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Again, that's longangle.com. Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks, a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel. I'm Chris Hutchins and I'm your host, and I'm excited you're here today. And if you're listening to this podcast right now, you probably love to travel and you don't need me to tell you how great an experience it is, but I'm going to keep doing it anyways, and so is our guest today, Sebastian Modak.

He's a writer and a multimedia journalist based in New York, but he grew up all over the world and has since traveled to even more destinations. In fact, if you know that amazing New York Times 52 places list that comes out each year, well, in 2019, Sebastian sent his entire year going to all 52 places.

Well, except one, but we'll get to that later. He's now the editor-in-large at Lonely Planet and still writes about travel for publications like the New York Times, Conde Nast Traveler, and more. We're going to talk about what he's learned from living in four different continents, traveling to 80 plus countries, what he thinks it means to travel like a journalist, and how he uses those skills to plan a memorable trip.

Some of the unusual experiences he's had on his journeys, why he thinks travel is important for everyone. And finally, we're both going to share some of our favorite places to give you some inspiration for your next adventure. So, there's a lot to cover. Let's get started. Sebastian, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here. Yeah. So, you've probably spent more time traveling than almost anyone listening. So, I'm curious just to kick us off what you think most people are probably getting wrong and not that it's wrong, but like what could people be doing totally differently in the way they travel?

I think it starts before you even get on a plane or before you travel. And I think what's missing a lot of the times, myself included in the past, and that's something I've been trying to be more conscious of going forward, is the why of travel, I think we've nailed the what, we've even nailed the how.

You want to go somewhere because your friend has told you about it and it's great, whatever, but are you really thinking deeply about how you're going to engage with the place when you're on the ground? Is this really just a bragging rights trip? Is this because you saw an oversaturated photo on Instagram and you want to get the same photo?

Maybe that is the way that you start getting interest in a place and you start getting the idea of traveling. But if that's the be all and end all, you're kind of missing the point. And especially now, I think when you have to measure your travel decisions against things like your carbon footprint, and the public health issues that now surround travel with COVID and everything else, you have all these other things to balance and measure out.

Now, more than ever, I think you need to be like, "Okay, why am I really going on this trip, and how am I going to act once I hit the ground?" And I think that's really where people need to start more versus like, "Where am I going to go?" It's "Why am I going to go?" And then taking it from there.

I think that's when you really start building a rewarding trip that's going to give you these rewarding experiences that are going to last a lifetime. What are some examples of good "whys" you've heard from people about why they're traveling or why they're going to a specific place? You know, from solo travelers, for example, the "why" might be they want to make some new friends and they want to go to a place where they can really interact with people and meet locals and learn.

I think that's a great example of getting the right "why". And I've known many people who have asked me that question, starting with like, "Where should I go if I want to really immerse myself in a place and immerse myself in maybe it's a language, maybe it's a cuisine, maybe it's a music scene or whatever else?" And that being a "why" I think is going to just immediately lead to serendipitous, life-changing encounters that we all really hope to have traveling.

You know, I can give you an example of a trip that I'm in the middle of planning right now. I got married recently and we're having our honeymoon. And in thinking about our honeymoon, we started with a "why". We didn't start with a "where". We didn't start with, "Oh, we need to go to the Amalfi Coast or Hawaii or whatever else." And there's nothing wrong with those.

Those are popular honeymoon destinations for a reason. But we were like, "Okay, we want to go somewhere where we can do something active, something outdoors, not push ourselves too hard, not have to overplan it because we still do want it to be a honeymoon where we can relax and enjoy each other's company, but also maybe experience something new." And that brought us to Slovenia and this incredible network of bike routes that Slovenia has put out over the last couple of years.

And so I poured over those and then I found one that's like this gourmet focused route where you're like stopping in restaurants and you're riding through wine country and you're really learning about the local cuisine and you're staying at certified, sustainable hotels and guest houses and you're doing it all on a bike.

So you're sustainable in that way. And it was just all of a sudden, it's just opened up this trip that I had no idea even existed. And even as a travel journalist, I didn't know it was possible. And it all started with us just being like, "Where can we go that's like a little unexpected, but is also going to challenge us a bit, but isn't going to be like grueling 70 miles days on a bike, but it's going to be like 20 to 30 mile days instead and we'll end with a glass of wine and a good meal and a nice bed and breakfast." And we landed on Slovenia.

That's just one example of starting with the "What am I looking for?" and then going to the place instead of being like, "Man, everyone's been to Italy, but me, I need to go to Italy immediately." I've heard amazing things about Slovenia and haven't been. So I want to get the recap when you're back.

But for sure, there's not like an obvious filter, right? If you want to search for a hotel, you're like, "Well, I want it to be four stars. I want it to have a pool. I want it to be within this distance of the city center." But when you took those criteria and you're like, "I would love to have a glass of wine at the end of the day, do something active." How did you end up to Slovenia?

Maybe it's the wealth of knowledge you've built, but how would the average person take this idea of a why and an experience they want and actually arrive at a place? So there's something, not to do the whole corporate plug, but there's something we talk about at Lonely Planet a lot in terms of giving guidance to people, which is the bread and butter of what something like Lonely Planet does is travel guidance, is that you want to be their most knowledgeable friend, right?

You don't want to be necessarily just like, "We're an authority. We're going to tell you what to do." You want to be that friend who's like, "Oh, what are you into? Oh, you got to try this and this and this because I totally know that you're into this and so you're going to really enjoy this." And so for me, I'm lucky to have this very extended network of travel writers and travel creators and all this stuff.

So for me, those were my friends. And I started just asking around. I would see the articles that were coming through the pipeline at Lonely Planet. I would see some people writing about cycling in Slovenia. That would make me go down some rabbit hole of all these different green routes.

The kind of research that I think most travelers enjoy is that kind of research where you get like a little tip and you follow that down a rabbit hole and you're like, "Oh, okay. So maybe not." You know, like it brought me down a rabbit hole looking at like Provence and Bordeaux and all this stuff.

