(upbeat music) - Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks, a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel. I'm your host, Chris Hutchins, and if you've been watching this podcast recently on YouTube, you'll have noticed two things. First, I have a new studio setup. I signed up for Kevin Chen's Dream Studio course, which I'll link to in the show notes, because it's fantastic and got so many great tips that ultimately led to what you see today.

It's not quite done, but it's almost there. And I even have a setup for in-person interviews, which you'll see the first version of in a few weeks. But more importantly is number two, you'll see that I have a few skateboards hanging on the wall behind me. That's not just 'cause they look cool.

I have loved skateboarding since I was a kid, and I still skate a bit today. Well, what you probably can't see is that one of those skateboards is signed by none other than Tony Hawk, who I've looked up to for so many years, which is why it is surreal that I'm sitting down with Tony for today's episode.

He is one of the most decorated athletes in the world, having turned pro at 14, and by 16 he was considered the best competitive skateboarder on earth. He was world champion for 12 years in a row, launched a video game franchise with 30 million games sold. He also runs a skate brand, an awesome nonprofit, a clothing brand, and has made hundreds of appearances in movies, magazines, and TV shows.

We're gonna talk about his career, how he's pushed himself to achieve things that so many people thought were impossible, what lessons we can take away from all of that time skateboarding, what he's learned being a parent to four kids, and some of his favorite travel hacks. We also shot this in person at Tony's studio with an awesome three-camera setup, so if you wanna check out the video from this episode, I'll put a link to the YouTube channel in the show notes.

All right, let's jump in right after this. (upbeat music) Tony, welcome to the show. Thank you. Yeah, so before we jump in, what is one thing you think most people just don't get about skateboarding or skateboard culture? The amount of discipline it takes. I think that there's still a stigma that skaters, especially people who make their living from skateboarding or from riding their skateboards are slackers, are stoners, they just get up late, they do what they want, they go trespassing, they go skate, and to get to a certain level of skating, to get to some of the more difficult maneuvers, it takes years of discipline and perseverance, pain, and I think that's lost in the noise of these guys are, they're rebels, they got crazy hairdos, they go against the grain.

It's like those things are also true in a lot of ways, but they do that out of, it's more out of function of where they came from because especially in the early '90s, mid '90s, there were no places to skate, and you had to break into places, you had to hop fences and go to schoolyards or go to plazas to find any type of terrain, and then skaters got labeled as outcasts and outlaws through that.

- Yeah, I remember flipping over Shays' lounges at the pool and trying to grind the rails on, there was nothing to do back then. I know you have a lot of discipline, right? You talk about how important it was. Going back to the early days, was there anything about your upbringing that kind of drove that competition and determination?

- I was just always very determined. That was my mom's best explanation for it because people would say I was a terror and I was a nightmare and I was relentless, and she's like, "He's just very determined." That was her nice way of summarizing my behavior, but I think that I wanted to figure things out and I was gonna do it at all costs.

I wanted to, I mean, I played baseball and basketball, but I didn't thrive, and only because of my size. I was committed to it, and I was doing the work, and I was trying to get in the mix, but I just, I didn't have the strength or the height to really make a difference 'cause I was really small for my age.

And then when I found skating, I still had the same disadvantage, but there was something about it that was much more creative that I enjoyed. It wasn't a team sport. I didn't have to listen to a coach or rely on the team, and there was something about that that spoke to me, but also just the whole culture and how people's attitudes was very do-it-yourself, and they were proactive, and I loved it.

- I know you said it's not a team sport, but there were a lot of other people involved. There were a lot of other skaters growing up. - It wasn't that it was so individualistic that it was like, "I'm just on my own mission." I love the community of it.

I love that you could go to the skate park and be trying to learn something, and suddenly people rally around you because they just wanna see you succeed, and then you have the support, and in that sense, you have a team, but you're not relying on each other for the, I don't know, coordination or anything like that.

It was very much like, "You can do it. "You got it, all right," and then someone else is trying something else, and then you get behind that, and I think that spoke to me a lot, too, because I was really small for my age. I didn't feel like I fit in anywhere.

I was bullied a lot, mostly because of my size, but also just 'cause I was not the cool kid, and then when I found skateboarding, there were a bunch of people like me all trying to find their way, and they all connected through skateboarding. - I look back to my childhood, and I remember those days.

I was not the cool kid. I was the computer nerd and skateboard nerd, and you found our tribe, if you will. I didn't have, I think, the determination you did. I remember all I wanted was to skate at an amazing level, and it just never clicked for me. I found determination in other places later in life, but it was so hard.

You, I've seen, documented, fortunately, a lot of your experiences in life are documented. Against all odds, against all pain, I remember watching the X Games in '99, where you're trying to do your 900 12 times in a row, falling, even this year, trying to kickflip for five, 10 minutes after surgery.

What do you think allows you to go and just keep going? Because I remember sitting in the garage trying to kickflip for hours, and then I just gave up at some point, and I just couldn't keep going. - I think, firstly, that I have convinced myself that whatever it is I'm trying is possible, and so I just have to figure out the right approach to make it so, and that comes in a lot of forms.

But I do feel like, especially if I go to try a new trick, it's like I have every element of this trick. I know how to spin. I know how to flip my board. I have landed in similar fashions. So it's like, how do I combine all those elements to make this one thing work?

And I think I rely on that so much that I'm willing to push through pain and exhaustion to get there. It doesn't always work. Like when you talk about, saw the 900 was 12 tries. Those 12 tries are representative of thousands of tries. I tried that trick for 10 years.

So 12 tries was nothing. (laughing) You know what I mean? - They were just the 12 I got to witness. - You know what I'm saying? But I understand that if people saw that from the outside, they're like, oh, he won't give up. And I was like, yeah, you have no idea how deep that not give up goes, especially for that particular move.

I would try dozens of tries in one session only to walk away with a broken rib. So-- - Heal up and come back and do it again. - Heal up and come back and try again. Actually, after the broken rib, that put me on pause. That one, I had actually stepped away from that trick after getting hurt like that.

