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You heard about it here. Again, that's longangle.com. Happy new year and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks, a show about upgrading your life, money and travel all while spending less and saving more. I'm your host, Chris Hutchins, and I am excited to kick the new year off talking about setting and achieving audacious goals in our lives.

And who better to join me for that than Ben Nimpton. If you don't recognize Ben by name, you might recognize the MTV show he created back in 2006, The Buried Life, where he and three childhood friends created the world's greatest bucket list, borrowed a rickety old RV and crisscrossed North America chasing their dreams.

And while there were a few standard items on the list, like grow a mustache and learn to meditate, they had some ambitious goals like playing basketball with Obama and having a beer with Prince Harry. And every time they accomplished one of these dreams, they helped a complete stranger cross something off their list, which led them to reunite a father and son after 17 years and surprise a young girl with a much needed bionic arm.

Ben is also the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, What Do You Want to Do Before You Die? Moving unexpected and inspiring answers to life's most important question. And now his second book, The Bucket List Journal is out this month. It's a tool designed to help you create and achieve your goals.

Throughout his journey, Ben has had a mission to inspire others to live a life of fulfillment. I couldn't be more excited for this conversation. So without further ado, I hope you enjoy this chat with Ben Nempton. Ben, thank you for being here. Thanks, Chris. Yeah, it's super exciting to be here.

Yeah. So I last looked at the list that you created more than a decade ago. It's not done. Are you still trying to check everything off? Yeah. So I think we've done out of that original list, 96 of 100. Number 100 is Go to Space. So that would be a good one to get off the list.

You know, we started Buried Life back in 2006. It originally was a documentary and we just started as a summer project to make a documentary to show our friends and, but the adventure just continued to unravel. So Make a Movie is still on the list. We haven't finished the documentary.

I think Go to Space could be the last piece of that puzzle and then put out the documentary. But the thing is, I think the first, that original 100 is almost ceremonial at this point because I've added so many more things to the list. And I think that as you grow your hopes and dreams and your goals grow with you.

And so it's important to continue to add to your list to make sure it reflects what you truly want to do and who you truly are. So, but yeah, the original 100, 96 of 100 have been completed. That's impressive. What was the kind of hardest or most impressive thing on the list?

Uh, so you had mentioned play basketball with President Obama. So that definitely comes to mind because when, when we originally wrote that down, it almost was a joke. It was the most impossible thing we could think of doing. I mean, growing up in Victoria, BC, which is an island in Canada, the idea of playing basketball with the president was just, it was, it was almost laughable.

Like it was so ambitious and it took about three years, but we found ourselves at the White House on the basketball course and President Obama actually surprised us on the basketball course. We didn't think he was in town. It, we got about a hundred no's to get to the point where we got invited to do a tour of the White House and he walked on the court and we were completely taken aback.

I mean, it was, it was such a journey to get there, but that was, I think the most meaningful because I just remember writing it down and thinking, this is never going to happen. And, and then I just saw it with my own eyes and I was like, wow, I guess these things that you think are impossible can actually happen.

Yeah. I mean, I, I similarly track a bucket list and my impossible thing was meet the president. I didn't go as far as to have a goal of doing something. I think that makes it even harder, but a friend of mine worked in the White House and it turns out when the Obama or any president is in town, the people who drive all the vans and the motorcade are just local volunteers.

And so I got, uh, they put me on the list and I was a volunteer one day. My wife and I each drove a van and at the end, you know, Obama came out and thanked everyone and said hi and shook hands and took photos. And so I, I agree that that's a wild one.

If, if I had played basketball, it would have blown my mind. So that's awesome. Is there something on the list that nobody ever really asked about? Cause it's not as crazy as playing basketball with the president, but you wish people asked you about, cause it's such a great story, but one of the things that we, that we had always wanted to do was this kind of, as I laugh about thinking back, but it was, it was ask out the girl of your dreams.

And, uh, at the time, this is right when Transformers had come out. And so Megan Fox was the girl that I was like, that is the, the woman that I need to ask. And we had no way to get to her, but we knew that the premiere of Transformers was happening in Los Angeles.

And so we basically went to the premiere. I dressed up as a reporter and I put on a red jacket and I had a microphone and I didn't, the microphone was tucked into my pocket and I had a friend who brought a camera and we were able to get our hands on a, on a pass to get into the, like past the first line of security.

We went up to the press table and we sort of like, basically we're able to talk our way into sort of a junior press pass and went onto the red carpet and found a place. So the red carpet, there's like all of these spots for different press. So there was one spot where no one was standing and so they hadn't shown up yet or they weren't going to show up.

And I just stood there hoping that that outlet wasn't going to show up. And then the red carpet started and all this, the, the, the stars started to come down and then Megan Fox came down and I was like, okay, this is my, this is my moment. And I was getting more and more nervous as she started to approach, like so nervous.

And she got in front of me and I said, my name's Ben. It's nice to meet you. I have my microphone that's tucked into my pocket. And she says, oh, that's, it's nice to meet you. My, my first boyfriend's name was Ben. And then I started to get very flustered.

And as I was about to ask her out, her PR, her publicist was like, okay, that's enough and took her away. And I totally blew my opportunity. I didn't get to ask her out. And so it was a massive fail, but we did make up for it the next year because my friend Duncan, his dream was to ask out Taylor Swift at the time.

And he was able to do that and he didn't blow it. And he actually ended up going out on a date with her. So it was a, it was a big fail, but we learned from it. And, uh, and ultimately it's probably for the best that we didn't go on a date and she's happy now.