And I was like, "Oh, that's maybe just a little too crowded for what we want. We want to have more space. We want to feel like we're more embedded in local life." So we started looking at cases like, "Okay, if not France, if not Italy, just look at a map." Like, "Okay, Slovenia is right there.

What's going on in Slovenia?" So it's really just this like endless game, this kind of scavenger hunt where you're taking on little tips, you're doing your own research and you're landing on something that feels right. But at least you've started somewhere beyond just like a bucket list. We're going to come back to bucket lists because we had a fun conversation about that before.

I'm curious, is there like a Lonely Planet or another source of like the world guidebook or a page or so about each country where you just start to like wet your palate on different places? Or I know Lonely Planet, I don't know if you still do, but they used to have this thorn tree forum online where you could go ask questions.

Anything in that realm of kind of broader inspiration? Yeah, there is actually a Lonely Planet worldbook. I actually don't know the last time we put it out, but I've seen it before. It's this huge, thick doorstopper of a volume that's just like an overview of the world. I wouldn't necessarily recommend that.

It's a big read to start going through. For better or for worse, I do think social media is a huge part of it. And it takes a little bit of your own work to filter through all the BS, so to speak, and the surface level stuff and the oversaturated photos and the influencer shots on the beach that aren't really telling you anything about the place.

But once you get past that, you can find some really incredible information on social media. Just regular people out and about who put a Slovenia hashtag on something or maybe not. Maybe they put a bike touring hashtag and you're looking at the bike touring hashtag because you're interested in doing something with bikes.

And you're like, "Where is this? There's this person drinking a glass of wine looking at this beautiful valley with a bike in the background. Oh, it's Slovenia, huh? Really?" So I think searching subject areas in social media is the digital equivalent of hanging out at a bar with the entire world and asking for recommendations.

And it means you got to comb through some garbage to get to the good stuff. But it's in there and it's the really genuine, from the heart, personal stuff that when you get to those recommendations, I think they mean a lot. I do it even as a journalist. If I'm interested in seeing where people are bike touring or where people are backpacking or hiking, I'll search those hashtags.

I'll follow those accounts on TikTok and Instagram or whatever and just see where people are hanging out and what people are talking about. Because for better or for worse, it is a pulse and you're looking for a pulse and you're looking for a trend and it's there. So I think that's one way.

What I like to do is, yeah, starting with a continent. Maybe you're like, "Okay, Europe. I want to do a trip in Europe." But maybe I'm thinking beyond Spain, Italy, France. Just look at a map and pick a country and be like, "Oh, Albania. What's going on in Albania?" And then you can start looking there and maybe something's gonna interest you.

Maybe it won't. Maybe you'll be like, "Okay, this looks a little too rough for me. I need something with more infrastructure." And then you look west and you're like, "Okay, maybe Croatia. Maybe Slovenia. Maybe Czech Republic." And just like looking at a physical map and dreaming about it a little bit.

And we'll probably get to this later. But I am of the firm belief that everywhere, literally everywhere, has something to offer if you open yourself up to it. It has something that's gonna blow your mind. If you spend a little time, if you approach it with an open mind, you'll find something that's gonna blow your mind.

Even in your own backyard. I live 2 blocks from Prospect Park in Brooklyn. If I go into Prospect Park today with the mindset that I'm looking to be educated, I'm looking to learn, I'm looking to have my mind expanded, I'm gonna have some interaction whether it's staring at a cardinal for 20 minutes or watching a couple hanging out on the lawn or playing with a random dog.

That's gonna make me feel good and make me feel fulfilled. And I really firmly believe that it really starts with mindset, which loops all back to that idea of like, "Why are you traveling?" And if you go in with the right mindset, honestly, it doesn't really matter where you're going.

You're gonna have your mind blown in some way. So, I want to dig into that process. But before, I want to mention... Well, I don't know if the average listener is thinking of Reddit as social media. I want to plug it because I use it a lot for travel.

And I just did one quick search and I said "European wine tour site colon reddit.com". And it's like "Crowdsourcing my wine tasting trip to Europe. Who's got suggestions?" There aren't a lot of comments, unfortunately. But the person who wrote it came up with all these suggestions that include Slovenia and Croatia and Alto Adige, which I don't even know where that is.

Alto Adige. Yeah. It's like Northern Italy, I think. Yeah. So this at least had a bunch of suggestions, even though there weren't a lot of comments. So I use that a lot. I do too. And actually, it's a great example. During the pandemic, I feel like you're going to end this podcast being like "This guy's obsessed with bikes.

Shut up about bikes." But I went down a serious rabbit hole with cycling, especially bike travel. I'm not really interested in the head-to-toe Lycra racing stuff. I love traveling by bike because I think it slows you down. You really get to notice a lot. It's just a great way to get the feel of the place.

But I really went down a rabbit hole during the pandemic because I was stuck at home like everyone else. I live in New York City. I don't own a car. So I was looking at ways to tap into this idea of adventure and travel while still being close to home and doing it with the tools that I had, which was a bicycle.

And Reddit was like a goldmine for that kind of stuff. Just as an example, I remember finding someone talking about the "route verte", butchering that French, but it means the green route. And it's a network of trails and routes in Quebec, in Canada. I never would have thought of it.

My knowledge and desire and understanding of Quebec starts and ends with Montreal, like it has for a long time. And then suddenly reading about this network of hundreds and hundreds of miles of trails that exist in Quebec, I started talking to my partner and we're like, "I hear the border is about to reopen with Canada.

What if we just went and did this trip that I saw on Reddit?" And we're like, "Okay, we don't have a car. But what if we took the train with our bikes as far north as it goes, and then got on our bikes from there and rode across the border into Canada and did the trip that way?" Which is exactly what we ended up doing.

We took the train to St. Albans, Vermont, literally spent the night in Vermont, left that morning, rode to Canada, and then spent a week riding around Quebec, and then rode back to Vermont and took the train home, all without ever getting in the car. I wrote about it on Lonely Planet's website, actually.

