Well, recently we've received a lot of important questions on 1 Thessalonians 4, 16-17, that famous rapture text. Here's one from Jonathan who listens to us from New Jersey. "Hello Pastor John, it's fairly typical to hear Christians say of someone who has passed away, 'They're with Jesus now.'" But in 1 Thessalonians 4, 16-17, it sounds like Paul is saying that Christians who have died will meet Jesus at the second coming.

Do Christians go to be with the Lord when we die? Or will we meet him when he comes back to earth? I guess what I'm asking is this, when a Christian dies, what comes first, seeing Jesus or being raised from the dead? The reason this is an excellent question is because 1 Thessalonians 4, 16-17, really do sound like what Jonathan says, that believers who have died are raised from the dead, and in that sense, first meet the Lord at his coming, rather than immediately meeting him when they die.

It sounds like that. But I'm sure that's not what Paul means there, and I'll try to show why. I think it's really plain from two passages of Scripture that Paul was certain that when he and other believers died, they would go immediately to be with the Lord Jesus and see him in that moment.

And here are those two passages, 2 Corinthians 5, 6-9. "We are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord. We walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord." Those are the two alternatives that Paul sees.

I'm either here in my body, in one sense, away from at homeness with the Lord, or I die and I'm at home with the Lord. Now here's verse 9. "So whether we are at home or away, whether we're with him or here, we make it our aim to please him." Now, Paul did not conceive of a time when the body dies and we are not at home with the Lord.

To die is to lose the body temporarily and go to be at home with the Lord. This is not his first choice. I mean, that's one of the things we might correct at funerals, is not to give the impression that he disembodied at homeness with the Lord is the first apostolic choice.

His first choice is, "Oh, that the Lord Jesus would come before I die and overclothe my body with eternal life." But, he says, if we die, it was better. So his third choice is, "Stay here and work." His second choice is, "Go to be with Jesus without my body." His first choice is, "Come, Lord Jesus, and give me a new body so that I never have to be bodiless." The other passage is Philippians 1:22, "If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me.

Yet, which I shall choose, I cannot tell. I'm hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account." Now, those are the two possibilities for Paul, and one of them was not to die and have the soul lie in the grave sleeping.

That wasn't the choice. Die and have the soul lie in the grave sleeping until the second coming. No. The two possibilities were, go on living here, or go to be with Christ, which is far, far better. So I conclude Paul had no doubts about being united with Christ with conscious joy, by faith, in this life, and it would never be interrupted by death, and when he left his body, when he was martyred, he would go to something far better than even the communion that he enjoyed with Christ here.

Now, let's say a word about 1 Thessalonians 4. And here you've got to put on your thinking cap, because I'm sorry, the logic of this text is so important. I think it's clear, but it's complicated. It goes like this. "Since we believe," this is 1 Thessalonians 4, we'll start at verse 14, "since we believe that Christ died and rose again, even so through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep." Now that sounds like he means to bring them with him from heaven, where in fact they are.

In fact, there are souls in heaven. We just argued for that from 2 Corinthians 5:8 and Philippians 1. Now, verse 15, "For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep." Now that, too, might sound like we are already in our souls, body in the grave, souls with Jesus in the presence of the Lord, and in that sense, those still on earth have not preceded them into the presence of Christ.

But here's the problem. Now comes the argument, the argument for why those who are left, who are alive, will not precede those who have died. It goes like this, verse 16, "For because," we won't precede them, "because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the sound of the trumpet, and the dead in Christ will rise first." That's why we won't precede them.

They rise, they rise first. "Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together," not a first and second, "together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." So the argument for why those who are alive at the Lord's coming will not precede those who have died is that those who have died will rise first.

Then we will all go together, no ranking, "Oh, you got to go first," together to meet the Lord in the air. No first, no seconds, all together. So here's my conclusion when I put these three passages together. Precede in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 does not refer to the dead preceding the living into the presence of the Lord in heaven, which of course they clearly do.

Paul's just not talking about that. Rather, precede refers to preceding with a resurrection body into the glorious experience of the second coming. Let me say that again, because that's what the argument of verses 16 and 17 demands that precede means. Precede—we won't precede the dead. Precede where? Preceding them with resurrection bodies into the glorious experience of the second coming.

In other words, what Paul is saying in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 is the living won't have any advantage over the dead when it comes to the fullest enjoyment of that day, that resurrection second coming day, including bodily sight and enjoyment and bodily celebration of the second coming, because the dead in Christ shall rise first.

In other words, before there is any glorious gathering to meet the Lord in the air, the bodies of all believers who have died will be raised from the dead, reunited with their souls, and then the entire Christian Church, the living and the resurrected, will together meet the Lord and welcome him to establish his rightful kingdom.

Wow. Complicated. Yes, it is complicated. Thank you, Pastor John. You know what's not complicated? Get this. Of our entire ministry budget for our year-round work, almost 40% of that annual budget arrives in donations in the month of December alone. Forty percent in December. And if you're a regular listener to the Ask Pastor John podcast, would you consider joining the team, making a donation before December 31st?

We'd appreciate it. Our ministry partners are people just like you, and you make it possible for us to provide everything we do at DesiringGod online free of charge. To join us in the work, visit DesiringGod.org/give. That's DesiringGod.org/give. Well, Jesus came to earth in the first Advent. We celebrate this glorious truth in Christmas, but there's a second Advent to come, and maybe a third Advent too.

In fact, how many times will Jesus return to earth? One more time or two more times? That is a really good question. It's an important question. It's on the table Friday. We'll see you then.