Yeah. Are there, are there items? It sounds like, you know, because you had four people, are there things that other people checked off that you've since gone and said, wow, I, I kind of wanted to do that too and gone and done, or were some of these always going to be one of your friends items and, and it wasn't really even a passion for you.

Yeah. Some of the things on the list were, I didn't want to do that. One of the things was to ride a bull and my friend, Dave was really wanted to do that and I just didn't want to. And so we found a place that finally would let him get on a bull and, and he was able to ride it.

Most of the list items that we had were things that we all wanted to do together. But if some person was really passionate about something, then we would try and make that happen for that person. And then when we helped other people, you know, that was the thing that they wanted to do.

And so we just did whatever we could to try and make that happen. And sometimes we, we shared that with them and sometimes that was completely their, their thing, but always there was sort of the emotional tie of being able to share that experience with them. And, and so we were able to sort of stay in touch with those people afterwards because you kind of build this bond with them because you share this, this moment, whether it was like helping someone overcome a fear or helping them reconnect with someone that they hadn't seen in a long time or doing something for someone that they love.

So that was always the stuff that stuck with us. I think the most throughout the, the journey was those moments when we were able to step into someone else's life and help them. Yeah. So we'll move on from the list. If you want to read the rest of it, I'll put a link in the show notes, but I kind of want to move on to this whole concept of a list.

Do you think most people have a bucket list, even if it's not written down that they use to guide their life? Well, I think that we all probably like have heard about a bucket list from the film or just because at this point everyone knows what it is, but I kind of look at it a little bit differently.

I think most people think about adventure and travel when they think about a bucket list like skydive, travel to Europe, these kinds of exciting things that you want to do in your life. And I think that those are important to have on your list, but I do think that that's only one category of your life.

And the way I look at a list is it's a list of all the things that are going to bring you joy and happiness in your life. And those can be big and those can be small, but the reality is, is that life always gets in the way. And, and these things that we want to do that are going to like, let's call them our personal goals and passions, which is they tend to get pushed because life gets in the way.

And that's actually what this whole project really is named after is a poem written in 1852 called the buried life, which my friend was assigned to an English class when we were coming up with this concept. And this poem was actually speaking about the exact same feeling that we were feeling then, which was that we had all these things that we want to do, but we hadn't done them because they were buried.

And you have moments when you're inspired to go after those things, but ultimately they get buried by the day to day. So we thought, well, we're not the first people to feel like this. Why don't we borrow this name, the buried life and try to unbury these dreams. And that's what started this whole journey for us.

And so it's kind of human nature to push your personal passions and ambitions and goals because they don't have deadlines and everything else in our life has deadlines. So something typically pops up that's more important. So we almost eternally push these personal goals. And most people at the end of their life, they don't regret the things they did.

They regret the things they didn't do because of this idea that we continually push these things. So a bucket list just really one helps you define what's important to you. And typically we don't spend a lot of time thinking about that. So it forces you to slow down and actually put that on paper, but it also builds accountability.

And it's a very small step when you write something down, but it is important because it makes these things that are intangible, it makes them real. So now you have a reminder that those goals exist. And then there's many things that you can do to start to increase your chances of actually accomplishing those things.

But I think just at its basic form, a bucket list is just a reminder of those things that are important to you because it's just a device. And if you don't have some sort of device to remind yourself, they get buried. And so anything you can do to create accountability and to remind yourself of those things that are going to bring you true joy and happiness in all categories of your life, it's important to figure out ways to do that because it's just a muscle that we all need to build in my mind as we live in this world that I feel like continues to pull you away from your true self.

And your bucket list is just a reflection of that true self. So it sort of keeps you on track. It's like that that true north that is guiding you in the direction that you want to go so that you can stay true to the things that you know are really important to you.

Yeah, I love that. You mentioned the kind of regrets people have at the end of their lives. And I know you've kind of dug into a little bit of the research or the data about what those are. Could you talk a little bit more about what you've learned and kind of what's the takeaway from how people feel kind of towards the end of their lives?

Yeah. So there's this really interesting study by a psychologist named Tom Gilovich, and he's he's also a professor at Cornell. But effectively, he asked people at the end of their life, what's your number one regret? People on their deathbed. And he found that 76% of people that he asked had the exact same answer, which was not living my ideal self.

So living a life that I thought other people expected of me or that other people wanted for me. And when I heard that, I was just I was kind of shocked. I was like, well, 76% that is an overwhelming majority of the population that will live their entire life, reach their deathbed and on their deathbed, look back and reflect on their life and basically think, damn it.

I completely overlooked the things that I wanted to do. I didn't take time for those small things that were important to me. And so if that is three quarters of the population, why is that happening? Why why is the majority feeling like that at the end of life? I can't imagine feeling like that on my deathbed, that I lived this life for other people or that what other people expected of me.

And so as I started to dig into why this is the case and also what are simple ways to not end up like that, that's kind of became my sort of purpose of why I speak and and why I'm doing what I'm doing is to sort of bring down that percentage by some small fraction so that more people, at least when they get to the end of their life, they think, you know what, at least I tried to do those things.

And if it didn't work, it didn't work. But then I don't have the regret of not even trying to go after those those things that were important to me. And what do you think are kind of the various reasons that people end up in that circumstance? Well, it's so it's interesting.

So through his research, he found three things. Number one, there's no deadlines, which I spoke to previously, right? There's we have deadlines for all these other parts of our lives. But with our personal goals, there's no deadlines. That's number one. The second is that usually when it comes to these goals, we wait to feel inspired to go after them.