But it's a great example of something that just started with a tiny little spark of being like, "Huh, the green route, Quebec? Sounds kind of magical. I wonder if we could do it." Next thing I know, a few weeks later, we're on a train with our bikes on our way up to Canada.

That just goes to show how the germ of something, if you have the right curiosity and the right mindset, can turn into a really great adventure. There's two things to take away there that you didn't mention. One, I imagine that was a pretty inexpensive trip. You describe it in a way that people talk about these once-in-a-lifetime adventures that they plan for years and years, and they spend thousands of dollars.

That doesn't sound like something that took a lot of advance notice or a lot of money to make happen. We didn't know where we were staying every night. It was one of those kinds of trips. And it was amazing because you could do that in a place like Quebec.

We'd be like, "Oh, we're starting to get a little tired. We've been riding for 60 miles. It looks like a storm's coming in." Pull out my phone and be like, "What's the nearest bed and breakfast?" Give them a call. They're like, "Yeah, of course. Come on through. Next thing you know, we're staying there." And I think that's a great point that you make.

This is actually the point that I make in my story too, where you think of the capital B, capital T, big trip as something that you spend years thinking about, planning every moment. You're going to go on a safari. You're going to go climb to Everest Base Camp. You're going to do these huge things, which is great.

Those have a place and those big goals are important. But what this taught me, at least, was that a big trip can come from a small idea. A big trip can be something that is largely improvised. It can be serendipitous. It can be spontaneous. Again, I really do think it comes down to mindset.

I think we could have gone into that panicking about not having a place to stay, tired. We got rained on. We had flat tires, all this stuff. But because we had the attitude where we're like, "This is an adventure. What? We've been cooped up at home for a year and a half because of the pandemic, and now we're out here doing this amazing thing.

How lucky are we?" Because we came in with that attitude, it just turned into a really fulfilling, if exhausting, adventure. It was in your backyard, per se. It wasn't directly there, but you took a train. You didn't have to cross an ocean. You didn't have to spend thousands on plane tickets.

I think a lot of times, everyone plans vacations like, "Gosh, where can I go that's halfway around the world?" It's cool to hear that if you just think about it, you might find something not too far away. Absolutely. When we first spoke a few months ago, you said, "I think people should think about how to approach a trip like a journalist might.

About the people you'll meet, how to approach it with an open mind." So we talked about mindset. We talked about the feeling you want to get, a little bit about where you want to go. But I want to just break down... Let's say someone listening has gone through these steps and is planning a trip.

I'd love to just go back and forth and talk about some of the things you do. So let's say we've now picked a place. Let's say we have decided the why and we know why we're going. What kind of research do you think people should be doing in advance versus leaving up to that serendipity you described earlier?

So I'm just going to give you an example from the 52 places trip I did because I think it's very out of the ordinary, of course. But I think there's a lot that can be learned for it. One of the things was because I was going to 52 places in 52 weeks, I didn't have time to prepare, right?

I luckily had someone at the Times who was helping me and she would send me like a really great one-pager of here's what you need to know about currency and here's what you need to know about public transportation. And here's like the top 10 things to do when you Google the place, right?

These are the big tourist hits or whatever. I would try to like knock out those 10 things in like an afternoon and be like, "Okay, so I've done the brass tacks. I've seen that. Now, let me actually have an experience." And I think that goes back to this idea of travel being more serendipitous, more spontaneous, more connective than it is extractive.

I think a lot of the times we think of travel as extractive where it's like, "I need to go in there, get things that make me fulfilled and leave, wash my hands of it and plan the next trip." And I think leaving things open has always led to the best experiences.

In terms of preparation, yeah, have a place to stay. If it's city-based, find a place to stay. I think beforehand, if you can, go as local as possible. And I don't mean Airbnb. Airbnb is fine if that's what you want to do. But I think there is nothing better than staying at a family-run bed and breakfast.

I think it's the best. Bathrooms down the hall. Dad's making you breakfast in the morning. Mom's giving you tips of where to go shopping. That vibe, I think, opens up so much just in terms of local recommendations, in terms of the feeling of being a local, in terms of supporting local economies.

You're staying at like a family-run hotel versus the Hilton or whatever. That goes a long way in terms of where you're putting your money. That's a great place to start. I've had incredible experiences literally just from an innkeeper in Bulgaria, who over the course of 5 days of me staying there, gains my trust.

And all of a sudden, he's showing me old family photos. And he's showing me into the basement where there's like a fresco on the wall from the Ottoman times. And he keeps it behind glass because it's his greatest possession now. And it's in this house that he's owned and his family has owned.

So just like these experiences that you unlock by going local, by going small. I feel like you didn't ask me where you should stay. But I do think that is where most people start. And thinking even the "why" in that decision goes a long way. You could just look at TripAdvisor and go to the one with the most reviews with 5 stars.

But then you're just doing what everyone else did. Right. And is there a time and a place sometimes for staying in the city center, being really close to things? I don't know if the bed and breakfast are always located in that area, but... Yeah, no, of course. And maybe you do both.

Maybe you do the rural bed and breakfast for a couple of days, and then you stay in the middle of a city where you're not really going to be spending time at the hotel anyway. To go back to what my first steps are in feeling that I'm connected to a place.

What I learned to do pretty quickly on my reporting trips, and I think this is reporting-specific, but I think it's general tips for travel too, is when I get to a place, especially if it's a city, first thing I do is I leave the camera in the hotel room.

I put the phone away in my pocket and I just walk. I'll give myself an hour and a half, maybe 2 hours, no destination in mind. I just want to get the pulse of the place. I just want to feel it. And maybe I'll get distracted and sit down for a beer and watch the city go by that way, or a coffee, or sit in a park for a little bit.

But I just want to be there. And that means not looking at my phone. The great thing about Google Maps is that you can get completely lost and then use it to find your way back, right? If I think a street looks interesting, I'll walk down that. If I see a scene happening at the local park, I'll sit down and watch that for 20 minutes.