And at some point thought, I've given it everything I have, I've fully committed to it, and that's what happens. So maybe it's not in the cards. - At the time, did you think I'm quitting on this endeavor? - I did, yeah. Actually, after I broke my rib, I was like, I had every element, I had every piece of it.

I had the landing, I had everything. And so if it didn't work, it's never gonna work. But in that one instance at the X Games, the reason I even tried it was because it was the best trick event. I had a trick in mind for what I wanted to do that I had made once before.

And so I thought, I'm just gonna try it. That's my best trick. I'm gonna try to get to that trick. And I got to it very early. So I didn't really have anything else planned. And so the announcer, actually, at the time, the announcer that was on site said, oh, let's see one of those 900 attempts.

That's what started it. - Was that part of your being, was being encouraged by others, or was it internal motivation? - No, I mean, I probably would have tried it anyway 'cause it's like, yeah, that would be my next trick that I'd like to accomplish, would be the next best trick for sure.

And so I tried it more to appease the crowd. This is what it looks like. And then somewhere around the third or fourth try, my speed was consistent, my spin was consistent. I started spotting the landing. And in previous attempts, I only ever spotted the landing maybe one out of five tries because the ramps were all pretty terrible back then.

You couldn't rely on the speed or the walls weren't the same. So you're always kind of struggling to adjust. And that ramp was built really well. So I didn't have to struggle with the construction. It was more like I could rely on the speed and the trueness of it.

So after about my third or fourth try, I can see it. I see it every time. I might as well try to make it again. And when I did try to make it, the first time when I tried to put it on the wall, I fell forward, but I didn't fall forward so hard that I got hurt again.

And that was the key. Because it was like, oh, I can adjust the landing and I can try to get more in my back foot. And then I basically shifted my weight mid-spin so that when I landed, I was more on the back foot and I was too far on the back foot.

And then I shot backwards. - Now you just have to readjust. - We call that shooting out. So the first one, I was too top heavy, I fell forward. The second one, the ones I tried to make. And then that next one, I shot out. And it was like, that was the magic moment because it was like, we'll split the difference.

And that's it. And then that's when it worked. - Let's say someone listening is hearing this story, they're like, this guy's not afraid of anything. Are there other sports, other things in life that you have fear from? - Oh, for sure. I surf and I don't like big surf.

People say, well, you ride these giant ramps. Yeah, but if I fall, the giant ramp doesn't crash on top of me and hold me underwater. You know what I mean? My brother, he is a surfer and that's how I got into skateboarding, my older brother. But when I would go surf with him and he has plenty of experience, he'd go out to pretty heavy stuff.

And it's just like, I like riding a big wave, but I don't wanna suffer the consequences of falling on one. - My first experience surfing was a friend of mine took me and he was like, let's just try these on a short board. I had no idea what I was doing.

- Yeah, a great first experience on a short board. - It was a horrible first experience. And then the next one was like Hawaii, long board, super chill. I was like, oh, I could get back into this. - Oh yeah. Well, I'll tell you, I have surfed through my years because my brother wouldn't allow me to exist without at least a foot or a toe in the water, so to speak.

But I have fallen in love with the wave machines, the wave pools, because they are consistent. They're not too scary. And they are like skate parks. Because when you go surfing out in the wild, you never really know what you're gonna get. You get waves and sometimes they're good.

Sometimes they're not good. You've got to figure out kind of how to navigate nature and where the swell is gonna hit. Those things are, the waves are always good. They're always gonna barrel. And so in that sense, you have what I consider a skate park to try to learn tricks and try to learn techniques.

So yeah, I get it. It's not the purest thing. It's not, you're not out in nature. But for me, it's just a controlled environment and it very much feels like skateboarding. - I've been waiting for a time where I'm near one of these wave parks because I don't think there's one near San Francisco, at least close enough.

- L'Amour, Fresno. - Okay. Not go out for a few hours and then come back. - Yeah, yeah. - So you've got this crazy determination with skateboarding. Did you ever figure out or do you know the secret to applying that to something else? I think for my personal life, there are things where I'm like, I'm wildly obsessed with optimizing travel.

But that doesn't mean that I can take that same thing and apply it necessarily to go learn a kickflip. Though you've somewhat inspired me to do that as soon as I get home today. - I think I learned the value of patience and perseverance and that I've transcended to being a parent, to being a business owner, to travel, to pretty much everything.

I learned all that through skating. - And is there a way that you applied that? It's not always natural for someone who's, I could do this as hard, I could try everything and they get to work and they're like, oh, it's hard. Like, how do you rewire your brain to say, oh, well, I know how to do this with skateboarding.

- Yeah, and also trying to reach back to remembering, well, how was I able to figure this out? I think that with parenting, especially, it's so easy to get frustrated and give up. It really is. I get it, it's hard, man. Especially when your kids are relentless and they're difficult and you want to just yell and can't, that's not effective.

And so you've got to figure out how to sort of change your approach and to see what is effective and that is really hard. But I learned that through skating and I've had plenty of kids, so I've had time to figure it out even more so. And I learned the value of persistence and determination and you do see the results eventually, but it's not some wow moment always.

Take your small wins along the way. - I'm early on the parenting journey with one at two and six months, but I've seen some small wins and it's like, whew. - Yeah, and those exponentially get better. And you can see that, oh, well, I planted the seed. I'll tell you what I did with all my kids early on, and it was hard 'cause I was very much, in the early days, kind of a single parent.

I just travel with them and it wasn't a question of like, oh, I got to go, I'm going to have to find carers. We're going. In the beginning, that was super hard, especially when they're toddlers and they don't have patience. We didn't have iPhones or anything like that. I remember I took my son, my oldest son, I took him to Japan when he was four because I had the opportunity to do some skate demos.

No one was paying me to do skate demos at the time. I was struggling to pay bills. And it was like this brand in Osaka said, oh, we want you to come to our skate shop and do two skate exhibitions a day in the skate shop. So they built these little ramps in their skate shop, like moved all their inventory.

