Hello, everybody. It's Sam from the Financial Samurai podcast. And this episode I have a special guest with me, Farnoosh Tarabi, who is the author of A Healthy State of Panic coming out October 3rd, 2023. Say hello. Hello, everybody. Sam, I'm such a fan. I loved when you came on So Money, and I'm honored to meet now, you know, try to repay the favor somehow on your show.

I hope I'm as good as you were on So Money. No, no, no. Thank you for supporting my book, Buy This, Not That. It was great, and I'm glad it's over. But how about you? You know, you've been working on this book since for a while now. Well, honestly, I say it's the culmination of my 40 plus years being alive and putting one foot in front of the other.

This book is about money, but it's also about so many things because as you know, when we talk about money, we are talking about life. We are talking about relationships and work and our relationship to money, how we were raised, our childhoods. And so, yeah, I'm excited to bring this book to everybody.

It's been nine years since I've published. This is my fourth book, but I've waited, I guess, all this time because I needed it to sort of unpack the years and the lessons learned. And what I discovered is that, you know, as I've been podcasting and writing and being in the personal finance space for a really long time, one of the biggest questions I get is sort of like, "How did you become you?

How did you know how to make certain decisions in your life?" And even on my podcast, I have a show, an episode I dedicate every week to people asking me questions, and the questions are not just about money. It's about everything. I think people somehow, for some reason, trust me with a lot of important questions in their lives, their crossroads.

And I think when I sort of examine my own journey and what has helped navigate me, the truth of it is that I'm a terrified woman, Sam. I'm a scared woman. And the world's a scary place, and I accept that. And I have an early education in fear as the daughter of immigrants.

And so I think that the thesis here, as I was developing the book, I was like, "I think the thesis is that fear is my superpower. How about that? How about them apples?" And then I just had so many stories to back it up. And not just mine, but people who have graced the podcast who have perhaps not even unknowingly realized on the show they realized when we talk about it, like, "Oh my gosh, I did the really hard thing while I was scared.

I was scared and still did the thing." And so unpacking that, exploring that, realizing that maybe fear was fuel. Maybe fear was the wisdom you needed. It gave you a sense of who you were at the time and how to make a really aligned, self-aligned decision. And so, yeah, that was a longer answer probably than you were anticipating, but you'll learn quickly that I don't give short answers.

>> What are some of the fears or the most common fears that you've discovered or your own fears that have prevented you but that also have propelled you towards your financial success, career success, parental success and so forth? >> Well, fear is abundant and it is a universal feeling, but it is very personal to everyone.

I mean, what I tried to do in the book was not just talk about fear as this monolith, but to your point, like there are many different types of fears. We don't demystify it. We say it's just this thing and we should ignore it. We should be fearless. But I think if you really examine it, there are these specific types of fears.

And like I said, there are many, many, but for the book and how I designed the book was based on what I felt not only was something that I've experienced in the department of fear, but I think is to some extent relatable to a lot of people. And so there's the fear of rejection is the opening chapter in the book.

And that's something that I think as young people, as children especially, that's one of our first acquaintances with fear. We want to be liked, we want to be popular, we want to be accepted. And then there's the fear of loneliness, which also in some ways for me at least did source in childhood.

But as we know, it is an epidemic now in adulthood. It is a real, real problem. Then I talk about FOMO because you can't talk about the current day and modern life without exploring FOMO and the fear of missing out. There's the fear of exposure, which is a chapter that I almost didn't write.

I was afraid of the chapter, if you believe, I was afraid of writing about this fear because I didn't want it to be misunderstood. I think I did a good job by the end of it. But this is the fear of being found out for who you really are in front of an audience that may not be accepting, that may not be patient, that may not use that information to support you, but rather to use it against you.

And there are many examples that I share in that chapter and the ones that really for me were exemplary of this is, I mean, I'm Iranian. I was born there. My parents are both Iranians. I'm 100% Iranian and I was raised, born originally on the East Coast in Worcester, Massachusetts, where I didn't really share a likeness in many of my friends, at least not culturally or religiously or any of that.

So I got a little triggered when people are like, "Where are you from?" Because I don't know the motivation behind that question. And when that fear of being exposed, let's say, for being different pops up, it rears its head, it's not telling me to hide. It's not telling me to lie.

Of course, it's not telling me to deny him who I am, but it's saying, "Take a minute and recognize the motivation behind that question, who is asking and why they want to know this personal information about you." And whether it's about an aspect of your identity or it is your finances, I think that we owe it to ourselves to hold what is sacred to ourselves.

And until we feel safe and until we feel like we are in a trustworthy community, that we go there. I mean, this chapter really came about because we live in a world where being vulnerable is what we think is like the most courageous thing. And I believe that to an extent, but I think that that narrative has gotten confusing over the years, especially with social media and reality TV.

We feel like we have to talk about all the things. I mean, even in our profession, Sam, the number of people who share their revenue streams, like the actual dollars behind what they make. And I love that transparency, but I think it should be an individual choice. You should not feel pressured to share all the minutia of your life because you think that's what's going to win you acceptance.