But the inspiration just doesn't hit. Like I have a guitar. It's sitting in the corner. I'm still waiting to feel inspired to pick it up and play like you have to create your own inspiration by taking action, which is kind of a cool idea that you're the architect of your own inspiration just through by movement, right, just by creating your own momentum.

You can start to create your own inspiration. And the third, which Mr. Gilovich found to be the biggest, is is fear. So it's either the fear of what other people think or the fear of failure, which you hear about fear and you know about these fears. And I think that when you start to look at these fears more closely and identify what a real feel fears and what are some of more of the imagined fears, you can start to kind of see that some of these fears actually aren't real threats or not least the threats that you think they are.

And so it's the fact there's no deadlines. It's the fact that there's you wait to feel inspired. And it's the fact that there's this fear of what other people think and the fear of failure. And so I think there are ways that you can start to move through those three barriers.

And that's effectively what the Bucket List Journal is designed to do. It's designed to first identify what are those things that are important to you and in all 10 categories of your life, not just the adventure and the travel. And then it's OK. Now, you know that these are the things that are important.

You've taken the time to think about them. These are the things that you want to prioritize. These are the things that can't get buried by the day to day. Now, let's move through those barriers of creating accountability so that we can move towards those things. Let's create inspiration through action and let's move through those those two fears.

And so that's kind of what the journal is designed to do. Yeah, I mean, I wish everyone listening had a copy of it right now. Definitely go order it. It's a beautiful journal. I want to first understand the categories. How did you break down everything you could want to do in your life into 10 things?

Was that a hard process? How did it go about and kind of how did you end up with the 10 you have? Yeah, so people have looked at this before. And if you Google 12 categories of life, I took them from different versions of people coming up with these 12 categories.

And I looked at when you think about your goals, how how would your goals fall into these categories? And and and that's how I came up with the 10. And so there will be things that I think you could find outside of these 10 categories. And I would love to hear what those are if you find them.

And I would also encourage you just to basically add them to your to your list. But effectively, they're travel and adventure, which we know physical health. So what are your physical goals? And this could be anything from specifically an achievement, run a marathon, or it could be getting back to something that you used to love that you don't do anymore, like tennis.

Or it could be more about like screen time and that type of things that affect you physically. And then there's material goals. It's OK to have material goals, I think, on your bucket list. Like you have a dream watch, you have a dream car, do you want to get a place on the beach to hang out with your grandkids or your kids?

You know, those types of things I think should be on your list. And then there's your creative goals, which I think creativity is is sort of an overlooked pillar of wellness. If you think about like how you got to this podcast and starting this podcast, I feel like you're so good at this because this is almost what you're meant to do.

When you are doing your podcast, this is almost like a creative expression that you get to fulfill. And so it's it's really being really true to yourself and letting this piece out of you. And when you're creative, that's what you're doing, whether it's playing an instrument or it's doing art or it's doing other type of creative expression.

You're you're tapping into this truest core element of who you are and letting that out. So I think it's therapeutic. I think it's important to allow yourself to express those creative urges, even if they don't lead to anything that has anything to do with what you do professionally. You know, things like start to write that book, take painting classes, take improv classes, start that YouTube channel, all those things that you dream of doing that fulfill that creative bucket are important on your list.

Yeah, I did an episode with Chase Jarvis maybe a month or two ago talking about creativity. And it was funny because I didn't really realize that I was as creative as I might be. And I also didn't realize that flexing the kind of muscles that you use to create things, create art, create music, are similar muscles that you can use to create your life and create purpose.

And so we talked a lot about that, how to get through creative blocks. Check out that episode if you're interested. But this was one that prior to that conversation, when I was looking through the book, I was like, I probably would have looked at this and moved on. And now I feel like it's one of the categories I have more things in.

I really struggled with material stuff. I feel like that really wasn't necessarily for me. And then physical health was a big one. I was like, I need to go back and beat the PR that I set on my Peloton like two years ago. My goal is to get back in pre-COVID shape, which feels like far away.

Yeah, I just wanted to flag that because I think creativity is something we overlook a lot of times and don't realize that it's probably a deeper part of our life than we think. I agree. I think you touched on it, too. I think it can really lead to purpose.

And I think when you think about and you hear about finding your purpose, I think it's a very overwhelming question. And I think that it's also very loaded. And I don't think it needs to be as loaded when you think about what's my purpose, how do I find my purpose?

Well, one way you can find your purpose is by following things that excite you and also following your creativity. And so if you think about, again, just to use example of you creating this podcast, so that was probably out of this creative urge or this urge of following this thing, this idea that really excited you.

And maybe you didn't expect it to lead you to where you are right now or have the success that it's having right now. But that's usually how it goes. Usually you'll start to do something out of the love of it and it might evolve into something that creates a whole life of its own.

And so that's what happened with our documentary. And the bucket list was this was just supposed to be a two week road trip in 2006 and it just continued to unravel. And we leaned into that momentum and we leaned into that excitement and that creativity of making a film and making videos.

And that's what led us to the television show. And so I think that you can come back to, OK, what are these creative urges that I have? If they don't go anywhere, it's totally fine. I just want to express myself and do these things because they're fun. And hey, maybe they turn into something, maybe they don't.

But at the very least, I get to actually express that part of myself. And I think that it always will lead to good things if at the very least it energizes you for the rest of your sort of life, quote unquote. I mean, like it energizes you to do the things that you have to do professionally and the other things that you have to do, which really is like what this whole idea is about, is like you want to take care of yourself so that you can serve other people.