And I brought him along and yeah, it was challenging, but it made him appreciate different cultures and travel and things like that. Later on, he's 30 now, he's adventurous. He understands and he embraces other cultures and other ways of life. You know what I mean? It's not like everything's so, ew, it's weird.

It's crazy, this food or the way they do things. He's down for it. - I think in the moment, we just took a trip with two kids, two in six months, and it's brutal, but you think, why are we doing this? And you got to constantly remind yourself, well, there's a reason we're doing this.

We're doing this to expose-- - I think in those years, it's super hard because it's like, they're not gonna remember any of this, but it does set a precedent and it sets a way of functioning with your family that they get used to. And you'll see other kids try to do that.

Eventually, they're gonna want to bring friends along. The friends are like, what, I don't, I can't. Where do we go? What do we do? And your kids will be dialed in. - Even adapting ourselves, getting comfortable with, okay, well, traveling in London with two kids is very different from two single adults.

And so we're trying to get comfortable with that, which was hard, and I think it worked really well. I know you've said skateboarding is a title, your favorite title's dad. Is there anything else you were trying to teach your kids? Give them that determination? Do they have it? Do they see it from you?

- I think they see it from me by example, but I do feel like there is also a nature over nurture where I see them and they're all different. And a couple of them have that relentless determination and they're gonna see it through against all odds, against all injury.

One of them was actually kind of so determined and so fearless that I worried for him when he was young. I used to say, it was my son Keegan, but I used to say like, you don't babysit Keegan, you go on death watch. You're just trying to keep him from hurting himself because he doesn't understand the consequences of all the stuff that he's trying to do.

They're all very different, but I do see that they do have that same sense of commitment. - And was that a conscious thing, or do you think it was just by watching you have it yourself? - I think each of them are different, but they all do see their challenges through.

Some are just a little more daring with their challenges. And I can't say they got that from me. I mean, maybe they saw that I would pose a challenge and then I would see it through for sure. But like I said, there was one, like some of my kids were really, really good skaters, really solid, had the foundational skills, but didn't really wanna push their limits too hard or put themselves in danger.

And then other ones, one especially, was not great at skating early on, didn't wanna put in the hard work to get the foundational skills, but would try anything and get hurt, didn't care. - And were you there pushing or supporting, or what was your kind of role to help them grow and evolve?

- It's hard with my position because of course I'm qualified to give them advice, but because I'm dad, they don't wanna hear it. And I actually have seen it happen time and time again, where I'll tell them to try something or to do it a different way. They don't take my advice 'cause they're determined to do it their way.

One of their friends is like, "Oh, you should put your foot over here more." And they do it and it works. Like, that's what I told you. - I feel like the same lesson applies with spouses as well. - Maybe a little bit, but they do. And honestly, it's fun too 'cause they all skate.

And so when we go travel, I mean, they're all adults now, all of our boys, two are still in college, three are on their own. And then my daughter's the only one still at home. She's 14. So whenever we travel, they're very self-sufficient, but what they wanna do when we go places is to go to the skate parks.

And at some point, he's like, "You guys, can I get a break from skating maybe?" So I ended up going with them as their filmer. - Okay. - That's my role when we travel together. - Videographer. - I am, yes. - Getting the crew together isn't as easy as it used to be.

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- Iceland is amazing because the landscape is so diverse. I can't explain it, but you go there, as soon as you leave the airport, it looks like you're on the moon. And there's just all this moss covering these rocks, and there's the Blue Lagoon. And then as you drive south, it completely changes into almost like a farm setting.

And then it changes again, like another half hour into the drive. And yeah, it can get really cold there, but it's an amazing place. So my wife and I went there a long time ago, almost 15 years ago now, and it felt very untapped. Definitely wasn't a tourist destination.

And now it feels much more like there is tourism. But if you just drive out of the city, you can see some amazing sights. - My general rule is if you go, not when everyone else goes and leave a little bit outside, you can have a very different experience.

- Yeah, we're not afraid to go way off the beaten path, which we do a lot. Other than that, Japan is just so surreal. It feels like a video game. - We just did an episode on Japan, and we were like three hours in, and we covered Tokyo and Kyoto.

- Oh yeah. - We couldn't even get close to comprehending the entire country. And the guy I was talking to had been there 20 times or something, and he's just still like everywhere I go, I see something new. - Oh, every time. We brought our kids when they were all, I brought all of them just before they were teenagers, and they were all mesmerized.

Like it was fascinating. Even Disneyland, still the Magic Kingdom, but it's very different. - Japan's one of the coolest places. Early on, you traveled a lot as a skater before you'd hit the success you've had now. I gotta ask a question I know everyone is thinking because multiple people said I should ask.

Racking up all these miles? 'Cause I know you weren't making a lot in the early days, especially in that kind of mid part of your career. What was that like? You started getting tall, uncomfortable, were you using points, were you trying to get status and upgrades? - Honestly, I didn't fly first class until I was in my 30s.

- Were you optimizing things when you traveled, thinking okay, I'm gonna rack up a bunch of miles? - Yeah, but also I just learned how to travel more efficiently and a little bit lighter, and how to navigate airports and lines and where the best security checkpoint is instead of the one where everyone's just being fed into, just stuff like that.

I guess I learned how to be a better traveler in those days, but I learned the value of frequent flyer miles through those years, especially when I wasn't making very much money, but I still have to travel to go do stuff. I collected a lot of miles. I mean, I was a million miler on United very early on.

And you know what they sent me for that? - Luggage tax. - That was gonna be my guess. It's not a very rewarding experience. Here you go, 10 bucks. What would some of the things if you were telling your favorite travel hacks to how you make your life efficient when you travel, whether it's a secret neck pillow or some crazy eye mask?