Unfortunately, not all circles are inviting and warm. And I mean, I was at a conference on stage and someone said, "How much do you make?" Now, it was a conference about content creation and we were talking specifically about earning your worth. So, touche to the person in the audience who asked me that.

And I was like, "You should be transparent." She's like, "Okay, well, how much do you make?" And I'm in front of 100, 200 people. I don't know who they are. Is this the time and place to be talking about all the money that I have in my bank account?

And I said, "I respect the question. It's not that I don't want to share it, but I think that if you really want to know because there's something on the line for you that this information would be helpful to you, let's get a coffee after this." And so we met downstairs in the Starbucks and I invited others who wanted to come into that conversation.

But I think in that moment, I was scared. Oh, my gosh. The fear could have just made me blab as fear sometimes does without this recognition of like, "Oh, hey fear, you're here. What do you want me to do? How can I protect myself in this moment?" And I protected myself.

I'm very proud of that moment. Maybe I couldn't take credit for it in the moment, but that was definitely how fear showed up for me that day. And not only just that day, but since that coffee with that one person, we have continued that dialogue about how much we make, what we earn, what we charge, as I found that it was very helpful for me to be connected to her too.

So there's so many gifts with fear that we sometimes undermine, overlook, discount. And this book is about rebranding fear because we all fear things. And I think to be fearless is a strange privilege that you have. I'm very well aware of risks and the costs and what things cost and how to afford things.

And I don't know. I don't want or need to go and do all the things in the name of fearlessness. Yeah. I have a good answer for you if someone asks you about how much you make in the future. You just say, "Well, I make between a dollar and a billion dollars.

Somewhere there." I love that. I'm going to steal that. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. That's great. That's great. It's a fear. I mean, I've definitely felt a lot of fear doing this podcast, writing a book, putting my thoughts out there on the internet. And the funny thing is the larger you grow, the more negativity you attract, also positivity for sure.

But even if you have 1% negativity and you have a large audience, it kind of beats you up a little. So do you ever have times? So for listeners, you have an amazing podcast. I think you have over a thousand episodes, So Money podcast. How do you deal with that kind of criticism and the negativity as you keep on going forward wanting to keep providing value?

It's such a good question and I address this in the book because it comes up quite a bit. You can imagine, I do put myself out there. So you do have to have a little bit of a thick skin. And I remember when I was starting out in the online space and I would, for some reason, don't do this anyway.

Don't read the blog comments. I mean, just ... And I used to work at Yahoo. So you know those weren't the most ... Those weren't high quality, let's just say. That's pretty intense. It was my manager who said, "For every negative review, there's probably five people that loved what you did and agreed with what you did, but they just didn't write a review because that's just not the nature of reviews." Yelp, for example, right?

It's mostly people who are upset with the product or the service. But probably exponentially more people were fine with it, but they just didn't think it would be helpful or wasn't worth their time to write a review. They weren't triggered to write a review, let's just say. So I've known that all along, but even still, I do admit that fear shows up a lot in my work, especially when I take on stances and something that you and I even talked about on my show about how I believe firmly in female financial independence.

I mean, I'm a feminist and I think we can all agree that women deserve to make as much as men, to earn their value. Definitely. I'm preaching to the choir here, I know. But if I believe this, then I can't actually also say to women, "You should opt out of working forever to raise your children." I think that that is a risk, right?

So many people do it. And I understand you have to take time out of the workforce and sometimes you just want to take time out of the workforce and you should do what you want to do. But whenever I am asked, "What do I think about people," and this applies to dads too, who have done the math and they realize, "Oh, well, I don't make childcare as exceeding my income or it's about the same as my income and I should just stay home." I say, "That is not untrue math, but it also should not be the only thing that you consider as you do the calculus for whether or not to leave the workforce for an indefinite period." "Have a plan," I say, or "Have savings, try to have savings." So I say these things and of course, I'm sure you'll get some hate mail, sorry, in advance.

People are like, "Oh, you're just so anti-family," or the list goes on. And I have gotten a little bit better at receiving those criticisms, but what I've also learned is that my response, my fear is that, I fear of being misunderstood, right? I fear being sort of branded as like this villain.

But what I've learned is that the follow-up to those criticisms and that place of fear, my job is to protect my reputation and protect my integrity and to clarify because maybe this person didn't understand and maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining. And so I say, "Look, it's coming from a good place.

It's coming from the place of me wanting to ensure that all people, particularly women who have been stripped of their financial freedoms for generations, do what they can to protect those financial freedoms." And that's it. And so to deny, to say that there is no risk in not working and taking care of your kids, there's no financial risk, I think is fraught.

And that's all I'm saying. At the end of the day, it's their choice, but you asked me, so there's my opinion. I will also say that with fear of exposure in that case, I'm exposing my ideas and worrying about the backlash, I'm very specific and deliberate about where I share those things.

