Chris from South Carolina writes in with a really good question. "Pastor John, hello. If Jesus grew spiritually," and then he cites Luke 2 52, an amazing reference that Jesus did grow spiritually, "spiritual growth in its essence must be marked by something other than sinning less. So what is the essence or perhaps the goal of spiritual growth that sinless Jesus was moving toward?" What would you say to Chris?

Excellent question. So let me put a couple more passages of Scripture alongside Luke 2 52 so we can see how crucial the question really is. Luke 2 52 says, "And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man." So this is where Chris sees growth in Jesus' spiritual life.

He increased, he increased in wisdom and he increased in favor with God and so on. So there was some kind of movement, some kind of growth, as Chris says. Now let's add to Luke 2 52, Hebrews 2 10. "It was fitting that he, God, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, that he should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering." So here we have God making Jesus perfect through suffering.

So Jesus is in some sense moving toward perfection. And here's the one other verse, Hebrews 5 8 and 9. "Although he was a son," although Jesus was a son of God, "he learned obedience," catch that phrase, "he learned obedience through what he suffered, and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him." So if you put all those together, you have Jesus increasing in wisdom, increasing in favor with God and man, being made perfect through suffering, learning obedience through what he suffered.

And so Chris's question is basically, what does all that mean if Jesus never sinned and therefore could not progress from a state of some sinning to no sinning? Or to be more specific, what does it mean to learn obedience or to be made perfect? And why, Chris asks, did Jesus pass through this?

What's the goal? What is he moving toward if he's not ever sinning? So let's make sure that neither Chris, I presume, nor I, neither of us is just arbitrarily assuming that Jesus never sinned. Like, we've got a theology that he's sinless, and we're just gonna assume that he never sinned, and we're not gonna let these texts change our mind no matter what they say.

No, no, no, no, no. We're not assuming this. We are reading it in the book of Hebrews. That's what makes it so significant. Hebrews, probably more than any other book in the New Testament, insists upon the sinlessness of Jesus. For example, Hebrews 4:15, "We do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect was tempted as we are, yet without sin." Same thing in 726, same thing in 914.

So we're not assuming Jesus was sinless. The writer who said he learned obedience said he never sinned. So he has created the problem, not us, and we're just trying to get inside the Bible writer's head. What does it mean to be perfected or to learn obedience? And here's my suggestion.

He learned obedience means that Jesus moved from untested obedience into suffering, and then through suffering into tested and proven obedience. If you think about it, if you're good enough, you can learn a new task without failing. And the new task that Jesus had to learn every hour, especially at the end of his life, was, "Can I endure this suffering that I have never experienced before, this new obedience that I have never performed before in the history of the universe, can I learn and do this perfectly without failing, without falling into unbelief and murmuring?" And the answer of Hebrews is, "Yes!" He could, and he did.

He learned obedience in what he suffered, and he never, never, never failed once in the process of perfect learning, proven, tested obedience. In other words, in all of Jesus' suffering, he was being tested. Would he add obedience to obedience until he had grown into the complete, perfect, tested man—that is, the man who had been fully and completely proven and who had responded with perfect obedience so that he could be described as fully perfected?

Not meaning that he passed from sinfulness to sinlessness, but that he passed from untested obedience to fully tested obedience. And I think the answer to Chris's question about what Jesus was moving toward is not merely that he was moving toward a completely tested perfection, but that he was moving toward fulfilling a perfect salvation for us sinners.

Remember, Hebrews 2:10 goes like this, "It was fitting that he for whom and by whom all things exist in bringing many sons to glory should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering." In other words, Jesus was fulfilling everything that the Father saw as fitting in becoming a Savior for sinners.

Where we failed in our test, someone must completely succeed and then offer himself as the founder of our salvation so that if we trust him and we're united to him, his success in becoming a perfectly obedient person is counted as our obedience and our success. And there's one more clue in Hebrews 2:10 in answer to Chris's question about what's the ultimate goal?

What's Jesus up to? What's God up to in putting Jesus through this learning of obedience through suffering? And the answer is, it is ultimately for the glory of God. Listen again. "For it was fitting for God, for whom all things exist, for whom are all things, it was fitting for that particular God to bring many sons to glory by perfecting Christ through sufferings." In other words, there was something about God's doing it this way that was peculiarly fitting for God to get the maximum glory for whom all things exist.

So this is the way of saving sinners that would show that all things, including the death of Christ, are done for the sake of the glory of God. And that's exactly the connection Jesus makes between his obedience and the Father's glory in John 17.4. He says, "I glorified you, Father, on earth, having accomplished the work you gave me to do." So my ultimate answer to Chris's question as to why Christ grew and why he learned obedience and why he was perfected through suffering is that beyond becoming a perfect Savior for us, which he did, he also glorified God more fully than any other way of salvation would have done.

Amen, that is glorious truth in some really amazing and profound New Testament texts. Thank you, Pastor John. Well, July is fast approaching, and that means for those of us in the States, Independence Day is fast approaching as well, and tomorrow we're gonna step back from this really crazy political season to look at the topic of patriotism in the Christian life.

I am your host Tony Ranke, thanks for listening to the podcast and for making it a part of your daily routine. Pastor John and I will see you tomorrow.