- Well, let's see. I just flew home from New York and it was last minute, and so I'm in the bulkhead. It's not some great hack, but if you want to travel with your laptop or anything else, 'cause you have to put your backpack up in the overhead, we're getting into the weeds here, but if you're in the bulkhead, take your laptop out and put it right under your feet so that half of it's kind of under your own seat, and then the other half, you just kind of lightly put your heels on it.

It'll hide it from the flight attendants. And then you have your laptop. You don't have to go up and get it. - Yeah, I love it. - Which is kind of a hassle, right? - Yeah, if you have one of those laptop sleeves, I like to get like a black one 'cause then it just blends in everywhere.

- Yeah, I'm pretty good at just hiding it all together. And then usually like I'll have a little bag, it's usually actually my toiletry kit. And then I just stuff like my headphones and my iPhone cable and everything. - Everything you need. - Everything I need, but just put that on the side of the seat so they don't see that either.

That's my bulkhead hack for you. But as far as other travel, it's not like I carry some big wardrobe or anything, but I do try to keep it down to a carry-on and a backpack if I can at all costs, 'cause I don't want to check bags. I'll tell you the biggest travel hacks for skateboards and people will travel with skateboards, but you can travel with a skateboard and put it in the overhead anywhere in the US.

If you're making a connection, say in Frankfurt or London or even Tokyo, you can't carry your skateboard on the plane through those airports. So I've been told a couple of times, I've actually gotten away with it once and I learned the hard way, like going through London, you're in the terminal, you're connecting, but you know how you have to go through another security checkpoint?

You can't bring your skateboard, so you have to go outside the airport on a connecting flight and check it in. - And probably miss your flight, maybe. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I've actually thrown a skateboard away because of that. - Yeah. - In London, they said, "Oh, you got to check in." I go, "I don't have time." They go, "Well, I don't know what to tell you." And then I put it in the trash can at the security checkpoint.

Okay, done. - Do you think it's a safety risk? It's a weapon or like what? - I assume, yeah. I mean, also Mexico too, surprisingly, you can't carry a skateboard on the airplane in Mexico. So every time we travel with the kids to Mexico, we've got to put them all in plastic bags.

So we're a disaster coming back 'cause we're just a bunch of luggage. That's my advice. I don't know if it's a hack, it's just my advice. Like if you're going to travel through Europe, don't carry your skateboard onto the plane that is connecting. - That could probably apply to other items.

Not that it's the end of the world to replace things like nail clippers. There's some country where you can't bring nail clippers on your plane, 'cause I remember, or if it has that like slide out file thing. And I've definitely gotten dinged on that. So I would say the hack is to look up what are the security requirements for the country you're transiting through or try at all costs to fly direct.

Just to avoid these problems when possible. - Yeah, yeah. I live in San Diego, but I live in North County and used to be able to fly from Carlsbad Airport to LAX. And so basically you could go anywhere from LAX, right? So that was always like the best way to do it.

But many times our Carlsbad flight would be canceled and we just have to literally drive to Carlsbad Airport. Like if your flight's canceled, just keep going North to LAX with the skateboard thing. I remember, so my wife and I usually carry our skateboards when we go places, 'cause we like to skate around cities, you know, just as transportation.

If we're going by ourselves and we were coming back from Brazil, maybe, and we were coming through where you hand them your customs form. I'll never forget this. He grabbed my customs form and he saw my skateboard in his peripheral. And immediately was like, "Go that way to secondary." 'Cause he saw my skateboard.

It was so obvious. I just saw his wheelchair and like, "Oh, he's a problem, he's a skateboarder." And he looked up and he saw my face and he recognized it, but he'd already handed me this red card to go to secondary. And he goes, "Oh, you know what? "Just tell them you're in a hurry." I said, "Oh, is that gonna work for me?

"You're sending me to secondary "where they're gonna go through all my stuff "and I'm gonna tell them I'm in a hurry. "That's probably not the best approach." And then my wife and I got into secondary. They wouldn't let us go to the bathroom. We were very much being interrogated.

- Wow. You've told lots of stories. I'll encourage anyone here to go check out the internet for all the stories of you getting recognized as other people. Is there a good one you don't share? - Yeah, it still happens all the time. It's weird now because obviously, as you would know, that meme kind of took off.

Not the meme, but it's just me telling my story. Like all the stories I tell are absolutely true, 100%. But it started happening so, it would happen pretty frequently and I was sharing it. And at some point people thought I was making it up. So I kind of stopped sharing these incidents because people were just like, "Come on, like really?" But now it's gotten to a point where it's like this vicious cycle where people now want to say it even though they know who I am all the time.

So I would say that happens probably three times a day, that interaction. Like anyone ever tell you, you look like Tony Hawk? Yup, and you're the first today. But then it happens genuinely at least once or twice too. When it happens genuinely, if people were following me around, they wouldn't believe it.

'Cause you know what I mean? Like they hear about it and it's just like, all right, like enough with this whole, I don't even know what you'd call it, mistaken identity thing. So yes, it still happens. It happens as a joke, it happens for real. I think my favorite one as of late was that I was sitting at a gate and this guy was sitting across from me at the gate and he came over, he's a man, he looked just like Tony Hawk.

Said, "Oh yeah, I know, I've heard that." He's like, "That's crazy." And then he went and sat back down and then a group of people came who did recognize me for real and wanted autographs and pictures. And the whole time he's watching me laughing because he's in on the joke that it's not really me.

Do you know what I mean? Like he and I are sharing this inside joke somehow that these people are crazy and they're mistaken. But he just thought it was hilarious. - Did you ever tell him at the end or did he ever? - No, I don't. It's up to them to either decide that or to ask me.

It drives my daughter crazy because a lot of times people will say, "Everybody tell you you look like Tony Hawk." I'm like, "Yeah, that's cool." And they walk away and my daughter's like, "Why didn't you tell him?" I go, "He didn't ask." - So if someone asks, you'll say yeah.

- Of course, yeah. - All right, well I hope whoever was sitting across from me at the airport is listening and they can finally come to terms with the fact that this guy is really you. - No, I think he had way more fun in his mind making fun of people.