I do it on the podcast. I do it in books. I do it amongst people that have come to me with true open-mindedness. I don't go into comments sections and start arguing with people about it. You know what I mean? I have realized that when the fear of exposure shows up, the important thing is that you read the room and you become more deliberate about where you share your information.

I know that people who show up for my podcast, as they do on your show, they're committed. They don't always agree with you, but they are more or less there to have a quality back and forth. And they're respectful. And I love when people say, "I didn't totally agree with what you said, but I understand where you're coming from and here's my side of the story." Beautiful.

Same with books. People have paid money to read my books or they went to the library and checked out the book. There was an effort in acquiring that book. And so I have to believe that that is an audience member who is more willing to be patient and open-minded.

And so I feel safer to talk about some of these more triggering things and these more controversial things where I feel like we're not going to end up in a brawl. There won't be pitchforks. Yeah. Well, for the record, I feel that financial dependence on someone is kind of the worst feeling.

And I absolutely believe a man and woman should have separate and joint accounts because before you guys met, you guys are independent adults. And it's kind of weird to depend on one person financially for the rest of your lives. Bad things happen all the time. The divorce rate is about 50%.

And if you haven't been working for 8, 9, 10 years, raising your child and suddenly you're thrown back into the workforce, you might be in a little bit of hurt financially. So always think about yourself, protect yourself, obviously protect your family as well. Thank you for echoing that. It's really important for men to share that message too.

I feel like this is a conversation that goes on and on and on in women's circles. And it's really important that everybody recognizes that when mothers and women have financial independence, it's good for everybody. It's like win for everybody. She wins, her children win, the family unit wins. And I get it.

There are going to be periods of time where you don't work and don't want to work. But to never say never. I'm never going to go back into the workforce. I think that's not a safe plan. And too often, I mean, the reason I also say this stuff isn't just my guesswork.

I get so many testimonials from men and women that say, "I wish I had just maybe saved some money before I decided to stay home or I continue to have a revenue stream or had a plan to get back into the workforce, continue to have relationships with colleagues." There's no downside there, folks.

As a father of a three and a half year old daughter, I am definitely excited about raising her and seeing her grow up and mature. As a mother and as a woman, what are some of the things that us dads or parents should think about as we raise our daughters to be adults?

Well, one thing that I have learned from my guests on So Money, one of the questions I often ask them and the women in particular will say, when I ask them, "What's one thing you wish you had learned about money growing up?" And a lot of my women guests might say something like, "I wish I was told that personal finance isn't just about budgeting and saving, that it is also about investing, that entrepreneurship is a viable path and that there are no limits to what I can do and where I can show up in the financial world." I think that even if the message at home is positive or neutral about money with your kids, the culture doesn't do a great job.

So you almost have to over-index at home because the culture still depicts and paints a portrait of a very traditional model where money is a man's domain and men are the ones who are earning more or all of the money and more interested or better at investing, which as we know is not even true.

More women are increasingly breadwinners in their families, more women in their 20s own property than men, they're the same ages, women are actually better investors. So I think that to the extent that you can repeat these facts to your daughters and sons, I think is important because the culture is yet, it's slow to recognize that they are feeding our generation, our next generation with falsehoods and myths that is continuing to perpetuate this dynamic where women don't feel confident and we wonder why.

Women don't feel confident about money, we wonder why. It's because they're just not invited as much into these conversations and they're told that this is not their domain whether it's directly or indirectly they're told this. So I think that's a big one and I have a boy and a girl, I have a son who's 9 and a daughter who's 6 and it's interesting to see even this early on their unique relationships to money and when they each get let's say birthday money or some like tooth fairy money like what each of them instinctively does with that money.

Yeah, what do they do? And so my son will immediately want to go to Target and my daughter will save it. I went into her room the other day because I needed to pay our cleaning team. I was short like 5 or 10 dollars and she just had a stash of, she's 6, she had a stash of money.

I don't want to say, look, she's a smart cookie but I don't think she's like, "Oh, I better save my money because I'm going to buy a bike one day." I think she just puts it away and forgets it because she's just got her hands on a lot of things.

But I think that when you recognize certain inclinations in your kids around money, have that be a learning moment, a teachable moment or a discussion point. I think that's interesting. I guess the takeaway is watch your kids. They will tell you what they need to learn. Some kids need to be more schooled in things like saving whereas others maybe if they're already good teachers, maybe we should talk to them about conscious spending and investing.

It's interesting. Kids are always full of surprises, right? Right. I do like what you say about being aware of basically our biases, our blind spots in terms of parenting and how we treat boys and girls differently if at all and to over index if we find that we are deficient in one way.

I know that when I see my daughter, I just want to hug her and squeeze her and kiss her. Then when I see my son, I want to hug him and squeeze him too but we kind of are more rough and tumble a little bit. It's just a different dynamic but I think if we can treat them equally and approach money equally and explain why we do the things that we do with our money, I think that can go a long way.