If I strike up a conversation with someone, I'll let that go and see where it takes me. It's just such a small thing, but it goes such a long way. If you're just thinking, of course, you're going to want to document things, you're going to want to post things to Instagram, you're going to want to share it with friends, all this stuff.

But just wait a couple of hours. Do it starting that evening. Give yourself at least a few hours to feel like you're there and you're in the place. And maybe you'll see places where you're like, "Oh, I need to come back and photograph that. I need to come back during sunset because I bet the photographs here are great then." Or whatever else that you need to do.

And I'm thinking of that professionally, of course, as a photographer and a writer, but everyone's into documenting their trips. So everyone's thinking of that. But if you give yourself time to just be, it's really amazing how much better you get the place. You understand it and you feel it in a way that you don't, again, if you're just like extracting content from it from the moment you hit the ground.

You didn't mention this, but one thing I like to do where possible and where not ridiculously inconvenient, get to wherever you're going using public transportation when you first arrive. Taking the train, taking a bus, you see people in their normal environment versus if you were to take a taxi or call Uber in another country, you're just sitting in the back, just moving.

So I feel like your trip starts sooner when you do that. Yeah. Public transportation is a great tip. I think you really get to know a place. There are cities that I know geographically through their subway maps versus their actual maps. I know that this stop is here and this stop is here.

And that's my understanding of geography. And I think it's something that people get older. And as people have more money and all these things, you stop doing that. When you're a backpacker and you're living off the $20 in your pocket, you're taking public transportation or walking because you're not about to drop half your budget on a taxi.

Now, at least for me, who's older, it's much easier for me to be like, "I'll just take an Uber." There's a lot we can learn from our early days of travel, backpacking and whatever else when you're pinching pennies, including the fact that, yeah, public transportation is going to save you money.

But also, you're seeing the places in between. You're seeing the kind of people that come on on certain stops and get off at certain stops. You get a really better understanding of the place by getting on a train or a bus or in South Africa, the combis, the little minivans that go around.

You just get such a better understanding. Yeah. And people will help you too. And that's another thing. It's intimidating. Of course it is. But if you're lost, people will help you. I remember trying to find my way around the metro system in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, which is incredible. In the case of former Soviet countries, take the subway just to see the metro stations.

They're like works of art. It's unreal. So I'm taking the metro around in Tashkent, and I was just so confused. I was like, "I didn't understand the maps." I was sitting there with two handfuls of coins and bills, unsure about the denominations. I was jet lagged. And someone saw me immediately and came up to me and in broken English was like, "Where are you trying to go?" I said the name of the stop and just held out my hands with all the coins in it.

And he just picked out what I needed, put it in the machine, gave me the ticket and led me on my way. It's like you put your trust in someone, someone's going to help you out. And just that interaction too. I still remember it, and I'll remember it probably forever.

Just that small interaction that you're not going to get if you just call an Uber. So we had the same thing happen in Aleppo, Syria. We got into the city. We took a taxi from Turkey, which fun fact, I'm sure this is different now, but taxis from Turkey to Syria, because gas was like 10% of the cost, right?

It was so cheap. The taxis would go for free almost. The cost to go from Turkey to Syria was almost nothing as long as you had no bags, because there were special taxis where their entire trunk was just gas tanks. And so you would go into Syria and it would be super cheap, but you'd get dropped off.

We were couch surfing in a suburb and we had no clue what we were doing. And a random person came up who spoke no English, but kind of got the sense that we were lost, called someone, handed me the phone. So just a stranger's handing me a cell phone and I answer it.

And this person says, "Hey, you don't know me, but my brother thinks you're lost." So he called me. And if you want, you could tell me where you're going. I'll tell him and he can help you get there. But he would love if you stopped by his house and have some tea first.

So it was this experience that I think many people could just not be open to or think it's scary, but being open to those things has been some of the best experiences we have. Before we get there. Science has shown that being charitable can actually have a huge impact on your happiness, which is why I'm excited to be partnering with Daffy today.

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I always bring a duffel bag" or just things that might spark some interesting thoughts in people listening? I'm not like the militant, carry-on-only school of thought. Maybe now, I might be with the mess that's going on at airports and bags getting lost or whatever. But when I got that 52 Places job, I posted something about how I decided I was just going to check in a bag for the year.

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I had to pack for Siberia and Tahiti in the same suitcase. I just didn't want the stress of having to do laundry every four days or whatever. So I did it. The bag got lost twice, but found its way back to me. So it was fine. But I tell that story to say I'm not dogmatic about packing in any way.

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It keeps you warm when it's cold. It cools you down when it's hot. I've worn it in Gambia during the hottest, rainiest time of year, the same t-shirt four days in a row, and it still didn't smell. It's just the stuff is witchcraft. It's unreal. That's something I definitely learned through long-term travel.

And now I completely swear by merino wool, everything. Where are you getting all these merino wool products? Smartwool is great. I have a lot of stuff from then. Fjallraven. It's all performance stuff. You're spending, I don't know, $80 on a t-shirt. And you're like, "Really? $80 on a t-shirt?" But if you only have to bring two t-shirts with you, it's pretty good.

So yeah, I had one lightweight merino wool and one heavier weight one. That was basically all I wore for a year. Packing cubes, I also swear by. I think a lot of people have entered the church of packing cubes, but I think being organized that way really has upped my travel game because I just don't leave things behind anymore because I know everything has a place and I know where everything goes.

And if I feel that a packing cube isn't as full as it was when I got there, I know my bathing suit is hanging in the bathroom or something's been left behind. So that, in terms of organization, there's very few loose items in my bags. I know I said I'm not dogmatic about things.

And then now I've gone into being like, "No loose items in the backpack." But no, it's true. I have pouches for everything. All my tech stuff is in one bag, all my camera gears in another bag, inside the bag. And also, when I inevitably get pulled aside at security because of all the electronics in my bag, but also for being a brown dude in the 21st century, always the random security check happens.