You want to do these things on your list because when you do the things that you love, you're more alive, you have more energy, then you can deploy that energy in all aspects of your life. And so that's sort of the narrative that you want to think about when you're thinking about your personal goals.

It's not selfish to have these goals, it's actually service. So the fifth is professional. So any goals that you have in your life professionally, you take some time, you think about those, whether that's specifically a job that you want to have or it's in your role. Is it a promotion?

Is it becoming a better leader? Is it starting a side hustle? Those types of things. Then you have your financial goals, which is the sixth category of life. So anything money related. This could be investment benchmarks, income goals, or feeling financially secure or free or leaving things behind. Then you have the seventh category, which is intellectual.

So anything you have for your brain, what do you want to learn? So this could be reading, learning a new skill and anything that would fall under that feeding your brain. What are your intellectual goals? The eighth category, arguably the most important, is your mental health. So how do you want to increase your emotional, spiritual well-being or just take care of of you?

And this is this is so important, obviously, especially now with the during the pandemic with so many people struggling with with with many different things. I think that now more than ever, it's important to take care of our mental health and also be open about talking about the struggles that we're going through.

Make sure that we ask for help, make sure that we have a support system around us. And for someone who has struggled with mental health, for me, and we can talk about this at any time, but basically the buried life for me started because I had a depression, went through depression when I was in university and it forced me to look at a lot of things.

And so this category is extremely important for me. And also, I think it's important for anybody to look at. And so, again, let's just moving through the last two categories. The ninth is relationships. This category, all about the people that you love, right? Your partner, your friends, your family.

One of the regrets of the dying is not staying in touch with old friends. So this is an important category to invest in the relationships that are important to you. And I do see them as as investments because you have to invest the time in those relationships that mean a lot to you in order to nourish them and and have those types of relationships throughout your life.

So you want to identify what those relationships are. And maybe it's prioritizing romantic love, or maybe it's prioritizing friendships or making sure that you prioritize a trip with your friends once a year, date night twice a week with your spouse, those types of things. And the last is the giving category.

So this is just how do you want to make an impact? How do you want to give? These could be in small interactions with people throughout the day, or it could be helping someone else that you care about pursue their dream. It could be more time on a cause that means something to you.

It could be some sort of trip that you take to make an impact or just every day focusing on recycling every piece of plastic you use or doing something that that gives back on a small scale. It seems like with every business you get to a certain size and the cracks start to emerge.

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Yeah, I love it. You mentioned you got the idea from the 12 categories. Were there two categories that you got rid of, or did you merge them, or how did you get from 12 to 10? Yeah, I merged them together. There was a spiritual category, so I kind of rolled that into some of the mental health and some of the relationships.

And there was one other category that I can't remember now, but I kind of put that into one of the other ones. I did the 10 as a round number, too. Yeah, yeah. I thought 10 was good. It was a good exercise to run through this. And I almost wish there were somewhere I was like, "This is all for me," and there was somewhere I was sitting down with my wife being like, "What do you want to add in here?" I'm a big fan of sharing your bucket list with people.

And so the one I tracked prior to your book was in a Google Sheet, and I had a few friends in there. It's like, "Oh, wow, we all have the same one. Maybe we should go do this thing together." So I'm a big fan of sharing, which I know is one of your accountability things.

But before we get there, I'd just love to hear a little bit of your kind of do's and don'ts, kind of rules and tips to kind of create a list that's both, I guess, exciting. I feel like one of the things I learned when I was looking online for inspiration for my original bucket list was that they were all just kind of like, "Oh, see the Eiffel Tower," or it didn't feel like they really pushed you as hard as they could.

And so I really wanted a list that pushed me in every aspect. And I think some of the things in the book reminded me that I wasn't pushing in every way. But kind of what do you tell people to do when they start creating a list to really push themselves and kind of then after that, accomplish things?

I think one trick that I've kind of think about, and this has been consistent since the beginning, because the question, "What do you want to do before you die?" was the question that we asked ourselves to make our list. And now it's a question that we ask strangers as we traveled to see what they wanted to do and ultimately see if we could help them.

But this idea of reminding yourself that you're going to die one day, that your time is limited, puts things in perspective. And so by really confronting and digesting that mortality, you're able to sometimes get clarity on what's important to you, not what's important to other people or what you think other people think is important to you.

So sometimes I think, "What would I regret not doing if I died tomorrow?" And it's not so much about what's the biggest goal, because I think there really is no rule with a bucket list. The only rule is that it's important to you. So when you think about what would you regret not doing if you died tomorrow, that could be something like, "Ah, I really wish I would have taken that trip with my dad," or "I really wish that I would have told someone how I really felt," or "I really wish that I would have just started to work and finish that book because that's what I want to leave behind." And so I think that it's important to, if you have a big dream, to let that out.

So as you said, like you realize, "Oh, I wasn't pushing myself. There's all these dreams that I had that were audacious and I want to go after them," those need to come out. But I don't want you to think that a bigger dream is better than a smaller dream, because really what this is is it's more about being true to yourself.

And so it's about identifying what's for you so that when you end your life, you look back and think, "Yeah, you know what? I feel really good about what I tried to do and what I accomplished and what I went after, and I don't have any regrets." So I answered your question in a bit of a different way, but I think that from that is just an important baseline when you're thinking about your list.

