On Monday, we talked about the relationship between Christian hedonism and historic reform theology. Today, we look at your fears and your hopes for this movement, Pastor John, when you're gone. The question comes in from a friend of the ministry who asks this, "Pastor John, it seems to me that after someone comes along with a paradigm-shifting theology or philosophy like you have done with Christian hedonism, one of two things can happen with the next generation that takes up the cause.

One, they can lose some of the balance of the original, provocatively overemphasizing certain aspects and minimizing certain qualifications or nuances and thereby distorting it. Or two, they can go deeper with the theology or philosophy, applying it to areas the original champion could not or did not. As you think about the future of Christian hedonism, Pastor John, when you're off the scene someday, are there A, some dangers that you would call the next generation to avoid, and B, some areas you hope they would explore in greater depth or application?

Pastor John, what would you say?" Pastor John Lutzer Let's do dangers first, because in a sense, you could say that what needs to be done positively is avoid the dangers. Dangers are everywhere, everywhere, and that's true with every single doctrine in the Bible. There are no truth claims that are not surrounded by potential distortions of that very truth.

So nothing unique about Christian hedonism here. Every single truth in the Bible is beset with imminent distortion by the deceptions of the human heart. So let me just name, what have I got here? I'm looking at my list. Eight. Okay, here we go. Eight dangers. One, there is the danger that people will begin to treat pleasure as the criterion of what is good.

If it brings pleasure, it is good, they will say. That's wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Instead, we ought to say that the Bible defines what is good objectively, and the path of that good ought, ought to give us pleasure and lead to pleasure. And the great quest of sanctification is to experience that pleasure in the doing of good.

Okay, that's danger number one. Number two, a related danger is that we would cease to pursue pleasure by seeking the transformation of our sinful preferences, and instead pursue pleasure by changing the Bible to fit our preferences. That's danger number two. Number three, there is the danger of losing the proper role of reason in shaping and governing the affections by comprehending the true meaning of the Scripture and applying it in a transforming way to our hearts.

It's no accident that even though my writings are shot through with an emphasis on the place of the affections in giving glory to God, I wrote a whole book called "Think! Think! Think!" Yes, think again! It is a great danger, and a frightening world in which people with strong emotions cannot be reasoned with according to a rationally comprehended authoritative text.

Oh, I'm reading right now a biography of General Grant, Ulysses S. Grant, and the season of slaughter from the Ku Klux Klan in the decade after the Civil War was horrific, and there was no recourse. They were irrational, like animals! And oh, what a horrible, dangerous, terrifying thing it is to be faced by a mob of unreasoning people who will not draw any just conclusions from proper premises.

So, think, think, think! Number four, there is the danger of minimizing the role of discipline and willpower in the pursuit of spontaneous joy and treating spontaneity as the very definition of authenticity, which it isn't. A great deal of life is lived by the fruit of the spirit called self-control, and if we put such a premium on spontaneous emotion as the only proper strategy for doing good, we will certainly go astray.

Number five, there is the danger of confusing natural emotions with supernatural affections. They overlap, and they penetrate into each other. They're not the same. And if we don't make the distinction properly between supernatural affections and natural emotions, we will soon reduce supernatural Christianity to naturalistic psychology. Number six, there is the danger of oversimplifying the complexities of the human soul and the complexities of the process of sanctification and the complexities of human relationships in acts of love.

Real life is not simple, and emotional life is anything but simple. And a great danger exists when simplistic people have no experience with complexity, no sense of nuance whatsoever—don't even know what I'm talking about right now—when simplistic people with little insight into the complex nature of the human being and relationships start making pronouncements about complex things.

Number seven, there's the danger of becoming a one-trick pony where we emphasize Christian hedonism proper to the neglect of the whole counsel of God in Scripture, or we wear such hedonism-colored glasses that when we see texts, all we see is hedonism when it's not even there in those texts.

Number eight, and finally on the dangers, you can see really that behind all these dangers is the failure to preserve a proper grasp of and esteem for the authority and objectivity of the Scriptures and the way they exert their authority both through a rational comprehension of them and a spiritual transformation by them.

The Scriptures themselves will always be the watershed issue till Jesus comes. Whether any particular theological viewpoint is sound or not sound, balanced or imbalanced, will be decided on this watershed issue of the truth and understandableness of the Scriptures. So, with regard to areas I hope people would explore in greater depth or application, one answer would be give a good deal of energy to those eight pitfalls, and go deep with your analysis of Scripture and the human soul that you give expression to Christian hedonism in ways that would minimize those dangers and maximize fruitfulness.

I think one way to describe what needs to be done is to bring Christian hedonism into direct exegetical and theological contact with certain significant themes and realities in Scripture, and probe those interrelationships. I have in mind, for example, saving faith. I'd love to do that myself if the Lord gives me more time.

How is saving faith related to God-glorifying joy in Christ? Or I think a good deal more needs to be done on the nature of love, mainly love towards people. Paul says love seeks not its own, really, but he also says it is more satisfying to give than to receive.

So should you seek that? And he says love rejoices in the truth. Rejoices! Rejoices in the truth! So if you're not rejoicing in the truth, are you loving? And so joy is essential to love. Or is it? And he asks, what profit is it if you give your whole body to be burned and don't have love?

So seeking profit is okay because he just argued that you don't get any if you don't love? I mean, there's just so much to be done here with texts on the nature of love and how it works with the pursuit of Christ-exalting joy. I think there needs to be very serious consideration about the relationship between self-denial in Christian hedonism.

Jesus clearly says we must deny ourselves and take up our cross if we're going to be His disciples, and Paul certainly embraced a life of suffering more than any of us has. He embraced, he pursued a life of suffering, and yet he said, "I rejoice in my sufferings." So were his sufferings self-denial?

I mean, how were they self-denial if they were the place where he found joy? I think the state of corporate worship in America on Sunday morning cries out for a great deal of theological and biblical reflection about the relationship between joy and reverence and the kinds of liturgical activity, or shall we say, the structure of the service that will build a kind of mindset in the people over the decades that will fit them to relate to God as He really is, and also be humble and courageous, standing for truth.

In other words, I sense that there are ways of doing corporate worship that Christian hedonism speaks into that over the decades, without that speaking, will produce a kind of saint that isn't ready for what we're going to face. I think the need is great for there to be people with profound insight into the human psyche, and profound insight into biblical truth, who can probe the relationship between Christian hedonism and various forms of mental illness, from the least serious to the most serious.

That's probably enough for now. Let me just reiterate that both with regard to dangers and potentials to be explored, that I think the heart of the matter is always going to be biblical authority and biblical meaning rightly apprehended and rightly applied. The Bible will be the watershed for preventing dangers and for wonderful floods of new insight.

Amen, that's a good word for this movement that you've generated by God's grace. Thank you, Pastor John, for that word. Thanks for listening to the podcast over at our online home. You can explore all of our episodes, now about 1,300 episodes to date. There you can see a full list of our most popular episodes, read full transcripts, and submit questions that you might be wrestling with yourself for all of that.

Go to desiringgod.org/askpastorjohn. Well, this week we're looking at Christian hedonism and we end the week looking at the book title and the ministry title, Desiring God. Where did that title come from and aren't there better ones that better fit what we do? It's a really good question. It's on the table Friday.

I'm your host, Tony Reinke. We'll see you then.