Then I can just open the bag and I've got four other bags I take out instead of an explosion of cables and other gear. Those are my main constants. If I feel like bringing an extra pair of earphones for working out or whatever, I'll do that. Sometimes I won't.

All the other stuff is up in the air, but those are my hard and fast rules. I don't know if you followed the new church of in packing for travelers, but it seems to be putting an Apple AirTag in like every bag. And I have not checked a bag since going down this rabbit hole.

But it seems like most people that have lost a bag that have had an Apple AirTag in it have somehow been able to figure out where it is and get it back. That's interesting. I wonder how that plays out, though. Especially now that all these airlines are overwhelmed. Is it that you're going up to them and you're like, "You're saying you can't find my bag?

I see it. It's at LAX or whatever." And then what? What are they supposed to do? They're like, "Okay, sure." And then they'll go do whatever process they were going to do. I don't know if they're going to go out of their way because you can show them where the bag is.

I've read multiple stories of people where the bag made it. Let's say you're flying to Denver, the bag's in Denver. And they're like, "We don't know where it is." And you're like, "Actually, I know where it is in the airport." Now, if you're in Denver, and the flight came from London, and you're like, "I know where it is in London." You're probably out of luck and you're going to have to wait.

You might be able to say, "Look, I know it's in London. Can you get it?" But to the extent that the bag is lost, maybe it's coming a day late, and I know where it is, you have some idea. Or even just figuring out when it's coming. Sometimes they're like, "When the bag gets here, we'll deliver it to you." At least now I know it's here.

It's here. Yeah. Or I know that it made it on the plane. You land and you're sitting there like, "Oh man, the bags are coming off. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it." Some airlines are getting really good. I can't remember whether it was United or Delta or something.

I looked in the app and it was like, "We scanned your bag at the check-in. We scanned your bag when it's getting on the plane." Obviously, if you could get that level of detail with every airline, it would be unnecessary. But I think people have really liked being able to at least have a sense of where is my bag?

Is it actually here? Is it coming? If I see that it's still where I took off, I'm not going to sit at the baggage carousel for 45 minutes to see if maybe it's coming. I know it's not coming. I can see the appeal. For the trips that I have coming up, I'm trying to go carry on just because I've heard about all the chaos.

I just did a trip in the Faroe Islands where I was hiking for a week basically straight. And it's pretty intense hiking. So I wanted to bring trekking poles. You can't carry on trekking poles. So it's like, "Okay, do I not bring trekking poles and be miserable? Or do I just bring them and check them in and run the risk of not having them when I get there?" And I chose the latter.

And I had the trekking poles. So there's decisions you have to make and I'll probably go on the side of comfort over any kind of hard rules around packing every time. Trekking poles may or may not be as easy. But in some places, now that we have children, I've noticed there are sites definitely in the US, probably all over the world, where you could say, "Okay, we need a high chair.

We need a pack and play. We need these different things." You can rent them from local families and not have to travel with them. I've also done the FedExing ahead of time stuff that I'm going to need there and shipping it back. Sometimes, especially now with baggage fees, it ends up being the same as it would be to check in a bag or even less.

So for little things like that, that would have been another option. Maybe not to the Faroe Islands because it's a little remote and who knows how long it would have taken to get there. But if I'm going to the Dolomites or something and you want to go carry on, just ship the stuff ahead of time to your hotel.

They'll accept it and you pick it up when you're there. There's also something... I'm going to probably butcher the pronunciation. It's like "Takubin" or something like that in Japan. There's an entire network of services where you can send your bags between hotels. And it's the most efficient process as most are in Japan.

So I know a lot of people that are traveling. It's like, "Well, I want to take the train, but I have this big bag. Do I want to lug it around?" So you just pack an overnight bag. Sometimes the bag gets there same day or next day. It's like you just pack a day pack, you hop on the train, you head down maybe from Tokyo to Kyoto, you go trek around for the day, you go spend the night, you wake up the next morning, you brought just enough for the next morning and your toiletries, and then your bag shows up at your hotel.

And you had this wonderful experience of both taking the train, not having to go straight to your hotel when you land. I don't know if that service exists almost anywhere else. But I know that in Japan, it's a very structured service that's very easy. Yeah. I know some people who swear by it.

I've never used it, but it makes a lot of sense. I think it's Takuhaibun. I can't remember. I'm terrible at pronouncing basically any Japanese term. So we've planned the trip, we've gotten the accommodations, we've gotten there, we've packed all this stuff. You talked about this serendipity of meeting people, locals, immersing yourself in these experiences that you probably couldn't have pretended.

Do you think there's a way, not necessarily to cheat the system, but to engineer that serendipity to give it a greater chance of happening than you would if you maybe had a whole week with no agenda? Maybe you just go sit at bars, talk to strangers. But what if you have a day and you really want to try to make something local and interesting and magical happen?

What would be your advice to someone trying to do that? The first one, I think is obvious to anyone who's traveled before, but it's put the phone away again. Especially when you're traveling alone. I do it too. It's the best social crutch there is, right? If you're sitting alone and you feel nervous about it or you're bored or whatever else, you immediately pull out your phone.

But that signals to everyone else that you're busy, you're closed off. The amount of conversations that I've started from just sitting somewhere and just looking around like people used to do when they had downtime, just staring into space and making eye contact with someone, saying hello. Next thing you know, they say, "Hello, how are you?" Next thing you're getting invited to grandma's house for dinner.

That has happened so many times. People are naturally curious, especially for solo travelers. They're curious why you're visiting their home, what you're up to while you're there, if you actually have the best recommendations or if you're going on something that they'd consider the tourist path or whatever, they want to steer you somewhere else.

People are very passionate about where they're from. So tapping into that, going in also being like, "I'm going to be just a little more extroverted than I normally am," goes a long way. And I'm an extrovert in the sense that I do get energy from being around friends and family and being around people I love.