- Yeah. - Like that was his thing, so I just let him run with it. - So to round out travel, I'm sure you buy lots of things. Do you play the points game? Do you try to rack up points or cash back on credit cards to travel for free still?

- Yes, I try to focus in on one or two airlines or their partners so that I rack up the most points on them, which is for the most part United and Delta, but also all my credit card purchases go towards miles. So I use those for my team.

So for instance, we have the skater Felipe Nunez from Brazil, you might've seen him. He's a double amputee. He skates like kind of sitting on his board. He's amazing. - It's crazy. I'll find a link to and put it in the show notes. - Truly deserves to be a pro skater.

Like he is incredible and has only gotten better, but it's tricky 'cause he lives in a really small town, a couple hours from Sao Paulo and Curitiba. So for me to get him flights is always really tricky and challenging, but I do it using my points and I can get him his flights all the time.

He has to travel with kind of a handler and it's a whole thing. And I use that for his flights. I use them for my other skaters flights if they need to get somewhere for a skate trip or whatever. And it's been awesome. - Everyone's always surprised. Like no matter how successful you are, no matter how famous or rich or whatever you are, everyone still wants to make sure that when they're spending money on their card, they're getting like the most they can out of their rewards.

- Yeah, and also just with me, sometimes other groups do my travel. If I'm going to an event, I do a lot of speaking gigs, corporate gigs and whatnot and conferences. And so sometimes it's up to them to do the travel and they don't plug in my advantage number or my mileage plus number or whatever.

And it's such a hassle, like it all seems so frivolous, but it's important because it's like, you can go to a different line, you know what I mean? For security or whatever it is. And there's just some efficiency to it. And when you travel as much as I do, those things count for a lot.

- I know someone who's part of their rider for speaking is like, I will book my flights and you will reimburse me because I just don't want-- - That is usually what we do. But every once in a while, it slips through the cracks. - Well, if anyone's listening, if you ever take a flight and you didn't put your number in, you can actually retroactively ask for credit.

So if you ever forget, the airlines do allow you to do that. - It's better to do it at a ticket counter though. - Yes, they can do it faster. - They can do it immediately. That's the other thing is people like, they wield such great power at the ticket counters.

They could literally just put you on a flight to London first class without blinking an eye if they wanted to. - It always amazes me when something happened and they're yelling at this person. And I'm like, you realize the person that holds the keys to whatever your situation will be-- - Is that person who is not responsible for your delay or for your seat mix-up.

- I think just being nice to the person at the desk can pay dividends on-- - Oh, absolutely, yeah. No, I agreed. - I've never scored this kind of mythical, we're just gonna upgrade you for no reason kind of thing. Obviously, if you have status, you can get it.

But everything else like, oh, my flight's gone. They could decide, do I wanna put you on that easy connection or do I wanna just give you a coupon and you can get a hotel and come back tomorrow. And playing that game has been very helpful. And if that line's too long, I always try to call and see if I can get someone faster than a long line.

Like when a flight's canceled and there's 100 people lined up. - Oh, yeah, yeah. So I have all the apps, the flight track, that will sometimes alert me to a problem with my flight before the airline does. So I'm always kind of ahead of the curve with that where it's like, oh, this thing's getting canceled.

I'm gonna go figure this out before everyone else at the gate knows that's what's happening. - And you're like telling them, you're like, the flight's canceled. She's like, what, what? Oh, yes, it is canceled, you're telling them. So one other area that we haven't talked a lot about is around health and fitness.

And people like Laird Hamilton go nuts about everything they do with their regime for exercise, sauna, all this stuff. Skateboarding, I think some people, especially when I was a kid, like didn't even see it as a physical sport. I can assure you, I'm sure you can assure everyone that it is.

How much was kind of diet, exercise, training outside of skating important? Or how has that evolved as you've gotten older? - I think in the early days, I didn't recognize the importance of my diet and training and whatnot, but I was so obsessed with skating that that was all my exercise.

And that was enough because I was skating three to four hours a day, every day, giving it my all. So I think that over time, and also just seeing my peers, I saw a lot of them not take care of themselves, drinking too much, partying, and really kind of losing their skillsets.

And so skating was always such a paramount importance to me that I was never going to let that happen. And I saw it by example, like, oh man, he's not skating good. Oh, that's 'cause he won't stop partying. And so for me, that was sort of the first lesson was not completely, but clean living for the most part.

But as I grew older, then I realized the importance of diet and of trying to stay active when I can't skate. And now, especially at my age and with my current recovery, I've learned that I gotta stay active, even if I can't skate, I gotta. And I need to do so much stuff to help.

I'm recovering from a broken femur from last year. I need to do so many things to help that healing. At one point, it was a full-time job and I had to kind of back off from it. 'Cause I was like, maybe I just need to wait, just give it time instead of trying to do all these other things like hyperbaric chamber and laser treatment and acupuncture and peptides.

And I was going all the way in with all those treatments. And at some point, I actually went the wrong way with my recovery, but only because I couldn't stop skating. So my bone never connected to itself. It never actually became one bone again. So I had it reset two months ago.

- Are there things that you've experimented with, whether it's diet or different kinds of treatment that you think you'll keep in a routine that are lasting or things like breathwork or yoga or any of those things that are part of your routine? - I think swimming helped me with my strength a lot when I wasn't skating.

So I'm gonna lean into that more going forward, including with my skating and just trying to, it's more like not eating to excess and not indulging in sweets and sodas and stuff like that. I still carry a lot of my habits from as a kid. Then I still enjoy, you know, not the healthiest of foods, but I don't go all in on just fast food and just more stuff that's gonna slow me down and try to make a concerted effort to take supplements, to eat greens, less processed foods, stuff like that.

- What kind of supplements? - Well, I take quite a few, but most importantly, I have to take a stat now 'cause I have high cholesterol because of my family history. So I take Qnol CoQ10. It was funny because they reached out to me about possibly doing an endorsement.