And then once you start to write your list, I do think there are a couple of things that are important. Number one, I think you want to attach a timeline or a deadline, because if you think about one of the problems we have, I'll go back to no deadlines.

So there's no accountability. We have so many structures of accountability in our professional lives. That's what drives us forward, right? We have leaders checking in on us. We have a salary to keep us accountable. We don't want to look bad, right? So we stay accountable. And in our personal lives, and with these, we'll call them like these bucket list goals, we don't have those systems of accountability.

So how can we create those in our personal life? Well, you can create your own deadlines. You can, so that means attaching a timeline to your goal. You can create your own rewards so that if you achieve it, you get something that you love, or if you achieve a step towards that goal, you can achieve it, that thing that you love.

As you said, you have a list with your partner that is so important because all of a sudden you feel a bit accountable to them because you've, you have the shared goal or you've, you have friends that are, that are also in this document. So you feel accountable. The more you tell people, the more you feel accountable to the people that you've shared that with.

So, so you're 77% more likely to achieve your goal if you have someone checking in with you down the line, or you send regular updates to that person. So how can you get an accountability buddy? You have your partner, you may have your friends. So it's so important to share your goals and also to create this system where they're checking in on you or you're sending updates.

You could be in a group chat. It could be, you could do it any way that you like, but the basic idea is to create this accountability. So I think that as you write your list, you want to think about that. And you also want to write your list in a way that you know when you've achieved it.

So you don't want to say something like prioritize love or get in shape because you don't know when you've achieved that. You want to say something like for love, like maybe it's go on two dates per week or for get in shape, it's run five miles twice per week or, and it's not travel more, it's visit three new countries this year.

It's not be healthier. It's X, Y, Z. So be specific so that you've achieved your goal, be affirmative. You know, you can say, I will do this instead of try and also attach the deadline, attach the reward and focus on actions more than intentions. So I think those are some of the things to think about when you're actually penning your dreams down.

Yeah. I mean, the thing that I thought was great about the book was when I started writing down some of my things, it wasn't just a list for everyone who doesn't have a copy yet at the beginning of the book, it's how do you create this? What is your list?

But then there's a page for each item and it really forces you to break down how to achieve this. And something I did earlier was I decided that every month I have to do something memorable and I had a list of everything every month and I started planning it out and it's not just having items, it's deciding when you're going to do them and how that pushed me to do that.

So I really appreciate that you didn't just make a book that was 20 pages and had the list, but it also forces you to find ways to be accountable, to find ways to set timing because I think that is ultimately, like you said, just writing it down, I think is 50% chance you'll get it, but the accountability and the deadlines helps, you know, tremendously beyond that.

Totally. And what you just mentioned. So this, the idea of, of making a plan is that is very important. So there's this, there's a study called Mindset Theory from New York University that effectively talks about by spending time identifying both the means as well as the, or how you're going to act, you heighten your chances of successfully attaining that goal.

So all of these things start to effectively create that accountability. And so not all of these things are going to work for everyone, but if you can start to try to see which of these things stick and work for you in your life, I think you're going to increase your chances of actually pursuing those things.

And as you said, the, the first step is, is, is writing it down. Yeah. And, and I love how earlier you pushed back on me and said, it doesn't all have to be these wild goals. I know a lot of the things that in your list for the show were, but some of them worked and I, I'd never actually grown any facial hair and over COVID, I finally decided to give it a try after, after trying once and failing to have the most inappropriate mustache you can have, because it just looked like the kind of guy who drives a van around the playground.

And that was a small thing. And so I like how you pushed back and said, what are some goals that you can do that might be smaller? But I think when it comes to the big things, everyone has really, really kind of crazy things that they might want to accomplish in their life.

And I know you've given, you know, quite a few talks on ways that people can kind of take things that are impossible and make them possible. And I'm curious if you could imagine someone's reading your book, wrote down some things that they think are impossible. They get to the page where they're trying to articulate how they can actually do that.

What advice do you have for someone who's trying to make something that's really audacious, kind of become a reality? I think so. One is to look at that biggest thing that stops us, which is fear. Uh, so the, you know, the fear of what other people think or fear of failure, which by the way, these are fears that we all feel.

These are, these are like taxes you have to pay to do great things. And you start to realize that these things don't go away, but you get comfortable with that discomfort of moving through those fears. So again, like I just not to beat a dead horse, but to come back to the podcast that you started, like I'm sure there were fears.

What are people going to think? What if I start and it fails? What are they, what are they going to think? What I don't do this in my job. And now I'm going to start doing this other thing. Is that makes sense? Like all of these fears probably started to bubble up, but you can, you can sort of unpack both of those, the fear of what other people think I read that this dates back to when we were hunter gatherers.

And if we went out for a hunt and we came back without a kill, we were at risk of getting kicked out of the tribe. If we did something that was wrong in the tribe, we got sort of, we're at risk of getting kicked out. And that kind of meant certain death because we lived as in the tribe.

This sort of gets passed on. We all have this fear of what other people think. And the truth is now that when it comes to the fear of what other people think, people just aren't thinking about you as much as you think they are, right? They're busy, worried about living their own life.

And they're also worried about what other people are thinking about them all the time. So it's, it's almost more of, of, of a made up fear because I found that people are also more supportive and accommodating than, than you think they might be. So again, if your basic needs are met, sometimes this fear of what other people think is, is more of a made up fear.

The fear of failure is, is hard to get around. But I think that one way to look at it is if you're afraid to go after your goal or you're waiting for the right time, you failed because you didn't achieve your goal. So at least when you try and you fail, what you learn from that really outweighs any potential hit to, to your reputation.