But I'm still a nervous extrovert, if that makes sense. I still get phone anxiety and weird nervousness around approaching strangers and all these other things. So it takes an effort for me to be like, "I'm going to strike up a conversation with these random people." And just as one example, I was in Munich, which is a city that if you ask people from Munich, they'll be the first to admit that it's not an easy place to meet people.

It's just part of the, I think, Bavarian culture and such. It's a little more insular, a little more insider-y. So I was having trouble. I was there for work too, and I needed a story, and I was having trouble meeting people. And I was hanging out at this bar, not looking at my phone.

So I was more aware of my surroundings. And I was overhearing this conversation with a bunch of dudes standing next to me. And they were talking about space and rockets and astrophysics and all just very fascinating stuff. And it took me a second to work up the courage. But once I did, I literally just poked my head and I was like, "Hey, do you mind if I join you?" And they're like, "Yeah, of course.

Come on in, whatever." And I brought them around or whatever. Next thing I know, I'm talking to these five astrophysicists who are working on some German space program in the woods of Munich. Just totally fascinating stuff. We spend the whole rest of the evening together. We go to a show.

We just hang out, taking me to all their favorite beer gardens. And all because I just took that plunge. And it was a little weird. It's a little awkward to do that in any situation. At least for me, it is. But I took a deep breath and went in there and said, "Hello." And next thing you know, I had this really wonderful, pretty magical day in a city where it's hard to do that.

It's hard to find that serendipity. So I think those would be my two biggest overarching tips around that is opening yourself up to it. And the first step towards that is literally being physically available. So stop staring at your phone. Put the book down for a second. Just be there.

Look around and see what happens. And then two, push yourself to just be a little more extroverted than you usually are. And then actually the third one too, and this goes back to mindset as well. And this has taken me a while to really master, if I can even call it that.

But it's admitting your own ignorance and embracing it. I think a lot of the times, especially with well-traveled people, there's a tendency to make it competitive almost, right? Be like, "Oh, I know this. And I've been there. And I know my way around this. And I've traveled, so I don't need help.

And I can find my way. And I've read about this place that I'm traveling to. So I don't need to know anymore." But you're never going to know as much as someone who lives there, who has been born and raised there. You're never going to know as much. You could live there for 10, 20 years.

I've lived in New York for a decade. I'm not a New Yorker. I'm never going to know New York like a New Yorker. And admitting that leads to you asking the right questions. It leads to the approach that you have when you're talking to people, the openness that you bring to new experiences and new culturals and things that might be unfamiliar to you.

All of that first is going to just come across so much more effectively if you first admit that you really don't know anything. And you're there to learn. And you're there to engage. And I think just that mindset opens up a place in a big way. And it's very hard to do, especially the more traveled you are because you start being like, "Oh, I know my way around.

I know how to navigate this stuff." And so still for me too, when I'm at a place that I've been to 100 times, I still try to approach it as there's still something to learn. I still am not a local. I'll never be. So what can I learn from a local?

And having that eagerness and that curiosity is going to make you approach the right people and ask the right questions. And then the rest is serendipity. So I love that approach. I've used it a lot. I just want to thank you, Quik, for listening to and supporting the show.

Your support is what keeps this show going. To get all of the URLs, codes, deals, and discounts from our partners, you can go to allthehacks.com/deals. So please consider supporting those who support us. You traveled a lot as a solo traveler. You just got married. Congratulations. I've heard you on a couple podcasts say, "One day, maybe there's a family.

I have one." How do you think that changes? You haven't been through it yet, but you've probably met lots of travelers. The idea of spending the afternoon sitting in a bar, meeting some astrophysicists, going out to a random show is not the kind of experience that's easy to have with young kids around.

So how do you create these interesting experiences when you probably have a tighter schedule? Have you thought at all about that or talked to anyone that's done it successfully? I'd be curious, actually, from you if you felt as your travel style has changed, how you felt yourself adapting. I think what's exciting about traveling with kids and having kids is that you now get to instill that curiosity and that sense of serendipity in someone new and encourage that in someone and have them grow into the kind of traveler that maybe it took you longer to be.

And I know that's much easier said than done when there's nap time and mealtime and all these things that are pretty set in stone when you're traveling. You can't be like, "Peace out, partner. I'm going to go hang out at the bar and meet some astrophysicists, have fun with the kids." But I do wonder if there are micro moments of serendipity that you can create where you can be like, "We've rented this car.

We're going to go for a drive on this route that we've researched, but we don't know where we're going to stop yet. We don't know where we're going to have lunch. We don't know where we're going to go for a little hike." These little things that you just leave open enough so that when you do do it, you're discovering it together.

You're discovering that moment together. You're having that moment of uncertainty and be like, "Oh, is this the right place for the hike? Ooh, this looks a little intense." But then you do it together and you're like, "Wow, we did that. That was crazy. Remember when we did that thing?" And I think I learned that from my parents too.

And my parents were very good about doing that. I don't remember a lot of things concretely from my childhood, but I have vague, more like snapshots. I have so many mental snapshots of family trips, of the car pulled over on the side of the road, the physical map out over the hood of the car while my parents are tracing our route and trying to figure out where the hell we are and where the hell we're going.

I have so many memories of us before smartphones, before the internet, pulling into hotels and knocking on the door and being like, "Hey, do you have space for five at 10 o'clock at night?" My parents did that stuff a lot. Of course, safety was the first priority. When we were younger, there were all these other needs they had catered to, but they still kept that little bit of mystery to travel and that little bit of, "We're going to make it up as we go along.

We're going to improvise a little bit and we're going to do it together. And we're going to have a conversation about, "Ooh, which of these 2 restaurants looks better? What do you think, little Jimmy?" Bring them into it. Bring them into that experience. I think there's ways. I think, yeah, maybe you can't do it like you used to fully flying by the seat of your pants.