Like, "Do you know what this is?" You know, I take it. I literally take it every day. And so I was kind of the perfect one for their campaign. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? So it's stuff like that, but multivitamins too. - Okay. - And a bevy of other ones, just trying to keep all my levels balanced.

- What about the morning routine? Are you early up and get after it? - Yeah, well, we still have one at home. I gotta make sure my daughter is up and getting ready by 7 a.m. So I'm usually up by 6.30. That's not crazy early, but sometimes it's six.

And that's kind of my time to try to go through my communications, emails, and whatnot. Because as the day starts and as, like, she goes to school, I come here, this is my office, this is where my ramp is. Things get crazy through the day. And so it's hard to stay on top of communication.

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I just wanna thank you quick for listening to and supporting the show. Your support is what keeps this show going. To get all of the URLs, codes, deals, and discounts from our partners, you can go to allthehacks.com/deals. So please consider supporting those who support us. I heard you say in a podcast almost five years ago that your kryptonite was time.

I'm curious if in the last few years, you've made any changes, whether it's to time management or anything, that made you more productive. Yeah, I've learned to say no. It's hard, especially when things are growing and things are successful and people are asking for your time and for you to attend events or for you to do interviews and things like that.

And at some point, I thought I don't need to do these things and I don't think that they are necessarily beneficial. I don't know. They just don't seem like they should be so obligatory. I'm honored that people wanna talk to me and that people want me to do stuff, but at some point I needed for my own sanity and also for my own family dynamic to just be available to them and not be on the move all the time or just home on my phone.

I think that's one thing that people don't necessarily recognize is that just because you are home, if your attention is elsewhere, you're not really home. I think it's something that when you have young kids, you start to realize, wow, the number of times I'm just a little bit distracted because they run off and you're like, whoa, I was distracted.

They're no longer interested. Or they're trying to show you something and you're like, uh-huh, yep, yep, uh-huh, uh-huh. And you think that that's good enough, but they see that, that can affect them. - In some ways, it might've been much easier to be a parent before all of the distraction that we have today.

- Right, yeah. - In other ways, I think it was way harder. - Yeah, so I was very young. I was 24 when my first son was born and that was, there were no DVRs. We were still using VHS and he would wake up super early and sometimes before Sesame Street was on the air.

You know what I mean? - Yeah, you're like, what do we do? - Yeah, what do we, yeah, let's read a book or do something. You learn to entertain the old-fashioned way. Storytelling. (laughing) - Find us on flights now. It's like you're on a flight, you're on Southwest. There's no TVs, there's no, you're sitting there and you're like, it's amazing how kids are like, I wanna run around and you're like, well, you can't run around.

It's like, I wanna read a book. Okay, five minutes in, I don't wanna read a book anymore. So I think flights in that kind of toddler age are really tough. - Tell you a hack for toddlers, since you do have young ones and this is gonna be weird, but it worked for me a couple of times.

My son was prone to being carsick sometimes and on planes too. Sometimes we would be walking through a terminal or something and then he would just barf. And I learned that it's very easy to remove your shoe, remove one sock, use that as a rag and just throw the sock away and deal with just wearing one sock the rest of your trip or your day to save from having to try to go some massive cleanup effort.

- The sock burp cloth. - Sock burp cloth, yeah. I've done it a few times. - The last thing we didn't really talk on was around money. So early on in your career, you were making six figures in high school. I'm trying to comprehend that. Most people in high school are making maybe a couple bucks on a side gig.

What was the relationship with money like back then? - Well, it was all a big surprise 'cause it wasn't like you got into skateboarding to be rich or famous. No one had become rich or famous. No one made money doing it. You just did it 'cause you loved it.

And all of a sudden there was this fame and there was this money and I was in my late teens. I'd say I started making pretty good money around 16, 17. And it was like, oh, this is awesome. I'm gonna take all my friends to Hawaii. I'm going to Sharper Image and buying all the gear.

And at some point my dad gave me the best advice. He said, I really think you should put some of that money away. I was like, why? As if it's just gonna keep raining down on me. And he said, well, you just don't know if this is gonna last.

'Cause he really wanted me to go to college. And he's like, if you're gonna do this, you should really save from what you're making here. So when I was 17, he co-signed a mortgage. I had the income to qualify, but I literally was not old enough to sign the paperwork by myself.

So he co-signed on a house for me. So I lived in my own place as a senior in high school. As if I was in college. Parents weren't there. So. No. And then I had. All the high school parties. I had one roommate that was also at the same high school.

We had two older roommates that just had jobs, but were young enough to be taking advantage of the situation. You know, when you're in high school, whoever's friends are out of town, that's where the party is. Whoever's friends' parents were out of town, that's the house where the party is, right?

My parents were never in town. So my house was always where the party was. And it was very challenging to stay focused on school when I'm already making more than my teachers. And everyone's coming over to hang out. And then I'm supposed to get up early and drive to high school.

But I did, mostly because of how important my parents, how much they valued education. My mom was a teacher at a junior college at the time. And so I knew they'd be really disappointed if I just left. - So finishing high school was like a very. - Well, yeah, it was important, yeah.

- And then did you keep saving or was the house the kind of saving grace? - The house was saving grace. Well, I got in kind of over my head. So a few years later, I bought another property. I built a bunch of big ramps on it. It was a four acre lot here in kind of East San Diego.

And at some point, not long after that, my income started dropping by half, by half every month, because it was all royalty based. It was all based on items or products with my name on it. Skating was taking a downturn in popularity. So suddenly skating is not popular. My name's not popular.

My products aren't selling. And I'm stuck with two mortgages, my first child on the way. And it was like, how did I get here? This is crazy. So I sold my house for basically, I'd taken equity out of it to start a skate company, which seems like not the smartest move at a time when your income's dropping, but I wanted to stay in the industry.

And I wanted to, at that point, have more control over a brand, because up to then I had been skating for the same sponsor for 10 years. And their popularity was waning, so was skateboarding. And I thought, well, I could probably just start a brand and be behind the scenes, because it seems like now my career as a skater is starting to fall apart.

