doing human things and other other people saying, well, look at that person.

That's amazing. So I think there's going to be a totally different kind of role for people that they won't be jobs in the classical sense, but it could be great. If we find a way to transition to this, it's not a threat. It means you don't have to go to work and do eight hours of whatever you're told tomorrow.

You can do whatever you most want to, that could be great, but it could possibly be a huge threat. Yeah. Let me bring Matthew in here. A friend of mine, a friend of my son, actually, my oldest boy, his mother wanted him to send a thank you note for a party she'd arranged for his 30th birthday and he kept delaying this.

And eventually he asked AI to do him a thank you note to his mum, giving it a few details. And it did a note that was so perfect and so emotional and heart-rending. His mother was reduced to tears when she read it and said she'd never been so moved by him.

Now, is that good or is that awful? It brought great joy to his mother, but she has no idea it was a robot. As it happens, on Tuesday, my wife sent me an email. She had gone to chat GBT and said, write a Sunday Times column in the style of Matthew's side.

And I was like, this is going to be terrible. I'm reading through it. Thank you pretty good. I'm thinking my goodness journalists are going to go. On the question, by the way, of we want to connect with the human. How do we know that we're currently talking to Piers Morgan, the flesh and blood human reality in the robot?

What would stop you substituting the hologram? I interviewed a robot, honestly, Amy, I interviewed a robot at Good Morning Britain. It was a female robot and it was chilling. She looked like a woman. She spoke like a woman. Now that was a few years ago. God knows where they're getting to with this now, where they can just be very convincing humans.

But with amazingly high power brains. They can be. They're not perfect, though. Yeah, I've got a friend who's a school teacher and she said that when she gets an essay done by the robot, it's so much better than any 13 year old boy could actually do that. She can really tell which ones, which still at the moment, but they'll get there.

They will. They will. I mean, finally, Joshua, I've asked a few guesses, but what are you most excited by, by the potential of AI? I think AI, as was discussed in the previous guest, is being used for evil with debt collectors and all of this stuff. But it can also be used for good.

And my goal is to give power to the people. And if it makes ordinary people more powerful than the richest in society, then that's great. And so I think it will level the playing field by allowing people to weaponize AI to help them in their everyday life. All right.

Jeremy, same question for you. Quick answer, please. Yeah, imagine the huge opportunities in education. I've got a daughter and we're already she's doing stuff with chat GPT and stuff and it's fantastic. She can learn about anything she wants to. It's an engaging thing. You know, it's not replacing teachers at the moment, but I think AI could be used to really democratize education.

That's something I'm very excited about. I could actually see robots taking classes with kids. I mean, if they're if they're good enough and they give them a bit of personality, why not? I mean, most teachers do a version of the same kind of lessons. I mean, you get the a few, you know, if you who break out and do very different things each time, but all of them do the same stuff, it's going to be like a personal tutor for every kid.

Yeah. It's going to be fascinating. And thank you both very much indeed. I appreciate it.