And so I think as you start to sort of peel back the onion and look at what are the real risks, I have this fear, but what, what am I at risk of, of losing? And if that is something that you can't live without, then that's something to take pause and be like, okay, should I, should I do this or should I not do this?

Do, if this doesn't work, am I going to be at a place where I'm in a very difficult spot financially, or is this going to put me in a spot where I can't have my basic needs met, but if it's, if it's something outside of that, and it's more of an, an ego thing, or it's more, what will people think, or it's going to be wrapped up in that, then I think it's something to, to take a look at, and that's just kind of writing down what are the real risks when you look at, or when you think about the fears.

Yeah, the fear thing's a big piece. I think another thing that I've done personally is, and use this podcast as example, trying to, you know, reach out to some guests that, you know, maybe you wouldn't want to come on a show back when it didn't exist, was just try to break it down into smaller steps.

So it's okay, well, I want to get X person on the show. How do I do that? Well, who do I know that knows that person? Or what other podcasts have they been on? And, and what other guests have been on those podcasts? And do I know any of those people?

And, you know, just trying to think about, can I at least make a list of people who could be guests? So the thing that's really helped me is, you know, if the goal is to land, you know, an A-list, you know, guest on your podcast, that sounds crazy. But if you start to break it down and slowly work your way towards it, that's been really helpful for me.

I'm not sure if there are other things in your kind of steps to make the impossible possible, but that was one for me. Yeah. I mean, that's, I think that's where most people stop is that first step. And you, you don't need to know the full road to completion.

Like you don't need to know how you're going to get that guest ultimately on your podcast. All you need to know is the first step. And then you can figure out the second step after the first step. So the first step was, okay, let's write a list of all the people that may have some sort of connection to this person.

And you take that first step. And once you do that, you say, okay, well then I'm going to reach out to some of these people that are, I have a better relationship with than others. And I'm going to ask them there. And then all of a sudden you've created this momentum and you're all of a sudden on the road to achieving your goal.

And that is this creation of inspiration that I was talking about before. So by taking that first step, you create that, that movement. And, and a lot of people stop at that, at that first step, because it's so overwhelming to think, how am I going to achieve this big goal?

I'm paralyzed, right? And so just by identifying what's the easiest thing that you can do. So first you look at the fears. Okay. What's at risk here. And then you just start to take action, small steps. What's the first thing I can think of? Write that down. Let's take that step.

And you, there's this other study from the frontiers in psychology, which talks about this psychological momentum that's created when you get these sequential runs of success, and so that's just the momentum that you start to create when you, when you march towards your goal. Even if you hit a roadblock, you you're, you're building this momentum.

So again, it's like I looking at the fears, it's starting to take the first step. And the other thing is it's a lot of it is old, just old fashioned persistence. If I don't, you can't underestimate the power of persistence when you're going after some of these goals. And I found that sometimes you don't know what's possible until you're doing it.

So you just are just continuing to be creative in your persistence. You're continuing to be authentic to yourself and authentic when you're pursuing these things and asking for help. And, and I think that you made a good point when you made a list of people that you could ask is, is asking people for help when you're going after your goals, it's okay to ask people if they can help you along the way, because I found that people step up in unexpected ways when you reach out and ask for help.

So it's again, if you, if you're able to do these things and also start to build this accountability alongside your, your journey towards the goal, the accountability is like the fuel that fuels you and, and all of these other things are hopefully going to start to move you in the right direction.

And as you, as you, as you go towards that bigger goal, is there an example from your list, whether it's the list from the show or your own list of something that was really big that you had to kind of break down, try, make progress, have persistence, go overcome fear, or kind of as many of those things as possible that we could walk through.

Yeah. Well, let's take the president Obama's example, because we had mentioned at the beginning of the podcast. So no clue how to even start. We're Canadian, no connections to Washington. So only thing we could think of is just drive to Washington, start asking people on the street. Do you know anybody that's connected to this president?

And obviously that didn't get us very far. But we found that we could connect contact politicians offices through their websites. And so we would send hundreds of emails to anyone. We could find a publicly listed email for say, we're in DC. We're trying to play basketball with the president to prove that anyone can do anything.

And again, most people ignored us, but there were a few lower level officials that agreed to meet with us. And we'd meet with them. And we found that we could sometimes convince them in the meeting to convince their boss to meet with us. So they would either send an email, they'd make a call or the boss would be there in the other room, they'd bring them in, and so we were slowly moving up the ladder and we got all the way up to the secretary of transportation of the United States.

He's like very confused about what this meeting was about. But after we explained what we were doing, he actually picked up the phone while we were in the meeting. And he called the white house and he said, you know, I'm meeting with these guys. I don't know how they got my office, but I assure you they will cause no embarrassment to the president.

Hangs up. And so we're very excited after that meeting. And I get an email right away from the white house. And this is an official rejection. They're basically like, well, thank you for your inquiry, but it is not possible to arrange a basketball game with the president. Sincerely, the white house office of appointments and scheduling.

And so we're like, okay, this is a hard note in writing, but we had a great intro. I feel like at that point, you've got the secretary of transportation making a warm intro and there's a no. How did you you didn't give up, though? No, because at that point we had learned that there was these secret basketball games that happened with the president and there was a gatekeeper and he was his personal aide.

So I don't know if you remember, there's this gentleman named Reggie Love, who is the personal aide of the president. He had played basketball for Duke University and he was always on the court with President Obama. He set up all these basketball games and we heard his via text to a select few people.