Yes. Yeah. It's so good. We could do many multiple episodes on kids and money which I have. But one of the takeaways I love, one of my favorite experts when it comes to money and kids is Susan Beacham. She was the first person I profiled for Money Magazine when I became a writer on staff years ago.

She was at the time based in Chicago. She started a financial literacy company for kids. Now imagine this is like 2000 or like 1999. She was ahead of it and she took her kids to a McDonald's shareholders meeting in Chicago and then later took them to McDonald's and kind of explained.

This was like kindergartners I think. But then she developed the Money Savvy Pig which you've probably seen. It's a piggy bank that's see-through that has four slots, save, spend, donate, invest. When I've had her on the show and she's like a lifelong friend and I've had her on the show and I said obviously she has many tips.

But the one thing that always stays with me is that this idea because so many adults grew up with this mentality of financial scarcity, Sam, like I'll never have enough or I can't afford it or I'll never reach that goal. It starts young. It starts sometimes at home when a child comes to us and say, "I'd like a bike or I'd like to go get tennis lessons or I need money for X, Y, or Z." We say to them, "No, we don't have the money or we can't afford that." And maybe you can but that's just what you say to think you want to just stop the conversation.

But the truth may be that you have other priorities. So tell them the truth. Tell them the truth. Explain that I love that you have this goal. At the moment, this is not something that our family can prioritize and explain. Go deep. Kids are more capable of absorbing this stuff than we give them credit for.

They want reasons. Why, why, why, why, why? They want to know. And rather than give them a dead end to that desire, that wanting for something, make them put it on a list. Or if they can't write yet, have them draw it. And what it does is it when it recognizes the wanting.

Because here's the other thing I've had guests on my show who've talked about patriarchy and women and just how women have for so long been told it's just not appropriate to want for things. That it's not virtuous to want money, to want success. And so that starts young too.

And when we tell, especially when a girl hears, "No, it's not right to want that or you can't have that or we can't have that or we can't afford that." It sort of tells her like, "Maybe that's not appropriate or I shouldn't want that or I'll never have that." And instead, we want to keep the door open and just let her and him know that right now this isn't a priority for our family, but let's find a way to save for it.

What can we do? What can you do? What are some chores you can do? Or what are the holidays that are coming up? I mean, I'm guilty of this too sometimes because sometimes you just want to shut down the conversation. And kids forget things. Let's not forget that. They want things all the time.

I think recognizing it, respecting their wants, but also recognizing that in two days' time, they will be on to something else and you're off the hook. Trust that. Trust that. I've learned that over the years. How do you juggle the things that you do? So motherhood, you're taking your kids to camp today.

You talked about that and then you've got the podcast and then you've got the book. You've got to market the book. It seems like a lot of work and it seems overwhelming. So how do you manage it all and do you manage it all and do you have some tips for people who are struggling with everything as well?

If you were on Instagram today, you may have noticed I was running to this podcast because I went for a stroll this morning for some me time. I was like, "Oh, I'm going to go for a walk into town, return some library books, get a coffee." And then I was like, "Oh no, 20 minutes till the podcast." And it's about an 18-minute walk from where I was so I'm starting to power walk.

And then I posted that on Instagram. I was like, "This is also good content." So this is the life, a day in the life of a woman who's rushing to a podcast. But no, I mean, man, I've been in this industry for 20 years. So I've learned along the way.

I learned very early on the importance of help, asking for help. I was actually an assistant. My first job was I was assisting a financial expert. And before that, we maybe called them influencers or experts but this person was a very famous, well-known at the time, money expert. She had written many books.

She was on the Today Show all the time. She was an editor. And I had the amazing job of being able to witness all the things that she did, how she did it. She had two kids and was married at the time and all these amazing accomplishments. And I realized what I was doing for her, right, to support her.

And so when I grew in my career and felt like I had reached a place where I was, again, really busy like this, like my former boss was and doing all these things, books and television and all that, I hired someone like me that was my former self I hired for a period of time.

And that was immensely helpful. I think that for me, what I've learned is that you don't need consistent full-time help all the time. But when your life speeds up or when you're really pivoting to something big and different, that it's really important to maybe have a consistent team. And I've never had big teams, people say they've got 20 people or 11 interns.

And that just gives me a lot of anxiety, to be honest, because I don't like to manage. I don't like to tell people what to do. I don't like to micromanage. And so that's on me. Maybe other people can do that. I prefer to just maybe have some freelancers who are contractors who work for me.

Again, I did have a full-timer at one point. Life teaches you a lot about what's worth wasting your time on and what's not. So I like to think that part of what helps me manage my day these days is just recognizing all the failures in the past and all the time wasters and what I can do versus what I can't do, what I like to do versus what I don't like to do.

I just hired a virtual assistant because I realized there's a lot of busy work around a book launch that is important but can't be done only by me. And so it's important for me to know exactly what I need this person to do before I hire them. And I waited and people are like, "You don't have an assistant?" I said, "I'm just not sure what I would have this person do yet.