I could at the very least be effective as sort of a team manager, curator, marketer. And so I took the equity out of my house, started Birdhouse Skateboards, sold the house for what I owed on it, then moved back into the house I was living at as a senior in high school.

And for probably three to four years, lived off of Top Ramen, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, Taco Bell, and just made it work. And those were the years when I started to have to travel to make ends meet, like Japan, and bring my son along. You know what I mean?

That's how that all unraveled. - There wasn't childcare at home to help out, because if you're eating Top Ramen, it's tough. So how did that evolve? Now are you much more passionate or interested about money and saving and all of that? - I think I have much more respect for saving money and for making sure everyone's taken care of, especially with our kids.

I want them to all forge their own way, for sure. But at the same time, we want to be able to know that we have a nest egg in case something goes south. So my relationship is just that I have much more reverence and respect for it. And that I also don't take every single opportunity.

That's the reason why I had so many relationships fall apart too, 'cause I just kept chasing the carrot. Even when it was huge. Even when I didn't need to at all. I just kept going. It was like, I couldn't turn it off. And then at some point I realized, I'm missing my kids' formative years, chasing some dream that I've already realized.

- Yeah, I think at a different scale, it's something that we all face. It's like, you have kids and you're like, I can't go to the thing, I can't go to the thing. And I think if you pause and reflect for a moment, you're like, but it's okay. But it's so hard to process.

And FOMO is definitely real, but if there's one thing that your kids can teach you, even when they're really young, it's like, you can miss the thing. Like, it's okay. - Oh yeah, it's okay. And also, if you really devote yourself to that time with your kids, you just see the gleam in their eye.

And you see that they appreciate it. They're not gonna speak it to you. Good luck getting your kids to say thank you, by the way, for anything. But they do appreciate it. And they thrive because of it. But I think it was just that I had gotten so used to the hustle of not being successful and all the time, trying to create something, trying to make something happen, that when it started to happen in droves, how could I let it go?

That seems crazy. That's impossible. Why would I not do that? And at some point I lost myself in it. - Is there something that you wish you'd known or you'd wish someone had told you that could have gotten you out of that earlier? - I don't think so. I think it was all so new and fantastical to me that I don't think I was gonna listen to a voice of reason.

You know what I mean? - And so now you've got plenty of things that could keep you busy. What's the focus now? I mean, you're still skating, or you will probably after you heal. - Now I'm just so thankful to still be in the scene and to be able to bear witness to skateboarding's massive acceptance.

I don't wanna say growth. I mean, it definitely has grown hugely in the last five or 10 years. But just to see it come of age and to be an activity, a sport, a lifestyle that is all inclusive, that is super diverse, that is now an Olympic sport. It's something that transcends boundaries, cultures, economics, people that get together to skate.

They don't care where you're from. They just care how you skate. And it's low cost of entry. And so to see it come this far and to still be considered relevant, that's the greatest joy I have. So what am I doing? I'm doing whatever I can to still be an advocate for skating and to be able to skate myself because that still is the most fun for me.

But kind of whatever comes along. And like I said, I do a lot of speaking gigs now, which I never imagined would be a way of living or a source of income. I say it all the time because when I go to these things, it's just like, look, I never imagined anyone would pay me to skate.

So I certainly never imagined that people would pay me to talk about skateboarding, but here we are. And it's a blast. I love it. - What's the advice to someone who's passionate about a thing that's not necessarily a revenue source for their life right now? - It's what's gonna bring you the most joy.

And it's worth it. If you go to work and your work makes you happy, that's living the dream at any level. And if it's very successful financially, great. That's just sort of gravy, but it's more about your peace of mind. And I think that if there is something that makes you truly happy and maybe you have to do something else to supplement your income, try to balance those things as best you can.

- I've actually turned my position on this in the past few years. I used to say, oh, go follow your passion, find a way to make that your job. But if you have a job that allows you to follow your passion, not as a job, that's okay. - Yeah, that's enough.

- My brother-in-law went pro golfing and then hated it because it was his job. And then got a job and just golfs on the weekend and loves it. And so I think for some people, even pursuing it to some extent can actually take away. I don't know if there was ever a moment in your career where it was like skating to win competitions and to win trophies was just too much and it took away the fun.

- Yeah, for sure. Especially in the late eighties, I became a machine and it was very cyclical. And it was like, all right, there's an event coming up next weekend. I've got to learn a couple of new tricks for the event because the judges saw my current roster of tricks.

So I got to hide it from them and then unleash it in the finals. But it became so formulaic that it really was not fun. And at some point I just pulled away and stepped away from it altogether because skating had become a job and it wasn't fun for me.

And when I did pull away, I got very creative with my skating and I was able to really learn a lot of different techniques and a lot of stuff that I wanted to pursue, even though I wasn't making a living at it at the time. I mean, I kind of was, I still had signature skateboards and whatnot, but when you're not in those years, if you were not competing actively, you were not going to get coverage.

You were not going to get career opportunities, but I was willing to let those go to just at least be happy with it. And so it gave me this sort of new energy to come back to competing and with a different approach that was less careful and it was more risky.

That was it. I came at it with a sense of, I'm going to just try everything. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I don't care if my competitive record is so pristine anymore. I'd rather just do this and take the chances and have fun doing it. And if it works, then it's going to work awesomely.

The downside to that was that when I did come back to competing, it was when skateboarding was starting to take a downturn. So I came back with this renewed energy and I was winning a lot of big events. And all of a sudden it was like, what happened? Where's the crowd?

Where's the contest? - Where's the prize money? - You guys like, turn the machines back on. I thought this was cool. It was kind of like the wrong place at the right time. - But you probably wouldn't have had the career you had after that had that not happened.

- No, no. Because in those dead years, I was skating more than ever, having fun doing it. You know, learning new tricks and learning new techniques. It was just that I wasn't doing it in front of crowds 'cause the crowds weren't there anymore. - I think I'm very fortunate.