And so we thought, OK, that's who we need to get a hold of. And we found what we thought might be his email and we started sending him emails challenging him and the president to a basketball game. So we say, like, you know, dear Reggie, you and the president versus us tonight, 730 at the YMCA, be there.

And we'd show up at 730 with our basketball, like dressed in our basketball gear, right? 730, there's no president there. We're like, OK, next day, dear Mr. Love, we're sorry we missed yesterday. Same time tonight, 730, show up again. For a week, we did this until finally we're like, OK, we've done everything we can think of.

We actually picketed outside the White House with signs. We left voicemails at the White House. You can call and leave a voicemail at the White House. We did. We didn't hear back. No one would take our meetings. We heard that Reggie Love worked out at the YMCA at 5 a.m.

We'd go at 5 a.m. We didn't see him. We're like, we accept our defeat. We move on. Three weeks later, I get a blocked phone call coming into my phone. And all I hear is, what's this I hear about? You wanted to play basketball against the president and I.

And it was the personal aide, Reggie Love. And so I explained to him. Yeah. And he said, you know what? I like this. I think I can make this happen. I need to run it by the press team. So give me two weeks. But I feel good about this.

I'll call you back. Calls me back in two weeks. He's like, talk with the press team. It's not going to happen. And we're like, well, devastated. And at this point, he's like, guys, listen, I'm sorry. There's nothing I can do. This is out of my hands. If you're ever back in D.C., please let me know.

Maybe I can give you a tour of the White House. And so we thought, well, this guy feels bad for us, like this kind of kind. But we don't actually even think he necessarily means it. But cut to three months later, we're in D.C. We send him an email.

He gets back to us and he says, guys, if you have time tomorrow, swing by the White House. And so we're like, OK, if we have time. Yes, we have time. We'll make time. Yeah. And so and then he gives us a personal tour of the White House. He walks us to the West Wing, shows us the Oval Office.

We rented suits from a high school prom rental store because he didn't know what to wear. We go to the basketball courts in the backyard of the White House where there used to be tennis courts. And there's now basketball courts, presidential seal on each hoop. And we're shooting around.

And all of a sudden. We just hear President Obama stroll on the court, say, hey, guys, I heard you in town. Thought the least I could do is shoot a basket with you. And we had no idea he was in town. We had no idea who's going to show up.

And we were completely floored. And we spent 15, 20 minutes with him shooting around. There's a White House photographer there taking photos. And it was a it was definitely a moment where my whole belief system about what was possible shifted. Because I was when we wrote that down, I was there was no doubt in my mind that this would never happen.

It was just we put it down kind of because it was the most ambitious, the craziest thing we could think of. And it was like made us laugh. And here we were with the president. And now from that point forward, I was like, wow, I guess you can really do anything.

It's like my it shifted what I thought was was possible. So after all of those no's, it was just. That that being persistent, continuing to just do that next thing that was in front of you, not knowing how you're going to achieve it, but having this belief that somehow it can happen.

We were accountable because we had each other to drive us forward. We were accountable because at that point, we were actually also filming the show. So that kept us accountable because we needed to create something. But ultimately, the show, it was a failure. The episode went out and it was a we didn't do it.

It was it was it was a complete failure. But we just felt like we're going to continue to try and make it happen no matter what. And so that was definitely the most no's I've ever experienced. And I realized that, you know what, you can get one no, five no's, a hundred no's.

Sometimes you're really just looking for one yes. And all we were looking for was that one yes. And finally, we got the one yes. Yeah, that's amazing. And I guess I guess maybe it would be easier if you waited 10 years and he's no longer president, but you made it happen.

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So please consider supporting those who support us. You mentioned that you now, you know, this list is an evolving thing. So forget that there were a hundred and there's four left. Now you have other things. Before we go, I want to hear what are some of the new things on your list that you're excited about doing?

I would love to cross off that number 100, go to space. And obviously that's more and more achievable now. I've always, some of the travel ones I still have that I really love to do is go to India, go to Africa, do a safari, go to South Africa and Cape Town.

And I think that the things that I would continue to pursue professionally is I've sort of found this, I want to just bring more people into that minority of people that end their life not regretting those things that they didn't do. So I want to continue to kind of spread this idea and this message.

So I think that could be any number of things, but it's been cool to like be re-inspired by this idea after that initial road trip in 2006. And one of the things that I've kind of realized is that the thing that like really changed my life, if I think about it, is this, I made this conscious decision after I got depressed in university.

And by the way, like I was, I'd never experienced anything like this, right? I was like on the national rugby team, I had an academic scholarship, my first year university, I put so much pressure on myself to succeed that I just burnt out and I got depressed. I dropped out of school, I got dropped from the national rugby team, I became a shut-in in my parents' house.

And for someone who was very A-type personality, this is a complete 180. I was totally terrified. I had no idea what was going on, why I was feeling the way I was feeling. And one of the things that I did, along with many other things, including therapy, including understanding what I needed to be healthy, taking pressure off of myself, also realizing that I was living the life that I thought I was supposed to be living, not necessarily the things that I wanted to do, which is where the bucket list came from, was I decided to try and only surround myself with people that were inspiring, people that were going to give me energy.

And there was this kid in the neighborhood that I grew up in that was making movies, and I thought that was so cool. And so I thought, "That's someone who I should hang out with." And so I called him up, his name's Johnny, and I said, "Johnny, you make movies, I want to make a movie, let's make a movie." And that's where The Buried Life came from.