I have a vague idea, but let me get a little bit closer to the demands. And then I want to be able to hit the ground running with this virtual assistant." And so that's been great for a couple of months now. And I'm not hiring a publicist this time for the book launch, which might shock people.

I'm leaning on the in-house publishers publicist who's fantastic, Holly. I'm leaning on my virtual assistant and I'm leaning on my 20 years of working in the media and all the relationships that I had. And what has helped to get these to transpire, these opportunities is just starting early. I've learned that.

You don't contact a podcaster or any news outlet or any media outlet no later than I would say two months, three months out because you don't know other people's timelines and schedules. I have had a nanny since my kids were born. No longer we don't have full-time childcare or even part-time childcare anymore.

The kids are in school and they have afterschool things. We both work from home. That's a privilege to be able to not have that commute and to be accessible to like throw in laundry and pick up your kids. I wouldn't trade that workflow for anything. I mean, if someone said to me, "We'll pay you millions of dollars and you'll have to come into New York City every week," I'd say, "Could we throw in a car service?" And maybe, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't think I would do it, Sam. I'm not 25 anymore. I really don't know how people did it before the pandemic. No other option. It wasn't an option and I guess we just didn't know a better life. And of course, our employers wouldn't have budged either at the time.

I don't know. Does that help? Does that fill in some blanks for you? Sure. Yeah. Get help. I cry a lot in the shower. Is that also, does that count? I release a lot of my trauma. I take power walks. I lift weights. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Yeah. You run around, lift weights and get those emotions out and talk to people.

I think talking to people is good therapy too. Very good therapy because we're all going through something and if we can empathize and connect with people who go through similar things as we do, I think it feels great. Yes. Oh my gosh. My mother is, well, she and I are only 19 years apart.

So she's in her 60s. That's a blessing. I know. Really it is. I mean, she's, it didn't always feel that way. But I think I have really over the years appreciated our closeness in age. And I love having women friends who are in their 50s and 60s and 70s.

I think that is my advice to everybody is to find an elder in your life that you can talk to consistently because, and my mother used to do this when I was little. She, I say in my book, she loves old, old things. You know, she loves old movies.

She loves grandparents. She just loves to be around older people. And I think it's because she appreciates the wisdom so much. And I appreciate one thing my mother said to me recently, which is that as you get older, Farnoosh, there are only a few things that matter in terms of your health, your spirit, your longevity.

And she said one is socializing. My mother's always been a social butterfly. I'm, people think I'm an extrovert and I guess I, I'm an actress at heart. I get on stage and I will do the part. I will play the role and I will play it from the heart and the soul.

But I think afterwards I'm so exhausted. That has to mean that I'm not. I don't know. I mean, you've been on TV, you do the podcast. It's a lot of work. I'm really great at connecting with people. I've been trained well since a kid. We moved a lot. I just always was the new girl.

So I immediately have to find ways to find connection. And so that's definitely like one of my superpowers, I think. It was out of necessity, a survival instinct in me perhaps. And so I do say that that is there, but I love just like being in my pajamas at home and, and I was supposed to go to a pool party tomorrow and they just canceled and part of me is a little sad, but I'm like, oh my God, I have the whole day back.

That sounds great. So I got to be more proactive about socializing. And so my mother, you know, she helps to remind me of those things. It's important. And she's like, you know, your, your health comes first. And back to parenting. I think it's so important for parents to put themselves first.

It is really, really hard. Not all the time we can do this, but to at least acknowledge that your feelings matter. Your energy is not an infinite resource. You have to protect your energy and your time when you're happy. You know, this sounds cliche. I think the kids are happy and vice versa.

They say you're only as happy, you're only as happy as your saddest kid. Yeah, no, that's true. It's very true. And I think it's very reciprocal. I think that my kids feed off my energy and vice versa. So you, everybody's important. The whole, every person in the family deserves equal attention and opportunity.

Yeah. When, when we're down in my household, our saying is we're well for my wife and me, we're doing the best that we can. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, if we're doing the best that we can, you can't do better. You can. I mean, I talk about fear of failure in the book and what it's actually trying to help us recognize is that maybe you have to, one, there's many things, but maybe it's that you have to redefine your definition of success because you're after the wrong things and you're feeling failure because this isn't what you were actually meant to go out and achieve.

But as far as parenting, I mean, I always, I feel, I feel like a failure every day with, I mean, there's a moment at least, you know, where I'm like, "Oh, I messed that up." Well, you know, that's going to leave a mark. But there's this crazy story in the book and I've shared this online and I think it resonated, but one time I sent my kids to the wrong birthday party and left them there for a couple of hours with their babysitter.

And my first thought was, "Oh my God, I'm the worst parent." Second thought was, "I should do this more often." Because sometimes what I realized that from that experience is like the kids still had a great time. Nobody was hurt. We did call the venue to follow up and make sure that we hadn't inadvertently charged this family like extra money for these two by two rando kids who showed up.