And I think you did the same with your podcast. Like when you start a podcast, if you can start it not needing to be your job and your business, you could do whatever you want with it. When I started it, I never thought I'd be going over countries as episodes.

And then I was like, you know what? I'm going to London. I want to talk to someone who knows everything about London. Let's make an episode about London. And then we do it on Japan. So I think when you really start to do what you're passionate about in your work, it sometimes creates an even better experience.

And people love these episodes. And I never had an idea. - Oh yeah. My co-host, Jason Ellis and I, we have a lot of experience, obviously skating, but just life experience. He had a totally different path than I did. And when we have guests, especially with non-skating guests, we relate to them in different ways that people would not expect, but in a very parallel way.

For instance, we had two wrestlers on, that's our most recent guest, and Darby Allen and Jamie Hader. And people were like, why would you have them on? And then when we started to talk about our experiences and our injuries, we were right in line and we were bouncing off of each other.

And it was a really great conversation. It was fascinating. Say what you will about wrestling or that it's made up or whatever. Those guys take as much abuse as skateboarders. - I listened to this episode. It was wild. I don't think I've gotten that behind the scenes look at wrestling.

It hasn't been a passion of mine, but it was super fascinating. And you don't have to say who, but I know there's some cool guests coming down the pike. So if anyone's listening and wants to check it out. - We have an insane roster coming up and I feel like now we're starting to hit our stride and we've been doing it a couple of years.

So you're right, it wasn't something that we needed, but we enjoy doing it. And we did find that we had something unique to offer. We found a groove, we found an audience. It was just that we weren't doing all the right things with the algorithms and the promotions. And so now we have a group, Amalka, that is taking the reins on that and they've been doing a great job.

So we get to focus more on the content. - Podcast is great, I enjoy it, especially 'cause I have my childhood skate dreams still somewhere buried in my head. For anyone else listening, where else do you want to send them to keep on top of whatever you're doing? - Well, I'm out there on all the social media as Tony Hawk, luckily.

I think I had to buy one of someone squatted my name on some platform early on. So I'm Tony Hawk on all the social media and that's where I put all of my content out there. We have the Hawk versus Wolf podcast. I think if anything, my energy also is directed towards the skate park project, which is my foundation for public skate parks in underserved areas.

We have been doing it over 20 years now. We've helped to fund over a thousand skate parks in the US alone. We have a couple of international projects as well. I think that's my proudest work because when I was growing up skating, the skate park was my salvation. I was an outcast kid, I was bullied at school, but I found my tribe and my community at the skate park.

And I was very lucky that the park that I grew up skating at was one of the last ones in the US in the mid eighties. There were only a handful. And that was never lost on me how lucky I was to have that place to go and to have that crew.

So when I was in a position to advocate and to possibly affect change, that's what I focused in on was public skate parks. - I grew up kind of at the born in the early eighties. I was in that kind of dearth of lack of skate parks. - Lack of skate parks, yeah.

- And I think my community was like the guy that lived across the street that had a skateboard. That was it, it was the two of us. - And also that these kids that they find something they love, they maybe live in an area where there's not much opportunity.

They find something they love and they're mostly told that they can't do it 'cause they're trespassing or they're a nuisance. - They put things to prevent you from doing it. - Right, or they're a nuisance. This kid has finally found something that speaks to them. And now you're discouraging them from that.

What are you doing to your community? So to have those parks, the kids feel like they matter and that they can find their crew. I think the best part about the foundations, we try to empower groups that are already doing it themselves or trying to do it themselves. Like they're trying to fundraise or they're going to city council meetings or they're petitioning.

All those things matter. And it feels like you're in an uphill battle that will never end, especially with the red tape and the bureaucracy and city councils. But we give them the roadmap to do it the right way. And when we do give them our endorsement and possibly funding, that's usually the tipping point for them to get it approved officially.

And so for us, it's empowering those go-getters that were trying to do it in the first place. - I love it. So you should all definitely check out the podcast and the socials, but definitely check out the skate park project. I wish that it was around 30 something years ago for me.

It would have been awesome. Any parting advice for anyone who's looks at you and says, gosh, when I'm in my fifties, I want to be doing the thing I love and performing at that level. - Wow, what can I say? My approach always has been to keep improving what I do.

And at my age, that's shifted a bit from trying to do these big spins and these big stunts to more subtle techniques, but something that I feel like is progressive. And I'm talking about just in terms of physical skating, but also just my approach to life is like to not wrestle my accolades, to keep trying to improve what I do, keep evolving, listen to other input and glean what you can from them, glean what is appropriate to what you do.

I'm fascinated listening to people who are passionate about what they do, whether they're successful or not, just to hear what drives them. And a lot of times you can translate that to what you do. - Is there a favorite way you consume these stories, podcasts you like, books you like?

- For these days, it's actually doing my own podcast 'cause I like to invite people that I think are fascinating and really get into their story. Like we interviewed this girl who's a, she's the most decorated Paralympian now. Her name's Oksana Masters, who grew up in a Ukrainian orphanage after Chernobyl and who was disfigured from Chernobyl, who came to the US, she got adopted.

And her story is incredible. - And so inspiring. I already knew a little bit of it, but to invite her on our podcast and hear all of it was fascinating. - I have not listened to that. So that's my homework for the flight home today. Thank you so much for being here or for having me here.

- Oh yeah, thanks, this is my home away from home. - I love it. (upbeat music) Wow, that episode was so much fun and I really hope you guys enjoyed it. Big thanks to Tony for hosting me in his space and to all of you for listening. I'll be doing another Q&A episode soon.

So please send over your questions, but also any awesome wins you have to share or hacks you've learned and put to use in your own life. And finally, I am about 100 ratings shy of hitting my goal from last year of getting to a thousand reviews on Apple Podcasts.

So if you haven't left one yet, I would greatly appreciate it. It would mean so much to me. All right, that's it for this week. See you next week. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)