As we mentioned in the previous podcast, we recently hosted a pastors conference here in the Twin Cities in February. It was about the supernatural in ministry, and Pastor John, what were some of your conference takeaways? The whole conference was about, brothers, we are not professionals, and the nub of it came out when Jason Meier said in his message, "There is no professional fear and trembling." And he was talking about his taking up the mantle of the pastor at Bethlehem, and Paul said he came to the church in Corinth with much fear and trembling, and he said it was of the essence of faith, because Philippians 2 says we're supposed to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, and yet when you stop and think about it, that would be something that no professional seminar would give you ten steps to fear and trembling.

So that's the gist of it. The things we're called to do as pastors are done in ways that rely upon the supernatural and awaken in us affections that are essential for doing the ministry, like fear and trembling, humility, love, kindness, and these are things that are just not considered professional in our day.

They're not evil, viewed by evil as professionals. I'm just so eager that the pastors not give way to their self-identity as a professional, because all of the essential things in the ministry are of such a nature that we wouldn't describe them as professional. The pursuit of the power of the Holy Spirit is the essence of the matter, and not being professional.

We want to be the kind of ministers who rely not upon ourselves and our expertise and our excellence and our skills, but upon the Holy Spirit. And what came out in the conference was that that's done in very ordinary ways. I think my talk was an example of that, where you meditate on the Word of God by trying to say things in a most effective and compelling way.

That's a very natural process in one sense, and yet if you do it with humble, childlike prayerfulness, crying out to God that he would bring to your mind the things that need to be said, then you can see what a switch it takes from professionalism. And the extraordinary came out in both Mac Stiles' talk and in Topik Kalioso's talk, and Mac gave this illustration.

This is just classic, non--you can't plan or professionalize this. He said, "A Muslim woman in a shower heard a voice in her head, 'I have redeemed you.'" She didn't have a clue what that meant as a Muslim. She went to her imam, and he said, "Well, that was probably the Prophet Jesus.

Only the Prophet Jesus talks that way." Well, meanwhile, up in Europe--I think it was Amsterdam--her sister is approached by a woman who says she had a strong sense, or I think it was a dream, in which she was supposed to get on a plane and fly to see her sister down in this Muslim country, and she had already bought her ticket for her.

She flies down there, knocks on the door, and she's a Christian, and she says, "I don't know why I'm here," and the woman says, "Well, I know why you're here," and she shares Christ with her, she becomes a Christian, and that woman who had that impression in the shower is now in Max Stiles' church there in Dubai.

So now that's the sort of thing that God's doing all over the world in terms of extraordinary works of the Spirit. So both the extraordinary and the ordinary show us that there's a way to pursue ministry that is different from what we ordinarily think is professional. Thank you, Pastor John, and thank you for listening to this podcast.

Send your questions to us via email at askpastorjohn@desiringgod.org. Please include your first name in your hometown. Find thousands of other free resources from John Piper online at desiringgod.org. I'm your host, Tony Rehnke. Thanks for listening.