Extra pizza. Yeah. And I realized this, it was a soccer venue. I was like, "This place has birthday parties around the clock on Saturdays and Sundays. I live down the street. Like if I ever need just peace and quiet, I'm dropping my kids off with some gifts and they're going to go hang out with some random birthday kid." It's a joke, but not really.

But the real takeaway there is that sometimes failing is the point because the thing that really just transpired from all of that was laughter and recognizing that life is just so crazy sometimes and as long as the kids are okay, nothing else matters. Right. Right. Now when we talk about failure, but I'd love to get your definition of success and how do you know whether you're successful or not?

How do you measure that as a podcaster, author, mother, someone who is focused on their finances? What does success mean to you? I think that a really key part of what I have believed my success to be and is, is sustainability. I had to learn this, Sam. I felt like in my younger career, in my younger life, it was all about the wins.

I want to accumulate success, a win here, a win there, do this, that, do that, and these one and dones and I wanted to collect all these trophies. But true success is when you do something and of course you love it and you feel aligned in this and it was like, "Okay, this is like I'm happy obviously," but that you can continue to do this for a long time.

That it doesn't escape you. It doesn't, you don't get tired of it. It doesn't tire you out. And for me, like the podcast, it's been about nine years. What? I've been writing books for, this is my fourth book, 16 years. So I think the common thread there is that when you feel success, a huge part of that is knowing that this is the kind of success you can experience for a long time.

Your lifestyle. It becomes, it starts to define you in like the best way. I still love the trophies. I still love like these little opportunities or these little public displays of success. I used to think like as long as other people see me as successful, that's success, right? As long as my parents are proud or as long as I'm hitting these sort of, these wins that the public, like getting on television, having a TV show, been there, done that.

But and those were successful moments, but the true successes for me are the ones that keep ricocheting and coming back and are sustainable. Because then I feel like this was meant for me. This is actually working for me. Yeah, I like that because we know about One Hit Wonders in the music industry and great, great songs.

And then I always wonder to myself, okay, you have the musical talent, the voice, the creativity. What happened? Why did you disappear? What happened? What happened? And everyone's got their own narrative. I think that at the end of the day, if you want to put one foot in front of the other and feel like life's working out, you have to commit to a narrative that works for you.

I think it's very easy to look at maybe, let's go back to the singer who didn't get a record deal or didn't have more than one hit. That was still a cool thing that they did. And maybe the narrative there, I would, because otherwise I'd be like, "Oh, I'm not successful.

I'm not as good as all these other artists." Guess what? You got to do the thing. You probably learned a lot and that will inform you in your next step in life. And there's no shame in that. There should not be any regret in that. It should not make you feel less than.

The good news is your life now has opened up for other successes and other things to pursue. When a TV show that I would do wouldn't get renewed, been there many times. I had talked about one hit wonders. For me, it's like one hit non-wonders. These were just shows that ...

I mean, look, I was like, "Not everyone gets to do a TV show." So that in and of itself is spectacular. I'm going to focus on what's cool and unique about these opportunities and a lot of shows I would say to myself, it's a lot of conditioning. It's like furnish.

Some shows record and then they never air. So at least I got to air my shows. There's always like an at least, at least, at least. And when they wouldn't get renewed, of course it was crushing because you work so hard and it's just disappointing. But in my book I write about when my show Follow the Leader on CNBC did not get renewed, I realized that I gave it my best.

And for some things to endure, a lot of stars have to align. I'm a star, but not all the stars came with me. You know what I mean? I showed up and did the work, but the network gave us a crummy time slot. They didn't really market the show.

The viewers were expecting more drama, which didn't feel authentic to what we were filming. So they didn't get it. And so, okay, it's not made for television, but it was cool. I still, you can't take those experiences away from me. And do you know what? When I got the call that they weren't renewing the show, I said, "All right, I'm going to pivot.

I'm going to find another success. I'm going to find something else to do that is more within my control that will feel like a win." And it was having our daughter. Because the truth is while filming a show, traveling, all that stress, there's no baby making during those weeks.

There's no baby raising. I did not see my husband or my son for weeks at a time. And so I didn't feel like it was a responsible time to get pregnant again or attempt to get pregnant again. And so when that door closed, and I talk about this in my fear of endings chapter, when a door closes, that fear of maybe never experiencing that again is normal.

But the opportunity that this fear wants you to identify is where is the next door? What is the door that maybe has been open, but you've been too afraid to walk through it? And I was afraid of trying to get pregnant, but then I was like, "You know what?

No more. I'm going to do this." And our daughter was born the following year. Why were you afraid of getting pregnant? Well, it was just because I didn't want to be pregnant on a set where I was expected to be flying around. And it shouldn't have maybe prevented me, but I wasn't getting the sense that this was the kind of production company that was going to work around my needs, let's just say.