But I think in micro moments and through little adjustments and through involving them in your decision-making process as you go, you can still keep that mystery of travel alive. It's funny. As you were talking, I just started thinking about a trip we haven't planned yet, but different ways that we would bring it to life with children.

And our kids are 2 and 2 months. We're not quite old enough to take them on all the adventures. But a few things came to mind. One, in the last few, I don't know, months/year, we've met a number of interesting people that live in our neighborhood going to the park.

Just the park down the street from our house, we meet parents almost every time. So, for some reason, I hadn't thought about it until you were talking. But I feel if you want to meet random strangers, instead of doing it at the bar, where you're sitting having a drink, which might be the solo traveler place of choice, you could also just go to a park.

You probably meet other parents. They probably have other kids your same age. You could make that your place to serendipitously strike up a conversation. So that was one that came to mind. Another thing that I think every person I know that seems to have unlocked travel one level beyond with children does is they all contact their hotel in advance or wherever they're staying and try to find some trusted source of childcare that can, not for the entire trip, but maybe help out one night so the parents can go out and have that kind of interesting, unique adventure of just walking down the street, finding a place to eat, etc.

Another way to do that, and I have some friends with kids who have taken this route as well, is traveling with another family or two families that are friends of yours with kids the same age. Then you either can rotate who's in charge of the kids that night while the others go out to a show or dinner or to meet people or whatever else.

Or you all pull your money together while you're hanging out in France for some childcare that can take care of the kids one of the nights or two of the nights or whatever. And that way you're doing it together and it's a little easier. I know some people who have gone that route too and I think that's a great way to tackle it as well.

The last one that I'm really excited about, and Japan hasn't opened the borders yet, but I'm a big fan. We've been a few times. It's re-experiencing the places that you know a little bit. I've never lived in Japan. I've been three or four times. I wouldn't consider myself an expert, but I do feel like I know it well enough to make it easier to wander the streets and have a serendipitous experience than I would if I'd gone to Uzbekistan, which I've never been to.

And I feel like I would be trying to get my bearings as well as lead the family through the public transportation. So, one thing I'm excited about is just going to places I've been to share that experience and make it a little easier. The first trip with two kids running around a city, probably nice if you'd go to a place you know.

Maybe even test it out locally. Maybe we go to New York for a long weekend because it's like, "I know that city even better." We've already tested it in San Francisco. We take the Caltrain. We actually throw our bikes on the Caltrain, ride the Caltrain up to San Francisco, bike around, and then come back.

So, we're trying to get a feeling for what it's like to adventure in a city. We have our own travel training wheels as new parents that we're trying to take off before we take a big adventure. But also, what a fun thing to see a place that you thought you knew well, to see it anew through the eyes of someone else too, right?

I think that's why people love taking friends to places that they love or whatever. I'm in the middle of planning a bachelor party for friends of mine and I'm really excited that they've chosen New Orleans, which is like a city that I love so much. And now I'm going to be able to see it anew through their eyes, seeing it for the first time and go to all the restaurants that I love and all the bars that I love and do all these things.

And I think that's just like such a fun thing to do. I can imagine with kids too to see them get excited about something that maybe you've taken for granted by the fourth or fifth visit. Similarly, probably why I started podcasts. I love learning these things and then sharing them with people.

The other last one, and I'm fascinated by this broader topic, is when you have a limited time and budget isn't the primary concern, you can hire experiences, right? You could do Airbnb experiences, you can find locals, even if you're staying at a hotel, ask for a cooking class or these kinds of things.

The hidden mystery of fixers in other countries that help engineer experiences and crazy things. I've always been fascinated by finding the most authentic ones versus the most commercial ones. So I'd love your thoughts there. But that's the other thing. It's like if you only have a couple days and you've got a tight schedule, and you want to go have some authentic experience cooking with a local, sometimes you don't have time to just go find the random local until someone invites you to cook in their home and you might just have to hire it.

What are your thoughts on those? Are there better ways to do it? How do you find those interesting people? I've done that route many times. And I try to look as local as possible. So it takes some Googling, it takes some digging. So you're not necessarily going through a Viator or Airbnb experiences or whatever, which some of them are very local, some of them are very small.

But if you just start Googling walking tours of this city, you might find someone who has their own ramshackle operation that they do. And that's the most intimate experience you're going to get. So I think doing some digging until you find something independent on its own. I used to really be...

I don't know, some chip on my shoulder about being a... Exactly what I was talking about, being an experienced traveler. I don't need this stuff or whatever. I used to be pretty against the idea of the walking tour or even the group tour in general. I used to be like, "I don't need that.

I can find my own way." But a lot of cities, especially in Europe, have these free walking tours that leave 3 times a day from the center of town or whatever. And I started doing those when I was traveling in Europe. And I fell in love with them. It was such a great way to just get an overview of a place and get a little bit of background before you start your own explorations.

But also, I found that a lot of the tour guides are not only awesome, but if you talk to them, they're down to hang out beyond just the tour. They're doing the job for the money, of course, paid by the city, but also because they love meeting people and they love showing people where they're from.

Two examples, one in Cadiz in Spain, and one in a city in Germany, where I could tell that the vibe of the tour guides was really good. And so afterwards, I was like, "What are you up to this evening? What are you doing?" And they're like, "Oh, nothing." I was like, "Can I take you to dinner at your favorite restaurant?

You down to hang out?" And next thing you know, I'm having this amazing experience because I've just taken that plunge of being like, "Okay, you gave me the city-sanctioned tour. Now can I buy you a drink and you can give me the other side of things?" I think doing that is a great jumping-off point to meeting people.

I think you'll find that the same people who are working in tourism, who are offering tours, are very interested that you're there and are very enthusiastic about showing you around. So I think that that's a great place to start. In terms of actual companies, I think the more local, the better.

If you can find someone who doesn't work for a major chain or whatever else who's just doing it on their own, in my experience, they give the best tours. I don't think asking the person who took you on a tour to go to a public restaurant and have a conversation is a very risky proposition.