And so that's one small decision, completely changed everything for me, and I think that's something that we all have control over to some extent. But I think there are people in our lives that drain us of energy, and sometimes they're difficult to - they are a part of your life.

Sometimes it's family, sometimes it's other people that you can't totally move away from, but you can be aware that they're going to take that energy from you, but you do have the choice to lean into relationships that are giving you energy. And I think that what that does is it not only inspires you because you are inspired by what they're doing, and because you're friends with them or you know them, it makes you think that you have the ability to do something similar.

I'm sure people have said to you, "Chris, your podcast, honestly, it's inspired me to do this," or "It's made me think that I can do that," right? Because by doing what you love, you inspire other people to do what they love. And in the beginning, I thought a bucket list was to prioritize my personal goals, but then I saw people around the world starting to go after their bucket list just because we were going after ours.

And this created this ripple effect. And I think that if more people did what they love, it would have this ripple effect around the world. And so, if you surround yourself with people that are inspiring you, and you lean into those relationships to meet their friends, you are subconsciously raising your level of thinking.

Because almost through osmosis, you start to believe that you can do bigger things because of these people that are around you. And so, I think it's such a powerful thing. And I mean, just from my experience, that's something that I think about has really changed my life. And I think that that sets your foundation, so then you can move towards those goals that are so important to you that ultimately are going to inspire other people to do the thing that they want to do.

And so, that ripple effect is very powerful as well. Yeah, I mean, it couldn't be more true, right? You inspired me to go read the book, come up with a list, invite you on the show, talk about it. I'm sure people listening to this will do the same. And get the book and can continue to push that narrative.

And I think it's awesome. I think there's nothing more exciting than trying to live a fulfilling life. And it's super scary, especially if that fulfilling life is not in line with the career you have now. And it's not in line with the friends and the family and the relationships you have now.

But I appreciate you pushing people to know that it's possible and inspiring them. And I appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you, man. Yeah, it's been super exciting, too. You know, I saw the first podcast that you did, and even when you were on Kevin's podcast starting it.

And so, to see the momentum that you've created, to see the rise. Just anytime I see that, it just makes me feel excited. Because it's proof that you can create whatever you want to create. And so, I think that it's a powerful but intangible thing. And when you think about, even in a world where everything feels like it's sort of out of control.

And where you don't necessarily have the power as one person to make an impact. You can make an impact because of the ripple effect. So, and it's not just big achievements that create this impact. Every day, you have the ability, because every action has a reaction, to create a positive ripple effect.

So, whether that's like any gesture of gratitude or kindness. Or any helping hand you have with strangers. You don't know the impact that creates. But it does create this positive, invisible ripple. And so, it's empowering. Because then you're able to think, "Wow, I can actually make an impact just by the actions that I take." And you don't know how that one compliment is going to affect that stranger.

It could save their life. It really could. And it's not being hyperbolic. You have the ability to do that. And so, I think that that's empowering when you think about, "Okay, I'm going to impact people by not only going after the things that I love in my bucket list and my dreams." "I'm going to also have the ability to impact people just through my day-to-day interactions." "Through this invisible ripple effect." And that's something that can keep you going.

Yeah, this has been awesome. I've already encouraged everyone multiple times to check out the book. I know you've got a site at bennimpton.com. What else are you up to? What else should people check out? So, I would love to hear what you think about the book if you get the book.

And the best way to get a hold of me probably is through Instagram, which is just my name @bennimpton. If you send me a message there, I'll get back to you. But if you want to see the Bucket List Journal, the URL is bucketlistjournal.co. And I would encourage you to write your list with your friend, write your list with your spouse or your family, and keep the journal forever.

I think you can pass this on to your kids and then it'd be a cool thing to show them what your dreams are and what you accomplish. And the reason why you want to keep your list in one place, it doesn't have to be in this journal, but somewhere, is because you want to go back to your list and you want to update it.

Because as I said in the beginning of the podcast, your list grows over time. And what happens is you want to take stuff off that you don't want to do anymore. You want to add new things. But you also want to look back and look at the things that you wrote on your list and realize that, "Wow, I wrote that.

I thought that was impossible. And look, it's done." So that's proof that you can achieve those things. And Chris, if you wrote down on your list, start a podcast that will hit the top 10 or whatever, you probably would have thought it was impossible. And now you look back and you're like, "Wow, I guess I did it." And the next challenge is not going to be as daunting as I may have thought.

Yeah. I only wish your book was around a while ago, because I feel like my bucket list that I created with friends was so much more focused on Category 1 of travel and adventure that there were a few spatterings of maybe buy a house or create a family tree, but a lot of the other stuff wasn't there and I wasn't thinking that way.

But now I can. Thank you so much for being here. All right. Maybe it's the vibe of a new year, but I am seriously so excited to refresh my bucket list and see what kinds of crazy things I can start doing. I hope you all enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much for listening.

If you haven't already checked out the All The Hacks newsletter, you definitely should. I've been spending a lot of time on each email and I've been getting some great feedback from all of you. You can subscribe and read past emails at allthehacks.com/email. Finally, if you have any questions or want to say hi, I'm Chris at allthehacks.com.

Thank you so much to our sponsor BlockFi for this episode. That's it for this week. See you next week. I want to tell you about another podcast I love that goes deep on all things money. That means everything from money hacks to wealth building to early retirement. It's called The Personal Finance Podcast, and it's much more about building generational wealth and spending your money on the things you value than it is about clipping coupons to save a dollar.

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