It's still a real ... I mean, I opened the book with "The World's a Scary Place," Sam. And I like to think that everybody is on my team and will cater to me. But no, the world doesn't revolve around me. I got to be looking out for myself. And I knew that my time would come to have another kid one day, God willing, but I just felt like it wasn't a responsible time to bring another kid in the world if this show were to continue.

And at the time, I was prioritizing that show above family. I'll be completely honest. I was ... well, not my current family, but the idea of growing my family. I wanted to see this through. Could I ... here's a little behind the scenes of television work. When you get the first season and you're a talent or you're a cast member, you have very little leverage.

At least that's been my experience. And I think that's unfortunately more of a female experience to say, "I'm going to call the shots," or, "I want to get pregnant and everyone's going to have to film around me. You might get replaced." And so second season, you get renewed, different story, different story.

You can get a bigger budget for things. Suddenly you're getting wardrobe. Suddenly you're getting some more accommodations. Suddenly you're saying, "I'm pregnant," and everyone goes, "Okay, we're going to have to start moving things around and make sure she's comfortable." And so I was saying, "Okay, if we get renewed and once I know the schedule, maybe then I'll cross that bridge to see if I want to expand the family." Wow, we're really getting deep here.

You just really opened a Pandora's box for me here. But that's ... those were all the things that were running through my mind at the time. But yeah, no regrets. I think this is really important to be aware of because I asked that question, "Why would you fear getting pregnant?" And anybody who's gone through pregnancy knows that it can be a very up and down experience.

It's not an easy experience. Giving birth itself is not an easy experience either. And for men, we don't think about it as much because we don't have to carry the child. We don't have to worry about our hormones changing, our bodies changing, our energy, having to go pee every 30 minutes, all that stuff.

And so I think it's important for employers to recognize difficulties of familyhood and pregnancy and also how something like 20% of attempted pregnancies end in miscarriage. And this is also very important to be aware of. And so it's good to spread the word and spread the knowledge. Thank you, Sam.

I talk about ... my first pregnancy was very difficult. I did have a miscarriage. I do talk about it in the book. It was gutting. And I think what I learned coming out of that experience, one of the things, I learned many things, is that you must, you must recognize your grief and you must be patient with yourself.

Society wants us to move on. And first of all, at the time, nobody was really talking about miscarriages. Now we do. So I didn't feel like I had a community and I felt really ashamed about it. I felt like I had done something wrong. I had done something wrong with my body.

My body wasn't working. And I cried a lot. I was really sad. My mother and my best friends would say, "It wasn't meant to be." And all these things, they try to make you feel better. And it's like, "I'm just going through a phase. Can I just grieve?" And that was important for me.

So now when I meet a woman or a couple who has gone through it or is going through it, there's really little I can offer other than just, "Please be patient with yourselves." And however it's happened, whenever the miscarriage occurs, every unborn child is important to remember and grieve.

And I think we just don't give ourselves enough grace and there's just too much shame and, well, a misuse of fear around that where we think if we talk about it, there's the fear of, I don't know, triggering somebody or maybe being misunderstood or, "Here we go again. Someone's going to tell me something I don't want to hear." But do you.

Do you. And try to the extent that you can not get sucked into all the noise around, you know, "Well, look, we live in a society that's obsessed with happiness." You know, raise your hand if you grew up and every time you cried or every time you got sad, someone said, "Don't cry.

Don't be sad. What are you sad for? Why are you crying?" It's like, "Let's recognize the feelings, people. They're all valid." And that's really just what I'm saying is that if you're not feeling happy in the moment, it's okay. I mean, everybody goes through something, folks. So, you know, I think, yeah, be patient.

Just be there for our friends and family. So important. One of the things I really love about your podcast is that you have a lot of different voices and that's something that I want to do is get many different voices on Financial Samurai podcast as well. What are some of the things that we can do more to uplift voices that aren't heard traditionally in the media or in books or whatever?

It just seems like it's a tough world out there. How do we help others succeed as well? Well, as a journalist, I've become increasingly deliberate and this didn't just start a couple of years ago. It's been for majority of my career because I would see like all the people quoted in the media were largely all the same people over and over and over again.

It's like, oh, this guy again or that man again, that John again. And then people would say, well, I mean, there just aren't as many women financial experts or there just aren't as many people of color financial experts. And I'm like, no, they're out there. There's a lot of them.

And it takes like five minutes to do a little bit of searching to maybe find them because the SEO in Google is not working in their favor because all the other people are getting all the media and the press. So they do exist. I think that I'm always thrilled to meet somebody that has a unique perspective in personal finance and without hesitation, I'm like, please come on, so money.

I think that there is no shortage of ideas that should be spread and perspectives that need to be shared. And I love it. It's one of my favorite parts of being a podcaster is bringing fresh voices to the forefront and learning from them. And it is my honor to do this.

I don't think of it as my job anymore. I think of it as like my calling, my honor. Advice to everybody is just ask, ask. You don't know everybody of course, but ask around who's somebody that I should talk to, who's somebody that I should put out there, who's someone that I should help promote.