But I do know that we live in this culture where there's constant fear of "What might happen down this alley? What's going on?" You've traveled to so many places. One of the reasons I originally wanted to connect with you was that the New York Times 52 places was my annual travel inspiration.

At least half a dozen places I've been in my life were because that post got me inspired. The fact that you got to go on all but one of the 52 in a year, while that might have been a grueling adventure, it was certainly something that is going to go down as probably one of the more memorable travel experiences of your entire life, I assume.

What are some of the experiences you had on that year that you think are fascinating and worth sharing for people to hear about? Yeah. I did a lot of really incredible things, like surface level incredible things. I saw a total solar eclipse from an astronomical observatory in the deserts of Chile.

I saw... I was like me and 3 other people and the colony of hundreds of king penguins in the Falkland Islands. I saw all these incredible things. But I know it's going to sound cheesy and I can hear the eye rolls from here. But it's true that when I think back of the year, the first images that come to my mind are not all the beautiful things I saw and all the amazing things I ate.

It's people's faces. It's people I met. It's 100% my biggest takeaway from that were the interactions I had with human beings. I think of the woman in Denmark who literally called in sick to work for a week just so she could show me around Alborg. I had dinner with her family and she showed me all her favorite places.

It's the guy in Samarkand, Uzbekistan, who drove me out to see a game of kopkari, which is this incredible sport where you have all these guys on horses playing a game of keep away with a dead goat that's been stuffed with rice. And I was the only tourist there, literally thousands and thousands of local spectators and just me alone there.

Incredible. Again, just from an interaction turning into an experience. It's the family that hosted me in Orcas Island, this family who has a farm. And on my birthday, I was there alone on my birthday. So they said, "We got to celebrate." And so they killed a duck in my honor.

And we prepared and ate an entire duck and had this huge feast with this family. Three generations of this family who has been on this island in Washington State for years and run this farm there. It's like these experiences that really stuck with me and changed the way I think about travel in the future too.

I am looking for those human interactions now when I'm on the road, no matter how small, even in places where I'm going for the nature. I just got back from the Faroe Islands, which is this incredible, beautiful, just naturally stunning part of the world. Just incredibly high dramatic cliffs, so green, just empty stretches of land where you don't see any sign of human habitation.

And I went on these beautiful hikes and saw puffins and all these other seabirds. And it's just really incredible. But one of my favorite experiences was talking to these random group of 20-somethings who had rented out a small house there for the weekend. They'd come from one island to another island.

And next thing you know, they were offering me fermented lamb and whale jerky and 2 different bottles of gin to try the different gins from the Faroe Islands. Just having this really great serendipitous encounter that lasted like 30 minutes because I had to get on a ferry. And that was...

That's what stuck with me. So I don't know. It's just... That's... For me, all my favorite experiences with travel, including with the 52 Places trip, have involved other people. And I use that to inform what I do and how I approach and how I think about the "why" of travel.

It's really influenced the way I think about those things now going forward. Okay. I'm going to take a quick pause because we ended up spending 20 minutes going continent by continent around the world, sharing our favorite places to go. And given the positive feedback I got from splitting out a bonus episode last week, I thought I'd do the same this week.

So if you want to hear Sebastian and I offer up some inspiration for your next trip, come back on Friday and check it out. Also, quick reminder that I'm doing a Q&A episode soon focused on travel, credit card, points, or miles. So please send any questions you have my way.

Chris@allthehacks.com. Okay, back to wrap up the conversation. Any other parting travel advice before we take off? I do want to reiterate that at the end of the day, don't get too attached to the "where". Don't get too attached to a list that you've given yourself. I mean, it's nice to dream and it's nice to imagine.

It's nice to research and think about these places. And sure, maybe it's nice to write it down too. But I think the bucket list, as we've long thought about it, is a thing of the past. And I think we need to start thinking in terms of experiences. I think we need to start thinking in terms of exchange instead of just enrichment.

I think we need to start thinking in terms of just having the best experience. And that can happen in your own backyard. And that can happen in places where not everyone is going. And it can happen at the time of year that not everyone is going. I don't know why we all have to go to Europe in the summer and Mexico in the winter and whatever else.

Death to the bucket list. Death to the high season. All that stuff, I think, is things of the past. And we need to start thinking differently in terms of why we travel and think less about where we travel. I agree. The high season is just sometimes a worse experience.

You get the great weather, but you don't get everything else. And it's twice as expensive. Awesome. Where can people read what you're writing, see what you're seeing, and follow you along all your adventures? Yeah. So these days, I'm writing exclusively for Lonely Planet, where I'm an editor-at-large. So you can find my work there.

If you search my name in Lonely Planet or just go to the website and click around a bit, we have a lot of other great content there. In terms of my personal content, @SebModak, S-E-B-M-O-D-A-K, on Instagram and Twitter, where I often upload my latest stories and share photos and everything else for my travels.

And there's a few other things in the works, potentially a newsletter and some other things that I'm working on. So just follow me on those social medias and you'll hear about them and you'll hear about where I am and where I'm going next. That's awesome. I really appreciate it.

I have a long list that is not a bucket list, but a long list of things to be inspired by. And I'm excited for more travel to come in the future. Thanks for having me on. Hopefully, there's some takeaways here. I know it's not as concrete as some of the people you talk to who are like, "You need to do this for a rental car or this for a credit card or whatever else." It's different to be talking in these esoteric terms.

But I do think it's important and I appreciate you having me on and chatting about it. Thank you so much for being here. Cheers. I really hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for listening. As I mentioned earlier, you can catch Sebastian and I go around the world sharing our favorite countries to travel to in a short bonus episode on Friday.

And if you haven't left a rating or review on the show and Apple Podcasts, I'd really appreciate it. I'm still on a quest to get to 1000 reviews and every single one means so much to me. Thank you so much to everyone who's already written one. If you have any feedback on the show, questions for me, or just want to say hi, I'm Chris@allthehacks.com or you can DM me on social.

See you Friday.