the two centurion cards the black cards i will just briefly run over them because i think it's interesting to understand what they have but i'm not going to spend a lot of time because i actually don't think they're that compelling i'll kind of go over them together they both have a ten thousand dollar initiation fee plus a five thousand dollar a year annual fee plus another five thousand dollar per authorized user fee from what i understand you need to be spending over 250 000 a year with amex to even be invited but i know lots of people who have spent that much and not been invited the primary thing you get from this aside from you know supposedly a much better concierge and much better travel advisors i've only probably known two or three people that have ever had the card or had a close friend with the card they haven't really been using those things as much because at that level of spend and at that level of income you probably have an assistant that can do a lot of that