They're out there and they may not be the best self advocates because, you know, again, the world's a scary place. So be their advocates and be their advocates when they're not in the room, whether you're at work or you're amongst friends, someone's asking like, who would be good for this or who would be, you know, I think it's important to talk up your peers, your friends who are maybe not like everybody else, women, women of color, LGBTQ, disabled Americans.

I think it's important that we remember that everybody is amazing. And just because maybe you haven't heard of them doesn't mean that they don't have something spectacular to offer. In fact, it's just the opposite. Yeah. No, thanks for that. I see both sides of everything. And it's interesting when I was doing my book and I was looking for the book blurbs, I intentionally try to look for different voices for the book blurbs.

Because I look at the like a lot of the bestselling books, it's all the same people. It's very homogenous. So I think it's, yeah, if you want to help, be intentional to help people that you think are under heard, underrepresented. Sam, what can we do to reconfigure some of these bestseller lists that seem to just love the same folks over and over again?

You know, it's the same brand of people. I feel like publishing is so hard to break into. And once you even do that, then to get into this next breakthrough of being on a bestseller list, it's just, I feel like the odds are always stacked against anybody who's not named John.

Well, you know, just listeners, just I guess inside baseball, not really, is I think something like 84% of authors from the big five publishing houses are white. And so which leaves 16% for all other minorities. And minorities make up a bigger percentage than 16% of the American population. So the odds are stacked against folks of color.

And also the industry is very white. And so you just have to keep on fighting. And you have to also just recognize those are the statistics. The one positive thing I think is that the percentages are changing to be more reflective of the US population and demographics. And if you actually can break through and be one of the, you know, 14 or 16% who get a book deal, for example, as a minority, then that's pretty impressive in itself, just for that fact.

But there's a lot of progress to be made. And it's very competitive. So if you're at the top, and you've already got your network and everything, it's easier to keep on getting ahead. But you got to keep on fighting to try to break through. Well said. Yeah, I'm hopeful.

I think the industry is definitely, I mean, like I said earlier, it's been nine years since I published. And even just based on who's editing me in within the publishing industry, the publisher, like, and the people who are showing up on that team on the calls, I'm like, oh, my gosh, it's like the UN.

The UN is here. You know, I love it. I love it. Yeah. And here's another thing for listeners to understand is that there are many, many qualified people of all different types. They just don't get that opportunity. And I'm just going to say, like, for example, let's say you're the CEO of some major corporation, and you get paid 50 to $100 million a year.

Yes, they probably do a great job, which is why they got there. But I will guarantee you that many other people can do just as great of a job, if not better, and make a similar amount or less. It's just being given the opportunity. And so one of the things that I like about you, Farnoosh, is that you've gone out there and created your own opportunity.

And I hope more listeners, if they see the gatekeeper, they can try to get through the gate. But if you can't, for some reason, try to make your own opportunities, because nobody is stopping you now, thanks to the internet and technology. Yeah. You've got to go find your people.

They're out there. It's a little bit more work, unfortunately. We've got to make some extra steps. But that's what I love about fear, is that it is equitable. It is accessible to all of us. We all have this abundant natural resource pumping through our veins. Rather than see this as an excuse to not go do the thing, or freeze, or doubt yourself, take a minute and recognize, how did this fear show up?

What is it trying to get me to protect? And how can I do that in a way that is safe and feels good to me? And every time I've asked fear these questions, my fears these questions, it has led to more thoughtful responses from me. And it's not always that maybe I get this massive win, but I do feel much better.

I think that there is a world where you can be fearless, but until you get there, you have to respect your fears. You have to recognize them as valid emotions and just have a relationship with fear. We're so anti-fear in our culture that we don't think we can be fearful and courageous.

I doubt, I disagree. I think you can be fearful and brave. I think you can be scared and smart. I think you can be both and. I think we owe it to ourselves to be more patient with our fears. Yeah. Well, Farnoosh, this has been a great hour of discussion.

We could talk for many, many more hours, but I've got to send the kids to school as well. Oh, right, the kids. Oh, man. But congratulations on your book, A Healthy State of Panic, coming out October 3rd, 2016. 2023. Where can listeners pick up a copy? Thank you so much, Sam.

Well, if you're listening and you'd like to pre-order, you can go to ahealthystateofpanic.com where I've listed all of the booksellers. If you do order it before the pub date, I have a pre-order bonus, which is a three-video course, workbook, and you also get to read the intro before everybody else.

The program is designed to help you get a head start on the book, to get you a head start on specifically your financial fears. So if you're into that, the best thing to do is pre-order by October 2nd, and then you can get it from that same website, ahealthysateofpanic.com.

But however you like to read books, this will be available on audio as well and ebook, of course, and of course the hardcover. I look forward to hearing all your thoughts on the book. And thank you so much, Sam. This is a real treat to be with you. No, thank you so much, Farnoosh.

All right, folks, that's it for today's episode. And if you want to stay in touch, check out financialsamurai.com/news for my newsletter. Take care.